Author Topic: WP Old School 2 - SPOILER Thread  (Read 338533 times)

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Offline Plan 9

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Re: WP Old School 2 - SPOILER Thread
« Reply #70 on: October 12, 2010, 11:32:18 PM »
Yep. This is precisely what I love so much about the vintage Wackys. It's a subtlety that's surprising hard to create imo and one I wish there was more of in the newer series. Maybe we'll see more of this in the Old School series? I for one would love it.
The ANS art is the best stuff since Saunders. But the problem with today's Wacky art is that none of the artists have 30+ years of steady practice painting pulp covers. In modern Wacky art the mechanical aspects such as bottles and cans tend to look great. But characters and organic forms look stiff and uninteresting. Saunders characters look alive and in many cases dramatically lit. He was gifted but his Wacky Pack style can be replicated with practice.

wackyone

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Re: WP Old School 2 - SPOILER Thread
« Reply #71 on: October 13, 2010, 12:57:57 AM »
The ANS art is the best stuff since Saunders. But the problem with today's Wacky art is that none of the artists have 30+ years of steady practice painting pulp covers. In modern Wacky art the mechanical aspects such as bottles and cans tend to look great. But characters and organic forms look stiff and uninteresting. Saunders characters look alive and in many cases dramatically lit. He was gifted but his Wacky Pack style can be replicated with practice.

good point,,your word choice "replicated" speaks volumes,but Saunders work is so remarkable in many aspects it will always stand out and above any other work of it's type.All famous parody and comic book style art from the 70's just has a look and feel that will never be truly copied again.
I guess that's why i asked Dave about a possible paper/stock change as well,every little aspect of the "good old days" seems important when it comes to replicating the 70's of our youth  8)

Offline Ducko

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Re: WP Old School 2 - SPOILER Thread
« Reply #72 on: October 13, 2010, 10:06:44 PM »
Excellent insights on the Saunders artwork.


I liked the idea of the paper stock in Old School 1, but it didn't quite do it for me. I don't think the waxy-flexibility of the vintage Wackys was replicated at all, so you end up with just... paper.

I'd almost prefer a blank-backed ANS type sticker. One thing I like about them is the clarity of the ink and the stiffness of the cards (more durable).

Offline Dr Popper

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Re: WP Old School 2 - SPOILER Thread
« Reply #73 on: October 14, 2010, 06:13:24 AM »
good point,,your word choice "replicated" speaks volumes,but Saunders work is so remarkable in many aspects it will always stand out and above any other work of it's type.All famous parody and comic book style art from the 70's just has a look and feel that will never be truly copied again.
I guess that's why i asked Dave about a possible paper/stock change as well,every little aspect of the "good old days" seems important when it comes to replicating the 70's of our youth  8)


Sometimes I think that if it wasn't for Norm Saunders we probably wouldn't be here today on this forum or even doing this hobby.  I really believe the success of them back in the early 70's was mainly due to his art.
Dr Popper (aka Rob Palmer)

Offline DrSushi

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Re: WP Old School 2 - SPOILER Thread
« Reply #74 on: October 14, 2010, 06:50:39 AM »
Sometimes I think that if it wasn't for Norm Saunders we probably wouldn't be here today on this forum or even doing this hobby.  I really believe the success of them back in the early 70's was mainly due to his art.
Hear, hear!

Offline sco(o)t

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Re: WP Old School 2 - SPOILER Thread
« Reply #75 on: October 14, 2010, 08:29:56 AM »
Sometimes I think that if it wasn't for Norm Saunders we probably wouldn't be here today on this forum or even doing this hobby.  I really believe the success of them back in the early 70's was mainly due to his art.

Ya know, I agree to a large part but I think Wacky Packages success is also based on other factors coming together at the right time, as is often the case with pop culture "hits". As others have mentioned before, the climate was right for the "put it to the man" attitude that Wackies brought. Young teens were getting more involved in politics, environmental issues, etc. so were more open to parody of cultural icons. Other similarly directed publications such as MAD and NATIONAL LAMPOON, were hitting their prime about the same time. Wackies had that edge... just a  hint of taboo...  of being something your parents might not approve of.
And it was delivered in the trading card/sticker format very popular at the time. 

I remember at 11 or 12 years old thinking they were kinda treating me as more of an adult than most other items targeted at me. They gave me credit for some smarts and a sense of humor just slightly higher than,
say, a HUCKLEBERRY HOUND cartoon did. I felt I got the inside joke, at least most of the time.

I will definitely agree that the prime reason Wackies transcended being a "pet rock" kind of pop culture hit of 3 months in duration, is because of the quality of the artwork and wit associated with them. This is what gave them their staying power over the years. We all know people who love the original series and lost interest with later new releases because the new titles might not have been on equal footing. We also all know people who are new to the hobby because they are drawn to those original works and titles.

Bare with me, but I often compare Wacky Packages to the television show M*A*S*H*. It was common to make a hit movie/book into a television show. Often, they didn't last but a season or two. They would exhaust the potential rather shortly, and that was even when they were half-way decent to start with. M*A*S*H* should have been no different and should have died after 2 or 3 seasons, tops. But it had that added qualities of good writing, acting. and characters people enjoyed. These aspects came together and allowed it to meet with success well beyond what it's life span should have been, by all other accounts.  In like fashion, Wackies were blessed with great artwork and humor. 

I collect all kinds of other parody/spoof items, but Wackies stand heads above almost all others because of these qualities. This is what Norm infused from the start and gave them its great start. We are lucky such a talent was involved and was allowed to breath the life into it. As some proof of this, we can look at other products that tried to share in the success of Wacky Packages such as Crazy Covers, Daffy Patches, Chug-a-Cans, etc. Each of these other sets may have some specific titles that are wittier, or have a better joke, but most suffer from lesser artistic efforts.

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Offline Kook

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Re: WP Old School 2 - SPOILER Thread
« Reply #76 on: October 14, 2010, 10:20:54 AM »
Sometimes I think that if it wasn't for Norm Saunders we probably wouldn't be here today on this forum or even doing this hobby.  I really believe the success of them back in the early 70's was mainly due to his art.

I'm in total agreement with this. I was about 8 or 9 when I first started collecting these. I only recognized about 1/2 the products spoofed when they first came out. I thought the gags for the titles I did recognize were funny, but, know the product or not, the artwork is what captivated me. I never got tired of looking at them. At that age, I got a chuckle from the gags, but "stickin' it to the man" was a concept that didn't occur to me, and I never thought my parents would be "worried" that I had some "counter culture" propaganda. I just enjoyed looking at them because I thought the artwork was awesome and many of them were funny to boot.

There were at least 3 or 4 other series in competition with wackys at the time. I have seen some samples (such as crazy covers and a few others whose names escape me now) mixed in with wacky lots I have purchased over the years. I looked at them, and thought "Oh, yeah, I remember those" but have had no desire to collect any of them like I do with wackys. The artwork was mediocre at best.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2010, 10:22:28 AM by billf »

Offline DrDeal

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Re: WP Old School 2 - SPOILER Thread
« Reply #77 on: October 14, 2010, 02:41:29 PM »
Wackys are iconic mostly due to Norm's art. Topps should do a Norm Saunders tribute series.   :)

DrDeal

Offline Dr Popper

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Re: WP Old School 2 - SPOILER Thread
« Reply #78 on: October 14, 2010, 02:57:14 PM »
I'm in total agreement with this. I was about 8 or 9 when I first started collecting these. I only recognized about 1/2 the products spoofed when they first came out. I thought the gags for the titles I did recognize were funny, but, know the product or not, the artwork is what captivated me. I never got tired of looking at them. At that age, I got a chuckle from the gags, but "stickin' it to the man" was a concept that didn't occur to me, and I never thought my parents would be "worried" that I had some "counter culture" propaganda. I just enjoyed looking at them because I thought the artwork was awesome and many of them were funny to boot.

There were at least 3 or 4 other series in competition with wackys at the time. I have seen some samples (such as crazy covers and a few others whose names escape me now) mixed in with wacky lots I have purchased over the years. I looked at them, and thought "Oh, yeah, I remember those" but have had no desire to collect any of them like I do with wackys. The artwork was mediocre at best.

That's right, there's something about Norm's art that is hard to put into words, and it had a way of "gripping" us as kids.  People our age now that didn't experience it as kids don't understand what we're talking about.
Dr Popper (aka Rob Palmer)

Offline Dr Popper

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Re: WP Old School 2 - SPOILER Thread
« Reply #79 on: October 14, 2010, 03:00:59 PM »
Wackys are iconic mostly due to Norm's art. Topps should do a Norm Saunders tribute series.   :)

DrDeal

They have one!  Norm's son David recently did a book and the book came with a trading card set featuring Norm's art...........

http://www.theillustratedpress.com/nscards.html
Dr Popper (aka Rob Palmer)

Offline Plan 9

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Re: WP Old School 2 - SPOILER Thread
« Reply #80 on: October 14, 2010, 03:04:53 PM »
When I was 10 I had no awareness of counterculture or sticking it to the man. Those are concepts are for adults and adults weren't collecting Wacky Packs back in the day. This theory has been written about in books and articles and even in the Wacky Pack book. It sounds good but it's wrong.

I also didn't care for Wacky Packs competition when I collected them in 1980. It was called Crazy Labels. The art was terrible. I bought some and never looked at them again. The written gags of parody stickers are nothing more than a chuckle at best and then it's over. But capturing humor artistically has a much stronger and timeless affect. That's why any artist who wants to paint Wackys should obsessively study Saunders work.

If Topps were to put out a Wacky series illustrated like the 1991's again, it's over.

Offline Plan 9

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Re: WP Old School 2 - SPOILER Thread
« Reply #81 on: October 14, 2010, 03:06:27 PM »
They have one!  Norm's son David recently did a book and the book came with a trading card set featuring Norm's art...........

http://www.theillustratedpress.com/nscards.html
Card set? I never got a card set with my order!

Offline Sue Mee

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Re: WP Old School 2 - SPOILER Thread
« Reply #82 on: October 14, 2010, 03:08:22 PM »
Card set? I never got a card set with my order!
Card set sold separately.
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Offline Plan 9

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Re: WP Old School 2 - SPOILER Thread
« Reply #83 on: October 14, 2010, 03:14:08 PM »
Card set sold separately.
Great. I already emailed Dan Zimmer to mention he forgot to send me a set.
Dr. Popper, aren't the words "came with" meant to imply a free accessory?

Offline Dr Popper

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Re: WP Old School 2 - SPOILER Thread
« Reply #84 on: October 14, 2010, 03:27:52 PM »
Great. I already emailed Dan Zimmer to mention he forgot to send me a set.
Dr. Popper, aren't the words "came with" meant to imply a free accessory?

Yes, I bought the book through David on Greg's original forum, and I think they came together for the price of the book.  That may have been a special deal for forum members though, I don't remember for sure.  It's also possible that I bought them separate just like you can buy them now because my memory sucks!
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Offline BustedFinger

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Re: WP Old School 2 - SPOILER Thread
« Reply #85 on: October 14, 2010, 05:27:15 PM »
I have to agree that it was the art on Wackys that got my attention.  The thing I admired the most was how closely the parody design matched the original packaging.  I remember making my own Wacky gags when I was a kid and how I enjoyed trying to make the lettering of my gag name match the lettering of the original product name.
Giving "The Hobby" the finger since 1999!

Offline GadzookaBoy

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Re: WP Old School 2 - SPOILER Thread
« Reply #86 on: October 14, 2010, 05:34:09 PM »
Here is a better pic of the image





AWESOME Dave !!!   :o

Me likey .. me likey A LOT !!!  :great: :great:
How old is this gum ???
It's ALL about being WACKY !!!
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Offline Plan 9

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Re: WP Old School 2 - SPOILER Thread
« Reply #87 on: October 14, 2010, 05:52:26 PM »
Yes, I bought the book through David on Greg's original forum, and I think they came together for the price of the book.  That may have been a special deal for forum members though, I don't remember for sure.  It's also possible that I bought them separate just like you can buy them now because my memory sucks!
My memory sucks worse than anyone's. I'm like that memento guy. And I haven't even smoked pot since...I can't remember!!

Offline Pupsi-Cola

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Re: WP Old School 2 - SPOILER Thread
« Reply #88 on: October 14, 2010, 07:02:34 PM »





Yes indeed, This is a very cool title, And I have 1 for the 1st 8 who send me a pm.




I have received a PM from NEZHEAD42 letting me know that he got his promo card, I want to hear from the rest of you when your card arrives.

Offline JasonLiebig

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Re: WP Old School 2 - SPOILER Thread
« Reply #89 on: October 14, 2010, 08:39:22 PM »
I'm trying to remember what it was about Wackys that attracted me as a kid.  I think, initially, they were stickers and I simply liked stickers.  But the fact that they were funny, and were making fun of the products all around in our kitchen, made them that much more appealing.  Of course, Norm's artwork and all that he brought, blended together to make them unforgettable images. 

As for counter-culture and sticking it to the man, well, those certainly weren't the concepts the kids were thinking about, but they were big parts of how and why the stickers came into being.  I certainly wasn't thinking of Joseph Campbell when I watched Star Wars, but his imprint was a big part of why that story worked the way it did.
Jason Liebig - A swell TV host (currently on History Channel) who used to oversee Marvel Comics' X-Men - now creator and curator of WishbookWeb.com and CollectingCandy.com, a celebration of candy packaging, marketing and the people behind it all

Offline Paul_Maul

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Re: WP Old School 2 - SPOILER Thread
« Reply #90 on: October 14, 2010, 09:07:25 PM »
I'm trying to remember what it was about Wackys that attracted me as a kid. 

I can honestly say, I have no doubt: I wouldn't care about wackys except for the Saunders art. To this day, while I find some of the gags mildly amusing, it's the images, and only the images, that I find really compelling.

Offline NEZHEAD42

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Re: WP Old School 2 - SPOILER Thread
« Reply #91 on: October 15, 2010, 05:46:34 PM »
My memory sucks worse than anyone's. I'm like that memento guy. And I haven't even smoked pot since...I can't remember!!


" I'm like that memento guy. " - Too funny! My memory has actually gotten worse since I quit smoking pot. Oddly, pot really used to give me alot of clarity. Maybe I should start smoking again. If only they would legalize it.
"What's the point of being grown up, if you can't act childish?" - Doctor Who

wackyone

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Re: WP Old School 2 - SPOILER Thread
« Reply #92 on: October 15, 2010, 05:59:46 PM »
" I'm like that memento guy. " - Too funny! My memory has actually gotten worse since I quit smoking pot. Oddly, pot really used to give me alot of clarity. Maybe I should start smoking again. If only they would legalize it.

why ever stop ..30 years and counting...i never miss a day..LOL

Offline Playbug

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Re: WP Old School 2 - SPOILER Thread
« Reply #93 on: October 15, 2010, 07:48:40 PM »
You are da man!  :great:

Great piece -- makes me want a beer! I was thinking the box was a super-dark midnight blue? I agree, the dark Wackys are sweet and I think Botch Tape may be unique in the sheer amount of darkness "behind" the image. Always thought it was almost in a category by itself. Great flies on that one -- they appear stuck and yet not fatally so -- an amazing subtle touch imo (and pure vintage Wacky in my book).



Yeah, I remember just stairing at that Botch Tape Card the first time I saw it in the 70's, like WOW this is really cool, different and memorable.
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World

Offline Playbug

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Re: WP Old School 2 - SPOILER Thread
« Reply #94 on: October 15, 2010, 07:57:03 PM »
My memory sucks worse than anyone's. I'm like that memento guy. And I haven't even smoked pot since...I can't remember!!


Too Funny ! ;D
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Offline NEZHEAD42

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Re: WP Old School 2 - SPOILER Thread
« Reply #95 on: October 15, 2010, 07:57:32 PM »
why ever stop ..30 years and counting...i never miss a day..LOL

I am gonna have to have a drug test to get into radiology school. I stopped 3 months ago and ended a 20 year run of almost every day. I love that "Wacky" tobacky!
"What's the point of being grown up, if you can't act childish?" - Doctor Who

Offline Playbug

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Re: WP Old School 2 - SPOILER Thread
« Reply #96 on: October 15, 2010, 08:03:58 PM »
Too Funny ! ;D

About what someone said earlier on "sticking it to the man" and parents not approving. My parents did not care, they looked at them and said "thats cool" "thats funny" "silly" etc. Sticking it to the man I did realize as busting on these household products was really neat to me as a kid.

Similiarly, I loved reading the Mad Magazines back then (and will still enjoy checking one out from time to time). It's really cool to look at some of the older Mad's cuz they were like the demented TMZ show sort of. You could check out gags of the times, like what ever movie or trend was popular they'd bust on, Jaws, Posiedon Adventure - etc. Neat.
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World

wackyone

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Re: WP Old School 2 - SPOILER Thread
« Reply #97 on: October 15, 2010, 08:35:46 PM »
I am gonna have to have a drug test to get into radiology school. I stopped 3 months ago and ended a 20 year run of almost every day. I love that "Wacky" tobacky!

I have many friends in "high" places that had to pass the tests,,,lots of ways to get around it these days
but yes,,,stopping for awhile is a good way to go

Offline Jean Nutty

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Re: WP Old School 2 - SPOILER Thread
« Reply #98 on: October 18, 2010, 12:55:03 AM »
About what someone said earlier on "sticking it to the man" and parents not approving. My parents did not care, they looked at them and said "thats cool" "thats funny" "silly" etc. Sticking it to the man I did realize as busting on these household products was really neat to me as a kid.
I was recently talking to a friend about why magic appeals to children so much. He called magic tricks, “The Great Equalizer”, where, for a moment, a kid has power over an adult because the kid knows the secret, but the adult (supposedly) doesn't. (BTW, this is why an important part of a parent's job is to repeatedly act stumped by the disappearing coin trick) Using codes, ciphers, and invisible ink is attractive to kids for the same reason, because the kid knows something the adult doesn’t, which provides the kid with a sense of power over the adult.  
  
I believe for some of us Wacky Packages kind of fall into the category of magic and codes in that the stickers seemed to provide some sense of power over adults and the outside world. Although we knew collecting Wacky Packages did not rise to the level of hiding Playboy magazines behind the washing machine in the garage or stealing the neighbor's Barbie doll, we had a notion we shouldn’t have the stickers, even if our parents were OK with them. Some of us may have thought if our (dumb) parents understood the gags that they would confiscate them, and I think there was an element of that for me. Of course back then I didn't "get" many of the gags, but that was beside the point!
« Last Edit: October 18, 2010, 12:56:42 AM by Jean Nutty »

Offline Plan 9

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Re: WP Old School 2 - SPOILER Thread
« Reply #99 on: October 18, 2010, 02:17:43 AM »
I was recently talking to a friend about why magic appeals to children so much. He called magic tricks, “The Great Equalizer”, where, for a moment, a kid has power over an adult because the kid knows the secret, but the adult (supposedly) doesn't. (BTW, this is why an important part of a parent's job is to repeatedly act stumped by the disappearing coin trick) Using codes, ciphers, and invisible ink is attractive to kids for the same reason, because the kid knows something the adult doesn’t, which provides the kid with a sense of power over the adult.  
  
I believe for some of us Wacky Packages kind of fall into the category of magic and codes in that the stickers seemed to provide some sense of power over adults and the outside world. Although we knew collecting Wacky Packages did not rise to the level of hiding Playboy magazines behind the washing machine in the garage or stealing the neighbor's Barbie doll, we had a notion we shouldn’t have the stickers, even if our parents were OK with them. Some of us may have thought if our (dumb) parents understood the gags that they would confiscate them, and I think there was an element of that for me. Of course back then I didn't "get" many of the gags, but that was beside the point!


The toilet is the great equalizer.

Offline sco(o)t

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Re: WP Old School 2 - SPOILER Thread
« Reply #100 on: October 18, 2010, 03:20:26 AM »
The toilet is the great equalizer.

As a kid, I remember getting in and getting out when it came to the toilet. Never really needing more than a few minutes. It also puzzled me
why the adults would often seem to camp in the bathroom. All the references to extended stays didn't make sense to me then. Oh, to have
naive bowels again,
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Offline Gurgle

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Re: WP Old School 2 - SPOILER Thread
« Reply #101 on: October 18, 2010, 08:09:16 AM »
"Sticking it to the man" was high on my list of why I enjoyed Wackys so much. I never would have been able to verbalize it that way, but seeing iconic, serious products being cut down to size resonated with me. It felt empowering. When I was about 7 or 8, I remember seeing Cracked Jerk, (unfortunately, I never collected the die cuts, but I did get to see cards someone else had bought), and the dog biting the kid seemed so daring, so wrong, as if Wackys didn't care who they made fun of. Cracker Jack was a product I had seen all the time and was supposed to look a certain way and this picture shook my perceptions. It seemed like it shouldn't be allowed because adults had rules and the Cracker Jack people would be mad. At that point in my life, I hadn't seen anything like it and they were fascinating.

Offline sco(o)t

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Re: WP Old School 2 - SPOILER Thread
« Reply #102 on: October 18, 2010, 10:18:35 AM »
"Sticking it to the man" was high on my list of why I enjoyed Wackys so much. I never would have been able to verbalize it that way, but seeing iconic, serious products being cut down to size resonated with me. It felt empowering. When I was about 7 or 8, I remember seeing Cracked Jerk, (unfortunately, I never collected the die cuts, but I did get to see cards someone else had bought), and the dog biting the kid seemed so daring, so wrong, as if Wackys didn't care who they made fun of. Cracker Jack was a product I had seen all the time and was supposed to look a certain way and this picture shook my perceptions. It seemed like it shouldn't be allowed because adults had rules and the Cracker Jack people would be mad. At that point in my life, I hadn't seen anything like it and they were fascinating.

I felt the same although some others here have said they had no such feelings associated with WPs. I used the word taboo because, even though my parents never uttered a word about WPs, besides that I was spending too much money on them, my friends and I felt it was somewhat a secret society. I think for the very same reasons you mention. I suppose age was partly a factor. I was 12 in 1972. One thing I have learned from working with Boy Scouts all these years is that the variation in maturity and  awareness of self within society can vary greatly between the ages of 8 and 13.  You can find a 9 year old, for example. who is very aware of local political elections and world events, etc and you can find a 14 year old who has no clue.

WPs definitely were targeted at this age group so apparently, people were drawn in for a number of different reasons. One of my friends just liked to stick them on his school notebooks. I will add however, that no matter what first drew me into the WP fascination, it was the artwork and wit that has held my interest all these years.
aka Scot Leibacher (no trademark)

Offline Playbug

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Re: WP Old School 2 - SPOILER Thread
« Reply #103 on: October 18, 2010, 03:27:21 PM »
Using codes, ciphers, and invisible ink is attractive to kids for the same reason, because the kid knows something the adult doesn’t, which provides the kid with a sense of power over the adult.  
Of course back then I didn't "get" many of the gags, but that was beside the point!


What about knowing wrapper codes?  O.K. that was silly.

I didn't get many of the gags at the time either as a young kid, but I was totally awed by the artwork & twisted view of the product.
Kick-a-man really is sticking it to the man !
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Offline eman

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Re: WP Old School 2 - SPOILER Thread
« Reply #104 on: October 18, 2010, 03:38:22 PM »
One thing I have learned from working with Boy Scouts all these years is that the variation in maturity and  awareness of self within society can vary greatly between the ages of 8 and 13.  You can find a 9 year old, for example. who is very aware of local political elections and world events, etc and you can find a 14 year old who has no clue.

Very true.  My son who is 15 1/2 just earned his Eagle Scout award and does seem to have just a vague understanding of politics etc.  Not trying to get into a political fight with anyone, but he said he feels scared that the country keeps getting further and further in debt.  Are you still active in scouts?  I'm the secretary and a committee member and go on a fair amount of the campouts and help in other places I'm needed.