One annoying thing about the PSA set registry...

[Paul_Maul]

So you buy a card and you want to add it one of your registry sets. But you can't because the card is in someone else's inventory. In most cases, another collector sold it and just forgot to remove it from their inventory, so you send a removal request, and they fix it.

Sometimes though, it is not removed. In this case, you must send PSA pictures (front and back) of the card to prove you really own it. This has happened to me several times and it's annoying to jump through all of these hoops. I feel like I'm sending a ransom demand!

[BAM]

Suuuuuuure you own that card. Tell us another one. 

[Paul_Maul]

It's probably a wonder bread sticker anyway....

[Uncle Bum]

Laul, Paul_Maul !  I still bear the shame of the two Lavirus fakes I bought before reading up, and still looking for a real Wacky one.

[BustedFinger]

It's probably a wonder bread sticker anyway....

Interesting that it doesn't identify which series it is on the slab.  Don't they usually do that?

[Paul_Maul]

Interesting that it doesn't identify which series it is on the slab.  Don't they usually do that?

They do now. This is an older slab. When you see MINT 9 all on the same line like that, it is prior to PSA introducing half grades (8.5, etc.). Now it would include the series and say

MINT
9

Example:

[Bigmuc13]

Dave,

Do they tell you what they take off for.  For example, why the Lavirus is one point less than a ten?  It looks pretty sweet to me.  Also, sorry about your Mets.  Slow start to the WS.

[Paul_Maul]

Dave,

Do they tell you what they take off for.  For example, why the Lavirus is one point less than a ten?  It looks pretty sweet to me.  Also, sorry about your Mets.  Slow start to the WS.

They don't tell you anything when they grade it. If you submit one for review, and they don't bump it up, they will tell you why.

To me, I see no appreciable difference between 9s and 10s, and I believe any 10, if cracked and resubmitted, would almost always come back a 9.

On the other hand, I see big differences between 8s and 9s.

[drono]

Sounds like the 2nd most perfect scam to me!

Here is #1:
I'm forming a business to recover data from corrupted hard drives.  If I can't recover your data, I'll send you back 50% of your money.  If you're not satisfied, you can send it back to me again, and I'll try one more time for an additional 25%.  If I can't recover it then, I'll tell you why.

[Paul_Maul]

The only breakdown in the analogy is that it's not their job to give you the grade you want, but the correct grade. Of course, ideally, they should never get it wrong, but the review process at least gives an avenue to "air your grievance."

There are a lot of things about the grading game that are imperfect. I believe if you have a single card reviewed, it will almost never be changed, but if you send in a bunch, they will usually bump a couple of them. That's obviously not the way they should do it, but I think it's the reality.

[drono]

The problem is that the grading criteria is too subjective.  It should involve easily measureable and therefore repeatable items like centering, corner roundness, gloss, coloring, etc.  Words like "sharp", "minor", "slight", "most", etc. are too ambiguous.  PSA should give a measured explanation like 58/42 centering, one corner rounded 12^o, 78% glossiness, 94% color saturation.  Obviously there are other factors like stains, writing, nicks, etc.  Even those could be measured by some criteria.  The score factors could be revealed without giving the actual formula for the final grade.  How many episodes of Deal or No Deal aired, and I don't think anyone ever figured out the banker's algorithm.  Even with that many examples, there were simply too many unknowns to give away the formula, so PSA's intellectual property would be protected. 

Personally, PSA grading doesn't matter to me.  When I see a ridiculous price for a PSA 8 or 9 on eBay with the wording, "none graded higher," that's pretty meaningless.  There are probably 100 or more that will never be sent in for grading for every one that was.  And what about the cards/stickers in unopened packs.  Isn't it like Schrodinger's cat?  There could there be a PSA 10 in any given pack, but we'll never know unless we open them.

[Paul_Maul]

I realize many think collecting graded cards is silly, a waste of money, etc. Here are the two main reasons it works for me:

1. For whatever reason, my main priority is to have cards that are in very nice condition. For over ten years, I was able to make good progress with that goal buying raw stickers. In those days, there were three or four guys who were constantly buying big collections, sorting them and selling sets. I had deals with almost all of them to sell me the highest grade stuff at a good premium. Besides lucking into some beautiful sets, that's how I got a lot of my nicest stuff. But those avenues have all dried up.

I just paid over $100 for a PSA 9 Seventon. While that sounds dumb, I had 23 of the 30 11th series stickers in that kind of condition that I paid very little for. So what are my choices to finish the set in similar condition?

2. A guy at the Allentown show had several raw baseball cards for sale. One of them was a 1953 Mickey Mantle that appeared to be in immaculate condition. If PSA graded at the level it appeared, it would be worth literally over $50K. My immediate thought was: this card is either trimmed/altered, or it is counterfeit. Because no one setting up at a card show would be stupid enough to sell a legit high grade card like that ungraded, leaving tens of thousands of dollars on the table. My point is, for high dollar cards like that, having an expert examine the card for alteration, re-coloration, trimming, etc. is the only way to go. Even if a Mantle card is not high grade these dangers exist.

Of course, if you're collecting cheaper cards and are not that condition conscious, it's probably not necessary. I do find it odd when I see something like wacky re-issues getting graded, because it just doesn't make economic sense given the grading costs and what they will sell for.

[Paul_Maul]

And drono, the level of quantitative precision you're expecting isn't realistic. It is for centering, but not much else. Like any human endeavor, it won't ever be 100% consistent, though that should certainly be the goal.

[RawGoo]

Your concerns about counterfeit cards resonate with me, just like concerns about "unopened" packs that turn out to be reseals.  I like seeing nice quality slabbed Wackys that I should be able to be sure are real, and that's why the PSA's have started appealing to me.

That being said, there's a PSA graded tan back "Series 1" Lavirus up on ebay that has the Wonderbread diecut shape, so buyers still need to beware.

[Paul_Maul]

What you have to do is combine your own wacky expertise (which we've seen repeatedly that PSA lacks) with their expertise in more general grading/certification areas.

I understand that there are a few things PSA won't do for me. They won't penalize for toning or diamond cuts, and they won't catch wonder bread stickers.

While I wish they were better, these are all things I can catch myself, so I live with it.

[Paul_Maul]

4 sharp corners has several Gadzooka tans in high grades for crazy money. Obviously they are wonder breads, even though there's no sure fire way to tell that for Gadzooka.

[RawGoo]

Here's a second annoying thing about PSA - with landscape orientation stickers, they seem to be random in choosing which direction they place the images before slabbing them. 

[Paul_Maul]

Here's a second annoying thing about PSA - with landscape orientation stickers, they seem to be random in choosing which direction they place the images before slabbing them.

Yep, and I hate that more than anything. They especially do it with landscape puzzle pieces and it drives me insane!!

[RawGoo]

Yep, and I hate that more than anything. They especially do it with landscape puzzle pieces and it drives me insane!!

It's amazing how aggravating it is!!  I assume they do the same thing with sports cards, like team shots?

[Paul_Maul]

It's amazing how aggravating it is!!  I assume they do the same thing with sports cards, like team shots?

They did it to me on this one. People have argued with me that there's no "right way" to do it, but with the baseball issues, there definitely is because the back orientation should be consistent with the vertical cards.

[BAM]

It's probably a wonder bread sticker anyway....

Doesn't the fact that "Topps Chewing Gum" is spelled out along the bottom prove beyond doubt that it is a wonder bread?

[BAM]

Now that I have a few graded stickers, I have to admit that I really like them, and will probably eventually get my collection graded. Unlike Paul_Maul, I'm going to settle for EX or better, otherwise I'll wind up divorced. ;-)

[Paul_Maul]

Doesn't the fact that "Topps Chewing Gum" is spelled out along the bottom prove beyond doubt that it is a wonder bread?

No. The first wonder bread release, which featured all early series stickers, had the "Topps Chewing Gum" spelled out, and the originals did not, so that was a way of distinguishing.

But later Wonder Bread releases had identical copyrights to the originals and so are not as easily distinguishable. In particular, original series 7 and up had the copyright spelled out even on the originals.

Here, read up!

http://www.wackypackages.org/stickers/wonderbread/

[Paul_Maul]

Now that I have a few graded stickers, I have to admit that I really like them, and will probably eventually get my collection graded. Unlike Paul_Maul, I'm going to settle for EX or better, otherwise I'll wind up divorced. ;-)

It's up to you, but I can't see the point in submitting EX stickers for grading. It doesn't increase their value at all at that grade (unless we're talking ultra premium titles) and submission fees run $6-7 per.

[BAM]

No. The first wonder bread release, which featured all early series stickers, had the "Topps Chewing Gum" spelled out, and the originals did not, so that was a way of distinguishing.

I'm not following your logic. If the card spells "Topps Chewing Gum", it *has* to be a wonder bread card, because *no* original series cards spell out "Topps Chewing Gum".  Am I missing something?

I know that some of the wonder bread cards do not spell out "Topps Chewing Gum" and those can be harder to distinguish from the original series card.

[Paul_Maul]

You're incorrect. All original series cards starting with series 7 spelled out the "Topps Chewing Gum."

Example:

[BAM]

It's up to you, but I can't see the point in submitting EX stickers for grading. It doesn't increase their value at all at that grade (unless we're talking ultra premium titles) and submission fees run $6-7 per.

I concede that you know far more than me about the subject, but I'm not sure I agree that a PSA grade six OS wacky isn't worth more than the exact same card in a non graded state. I would at least think that, if one were to sell the card later on ebay, one would at least be able to recover the $7 for the PSA graded card. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I'm just going by the prices I see on ebay for graded wackys. In other words, I think the very fact that they are graded and slabbed makes them worth at least $7 more, at least for the OS cards.

[BAM]

You're incorrect. All original series cards starting with series 7 spelled out the "Topps Chewing Gum."

Ah......now I see! I'm only up to series 6 in my collection.

[RawGoo]

I concede that you know far more than me about the subject, but I'm not sure I agree that a PSA grade six OS wacky isn't worth more than the exact same card in a non graded state. I would at least think that, if one were to sell the card later on ebay, one would at least be able to recover the $7 for the PSA graded card. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I'm just going by the prices I see on ebay for graded wackys. In other words, I think the very fact that they are graded and slabbed makes them worth at least $7 more, at least for the OS cards.

I believe a straight EX is a PSA Grade 5.

[RawGoo]

Here's something else I'm wondering about - how come some stickers are slabbed with what look like penny sleeves?

[BAM]

Here's something else I'm wondering about - how come some stickers are slabbed with what look like penny sleeves?

I haven't seen that yet. Were they PSA?

What are your thoughts on the other card grading services? I bought a Bum and Choke that were graded by SGC.

I was gonna post a pic, but it looks like Photobucket is down.

[Paul_Maul]

Here's something else I'm wondering about - how come some stickers are slabbed with what look like penny sleeves?

It is usually done when the sticker is slightly oversized and they're afraid putting it in the normal holder will damage it. I believe the plastic sleeve is supposed to make it harder for it to slide around. I'm not a big fan of how it looks, but my Bum Chex got that treatment:

[RawGoo]

Thanks for the explanation.  That's a VERY pretty Bum Chex!!

[Paul_Maul]

Thanks for the explanation.  That's a VERY pretty Bum Chex!!

Thanks. I'd prefer it a shade whiter, but you can't have everything I guess!

I still remember when I bought it raw from Francis Khoury. I was surprised how nice it was when it arrived!

[drono]

A guy at the Allentown show had several raw baseball cards for sale. One of them was a 1953 Mickey Mantle that appeared to be in immaculate condition. If PSA graded at the level it appeared, it would be worth literally over $50K. My immediate thought was: this card is either trimmed/altered, or it is counterfeit. Because no one setting up at a card show would be stupid enough to sell a legit high grade card like that ungraded, leaving tens of thousands of dollars on the table. My point is, for high dollar cards like that, having an expert examine the card for alteration, re-coloration, trimming, etc. is the only way to go. Even if a Mantle card is not high grade these dangers exist.

Of course, if you're collecting cheaper cards and are not that condition conscious, it's probably not necessary. I do find it odd when I see something like wacky re-issues getting graded, because it just doesn't make economic sense given the grading costs and what they will sell for.

I have to agree that PSA grading makes sense with high dollar cards, but there are only a handful of Wacky Packages that would sell for over $100 when not graded.  I'm just not that concerned with their being "near perfect."  I'll accept writing on the back, dinged corners, etc. as long as it doesn't really detract from the front of the sticker.  I'm not collecting for the value of what I have, but rather the joy of having the sticker and finally getting the complete set.  I wont lie, I would love to have stickers that appear as "out of the pack fresh" just like when I got them as a kid, but I'm not willing to pay premium prices for them when one that's not in that condition makes me just as happy.  At the end of the day it's just some ink on a sticker.  It's the memories that it conjures up that make it valuable to me.

I used to really be into sports cards and I recently picked up a complete set and all but six of a second set of the team logo stickers for the NBA/ABA in 1973-4.  A lot like Wackys, there are 33 in the set, and I bought 76 stickers for $75 on eBay.  I've seen plenty of PSA 9 and 10s on there for well over $100/sticker.  My stickers would probably grade around 5-7, so saving over $3K on a complete set makes me a lot happier than owning a set of PSA 10s.