Author Topic: New Ebay Bid Retraction policy for Sports and Non-Sports Trading Cards  (Read 1159 times)

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Offline moron_chicken

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My Comment:  Wonder why just trading cards?

We’re updating our bid retraction policy for Sports Trading Cards, Non-Sports Trading Cards, and Collectible Card Games auctions. Starting June 30, 2021, buyers will no longer have the ability to retract bids on trading cards auctions without seller approval. Sellers’ decisions to accept or reject auction bid retraction requests will be final.
How the new auction bid retraction policy will work
Starting June 30, if you want to retract an auction bid, you will need to contact the seller via messaging on eBay and request a retraction. The seller, at their sole discretion, will be able to accept or decline your retraction request. If the seller does not accept your request, your bid can still win or lose the auction, and you will be required to make payment on any winning bid you submit. We also inform buyers on our "Bid Retraction Policy" page that "a bid is a binding contract."

As previously communicated, as of April 2021, if an item goes unpaid by the 5th calendar day, the seller may cancel the order due to non-payment. Regularly missing payments may impact your account. Check out our Unpaid Item Policy to learn more.

We appreciate your support and willingness to work with this new policy as we anticipate our trading cards policy update will make eBay a more trusted and fairer marketplace for all.

Offline RawGoo

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I was wondering the same thing.

Offline DrDeal

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For the same reason they no longer sell Trading cards at Walmart or Target.  So much money in them things are getting out of hand. Cards are pretty ganster right now. Lots of shady activity due to sooo much money to be made.  IMO.

Andrew

Offline quas

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Why not coins, stamps, etc.?  Maybe it's a Pokemon thing - which is one area in which I have absolutely zero interest but it seems to be all the rage.
Marc

Offline RawGoo

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Why not coins, stamps, etc.?  Maybe it's a Pokemon thing - which is one area in which I have absolutely zero interest but it seems to be all the rage.

I always wonder how they grade the "corners" on the Pokemon cards  :-\

Offline bigtomi

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I always wonder how they grade the "corners" on the Pokemon cards  :-\
The rounder, the better? lol

Offline drono

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Maybe it's farther reaching, but we all got that message because we've bought sports and non-sports trading cards from eBay.

On another note, has anyone noticed that your saved searches with a lot of matches now have some of the results automatically removed to show the most relevant?  You have to click a link to see all of them.  That might make sense on a "blanket" search returning millions of results, but all of my searches are by Time: newly listed and this tends to remove some that are brand new.  How are they less relevant?


Offline BustedFinger

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Regarding the Bid Retraction thing:

I got an email from Gixen (the auction sniper service) about how they are going to modify their service to combat bid retractions.  Here is how they explained it:

The current eBay policies make it possible for users to retract their bids within one hour of placing them, and some users abuse this policy in order to win an auction in a fraudulent way. It works like this:

1) Fraudster opens two eBay accounts, let's call them account A and account B.
2) One hour before auction end, it uses account A to place a legitimate bid on an item.
3) Right after this, it uses account B that places a very high bid on the same item. This bid then prevents many other legitimate bids from that point on until the end of the auction.
4) Seconds before auction end, account B retracts its bid.
5) Account A wins at much lower price than would be the case otherwise.
Giving "The Hobby" the finger since 1999!

Offline quas

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Regarding the Bid Retraction thing:

I got an email from Gixen (the auction sniper service) about how they are going to modify their service to combat bid retractions.  Here is how they explained it:

The current eBay policies make it possible for users to retract their bids within one hour of placing them, and some users abuse this policy in order to win an auction in a fraudulent way. It works like this:

1) Fraudster opens two eBay accounts, let's call them account A and account B.
2) One hour before auction end, it uses account A to place a legitimate bid on an item.
3) Right after this, it uses account B that places a very high bid on the same item. This bid then prevents many other legitimate bids from that point on until the end of the auction.
4) Seconds before auction end, account B retracts its bid.
5) Account A wins at much lower price than would be the case otherwise.

Let me try an example.

I bid a legit bid of $100 on account A.
I then bid $500 on account B.  The current bid changes from $100 to $105 (say).
Bidder John bids $110.
Seconds before auction end, I retract my $500 bid on account B.
Bidder John has next highest bid and wins at $110.
What am I missing?

Marc

Offline RawGoo

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Let me try an example.

I bid a legit bid of $100 on account A.
I then bid $500 on account B.  The current bid changes from $100 to $105 (say).
Bidder John bids $110.
Seconds before auction end, I retract my $500 bid on account B.
Bidder John has next highest bid and wins at $110.
What am I missing?

That's what I was thinking.

Offline drono

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It seems to me that the $500 bid in your example would just encourage one of those eBaydiots to bid 20 times in a row in 5 dollar increments before giving up - thus driving up the price by another $100.  I could see how account B could work with the seller to drive up the price, and then the seller would let them retract, but how could it help account A win? 

Offline drono

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Let me try an example.

I bid a legit bid of $100 on account A.
I then bid $500 on account B.  The current bid changes from $100 to $105 (say).
Bidder John bids $110.
Seconds before auction end, I retract my $500 bid on account B.
Bidder John has next highest bid and wins at $110.
What am I missing?

I think I figured it out.  You're thinking that account A's bid of $100 is reasonable for the item.  How about this scenario: Let's say the auction is at $100 for an item that's worth around $250.  Account A bids $500 on item (way over valued), which only raises it to $105.  Then account B, bids $1000 (way way over valued), which raises it to $525, preventing others from bidding since it's only worth about $250.  So John, also Tom, Dick, Harry, Larry, and Mary never bid because they are patient and can wait for another one to come at a better price.  Then when account B retracts, account A wins for $105 since no one else bid over $100.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2021, 11:55:37 AM by drono »

Offline RawGoo

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I think I figured it out.  You're thinking that account A's bid of $100 is reasonable for the item.  How about this scenario: Let's say the auction is at $100 for an item that's worth around $250.  Account A bids $500 on item (way over valued), which only raises it to $105.  Then account B, bids $1000 (way way over valued), which raises it to $525, preventing others from bidding since it's only worth about $250.  So John, also Tom, Dick, Harry, Larry, and Mary never bid because they are patient and can wait for another one to come at a better price.  Then when account B retracts, account A wins for $105 since no one else bid over $100.

OK, that I can see.  Thanks.  But, it still seems to me that, although trading cards are hot right now, if this is good for cards it should be good for everything. 

Offline quas

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I think I figured it out.  You're thinking that account A's bid of $100 is reasonable for the item.  How about this scenario: Let's say the auction is at $100 for an item that's worth around $250.  Account A bids $500 on item (way over valued), which only raises it to $105.  Then account B, bids $1000 (way way over valued), which raises it to $525, preventing others from bidding since it's only worth about $250.  So John, also Tom, Dick, Harry, Larry, and Mary never bid because they are patient and can wait for another one to come at a better price.  Then when account B retracts, account A wins for $105 since no one else bid over $100.

Thanks.  Devious!
Marc

Offline Paul_Maul

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What often happens is the bad actor bids the auction up until the proxy bid is finally exposed. They then retract only the last bid.

Offline BustedFinger

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Let me try an example.

I bid a legit bid of $100 on account A.
I then bid $500 on account B.  The current bid changes from $100 to $105 (say).
Bidder John bids $110.
Seconds before auction end, I retract my $500 bid on account B.
Bidder John has next highest bid and wins at $110.
What am I missing?

Yeah - after re-reading this, I agree that it doesn't make sense.  So I went to the Gixen user forum and a lot of people were asking the owner of the site the same question.  Here is a better explanation:

-----------------------------------------
A few users asked me for an example of this, so here is a (fictional) example:

Legitimate Bidder L submits his max bid of 50, and let's say the current high bid ends up being 40. Let's assume the expected amount for which this item will be won is 80.

Fraudster submits, with account A, bid of 100. The current high bid jumps to 50+bid increment, let's say 51.
Fraudster submits, with account B, bid of 110. The current high bid jumps to 100+bid increment, let's say 101.

No one else bids on the item, because no one wants to bid above 80 or 85, it's not worth that much.

At the very end of the auction the fraudster retracts 110 bid submitted with his account B. The account A becomes the high bidder, and the current high bid drops back to 51, which becomes the winning price.
-----------------------------------------

So I guess the "fraud" here is making two very large bids while the current high bid is still low.  The two high bids drive the price up to a price point where no one else places bids.  Then when you retract the highest bid, the second highest bid drops down to whatever the bid increment is over the third highest bid.
Giving "The Hobby" the finger since 1999!

Offline BustedFinger

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I see Drono already figured it out!
Giving "The Hobby" the finger since 1999!

Offline jleonard1967

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Until ebay makes it that Graded Items can not be returned or collectables for that matter, then people are going to abuse any system in place.  Really guys what happens if high bidder doesn't pay, not a thing.  So now they make high bidder pay.  Then when he gets item he sends back for a refund saying he changed mind.  if it is not graded, you might not get your exact item back


Offline Paul_Maul

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The vast majority of bid retractions are intended to make the under bidder’s proxy bid max out. That’s why sniping makes so much sense.

There are two scenarios:

1. Shiller will enter tons of bids to bid it up in $20 increments until they hit the high bid. Then retract the last chip to leave the under bidder maxed out.

2. Shiller places atomic bid and then retracts. Then “player 3” enters the game and magically happens to place a bid just below the legit bidder’s high.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2021, 07:55:35 AM by Paul_Maul »

Offline drono

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It doesn't matter what rules are in play, someone dishonest will find a way to take advantage of them. 

I'm a sniper too, for two reasons:
1) I don't drive up the price early in a bidding war with an "eBaydiot" who thinks they're on Deal Dash
2) I don't give myself enough time to change my mind and pay more
« Last Edit: June 08, 2021, 02:35:06 PM by drono »

Offline drono

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This whole thread just got me thinking about a couple of auctions I was watching this weekend and hoping to win one of them.  Since the Wacky Packages market has slowed down, I've been working on my incomplete sports cards sets from my childhood.  Here's the scenario:

There were two auctions by the same seller for 1969 Topps Football lots, which has 263 cards in the set.  The first was for 249 of the 263 with all the high value cards (Unitas, Piccolo, Sayers, Meredith, Namath, Csonka, Butkus, Griese, and Starr), and the second, which ended 10 minutes later was for 152 of the 263 with just the Csonka and Meredith.  The second auction was a subset of the first - in other words, there was nothing in the second auction that was not in the first.  The description on both of these was "good" condition and could be used as fillers.  There were a handful of scans on each, and I would agree with the seller's grading.  The seller listed all of the cards in each (bravo to the seller!), so I used a spreadsheet where I can just put a "1" by the numbers and it will generate a total value for the low range of Near Mint.  On the first one, the value was around $350 (if NM) and the second was around $210 (if NM).  So good might be around 40-60% of that at best. 

What got me thinking was that the same buyer won both auctions with bids in the last few seconds.  The first was won with a bid of $290 with $280 showing as the current bid price.  I didn't see anything unusual about the first other than it was too much to pay - it was already over what I was willing to pay, so I was just watching.  However, the second was at $88, and I was willing to pay $120, so I bid with 7 seconds left.  The winner bid just after me with a bid of at least $125 to win.  If s/he was willing to pay at least $290 for the first, s/he was probably willing to pay at least $150 for the second, so that wasn't unusual.  What makes no sense to me is why the buyer wanted both of these.  There was nothing in the second that could help complete the set from what was in the first.  I smell something fishy, but maybe there's a good explanation.  Anyone?

Offline quas

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This whole thread just got me thinking about a couple of auctions I was watching this weekend and hoping to win one of them.  Since the Wacky Packages market has slowed down, I've been working on my incomplete sports cards sets from my childhood.  Here's the scenario:

There were two auctions by the same seller for 1969 Topps Football lots, which has 263 cards in the set.  The first was for 249 of the 263 with all the high value cards (Unitas, Piccolo, Sayers, Meredith, Namath, Csonka, Butkus, Griese, and Starr), and the second, which ended 10 minutes later was for 152 of the 263 with just the Csonka and Meredith.  The second auction was a subset of the first - in other words, there was nothing in the second auction that was not in the first.  The description on both of these was "good" condition and could be used as fillers.  There were a handful of scans on each, and I would agree with the seller's grading.  The seller listed all of the cards in each (bravo to the seller!), so I used a spreadsheet where I can just put a "1" by the numbers and it will generate a total value for the low range of Near Mint.  On the first one, the value was around $350 (if NM) and the second was around $210 (if NM).  So good might be around 40-60% of that at best. 

What got me thinking was that the same buyer won both auctions with bids in the last few seconds.  The first was won with a bid of $290 with $280 showing as the current bid price.  I didn't see anything unusual about the first other than it was too much to pay - it was already over what I was willing to pay, so I was just watching.  However, the second was at $88, and I was willing to pay $120, so I bid with 7 seconds left.  The winner bid just after me with a bid of at least $125 to win.  If s/he was willing to pay at least $290 for the first, s/he was probably willing to pay at least $150 for the second, so that wasn't unusual.  What makes no sense to me is why the buyer wanted both of these.  There was nothing in the second that could help complete the set from what was in the first.  I smell something fishy, but maybe there's a good explanation.  Anyone?

Compare the duplicate cards and take the better of the two, then sell off the others?
Marc

Offline sco(o)t

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 The winner bid just after me with a bid of at least $125 to win.  If s/he was willing to pay at least $290 for the first, s/he was probably willing to pay at least $150 for the second, so that wasn't unusual.  What makes no sense to me is why the buyer wanted both of these.  There was nothing in the second that could help complete the set from what was in the first.  I smell something fishy, but maybe there's a good explanation.  Anyone?
With Wackies, I more than occasionally, complete more than 1 set,
aka Scot Leibacher (no trademark)

Offline drono

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Compare the duplicate cards and take the better of the two, then sell off the others?

Maybe, but $415 is a lot to spend.  The buyer did have a feedback rating of almost 6000, which would probably mean a power seller?  Maybe they could be sold individually to get more, but that takes time to prepare a listing, time to sell and recoup, etc. 

With Wackies, I more than occasionally, complete more than 1 set,

That's certainly a possibility.  Maybe because I wouldn't drop $400+ on something like this, I wouldn't even think of it.  That's why I passed on the first listing here and never bought 10 sets of wackies from Topps to get the discount.  Being exclusively a collector and not a seller, I don't think that way.

Offline CaseyRob

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Maybe it's farther reaching, but we all got that message because we've bought sports and non-sports trading cards from eBay.

On another note, has anyone noticed that your saved searches with a lot of matches now have some of the results automatically removed to show the most relevant?  You have to click a link to see all of them.  That might make sense on a "blanket" search returning millions of results, but all of my searches are by Time: newly listed and this tends to remove some that are brand new.  How are they less relevant?


I haven't seen this with my saved searches (yet), but I have switched more and more to using quotes around words & phrases so that eBay won't give me endless results that bury my keywords in a wall-o-text description.