Author Topic: WP Forum PSA Thread  (Read 123487 times)

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Offline NationalSpittoon

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Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
« Reply #385 on: April 19, 2021, 03:59:34 AM »
ahhh, throwing your hat into the 16th series ring I see.  Lots of coipition in that end of the pool  ;)

Yeah, that was one of the cheaper ones on eBay and I like that card, so I went for it since I haven’t bought anything in a while. I’ll probably end up selling my raw Ghoul Humor to make a portion of the money back because I don’t have the entire series raw, so it isn’t like I’m breaking a set.

Did you mean that there’s a lot of competition? I don’t understand the second sentence.

Offline Paul_Maul

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Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
« Reply #386 on: April 19, 2021, 06:13:03 AM »

Offline bandaches

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Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
« Reply #387 on: April 19, 2021, 08:03:10 AM »
Congrats! I only have an 8.5!
Is PSA going to go to 2 significant decimals in the future?  Can one get an 8.7 or 8.75 or 8.99999999999999 which really is a 9 but really isn't?  8)
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Offline NationalSpittoon

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Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
« Reply #388 on: April 19, 2021, 12:09:33 PM »
Is PSA going to go to 2 significant decimals in the future?  Can one get an 8.7 or 8.75 or 8.99999999999999 which really is a 9 but really isn't?  8)

I think the dead horse has been beat so hard it’s somehow living again
It’s convulsing!

As someone who complains about PSA’s inaccuracy, who are you to complain about more accurate grades?

Offline bandaches

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Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
« Reply #389 on: April 19, 2021, 01:03:47 PM »
I think the dead horse has been beat so hard it’s somehow living again
It’s convulsing!

As someone who complains about PSA’s inaccuracy, who are you to complain about more accurate grades?
That is the funny part, you think decimals mean more accuracy with PSA when in fact it is nothing more than more confusing.  Think about it this way, if there was 8.1 to 8.9 grades out there, you really think that leads to more accuracy?  No chance....there will be 8.4's that appear better than 8.8s and even more endless debates but having 8.5 opens the door to why not a grade in between 8.5 and 9?  Have they always done decimals?  I doubt it which means some previously graded items are "really" 8.5s but they got 8's or 9's. The integrity of the whole grading system falls apart when the grading system changes but lets not pretend this is about integrity, this is about PSA making money and making sure their product is in demand.
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Offline NationalSpittoon

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Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
« Reply #390 on: April 19, 2021, 01:36:35 PM »
That is the funny part, you think decimals mean more accuracy with PSA when in fact it is nothing more than more confusing.  Think about it this way, if there was 8.1 to 8.9 grades out there, you really think that leads to more accuracy?  No chance....there will be 8.4's that appear better than 8.8s and even more endless debates but having 8.5 opens the door to why not a grade in between 8.5 and 9?  Have they always done decimals?  I doubt it which means some previously graded items are "really" 8.5s but they got 8's or 9's. The integrity of the whole grading system falls apart when the grading system changes but lets not pretend this is about integrity, this is about PSA making money and making sure their product is in demand.

Never said I think that an 8.1 or 3.14 should exist but there’s a great canyon between 8s and 9s, that’s why an 8.5 makes sense to me. And, again, I don’t buy them because I love PSA but because I enjoy the competition behind it and the trust I have in the grade when I buy it. If I see a 9 that doesn’t look like a 9, I don’t buy it. It’s that simple.

Offline jleonard1967

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Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
« Reply #391 on: April 19, 2021, 01:40:15 PM »
Yeah, that was one of the cheaper ones on eBay and I like that card, so I went for it since I haven’t bought anything in a while. I’ll probably end up selling my raw Ghoul Humor to make a portion of the money back because I don’t have the entire series raw, so it isn’t like I’m breaking a set.

Did you mean that there’s a lot of competition? I don’t understand the second sentence.
Yup, fixed it on the original post.

Offline bandaches

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Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
« Reply #392 on: April 19, 2021, 09:53:39 PM »
Never said I think that an 8.1 or 3.14 should exist but there’s a great canyon between 8s and 9s, that’s why an 8.5 makes sense to me. And, again, I don’t buy them because I love PSA but because I enjoy the competition behind it and the trust I have in the grade when I buy it. If I see a 9 that doesn’t look like a 9, I don’t buy it. It’s that simple.
Wise move to interject your own opinion when evaluating these for sure!  A big part of this is who has the best overall set and there really is no such thing when PSA8s from years ago would really be PSA 8.5s now.  Also, I see very little reference to .5s on the POP report, what is up with that?  There should be more 8.5s than 9's.  Are there .5s between all grade or just 8 and 9 or is there really no rule to this?
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Offline mikecho

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Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
« Reply #393 on: April 19, 2021, 10:26:32 PM »
Congrats! I only have an 8.5!
8.5 means 8 1/2, right?

Offline NationalSpittoon

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Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
« Reply #394 on: April 20, 2021, 03:32:48 AM »
Wise move to interject your own opinion when evaluating these for sure!  A big part of this is who has the best overall set and there really is no such thing when PSA8s from years ago would really be PSA 8.5s now.  Also, I see very little reference to .5s on the POP report, what is up with that?  There should be more 8.5s than 9's.  Are there .5s between all grade or just 8 and 9 or is there really no rule to this?

Your entire monologue about confusion is an opinion, so what’s in it for me explaining mine? I feel like you’re still only saying this because YOU have some vendetta against PSA even though you’re only grasping for straws finding “evidence” against them. Why can’t we just enjoy the cards?

Offline Paul_Maul

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Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
« Reply #395 on: April 20, 2021, 06:02:40 AM »
In case it’s not obvious, there is no such thing as a “best set.” Impatient rich folk will almost always be “flip buyers” and so the highest graded sets usually don’t have great eye appeal unless the collector happens to value that. PSA 10s mean nothing to me, my 1972 baseball set has so many PSA 9s that look perfect, I can’t imagine caring about getting a 10.

Offline Yubum

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Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
« Reply #396 on: April 20, 2021, 07:36:26 AM »
In case it’s not obvious, there is no such thing as a “best set.” Impatient rich folk will almost always be “flip buyers” and so the highest graded sets usually don’t have great eye appeal unless the collector happens to value that. PSA 10s mean nothing to me, my 1972 baseball set has so many PSA 9s that look perfect, I can’t imagine caring about getting a 10.

I find even most well-centered PSA 8 cards look fresh out of the pack to my untrained eye. I can't imagine what criteria they use to distinguish a 9 from a 10.

I have always liked what CGC does with comic grading where, for the most part when it comes to vintage comics i.e. pre-1980, perfect 10s do not exist. The rate must be like one in a million comics graded. NM/M CGC 9.8 is basically the highest grade possible, and still ultra rare when it comes to the Silver Age or earlier.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2021, 10:49:26 AM by Yubum »

Offline bigtomi

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Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
« Reply #397 on: April 20, 2021, 11:25:03 AM »
8.5 means 8 1/2, right?
Very good, you get a gold star on today's math quiz.

Offline bandaches

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Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
« Reply #398 on: April 20, 2021, 04:35:27 PM »
Your entire monologue about confusion is an opinion, so what’s in it for me explaining mine? I feel like you’re still only saying this because YOU have some vendetta against PSA even though you’re only grasping for straws finding “evidence” against them. Why can’t we just enjoy the cards?
LOL vendetta and grasping at straws?  Evidence for what?, just calling the buffoonery of the PSA grading system.  You will see I don't like when companies enrich themselves at the expense of collectors as we tend to get very locked in on things and pour money into it.  Super Impulse anyone?  PSA baffoonery grading system, ebay fees( I love love love cutting ebay out of deals), I was the one who tried to kick off the "yield on ebay club with the MAG8 collectors so we weren't unnecessarily enriching sellers with our collector money.....etc....you guys have far better eye than PSA, save the money and encapsulate them yourselves as many have said they have some PSA 8s they prefer than PSA9s....um yeah, based on their own discerning eye!  Yes of course in terms of trying to detect forgery and such on super high priced items if in fact PSA really can filter those out, have them authenticate.
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Offline bandaches

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Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
« Reply #399 on: April 20, 2021, 04:36:46 PM »
In case it’s not obvious, there is no such thing as a “best set.” Impatient rich folk will almost always be “flip buyers” and so the highest graded sets usually don’t have great eye appeal unless the collector happens to value that. PSA 10s mean nothing to me, my 1972 baseball set has so many PSA 9s that look perfect, I can’t imagine caring about getting a 10.
"so the highest graded sets usually don’t have great eye appeal" this is nutty!  Didn't you just acknowledge PSA grading is a crock of crap with that statement?
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Offline Paul_Maul

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Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
« Reply #400 on: April 20, 2021, 05:54:59 PM »
"so the highest graded sets usually don’t have great eye appeal" this is nutty!  Didn't you just acknowledge PSA grading is a crock of crap with that statement?

Well, I guess eye appeal is subjective. They don’t penalize certain defects I find ugly, so I avoid those particular high grade cards. Other collectors care more about the numerical grade.

Offline bandaches

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Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
« Reply #401 on: April 20, 2021, 10:42:41 PM »
Well, I guess eye appeal is subjective. They don’t penalize certain defects I find ugly, so I avoid those particular high grade cards. Other collectors care more about the numerical grade.
Why would high grade cards inherently have negative eye appeal?  Sorry I am clearly missing something here. I like your approach which is go what appeals to you and you have a great eye for this so I am still baffled why you would pay PSA to grade an item that you already love per your own eye appeal.  The only thing at that point you can possibly be chasing from PSA is their perception of the number, there is no other value they are providing you.
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Offline Paul_Maul

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Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
« Reply #402 on: April 21, 2021, 01:50:09 AM »
Why would high grade cards inherently have negative eye appeal?  Sorry I am clearly missing something here. I like your approach which is go what appeals to you and you have a great eye for this so I am still baffled why you would pay PSA to grade an item that you already love per your own eye appeal.  The only thing at that point you can possibly be chasing from PSA is their perception of the number, there is no other value they are providing you.

1. A PSA 9/10 quality card is rarely available ungraded anymore.

2. It is difficult to assess card quality from eBay scans. The PSA grade doesn’t guarantee I will like it, but it suggests certain hard to verify structural basics. My eyes can go from there.

Offline NationalSpittoon

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Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
« Reply #403 on: April 21, 2021, 07:27:19 AM »
LOL vendetta and grasping at straws?  Evidence for what?, just calling the buffoonery of the PSA grading system.  You will see I don't like when companies enrich themselves at the expense of collectors as we tend to get very locked in on things and pour money into it.  Super Impulse anyone?  PSA baffoonery grading system, ebay fees( I love love love cutting ebay out of deals), I was the one who tried to kick off the "yield on ebay club with the MAG8 collectors so we weren't unnecessarily enriching sellers with our collector money.....etc....you guys have far better eye than PSA, save the money and encapsulate them yourselves as many have said they have some PSA 8s they prefer than PSA9s....um yeah, based on their own discerning eye!  Yes of course in terms of trying to detect forgery and such on super high priced items if in fact PSA really can filter those out, have them authenticate.

Okay, I’ll start up my own grading business.

Come one, come all! I’ll grade your Wackys... just need a $500,000 Kickstarter fund

Offline bandaches

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Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
« Reply #404 on: April 21, 2021, 11:21:58 AM »
Okay, I’ll start up my own grading business.

Come one, come all! I’ll grade your Wackys... just need a $500,000 Kickstarter fund
LOL nope not quite sure you are getting the point....grade your own wackys for yourself and keep the ones that meet your eye appeal and encapsulate them with screw downs.  No money needs to change hands and owner is happy assuming there really has nothing to do with the PSA number....
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Offline MoldRush

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Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
« Reply #405 on: April 21, 2021, 02:47:00 PM »
LOL nope not quite sure you are getting the point....grade your own wackys for yourself and keep the ones that meet your eye appeal and encapsulate them with screw downs.  No money needs to change hands and owner is happy assuming there really has nothing to do with the PSA number....
It’s a valid point - if PSA’s grading standards, whether placing too much weight on defects that don’t bother you or too little on defects that do, or just inconsistently applying different standards at different times, are such that a collector would not accept their 8 or 9 as satisfactory sight unseen, then your personal grading standards are higher, or at least different from, PSA’s, so why not find raw cards that have the kind of eye appeal you’re after, preserve them in your own 1-card snaps, and forego all those insane fees?

Offline Paul_Maul

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Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
« Reply #406 on: April 21, 2021, 03:22:35 PM »
...so why not find raw cards that have the kind of eye appeal you’re after, preserve them in your own 1-card snaps, and forego all those insane fees?

At the risk of stating the obvious, because it’s hard to find wackys in perfect condition ungraded, and even if such a sticker is on eBay, it’s hard to tell how nice it is from eBay pictures. You have to buy huge collections then flip 99.9% of them. I’d rather by (a subset) of high graded stickers with eye appeal I like. Even though it can be expensive, it’s a lot easier.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2021, 03:24:31 PM by Paul_Maul »

Offline jleonard1967

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Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
« Reply #407 on: April 21, 2021, 06:47:25 PM »
LOL nope not quite sure you are getting the point....grade your own wackys for yourself and keep the ones that meet your eye appeal and encapsulate them with screw downs.  No money needs to change hands and owner is happy assuming there really has nothing to do with the PSA number....
Screw downs are very bad for cards, do not use screw down holders it compresses the fibers of the card.  You will get (min siz req) as a body bag on your cards

Offline MoldRush

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Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
« Reply #408 on: April 21, 2021, 07:07:01 PM »
Understood, I was thinking mainly about collectors who are seeking strong grades in certain respects that are important to them, but not necessarily absolute perfection.  I probably don’t have the most well-trained eye for what places a card in the PSA 9.0 to 10.0 stratosphere, so I could be clueless as to the relative scarcity of cards that would make that cut.  I was just recently thumbing through a few hundred common stickers from Series 3 to 8 that I had bought in various eBay lots over the years, and a lot of them look really nice and sharp to me, but for all I know, maybe none of them top a 6.0.

Given the relatively poor production standards of the era, the fragility of the flimsy card stock and tendency toward yellowing/browning over time, top-grade Wacky collectors really have their work cut out for them. 

Offline bandaches

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Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
« Reply #409 on: April 21, 2021, 07:58:12 PM »
At the risk of stating the obvious, because it’s hard to find wackys in perfect condition ungraded, and even if such a sticker is on eBay, it’s hard to tell how nice it is from eBay pictures. You have to buy huge collections then flip 99.9% of them. I’d rather by (a subset) of high graded stickers with eye appeal I like. Even though it can be expensive, it’s a lot easier.
Why is it so much easier to determine eye appeal of PSA items on ebay versus unslabbed items on ebay? Lets assume you seek a particular title in high grade, Kook Aid.  You look at non slabbed auctions that have Kook Aid scans and pick one no differently than picking one of the PSA slabbed ones on ebay.
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Offline bandaches

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Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
« Reply #410 on: April 21, 2021, 07:59:09 PM »
Screw downs are very bad for cards, do not use screw down holders it compresses the fibers of the card.  You will get (min siz req) as a body bag on your cards
Fair enough, what is a good holder for single cards?  Snap tites?
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Offline bandaches

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Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
« Reply #411 on: April 21, 2021, 08:01:19 PM »
Understood, I was thinking mainly about collectors who are seeking strong grades in certain respects that are important to them, but not necessarily absolute perfection.  I probably don’t have the most well-trained eye for what places a card in the PSA 9.0 to 10.0 stratosphere, so I could be clueless as to the relative scarcity of cards that would make that cut.  I was just recently thumbing through a few hundred common stickers from Series 3 to 8 that I had bought in various eBay lots over the years, and a lot of them look really nice and sharp to me, but for all I know, maybe none of them top a 6.0.

Given the relatively poor production standards of the era, the fragility of the flimsy card stock and tendency toward yellowing/browning over time, top-grade Wacky collectors really have their work cut out for them.
Interesting point, PSA9 vs PSA 10.  I doubt a glance of the card would detail the difference either so given you need a microscope to see the difference between PSA9 and PSA 10, eye appeal cant possibly be a determining factor.  Who the heck takes out their cards and uses a microscope to review and enjoy them?
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Offline MoldRush

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Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
« Reply #412 on: April 21, 2021, 09:00:54 PM »
Interesting point, PSA9 vs PSA 10.  I doubt a glance of the card would detail the difference either so given you need a microscope to see the difference between PSA9 and PSA 10, eye appeal cant possibly be a determining factor.  Who the heck takes out their cards and uses a microscope to review and enjoy them?
Maybe it’s the thrill of the hunt that brings the most gratification, more than the slabbed cards themselves.  I’m sure there are those who experience a letdown after they’ve conquered their basic collection and all the tough titles, and want to take it to another level to keep that hunt going, maybe even on some level wanting to relive the fun of the original experience all over again.

Online RawGoo

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Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
« Reply #413 on: April 22, 2021, 12:25:25 AM »
I just saw an article in my local newspaper -a Long Island company called Genamint Inc. has been bought by Collector's Universe/PSA for their technology that utilizes AI to grade cards.

Offline bandaches

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Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
« Reply #414 on: April 22, 2021, 09:25:51 AM »
Maybe it’s the thrill of the hunt that brings the most gratification, more than the slabbed cards themselves.  I’m sure there are those who experience a letdown after they’ve conquered their basic collection and all the tough titles, and want to take it to another level to keep that hunt going, maybe even on some level wanting to relive the fun of the original experience all over again.
but it was stated here the PSA number doesn't itself matter.  Seems graded with eye appeal is the goal and not the monetary benefit of a higher grade.  Perhaps deep down there really is the excitement of the monetary value after all.  I know I just scored a sealed inflatable with two guys price tag on it, super excited about it as I find like one thing to add to my collection per year.  Excited about its rarity but I am honest about it that getting it for $30 and knowing it is worth way more than that is also part of the appeal.  Always funny to watch folks deny the "value" of item is not part of the deal.
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Offline bandaches

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Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
« Reply #415 on: April 22, 2021, 09:34:24 AM »
I just saw an article in my local newspaper -a Long Island company called Genamint Inc. has been bought by Collector's Universe/PSA for their technology that utilizes AI to grade cards.
this is ABSOLUTELY the direction this was going to go.  It means the manual graders will mostly be let go and thru AI and high res scanning grades will be determined.  This will lead to higher consistency, lower cost for PSA to grade and then perhaps lower cost back to the collectors to have items graded.

In the cosmetics world, people's faces are scanned and thru examining down to the pores level, the right makeup and/or skin care is suggested and it emulates how the makeup will look as it does perfect color matching too. 

Centering analysis for cards that have off center placement on an uncut sheet will still be based on eye appeal of the centered borders and not true centering of the card per sheet placement but hey, it is a step towards consistency.  It will open the door for more decimals due to the more precision so get ready for more 8.6's in the future so everyone get ready to resubmit past PSA cards to find out the correct decimal placement.
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Offline Paul_Maul

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Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
« Reply #416 on: April 22, 2021, 09:39:59 AM »
Why is it so much easier to determine eye appeal of PSA items on ebay versus unslabbed items on ebay? Lets assume you seek a particular title in high grade, Kook Aid.  You look at non slabbed auctions that have Kook Aid scans and pick one no differently than picking one of the PSA slabbed ones on ebay.

The eye appeal aspect can be applied equally to graded and ungraded cards. The part that is difficult to discern on eBay is minute corner wear, warping, and other structural issues that are usually clear in hand but not from scans. I know a PSA 9 will generally have corners I am happy with. Thus, if it also has eye appeal I am happy with, I am likely to be pleased with the card.

Offline jleonard1967

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Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
« Reply #417 on: April 22, 2021, 12:06:05 PM »
I just saw an article in my local newspaper -a Long Island company called Genamint Inc. has been bought by Collector's Universe/PSA for their technology that utilizes AI to grade cards.
https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/professional-sports-authenticator-acquires-genamint-to-introduce-next-generation-technology-to-grading-process-301273225.html
Should help with the resubmitting to get better grades.  That practice should stop then.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2021, 12:08:54 PM by jleonard1967 »

Offline MadMike

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Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
« Reply #418 on: April 22, 2021, 08:59:24 PM »
Did someone above mention a KOOK AID with eye appeal? No problem, I found one.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/202904530389?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

Offline bandaches

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Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
« Reply #419 on: April 23, 2021, 06:24:44 AM »
https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/professional-sports-authenticator-acquires-genamint-to-introduce-next-generation-technology-to-grading-process-301273225.html
Should help with the resubmitting to get better grades.  That practice should stop then.
Its interesting they need the fingerprint of an item to stop it from being regraded, that shouldn't be necessary if their AI grading system is so good, it should pick up corrected flaws or should give the same grade over and over for a non modified submitted card, the subjective-ness from human graders being removed.  Trust me, they are going to allow resubmissions because it is $ for them and because with more precision comes more decimals.  If their AI grading system can site differences between two PSA 8's why make them both an 8?  The only question in my mind will be how many grades between 8 and 9 will they create?  thenths, quarters, thirds, halves?  I think they will pick a launching point for decimals like only PSa7 and higher or something.
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anything