Wacky Packages Forum

Wacky Packages Discussion => General Wacky Packages Discussion => Topic started by: NationalSpittoon on August 08, 2017, 03:40:33 PM

Title: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on August 08, 2017, 03:40:33 PM
Welcome to the Wacky Packages Forum PSA Thread!

This is for PSA collectors who want to show off their graded cards.

When you get cards graded, or you score something big, post them here in the WP Forum PSA Thread!
Title: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on August 08, 2017, 03:41:40 PM
(https://s20.postimg.cc/nalv8ganx/Betty_Crooked7.png)(https://s20.postimg.cc/db05k1e65/Tijuana_Smells7.png)(https://s20.postimg.cc/6gpuuclj1/Knuckles7.png)(https://s20.postimg.cc/4yzt51rel/Krazy7.png)


(https://s20.postimg.cc/xoraffksd/Clank7.png) (https://s20.postimg.cc/e5diel799/Smith_Sisters7.png)(https://s20.postimg.cc/uj6op8265/Glutton7.png)(https://s20.postimg.cc/u2cabaznh/Graft7.png)
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Archive
Post by: Paul_Maul on August 08, 2017, 04:36:02 PM
Just one quick one to help inaugurate your archive...

(https://www.collectorfocus.com/images/show/Paul_Maul/wacky-packages-2nd-series-whitebacks/61174/8-lives)
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Archive
Post by: NationalSpittoon on August 08, 2017, 04:39:15 PM
Just one quick one to help inaugurate your archive...

(https://s19.postimg.org/53wnv0zab/image.jpg)

Oh my.  :D
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Archive
Post by: bigtomi on August 08, 2017, 04:50:53 PM
Welcome to the Wacky Packages Forum PSA Archive!
Not to be a downer, but it's possible this Archive won't be around for a real long time. Using postimg from this board, in my experience, means your images are not kept forever. I've had some uploaded images expire and disappear from my posts. Just a warning...I could be wrong.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Archive
Post by: RawGoo on August 08, 2017, 04:53:25 PM
Just one quick one to help inaugurate your archive...

(https://s19.postimg.org/53wnv0zab/image.jpg)

As I've said before, that sticker is truly a wonder to behold.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Archive
Post by: Paul_Maul on August 08, 2017, 04:54:23 PM
Are the images stored within your postimage account? I'm still an advocate of just uploading the pics to your personal account and using a direct link.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Archive
Post by: bigtomi on August 08, 2017, 04:57:10 PM
Are the images stored within your postimage account?
No, uploaded directly to postimg from the board [Add image to post link].
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Archive
Post by: Paul_Maul on August 08, 2017, 05:00:19 PM
As I've said before, that sticker is truly a wonder to behold.

It certainly is a hen's tooth! As is its tan-backed brother....

(https://s19.postimg.cc/6pn6hlmeb/8livestan.jpg)
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Archive
Post by: NationalSpittoon on August 08, 2017, 05:03:26 PM
Not to be a downer, but it's possible this Archive won't be around for a real long time. Using postimg from this board, in my experience, means your images are not kept forever. I've had some uploaded images expire and disappear from my posts. Just a warning...I could be wrong.

How else do you upload them?
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Archive
Post by: Paul_Maul on August 08, 2017, 05:37:40 PM
How else do you upload them?

You can create your own postimage account, and then use links to post the images here.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Archive
Post by: Jean Nutty on August 08, 2017, 11:04:15 PM
You can create your own postimage account, and then use links to post the images here.

postimage.org claims they never remove or deactivate images from message boards using their service, but clearly we have lost many here.

Does creating your own account get around that issue?
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Archive
Post by: NationalSpittoon on August 09, 2017, 04:12:11 AM
Series 5 Sludge, NM 7                     Series 5 Graft, NM 7                                                                                                   

STATS

Betty Crooked Sludge                         Graft
AUTH: 0 Total                            AUTH: 0 Total
PR 1: 0 Total                              PR 1: 0 Total
FR 1.5: 0 Total                           FR 1.5: 0 Total
GOOD 2: 0 Total                        GOOD 2: 0 Total
VG 3: 0 Total                             VG 3: 0 Total
VG-EX 4: 0 Total                        VG-EX 4: 1 Total
EX 5: 3 Total                              EX 5: 3 Total
EX-MT 6: 10 Total                      EX-MT 6: 14 Total
NM 7: 14 Total; 1 Q               EX-MT+ 6.5: 1 Total
NM-MT 8: 11 Total                    NM 7: 14 Total
NM-MT+ 8.5: 1 Total                  NM+ 7.5: 1 Total
MINT 9: 4 Total; 1 Q                  NM-MT 8: 15 Total
GEM MT 10: 0 Total                   NM-MT+ 8.5: 1 Total
                                               MINT 9: 4 Total; 2 Q
                                               GEM MT 10: 0 Total

TOTAL GRADED: 45               TOTAL GRADED: 56

*Statistics as of August 9, 2017.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Archive
Post by: Paul_Maul on August 09, 2017, 04:37:12 AM
Thank God 5th series glossies are common, at least toning isn't so much of a worry with this series. Wish I could say the same about the 4th!
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Archive
Post by: NationalSpittoon on August 09, 2017, 05:12:27 AM
Thank God 5th series glossies are common, at least toning isn't so much of a worry with this series. Wish I could say the same about the 4th!

Not even sure if I own any glossy 4ths to be quite honest. Gonna have to check that.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Archive
Post by: Paul_Maul on August 09, 2017, 06:28:52 AM
6th glossies are the rarest. 4ths are uncommon enough that it's petty hard to find them in high grade.

I don't think Bum and Choke exist in glossy form, suggesting glossies were introduced after they were pulled.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Archive
Post by: NationalSpittoon on August 09, 2017, 06:45:22 AM
6th glossies are the rarest. 4ths are uncommon enough that it's petty hard to find them in high grade.

I don't think Bum and Choke exist in glossy form, suggesting glossies were introduced after they were pulled.

Oh I believe I have a few 6th glossies.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Archive
Post by: NationalSpittoon on August 09, 2017, 07:10:42 AM
Series 5 Smith Sisters, NM 7            Series 5 Krazy Crackers, NM 7

STATS

Smith Sisters                       Krazy Crackers
AUTH: 0 Total                      AUTH: 0 Total
PR 1: 0 Total                        PR 1: 0 Total
FR 1.5: 0 Total                     FR 1.5: 0 Total       
GOOD 2: 0 Total                  GOOD 2: 0 Total
VG 3: 0 Total                       VG 3: 0 Total
VG-EX 4: 1 Total                  VG-EX 4: 1 Total
EX 5: 1 Total                        EX 5: 7 Total
EX-MT 6: 13 Total                 EX-MT 6: 14 Total
NM 7: 15 Total                   NM 7: 19 Total; 1 Q
NM-MT 8: 18 Total; 2 Q         NM-MT 8: 10 Total; 5 Q
MINT 9: 3 Total; 1 Q             MINT 9: 1 Total; 1 Q
GEM MT 10: 0 Total               GEM MT 10: 0 Total

TOTAL GRADED: 54           TOTAL GRADED: 59

*Statistics as of August 9, 2017.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Archive
Post by: Paul_Maul on August 09, 2017, 07:31:03 AM
Funny how the high grade populations of some titles get blown up by mislabeled wonder breads, but this one never has....

(http://s19.postimg.cc/47as0qoyr/shot2.jpg)
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Archive
Post by: NationalSpittoon on August 09, 2017, 07:34:29 AM
Funny how the high grade populations of some titles get blown up by mislabeled wonder breads, but this one never has....

(http://s19.postimg.org/47as0qoyr/shot2.jpg)

That Shot Wheels is indeed a beauty. I wonder if that is the case for tan back Gadzooka's? I mean they mislabeled most likely all of them if you think about it. There is no difference. Same with Tied, except I believe there are less of those graded.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Archive
Post by: Paul_Maul on August 09, 2017, 07:36:10 AM
Absolutely, I would guess probably 95+ % of all graded tan Gadzookas  and Tieds are wonder breads.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Archive
Post by: NationalSpittoon on August 09, 2017, 02:38:40 PM
I'll expand upon a different card which is even harder to find not miscut than Shot Wheels. The culprit's name is Jerky Fruits.

If you haven't noticed, a Jerky Fruits NM-MT 8 showed up on ebay. I might show a scan of my keeper so far but it is of course miscut. Not as awful as most, but still bad.

Auction link: eBay auction: #272790045993

What does everyone think this will go for? I know this is likely a sought after title in 8 simply for the people who strive to get the highest registry grades under their name. (It is actually owned by PSA User: Ghosts1157.) But is it really worth $375? There is one higher graded Jerky Fruits, actually.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Archive
Post by: Paul_Maul on August 09, 2017, 02:47:49 PM
I agree that's a very tough title. Maybe you realize this, but the eBay seller and Ghosts1157 are one and the same. Like 70topcat, he is just putting some of his tough cards up for sale at very high prices, being willing to let them go if someone bites. I don't see this as a terribly attractive 8, but you never know if the right buyer comes along.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Archive
Post by: NationalSpittoon on August 09, 2017, 03:33:26 PM
I agree that's a very tough title. Maybe you realize this, but the eBay seller and Ghosts1157 are one and the same. Like 70topcat, he is just putting some of his tough cards up for sale at very high prices, being willing to let them go if someone bites. I don't see this as a terribly attractive 8, but you never know if the right buyer comes along.

Yeah I know it is him. His sets are labelled as owned by "Inlineonline" on PSA, but he changed his name to "Ghosts1157." It is nicely centered, but as I mentioned, there are some people who want the cards just because they are graded high. I can see that, but I like pretty cards...
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Archive
Post by: NationalSpittoon on August 10, 2017, 04:53:12 AM
Your image posting already got one of my photos removed up above. (Sludge)
Not completely sure about that strategy.

EDIT: I fixed it by re-posting the link in case it happens again to any of the pictures.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Archive
Post by: Paul_Maul on August 10, 2017, 06:34:22 AM
Your image posting already got one of my photos removed up above. (Sludge)
Not completely sure about that strategy.

EDIT: I fixed it by re-posting the link in case it happens again to any of the pictures.

I don't understand what you mean. What caused the image to be lost?
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Archive
Post by: NationalSpittoon on August 10, 2017, 06:39:13 AM
I don't understand what you mean. What caused the image to be lost?

I phrased that wrong. I posted the images using your strategy for it and the Sludge picture disappeared and was covered by a blue square that said the image was removed.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Archive
Post by: Paul_Maul on August 10, 2017, 06:44:05 AM
I phrased that wrong. I posted the images using your strategy for it and the Sludge picture disappeared and was covered by a blue square that said the image was removed.

The way it is posted now is what I said. Maybe it just needed to be refreshed?
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Archive
Post by: NationalSpittoon on August 10, 2017, 06:45:21 AM
The way it is posted now is what I said. Maybe it just needed to be refreshed?

I guess so. It was an easy fix, all I did was get rid of the link and add it again. That's probably what happens with most of the photos on the forum.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Archive
Post by: Paul_Maul on August 10, 2017, 06:46:59 AM
I guess so. It was an easy fix, all I did was get rid of the link and add it again. That's probably what happens with most of the photos on the forum.

I've never had a picture hosted from my account disappear in four years. If they are uploaded and linked outside my account they do disappear after a certain period.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Archive
Post by: NationalSpittoon on August 20, 2017, 04:31:57 AM
Found something that I don't believe has been on ebay for a while and is a bit underrated on toughness.

eBay auction: #272809917149

The SMR price guide indicates this price is too high! What is your opinion?
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Archive
Post by: Paul_Maul on August 20, 2017, 06:36:38 AM
The seller (which is an alternate account of 70topcat) always prices way high and entertains offers.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Archive
Post by: Paul_Maul on August 20, 2017, 03:01:07 PM
Just scored a nice example of a fairly tough wacky....

(https://s19.postimg.cc/p1afwvulf/image.jpg)
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Archive
Post by: NationalSpittoon on August 20, 2017, 04:33:31 PM
Just scored a nice example of a fairly tough wacky....

(https://s19.postimg.org/p1afwvulf/image.jpg)

Great! Was it one you got graded or did you buy it from someone else?
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Archive
Post by: Paul_Maul on August 20, 2017, 05:03:41 PM
Great! Was it one you got graded or did you buy it from someone else?

I bought it from someone else. There's a guy I met through Collectors Universe forums who digs up great wackys and usually offers them to me before putting them on eBay. The submission he just got back was unbelievable. Two of the 10s were on eBay last night but are now gone.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Archive
Post by: bandaches on August 20, 2017, 06:26:30 PM
Found something that I don't believe has been on ebay for a while and is a bit underrated on toughness.

eBay auction: #272809917149

The SMR price guide indicates this price is too high! What is your opinion?
With that centering, how did it get a grade without a qualifier?
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Archive
Post by: bigtomi on August 20, 2017, 06:30:30 PM
With that centering, how did it get a grade without a qualifier?
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you can request no qualifiers and the grade is lowered accordingly.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Archive
Post by: Paul_Maul on August 20, 2017, 06:42:30 PM
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you can request no qualifiers and the grade is lowered accordingly.

Yes, it is usually lowered two grades in lieu of the qualifier.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Archive
Post by: bandaches on August 20, 2017, 08:09:06 PM
Yes, it is usually lowered two grades in lieu of the qualifier.
For a $10,000 item the scans sure are poor!  I am not finding I can zoom in on this.  I guess it could be PSA8 material sans he centering as the corners look solid.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Archive
Post by: Paul_Maul on August 20, 2017, 08:38:16 PM
Not a great quality scan. Nutzaboutcards and clevelandkid are worse. If you expect to sell four figure cards, can't you at least invest in a good scanner?
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Archive
Post by: NationalSpittoon on August 21, 2017, 02:24:56 AM
I bought it from someone else. There's a guy I met through Collectors Universe forums who digs up great wackys and usually offers them to me before putting them on eBay. The submission he just got back was unbelievable. Two of the 10s were on eBay last night but are now gone.

What were the tens?
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Archive
Post by: Paul_Maul on August 21, 2017, 04:25:04 AM
What were the tens?

Ajerx and Fishbone white backs. I think for Ajerx it was the first 10.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Archive
Post by: NationalSpittoon on August 21, 2017, 05:47:58 AM
Ajerx and Fishbone white backs. I think for Ajerx it was the first 10.

Yep. Checked the population report for white back 2nds and the Ajerx is 1 of 1, and the Fishbone is 1 of 2. Any idea what he sold them for? Or what is his ebay name?

EDIT: His ebay ID is "cardster1", Fishbone sold for $550.

He also sold the only Jerkyfruits MINT 9 for $800. Along with Series 9 Shake n Skip GEM MINT 10 for $600, Pop 1 of 2. GEM MINT 10 Czechlets Pop 1 of 3 sold for $480. He also sold a couple red ludlow 2nds, lots of rarities.
Here's a link to his profile for those interested, he has several other PSA's on there including a NM-MT 8 Black Lud Boo Hoo and several 10's. Along with a full series 1 set raw.

http://www.ebay.com/usr/cardster1 (http://www.ebay.com/usr/cardster1)
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Archive
Post by: Paul_Maul on August 22, 2017, 06:42:01 AM
Alert....if anyone is considering purchasing any of the 1st series PSA Wackys currently being offered by smrcollectibles on eBay, you should know they are all 1979 test stickers. Not sure where they came from, but the die cuts show them to not be real 1st series stickers.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Archive
Post by: NationalSpittoon on August 22, 2017, 07:59:45 AM
Alert....if anyone is considering purchasing any of the 1st series PSA Wackys currently being offered by smrcollectibles on eBay, you should know they are all 1979 test stickers. Not sure where they came from, but the die cuts show them to not be real 1st series stickers.

Hmm. Wasn't there someone on the forum a while ago who wanted to purchase PSA graded 1sts without lines around the border? I would probably stab at the Mrs Klean so I would have a 79 test sticker but I'm not sure about being allowed to take the card out of the holder. Not sure if there's a process for that.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Archive
Post by: Paul_Maul on August 22, 2017, 08:09:48 AM
Hmm. Wasn't there someone on the forum a while ago who wanted to purchase PSA graded 1sts without lines around the border? I would probably stab at the Mrs Klean so I would have a 79 test sticker but I'm not sure about being allowed to take the card out of the holder. Not sure if there's a process for that.

What do you mean by "allowed?"
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Archive
Post by: NationalSpittoon on August 22, 2017, 09:24:31 AM
What do you mean by "allowed?"

Bad wording on my part. I meant to ask about there being some sort of procedure needed to delete the cert. off of PSA or something.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Archive
Post by: Paul_Maul on August 22, 2017, 09:46:59 AM
Bad wording on my part. I meant to ask about there being some sort of procedure needed to delete the cert. off of PSA or something.

Yeah, well in theory, if you crack a card out to resubmit it, they want you to send them the cert label, but frankly no one ever bothers, so the pop report is already FUBAR. Especially for high demand cards where a bump is worth big money, the pop report is really inaccurate in bumpable grades.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Archive
Post by: NationalSpittoon on August 22, 2017, 01:16:36 PM
Yeah, well in theory, if you crack a card out to resubmit it, they want you to send them the cert label, but frankly no one ever bothers, so the pop report is already FUBAR. Especially for high demand cards where a bump is worth big money, the pop report is really inaccurate in bumpable grades.

I can see what you mean with bumpable grades. (With emphasis being put on cards like a Jolly Mean 21 VG3, Ratz AUTH, Cracked AUTH.)

I wonder why people will keep a card like T206 Honus Wagner graded at AUTH? Is it because people will pay more to have it in their registry? Will people pay less raw because they want it in their registry and have to get it graded at a higher premium than normal to do so? Either way it would sell for big money, but none get "bumped" even though one might prefer it non graded, and/or want the thrill of it coming back getting a better grade than expected. What do you think?
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Archive
Post by: Paul_Maul on August 22, 2017, 02:13:34 PM
I'm not sure what you're saying, but cards that are graded AUTH are usually that way because they are deemed to be altered.

For a T206 Wagner the AUTH is huge because it shows it is not a fake.

I'm saying (for example) that the population of 8s is usually inflated because a 9 is often worth 5-10 times more, so trying to re-sub has a big upside.

For example I just picked up this '73 Clemente because I feel it is a super nice 8 that could reasonably be a 9. If I ever feel like cracking and re-submitting (or reviewing) it could go from an $80 card to $400+. For really valuable cards that are high end the card may be re-subbed many times looking for that valuable bump, thereby throwing the pop report into disarray.

(https://s19.postimg.cc/5fhdmy2sj/IMG_1524.jpg)

Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Archive
Post by: NationalSpittoon on August 22, 2017, 02:42:44 PM
I'm not sure what you're saying, but cards that are graded AUTH are usually that way because they are deemed to be altered.

For a T206 Wagner the AUTH is huge because it shows it is not a fake.

I'm saying (for example) that the population of 8s is usually inflated because a 9 is often worth 5-10 times more, so trying to re-sub has a big upside.

For example I just picked up this '73 Clemente because I feel it is a super nice 8 that could reasonably be a 9. If I ever feel like cracking and re-submitting (or reviewing) it could go from an $80 card to $400+. For really valuable cards that are high end the card may be re-subbed many times looking for that valuable bump, thereby throwing the pop report into disarray.

(https://s19.postimg.org/5fhdmy2sj/IMG_1524.jpg)

Here you see my confusion. I thought what you meant by "Bump" was to take the card out of the holder and own it raw. Now I understand what you are talking about.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Archive
Post by: Paul_Maul on August 22, 2017, 03:04:53 PM
Here you see my confusion. I thought what you meant by "Bump" was to take the card out of the holder and own it raw. Now I understand what you are talking about.

Oh, sorry, yeah, bump means the grade of the card is increased upon review or resubmission.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Archive
Post by: freetoes on August 24, 2017, 10:43:20 AM
I'm not sure what you're saying, but cards that are graded AUTH are usually that way because they are deemed to be altered.

For a T206 Wagner the AUTH is huge because it shows it is not a fake.

I'm saying (for example) that the population of 8s is usually inflated because a 9 is often worth 5-10 times more, so trying to re-sub has a big upside.

For example I just picked up this '73 Clemente because I feel it is a super nice 8 that could reasonably be a 9. If I ever feel like cracking and re-submitting (or reviewing) it could go from an $80 card to $400+. For really valuable cards that are high end the card may be re-subbed many times looking for that valuable bump, thereby throwing the pop report into disarray.

(https://s19.postimg.org/5fhdmy2sj/IMG_1524.jpg)

I didn't know there was a 1973 Clemente card.  By Opening Day (around the time the first original series Wackys appeared), he had been elected posthumously to the HOF.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Archive
Post by: NationalSpittoon on August 26, 2017, 04:25:39 AM
Anyone who needs PSA 9 series 9 titles should go to Cardster1's ebay as he listed several, along with series 2 and 3 titles as well. The link is still in an above post of mine.

(8/27) - Cardster1 listed five 1967 Diecuts including Moron Salt and Campy.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Archive
Post by: Paul_Maul on August 30, 2017, 02:05:33 PM
Picked up a triple upgrade from cardster....from a toned, PSA 8 possible wonder bread to a nice white, two asterisk PSA 9!

(https://s19.postimg.cc/8ljy0aahv/IMG_1532.jpg)
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Archive
Post by: Bigmuc13 on August 30, 2017, 02:14:02 PM
Nice!  you are really adding some nice high grade stickers to your collection lately
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Archive
Post by: Paul_Maul on August 30, 2017, 02:21:15 PM
I find the 4th series really aggravating because so many are toned. There aren't enough high grade glossies around to go that route like there are with 5ths, so I've had a really hard time finding nice, white ones.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Archive
Post by: RawGoo on August 31, 2017, 03:18:51 AM
Wish I had seen that Raw Goo!
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Archive
Post by: NationalSpittoon on August 31, 2017, 12:34:33 PM
Very nice.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Archive
Post by: BustedFinger on August 31, 2017, 06:07:47 PM
Wish I had seen that Raw Goo!
Yeah, your avatar looks a little toned.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Archive
Post by: Slaytex99 on August 31, 2017, 09:06:04 PM
Yeah, your avatar looks a little toned.

Yes and only one asterisk!  :]
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Archive
Post by: jleonard1967 on September 01, 2017, 08:33:42 AM
Alert....if anyone is considering purchasing any of the 1st series PSA Wackys currently being offered by smrcollectibles on eBay, you should know they are all 1979 test stickers. Not sure where they came from, but the die cuts show them to not be real 1st series stickers.
Good to know. To bad for the person who purchased the PSA 9 lavirus. Good eye on that. I did not notice it.  How much is a test series worth though?
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Archive
Post by: NationalSpittoon on September 04, 2017, 03:12:39 AM
Hope someone else partook in "Nutzaboutcards" fire sale last night. Lots of PSA wackies went up and only a NM/MT 8 Garbage Candy even went over 40 bucks. With wanting to save up for the fall show I only bid on a Dimwit Dots PSA 8 and got outbid in the end by a dollar. (Would have probably bid again if I didn't have to stay up to ten o' clock..) Should've bid on the Shots PSA 7 to go with my 5th series because it only went for like 3 dollars or something.

eBay auction: #302429061259
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Archive
Post by: Paul_Maul on September 04, 2017, 06:30:31 AM
Running actual auctions gives sobering insight into what stuff is actually worth. Die cuts, 1st and 16th series aside, there is a yawning chasm between PSA 8 and PSA 9 values these days.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Archive
Post by: Paul_Maul on September 04, 2017, 06:35:15 AM
Actually, looking at the results, a lot of the 8s sold for more than I would have expected.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Archive
Post by: NationalSpittoon on October 02, 2017, 12:31:41 PM
My first ever PSA Submission, I subbed two cards with Paul_Maul's order. (Thanks!!)

(https://s20.postimg.cc/ubosougzh/Moobelline8.png)         (https://s20.postimg.cc/oc11l6w71/Grime8.png)
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Archive
Post by: Paul_Maul on October 02, 2017, 03:40:51 PM
Congratulations on getting some good grades, glad it was not a disappointment!
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Archive
Post by: bigtomi on October 02, 2017, 04:02:13 PM
My first ever PSA Submission, I subbed two cards with Paul_Maul's order. (Thanks!!)
Congrats! Very nice!
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Archive
Post by: ratchet007 on October 03, 2017, 01:44:05 PM
Congrats Mark. Nice grades. I remember my first submission like it was yesterday.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on December 30, 2018, 08:26:45 AM
Anyone get anything new?

Changed the name to something a little less cringe-worthy. (It used to be the WP Forum PSA Archive.)
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: RawGoo on December 30, 2018, 09:27:58 AM
Nothing new here.  The last two months, I've been focused on selling toys and models in an attempt to make some room in my horribly overfilled house.  With all this new loot from toy selling, maybe I'll start looking for graded Wackys again soon  :P :P    Or, I'll start listing my extra PSAs along with the toys...........  at least those don't need all kinds of special sized boxes!
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on December 30, 2018, 09:52:48 AM
Nothing new here.  The last two months, I've been focused on selling toys and models in an attempt to make some room in my horribly overfilled house.  With all this new loot from toy selling, maybe I'll start looking for graded Wackys again soon  :P :P    Or, I'll start listing my extra PSAs along with the toys...........  at least those don't need all kinds of special sized boxes!

I might be interested in some. I'm watching a PSA 7 Shots (Series 5) on eBay. It looks nicer than any 8's on there. I'd be interested to see what you have for sale. I feel like I want to work on completing the 16th series and Diecuts first but they will take a while anyways, so why not?
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Paul_Maul on December 31, 2018, 04:38:51 AM


(https://www.collectorfocus.com/images/show/Paul_Maul/1967-wacky-packages/63942/14-alcohol-seltzer)
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: RawGoo on December 31, 2018, 04:49:38 AM
That's beautiful!
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Bigmuc13 on December 31, 2018, 09:43:25 AM

(https://www.collectorfocus.com/images/show/Paul_Maul/1967-wacky-packages/63942/14-alcohol-seltzer)
How is this one only an 8?
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Paul_Maul on December 31, 2018, 09:48:03 AM
How is this one only an 8?

It has a little wear on the upper left corner that isnít as evident in the photo.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on December 31, 2018, 09:57:24 AM
Very nice Alcohol Seltzer!
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: RawGoo on January 05, 2019, 03:17:48 AM
Got an email from PSA yesterday - they have a 1st quarter special of $10 per card (post 1955), with a 25 card minimum. 
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on January 05, 2019, 04:55:25 AM
I want to bring this up here:

Does anyone else get bothered by the fact that PSA orders the cards alphabetically and not by the checklist? It just doesn't seem true to the cards considering checklists are a part of the master set...
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Paul_Maul on January 05, 2019, 06:44:50 AM
I want to bring this up here:

Does anyone else get bothered by the fact that PSA orders the cards alphabetically and not by the checklist? It just doesn't seem true to the cards considering checklists are a part of the master set...

Yes, in fact. But nearly everything bothers me!
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Paul_Maul on January 05, 2019, 06:47:39 AM
Got an email from PSA yesterday - they have a 1st quarter special of $10 per card (post 1955), with a 25 card minimum.

Until January 1, there was a permanent bulk rate of $10 for 10 or more cards. While that has been done away with, itís hard to get excited about a ďspecialĒ like this. Unfortunately, itís the best weíll ever see again Iím afraid.

My CC renewal sub, which used to be 7 day turnaround, is now 20-day, and is on the 20th day with nothing. Another guy on the CU forum is on day 27. This is the new normal so that every POK…MON card in Asia can be graded.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: RawGoo on January 05, 2019, 07:33:50 AM
Until January 1, there was a permanent bulk rate of $10 for 10 or more cards. While that has been done away with, itís hard to get excited about a ďspecialĒ like this. Unfortunately, itís the best weíll ever see again Iím afraid.

My CC renewal sub, which used to be 7 day turnaround, is now 20-day, and is on the 20th day with nothing. Another guy on the CU forum is on day 27. This is the new normal so that every POK…MON card in Asia can be graded.

The handful of my Wackys that went in last year took MONTHS.  I have a few left that might be worth trying, but I am leaning towards just selling them raw on evilbay. 

I imagine the Pokemon cards, with their curved corners, are easier to get higher grades for.  Aside from that factor, they also are not all that old, and didn't come with gum or wax issues.  I remember searching for quite some time to find a Charizard for my boyfriend's nephew.........  scored one just a few days before Christmas.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: DrSushi on January 05, 2019, 02:51:39 PM
The handful of my Wackys that went in last year took MONTHS.  I have a few left that might be worth trying, but I am leaning towards just selling them raw on evilbay. 

I imagine the Pokemon cards, with their curved corners, are easier to get higher grades for.  Aside from that factor, they also are not all that old, and didn't come with gum or wax issues.  I remember searching for quite some time to find a Charizard for my boyfriend's nephew.........  scored one just a few days before Christmas.

Do you know why you don't want to go to the bathroom with a Pokemon?





wait for it                                    wait for it                                      wait for it                                       wait for it                                       wait for it                                     wait for it





He might Pikachu!
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: RawGoo on January 05, 2019, 03:47:35 PM
OUCH!!
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on January 05, 2019, 04:10:03 PM
Do you know why you don't want to go to the bathroom with a Pokemon?





wait for it                                    wait for it                                      wait for it                                       wait for it                                       wait for it                                     wait for it





He might Pikachu!

He won't if you Ketchum.






...ew
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: vahsurfer on January 06, 2019, 10:01:04 AM
PokePoo!

Hahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahaha
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on January 13, 2019, 08:06:45 AM
Is anyone planning on subbing anything with the new, super cheap offer?
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Paul_Maul on January 13, 2019, 02:35:59 PM
Is anyone planning on subbing anything with the new, super cheap offer?

There is no new cheap offer. What are you referring to?
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on January 13, 2019, 03:15:22 PM
There is no new cheap offer. What are you referring to?

Just refer to my sarcasm, please.

I know there's no cheap offer. I was more so saying that because there are a few cards I am looking to sub. I have come to the conclusion that I am not really going to purchase any reissues, most likely, anymore. I will likely sub my ones that I expect to get a 10. (And I only picked out four. Disappointing, am I right?) I, from there, would likely purge my others and buy other 10's. They're affordable mint copies. Seems like a better solution to me.
The graded reissues don't really gain any value but it's more for the fact that I know they are mint than anything. They have more value as 10's than if they aren't, or are raw.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on October 20, 2019, 11:21:43 AM
(https://i.postimg.cc/yNS7Hb5h/15-Demented-PSA.jpg) (https://i.postimg.cc/yNS7Hb5h/15-Demented-PSA.jpg)
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Paul_Maul on October 20, 2019, 02:58:55 PM
Nice! De-Mented is an edge of the sheet title and thus one of the tougher die cuts to find well centered and in nice shape.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on October 21, 2019, 02:14:32 AM
It is a bit OC to the left, but it doesnít bother me all too much. Super clean back, and bright colors. Couldnít resist buying it. I like the die-cuts more and more everyday.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on July 01, 2020, 03:46:06 PM
(https://i.postimg.cc/WdMFwGn1/23-Muller.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/WdMFwGn1)
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Paul_Maul on July 01, 2020, 04:26:07 PM
Very nice!
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on July 03, 2020, 04:15:59 AM
Very nice!

Thank you! Chippin' off the graded diecut set one title per year!  :]
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Topcat on July 03, 2020, 02:04:13 PM
To my Wacky Package friends that collect PSA cards. I just had these 4 PSA card holders produced. They are awesome to display your cards in a 3 Ring binder! Years ago Ultra Pro made them and they were very popular but they stopped production. The Ultra Pro's were 5 mil thick, I had these made 8 mil! The cards snap in easily and sit very secure.  Similiar but not the same quality are on Ebay for $8 per sheet, I will sell them to Forum members for $5.75 per and a little better for bulk. 
(https://i.postimg.cc/hf59MxJK/IMG-9861.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/hf59MxJK)

(https://i.postimg.cc/5YgzzFdd/IMG-9862.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/5YgzzFdd)
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on July 03, 2020, 02:46:50 PM
This is a cool concept. For me, it is a bit of a space issue considering I already have toploader binders of which take up an incredible amount of space. Nice either way.

The cards though, unbelievable! Choke Wagon 9? Okay now...
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Topcat on July 03, 2020, 03:56:09 PM
Thank you! I like them for my wacky sets because a full set fits in two, 3-ring binders.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: RawGoo on July 03, 2020, 03:56:19 PM
Those pages look really nice!  Can't afford them for my whole collection (not enough space, either), but maybe for the really special ones.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on July 14, 2020, 01:25:45 PM
(https://i.postimg.cc/0yCWR7xF/IMG-1219.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/5X6q8YXS) (https://i.postimg.cc/Z5m7Mwk6/IMG-1220.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/GHMxBJmp)
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: RawGoo on July 19, 2020, 11:39:59 AM
To my Wacky Package friends that collect PSA cards. I just had these 4 PSA card holders produced. They are awesome to display your cards in a 3 Ring binder! Years ago Ultra Pro made them and they were very popular but they stopped production. The Ultra Pro's were 5 mil thick, I had these made 8 mil! The cards snap in easily and sit very secure.  Similiar but not the same quality are on Ebay for $8 per sheet, I will sell them to Forum members for $5.75 per and a little better for bulk. 
(https://i.postimg.cc/hf59MxJK/IMG-9861.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/hf59MxJK)

(https://i.postimg.cc/5YgzzFdd/IMG-9862.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/5YgzzFdd)

For anyone wondering, I picked up some of these card holders today, and they are really nice!  Now, I need to buy more binders......
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on September 08, 2020, 11:59:14 AM
For any of you interested, there's an app called Camscanner (of which I found out about because of school) where you take pictures on your phone and you can crop and edit photos as if it were a scan. It's really nice for scanning any Wackys, and I'll put a couple PSA ones here because those are the ones that I actually want good scans for. Try and find decent lighting, and get the least reflection of your smartphone as possible, snap the picture, and it will crop it. If the cropping is off, drag one of the corners and it'll magnify it for you so that you can see what you're cropping with ease. Then, you can see settings that brighten the photo to look closer to a scan. I use the filter/option to the right of the original one. Don't remember the name, but it only slightly brightens it. If you choose the next one over from that, it'll make the most toned card ever look alpine white...

Here's a couple examples:

(https://i.postimg.cc/xkYwGt9q/15-Demented-PSA.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/xkYwGt9q) (https://i.postimg.cc/9DG3qv5v/S5-HaHa.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/9DG3qv5v)
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Fanatical_and_Sickly on September 08, 2020, 04:20:50 PM
For any of you interested, there's an app called Camscanner (of which I found out about because of school) where you take pictures on your phone and you can crop and edit photos as if it were a scan.
how is it different than just simply editing a photo on your phone? I can do all those things currently
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on September 08, 2020, 04:27:18 PM
how is it different than just simply editing a photo on your phone? I can do all those things currently

The filters mimic a scan more in my opinion, and if youíre taking a photo of a card, but you took it slightly crooked, you can crop the photo without it having to be square. If you donít want the crop to be an exact right angle, you donít have to. Not sure how to explain it better, but itís really useful.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Paul_Maul on September 09, 2020, 03:50:53 AM
It doesnít really address the negatives of a photo vs. a true scan though. I still see shadows.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on September 09, 2020, 05:18:53 AM
It doesnít really address the negatives of a photo vs. a true scan though. I still see shadows.

Yeah, not all grass is green for sure, but I still think it turns out better than the original camera because I, for one, don't have a scanner anymore. So, this is a good alternative for one.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on September 10, 2020, 12:27:41 PM
(https://i.postimg.cc/yYt7gYCk/S6-Peter-Pain.jpg) (https://i.postimg.cc/yYt7gYCk/S6-Peter-Pain.jpg/)

New pickup.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Paul_Maul on September 10, 2020, 01:05:21 PM
(https://i.postimg.cc/Dyw3B29D/S6-Peter-Pain.jpg) (https://i.postimg.cc/Dyw3B29D/S6-Peter-Pain.jpg/)

New pickup.

Very nice!!
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on September 22, 2020, 12:58:46 PM
Anyone know why "appealslaw" has ten 1st Series PSA sets on the registry? He must really like the set.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Paul_Maul on September 22, 2020, 03:34:47 PM
Anyone know why "appealslaw" has ten 1st Series PSA sets on the registry? He must really like the set.

Duznít matter; had sets
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Paul_Maul on September 22, 2020, 03:35:43 PM
His top set will probably pass me soon. I just canít find any upgrades I like better than what I have any more.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: jleonard1967 on September 22, 2020, 04:06:05 PM
His top set will probably pass me soon. I just canít find any upgrades I like better than what I have any more.
The closer to completion does do that. It is very hard to find upgrades. I agree with you on that, you are even more particular than I am.  So trust me I get what you are saying.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on September 23, 2020, 03:05:52 AM
His top set will probably pass me soon. I just canít find any upgrades I like better than what I have any more.

I know you're particular, but this is hard to believe. I feel like there's just as high of a population of 1sts as other series aside from a few titles, in high grade, and (while this is irrelevant) I still don't understand why they pull a premium.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Paul_Maul on September 23, 2020, 03:37:59 AM
You find what hard to believe? I have around 8 titles I donít have a 9 of, and a few 9s for which I donít love the eye appeal. They tend to be tougher titles, and in the rare event an (overpriced) 9 appears on eBay, my 8/8.5 generally has better eye appeal. I will never ďupgradeĒ to an uglier card.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Paul_Maul on September 23, 2020, 03:39:26 AM
They pull a premium because itís the most popular original series, and while they are not ultra rare, they are not as common in high grade as middle series.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: drono on September 23, 2020, 06:35:41 AM
And people like me, at the ripe old age of 9, didn't know what they were, so they put them in the pocket of their shorts and carried them around to show to their friends thus damaging the product.  Unfortunately my 1st tans all got washed in said pocket of my shorts and completely destroyed.  By the time the later series came around, we knew what they were, and if we weren't into sticking them on things, we didn't put them in our pockets and took better care of our collection. 

In all actuality though, most of the higher grade cards came from product opened after 9-pocket sheets and hard plastic protectors were commonplace.  There were far less series 1 unopened packs killed later in life, thus the shortage of higher grade material.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: sco(o)t on September 23, 2020, 07:27:24 AM
And people like me, at the ripe old age of 9, didn't know what they were, so they put them in the pocket of their shorts and carried them around to show to their friends thus damaging the product.  Unfortunately my 1st tans all got washed in said pocket of my shorts and completely destroyed.  By the time the later series came around, we knew what they were, and if we weren't into sticking them on things, we didn't put them in our pockets and took better care of our collection. 

In all actuality though, most of the higher grade cards came from product opened after 9-pocket sheets and hard plastic protectors were commonplace.  There were far less series 1 unopened packs killed later in life, thus the shortage of higher grade material.

I was about 14 when WPs came out and I don't remember any of my friends or I having the "collector mentality" back in those days. I'm sure there were comic and baseball card collectors, but shoe boxes were the fanciest holding apperatus I saw back then. And that was more to do with volume than preserving the integrity of the cards.   :]
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: drono on September 23, 2020, 08:57:33 AM
Shoe boxes were the fanciest holding apperatus I saw back then. And that was more to do with volume than preserving the integrity of the cards.   :]

Those and cigar boxes.  My dad used to bring them home from work.  I loved the smell of the cigar boxes.  I find them periodically in antique stores now, but the smell is gone.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: jleonard1967 on September 23, 2020, 04:02:52 PM
I remember storing all my cards in those Topps Football card lockers from the late 70s
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Yubum on October 02, 2020, 02:50:58 PM
I notice many of the PSA graded wackys on eBay are in the older non-hologram PSA holders. Are there any known issues with the old-style holders vs. the new Lighthouse style? Or are there any opinions as to whether the grading was tighter/looser on cards graded prior to the introduction of the current PSA holder (I believe it was updated in 2017)?
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Paul_Maul on October 02, 2020, 03:31:40 PM
I notice many of the PSA graded wackys on eBay are in the older non-hologram PSA holders. Are there any known issues with the old-style holders vs. the new Lighthouse style? Or are there any opinions as to whether the grading was tighter/looser on cards graded prior to the introduction of the current PSA holder (I believe it was updated in 2017)?

The lighthouse holders look better, and are more difficult to tamper with. Not really a concern for garden variety wackys.

I got most of my wackys graded in 2013-2015. I have always thought PSA was a little looser with wackys than with baseball cards, simply because they have examined them so much less. But I havenít noticed a big difference in tightness over the years (as I have observed with some baseball sets). If anything, probably a bit tighter now than very old flips.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on October 07, 2020, 04:57:22 AM
The lighthouse holders look better, and are more difficult to tamper with. Not really a concern for garden variety wackys.

I got most of my wackys graded in 2013-2015. I have always thought PSA was a little looser with wackys than with baseball cards, simply because they have examined them so much less. But I havenít noticed a big difference in tightness over the years (as I have observed with some baseball sets). If anything, probably a bit tighter now than very old flips.

Yeah, I like the new flips. When I first started collecting these, I strayed away from the older flips because I didn't like the way they looked.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: BustedFinger on October 07, 2020, 09:18:57 AM
What the heck is a "flip"?
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Paul_Maul on October 07, 2020, 09:41:19 AM
What the heck is a "flip"?

Itís the little slip of paper at the top with the PSA logo and cert number and card information on it.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Yubum on October 07, 2020, 10:11:57 AM
Yeah, I like the new flips. When I first started collected these, I strayed away from the older flips because I didn't like the way they looked.

My feelings exactly. I don't have many graded Wackys but have definitely noticed the new PSA holders look a lot nicer. Thanks for the feedback, all.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: RawGoo on October 07, 2020, 12:24:52 PM
When the "flip" starts to matter in the value of the graded card, I'm done   >(
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on October 07, 2020, 12:36:53 PM
When the "flip" starts to matter in the value of the graded card, I'm done   >(

The flip is the value. No flip, no grade.

ok, now I am starting to sound a bit simple
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on October 13, 2020, 07:25:50 AM
I'm still thinking of boycotting PSA for not keeping Wackys in checklist order.


grrrr
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: drono on October 13, 2020, 09:23:40 AM
I'm still thinking of boycotting PSA for not keeping Wackys in checklist order.

It's for us old farts who can't remember the order on the checklist as we've gotten older.  I used to list all of my extras and needs that way, then it got to where I couldn't find them in my own list anymore, so I went to alphabetical order.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Paul_Maul on October 17, 2020, 06:19:38 AM
When the "flip" starts to matter in the value of the graded card, I'm done   >(

Itís not a significant factor in value. But it really isnít as crazy as it sounds. Any difference in value would just reflect a consensus of what grading was like during that time period.

If the buyer could examine the card carefully it shouldnít matter, but in online transactions every bit of information is of value.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Alexeirex on October 18, 2020, 02:32:30 PM
PSA graded a very off-center card as a 9 Off-center??? Centering is a big factor when grading encapsulated stamps, so this is surprising...
A
(https://i.postimg.cc/rD6WbTFr/s-l225.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/rD6WbTFr)
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on October 18, 2020, 02:53:28 PM
PSA graded a very off-center card as a 9 Off-center??? Centering is a big factor when grading encapsulated stamps, so this is surprising...
A
(https://i.postimg.cc/rD6WbTFr/s-l225.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/rD6WbTFr)

Itís a qualifier. Aside from the centering, it grades a 9. In reality, sans the qualifier, the card is a 7 as the qualifier drops the grade down by two.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on November 04, 2020, 07:54:45 AM
(https://i.postimg.cc/3Jm9jqnX/S2-Gyppy-Pop.jpg) (https://i.postimg.cc/3Jm9jqnX/S2-Gyppy-Pop.jpg/)

Need a more overcast day for a better picture, but just got this...

Bright, colorful, centered, nice corners... what more can ya ask for?
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Paul_Maul on November 04, 2020, 08:18:26 AM
Very nice. Sometimes wackys like this will receive a higher grade because of a mis-perception by the grader of what the vertical centering should be like. I have seen 9s and 10s that look just like this.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on November 04, 2020, 09:12:44 AM
Very nice. Sometimes wackys like this will receive a higher grade because of a mis-perception by the grader of what the vertical centering should be like. I have seen 9s and 10s that look just like this.

It is definitely worthy of a 9 if you ask me, it is even nicer than I expected.

I also have two more high grade PSA's coming later this week...
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on November 07, 2020, 06:09:50 AM
So, here's my two other pickups...

(https://i.postimg.cc/rF46ZqQH/S5-Chumps.jpg) (https://i.postimg.cc/rF46ZqQH/S5-Chumps.jpg/) (https://i.postimg.cc/VkPx32hk/S5-Swiss-Mess.jpg) (https://i.postimg.cc/VkPx32hk/S5-Swiss-Mess.jpg/)
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Paul_Maul on November 07, 2020, 08:34:47 AM
Great! Two titles I remember fondly.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: ToadallyDude on November 07, 2020, 03:41:23 PM
Did I hear correctly recently that PSA was under investigation or something?
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Paul_Maul on November 07, 2020, 04:26:04 PM
Did I hear correctly recently that PSA was under investigation or something?

Itís a long story. PSA clearly certified and encapsulated altered cards. However, I donít believe they are guilty of anything other than not being able to do what they say they can do which is catch alterations.

eBay auction house PWCC, on the other hand, is under investigation, and is likely guilty of conspiring to intentionally bring altered cards to marketplace. They may also be guilty of cooperating with those who cracked, altered and resubmitted cards.

If you want all the sordid details search the forum on Blowout Cards.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: jleonard1967 on November 07, 2020, 06:48:08 PM
So, here's my two other pickups...

(https://i.postimg.cc/rF46ZqQH/S5-Chumps.jpg) (https://i.postimg.cc/rF46ZqQH/S5-Chumps.jpg/) (https://i.postimg.cc/VkPx32hk/S5-Swiss-Mess.jpg) (https://i.postimg.cc/VkPx32hk/S5-Swiss-Mess.jpg/)
Starting to really build up your 5th series
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on November 08, 2020, 04:46:10 AM
Starting to really build up your 5th series

Yes, maybe that series will be my magnum opus (for some reason) and (for now).

This purchase was more enjoyable because Chumps is my first top pop title, being 1/10 PSA 9's with no 10's.

Unfortunately, there are still some titles from this set that will still be more difficult such as Muleburro and a couple others...
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on November 08, 2020, 05:19:35 AM
Also, is there a reason Gogtter retired all of his PSA sets? Did he get bored being #1 on every one?

Is he selling his Wackys?
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Paul_Maul on November 08, 2020, 06:59:59 AM
Also, is there a reason Gogtter retired all of his PSA sets? Did he get bored being #1 on every one?

Is he selling his Wackys?

He has had some chronic health problems for several years. I donít believe he is selling his 1-16, but I do think he sold his die cuts and back variation sets to Jim.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Paul_Maul on November 08, 2020, 07:01:34 AM
Also, is there a reason Gogtter retired all of his PSA sets? Did he get bored being #1 on every one?

Is he selling his Wackys?

He was never #1 on die cuts or series 1! At least not long term.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Paul_Maul on November 08, 2020, 07:10:16 AM
I see a Sufferin 10 just popped! Eric was a Floral 10 away from having the highest graded example of every 16th, now he needs two!
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on November 08, 2020, 08:16:41 AM
Whoís Jim?

A Chumps 9 also appeared. There were nine when I bought mine, and a tenth just appeared. I suspect more top pop items have likely shown up across the OS, now we just wonder who the culprit is.

I would still like to see the Floral 10, and now this Sufferin ď10Ē.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Mr._Stubble on November 08, 2020, 08:22:41 AM
I would still like to see the Floral 10, and now this Sufferin ď10Ē.

Ever see this one?   ;)

(https://i.postimg.cc/LYxwjYF5/3rd-White-Rice-A-Phoni-PSA-9-Front.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/LYxwjYF5)
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Paul_Maul on November 08, 2020, 10:33:45 AM
Whoís Jim?


Modico, 70topcat
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: jleonard1967 on November 08, 2020, 09:27:44 PM
He has had some chronic health problems for several years. I donít believe he is selling his 1-16, but I do think he sold his die cuts and back variation sets to Jim.
I think Eric ended up with his 1-16 set. I know I obtained some of the shedd's. I know that Mr. Fagen got some of the hostess pairs.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on November 09, 2020, 03:51:03 AM
I didn't know any 3rd white 9's existed. I assume that's your's? Do you have others in the set?

Is there a reason that Eric doesn't allow people to view his sets?
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Mr._Stubble on November 09, 2020, 04:01:16 AM
I didn't know any 3rd white 9's existed. I assume that's your's? Do you have others in the set?

Is there a reason that Eric doesn't allow people to view his sets?

Yup, it's mine and I do have a PSA 7 white Lova also.  Got them in a trade from a Forum member way back when.  PSA goofed-up and put the two specimens in with regular 3rd tan backs in the registry, as Joe L. has pointed out to me recently. 

I'm not much into PSA Wackys, so I know very little about Eric's sets and the PSA Wacky world.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on November 09, 2020, 05:13:31 AM
Yup, it's mine and I do have a PSA 7 white Lova also.  Got them in a trade from a Forum member way back when.  PSA goofed-up and put the two specimens in with regular 3rd tan backs in the registry, as Joe L. has pointed out to me recently. 

I'm not much into PSA Wackys, so I know very little about Eric's sets and the PSA Wacky world.

Sorry, I guess I should have quoted. I was asking Dave or Joe about Eric's sets. But, dang! That would be a nice way to start a set if you collected them. I'm going to look and see if any people have started 3rd white sets on the registry.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Mr._Stubble on November 09, 2020, 05:50:35 AM
But, dang! That would be a nice way to start a set if you collected them. I'm going to look and see if any people have started 3rd white sets on the registry.

I have a couple of complete 3rd white sets and quite a few of those specimens would likely slab fairly well. 

Always looking for good trades though!
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: RawGoo on November 09, 2020, 06:23:32 AM
I have a couple of complete 3rd white sets and quite a few of those specimens would likely slab fairly well. 

Always looking for good trades though!

WOW!!!  I don't think I've ever seen a 3rd white in person, raw or graded!
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on November 09, 2020, 06:31:47 AM
WOW!!!  I don't think I've ever seen a 3rd white in person, raw or graded!

Same, now that I think about it. Of course, I did meet Brute 88 from the forum at a Philly show a year or two back and knowing him for a day, he probably had five of those sets there too.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Mr._Stubble on November 09, 2020, 06:47:40 AM
WOW!!!  I don't think I've ever seen a 3rd white in person, raw or graded!

Well here's the next best thing then - Lova:

(https://i.postimg.cc/w73FR9vg/3rd-White-Lova-PSA-7-Front.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/w73FR9vg)
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: RawGoo on November 09, 2020, 11:11:21 AM
Very nice!  How did you ever end up with multiple sets?
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Mr._Stubble on November 09, 2020, 12:11:23 PM
Very nice!  How did you ever end up with multiple sets?

Years and years of e-bay auctions!

 ;D
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: jleonard1967 on November 09, 2020, 05:16:41 PM
Mel, does have good sets, this I can atest too.  He  has helped me out many times in the past.  Helps we are only 190 miles apart.  Just an afternoon drive in the midwest here!
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Yubum on November 10, 2020, 09:13:14 AM
I have 15 stickers that I *think* are NM or better that I am considering submitting to PSA for grading. I am not currently a PSA member. Any advice re: submitting to get the best value/results?
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Paul_Maul on November 10, 2020, 09:20:04 AM
I have 15 stickers that I *think* are NM or better that I am considering submitting to PSA for grading. I am not currently a PSA member. Any advice re: submitting to get the best value/results?

Itís not really a good time. There are no collectors club memberships with grading vouchers available at this time. Also, the economy service level has been suspended. So if you join PSA (at the silver level - $59 and no vouchers) your options will be:

1. Pay $50 per card
2. Submit at least 20 cards, pay $12 per, and wait literally 4-6 months to get them back.

If they are garden variety wackys, it may not be worth it.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Yubum on November 10, 2020, 10:11:46 AM
Itís not really a good time. There are no collectors club memberships with grading vouchers available at this time. Also, the economy service level has been suspended. So if you join PSA (at the silver level - $59 and no vouchers) your options will be:

1. Pay $50 per card
2. Submit at least 20 cards, pay $12 per, and wait literally 4-6 months to get them back.

If they are garden variety wackys, it may not be worth it.

Thanks for the reply!  :great:

Option #2 sounds far better than option #1. They're 15th series stickers and I also have nice Bum Chex, Grime Heavy, Run Tony, Pupsi and Choke Wagon stickers I would like to get encapsulated. Maybe at some point down the road when submitting conditions improve at PSA I will dig through my 1960 - 70 hockey and baseball cards to see if there are any candidates to add to the submission and make it worthwhile.

Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on November 10, 2020, 10:47:45 AM
Thanks for the reply!  :great:

Option #2 sounds far better than option #1. They're 15th series stickers and I also have nice Bum Chex, Grime Heavy, Run Tony, Pupsi and Choke Wagon stickers I would like to get encapsulated. Maybe at some point down the road when submitting conditions improve at PSA I will dig through my 1960 - 70 hockey and baseball cards to see if there are any candidates to add to the submission and make it worthwhile.

You definitely need to make sure they're worth subbing. I did my first "submission" with Dave (Paul_Maul) a couple years back, and I sent him several cards thinking that they'd be good to sub. I ended up only sending two in by his discretion. I would say that you should only sub if you expect PSA 8 or higher, but with MAG 7 titles you can be a bit more lenient. Especially with Choke Wagon. As far as the 15th Series, I still think it would be smart to sub expecting 8's but I think you're still technically better off with a 15th Series PSA 7 than, say, a 6th Series PSA 7.

If someone else here has something to sub, you could always combine the submission if you didn't have enough cards. Not sure if anyone on here had that plan, however.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Yubum on November 10, 2020, 01:45:19 PM
You definitely need to make sure they're worth subbing. I did my first "submission" with Dave (Paul_Maul) a couple years back, and I sent him several cards thinking that they'd be good to sub. I ended up only sending two in by his discretion. I would say that you should only sub if you expect PSA 8 or higher, but with MAG 7 titles you can be a bit more lenient. Especially with Choke Wagon. As far as the 15th Series, I still think it would be smart to sub expecting 8's but I think you're still technically better off with a 15th Series PSA 7 than, say, a 6th Series PSA 7.

If someone else here has something to sub, you could always combine the submission if you didn't have enough cards. Not sure if anyone on here had that plan, however.

I had to do a forum search to figure out what the heck MAG 7 stood for. Ironically, the answer was in a query you posted asking the exact same question four years ago! And thanks for the reply!
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: vahsurfer on November 10, 2020, 07:24:42 PM
Three of my favorites!
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on November 11, 2020, 03:51:07 AM
Three of my favorites!

What are you referring to?
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: RawGoo on November 11, 2020, 04:05:25 AM
Somehow, my Series 12 set was a 2020 certificate award winner!  Not sure what the criteria are, but cool nonetheless!
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Swiski on November 11, 2020, 04:44:56 AM
I had to do a forum search to figure out what the heck MAG 7 stood for. Ironically, the answer was in a query you posted asking the exact same question four years ago! And thanks for the reply!

OK....I give. What does MAG 7 mean? I did a forum search and only found a MAG 7 reference to "magnificent 7" forum collectors. And a Google search provided a gun called the MAG-7.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Mr._Stubble on November 11, 2020, 04:58:34 AM
OK....I give. What does MAG 7 mean? I did a forum search and only found a MAG 7 reference to "magnificent 7" forum collectors. And a Google search provided a gun called the MAG-7.

Band-ache, Lavirus, Mutt's, Paul Maul, Run Tony, Bum Chex, and Choke Wagon are collectively referred to by some collectors as the Magnificent Seven or MAG-7 for short.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: drono on November 11, 2020, 05:03:58 AM
Why wouldn't there be a MAG-9 that includes Spic and Spill and Grime Heavy? Or even an 11 that includes Oddie Boy and Scoot No Copyright?
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Mr._Stubble on November 11, 2020, 05:18:01 AM
Why wouldn't there be a MAG-9 that includes Spic and Spill and Grime Heavy? Or even an 11 that includes Oddie Boy and Scoot No Copyright?

I imagine because those you mentioned are variations, not pulled titles.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on November 11, 2020, 05:24:25 AM
I believe I was told that some variations were not included because they were either not discovered at the time or they should be omitted (for one reason or another).

Also, congrats on the 2020 award for your Series 12, Pat. I am sure hard work went into getting an award winning set!
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: drono on November 11, 2020, 05:27:39 AM
I imagine because those you mentioned are variations, not pulled titles.

Weren't those four 1st series just one sticker per sheet and not pulled?
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Mr._Stubble on November 11, 2020, 05:31:00 AM
Weren't those four 1st series just one sticker per sheet and not pulled?

Yes you are correct, my mistake...
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: drono on November 11, 2020, 05:36:31 AM
I believe I was told that some variations were not included because they were either not discovered at the time or they should be omitted (for one reason or another).

I'll give you that for Spic, Oddie, and Scoot.  I do believe those variations were discovered much later (along with the Cram die variation), but I think Grime Heavy was discovered early on.  I agree there is a certain "mystique" about the 1st series, being the first series that many of us purchased as kids, never having known about the Die Cuts or Ads.  I would've considered Spic and Grime Heavy more valuable than Paul, Lavirus, and Mutts until much later when the the uncut sheets were discovered to show that each appeared only once and were in fact rarer. 
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Paul_Maul on November 11, 2020, 07:23:05 AM
I thought the Mag 7 was

Band Ache
Run Tony
Spic and Span
Bum Chex
Choke Wagon
Grime Heavy
Pupsi

....and then it became Mag 8 when Scoot N/C was added.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: drono on November 11, 2020, 07:35:22 AM
I thought the Mag 7 was

Band Ache
Run Tony
Spic and Span
Bum Chex
Choke Wagon
Grime Heavy
Pupsi

....and then it became Mag 8 when Scoot N/C was added.

I forgot about Pupsi!  That's the list I seem to remember way back when John Mann's site was the only information on the Internet and Duane Dimock was still making the lost wackys.  My memory is slipping in my old age, but I do remember sending out an e-Christmas Card to fellow collectors with those seven on it  before I left the government in 1988.  It was probably Christmas of 1987 because my department was being moved to the beltway, I wasn't moving and therefore had nothing better to do with most of my time at work.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on November 11, 2020, 08:24:23 AM
I thought the Mag 7 was

Band Ache
Run Tony
Spic and Span
Bum Chex
Choke Wagon
Grime Heavy
Pupsi

....and then it became Mag 8 when Scoot N/C was added.

Yeah, that sounds like it. I thought Spic and Span was on there for sure.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Mr._Stubble on November 11, 2020, 10:03:56 AM
I thought the Mag 7 was

Band Ache
Run Tony
Spic and Span
Bum Chex
Choke Wagon
Grime Heavy
Pupsi

That's them Dave - thank you!
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: jleonard1967 on November 11, 2020, 08:33:38 PM
Somehow, my Series 12 set was a 2020 certificate award winner!  Not sure what the criteria are, but cool nonetheless!
You had the highest graded set at the cut off date in May.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: RawGoo on November 11, 2020, 10:24:19 PM
You had the highest graded set at the cut off date in May.

Thanks!  I'm third now, so I was a little confused.  At least it happened for me once!!
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on November 12, 2020, 02:41:19 AM
I think the later series are the only ones where you have a chance at #1. Looking at the first couple series, Eric Roberts seems to have the foothold. Same with the 16th.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on November 16, 2020, 05:04:26 AM
I haven't gotten around to posting it, but I recently acquired a Cover Ghoul PSA 8...
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: bandaches on November 16, 2020, 07:55:39 AM
I thought the Mag 7 was

Band Ache
Run Tony
Spic and Span
Bum Chex
Choke Wagon
Grime Heavy
Pupsi

....and then it became Mag 8 when Scoot N/C was added.
You are exactly correct.  There were like 10 of us collectors who named the mag 7 at the time, Scott B, John M, me, Jeff W, Jeff M, Dennis W(corrected), Scot L, Dave G, Brian L all trading and trying to collude to hold prices down on ebay with yielding to each other which of course was a disaster.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Yubum on November 16, 2020, 07:56:52 AM
I haven't gotten around to posting it, but I recently acquired a Cover Ghoul PSA 8...

Congrats. I also recently added two PSA 8 stickers to my middlin' 15th series set - Catgobite Detergent and Smell Motor Oil. Bought both from the eBay. Quick question - is Rob from eBay store inlineonlinecollectables a member of this forum?
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Paul_Maul on November 16, 2020, 08:49:17 AM
I haven't gotten around to posting it, but I recently acquired a Cover Ghoul PSA 8...

5th or 1st? 🤔
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Paul_Maul on November 16, 2020, 08:49:59 AM
Congrats. I also recently added two PSA 8 stickers to my middlin' 15th series set - Catgobite Detergent and Smell Motor Oil. Bought both from the eBay. Quick question - is Rob from eBay store inlineonlinecollectables a member of this forum?

No. He isnít specifically a wacky collector, he collects tons of other non sports sets as well.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on November 16, 2020, 08:57:21 AM
Congrats. I also recently added two PSA 8 stickers to my middlin' 15th series set - Catgobite Detergent and Smell Motor Oil. Bought both from the eBay. Quick question - is Rob from eBay store inlineonlinecollectables a member of this forum?

Thanks. Do you have your set in the registry? And, I don't think he is on the forum. In case you didn't know, he is "ghosts1157" on the registry.

For example, here's a link to my 5th Series: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/non-sports/company-sets/1974-topps-wacky-packages-series-5-basic/publishedset/278753 (https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/non-sports/company-sets/1974-topps-wacky-packages-series-5-basic/publishedset/278753)

Edit: It's a 5th Series Cover Ghoul.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: drono on November 16, 2020, 09:10:44 AM
You are exactly correct.  There were like 10 of us collectors who named the mag 7 at the time, Scott B, John M, me, Jeff W, Jeff M, David W, Scot L, Dave G, Brian L all trading and trying to collude to hold prices down on ebay with yielding to each other which of course was a disaster.

I'm the missing 10th in the list, and collude is such an ugly word.  Why don't we say, not compete against each other to drive up the prices.  Ah, the good old days.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Yubum on November 16, 2020, 10:06:22 AM
Thanks. Do you have your set in the registry? And, I don't think he is on the forum. In case you didn't know, he is "ghosts1157" on the registry.

For example, here's a link to my 5th Series: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/non-sports/company-sets/1974-topps-wacky-packages-series-5-basic/publishedset/278753 (https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/non-sports/company-sets/1974-topps-wacky-packages-series-5-basic/publishedset/278753)

Edit: It's a 5th Series Cover Ghoul.

No, haven't even thought about joining the registry yet. Like I said, my 15th series set is middlin' at best with only eight graded cards - all PSA 8.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: faustxxx on November 16, 2020, 10:49:52 AM
What is a good price on a Dr.Ono PSA 10?
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: bandaches on November 16, 2020, 10:52:45 AM
I'm the missing 10th in the list, and collude is such an ugly word.  Why don't we say, not compete against each other to drive up the prices.  Ah, the good old days.
LOL, no I am an idiot, I have you listed as David W, I will fix it
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: drono on November 16, 2020, 11:53:24 AM
LOL, no I am an idiot, I have you listed as David W, I will fix it

Too funny!  My father-in-law accidentally had David and Lisa printed on the napkins for our wedding.  She used to date a David, and it didn't end well, so she's glad the mistake was caught before they were put on the tables.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Paul_Maul on November 16, 2020, 01:18:47 PM
What is a good price on a Dr.Ono PSA 10?

Probably $300-350 I would estimate.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: faustxxx on November 16, 2020, 01:49:45 PM
Thanks Paul Maul.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on November 16, 2020, 01:58:50 PM
No, haven't even thought about joining the registry yet. Like I said, my 15th series set is middlin' at best with only eight graded cards - all PSA 8.

I have a 2nd, 6th, and 7th sets with 1 title per. I have unpublished the 6th and 7ths (never formally started the 2nd) but I donít think thereís a reason not to start a set in the registry with eight titles. Itís up to you, of course, but why not? I went a fair bit without eight titles in my 5th series, and of course itís my most populous now but thatís somewhat irrelevant.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: bandaches on November 17, 2020, 04:50:42 AM
Too funny!  My father-in-law accidentally had David and Lisa printed on the napkins for our wedding.  She used to date a David, and it didn't end well, so she's glad the mistake was caught before they were put on the tables.
wow, ex boyfriend name on wedding napkins!
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Yubum on November 17, 2020, 10:38:38 AM
I have a 2nd, 6th, and 7th sets with 1 title per. I have unpublished the 6th and 7ths (never formally started the 2nd) but I donít think thereís a reason not to start a set in the registry with eight titles. Itís up to you, of course, but why not? I went a fair bit without eight titles in my 5th series, and of course itís my most populous now but thatís somewhat irrelevant.

Do you need a PSA membership to start a set on the registry?
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on November 17, 2020, 12:46:02 PM
Do you need a PSA membership to start a set on the registry?

Nope.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Yubum on November 17, 2020, 12:58:44 PM
Nope.

I figured it out - I'm in!  8)
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Paul_Maul on November 17, 2020, 01:26:32 PM
I figured it out - I'm in!  8)

Welcome aboard! Iíd be number 1 on the 15ths if I could only complete the set. Same for 11th... 😂
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: faustxxx on November 17, 2020, 11:19:13 PM
Does anyone know who owns the PSA10 of Hurts 2nd series tan back? Looking to trade for my 10 3rd series Dr.Ono.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on November 18, 2020, 02:34:19 AM
Does anyone know who owns the PSA10 of Hurts 2nd series tan back? Looking to trade for my 10 3rd series Dr.Ono.

Iím not sure, but assuming itís someone to the tune of Eric Roberts, Iíd give you fat chance. Iíd also say that Hurts is a tougher title alone, let alone being a tan back as well.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: jleonard1967 on November 18, 2020, 04:27:51 AM
Welcome aboard! Iíd be number 1 on the 15ths if I could only complete the set. Same for 11th... 😂
Your sets are a labour of love as you don't just look at the grade but at the overall appearance of the card.  I am sure you could have picked up many a card, but you turned it down for one reason or another.  I know when I have obtained cards from you that they are on the higher end of that grades spectrum.  Yours truly is an awesome collection. 
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: jleonard1967 on November 18, 2020, 04:29:03 AM
Does anyone know who owns the PSA10 of Hurts 2nd series tan back? Looking to trade for my 10 3rd series Dr.Ono.
What is your PSA registry name?
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: RawGoo on November 18, 2020, 04:30:42 AM
Your sets are a labour of love as you don't just look at the grade but at the overall appearance of the card.  I am sure you could have picked up many a card, but you turned it down for one reason or another.  I know when I have obtained cards from you that they are on the higher end of that grades spectrum.  Yours truly is an awesome collection.

I completely agree!
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: jleonard1967 on November 18, 2020, 05:20:07 AM
Does anyone know who owns the PSA10 of Hurts 2nd series tan back? Looking to trade for my 10 3rd series Dr.Ono.
Most of Mike Blocks retired collection went to Eric.  You will never see those cards again, he just doesn't really sell his cards. (unless he upgraded, but you really can't upgrade a 10)
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on November 18, 2020, 12:11:48 PM
I figured it out - I'm in!  8)

Awesome, by the way. Looks like a nice start to your 15th Series. Good luck (Especially with Jerkitol).
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Yubum on November 18, 2020, 12:35:48 PM
Awesome, by the way. Looks like a nice start to your 15th Series. Good luck (Especially with Jerkitol).

Thanks! Based on a quick peek at the pop report l guessed Jerkitol would be harder to find in PSA 8. I'm guessing I can also add Earth Barn Shampoo, Electric Slave, Famous Mobsters, Fang Edward, Hacks and Petley Flea Bags to the list.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: bandaches on November 18, 2020, 01:44:24 PM
Iím not sure, but assuming itís someone to the tune of Eric Roberts, Iíd give you fat chance. Iíd also say that Hurts is a tougher title alone, let alone being a tan back as well.
Why would Hurts be tougher than Dr Ono when Dr Ono is a pulled title?  I have 23 Tan Hurts and 13 Dr Onos.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: bandaches on November 18, 2020, 03:28:24 PM
Does anyone know who owns the PSA10 of Hurts 2nd series tan back? Looking to trade for my 10 3rd series Dr.Ono.
Eric already has PSA 10 Dr Ono and Hurts tan.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on November 19, 2020, 02:48:41 AM
Why would Hurts be tougher than Dr Ono when Dr Ono is a pulled title?  I have 23 Tan Hurts and 13 Dr Onos.

In high grade, I see Hurts being tougher on centering (especially being a tan back) than Dr. Ono. I donít even see how Dr. Ono being a pulled title makes it that much more expensive, itís worth a couple dollars more. It is no Choke Wagon.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Paul_Maul on November 19, 2020, 05:38:31 AM
Hurts is tougher because of the very thin borders. And as usual, no one is saying it is tougher to find, just tougher to get a high PSA grade.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: bandaches on November 19, 2020, 05:42:22 PM
Hurts is tougher because of the very thin borders. And as usual, no one is saying it is tougher to find, just tougher to get a high PSA grade.
As usual?  I do laugh at the concept of thinner borders being tougher on centering....a title is either centered or it is not regardless of the borders.  One could argue the lack of centering is less obvious with wider borders but it doesn't change the facts around the centering and competent grading would find off centering whether obvious or not.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: bandaches on November 19, 2020, 05:48:09 PM
In high grade, I see Hurts being tougher on centering (especially being a tan back) than Dr. Ono. I donít even see how Dr. Ono being a pulled title makes it that much more expensive, itís worth a couple dollars more. It is no Choke Wagon.
I don't recall anyone saying "that much more expensive" but nonetheless, as you said, it is worth a few bucks more.  My collection accumulating was someone non discriminative and the ratios I have seem to exactly match the perceive rarities and title counts from sheets.  I have 23 tan Hurts and 13 Dr Onos so at least I am basing my statement on some empirical evidence. 
Other than the "first card in set" suffering from rubber band bends theory I believe all cards have equal chances for wear and tear and I maintain there is no basis to think with proper competent grading, Hurts tans are less likely to be found in PSA10.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Paul_Maul on November 19, 2020, 08:48:23 PM
I don't recall anyone saying "that much more expensive" but nonetheless, as you said, it is worth a few bucks more.  My collection accumulating was someone non discriminative and the ratios I have seem to exactly match the perceive rarities and title counts from sheets.  I have 23 tan Hurts and 13 Dr Onos so at least I am basing my statement on some empirical evidence. 
Other than the "first card in set" suffering from rubber band bends theory I believe all cards have equal chances for wear and tear and I maintain there is no basis to think with proper competent grading, Hurts tans are less likely to be found in PSA10.

If there is less border space, there is more sensitivity. 50/50 will become 75/25 with less movement of the sheet if there is less border space to start with.

But if you want empirical evidence, there have been 55 Hurts tans submitted, with 5 PSA 9s and 1 PSA 10.

There have been 100 Onos submitted with 13 PSA 9s and 4 PSA 10s. That is fairly compelling evidence that for whatever reason, Hurts tan is the tougher high grade card.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: bandaches on November 19, 2020, 09:17:46 PM
If there is less border space, there is more sensitivity. 50/50 will become 75/25 with less movement of the sheet if there is less border space to start with.

But if you want empirical evidence, there have been 55 Hurts tans submitted, with 5 PSA 9s and 1 PSA 10.

There have been 100 Onos submitted with 13 PSA 9s and 4 PSA 10s. That is fairly compelling evidence that for whatever reason, Hurts tan is the tougher high grade card.
You have highlighted again the ridiculousness of the grading process.  75/25 is 75/25 regardless of borders. If a card is off center, it is off center.  The copyright positioning should dictate the centering not the width of borders.  In terms of empirical evidence, that merely highlights more people have submitted Dr Ono which is perceived to be the more valuable card in hopes to get a good grade.    80 Ajerx whites were submitted with 1 PSA 10s, so now Ajerx wider border is suddenly harder to find in PSA 10 than Hurts narrow borders?   It is a fact that there are fewer Dr Onos in the wild per it being pulled yet it is one of the most submitted series 3 cards....proves my point, people are chasing high grade on a perceived rare card.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on November 20, 2020, 02:20:13 AM
I don't recall anyone saying "that much more expensive" but nonetheless, as you said, it is worth a few bucks more.  My collection accumulating was someone non discriminative and the ratios I have seem to exactly match the perceive rarities and title counts from sheets.  I have 23 tan Hurts and 13 Dr Onos so at least I am basing my statement on some empirical evidence. 
Other than the "first card in set" suffering from rubber band bends theory I believe all cards have equal chances for wear and tear and I maintain there is no basis to think with proper competent grading, Hurts tans are less likely to be found in PSA10.

Not all cards have equal chance for centering issues, however. 8-lives? Clammy? Muleburro? Choke Wagon? Now, lets compare those to Heave Cigarettes, for one. Clearly, that title is one of the easiest in the original series and the others I mentioned are some of the most difficult. They are not equally distributed in high grade.

I donít understand your point. I said Hurts was tougher in high grade than Dr. Ono and ratios per grade can prove that. Thereís ~1:2 Hurts Tan PSA 10ís/Dr. Ono PSA 10ís. Allowing room for error, that one Hurts may not even be deserving of that ten. But, with four Dr. Onos, I would like to believe confidence would allow one definite ten. Even with more submitted Dr. Onos, I still donít think it changes the fact that Hurts as a tan back is tougher.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: bandaches on November 20, 2020, 04:41:32 AM
Not all cards have equal chance for centering issues, however. 8-lives? Clammy? Muleburro? Choke Wagon? Now, lets compare those to Heave Cigarettes, for one. Clearly, that title is one of the easiest in the original series and the others I mentioned are some of the most difficult. They are not equally distributed in high grade.

I donít understand your point. I said Hurts was tougher in high grade than Dr. Ono and ratios per grade can prove that. Thereís ~1:2 Hurts Tan PSA 10ís/Dr. Ono PSA 10ís. Allowing room for error, that one Hurts may not even be deserving of that ten. But, with four Dr. Onos, I would like to believe confidence would allow one definite ten. Even with more submitted Dr. Onos, I still donít think it changes the fact that Hurts as a tan back is tougher.
You have no data that says the reason the 54 other Hurts didn't get PSA 10 was due to centering.  Dave's empirical evidence actually proves nothing.  62% of Dr Ono's submitted are PSA8 and higher, 50% of Hurts tan are PSA8 or higher.  Given the sample size is 100 or less for each and you have no data that indicates the REASON for the grade, you have no evidence the centering is a factor.  Again, I get it, from an eye appeal point of view, thin border off center is more obvious but stop claiming that defines centering because it shouldn't.  If a Dr Ono is off center by 10% so its copyright is shifted to the right by 10%, then it is 10% plain and simple.  If a Hurts if off center by 10% and its expected copyright placement is off center by 10% but that wipes out half the thin border, it is off center by 10%!!!  If you guys are claiming the hurts will be graded as something worse than 10% due to the % of border shift then you proved my point, grading is a crock. 
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on November 20, 2020, 06:45:23 AM
You have no data that says the reason the 54 other Hurts didn't get PSA 10 was due to centering.  Dave's empirical evidence actually proves nothing.  62% of Dr Ono's submitted are PSA8 and higher, 50% of Hurts tan are PSA8 or higher.  Given the sample size is 100 or less for each and you have no data that indicates the REASON for the grade, you have no evidence the centering is a factor.  Again, I get it, from an eye appeal point of view, thin border off center is more obvious but stop claiming that defines centering because it shouldn't.  If a Dr Ono is off center by 10% so its copyright is shifted to the right by 10%, then it is 10% plain and simple.  If a Hurts if off center by 10% and its expected copyright placement is off center by 10% but that wipes out half the thin border, it is off center by 10%!!!  If you guys are claiming the hurts will be graded as something worse than 10% due to the % of border shift then you proved my point, grading is a crock.

I never said centering was the grade itself, I said that Hurts was more difficult in high grade, bar none. You gave the empirical evidence.

"62% of Dr Ono's submitted are PSA8 and higher, 50% of Hurts tan are PSA8 or higher"

This is proving that Dr. Ono's are more likely in high grade and I would like to believe that 12% is beyond the margin of error.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on November 20, 2020, 09:00:45 AM
Two recent pickups...

(https://i.postimg.cc/T181564p/S5-Big-Baddy.jpg) (https://i.postimg.cc/T181564p/S5-Big-Baddy.jpg/) (https://i.postimg.cc/kGx4xp0w/S5-Cover-Ghoul.jpg) (https://i.postimg.cc/kGx4xp0w/S5-Cover-Ghoul.jpg/)
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: bandaches on November 20, 2020, 09:55:04 AM
I never said centering was the grade itself, I said that Hurts was more difficult in high grade, bar none. You gave the empirical evidence.

"62% of Dr Ono's submitted are PSA8 and higher, 50% of Hurts tan are PSA8 or higher"

This is proving that Dr. Ono's are more likely in high grade and I would like to believe that 12% is beyond the margin of error.
LOL no it doesn't. I am not going to go into a full explanation of how statistics work here and when you decide you have meaningful results based on sample size.  Please offer me as many Dr Onos that you can I will trade you my tan Hurts.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Paul_Maul on November 20, 2020, 10:11:51 AM
(https://i.postimg.cc/PxbMz5qW/BE24-ED9-C-E83-D-4-CDD-AE5-A-A4-BC2-DE05-A91.jpg)
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: bandaches on November 20, 2020, 10:27:16 AM
(https://i.postimg.cc/PxbMz5qW/BE24-ED9-C-E83-D-4-CDD-AE5-A-A4-BC2-DE05-A91.jpg)
I agreed already that the VISUAL impact is more but the CENTERING impact is the same!!!  You just proved to me that the whole grading process is the crock I thought it was.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Paul_Maul on November 20, 2020, 10:39:44 AM
I agreed already that the VISUAL impact is more but the CENTERING impact is the same!!!  You just proved to me that the whole grading process is the crock I thought it was.

You are certainly entitled to make up your own definition of centering, but yours is not the one used by card collectors. Centering is defined as what percentage of the total border width is on each side. That is impacted more severely for a card with thinner borders.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: faustxxx on November 20, 2020, 10:43:38 AM
You are certainly entitled to make up your own definition of centering, but yours is not the one used by card collectors.
  I agree, There is an example of a 10 on Ebay right now that is tragically off center: 1966 Make Your Own Name Stickers #24, I give it a 60/40 at best, never would I touch that.  I also collect coins and in the numismatic world that would justify a "coffin slab". It is dead to a true collector seeking only perfect graded items.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on November 20, 2020, 10:48:51 AM
LOL no it doesn't. I am not going to go into a full explanation of how statistics work here and when you decide you have meaningful results based on sample size.  Please offer me as many Dr Onos that you can I will trade you my tan Hurts.

Here you are again, skewing the difference between rarity as a title and rarity in high grade.

I never once said that Dr. Ono was more common than a tanback Hurts, so this statement: "Please offer me as many Dr Onos that you can I will trade you my tan Hurts." is completely trivial to the debate.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: drono on November 20, 2020, 11:43:47 AM
Would you stop talking about me.  I know that I tend to be off-center!  My ears have been burning for days now.   :'(
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: bandaches on November 20, 2020, 04:10:43 PM
You are certainly entitled to make up your own definition of centering, but yours is not the one used by card collectors. Centering is defined as what percentage of the total border width is on each side. That is impacted more severely for a card with thinner borders.
I had no idea that all this time you guys were collecting eye appeal perfection and not actually card perfection.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: bandaches on November 20, 2020, 04:11:21 PM
  I agree, There is an example of a 10 on Ebay right now that is tragically off center: 1966 Make Your Own Name Stickers #24, I give it a 60/40 at best, never would I touch that.  I also collect coins and in the numismatic world that would justify a "coffin slab". It is dead to a true collector seeking only perfect graded items.
Sounds like the number of examples of nonsensical PSA grading is quite large.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: bandaches on November 20, 2020, 04:14:20 PM
Here you are again, skewing the difference between rarity as a title and rarity in high grade.

I never once said that Dr. Ono was more common than a tanback Hurts, so this statement: "Please offer me as many Dr Onos that you can I will trade you my tan Hurts." is completely trivial to the debate.
The sample size and numerical differences in the number of PSA 10s of Tan Hurts and Dr Ono statistically indicate nothing and do nothing to support a theory that the thin borders are the reason for Tan Hurts having only the 1 PSA 10. 
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: bandaches on November 20, 2020, 04:37:07 PM
  I agree, There is an example of a 10 on Ebay right now that is tragically off center: 1966 Make Your Own Name Stickers #24, I give it a 60/40 at best, never would I touch that.  I also collect coins and in the numismatic world that would justify a "coffin slab". It is dead to a true collector seeking only perfect graded items.
60/40 is acceptable for PSA 10
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on November 20, 2020, 06:07:45 PM
The sample size and numerical differences in the number of PSA 10s of Tan Hurts and Dr Ono statistically indicate nothing and do nothing to support a theory that the thin borders are the reason for Tan Hurts having only the 1 PSA 10.

I donít even understand the argument at this point. I donít think I ever stated that as a claim.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: bandaches on November 20, 2020, 09:01:42 PM
I donít even understand the argument at this point. I donít think I ever stated that as a claim.
This is your exact statement, really wasn't hard to dig up:
"In high grade, I see Hurts being tougher on centering (especially being a tan back) than Dr. Ono. I donít even see how Dr. Ono being a pulled title makes it that much more expensive, itís worth a couple dollars more. It is no Choke Wagon"

Hurts is tougher on centering from a grading point of view because of the arbitrariness as Dave pointed out that a Hurts and Dr Ono with EXACT same cutting would result in the grading world thinking the Hurts is more off center.  Why you think the tan back would impact centering is beyond me.   I tried to explain to you that the PSA population guide indicating there are fewer Hurts 10's is not actually proof of anything given the small sample size and no details provided on why a title got a 9 vs 10 but that conversation is clearly not fruitful here.

PSA 10 allows for 60/40 centering which Faustxx highlighted is a crock so in the end you are right that a Hurts 10 would be harder to get than a Dr Ono 10 due to grading being focused on eye appeal(borders width) and not actually on the pristineness of the correct cut.  If grading was based consistently on the cut, there is an equal chance that Dr Ono wouldn't be cut perfectly just like Hurts ie or equal chance of the exact cut in Dave's example.

All of this revalidated for me why I never considered collecting PSA graded cards nor will I ever and 100% of the time when I get one, I will sell it. 

In terms of Dr Ono rarity itself, it is a 3rd row sticker that was pulled, it is a fact there are far less Dr Ono's than most of the rest of series 3 and I am certain there are fewer Dr Ono's than Hurts tans so again if grading was focused on the cut and not eye appeal of border widths, clearly there would be fewer Dr Ono 10s because there are fewer Dr Ono's in existence.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on November 24, 2020, 06:49:57 AM
This is your exact statement, really wasn't hard to dig up:
"In high grade, I see Hurts being tougher on centering (especially being a tan back) than Dr. Ono. I donít even see how Dr. Ono being a pulled title makes it that much more expensive, itís worth a couple dollars more. It is no Choke Wagon"

Hurts is tougher on centering from a grading point of view because of the arbitrariness as Dave pointed out that a Hurts and Dr Ono with EXACT same cutting would result in the grading world thinking the Hurts is more off center.  Why you think the tan back would impact centering is beyond me.   I tried to explain to you that the PSA population guide indicating there are fewer Hurts 10's is not actually proof of anything given the small sample size and no details provided on why a title got a 9 vs 10 but that conversation is clearly not fruitful here.

PSA 10 allows for 60/40 centering which Faustxx highlighted is a crock so in the end you are right that a Hurts 10 would be harder to get than a Dr Ono 10 due to grading being focused on eye appeal(borders width) and not actually on the pristineness of the correct cut.  If grading was based consistently on the cut, there is an equal chance that Dr Ono wouldn't be cut perfectly just like Hurts ie or equal chance of the exact cut in Dave's example.

All of this revalidated for me why I never considered collecting PSA graded cards nor will I ever and 100% of the time when I get one, I will sell it. 

In terms of Dr Ono rarity itself, it is a 3rd row sticker that was pulled, it is a fact there are far less Dr Ono's than most of the rest of series 3 and I am certain there are fewer Dr Ono's than Hurts tans so again if grading was focused on the cut and not eye appeal of border widths, clearly there would be fewer Dr Ono 10s because there are fewer Dr Ono's in existence.

"...grading being focused on eye appeal(borders width) and not actually on the pristineness of the correct cut."

Are you suggesting a Clammy could be a PSA 10 with perfect centering even with part of Baby Runt's border on the card? How about Choke King's tilt?

It seems to me that the 60/40 is relational to the border space on the card rather than a universally. With less border space on the Hurts, even slight movement of the image to one side will make the proportion more skewed in juxtaposition to the card as a whole because of the lack of border space. This makes the 60/40 rarer.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: jleonard1967 on November 24, 2020, 08:21:19 AM
great point on the clammy.  that frustrates me that to get a higher grade you have to have another cards border on yours for centering.  Grading really satisfies the OCD collector and then just to mess with you they add the cards that National spittoon mentioned
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: bandaches on November 25, 2020, 02:32:34 PM
"...grading being focused on eye appeal(borders width) and not actually on the pristineness of the correct cut."

Are you suggesting a Clammy could be a PSA 10 with perfect centering even with part of Baby Runt's border on the card? How about Choke King's tilt?

It seems to me that the 60/40 is relational to the border space on the card rather than a universally. With less border space on the Hurts, even slight movement of the image to one side will make the proportion more skewed in juxtaposition to the card as a whole because of the lack of border space. This makes the 60/40 rarer.
Where did you read that I suggested a miscut card would be PSA 10?  If topps intent is to cut cards so the cards overlap then that is a perfect cut.  Obvious that is not the case so your suggesting is ridiculous.  This conversation is going nowhere, obviously I can't convince you that the thin border impact is eye appeal based regardless of whether it is the industry standard.    This will be my last attempt, let's assume a card with perfect centering has 1 cm border and another has 2 cm border.  BOTH are miscut by .5 cm.  The industry standard is to declare the 1 cm border card is more offcenter.  It is flat out wrong...but the eye appeal is much worse on the 1 cm card, I get it, grading is on eye appeal.  Call it what it is.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: bandaches on November 25, 2020, 02:37:27 PM
great point on the clammy.  that frustrates me that to get a higher grade you have to have another cards border on yours for centering.  Grading really satisfies the OCD collector and then just to mess with you they add the cards that National spittoon mentioned
I disagree, a perfectly cut Clammy has thinner border on top than bottom per the intent in cutting the sheet. IF the grading world has created some other rule for that to be perfect...oh well...
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: ToadallyDude on November 25, 2020, 05:26:25 PM
Yay!  "Minutiae" is still alive in Wackys!  It's like reading an argument from 1998!

(Anyone know why PSA didn't bother putting the series# on the Cover Ghoul & put 'green bottle' instead?  Sounds really unofficial & lacking the more important info).
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: bandaches on November 26, 2020, 03:24:53 AM
Yay!  "Minutiae" is still alive in Wackys!  It's like reading an argument from 1998!

(Anyone know why PSA didn't bother putting the series# on the Cover Ghoul & put 'green bottle' instead?  Sounds really unofficial & lacking the more important info).
Psa is in no way shape or form experts in the stuff they grade.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Bigmuc13 on November 27, 2020, 10:36:03 AM
Two recent pickups...

(https://i.postimg.cc/T181564p/S5-Big-Baddy.jpg) (https://i.postimg.cc/T181564p/S5-Big-Baddy.jpg/) (https://i.postimg.cc/kGx4xp0w/S5-Cover-Ghoul.jpg) (https://i.postimg.cc/kGx4xp0w/S5-Cover-Ghoul.jpg/)
I don't ever send stuff to get graded, but I am having a hard time finding flaws with that Big Baddy.  Should be at least a 9.  Did they say what was wrong with it to make it only an 8?
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on November 29, 2020, 05:52:48 AM
I don't ever send stuff to get graded, but I am having a hard time finding flaws with that Big Baddy.  Should be at least a 9.  Did they say what was wrong with it to make it only an 8?

If that's what you're asking, I didn't send it in. So, I don't know what the grader knocked points off for. The centering is good, sharp corners; it's glossy.

The only thing that they may have taken a point off for was these printing marks above the first D in Baddy when holding it horizontally. You can slightly see it in the picture. I don't really feel like PSA crucifies you for this sort of thing, and visually it doesn't really bother me as it isn't very noticeable.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on December 04, 2020, 11:34:44 AM
Last two recent acquisitions... (had trouble getting good images)

(https://i.postimg.cc/y6Fgg1q0/6-Slum-Maid.jpg) (https://i.postimg.cc/y6Fgg1q0/6-Slum-Maid.jpg/) (https://i.postimg.cc/J4Myjfmv/S4-Mustard-Charge.jpg) (https://i.postimg.cc/J4Myjfmv/S4-Mustard-Charge.jpg/)
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Yubum on December 04, 2020, 01:46:06 PM
Two new additions to my 15th series set.


(https://i.postimg.cc/SYNyKVMN/HACKS.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/SYNyKVMN)


(https://i.postimg.cc/9r0m582L/HAMEL.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/9r0m582L)



Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: bandaches on December 04, 2020, 02:01:47 PM
If that's what you're asking, I didn't send it in. So, I don't know what the grader knocked points off for. The centering is good, sharp corners; it's glossy.

The only thing that they may have taken a point off for was these printing marks above the first D in Baddy when holding it horizontally. You can slightly see it in the picture. I don't really feel like PSA crucifies you for this sort of thing, and visually it doesn't really bother me as it isn't very noticeable.
When does PSA randomly decide to O/C qualify versus lowering the grade on centering?  A guy just posted some PSA9's on facebook with O/C qualifiers which I hear kills the value of the card yet the centering is similar to your PSA8 Cover Ghoul.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: bandaches on December 04, 2020, 02:02:35 PM
Last two recent acquisitions... (had trouble getting good images)

(https://i.postimg.cc/y6Fgg1q0/6-Slum-Maid.jpg) (https://i.postimg.cc/y6Fgg1q0/6-Slum-Maid.jpg/) (https://i.postimg.cc/J4Myjfmv/S4-Mustard-Charge.jpg) (https://i.postimg.cc/J4Myjfmv/S4-Mustard-Charge.jpg/)
that is a super sweet Mustard Charge!
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on December 05, 2020, 08:50:52 AM
You can request no qualifiers and the card will lower two grades. So, the PSA 9 (OC) cards are essentially 7ís. Those cards might have other issues, who knows, but Iím not here saying PSA is consistent on these entirely.

And, thanks. The Mustard Charge is nicely centered, really like it. I only wish it was glossy.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Paul_Maul on December 05, 2020, 09:52:21 AM
You can request no qualifiers and the card will lower two grades. So, the PSA 9 (OC) cards are essentially 7ís. Those cards might have other issues, who knows, but Iím not here saying PSA is consistent on these entirely.

And, thanks. The Mustard Charge is nicely centered, really like it. I only wish it was glossy.

4th glossies arenít very common unfortunately. I think I only had two or three in my pre-PSA keeper set as opposed to the 5ths which I think were the majority in my set. And I donít think Iíve ever owned a single 6th glossy.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: bandaches on December 05, 2020, 10:39:53 AM
You can request no qualifiers and the card will lower two grades. So, the PSA 9 (OC) cards are essentially 7ís. Those cards might have other issues, who knows, but Iím not here saying PSA is consistent on these entirely.

And, thanks. The Mustard Charge is nicely centered, really like it. I only wish it was glossy.
I wouldn't swear the glossy, so many mustard charges look awful, yours is awesome!  I wonder why July of 1975 was picked as the expiration date.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: bandaches on December 05, 2020, 10:43:08 AM
You can request no qualifiers and the card will lower two grades. So, the PSA 9 (OC) cards are essentially 7ís. Those cards might have other issues, who knows, but Iím not here saying PSA is consistent on these entirely.

And, thanks. The Mustard Charge is nicely centered, really like it. I only wish it was glossy.
Clearly part of the reason your Cover Ghould was not higher than 8 is the centering so this could have been a PSA 10 o/c?  Hopefully you are seeing why PSA grading especially around centering is a charade.  When does centering drop a card one grade and when does it fall into o/c?
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: bandaches on December 05, 2020, 10:48:18 AM
also what is up with the half grades?  PSA 6.5?  Really? 
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: bigtomi on December 05, 2020, 01:41:13 PM
also what is up with the half grades?  PSA 6.5?  Really?
Grader was named Charlie Brown...wishy-washy.  Or was just a male: couldn't commit to 6 nor 7.  lol
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: jleonard1967 on December 05, 2020, 10:10:11 PM
Clearly part of the reason your Cover Ghould was not higher than 8 is the centering so this could have been a PSA 10 o/c?  Hopefully you are seeing why PSA grading especially around centering is a charade.  When does centering drop a card one grade and when does it fall into o/c?
There can be a 9(OC) but not a 10 (OC)
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: bandaches on December 06, 2020, 04:18:15 AM
There can be a 9(OC) but not a 10 (OC)
That's crazy!   A card can be a perfect 9 except where centering is removed from the grade and instead is indicated by o/c
 but can't be a perfect 10 in the same manner?
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: jleonard1967 on December 06, 2020, 09:37:54 PM
That's crazy!   A card can be a perfect 9 except where centering is removed from the grade and instead is indicated by o/c
 but can't be a perfect 10 in the same manner?
I think to get a 10 can have no more than 55/45  (75/25 reverse) a 9 is 60/40 to 65/35 (90 /10 reverse)
(OC) (off center) When the centering of the card falls below the Minimum standards for that grade will be designated "OC" PSA determines centering by comparing the measurements of the borders from left to right and top to bottom.  The. centering is designated as the percent of the difference to the most off center part of the card.  A 5% leeway is given to the front centering minimum standards for cards which grade NM 7 or better.  For example, a card which meets all of the other requirements for PSA MINT 9 and measures 60/40 off center on the front automatically meets the requirements for Mint 9.  If a card meets all of the other requirements for PSA MINT 9 and measures 65/35 off center on the front, it may be deemed to meet the PSA front centering for Mint 9 if the eye appeal of card is good.  (copied word for word from PSA)
so how I read it, if it is within the 5% tolerance you will get the (OC) designation if all other aspects are nice.  Or one grade lower with no designation?
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: bandaches on December 06, 2020, 09:54:35 PM
I think to get a 10 can have no more than 55/45  (75/25 reverse) a 9 is 60/40 to 65/35 (90 /10 reverse)
(OC) (off center) When the centering of the card falls below the Minimum standards for that grade will be designated "OC" PSA determines centering by comparing the measurements of the borders from left to right and top to bottom.  The. centering is designated as the percent of the difference to the most off center part of the card.  A 5% leeway is given to the front centering minimum standards for cards which grade NM 7 or better.  For example, a card which meets all of the other requirements for PSA MINT 9 and measures 60/40 off center on the front automatically meets the requirements for Mint 9.  If a card meets all of the other requirements for PSA MINT 9 and measures 65/35 off center on the front, it may be deemed to meet the PSA front centering for Mint 9 if the eye appeal of card is good.  (copied word for word from PSA)
so how I read it, if it is within the 5% tolerance you will get the (OC) designation if all other aspects are nice.  Or one grade lower with no designation?
This is completely crazy and random either the centering meets the requirements for PSA9 or it doesn't.  The whole qualifier thing is just a gimmick just like 1/2 point grades, PSA needs to rid both.  PSA lost its way and now is owned by a private collector who is clearly going to rig the setup based on his collecting needs.  Separation of powers should be the rule here and a grading company should be separated from collecting but since this is not truly a regulatory task such as financial auditing, there really are no rules, it is purely capitalism. 
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: jleonard1967 on December 07, 2020, 06:05:22 AM
The Main business at collectors universe is PCGS.  The coin division is the main company.  PSA  came later to the table.  Right now the board of directors are mostly coin collectors.  PCGS in its field is rated one of the top grading companies.  I truly do not think that going private is going to set it up for rampant fraud.  700 million is a lot to spend just to get better grades on a card.  Without the trust of the people (the collectors) you have no company.  I truly feel that the new ownership will take collectors universe to a new level and then they will take it public again.  Being private allows the company to grow without having to answer to shareholders.  Therefore the 700 million invested could go to grow the company and then take it back public (for at least 100 percent profit for the main buyer) or you can take the 700 million and flush it down the toilet and give yourself a few good grades and then unload them on the public.   With that scenario there are too many people looking for a reason to rip on a company.  If a card is an 8 and you put it in a 10 holder, you are opening yourself up to the same thing Becket Grading had to shed with its BGGS division.  Joe Orlando who ran PSA until he was promoted to president of collectors universe.  He is a collector and you don't hear about him selling un substantiated cards.  The only problem that we have heard about is the PWCC one.  I am pretty sure that it was not the company but. a few individuals.  Any way in that exposure both companies had to spend more in damage control than what was made in altering cards.  (also the FBI was involved because of money across state lines, so there are repercussions  to outright fraud.  However it all goes back to personal opinion.  Not every collector has the knowledge that you have and can look at a card to get the final grade.  Most people say their cards are mint when you can see the worlds in the corners and such. (just look at descriptions on eBay). Grading is an excepted leveler that allows the card to be graded by a TRUSTED (key word) company.  Which intern earns the public trust and can be monitored more easily.  They have more business than they can handle right now.  That is why there  is long wait times and cost per card is going up.  All at the same time they are hiring more people to ramp up for the influx.  Becket grading is the only other company (which is private) that comes close to values per card graded overall.  There is a long wait time at Beckett grading,  the wait time at SGC is not as long, however the values of a SGC card are not as high as PSA.  If you take all three companies and just the card divisions take the same card, lets a 1953 Mantel in vg 3.  PSA would be worth the most filled by a couple of hundred less Becket then a little bit less SGC.  This is because of the trust the public has in your product.  Going back to the top point 700 million will not be worth having a few more 10's in a collection.   
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: bandaches on December 07, 2020, 07:32:17 AM
The Main business at collectors universe is PCGS.  The coin division is the main company.  PSA  came later to the table.  Right now the board of directors are mostly coin collectors.  PCGS in its field is rated one of the top grading companies.  I truly do not think that going private is going to set it up for rampant fraud.  700 million is a lot to spend just to get better grades on a card.  Without the trust of the people (the collectors) you have no company.  I truly feel that the new ownership will take collectors universe to a new level and then they will take it public again.  Being private allows the company to grow without having to answer to shareholders.  Therefore the 700 million invested could go to grow the company and then take it back public (for at least 100 percent profit for the main buyer) or you can take the 700 million and flush it down the toilet and give yourself a few good grades and then unload them on the public.   With that scenario there are too many people looking for a reason to rip on a company.  If a card is an 8 and you put it in a 10 holder, you are opening yourself up to the same thing Becket Grading had to shed with its BGGS division.  Joe Orlando who ran PSA until he was promoted to president of collectors universe.  He is a collector and you don't hear about him selling un substantiated cards.  The only problem that we have heard about is the PWCC one.  I am pretty sure that it was not the company but. a few individuals.  Any way in that exposure both companies had to spend more in damage control than what was made in altering cards.  (also the FBI was involved because of money across state lines, so there are repercussions  to outright fraud.  However it all goes back to personal opinion.  Not every collector has the knowledge that you have and can look at a card to get the final grade.  Most people say their cards are mint when you can see the worlds in the corners and such. (just look at descriptions on eBay). Grading is an excepted leveler that allows the card to be graded by a TRUSTED (key word) company.  Which intern earns the public trust and can be monitored more easily.  They have more business than they can handle right now.  That is why there  is long wait times and cost per card is going up.  All at the same time they are hiring more people to ramp up for the influx.  Becket grading is the only other company (which is private) that comes close to values per card graded overall.  There is a long wait time at Beckett grading,  the wait time at SGC is not as long, however the values of a SGC card are not as high as PSA.  If you take all three companies and just the card divisions take the same card, lets a 1953 Mantel in vg 3.  PSA would be worth the most filled by a couple of hundred less Becket then a little bit less SGC.  This is because of the trust the public has in your product.  Going back to the top point 700 million will not be worth having a few more 10's in a collection.   
fair points for sure, he didn't drop $700 million only for his collection, he will still reap the rewards of the PSA Business itself but as you pointed out fraud exists and as a private company, there will be fewer eyes on them, I don't see that as upside.  He grossly overpaid for the business as the stock price went way ahead of itself.  My points about randomness of o/c qualfier and decimal grades hold true, mark my words, it will hurt them if they continue the charade with those.  Anytime you need a whole discussion to explain the grading process making it look more subjective and random than it already is, will destroy its main purpose.  Crispness in rules, conciseness in grades, consistent execution should be the only path.  Whichever grading company gets closest to that will win.  Hard to be 100% perfect in them all but PSA is trending away from it from what I see in wackys.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: jleonard1967 on December 07, 2020, 09:01:25 AM
I agree with alot you mentioned and I think we said the same things (just in different ways. ). Collectors universe was sold for a 30% premium over the strike price when they accepted the offer.  regardless of what the price is now it will convert to the agreed upon price.  the closer it gets to the agreed upon price the more likely the deal will go thru.  I personally have tried all 3 grading companies.  I dislike SGC, but for pre war vintage they are the best, I tolerate Beckets, and for modern autographs and reg cards they are the best, but over all PSA holds the most money per transaction and the most clout in the card world.  (SGC is also in to coins and paper money like Collectors universe is)
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: faustxxx on December 09, 2020, 02:09:04 PM
     I am about to send my 8 unused 1973 tattoos to be graded,  I am looking to buy anyone else's that may exist. Please PM me if you or someone you know has these. Matt.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: jleonard1967 on December 09, 2020, 09:07:49 PM
     I am about to send my 8 proof 1973 tattoos to be graded,  I am looking to buy anyone else's that may exist. Please PM me if you or someone you know has these. Matt.
I would check with probstien.  He seems to have the market cornered on "proof" items from Topps.  I would contact PSA first to see if the will even grade "proof" items, before you send.

Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: bandaches on December 09, 2020, 09:47:24 PM
     I am about to send my 8 proof 1973 tattoos to be graded,  I am looking to buy anyone else's that may exist. Please PM me if you or someone you know has these. Matt.
why would you grade a proof item?  Wouldn't there only be one proof per item therefore there is no grading war on who's is the best?
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: faustxxx on December 10, 2020, 02:29:10 AM
   I misspoke, these are not the proofs only never used or wrapped around the gum.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: bandaches on December 10, 2020, 01:40:56 PM
   I misspoke, these are not the proofs only never used or wrapped around the gum.
Gotcha well there are loads of those in the wild so you should get some hits when you adjust your ask and remove the word "proof".
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on December 10, 2020, 04:50:46 PM
Thatís an odd niche to submit. Unopened Tattoos ďPacksĒ. Have people subbed these before? I am not even sure. I have one, albeit itís just in my personal collection. I actually got it for free at an Allentown show a couple years back or so.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: drono on December 18, 2020, 10:26:36 AM
Anyone who wants to get Comic Books graded, Beckett has a 50% off sale through Christmas day, just use code GRADING50.

https://www.cbcscomics.com/?utm_source=promotion&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=CBCS_Christmas2020_Promo
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on January 04, 2021, 07:17:22 AM
Got these two for Christmas...

(https://i.postimg.cc/ZR0jZ2sZ/S2-Awful-Bits.jpg) (https://i.postimg.cc/ZR0jZ2sZ/S2-Awful-Bits.jpg/) (https://i.postimg.cc/MG9tCqDd/S2-Exceedrin.jpg) (https://i.postimg.cc/MG9tCqDd/S2-Exceedrin.jpg/)
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: faustxxx on January 04, 2021, 08:15:15 AM
Got these two for Christmas...

(https://i.postimg.cc/ZR0jZ2sZ/S2-Awful-Bits.jpg) (https://i.postimg.cc/ZR0jZ2sZ/S2-Awful-Bits.jpg/) (https://i.postimg.cc/MG9tCqDd/S2-Exceedrin.jpg) (https://i.postimg.cc/MG9tCqDd/S2-Exceedrin.jpg/)
  Are you building a 2nd series set of 8's? or just PSA graded in general?  Which are you missing?  Matt.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on January 04, 2021, 08:38:07 AM
  Are you building a 2nd series set of 8's? or just PSA graded in general?  Which are you missing?  Matt.

I am mostly buying 5th Series PSA 8's to complete that set, but have gotten a few odds and ends from other series.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on January 07, 2021, 09:26:41 AM
An upgrade. Not glossy unfortunately, but the centering is very nice for this title!

(https://i.postimg.cc/JnzLpPzS/S5-Fatina-8.jpg) (https://i.postimg.cc/JnzLpPzS/S5-Fatina-8.jpg/)
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Paul_Maul on January 07, 2021, 09:31:48 AM
An upgrade. Not glossy unfortunately, but the centering is very nice for this title!

(https://i.postimg.cc/JnzLpPzS/S5-Fatina-8.jpg) (https://i.postimg.cc/JnzLpPzS/S5-Fatina-8.jpg/)

That centering really is good. Mine is a glossy 8, but the centering is much worse.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on January 07, 2021, 10:47:45 AM
That centering really is good. Mine is a glossy 8, but the centering is much worse.

Had the toning been worse, I probably would not have gone for it. The centering is near if not perfect though, so the light toning doesn't bother me too much. I think the lightly-touched corners are the only thing keeping this from being the second PSA 9.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: ToadallyDude on January 07, 2021, 09:36:59 PM
4th glossies arenít very common unfortunately. I think I only had two or three in my pre-PSA keeper set as opposed to the 5ths which I think were the majority in my set. And I donít think Iíve ever owned a single 6th glossy.

I should pull out my 1-16 and check to see if I still have some of the 4th & 6th glossies I used to have in there.  I let my friend raid my set to grade a bunch of stuff for eBay years ago as I really never cared about condition once it got above EX+ for my keeper set.  But I did really want to go after a complete 4th, 5th, and 6th glossy set at one point.  So, I used to pull those aside when I found them in lots.  One problem with Glossies, though, unfortunately, is that they tended to be very unforgiving of the slightest of bends, creases, and track-marks.  Because of the gloss, they'd stand right out immediately.  But there's nothing like seeing those dingy 4/5/6 titles in their intended BRIGHT colors!  I know I had some 4th and 6th, but never a glossy Bum/Choke, or Runaway.  I can't be certain about Shotwheels.  I seem to remember at least seeing one once.  A glossy run of 4-5-6 would probably be rarer than a run of 1-2 Ludlow & 3 White, I'd think.  But just not as in-demand. 

Might be cool to get a registry going of known Glossy titles, though, to see if it's even possible.  Anyone ever do that?
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Paul_Maul on January 08, 2021, 05:07:00 PM
I know I had some 4th and 6th, but never a glossy Bum/Choke, or Runaway.  I can't be certain about Shotwheels.  I seem to remember at least seeing one once.  A glossy run of 4-5-6 would probably be rarer than a run of 1-2 Ludlow & 3 White, I'd think.  But just not as in-demand. 


Iím pretty sure glossy versions of Bum and Choke do not exist. The glossy stock was likely introduced after they were pulled,  then used in earnest for the 5th series, and finished up at the very beginning of the 6th.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: ToadallyDude on January 10, 2021, 02:26:15 PM
That's what I figured as well.  There's no way of knowing for sure, though, if the timelines crossed.  I do know I had a glossy Windhex at one point, though.  I think the 2 titles I'd want most as a glossy would be "Runaway" & "Shotwheels".  Unfortunately, I first learned to appreciate the glossies right after trading off all the extras from a massive stack of 4-8 I'd bought in bulk, and selling off my 3rd run of 1-16 in the Wrapper.  I probably could have put together a near-complete 5th Glossy set from all that I'd think, and had a good tally of 4th & 6th titles for a database.  But that was 2 decades+ ago.  I would think Greg and/or Ernie would have probably accumulated enough 4,5,6 singles over the years to have the best Glossy sets around. 
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Paul_Maul on January 10, 2021, 02:32:43 PM
I bought three glossy 5th sets at the Philly show a few years ago. Completing a 5th glossy set should be easy, the other two not so much.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: ToadallyDude on January 10, 2021, 02:39:04 PM
I bought three glossy 5th sets at the Philly show a few years ago. Completing a 5th glossy set should be easy, the other two not so much.

That's so cool.  What kind of premium did they want for them over a regular set?  Seems like PSA 9/10 glossies would look really nice, but I wonder if PSA would make the distinction as an official variant.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Paul_Maul on January 10, 2021, 03:53:36 PM
Scott, there was no premium. They were $35 per set. Almost all had uniform asterisks, so I imagine they were from a wax box that had been opened at some point, as they were mostly very high grade. It was a great find for me because up to that point it was not a series I had a lot of success with. And yes, they do look nice as PSA 9s!

(https://i.postimg.cc/c1bbNGk8/achoo9.jpg)

(https://i.postimg.cc/t474SYmx/graft.jpg)

(https://i.postimg.cc/440HvWng/secrets9.jpg)

(https://i.postimg.cc/WpKL2kY8/stifford9.jpg)

(https://i.postimg.cc/wxPvS3X8/swiss9.jpg)

Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: jleonard1967 on January 10, 2021, 08:48:19 PM
Scott, there was no premium. They were $35 per set. Almost all had uniform asterisks, so I imagine they were from a wax box that had been opened at some point, as they were mostly very high grade. It was a great find for me because up to that point it was not a series I had a lot of success with. And yes, they do look nice as PSA 9s!

(https://i.postimg.cc/c1bbNGk8/achoo9.jpg)

(https://i.postimg.cc/t474SYmx/graft.jpg)

(https://i.postimg.cc/440HvWng/secrets9.jpg)

(https://i.postimg.cc/WpKL2kY8/stifford9.jpg)

(https://i.postimg.cc/wxPvS3X8/swiss9.jpg)
Nice no, better word would be Drool worthy :]
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: RawGoo on January 10, 2021, 09:31:29 PM
Nice no, better word would be Drool worthy :]

Agreed!!
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on January 11, 2021, 04:21:44 AM
Wasn't this one from that lot, Dave?

Still have no clue why this is a PSA 7.

(https://i.postimg.cc/Qx3sKDmb/S5-PSA7-Cram.jpg) (https://i.postimg.cc/Qx3sKDmb/S5-PSA7-Cram.jpg/)
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Paul_Maul on January 11, 2021, 06:48:11 AM
Based on the cert number it was definitely from the same submission. And if I submitted it, I definitely did not think it was a 7 either!!
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: bandaches on January 11, 2021, 07:18:45 AM
Based on the cert number it was definitely from the same submission. And if I submitted it, I definitely did not think it was a 7 either!!
Left right centering didn't kill it?
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Paul_Maul on January 11, 2021, 07:26:04 AM
If you measure it, it is actually better than 60/40, which is acceptable for a 9. I agree it may not have 9 eye appeal due to the slight diamond cut, but certainly plenty acceptable for an 8.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: bandaches on January 11, 2021, 08:21:22 AM
If you measure it, it is actually better than 60/40, which is acceptable for a 9. I agree it may not have 9 eye appeal due to the slight diamond cut, but certainly plenty acceptable for an 8.
Now that I understand PSA grades on centering eye appeal and not true card centering, this doesn't look close to 60/40 visually, I am shocked that it actually measures to 60/40 but my money is on left right centering yielded the PSA 7.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: drono on January 11, 2021, 09:59:22 AM
Is that a little printing flaw in the top border between the C and the R in Cram and another one in the top left edge when the sticker is oriented correctly?  Or are they from something that was on the scanner?

I think PSA grading is like judging figure skating or gymnastics at the Olympics.  Just come up with a measurable criteria and apply it to every one.  Measurement is truth; otherwise it's just a guess.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on January 11, 2021, 10:20:10 AM
Is that a little printing flaw in the top border between the C and the R in Cram and another one in the top left edge when the sticker is oriented correctly?  Or are they from something that was on the scanner?

I think PSA grading is like judging figure skating or gymnastics at the Olympics.  Just come up with a measurable criteria and apply it to every one.  Measurement is truth; otherwise it's just a guess.

That does seem like a printing flaw as I just examined the card again. I honestly don't know if it's diamond cut, and if it is, it is extremely subtle. I still think the centering is good enough for this to be an 8, and visually I like this one. I honestly doubt that PSA wouldn't give it a higher grade because of the "diamond cut" anyway, because I have seen much worse diamond cuts before graded 7's or higher.

We really do need someone knowledgeable on these to grade... and also be impartial.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: bandaches on January 11, 2021, 02:53:45 PM
That does seem like a printing flaw as I just examined the card again. I honestly don't know if it's diamond cut, and if it is, it is extremely subtle. I still think the centering is good enough for this to be an 8, and visually I like this one. I honestly doubt that PSA wouldn't give it a higher grade because of the "diamond cut" anyway, because I have seen much worse diamond cuts before graded 7's or higher.

We really do need someone knowledgeable on these to grade... and also be impartial.
PSA is not considered to be impartial?
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on January 12, 2021, 10:00:14 AM
PSA is not considered to be impartial?

You must know something that I don't!
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: bandaches on January 12, 2021, 10:57:26 AM
You must know something that I don't!

"We really do need someone knowledgeable on these to grade... and also be impartial."

Usually people don't express a need for something that already exists so I took your comment as your suggesting PSA wasn't impartial.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on January 12, 2021, 11:00:53 AM
"We really do need someone knowledgeable on these to grade... and also be impartial."

Usually people don't express a need for something that already exists so I took your comment as your suggesting PSA wasn't impartial.

I meant, PSA generally isn't very knowledgeable about these. So, we'd need someone who is. But, since this hobby is a tight niche, the grader might try to do their friend a favor and give a better grade giving Wackys unjust grading in perpetuity.

Maybe that's jaded, but I am just throwing it out there.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: drono on January 12, 2021, 11:37:30 AM
Since this hobby is a tight niche, the grader might try to do their friend a favor and give a better grade

That's already been expressed as an ongoing problem.  The difference between a 9 and a 10 for certain high demand items (sports cards mostly) can be a substantial amount of money, so the temptation of doing a favor for a friend or some cash under the table is a very real concern.  Without a published criteria for what defines what grade, and transparency on individual items' grades, it will always be seen as subjective.  Unfortunately they will never publish this because it's considered proprietary, just like credit scores. 
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: bandaches on January 12, 2021, 12:35:39 PM
That's already been expressed as an ongoing problem.  The difference between a 9 and a 10 for certain high demand items (sports cards mostly) can be a substantial amount of money, so the temptation of doing a favor for a friend or some cash under the table is a very real concern.  Without a published criteria for what defines what grade, and transparency on individual items' grades, it will always be seen as subjective.  Unfortunately they will never publish this because it's considered proprietary, just like credit scores.
agreed, this is not a wacky packages issue, this is an issue with grading in general.  The fact that the same card can be PSA 9 O?C or PSA7 depending on whether you accept a qualifier is nutty!  There should be no such thing as qualifiers and half grades all cards graded with same criteria and should not be based on eye appeal, centering is centering regardless of the "width" of the borders but PSA's primary goal is not accuracy, it is to make MONEY!!!  Accuracy is a flex term that will flex in the direction of money, half grades means money, half grades it is.  Qualifiers means money, qualifiers it is.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on January 13, 2021, 03:57:00 AM
agreed, this is not a wacky packages issue, this is an issue with grading in general.  The fact that the same card can be PSA 9 O?C or PSA7 depending on whether you accept a qualifier is nutty!  There should be no such thing as qualifiers and half grades all cards graded with same criteria and should not be based on eye appeal, centering is centering regardless of the "width" of the borders but PSA's primary goal is not accuracy, it is to make MONEY!!!  Accuracy is a flex term that will flex in the direction of money, half grades means money, half grades it is.  Qualifiers means money, qualifiers it is.

A PSA 9 (OC) is a PSA 7. It means that the card is a 9 sans the centering. I don't like qualifiers either personally, but that's the reasoning they'll give.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: jleonard1967 on January 13, 2021, 04:54:16 AM
I would take a PSA 7 over a PSA 9(OC). I know they grade out the same on the registry, however the 7 is so much more of a cleaner grade.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Paul_Maul on January 13, 2021, 05:06:50 AM
As more and more wackys are submitted to PSA, itís becoming clear that this is the toughest 1st series title in high grade....

(https://i.postimg.cc/SQ5vRLGV/image.jpg)
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on January 13, 2021, 05:15:25 AM
As more and more wackys are submitted to PSA, itís becoming clear that this is the toughest 1st series title in high grade....

(https://i.postimg.cc/SQ5vRLGV/image.jpg)

Yes. I have yet to see a perfectly centered Kook Aid. Even your's is slightly OC vertically but much better than average. It's fun because I hope to get not only a centered 1st series version, but also a diecuts version! And, they have their own plethora of issues.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: RawGoo on January 13, 2021, 05:37:42 AM
As more and more wackys are submitted to PSA, itís becoming clear that this is the toughest 1st series title in high grade....

(https://i.postimg.cc/SQ5vRLGV/image.jpg)

That is really beautiful!  I assume you submitted that one yourself?
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Paul_Maul on January 13, 2021, 06:00:09 AM
Yes. I have yet to see a perfectly centered Kook Aid. Even your's is slightly OC vertically but much better than average. It's fun because I hope to get not only a centered 1st series version, but also a diecuts version! And, they have their own plethora of issues.

Yes. I think itís pretty typical that really low pop examples are marginal. Same for my Floral.

I think what makes this title tough is the copyright is so far below the image, even when it is properly centered the visual impression is that it is OC.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Paul_Maul on January 13, 2021, 06:00:39 AM
That is really beautiful!  I assume you submitted that one yourself?

Yeah, hard to believe my first submissions were almost 8 years ago...
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Paul_Maul on January 13, 2021, 06:11:28 AM
Another thing I noticed last night that I never picked up on before is that all 1st Series Hostages tend to appear tilted or diamond cut. Many of them actually are, but even if the card is cut perfectly, it still looks off because the black border surrounding the image is not really rectangular. The bottom edge of it slopes down slightly from right to left, and the copyright is parallel to that edge, which is not quite parallel to the bottom edge of the card.

(https://i.postimg.cc/L4vMhhqs/C5-EBB036-753-E-4-CEA-9-F91-BCB4-E8-CD90-CC.jpg)
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: bandaches on January 13, 2021, 06:27:57 AM
Yes. I think itís pretty typical that really low pop examples are marginal. Same for my Floral.

I think what makes this title tough is the copyright is so far below the image, even when it is properly centered the visual impression is that it is OC.
PSA only goes for visual centering, they have no idea where the copyright "should be" on perfectly centered card.  they would need an uncut sheet to make this determination.  This one you have graded her looks awesome but is it the angle of the scan that makes it look like a T cut ie the top edge is wider than the bottom edge?
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Paul_Maul on January 13, 2021, 06:40:06 AM
PSA only goes for visual centering, they have no idea where the copyright "should be" on perfectly centered card.  they would need an uncut sheet to make this determination.  This one you have graded her looks awesome but is it the angle of the scan that makes it look like a T cut ie the top edge is wider than the bottom edge?

It does have a slight flare cut on the top right, which is common for titles on the edge of the sheet. I opened multiple 1st reissue boxes and all my Mrs. Kleans and Viles had it!
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: bandaches on January 13, 2021, 08:13:12 AM
It does have a slight flare cut on the top right, which is common for titles on the edge of the sheet. I opened multiple 1st reissue boxes and all my Mrs. Kleans and Viles had it!
How can such a flare qualify for PSA9?  Now I really have no idea what criteria PSA is using, not eye appeal, not real centering either.  I thought any flaw visible with naked eye dropped it to PSA8 and only magnifying glass and such distinguished 9's and 10's.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Paul_Maul on January 13, 2021, 08:53:21 AM
How can such a flare qualify for PSA9?  Now I really have no idea what criteria PSA is using, not eye appeal, not real centering either.  I thought any flaw visible with naked eye dropped it to PSA8 and only magnifying glass and such distinguished 9's and 10's.

Iím not sure where you got these ideas. 🙂 PSA grading is largely based on centering and corner/surface wear. Most aspects of grading (with the exception of centering) are not quantifiable, and as a result, are interpreted differently by different graders.

I submitted a Soggy Babies (another edge of sheet title) that had a noticeable flare cut. The first time it came back N8 Miscut. Upon resubmission, it graded a PSA 10.

As someone generally looking to criticize PSA, you will surely see this as a sign of incompetence. But the fact is, anything that is not quantifiable is subjective. A flare cut can vary on a continuum from barely noticeable to awful. Yes, so can corner wear. All of these non-quantifiable factors are ultimately subjective, and there is really no way around that.

So while anal collectors would love it if there were a completely deterministic grading process that would yield identical results when repeated, that is unfortunately not possible. Thatís why graders with experience who can be reasonably consistent are the best we can hope for, and the buyer bears some responsibility in making sure he is happy with the card no matter how it is graded.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on January 13, 2021, 09:07:51 AM
Iím not sure where you got these ideas. 🙂 PSA grading is largely based on centering and corner/surface wear. Most aspects of grading (with the exception of centering) are not quantifiable, and as a result, are interpreted differently by different graders.

I submitted a Soggy Babies (another edge of sheet title) that had a noticeable flare cut. The first time it came back N8 Miscut. Upon resubmission, it graded a PSA 10.

As someone generally looking to criticize PSA, you will surely see this as a sign of incompetence. But the fact is, anything that is not quantifiable is subjective. A flare cut can vary on a continuum from barely noticeable to awful. Yes, so can corner wear. All of these non-quantifiable factors are ultimately subjective, and there is really no way around that.

So while anal collectors would love it if there were a completely deterministic grading process that would yield identical results when repeated, that is unfortunately not possible. Thatís why graders with experience who can be reasonably consistent are the best we can hope for, and the buyer bears some responsibility in making sure he is happy with the card no matter how it is graded.

Yeah, I personally don't think the Soggy Babies is a 10 but who knows. I never knew that cutting issue was considered a "flare cut". I know that is the death blow to probably every Jerkyfruits I've seen.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: bandaches on January 13, 2021, 11:06:05 AM
Iím not sure where you got these ideas. 🙂 PSA grading is largely based on centering and corner/surface wear. Most aspects of grading (with the exception of centering) are not quantifiable, and as a result, are interpreted differently by different graders.

I submitted a Soggy Babies (another edge of sheet title) that had a noticeable flare cut. The first time it came back N8 Miscut. Upon resubmission, it graded a PSA 10.

As someone generally looking to criticize PSA, you will surely see this as a sign of incompetence. But the fact is, anything that is not quantifiable is subjective. A flare cut can vary on a continuum from barely noticeable to awful. Yes, so can corner wear. All of these non-quantifiable factors are ultimately subjective, and there is really no way around that.

So while anal collectors would love it if there were a completely deterministic grading process that would yield identical results when repeated, that is unfortunately not possible. Thatís why graders with experience who can be reasonably consistent are the best we can hope for, and the buyer bears some responsibility in making sure he is happy with the card no matter how it is graded.
It IS QUANTIFIABLE!  That is the problem here. with all the measuring devises out there, either it is flare cut or it is not.  From there, % of flare cut determines impact on grade.  It is outrageous that items can be resubmitted and get new grades.  I really am at a loss as to why you feel PSA has a better eye than you do and that you are willing to pay them money for this.  You have a super accurate critical eye, slab them yourself.  PSA's word and measurement of this is a completely arbitrary number at this point.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: ToadallyDude on January 19, 2021, 02:03:37 PM
Very cool.  Thanks for sharing.  $35 a set is awsome for PSA-9 quality glossies.  I'd pay that.  5th-7th (or 3-8) are arguably the most common series out there, but not necessarily in pristine condition.  Some of the most notoriously faded, dull looking titles seem to come from 3-8.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on January 26, 2021, 03:47:19 AM
(https://i.postimg.cc/cK0wL6g2/23-EFF9-AE-706-A-457-B-B273-A3-C329902-CEE.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/cK0wL6g2)

(https://i.postimg.cc/Z9H3BZ6R/583-FEF32-23-FA-4-CE0-B574-643-AC16-EBBAD.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Z9H3BZ6R)

Uploading these on my phone, so sorry if the images are smaller. Got the Secrets yesterday and it brought my 5th set up two ranks!
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Paul_Maul on January 26, 2021, 05:55:07 AM
Great! Your enthusiasm for the 5th series is reminding me that I like it. Right in the heart of my wacky buying!
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: jleonard1967 on January 26, 2021, 08:19:14 AM
Hungry jerk is a harder one to get in high grade.  It took me a while to find that one. You have a nice collection going, keep up the good luck.  Be sure to show your friends your collection, maybe some of them will get interested in collecting.  A lot of my finds were from friends finding other things. 
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on January 28, 2021, 03:50:15 AM
A couple of my friends collect Pokťmon cards. I showed them the Wackys, they thought they were cool but no real interest I donít think.

I still want to find a nicer Hungry Jerk, but that one is the closest to perfect as Iíve seen.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on February 01, 2021, 03:38:03 PM

(https://i.postimg.cc/XZyXnGQ5/8-C4-A43-C5-93-C8-4609-9486-3-A20-D79-ADEC6.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/XZyXnGQ5)
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: bandaches on February 01, 2021, 07:53:50 PM
(https://i.postimg.cc/XZyXnGQ5/8-C4-A43-C5-93-C8-4609-9486-3-A20-D79-ADEC6.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/XZyXnGQ5)
Colors are super vibrant on this, nice card!
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Paul_Maul on February 02, 2021, 08:39:20 AM
(https://i.postimg.cc/XZyXnGQ5/8-C4-A43-C5-93-C8-4609-9486-3-A20-D79-ADEC6.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/XZyXnGQ5)

Super nice. Much like mine, I am not sure why it didnít get a 9. Your L/R centering looks adequate. Iím not sure the graders get how it is supposed to be centered with respect to the copyright....

(https://i.postimg.cc/tRcD1tj1/shots8.jpg)

Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: faustxxx on February 02, 2021, 01:17:10 PM
     Anyone looking for these PSA graded stickers?:   67 De-Mented 6 $75, 2nd Blecch 8 $40, 3rd Neveready 8 $40, 4th Grazin' Bran 8 $40, 5th Stiffords 8 $40, 5th Plop Sikle 8 $40, 13th Battle Ball 8 $75   PM me or email me   faustxxx@cox.net
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Paul_Maul on March 01, 2021, 06:25:07 AM
Itís pretty much over for submitting to PSA for the foreseeable future.

We have gone from specials five years ago with pricing of $5 per card and a 45 day turnaround (often completed much faster) to the current debacle: cheapest pricing of $20 per card (for ďvalueĒ submissions that take six months to finish) and ďregularĒ pricing of $100 per card! Out of control!

Here is the new pricing scheme:

(https://i.postimg.cc/bNbrk2tC/A949-C8-B0-7-E91-4612-B9-E5-B9-E347-F8-FFF7.jpg)
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: jleonard1967 on March 01, 2021, 09:16:48 AM
It is priority pricing.  I agree with your assessment,  this is going to hurt registry collectors.  People will still send in PSA lottery cards (Marvel cards and pokeman come to mind).  I hope that the pricing comes down, however if you have a supply of 9 months backlog and it is not stopping, I would also keep raising the price.   It will also open the door to a new company if the quality of the new card is good.  CGC who does comics introduced a new card grading system.  Right now it does mostly pokemon cards, but I would be willing to try other cards.  I do hope the prices level lower but with the modern cards  blowing everything away, i just don't see it.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on March 01, 2021, 10:58:33 AM
I saw this as well. Maybe if everyone actually stops grading their cards, the correct changes will be made!
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: bandaches on March 01, 2021, 02:01:09 PM
It is priority pricing.  I agree with your assessment,  this is going to hurt registry collectors.  People will still send in PSA lottery cards (Marvel cards and pokeman come to mind).  I hope that the pricing comes down, however if you have a supply of 9 months backlog and it is not stopping, I would also keep raising the price.   It will also open the door to a new company if the quality of the new card is good.  CGC who does comics introduced a new card grading system.  Right now it does mostly pokemon cards, but I would be willing to try other cards.  I do hope the prices level lower but with the modern cards  blowing everything away, i just don't see it.
I think they have gone for a whole new model of high margins and fewer slabs. I doubt their 9 month backlog is the same number of cards being graded as any previous 9 month period.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Yubum on March 01, 2021, 02:25:13 PM
I actually made up a Value submission last week but held off on shipping because there was one more card I decided to add at the last minute. Looks like I won't be adding - or shipping - any cards now.

There can't be any way this works out well for PSA - I would bet this dramatic (double!) increase in pricing not only reduces their submission volume by more than half but also drives many, many of their customers to the competition.

On the value level, no one is going to pay $20 to have, for example, a 1972 hockey, football or baseball card graded when PSA 8 commons regularly sell for that or less. And I can't see many people wanting to pay $100 for a regular submission unless they are confident the card is going to sell for a minimum of $500. SMH.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: RawGoo on March 01, 2021, 02:29:24 PM
Insanity!!
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: bandaches on March 01, 2021, 03:59:12 PM
I actually made up a Value submission last week but held off on shipping because there was one more card I decided to add at the last minute. Looks like I won't be adding - or shipping - any cards now.

There can't be any way this works out well for PSA - I would bet this dramatic (double!) increase in pricing not only reduces their submission volume by more than half but also drives many, many of their customers to the competition.

On the value level, no one is going to pay $20 to have, for example, a 1972 hockey, football or baseball card graded when PSA 8 commons regularly sell for that or less. And I can't see many people wanting to pay $100 for a regular submission unless they are confident the card is going to sell for a minimum of $500. SMH.
Actually it completely makes sense.  they can't possibly be making any money on $5 grading.  They can get rid of huge overhead in number of graders, go for higher margin on fewer slabs and try to make it look like PSA grading is really premium grading as opposed to now where it is just a massive saturation of cards.  Folks who want the "best collection" are still going to spend the money, watch and see.  I am sure PSA would rather make $100 grading one card than $100 grading 20 cards(plus 20 times the labor cost)
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on March 01, 2021, 04:58:35 PM
Actually it completely makes sense.  they can't possibly be making any money on $5 grading.  They can get rid of huge overhead in number of graders, go for higher margin on fewer slabs and try to make it look like PSA grading is really premium grading as opposed to now where it is just a massive saturation of cards.  Folks who want the "best collection" are still going to spend the money, watch and see.  I am sure PSA would rather make $100 grading one card than $100 grading 20 cards(plus 20 times the labor cost)

Um, well the 1% are called such for a reason; and the other 99% of us find this not economical so no, I don't see too many of us sending cards in even though we want the "best collection".
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: bandaches on March 02, 2021, 06:33:59 AM
Um, well the 1% are called such for a reason; and the other 99% of us find this not economical so no, I don't see too many of us sending cards in even though we want the "best collection".
Sardonic tone noted, don't shoot the messenger, I am giving you a business case for what PSA is doing.  you know I am not a fan of PSA and qualifiers and half point grades and the fact they are really grading eye appeal and not true centering....  Not for nothing but the average wacky pack collector with average spending is not trying to PSA grade his entire collection.....so 1% varies by discussion.  That collector who is a few cards away from being #1 is going to spend the money, watch and see.  PSA getting $300 from that person for 3 cards is more lucrative to them than getting $300 to grade 60 cards, paying for that much extra labor, and saturating the PSA graded card market.  Now the guy who spent $300 knows the chances his cards stay #1 is higher as the saturation of graded cards comes to a halt...PSA needs to flush out the backlog of cards they are on the hook to grade and move to a new model.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Yubum on March 02, 2021, 07:44:52 AM
Sardonic tone noted, don't shoot the messenger, I am giving you a business case for what PSA is doing.  you know I am not a fan of PSA and qualifiers and half point grades and the fact they are really grading eye appeal and not true centering....  Not for nothing but the average wacky pack collector with average spending is not trying to PSA grade his entire collection.....so 1% varies by discussion.  That collector who is a few cards away from being #1 is going to spend the money, watch and see.  PSA getting $300 from that person for 3 cards is more lucrative to them than getting $300 to grade 60 cards, paying for that much extra labor, and saturating the PSA graded card market.  Now the guy who spent $300 knows the chances his cards stay #1 is higher as the saturation of graded cards comes to a halt...PSA needs to flush out the backlog of cards they are on the hook to grade and move to a new model.

I understand the point you are trying to make, but just to clarify PSA had been charging $12 to grade a common card (from the Wacky era), not $5. The price has now nearly doubled to $20 (though they have lowered the minimum cards submitted under that tier from 20 to 10).

I read online that PSA currently has a backlog of an estimated 9 MILLION cards to grade, with one customer alone submitting more than 400,000 cards. They have hired 125+ new graders to deal with the massive backlog but the pace of submissions has increased exponentially over the last few months and shows no sign of abating. So it sounds like the price increase is intended by PSA as a sort of firebreak to try to slow the firestorm of cards being submitted. Now they will just have to wait to see when the conflagration is finally stopped if it isn't actually their largest customer base they have extinguished instead.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: bandaches on March 02, 2021, 08:46:34 AM
I understand the point you are trying to make, but just to clarify PSA had been charging $12 to grade a common card (from the Wacky era), not $5. The price has now nearly doubled to $20 (though they have lowered the minimum cards submitted under that tier from 20 to 10).

I read online that PSA currently has a backlog of an estimated 9 MILLION cards to grade, with one customer alone submitting more than 400,000 cards. They have hired 125+ new graders to deal with the massive backlog but the pace of submissions has increased exponentially over the last few months and shows no sign of abating. So it sounds like the price increase is intended by PSA as a sort of firebreak to try to slow the firestorm of cards being submitted. Now they will just have to wait to see when the conflagration is finally stopped if it isn't actually their largest customer base they have extinguished instead.
I was responding to Dave's specific point about $5 deals.  Those deals will NEVER be offered again.  There is no reason for PSA to ever offer that again and they don't care about losing that population, low margin, makes the saturation even worse.  Seems more will join my overall disdain for PSA.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Liptorn on March 02, 2021, 04:05:28 PM
PSA has always had a poor attitude towards customers where
they feel we need them more than they need us.
They couldn't care less if they ever grade another Wacky again
when they have millions of Pokemon, Jordan, Kobe, Lebron cards
to grade at full price.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: jeffcaff on March 02, 2021, 04:36:56 PM
Easy decision.   Waiting 9 months and $20.00 per card for grading.  I will pass.   Thank you PSA for making my decision for me. 
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: drono on March 03, 2021, 03:04:37 AM
Maybe if everyone actually stops grading their cards

If this happened, wouldn't the world come to an end - not with a bang but a whimper.  Would we now have junk PSA?  I guess I just don't understand the entire PSA craze, just like I don't understand the need for more than one earring in each ear or tattoos all over someone's body.  If this is the end of the world as we know it, I'll feel fine.

Just so you know, that was sarcasm - all but the I'll feel fine.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Paul_Maul on March 03, 2021, 06:04:24 AM
If this happened, wouldn't the world come to an end - not with a bang but a whimper.  Would we now have junk PSA?  I guess I just don't understand the entire PSA craze, just like I don't understand the need for more than one earring in each ear or tattoos all over someone's body.  If this is the end of the world as we know it, I'll feel fine.

Just so you know, that was sarcasm - all but the I'll feel fine.

There is not much to understand. If you care about having a card in extremely nice condition, PSA offers the most efficient way to obtain that. If you donít care, it is of no use to you.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: RawGoo on March 03, 2021, 06:18:21 AM
There is not much to understand. If you care about having a card in extremely nice condition, PSA offers the most efficient way to obtain that. If you donít care, it is of no use to you.

I wonder how many really nice raw cards that turn up won't get graded now, even if they are tough to find in high grade condition.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: drono on March 03, 2021, 09:00:11 AM
There is not much to understand. If you care about having a card in extremely nice condition, PSA offers the most efficient way to obtain that. If you donít care, it is of no use to you.

That part I understand.  What I don't understand is why it's so crazy now that there is a 9 million card backlog.  I would be willing to bet that the number of collectors who really care is miniscule compared to just the number of cards that are waiting to be graded.  This was supposed to be a hobby - something that you do in your spare time to have fun.  It's become a very ugly business.  It hasn't affected Wacky Packages as much because we are in a niche market. 

The sports card world has gotten crazy with PSA fever.  I just sold a couple of unopened boxes of 1989 Low Number Upper Deck Baseball to a friend.  He opened every pack to get one Ken Griffey, Jr. rookie to slab.  He doesn't care about any of the other 1,079 cards in the box.  That's what I don't understand.  Maybe I'm just too old school.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Paul_Maul on March 03, 2021, 09:37:26 AM
That part I understand.  What I don't understand is why it's so crazy now that there is a 9 million card backlog.  I would be willing to bet that the number of collectors who really care is miniscule compared to just the number of cards that are waiting to be graded.  This was supposed to be a hobby - something that you do in your spare time to have fun.  It's become a very ugly business.  It hasn't affected Wacky Packages as much because we are in a niche market. 

The sports card world has gotten crazy with PSA fever.  I just sold a couple of unopened boxes of 1989 Low Number Upper Deck Baseball to a friend.  He opened every pack to get one Ken Griffey, Jr. rookie to slab.  He doesn't care about any of the other 1,079 cards in the box.  That's what I don't understand.  Maybe I'm just too old school.

Unfortunately, sports cards (particularly modern ones) are in the midst of a speculative frenzy due to very deep pocketed investors jumping in. Thatís what is fueling a lot of the grading submissions. Iím afraid that will end as that usually does, with casual collectors alienated and investors/speculators moving on to the next big thing.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Yubum on March 03, 2021, 10:44:07 AM
That part I understand.  What I don't understand is why it's so crazy now that there is a 9 million card backlog.  I would be willing to bet that the number of collectors who really care is miniscule compared to just the number of cards that are waiting to be graded.  This was supposed to be a hobby - something that you do in your spare time to have fun.  It's become a very ugly business.  It hasn't affected Wacky Packages as much because we are in a niche market. 

The sports card world has gotten crazy with PSA fever.  I just sold a couple of unopened boxes of 1989 Low Number Upper Deck Baseball to a friend.  He opened every pack to get one Ken Griffey, Jr. rookie to slab.  He doesn't care about any of the other 1,079 cards in the box.  That's what I don't understand.  Maybe I'm just too old school.

PSA has been hijacked by a horde of speculators who see unopened packs of sports cards as a lottery ticket, not as something to collect. And, honestly, the card companies have become accomplices (I believe Panini sells their current football packs - with four cards inside - for $125 per pack!). These gamblers buy packs to rip, ship and flip them as soon as they return from PSA. This is as big a bubble as tulip mania, and IMO much more dangerous for the hobby than the bubble in the 1990s. Kids caught up in the frenzy are going to get burned and will swear off cards, leaving just the old school guys once again.

Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Yubum on March 03, 2021, 10:47:24 AM
I wonder how many really nice raw cards that turn up won't get graded now, even if they are tough to find in high grade condition.

Well, I know it won't bankrupt PSA, but I had nine nice NM/NM+ 15th series cards I was ready to grade (as part of a 20 card Value submission) that I now won't be. At $12 a card I was willing to risk my grading being off and having one or all come back PSA 7, but not at $20 per card (plus shipping).
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: jleonard1967 on March 03, 2021, 11:03:13 AM
Save them, there might be in the future monthly specials that will bring the price down.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on March 03, 2021, 11:52:20 AM
Well, I know it won't bankrupt PSA, but I had nine nice NM/NM+ 15th series cards I was ready to grade (as part of a 20 card Value submission) that I now won't be. At $12 a card I was willing to risk my grading being off and having one or all come back PSA 7, but not at $20 per card (plus shipping).

Iíd just save them, making sure all were in penny sleeves and toploaders. Take solace in those cards and donít let them go for the 6+ months that it will take. I set aside ten cards from my personal collection that Iíd send in, but Iím wanting to less and less as the days go on.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: bandaches on March 03, 2021, 12:14:19 PM
There is not much to understand. If you care about having a card in extremely nice condition, PSA offers the most efficient way to obtain that. If you donít care, it is of no use to you.
How is PSA more efficient when your eye is far more discerning than PSA graders?
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: RawGoo on March 03, 2021, 12:31:16 PM
PSA has been hijacked by a horde of speculators who see unopened packs of sports cards as a lottery ticket, not as something to collect. And, honestly, the card companies have become accomplices (I believe Panini sells their current football packs - with four cards inside - for $125 per pack!). These gamblers buy packs to rip, ship and flip them as soon as they return from PSA. This is as big a bubble as tulip mania, and IMO much more dangerous for the hobby than the bubble in the 1990s. Kids caught up in the frenzy are going to get burned and will swear off cards, leaving just the old school guys once again.

I think a lot of people are submitting mass quantities of brand new cards, like Topps Now stuff, to get a Gem Mint 10 grade.  That I just don't get.  It's new, was never in a pack, and was shipped in a sleeve!  Why not just keep it that way?
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: drono on March 03, 2021, 12:48:28 PM
I think a lot of people are submitting mass quantities of brand new cards, like Topps Now stuff, to get a Gem Mint 10 grade.  That I just don't get.  It's new, was never in a pack, and was shipped in a sleeve!  Why not just keep it that way?

Even getting the older stuff slabbed doesn't always make sense unless it's super rare and you want to authenticate it.  Is the joke on a Wacky Package funnier because the sticker is well centered and has no dinged corners or has been graded a 9 or 10?  Do we collect for the enjoyment of what's in the product or do we collect as an investment?  I do the former.  Earlier in life I did the latter, but now I just keep what I like and don't worry about anything else.

How is PSA more efficient when your eye is far more discerning than PSA graders?

I agree with you Ernie.  What I like and will put in my collection is only important to my eyes, not some grader's.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Paul_Maul on March 03, 2021, 01:17:58 PM
How is PSA more efficient when your eye is far more discerning than PSA graders?

Because trying to buy raw PSA 9 quality cards on eBay is impossible. Yes, in person, where I can examine them carefully, I am happy to buy raw cards (as long as they are not valuable enough to have been trimmed/recolored). Getting them graded in that case is just a fun collecting exercise that happens to enhanace their value.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Paul_Maul on March 03, 2021, 03:22:48 PM
Even getting the older stuff slabbed doesn't always make sense unless it's super rare and you want to authenticate it.  Is the joke on a Wacky Package funnier because the sticker is well centered and has no dinged corners or has been graded a 9 or 10?  Do we collect for the enjoyment of what's in the product or do we collect as an investment?  I do the former.  Earlier in life I did the latter, but now I just keep what I like and don't worry about anything else.

Liking items to be in nice condition does not necessarily mean one is collecting for investment.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: RawGoo on March 03, 2021, 04:19:04 PM
Liking items to be in nice condition does not necessarily mean one is collecting for investment.

Agreed!
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: bandaches on March 04, 2021, 06:57:22 AM
Agreed!
but...you don't need PSA to define nice condition....so investment value is of course part of it.  My keeper collection is super nice and meets my eye appeal.  Why on earth would I need to have them all slabbed by PSA?  the ONLY reason I would do that is resale investment value.  PSA is not any smarter about what I like than me..... and we can see PSA is grading eye appeal, not true card centering.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: bandaches on March 04, 2021, 12:37:15 PM
so of course I buy another collection(series 1-15) and the white backs in series 2, 14 and 15 are as nice and white and pristine as any I have ever seen.  I can almost smell gum these seem so fresh.  These cards clearly stayed with one owner and stored away.  The only issue is some have the rubber band feel along the edge like at first the owner rubber banded them before sticking the sets in plastic bags by set.  PSA candidates that will never see the light of day with PSA.....
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on March 04, 2021, 01:08:50 PM
but...you don't need PSA to define nice condition....so investment value is of course part of it.  My keeper collection is super nice and meets my eye appeal.  Why on earth would I need to have them all slabbed by PSA?  the ONLY reason I would do that is resale investment value.  PSA is not any smarter about what I like than me..... and we can see PSA is grading eye appeal, not true card centering.

The only way to buy right now is on eBay because thereís no shows, and most people take their 144p Polaroid images and upload them for us to see. At that point, buying them is impotent because I have no clue what Iím getting into. I have a better indication of grade when buying a slabbed card, and from there I will go further with my discretion to determine what Iím buying. I also like the lowkey competition aspect of PSA, so thatís something else.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on March 04, 2021, 01:15:36 PM
Speaking of...

(https://i.postimg.cc/Ln7R3XWG/A7-AD1-E09-A0-C0-4148-9-F18-AE9-C5-EDD77-E9.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Ln7R3XWG)
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: jleonard1967 on March 04, 2021, 03:41:16 PM
Speaking of...

(https://i.postimg.cc/Ln7R3XWG/A7-AD1-E09-A0-C0-4148-9-F18-AE9-C5-EDD77-E9.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Ln7R3XWG)
Nice card Mark.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: ToadallyDude on March 24, 2021, 12:23:12 PM
so of course I buy another collection(series 1-15) and the white backs in series 2, 14 and 15 are as nice and white and pristine as any I have ever seen.  I can almost smell gum these seem so fresh.  These cards clearly stayed with one owner and stored away.  The only issue is some have the rubber band feel along the edge like at first the owner rubber banded them before sticking the sets in plastic bags by set.  PSA candidates that will never see the light of day with PSA.....

I commend you, my old friend, on your resolve not to PSA.  If everything in the world got "slabbed", we'd never actually handle anything anymore.  Trading cards aren't so bad as you can still appreciate the full front and back... but comic books don't make any sense to slab unless they're miraculous 10's that you'd never even touch with gloves, as it just reduces them to "covers" rather than books.  Seems to me the only thing worth paying to get authenticated is autographs, but then again, it's still just someone's opinion. 

Can you image what we'd all have said as kids if some dude in a suit popped out of the ice-cream truck right after we unwrapped a pristine 4th series pack and snatched our "Bum Chex" out of our hands, charging us $20 to put it in a plastic box before we could add it to our rubberbanded stack and pencil it in on the checklist?  I'm thinking slingshot to the groin with a half-eaten 'gob-stopper'.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: quas on March 25, 2021, 04:03:20 AM
I commend you, my old friend, on your resolve not to PSA.  If everything in the world got "slabbed", we'd never actually handle anything anymore.  Trading cards aren't so bad as you can still appreciate the full front and back... but comic books don't make any sense to slab unless they're miraculous 10's that you'd never even touch with gloves, as it just reduces them to "covers" rather than books.  Seems to me the only thing worth paying to get authenticated is autographs, but then again, it's still just someone's opinion. 

Can you image what we'd all have said as kids if some dude in a suit popped out of the ice-cream truck right after we unwrapped a pristine 4th series pack and snatched our "Bum Chex" out of our hands, charging us $20 to put it in a plastic box before we could add it to our rubberbanded stack and pencil it in on the checklist?  I'm thinking slingshot to the groin with a half-eaten 'gob-stopper'.

Agree 100% on comic books (and magazines).
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Yubum on March 25, 2021, 08:14:35 AM

...comic books don't make any sense to slab unless they're miraculous 10's that you'd never even touch with gloves, as it just reduces them to "covers" rather than books.  Seems to me the only thing worth paying to get authenticated is autographs, but then again, it's still just someone's opinion. 


I'm guessing you're not a comic collector, but for those who are (like myself) comic grading is invaluable and has grown the hobby by leaps and bounds. Gone are the days when raw comics were the only option and unscrupulous sellers at shows could routinely try to hawk raw comics they knew (or often didn't know) had been altered by nearly undetectable color touch and/or trimming of the covers. CGC grading offers buyers protection against restoration and confirmation the comic they've bought has been accurately graded (extra important in this age of eBay). Once the comic is in hand, feel free to crack it out and read it, admire it and add it to your collection. And for sellers, having your comic graded means a far better chance of recouping fair market value vs. the potential pitfalls of trying to sell ungraded comics.

Of course, this doesn't mean all comics should be graded, but nowadays nearly all comics worth $100 or more will fare far better on the open market with the price of grading (which can be as low as $16) added. Additionally, as someone who collects comics, cards, coins, stamps, etc., I can tell you that graded comics are by far the most liquid collectible.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Paul_Maul on March 25, 2021, 08:26:40 AM
I'm guessing you're not a comic collector, but for those who are (like myself) comic grading is invaluable and has grown the hobby by leaps and bounds. Gone are the days when raw comics were the only option and unscrupulous sellers at shows could routinely try to hawk raw comics they knew (or often didn't know) had been altered by nearly undetectable color touch and/or trimming of the covers. CGC grading offers buyers protection against restoration and confirmation the comic they've bought has been accurately graded (extra important in this age of eBay). Once the comic is in hand, feel free to crack it out and read it, admire it and add it to your collection. And for sellers, having your comic graded means a far better chance of recouping fair market value vs. the potential pitfalls of trying to sell ungraded comics.

Of course, this doesn't mean all comics should be graded, but nowadays nearly all comics worth $100 or more will fare far better on the open market with the price of grading (which can be as low as $16) added. Additionally, as someone who collects comics, cards, coins, stamps, etc., I can tell you that graded comics are by far the most liquid collectible.

Right on all counts. The older CGC cases donít really present well, but the new ones are better, and also better in protecting against damage while shipping.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Paul_Maul on March 25, 2021, 08:29:07 AM
This style of case presents really well. And this is for collectible comics, if you want ones to read, you can buy trade paperbacks or beat up reader copies.

(https://i.postimg.cc/59RC6wkc/6-BFBC55-B-E648-4-A28-B5-E7-B936-DADF412-C.jpg)

Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Yubum on March 25, 2021, 08:38:49 AM
This style of case presents really well. And this is for collectible comics, if you want ones to read, you can buy trade paperbacks or beat up reader copies.

(https://i.postimg.cc/59RC6wkc/6-BFBC55-B-E648-4-A28-B5-E7-B936-DADF412-C.jpg)

Beautiful, perfectly centered copy with razor sharp corners - hard to believe it isn't a 9.8!

Graded (which costs $16 for 1975 or later) it easily sells for $100+
Ungraded (on eBay) you would be lucky to get $20...
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Paul_Maul on March 25, 2021, 08:44:58 AM
Funny how some 9.6s look awful these days, but others look great. Must be a function of what kind of defects bother one....

(https://i.postimg.cc/9MqD6fy4/AFBA386-F-FF31-482-F-8650-D227448-CB3-A1.jpg)
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Yubum on March 25, 2021, 08:53:03 AM
Funny how some 9.6s look awful these days, but others look great. Must be a function of what kind of defects bother one....

(https://i.postimg.cc/9MqD6fy4/AFBA386-F-FF31-482-F-8650-D227448-CB3-A1.jpg)

CGC isn't nearly as tough on centering as they should be, especially when compared to almost all other collectibles where proper centering is essential to a good grade.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: bandaches on March 25, 2021, 10:13:05 AM
Beautiful, perfectly centered copy with razor sharp corners - hard to believe it isn't a 9.8!

Graded (which costs $16 for 1975 or later) it easily sells for $100+
Ungraded (on eBay) you would be lucky to get $20...
ok so grading it recovers the cost of grading and provides peace of mind since there is high criminal activity in comics.  Why buy a highly graded item that you will never crack open?  Assuming you are paying fair market value when you purchased it, you are hoping it will go up in value?  Why would demand suddenly increase when the number of people who collect these for nostalgic value are dying off?  Won't these eventually drop in value like early 1900s tin soldiers?  Is the whole thing like the stock market where people "hope" the next person in line wants to pay more for a stock that will NEVER pay dividends?
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: freetoes on March 25, 2021, 10:35:11 AM
Funny how some 9.6s look awful these days, but others look great. Must be a function of what kind of defects bother one....

(https://i.postimg.cc/9MqD6fy4/AFBA386-F-FF31-482-F-8650-D227448-CB3-A1.jpg)

I had this issue. I bought it right around the time of Raymond Bradley's birthday party in fourth grade. Mine was nowhere near a 9.6, but I remember the artwork very well.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Yubum on March 25, 2021, 10:46:53 AM
ok so grading it recovers the cost of grading and provides peace of mind since there is high criminal activity in comics.

I would say more peace of mind in relation to poor grading on a seller's part than criminal activity (I am assuming you are calling undisclosed restoration a crime)

Why buy a highly graded item that you will never crack open?  Assuming you are paying fair market value when you purchased it, you are hoping it will go up in value?

Yes, there are comic collectors who approach the hobby as an investment and, based on recent sales, are making a boatload of money doing so.

Why would demand suddenly increase when the number of people who collect these for nostalgic value are dying off?  Won't these eventually drop in value like early 1900s tin soldiers?  Is the whole thing like the stock market where people "hope" the next person in line wants to pay more for a stock that will NEVER pay dividends?

Dying off? You do realize that comics are still being printed and that many of these modern issues are selling for four figures. Instagram is filled with 20-something collectors who can't get enough of comics from all ages. And the movies and TV (Disney Channel - WandaVision, etc) are being fueled by comics. Trust me, comic collecting has exploded in popularity and the prices being paid for graded comics reflect the current state of the hobby.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Paul_Maul on March 25, 2021, 11:19:07 AM
Why buy a highly graded item that you will never crack open?

I donít understand this question. I am not buying CGC comics to read. I own tons of trade paperbacks and often buy low grade comics when I feel like reading them. I buy high grade comics because, for whatever reason, I enjoy having items from my childhood in nice condition. It is not intended as an investment, though monetary appreciation is certainly welcome. They make me happy. As a collector yourself I donít really understand why this is so hard to understand.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: RawGoo on March 25, 2021, 12:50:52 PM

Dying off? You do realize that comics are still being printed and that many of these modern issues are selling for four figures. Instagram is filled with 20-something collectors who can't get enough of comics from all ages. And the movies and TV (Disney Channel - WandaVision, etc) are being fueled by comics. Trust me, comic collecting has exploded in popularity and the prices being paid for graded comics reflect the current state of the hobby.

These comments prompted me to look up some comics on ebay, and I see that even my Star Trek Gold Key/Whitman comics are back in demand.  Those ran from 1967 into the late 70's.  For a while, when I was trying to sell them off there was little interest, so I gave up.  I hope shows come back soon, maybe I can sell the 1-61 run to a dealer.

Unfortunately, I don't think I have any DC books from that far back.  Probably some Batman books back to 1984, and a long run starting around #400.  There are at least 4 boxes of comics here; I never really gave any thought to grading them, and I think it would be more work and expense than I would want to commit to.  Aside from the grading fees, I imagine the shipping adds up quickly!  Those full long boxes are now too heavy for me to pick up  :sad:

Thinking on it further, it might be worth grading the first 10 or so Star Treks, with the color photo covers.  As I recall, they are in pretty nice shape.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Yubum on March 25, 2021, 01:03:08 PM
These comments prompted me to look up some comics on ebay, and I see that even my Star Trek Gold Key/Whitman comics are back in demand.  Those ran from 1967 into the late 70's.  For a while, when I was trying to sell them off there was little interest, so I gave up.  I hope shows come back soon, maybe I can sell the 1-61 run to a dealer.

Unfortunately, I don't think I have any DC books from that far back.  Probably some Batman books back to 1984, and a long run starting around #400.  There are at least 4 boxes of comics here; I never really gave any thought to grading them, and I think it would be more work and expense than I would want to commit to.  Aside from the grading fees, I imagine the shipping adds up quickly!  Those full long boxes are now too heavy for me to pick up  :sad:

Thinking on it further, it might be worth grading the first 10 or so Star Treks, with the color photo covers.  As I recall, they are in pretty nice shape.

If your Star Trek comics are in good condition they will definitely be in demand, as are many of the Batman comics from the mid 1980s. Condition is the main thing - in high grade nearly every comic from those eras will command a premium. If you can't find a local dealer interested you may want to try MyComicShop (mycomicshop.com). They take comics on consignment and, if your comics are ungraded but worth sending to CGC, will take care of the grading for you before listing them. You can also list ungraded comics there, but I believe the minimum value is $50. I have listed and sold many comics there (and bought lots too) and I can assure you they are first rate to deal with.

Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: bandaches on March 26, 2021, 12:34:54 PM
I donít understand this question. I am not buying CGC comics to read. I own tons of trade paperbacks and often buy low grade comics when I feel like reading them. I buy high grade comics because, for whatever reason, I enjoy having items from my childhood in nice condition. It is not intended as an investment, though monetary appreciation is certainly welcome. They make me happy. As a collector yourself I donít really understand why this is so hard to understand.
It is very hard for me to understand, I would never pay thousands of $ for a high graded band-ache ludlow when that money can be put towards something fun like an RV that I can enjoy with my family.  Not sure why this is so hard to understand.  Clearly you wouldn't do this if there was a chance all the value would drop on these things so value seems would be part of the equation but you insist it isnt therefore it isn't for you but think you are in the minority.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: bandaches on March 26, 2021, 12:42:12 PM
I would say more peace of mind in relation to poor grading on a seller's part than criminal activity (I am assuming you are calling undisclosed restoration a crime)

Yes, there are comic collectors who approach the hobby as an investment and, based on recent sales, are making a boatload of money doing so.

Dying off? You do realize that comics are still being printed and that many of these modern issues are selling for four figures. Instagram is filled with 20-something collectors who can't get enough of comics from all ages. And the movies and TV (Disney Channel - WandaVision, etc) are being fueled by comics. Trust me, comic collecting has exploded in popularity and the prices being paid for graded comics reflect the current state of the hobby.
why not buy every graded comic you can get your hands on given their value is almost certain to explode?  Demand is clearly driven by speculation here.  Nothing intrinsically is making an already graded coming go up in value.  As more old comics are graded, it seems supply will increase so this speculation based bonanza needs demand to out pace the increasing supply.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Yubum on March 26, 2021, 02:25:49 PM
why not buy every graded comic you can get your hands on given their value is almost certain to explode? 

Unfortunately, that is not the case. The vast majority of comics that are collected and have been exploding in value are Marvel comics. The DC that Paul_Maul collects - especially Superman - has barely moved in value despite the current surge in prices. The only hot DC right now is Batman (and always has been).

I don't know if you remember Harvey comics? I loved these when I was a kid in the 70s and have a collection from 1974-75 (the years I read them - I quickly outgrew them). Because these comics were bought by pre-teens off a comic rack and read and read and read (and collected by no one at the time) they are almost impossible to find in high (near mint) grade. And if you do find them in high grade off eBay you always run the risk of them being damaged in shipping.

For this reason whenever I see a graded NM Richie Rich from the years that I collect I almost always buy them. CGC graded guarantees the grade for me and also offers significant protection during shipping. I end up paying a premium for these (usually $75+) but if I don't I have almost zero chance of finding them in high grade - which is how I want them (and they look great in the CGC cases). Believe me, they are not an investment. I am pretty sure there are only a handful of collectors who chase Bronze Age Harvey and if I ever sold them I would be lucky to break even after shipping etc.

When it comes to grading you are obviously not a fan, but that is just one of the reasons why having collectibles graded appeals to me.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Paul_Maul on March 26, 2021, 02:55:56 PM
My first love is Bronze Age Superman books but I do collect some Marvels also. Primarily Spidey and X-Men.

(https://i.postimg.cc/sDPmCGxk/E256-A8-AE-4-E04-4-F08-8-D65-136-BE0-BC245-D.jpg)

(https://i.postimg.cc/FKzVSPpv/6835-FD8-D-347-E-46-E3-88-BB-F15-F55-DCD2-A1.jpg)

Iíve always wondered how CGC deals with a print flaw like this Spidey 101. There is no paper loss, it is just white spots resulting from some printing anomaly. Except for that it is nice.

(https://i.postimg.cc/g018ZGry/B7-A9820-E-0721-4-ED7-86-D9-5-CE41-FE2-CF90.jpg)
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Alexeirex on March 26, 2021, 03:11:10 PM
Unfortunately, that is not the case. The vast majority of comics that are collected and have been exploding in value are Marvel comics. The DC that Paul_Maul collects - especially Superman - has barely moved in value despite the current surge in prices. The only hot DC right now is Batman (and always has been).

I don't know if you remember Harvey comics? I loved these when I was a kid in the 70s and have a collection from 1974-75 (the years I read them - I quickly outgrew them). Because these comics were bought by pre-teens off a comic rack and read and read and read (and collected by no one at the time) they are almost impossible to find in high (near mint) grade. And if you do find them in high grade off eBay you always run the risk of them being damaged in shipping.

For this reason whenever I see a graded NM Richie Rich from the years that I collect I almost always buy them. CGC graded guarantees the grade for me and also offers significant protection during shipping. I end up paying a premium for these (usually $75+) but if I don't I have almost zero chance of finding them in high grade - which is how I want them (and they look great in the CGC cases). Believe me, they are not an investment. I am pretty sure there are only a handful of collectors who chase Bronze Age Harvey and if I ever sold them I would be lucky to break even after shipping etc.

When it comes to grading you are obviously not a fan, but that is just one of the reasons why having collectibles graded appeals to me.

The same goes for Archie comics from the 60s and 70s - read and re-read over and over and no one was really collecting them to put away in mint condition. You're only chance of finding them unread is if they came in comic book discounted packs that are unopened. Not that they are worth a lot of money, but are nearly impossible to find. I always appreciate seeing a mint silver age comic!
Every once in awhile I would see old minty Harveys and Gold Key comics as pubishers copies on Ebay - assume these came from old printer archives. I had read that William Gaines kept mint wrapped unread issues of Mad comics from the beginning so that makes sense - Alex
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Yubum on March 26, 2021, 03:20:01 PM
My first love is Bronze Age Superman books but I do collect some Marvels also. Primarily Spidey and X-Men.

(https://i.postimg.cc/sDPmCGxk/E256-A8-AE-4-E04-4-F08-8-D65-136-BE0-BC245-D.jpg)

(https://i.postimg.cc/FKzVSPpv/6835-FD8-D-347-E-46-E3-88-BB-F15-F55-DCD2-A1.jpg)

Iíve always wondered how CGC deals with a print flaw like this Spidey 101. There is no paper loss, it is just white spots resulting from some printing anomaly. Except for that it is nice.

(https://i.postimg.cc/g018ZGry/B7-A9820-E-0721-4-ED7-86-D9-5-CE41-FE2-CF90.jpg)


X-Men is always in demand and that ASM #300 (1st Venom) has gone off the charts. Still kicking myself for selling my CGC 9.2 copy thinking I would upgrade some day...

Those spots are weird. Are you sure it is a printing defect? Looks more like a tape pull.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Yubum on March 26, 2021, 03:23:52 PM
The same goes for Archie comics from the 60s and 70s - read and re-read over and over and no one was really collecting them to put away in mint condition. You're only chance of finding them unread is if they came in comic book discounted packs that are unopened. Not that they are worth a lot of money, but are nearly impossible to find. I always appreciate seeing a mint silver age comic!
Every once in awhile I would see old minty Harveys and Gold Key comics as pubishers copies on Ebay - assume these came from old printer archives. I had read that William Gaines kept mint wrapped unread issues of Mad comics from the beginning so that makes sense - Alex

Most of my near mint Harvey comics are file copies that the publisher saved and were sold after the company folded.

I wish I had some of those Gaines File Copies. William Gaines kept 12 fresh copies of every comic EC ever printed in file cabinets in his office. When they were finally sold they became a pedigree and are in almost every case the nicest copies of EC comics available (many were destroyed during the anti-comic backlash during the 1950s) and are always in high demand!
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: RawGoo on March 26, 2021, 03:34:57 PM
If your Star Trek comics are in good condition they will definitely be in demand, as are many of the Batman comics from the mid 1980s. Condition is the main thing - in high grade nearly every comic from those eras will command a premium. If you can't find a local dealer interested you may want to try MyComicShop (mycomicshop.com). They take comics on consignment and, if your comics are ungraded but worth sending to CGC, will take care of the grading for you before listing them. You can also list ungraded comics there, but I believe the minimum value is $50. I have listed and sold many comics there (and bought lots too) and I can assure you they are first rate to deal with.

Thanks for the tips!  I'm hoping to look through my comics over the weekend, but I have some heavy lifting to do first.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Paul_Maul on March 26, 2021, 03:50:34 PM
X-Men is always in demand and that ASM #300 (1st Venom) has gone off the charts. Still kicking myself for selling my CGC 9.2 copy thinking I would upgrade some day...

Those spots are weird. Are you sure it is a printing defect? Looks more like a tape pull.

Not a tape pull. Definitely a print defect.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: RawGoo on March 26, 2021, 03:51:05 PM
X-Men is always in demand and that ASM #300 (1st Venom) has gone off the charts. Still kicking myself for selling my CGC 9.2 copy thinking I would upgrade some day...


Wow, those prices are incredible!  I remember seeing that in the comic store when it came out.  Don't think I bought it, though - money was tight back then, and I was mostly buying the Batman family of books.  I had those on reserve every week.  Read them carefully, and then bagged and boxed them. 

But, seeing as how it is a 300th issue, I might have bought one to put away.  Must look!

Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: DrSushi on March 26, 2021, 04:49:05 PM
If only a near full run of PLOP! would sell for enough so I can retire.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Alexeirex on March 26, 2021, 05:08:51 PM
Most of my near mint Harvey comics are file copies that the publisher saved and were sold after the company folded.

I wish I had some of those Gaines File Copies. William Gaines kept 12 fresh copies of every comic EC ever printed in file cabinets in his office. When they were finally sold they became a pedigree and are in almost every case the nicest copies of EC comics available (many were destroyed during the anti-comic backlash during the 1950s) and are always in high demand!

File copies!!! Yes, that was the term. Was great to see minty copies of Harvey comics from the late 50s to the 60s on ebay - no way they would have stayed mint at my house! A
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: bandaches on March 28, 2021, 01:01:11 PM
Unfortunately, that is not the case. The vast majority of comics that are collected and have been exploding in value are Marvel comics. The DC that Paul_Maul collects - especially Superman - has barely moved in value despite the current surge in prices. The only hot DC right now is Batman (and always has been).

I don't know if you remember Harvey comics? I loved these when I was a kid in the 70s and have a collection from 1974-75 (the years I read them - I quickly outgrew them). Because these comics were bought by pre-teens off a comic rack and read and read and read (and collected by no one at the time) they are almost impossible to find in high (near mint) grade. And if you do find them in high grade off eBay you always run the risk of them being damaged in shipping.

For this reason whenever I see a graded NM Richie Rich from the years that I collect I almost always buy them. CGC graded guarantees the grade for me and also offers significant protection during shipping. I end up paying a premium for these (usually $75+) but if I don't I have almost zero chance of finding them in high grade - which is how I want them (and they look great in the CGC cases). Believe me, they are not an investment. I am pretty sure there are only a handful of collectors who chase Bronze Age Harvey and if I ever sold them I would be lucky to break even after shipping etc.

When it comes to grading you are obviously not a fan, but that is just one of the reasons why having collectibles graded appeals to me.
I am not I following but you buy them graded for shipping protection?  I still have all my richie Rich and Dennis the Menace comics heavily read but in a bin somewhere.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: MoldRush on March 29, 2021, 05:37:59 PM
Of course, this doesn't mean all comics should be graded, but nowadays nearly all comics worth $100 or more will fare far better on the open market with the price of grading (which can be as low as $16) added. Additionally, as someone who collects comics, cards, coins, stamps, etc., I can tell you that graded comics are by far the most liquid collectible.
On a few past occasions I bought some short comic runs on ebay that happened to be in superb condition, not because I was necessarily shooting for top grade books - just threw out a modest bid and ended up winning, which happens quite a bit with eBay, especially if you bid on a variety of things.  I thought that if I ever submitted any books for certified grading it would be those.  Then, a few years ago I read somewhere that high-grade Marvel books become much more abundant when the cover price reached 30 cents, circa 1976.  Well wouldnít you know it, all the aforementioned books fall precisely in that class - Captain America low #200ís, Hulk low 200ís, Captain Marvel 40ís-50ís.  So much for thinking I lucked out and got valuable books on the cheap.

As for Harveys and Archies, just finding clean copies without writing on or in them is a major win IMO.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Paul_Maul on March 30, 2021, 04:51:08 PM
PSA has suspended all submissions (except super express - $300 a card - and up) until at least July 1.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: RawGoo on March 31, 2021, 02:33:53 AM
PSA has suspended all submissions (except super express - $300 a card - and up) until at least July 1.

Geez, a crazy surge in submissions right after they raised their rates?  "We recently received more cards in three days than we did during the previous three months."  Maybe people were afraid of the next rate increase?  Or, someone found a warehouse full of cards.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: bandaches on March 31, 2021, 07:31:34 AM
Geez, a crazy surge in submissions right after they raised their rates?  "We recently received more cards in three days than we did during the previous three months."  Maybe people were afraid of the next rate increase?  Or, someone found a warehouse full of cards.
I am feeling pretty confident in my predictions early, the days of $15 grading specials are gone forever.  This should be good news for the folks with current PSA graded wackys as the flood of PSA material will stop but of course this "smaller" wacky packages market will move on to PSA competitors which will then become the new norm for wacky grading.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: jeffcaff on April 01, 2021, 08:16:50 AM
Beckett has raised their pricing to $20 per card.  CGC is now at $20.00 per card as well. I don't see anything below $75.00 per card on SGC.  CSG and GMA are only $8 per card in bulk but I have no idea who they are.  Not sure if I am missing any other major card graders. 
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Archive
Post by: Paul_Maul on April 07, 2021, 10:41:23 AM
Picked up a triple upgrade from cardster....from a toned, PSA 8 possible wonder bread to a nice white, two asterisk PSA 9!



I just found out today that Tom Reynolds (aka lightningboy on the CU forum, aka cardster1 on eBay) died unexpectedly last August. I realize no one here knew him, but he was a good guy, an avid collector and had a soft spot for wackys. He had a real knack for finding nice collections. I bought some of my favorite graded wackys from him over the years. RIP Tom.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Archive
Post by: Yubum on April 07, 2021, 11:24:35 AM
I just found out today that Tom Reynolds (aka lightningboy on the CU forum, aka cardster1 on eBay) died unexpectedly last August. I realize no one here knew him, but he was a good guy, an avid collector and had a soft spot for wackys. He had a real knack for finding nice collections. I bought some of my favorite graded wackys from him over the years. RIP Tom.

Sad news, I picked up my Blurine PSA 8 from cardster1 via eBay last May. My condolences to his family, friends and all who knew and loved him. RIP Tom.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on April 18, 2021, 02:56:41 PM
Expensive

(https://i.postimg.cc/Mfv46npm/B05928-E4-66-C1-423-C-9361-4894571-B6-ECC.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Mfv46npm)
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: jleonard1967 on April 18, 2021, 03:24:08 PM
ahhh, throwing your hat into the 16th series ring I see.  Lots of competition in that end of the pool  ;)
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on April 19, 2021, 03:59:34 AM
ahhh, throwing your hat into the 16th series ring I see.  Lots of coipition in that end of the pool  ;)

Yeah, that was one of the cheaper ones on eBay and I like that card, so I went for it since I havenít bought anything in a while. Iíll probably end up selling my raw Ghoul Humor to make a portion of the money back because I donít have the entire series raw, so it isnít like Iím breaking a set.

Did you mean that thereís a lot of competition? I donít understand the second sentence.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Paul_Maul on April 19, 2021, 06:13:03 AM
Expensive

(https://i.postimg.cc/Mfv46npm/B05928-E4-66-C1-423-C-9361-4894571-B6-ECC.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Mfv46npm)

Congrats! I only have an 8.5!
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: bandaches on April 19, 2021, 08:03:10 AM
Congrats! I only have an 8.5!
Is PSA going to go to 2 significant decimals in the future?  Can one get an 8.7 or 8.75 or 8.99999999999999 which really is a 9 but really isn't?  8)
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on April 19, 2021, 12:09:33 PM
Is PSA going to go to 2 significant decimals in the future?  Can one get an 8.7 or 8.75 or 8.99999999999999 which really is a 9 but really isn't?  8)

I think the dead horse has been beat so hard itís somehow living again
Itís convulsing!

As someone who complains about PSAís inaccuracy, who are you to complain about more accurate grades?
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: bandaches on April 19, 2021, 01:03:47 PM
I think the dead horse has been beat so hard itís somehow living again
Itís convulsing!

As someone who complains about PSAís inaccuracy, who are you to complain about more accurate grades?
That is the funny part, you think decimals mean more accuracy with PSA when in fact it is nothing more than more confusing.  Think about it this way, if there was 8.1 to 8.9 grades out there, you really think that leads to more accuracy?  No chance....there will be 8.4's that appear better than 8.8s and even more endless debates but having 8.5 opens the door to why not a grade in between 8.5 and 9?  Have they always done decimals?  I doubt it which means some previously graded items are "really" 8.5s but they got 8's or 9's. The integrity of the whole grading system falls apart when the grading system changes but lets not pretend this is about integrity, this is about PSA making money and making sure their product is in demand.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on April 19, 2021, 01:36:35 PM
That is the funny part, you think decimals mean more accuracy with PSA when in fact it is nothing more than more confusing.  Think about it this way, if there was 8.1 to 8.9 grades out there, you really think that leads to more accuracy?  No chance....there will be 8.4's that appear better than 8.8s and even more endless debates but having 8.5 opens the door to why not a grade in between 8.5 and 9?  Have they always done decimals?  I doubt it which means some previously graded items are "really" 8.5s but they got 8's or 9's. The integrity of the whole grading system falls apart when the grading system changes but lets not pretend this is about integrity, this is about PSA making money and making sure their product is in demand.

Never said I think that an 8.1 or 3.14 should exist but thereís a great canyon between 8s and 9s, thatís why an 8.5 makes sense to me. And, again, I donít buy them because I love PSA but because I enjoy the competition behind it and the trust I have in the grade when I buy it. If I see a 9 that doesnít look like a 9, I donít buy it. Itís that simple.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: jleonard1967 on April 19, 2021, 01:40:15 PM
Yeah, that was one of the cheaper ones on eBay and I like that card, so I went for it since I havenít bought anything in a while. Iíll probably end up selling my raw Ghoul Humor to make a portion of the money back because I donít have the entire series raw, so it isnít like Iím breaking a set.

Did you mean that thereís a lot of competition? I donít understand the second sentence.
Yup, fixed it on the original post.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: bandaches on April 19, 2021, 09:53:39 PM
Never said I think that an 8.1 or 3.14 should exist but thereís a great canyon between 8s and 9s, thatís why an 8.5 makes sense to me. And, again, I donít buy them because I love PSA but because I enjoy the competition behind it and the trust I have in the grade when I buy it. If I see a 9 that doesnít look like a 9, I donít buy it. Itís that simple.
Wise move to interject your own opinion when evaluating these for sure!  A big part of this is who has the best overall set and there really is no such thing when PSA8s from years ago would really be PSA 8.5s now.  Also, I see very little reference to .5s on the POP report, what is up with that?  There should be more 8.5s than 9's.  Are there .5s between all grade or just 8 and 9 or is there really no rule to this?
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: mikecho on April 19, 2021, 10:26:32 PM
Congrats! I only have an 8.5!
8.5 means 8 1/2, right?
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on April 20, 2021, 03:32:48 AM
Wise move to interject your own opinion when evaluating these for sure!  A big part of this is who has the best overall set and there really is no such thing when PSA8s from years ago would really be PSA 8.5s now.  Also, I see very little reference to .5s on the POP report, what is up with that?  There should be more 8.5s than 9's.  Are there .5s between all grade or just 8 and 9 or is there really no rule to this?

Your entire monologue about confusion is an opinion, so whatís in it for me explaining mine? I feel like youíre still only saying this because YOU have some vendetta against PSA even though youíre only grasping for straws finding ďevidenceĒ against them. Why canít we just enjoy the cards?
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Paul_Maul on April 20, 2021, 06:02:40 AM
In case itís not obvious, there is no such thing as a ďbest set.Ē Impatient rich folk will almost always be ďflip buyersĒ and so the highest graded sets usually donít have great eye appeal unless the collector happens to value that. PSA 10s mean nothing to me, my 1972 baseball set has so many PSA 9s that look perfect, I canít imagine caring about getting a 10.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Yubum on April 20, 2021, 07:36:26 AM
In case it’s not obvious, there is no such thing as a “best set.” Impatient rich folk will almost always be “flip buyers” and so the highest graded sets usually don’t have great eye appeal unless the collector happens to value that. PSA 10s mean nothing to me, my 1972 baseball set has so many PSA 9s that look perfect, I can’t imagine caring about getting a 10.

I find even most well-centered PSA 8 cards look fresh out of the pack to my untrained eye. I can't imagine what criteria they use to distinguish a 9 from a 10.

I have always liked what CGC does with comic grading where, for the most part when it comes to vintage comics i.e. pre-1980, perfect 10s do not exist. The rate must be like one in a million comics graded. NM/M CGC 9.8 is basically the highest grade possible, and still ultra rare when it comes to the Silver Age or earlier.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: bigtomi on April 20, 2021, 11:25:03 AM
8.5 means 8 1/2, right?
Very good, you get a gold star on today's math quiz.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: bandaches on April 20, 2021, 04:35:27 PM
Your entire monologue about confusion is an opinion, so whatís in it for me explaining mine? I feel like youíre still only saying this because YOU have some vendetta against PSA even though youíre only grasping for straws finding ďevidenceĒ against them. Why canít we just enjoy the cards?
LOL vendetta and grasping at straws?  Evidence for what?, just calling the buffoonery of the PSA grading system.  You will see I don't like when companies enrich themselves at the expense of collectors as we tend to get very locked in on things and pour money into it.  Super Impulse anyone?  PSA baffoonery grading system, ebay fees( I love love love cutting ebay out of deals), I was the one who tried to kick off the "yield on ebay club with the MAG8 collectors so we weren't unnecessarily enriching sellers with our collector money.....etc....you guys have far better eye than PSA, save the money and encapsulate them yourselves as many have said they have some PSA 8s they prefer than PSA9s....um yeah, based on their own discerning eye!  Yes of course in terms of trying to detect forgery and such on super high priced items if in fact PSA really can filter those out, have them authenticate.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: bandaches on April 20, 2021, 04:36:46 PM
In case itís not obvious, there is no such thing as a ďbest set.Ē Impatient rich folk will almost always be ďflip buyersĒ and so the highest graded sets usually donít have great eye appeal unless the collector happens to value that. PSA 10s mean nothing to me, my 1972 baseball set has so many PSA 9s that look perfect, I canít imagine caring about getting a 10.
"so the highest graded sets usually donít have great eye appeal" this is nutty!  Didn't you just acknowledge PSA grading is a crock of crap with that statement?
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Paul_Maul on April 20, 2021, 05:54:59 PM
"so the highest graded sets usually donít have great eye appeal" this is nutty!  Didn't you just acknowledge PSA grading is a crock of crap with that statement?

Well, I guess eye appeal is subjective. They donít penalize certain defects I find ugly, so I avoid those particular high grade cards. Other collectors care more about the numerical grade.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: bandaches on April 20, 2021, 10:42:41 PM
Well, I guess eye appeal is subjective. They donít penalize certain defects I find ugly, so I avoid those particular high grade cards. Other collectors care more about the numerical grade.
Why would high grade cards inherently have negative eye appeal?  Sorry I am clearly missing something here. I like your approach which is go what appeals to you and you have a great eye for this so I am still baffled why you would pay PSA to grade an item that you already love per your own eye appeal.  The only thing at that point you can possibly be chasing from PSA is their perception of the number, there is no other value they are providing you.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Paul_Maul on April 21, 2021, 01:50:09 AM
Why would high grade cards inherently have negative eye appeal?  Sorry I am clearly missing something here. I like your approach which is go what appeals to you and you have a great eye for this so I am still baffled why you would pay PSA to grade an item that you already love per your own eye appeal.  The only thing at that point you can possibly be chasing from PSA is their perception of the number, there is no other value they are providing you.

1. A PSA 9/10 quality card is rarely available ungraded anymore.

2. It is difficult to assess card quality from eBay scans. The PSA grade doesnít guarantee I will like it, but it suggests certain hard to verify structural basics. My eyes can go from there.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on April 21, 2021, 07:27:19 AM
LOL vendetta and grasping at straws?  Evidence for what?, just calling the buffoonery of the PSA grading system.  You will see I don't like when companies enrich themselves at the expense of collectors as we tend to get very locked in on things and pour money into it.  Super Impulse anyone?  PSA baffoonery grading system, ebay fees( I love love love cutting ebay out of deals), I was the one who tried to kick off the "yield on ebay club with the MAG8 collectors so we weren't unnecessarily enriching sellers with our collector money.....etc....you guys have far better eye than PSA, save the money and encapsulate them yourselves as many have said they have some PSA 8s they prefer than PSA9s....um yeah, based on their own discerning eye!  Yes of course in terms of trying to detect forgery and such on super high priced items if in fact PSA really can filter those out, have them authenticate.

Okay, Iíll start up my own grading business.

Come one, come all! Iíll grade your Wackys... just need a $500,000 Kickstarter fund
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: bandaches on April 21, 2021, 11:21:58 AM
Okay, Iíll start up my own grading business.

Come one, come all! Iíll grade your Wackys... just need a $500,000 Kickstarter fund
LOL nope not quite sure you are getting the point....grade your own wackys for yourself and keep the ones that meet your eye appeal and encapsulate them with screw downs.  No money needs to change hands and owner is happy assuming there really has nothing to do with the PSA number....
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: MoldRush on April 21, 2021, 02:47:00 PM
LOL nope not quite sure you are getting the point....grade your own wackys for yourself and keep the ones that meet your eye appeal and encapsulate them with screw downs.  No money needs to change hands and owner is happy assuming there really has nothing to do with the PSA number....
Itís a valid point - if PSAís grading standards, whether placing too much weight on defects that donít bother you or too little on defects that do, or just inconsistently applying different standards at different times, are such that a collector would not accept their 8 or 9 as satisfactory sight unseen, then your personal grading standards are higher, or at least different from, PSAís, so why not find raw cards that have the kind of eye appeal youíre after, preserve them in your own 1-card snaps, and forego all those insane fees?
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Paul_Maul on April 21, 2021, 03:22:35 PM
...so why not find raw cards that have the kind of eye appeal youíre after, preserve them in your own 1-card snaps, and forego all those insane fees?

At the risk of stating the obvious, because itís hard to find wackys in perfect condition ungraded, and even if such a sticker is on eBay, itís hard to tell how nice it is from eBay pictures. You have to buy huge collections then flip 99.9% of them. Iíd rather by (a subset) of high graded stickers with eye appeal I like. Even though it can be expensive, itís a lot easier.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: jleonard1967 on April 21, 2021, 06:47:25 PM
LOL nope not quite sure you are getting the point....grade your own wackys for yourself and keep the ones that meet your eye appeal and encapsulate them with screw downs.  No money needs to change hands and owner is happy assuming there really has nothing to do with the PSA number....
Screw downs are very bad for cards, do not use screw down holders it compresses the fibers of the card.  You will get (min siz req) as a body bag on your cards
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: MoldRush on April 21, 2021, 07:07:01 PM
Understood, I was thinking mainly about collectors who are seeking strong grades in certain respects that are important to them, but not necessarily absolute perfection.  I probably donít have the most well-trained eye for what places a card in the PSA 9.0 to 10.0 stratosphere, so I could be clueless as to the relative scarcity of cards that would make that cut.  I was just recently thumbing through a few hundred common stickers from Series 3 to 8 that I had bought in various eBay lots over the years, and a lot of them look really nice and sharp to me, but for all I know, maybe none of them top a 6.0.

Given the relatively poor production standards of the era, the fragility of the flimsy card stock and tendency toward yellowing/browning over time, top-grade Wacky collectors really have their work cut out for them. 
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: bandaches on April 21, 2021, 07:58:12 PM
At the risk of stating the obvious, because itís hard to find wackys in perfect condition ungraded, and even if such a sticker is on eBay, itís hard to tell how nice it is from eBay pictures. You have to buy huge collections then flip 99.9% of them. Iíd rather by (a subset) of high graded stickers with eye appeal I like. Even though it can be expensive, itís a lot easier.
Why is it so much easier to determine eye appeal of PSA items on ebay versus unslabbed items on ebay? Lets assume you seek a particular title in high grade, Kook Aid.  You look at non slabbed auctions that have Kook Aid scans and pick one no differently than picking one of the PSA slabbed ones on ebay.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: bandaches on April 21, 2021, 07:59:09 PM
Screw downs are very bad for cards, do not use screw down holders it compresses the fibers of the card.  You will get (min siz req) as a body bag on your cards
Fair enough, what is a good holder for single cards?  Snap tites?
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: bandaches on April 21, 2021, 08:01:19 PM
Understood, I was thinking mainly about collectors who are seeking strong grades in certain respects that are important to them, but not necessarily absolute perfection.  I probably donít have the most well-trained eye for what places a card in the PSA 9.0 to 10.0 stratosphere, so I could be clueless as to the relative scarcity of cards that would make that cut.  I was just recently thumbing through a few hundred common stickers from Series 3 to 8 that I had bought in various eBay lots over the years, and a lot of them look really nice and sharp to me, but for all I know, maybe none of them top a 6.0.

Given the relatively poor production standards of the era, the fragility of the flimsy card stock and tendency toward yellowing/browning over time, top-grade Wacky collectors really have their work cut out for them.
Interesting point, PSA9 vs PSA 10.  I doubt a glance of the card would detail the difference either so given you need a microscope to see the difference between PSA9 and PSA 10, eye appeal cant possibly be a determining factor.  Who the heck takes out their cards and uses a microscope to review and enjoy them?
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: MoldRush on April 21, 2021, 09:00:54 PM
Interesting point, PSA9 vs PSA 10.  I doubt a glance of the card would detail the difference either so given you need a microscope to see the difference between PSA9 and PSA 10, eye appeal cant possibly be a determining factor.  Who the heck takes out their cards and uses a microscope to review and enjoy them?
Maybe itís the thrill of the hunt that brings the most gratification, more than the slabbed cards themselves.  Iím sure there are those who experience a letdown after theyíve conquered their basic collection and all the tough titles, and want to take it to another level to keep that hunt going, maybe even on some level wanting to relive the fun of the original experience all over again.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: RawGoo on April 22, 2021, 12:25:25 AM
I just saw an article in my local newspaper -a Long Island company called Genamint Inc. has been bought by Collector's Universe/PSA for their technology that utilizes AI to grade cards.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: bandaches on April 22, 2021, 09:25:51 AM
Maybe itís the thrill of the hunt that brings the most gratification, more than the slabbed cards themselves.  Iím sure there are those who experience a letdown after theyíve conquered their basic collection and all the tough titles, and want to take it to another level to keep that hunt going, maybe even on some level wanting to relive the fun of the original experience all over again.
but it was stated here the PSA number doesn't itself matter.  Seems graded with eye appeal is the goal and not the monetary benefit of a higher grade.  Perhaps deep down there really is the excitement of the monetary value after all.  I know I just scored a sealed inflatable with two guys price tag on it, super excited about it as I find like one thing to add to my collection per year.  Excited about its rarity but I am honest about it that getting it for $30 and knowing it is worth way more than that is also part of the appeal.  Always funny to watch folks deny the "value" of item is not part of the deal.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: bandaches on April 22, 2021, 09:34:24 AM
I just saw an article in my local newspaper -a Long Island company called Genamint Inc. has been bought by Collector's Universe/PSA for their technology that utilizes AI to grade cards.
this is ABSOLUTELY the direction this was going to go.  It means the manual graders will mostly be let go and thru AI and high res scanning grades will be determined.  This will lead to higher consistency, lower cost for PSA to grade and then perhaps lower cost back to the collectors to have items graded.

In the cosmetics world, people's faces are scanned and thru examining down to the pores level, the right makeup and/or skin care is suggested and it emulates how the makeup will look as it does perfect color matching too. 

Centering analysis for cards that have off center placement on an uncut sheet will still be based on eye appeal of the centered borders and not true centering of the card per sheet placement but hey, it is a step towards consistency.  It will open the door for more decimals due to the more precision so get ready for more 8.6's in the future so everyone get ready to resubmit past PSA cards to find out the correct decimal placement.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Paul_Maul on April 22, 2021, 09:39:59 AM
Why is it so much easier to determine eye appeal of PSA items on ebay versus unslabbed items on ebay? Lets assume you seek a particular title in high grade, Kook Aid.  You look at non slabbed auctions that have Kook Aid scans and pick one no differently than picking one of the PSA slabbed ones on ebay.

The eye appeal aspect can be applied equally to graded and ungraded cards. The part that is difficult to discern on eBay is minute corner wear, warping, and other structural issues that are usually clear in hand but not from scans. I know a PSA 9 will generally have corners I am happy with. Thus, if it also has eye appeal I am happy with, I am likely to be pleased with the card.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: jleonard1967 on April 22, 2021, 12:06:05 PM
I just saw an article in my local newspaper -a Long Island company called Genamint Inc. has been bought by Collector's Universe/PSA for their technology that utilizes AI to grade cards.
https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/professional-sports-authenticator-acquires-genamint-to-introduce-next-generation-technology-to-grading-process-301273225.html
Should help with the resubmitting to get better grades.  That practice should stop then.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: MadMike on April 22, 2021, 08:59:24 PM
Did someone above mention a KOOK AID with eye appeal? No problem, I found one.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/202904530389?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: bandaches on April 23, 2021, 06:24:44 AM
https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/professional-sports-authenticator-acquires-genamint-to-introduce-next-generation-technology-to-grading-process-301273225.html
Should help with the resubmitting to get better grades.  That practice should stop then.
Its interesting they need the fingerprint of an item to stop it from being regraded, that shouldn't be necessary if their AI grading system is so good, it should pick up corrected flaws or should give the same grade over and over for a non modified submitted card, the subjective-ness from human graders being removed.  Trust me, they are going to allow resubmissions because it is $ for them and because with more precision comes more decimals.  If their AI grading system can site differences between two PSA 8's why make them both an 8?  The only question in my mind will be how many grades between 8 and 9 will they create?  thenths, quarters, thirds, halves?  I think they will pick a launching point for decimals like only PSa7 and higher or something.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: jeffcaff on April 23, 2021, 08:34:27 AM
From the news article.  "We're not eliminating humans from the grading process," he continued. "We're improving the process by adding technology."   I think I have heard this before.  No layoffs.  Don't believe it for a second.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: bigtomi on April 23, 2021, 10:25:21 AM
Did someone above mention a KOOK AID with eye appeal? No problem, I found one.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/202904530389?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649
LOL, not only is it NOT Scottish (it's crap!), it's not even a 1st series tan, it's a Wonderbread.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: jleonard1967 on April 23, 2021, 01:44:28 PM
Its interesting they need the fingerprint of an item to stop it from being regraded, that shouldn't be necessary if their AI grading system is so good, it should pick up corrected flaws or should give the same grade over and over for a non modified submitted card, the subjective-ness from human graders being removed.  Trust me, they are going to allow resubmissions because it is $ for them and because with more precision comes more decimals.  If their AI grading system can site differences between two PSA 8's why make them both an 8?  The only question in my mind will be how many grades between 8 and 9 will they create?  thenths, quarters, thirds, halves?  I think they will pick a launching point for decimals like only PSa7 and higher or something.
Interesting point, I don't think they will go the way comics did once it hit a 9.0 (9.2,9.4,9.6 and 9.8).  I do think the half grad is here to stay, in PSA grading standards they do explain why they use half point grades up to 8,5.  I do agree with their assessment of why they do this.  With the AI I think it will stop the resubmitting because of the hoping for the next grade factor will be eliminated.  Now why I like it is I can grade a card really good.  I come usually right on with what PSA grades it.  However I get it graded for many reasons.  1). I love the registry.  No other reason to go on about that point it is totally a subjective point.  2).  I sell the cards to people as I upgrade.  again I go with I know how to grade, bringing Dave into this I know he knows how to grade.  However John Smith from Washington state does not know me.  He has no Ideal why I am asking so much for a card, but with the graded card I have some consistency to offer and peace of mind with my collection to sell as I upgrade.  From what I read of the new owners of PSA (and their other grading services (coin, Paper money Stamps tickets, books) they are going to solidify the services and come back stronger as soon as they catch up from all the submissions.  CGC, is getting inundated with comic books that they are having the same pains that PSA is having.  (personally if psa would make a TGC group separate from cards it would go smoother.) F*&ki&g Pokemon cards gumming up the works.  There is a company, separate from PCGS that you can send a coin to once it is graded, I think it is called CAC.  They will tell you if the coin is at the top end for the grade (green sticker) or if it would be solid in the next grade up ( gold sticker). I am glad that we don't have that, but It makes me wonder not if but when this craze will hit cards.  PWCC already does this in their auctions, this actually is worse than the multitudes of decimals.  Sorry for the run here, just wanted to get the information out there.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on July 04, 2021, 02:37:19 AM
Since I havenít posted in a fair bit, hereís two cards that I would not have expected to get in these grades.

(https://i.postimg.cc/Yh8PtBRx/6-D7-DB5-F9-2-DCE-41-DF-89-C6-18307-A633-D9-B.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Yh8PtBRx)

(https://i.postimg.cc/9rcS3QdM/D36-DD8-D0-8-E77-43-AD-A198-1-DD3-F1550-D67.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/9rcS3QdM)

I just got the Capín Crud. Itís not perfect of course, but I jumped on it because the flaws donít bother me as much as the fact that I thought Iíd never find an 8 again if I passed on it.

The Botch is pretty nice in my opinion though, the centering is only off L to R slightly.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Paul_Maul on July 04, 2021, 06:05:16 AM
The Botch is great. Centering has never been my obsession, I think it looks fantastic, no tilt is the key for me.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Paul_Maul on July 04, 2021, 06:06:58 AM
I honestly donít think Iíve ever, ever seen a Capn Crud that is not cut funny in some way. I donít think a perfect one exists, and am sure all of the 9s and 10s are still cut funny.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on July 04, 2021, 06:30:54 AM
Yeah, Cap'n Cruds are a dime a hogshead for what I've seen. That is why I wasn't too distressed when I found that one on ePay for surprisingly cheap, especially because the last one supposedly sold for $395... which I would never pay, but it isn't what it isn't. I will say that I would have preferred it not being as toned, because that is more avoidable than the inevitable miscut galore.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Paul_Maul on July 04, 2021, 07:11:34 AM
I will say that I would have preferred it not being as toned, because that is more avoidable than the inevitable miscut galore.

Definitely, that could be partly why it sold for less, but prices fluctuate wildly. It is frustrating when trying to sell stuff, because I see reported sales for more than I am asking for certain cards, yet mine sit.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on August 07, 2021, 11:57:46 AM
(https://i.postimg.cc/56s6DfWT/1-B8-BAFD7-3-CDD-4-A04-9641-07765-BEFEE47.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/56s6DfWT) (https://i.postimg.cc/fJzVHJpY/482-FCB57-EF2-D-40-BB-B8-A8-7-A31-D9747-BDB.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/fJzVHJpY)

Waiting for PSA to give more reasonable prices to submit this one. And a few others. Planning on looking through my collection to find more stand outs, albeit I likely have very few. Might post more if anyoneís in a need for a fix of minty OS cards.  :D

As usual, pictures don't do it justice. Still haven't figured out a seamless way to get good images.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: JailOJohn on August 08, 2021, 08:34:15 AM
How do you folks store graded cards?
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on August 08, 2021, 09:34:02 AM
How do you folks store graded cards?

I just keep them stacked. One stack of series 5 (which I have almost completed), and one stack of everything else.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: jleonard1967 on August 11, 2021, 09:14:17 AM
For my commons There are Boxes designed to hold PSA cards.  For my actual collection I use pelican boxes (knock offs) from Harbor freight. 
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Paul_Maul on August 11, 2021, 10:00:47 AM
For my commons There are Boxes designed to hold PSA cards.  For my actual collection I use pelican boxes (knock offs) from Harbor freight.

Theyíre on sale!

https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1061630/apache-4800-cases-25-off-till-8-19
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: JailOJohn on August 11, 2021, 10:51:52 AM
I am sorry, maybe I should put this on another thread, since my wackys aren't slabbed. I clicked on Harbor Freight 4800, it showed like metal James Bond looking briefcase, foam inserts, but it looked like they were specifically for camera and lenses. Do you guys cut the foam?  I have unslabbed cards, so Im just using cardboard baseball card boxes that hold 300 or so, and have those in a plastic lidded bin that came from target. Does anyone here agree with the guy who messaged me saying cards in 9-pocket sleeves in binders can wrinkle or become damaged by light? They are inside binders, so light not hitting them....
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: RawGoo on August 11, 2021, 11:13:50 AM
I am sorry, maybe I should put this on another thread, since my wackys aren't slabbed. I clicked on Harbor Freight 4800, it showed like metal James Bond looking briefcase, foam inserts, but it looked like they were specifically for camera and lenses. Are there specific ones for cards? I have unslabbed cards, so Im just using cardboard baseball card boxes that hold 300 or so, and have those in a plastic lidded bin that came from target. Does anyone here agree with the guy who messaged me saying cards in 9-pocket sleeves in binders can wrinkle or become damaged by light? They are inside binders, so light not hitting them....

Binders can cause Wackys to warp or wrinkle, especially if the ring is round.  My 1-16 was first in a tissue box. then in the Non-Sport Update binders, then in an Ultra Pro D-Ring binder, but I eventually took the special cards out and put them in top loaders (some I submitted for grading). 
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: JailOJohn on August 11, 2021, 11:28:12 AM
Most of my binders are "D" Ring, but a couple are not... What is the issue with "O" Ring binders??? I will replace the "O" ring binders if they are a problem...
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Paul_Maul on August 11, 2021, 11:41:24 AM
Most of my binders are "D" Ring, but a couple are not... What is the issue with "O" Ring binders??? I will replace the "O" ring binders if they are a problem...

Yes, tan back stickers can gradually become warped in standard 9 pocket pages. And the rings of an O-ring binder can press into the cards in the top sheet and leave an impression over time.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: JailOJohn on August 11, 2021, 12:13:22 PM
Man, might have been sitting in three ring binderĎs in the basement for about 20 yearsÖ Although without incident.  Can someone refer me to a brand or product name for toploaders???
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Paul_Maul on August 11, 2021, 01:06:34 PM
Man, might have been sitting in three ring binderĎs in the basement for about 20 yearsÖ Although without incident.  Can someone refer me to a brand or product name for toploaders???

Ultra Pro Regular Toploaders. Unfortunately their price has gone up by a factor of six or seven since Covid for some supply chain related reason. They are expensive now, like $6 or $7 for a pack of 25.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: JailOJohn on August 11, 2021, 03:25:33 PM
Some say to put them in penny sleeves inside of the top loaders. What is the purpose of that?
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Paul_Maul on August 11, 2021, 04:26:11 PM
Some say to put them in penny sleeves inside of the top loaders. What is the purpose of that?

It makes it harder for them to slide around in the top loader and less likely to get damaged (as long as you are careful putting them in the penny sleeve).
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Alexeirex on August 11, 2021, 05:02:08 PM
For the flimsier tan backed wackys, and others, I've also cut up acid free comic book backing boards and slipped those into the pockets with the stickers.
That was a tip from someone on this forum.
A
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: lucidjc on August 11, 2021, 05:38:51 PM
Some say to put them in penny sleeves inside of the top loaders. What is the purpose of that?

Going in and out of a top loader can scratch the card, the soft pennys prevent that, with yes, keeping the card from moving.

Jim
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: BustedFinger on August 12, 2021, 09:10:47 AM
Ultra Pro Regular Toploaders. Unfortunately their price has gone up by a factor of six or seven since Covid for some supply chain related reason. They are expensive now, like $6 or $7 for a pack of 25.
I have about 500 empty top-loaders and probably a thousand penny sleeves sitting in a box in a closet.  I got rid of all my higher grade stuff and now only have a mid to low grade 1-15 run that I keep in a binder.  I would consider selling them but I know shipping cost might be prohibitive.  If anyone is interested, let me know.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on August 13, 2021, 02:59:39 PM
(https://i.postimg.cc/BLZFTpVn/S5-Sicken.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/BLZFTpVn)(https://i.postimg.cc/XG2CQ5Rc/S12-Sootball.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/XG2CQ5Rc)

These two arrived in the snail mail on Monday. I'll try to get better images and put them on my registry this weekend.

I sent PSA an email with recommendations for changes on three different things, but the largest complaint I made was about the population of the puzzle titles. For some odd reason, PSA doesn't delineate between the stickers and the puzzle pieces. This applies to cards that share titles with the puzzles of course; including Gadzooka, Sugarmess, Beanball, etc. Sootball has that same issue. A PSA 9 is the highest grade for that card, but it doesn't get the top pop designation because there are PSA 10 puzzle pieces. But, that isn't even the worst part. People can put puzzle pieces in their sets in place of the card as far as I know. So, someone can purchase a PSA 10 puzzle piece and it will count as their Sootball in the registry.

As expected, I haven't gotten anything back.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Paul_Maul on August 13, 2021, 04:29:48 PM
(https://i.postimg.cc/BLZFTpVn/S5-Sicken.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/BLZFTpVn)(https://i.postimg.cc/XG2CQ5Rc/S12-Sootball.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/XG2CQ5Rc)

These two arrived in the snail mail on Monday. I'll try to get better images and put them on my registry this weekend.

I sent PSA an email with recommendations for changes on three different things, but the largest complaint I made was about the population of the puzzle titles. For some odd reason, PSA doesn't delineate between the stickers and the puzzle pieces. This applies to cards that share titles with the puzzles of course; including Gadzooka, Sugarmess, Beanball, etc. Sootball has that same issue. A PSA is the highest grade for that card, but it doesn't get the top pop designation because there are PSA 10 puzzle pieces. But, that isn't even the worst part. People can put puzzle pieces in their sets in place of the card as far as I know. So, someone can purchase a PSA 10 puzzle piece and it will count as their Sootball in the registry.

As expected, I haven't gotten anything back.

I complained about that exact issue seven years ago. They treat the puzzle pieces just like they treat variations of the sticker (ludlow, white back, tan back, etc.) I explained to them in very clear terms why it makes no sense. They told me very clearly that they had no intention of changing it.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: jleonard1967 on August 14, 2021, 08:22:26 AM
I hate that also, every time I enter a puzzle piece that is higher than then the sticker it replaces it.  I have to wait a day and I can go back and change it back manually.  It does it correctly though on the Master Set designation, not on the basic designation.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: RawGoo on August 14, 2021, 09:01:00 AM
I hate that also, every time I enter a puzzle piece that is higher than then the sticker it replaces it.  I have to wait a day and I can go back and change it back manually.  It does it correctly though on the Master Set designation, not on the basic designation.

Thanks - another reason for me to not collect graded puzzle pieces!!!  Upside down slabbing being the other  :-\
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: jleonard1967 on August 14, 2021, 10:41:34 AM
How about when they label them wrong i.e its a top left and they write top right
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: RawGoo on August 14, 2021, 11:12:11 AM
How about when they label them wrong i.e its a top left and they write top right

Geez, that's awful!!  I never looked that closely, I just see the upside down pics on ebay and decide I prefer my puzzles in pages.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: faustxxx on August 14, 2021, 12:41:26 PM
     I just have to say and add that it is clearly obvious that PSA does NOT have the appropriate people grading our Wackies. I know I have told them that several times over the years when I have had to re-send and get re-slabbed the mistakes they made, they make all kinds of mistakes on my other non-sports items constantly too. I get excited when I get my packages and they are all correct, I would say per 100 graded they are most likely to screw up about 5 to 10.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Adrian on August 17, 2021, 03:59:57 PM
Has anyone had more luck with SGC?
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on August 21, 2021, 10:25:17 AM
(https://i.postimg.cc/k2crj88y/S5-Achoo.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/k2crj88y)(https://i.postimg.cc/rdnBTkf0/S5-PSA9-Plopsikle.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/rdnBTkf0)

These two just arrived. The Achoo is a new addition to my set, and the Plopsikle is an upgrade. I was fine with my 8, but was afraid it could be a Wonderbread. So, I replaced it with a nice, untoned PSA 9 **!

I would be happy if I could get good images, however. For some reason, I cannot get a head-on image of the Achoo. And, both of them look better in-person anyway. It is what it is. I've been trying to get better images of all my PSA stuff, and I think they are better in general than they used to be - but still not perfect.

But, hey, five away on my 5th series! Two of them should be easier, and the other three are crapshoots.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Paul_Maul on August 21, 2021, 12:52:04 PM
When the card is as wide as your Achoo itís very difficult to get a good image without the rails casting shadows. Really the way to go is a good flatbed scanner, but Iíve never been sufficiently motivated to take the plunge.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on August 21, 2021, 01:49:43 PM
When the card is as wide as your Achoo itís very difficult to get a good image without the rails casting shadows. Really the way to go is a good flatbed scanner, but Iíve never been sufficiently motivated to take the plunge.

Yes, I have also thought about this. A small amount of research can definitely find the recommended flatbed scanner, however they cost a lot to justify the purchase. I could spend $250 to get good images of my cards, or I could spend $250 to get good cards. The latter is definitely more of an attractive option.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Paul_Maul on August 21, 2021, 02:09:23 PM
Yes, I have also thought about this. A small amount of research can definitely find the recommended flatbed scanner, however they cost a lot to justify the purchase. I could spend $250 to get good images of my cards, or I could spend $250 to get good cards. The latter is definitely more of an attractive option.

I hear ya. The iPhone camera in particular is so good, it really is annoying that getting good pictures of PSA graded cards is so difficult.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: lucidjc on August 21, 2021, 02:39:33 PM
Yes, I have also thought about this. A small amount of research can definitely find the recommended flatbed scanner, however they cost a lot to justify the purchase. I could spend $250 to get good images of my cards, or I could spend $250 to get good cards. The latter is definitely more of an attractive option.


Who knows what may follow...but someday you might have to liquidate your collection. Those Hi-res pictures could be the only thing left of your collection, god forbid lets not throw some kind of disaster in there. You're young yet, you'll have plenty of time to make up that $250. Choose wisely my friend.

Jim
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: RawGoo on August 21, 2021, 03:00:11 PM
Yes, I have also thought about this. A small amount of research can definitely find the recommended flatbed scanner, however they cost a lot to justify the purchase. I could spend $250 to get good images of my cards, or I could spend $250 to get good cards. The latter is definitely more of an attractive option.

I have wondered why PSA doesn't sell a scanner with a bed made specifically for slabbed cards.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on August 21, 2021, 03:18:08 PM
I hear ya. The iPhone camera in particular is so good, it really is annoying that getting good pictures of PSA graded cards is so difficult.

Yes, I have an iPhone, and it does take good images. But, there are too many things that I find difficult in getting the images of my graded cards.


Who knows what may follow...but someday you might have to liquidate your collection. Those Hi-res pictures could be the only thing left of your collection, god forbid lets not throw some kind of disaster in there. You're young yet, you'll have plenty of time to make up that $250. Choose wisely my friend.

Jim

You have a point. Either way, I want high res images of my collection for the registry. I like high grade cards, and low res images don't fit the bill. I can afford the scanner, but I generally neglect to buy one. But, maybe one of these days I'll bite the bullet and get one. My fear is that it doesn't make good enough quality images and I will regret purchasing it.

I have wondered why PSA doesn't sell a scanner with a bed made specifically for slabbed cards.

It is a totally different market, and a niche one at that. Almost no collectors (at least in Wackys) put images of their cards in the registry. So, I am not sure that the product would sell well. In theory, however, I love the idea.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Paul_Maul on August 21, 2021, 04:21:36 PM
Any image I post here wonít do the Epsom v600 scanner justice, because postimage degrades the quality. So visit this link on the PSA forumÖ.


https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1062350/v600-test/p1?new=1
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on August 21, 2021, 04:29:26 PM
Any image I post here wonít do the Epsom v600 scanner justice, because postimage degrades the quality. So visit this link on the PSA forumÖ.


https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1062350/v600-test/p1?new=1

That's the exact scanner that I was looking at online. PSA's registry doesn't use Postimage. So, that should not be an issue there, correct?

If you don't mind, could you scan one of your Wackys? I am not entirely sure what baseball cards should look like. Albeit, the flip does show all of the thin blue lines so I bet it is somewhat lifelike.

You would think getting nice images for these would not be so difficult. Jebote...  :-\

Here's the nicest image that I think I've gotten with my iPhone... but if Postimage ruins the quality, then it might not seem as nice.

(https://i.postimg.cc/JtTwDh22/S5-PSA-9-Chumps.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/JtTwDh22)

This image also isn't straight to the card. It's slightly tilted. Gah.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Paul_Maul on August 21, 2021, 04:46:35 PM
I donít have the v600 or any other good scanner, I just stole a pic from someone who does. But unfortunately the registry does reduce file sizes as well, so it is not possible to get a really good scan result in there except in the digital albums which allow larger file size.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Paul_Maul on August 21, 2021, 04:51:50 PM
As you know I have put a lot of effort into getting good iPhone pics of wackys. It is very difficult, you need to use natural light on a cloudy day and just the right angle. Here is a link to the best results I have gotten.

https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1062354/wacky-test#latest
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on August 21, 2021, 05:49:23 PM
Iíve never noticed a huge difference in image quality from the registry to my phone per se, but that may be a result of poor image quality to begin with.

Are you next to a window or such? My best results usually come on sunny days next to a window. If it is overcast, I find that the image is too dark. Fill me in.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Paul_Maul on August 21, 2021, 05:54:20 PM
Iíve never noticed a huge difference in image quality from the registry to my phone per se, but that may be a result of poor image quality to begin with.

Are you next to a window or such? My best results usually come on sunny days next to a window. If it is overcast, I find that the image is too dark. Fill me in.

If it is sunny you get glare and reflections off the case. It needs to kind of partly sunny with the sun behind clouds. And yes, right next to two open windows, no artificial light.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: jleonard1967 on August 21, 2021, 08:26:44 PM
Yes, I have an iPhone, and it does take good images. But, there are too many things that I find difficult in getting the images of my graded cards.

You have a point. Either way, I want high res images of my collection for the registry. I like high grade cards, and low res images don't fit the bill. I can afford the scanner, but I generally neglect to buy one. But, maybe one of these days I'll bite the bullet and get one. My fear is that it doesn't make good enough quality images and I will regret purchasing it.

It is a totally different market, and a niche one at that. Almost no collectors (at least in Wackys) put images of their cards in the registry. So, I am not sure that the product would sell well. In theory, however, I love the idea.
I make it a point to have a picture of each card in my registry.  I notice a lot of the wacky collectors do also.  What I don't like is if you are going to participate in the registry, I would like to see your cards.  I hate not being able to see a collection
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: RawGoo on August 21, 2021, 09:47:24 PM
I make it a point to have a picture of each card in my registry.  I notice a lot of the wacky collectors do also.  What I don't like is if you are going to participate in the registry, I would like to see your cards.  I hate not being able to see a collection

I hope that someday I will be able to upload good quality pictures of all my cards, but with the equipment I have now it takes me a lot of time to get just mediocre images. 
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: JasonLiebig on August 21, 2021, 10:15:25 PM
I have wondered why PSA doesn't sell a scanner with a bed made specifically for slabbed cards.

As someone who scans A LOT. I want to chime in here. PSA won't make a scanner for this because most folks don't scan things. 

Scanner technology, by and large, stopped innovating about 15 years ago.  Generally (but not exclusively) scanner tech is about where it was while all other tech has gotten faster, better, and just overall cooler. 

Blame it on digital photography.  In the past, scanners primary use were transferring old media into the digital age. But now, it all starts out digitally. 

Still, there are the occasional improvement here and there.  But I knew when I started seeing more "scanner/printers" than dedicated scanners, I was in trouble.  Because I want scanner technology to innovate, not to get bundled with cheap inkjets. 

So ends my rant. 
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Paul_Maul on August 22, 2021, 03:50:12 AM
As someone who scans A LOT. I want to chime in here. PSA won't make a scanner for this because most folks don't scan things. 

Scanner technology, by and large, stopped innovating about 15 years ago.  Generally (but not exclusively) scanner tech is about where it was while all other tech has gotten faster, better, and just overall cooler. 

Blame it on digital photography.  In the past, scanners primary use were transferring old media into the digital age. But now, it all starts out digitally. 

Still, there are the occasional improvement here and there.  But I knew when I started seeing more "scanner/printers" than dedicated scanners, I was in trouble.  Because I want scanner technology to innovate, not to get bundled with cheap inkjets. 

So ends my rant.

Each time I have gotten a new ďall purpose printerĒ - usually forced to because the one I had is no longer compatible with something new - the scanner has been worse than the previous one.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on August 22, 2021, 07:36:39 AM
Does PSA still penalize for roller marks, or at least as tough as they used to? The closer I look at a lot of my cards, even some newer grades, a lot of them have rollers that don't seem to be penalized for.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Paul_Maul on August 22, 2021, 08:21:32 AM
Does PSA still penalize for roller marks, or at least as tough as they used to? The closer I look at a lot of my cards, even some newer grades, a lot of them have rollers that don't seem to be penalized for.

I think that can be chalked up to inconsistency, and possibly inexperienced new graders if they are very recent grades.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on August 28, 2021, 01:53:33 PM
Welp, I just decided to buy the V600 scanner. It should arrive early this week, and I'll likely get good results from it to show you all.

No more Wacky purchases for me for a while! Probably!
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Paul_Maul on August 28, 2021, 01:56:15 PM
Welp, I just decided to buy the V600 scanner. It should arrive early this week, and I'll likely get good results from it to show you all.

No more Wacky purchases for me for a while! Probably!

Cool! I bet you donít regret it.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: JasonLiebig on August 28, 2021, 04:38:44 PM
Welp, I just decided to buy the V600 scanner. It should arrive early this week, and I'll likely get good results from it to show you all.

No more Wacky purchases for me for a while! Probably!

Look forward to your review, but I think you've got yourself a great new scanner incoming. 
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Swiski on August 28, 2021, 09:04:43 PM
I'm still using an old Canon scanner I bought over 10 years ago. Works great! I think the software I'm using for it is what makes my scans so great. I'm using Vue Scan. Lots of really nice fine-tuning pre-scan settings!
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on August 31, 2021, 02:43:39 PM
Howdy. Just scanned by first card with the V600, looking to see what y'all think.

https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1062820/wacky-v600-test/p1?new=1

I wish I could get a dark background, but I am not sure how to go about it. I also need a good way of rotating the image if I put the card in at an angle slightly.

Looks pretty good to me, though!



ALSO: I did not use the max DPI settings on the scans. If you think I should, please give a comment. Currently, I am using 1200 DPI.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Alexeirex on August 31, 2021, 05:46:57 PM
Howdy. Just scanned by first card with the V600, looking to see what y'all think.

https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1062820/wacky-v600-test/p1?new=1

I wish I could get a dark background, but I am not sure how to go about it. I also need a good way of rotating the image if I put the card in at an angle slightly.

Looks pretty good to me, though!



ALSO: I did not use the max DPI settings on the scans. If you think I should, please give a comment. Currently, I am using 1200 DPI.

The scans are pretty sharp - Alex
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on September 01, 2021, 07:29:29 AM
Thank you. Now that I understand how to use it, the scans are quite nice.

I did take a 4800 DPI scan of my PSA 9 Ghoul Humor but I can't upload the image anywhere because the file size is 30 and some odd MB. It's too large.

Regardless, I think the images at 1200 look pretty good. I think I could go slightly higher for PSA's registry, but I'm fine with where it's at now.

I guess I'll try putting a scan on here and see how it looks:

(https://i.postimg.cc/T1XjJXQF/S15-23-Ultra-Sheep-PSA-9-V600-1-F.jpg) (https://i.postimg.cc/T1XjJXQF/S15-23-Ultra-Sheep-PSA-9-V600-1-F.jpg)(https://i.postimg.cc/tTmQs25s/S16-5-Ghoul-Humor-PSA-9-V600-1-F-1.jpg) (https://i.postimg.cc/tTmQs25s/S16-5-Ghoul-Humor-PSA-9-V600-1-F-1.jpg/)
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: mikecho on September 01, 2021, 08:28:05 AM
Thank you. Now that I understand how to use it, the scans are quite nice.

I did take a 4800 DPI scan of my PSA 9 Ghoul Humor but I can't upload the image anywhere because the file size is 30 and some odd MB. It's too large.

Regardless, I think the images at 1200 look pretty good. I think I could go slightly higher for PSA's registry, but I'm fine with where it's at now.

I guess I'll try putting a scan on here and see how it looks:

(https://i.postimg.cc/T1XjJXQF/S15-23-Ultra-Sheep-PSA-9-V600-1-F.jpg) (https://i.postimg.cc/T1XjJXQF/S15-23-Ultra-Sheep-PSA-9-V600-1-F.jpg)(https://i.postimg.cc/tTmQs25s/S16-5-Ghoul-Humor-PSA-9-V600-1-F-1.jpg) (https://i.postimg.cc/tTmQs25s/S16-5-Ghoul-Humor-PSA-9-V600-1-F-1.jpg/)
It looks pretty good to me.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on September 01, 2021, 12:36:50 PM
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1062820/wacky-v600-test/p1?new=1

For anyone wondering, I am continuing to add some images on this link. I'm not putting all of them there, but some.

Just did a scan of Slum Maid with a dark background. Looks much nicer. The process was quite intuitive; I printed a piece of paper with just black ink on it. And, I put it on the top of the scanner.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Paul_Maul on September 01, 2021, 01:56:45 PM
I think you will get dark background by leaving lid open in very dark room.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Paul_Maul on September 01, 2021, 02:28:54 PM
If you get a chance post some scans on the PSA forum, postimage degrades the quality.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on September 01, 2021, 02:34:12 PM
I tried leaving the lid open but the image seemed to be less accurate when I did so. My indicator is usually the blue lines on the new flip, and I couldn't see the blue lines.

https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1062820/wacky-v600-test/p1?new=1

There's some scans. I'm continuing to add select ones as I go.

By zooming in on the scans, I'm finding defects with these cards that I couldn't see in-person.

Also, is it worth scanning the backs? I plan on trying to fill the digital albums, and without the backs it seems incomplete. However, I hate how the back images make the normal thumbnails smaller on the normal set page.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Paul_Maul on September 01, 2021, 02:47:14 PM
Good photos do the same thing, I see flaws I never noticed with the naked eye.

My only fear with posting back scans is that someone tries to claim that they own the card, though Iím sure you can always thwart that eventually. Come to think of it, older flips donít have the cert number on the back so that would be moot.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Paul_Maul on September 01, 2021, 02:47:58 PM
Dude, the scans on PSA look stellar! I will see what I can find out about dark backgrounds.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Paul_Maul on September 01, 2021, 03:21:33 PM
One of the CU members produced a scanning guide. Not sure if it would be helpful but here it isÖ


https://drive.google.com/file/d/1EumHbtWfBrWebafPHU4a18OgFVdzjffp/view?usp=sharing.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on September 01, 2021, 03:56:05 PM
Wow! Lots of info on that document. Iíll look it over next time I start scanning.

Iíve been using home mode instead of professionalÖ shows how much I know.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: bandaches on September 01, 2021, 09:10:56 PM
Howdy. Just scanned by first card with the V600, looking to see what y'all think.

https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1062820/wacky-v600-test/p1?new=1

I wish I could get a dark background, but I am not sure how to go about it. I also need a good way of rotating the image if I put the card in at an angle slightly.

Looks pretty good to me, though!



ALSO: I did not use the max DPI settings on the scans. If you think I should, please give a comment. Currently, I am using 1200 DPI.

How the heck did that get PSA7 with those corners?  Is the scan showing the corners accurately?
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on September 02, 2021, 04:47:55 AM
Yes, the corners are shown accurately on all of them I believe.

If you're referring to the Slum Maid, that card would grade a 9 in lieu of the corners. I suspect they deducted two points for it, but there's no way to be sure. I wish they gave reports as to why cards got a certain grade.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: jleonard1967 on September 02, 2021, 07:12:28 AM
How the heck did that get PSA7 with those corners?  Is the scan showing the corners accurately?
Those corners are not bent they look like paper loss. 
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: BustedFinger on September 02, 2021, 09:56:51 AM
I wish I could get a dark background, but I am not sure how to go about it.

I collect stamps and scan them.  When scanning stamps, it is critical to have a black background to be able to see the perforations.  So I simply use a piece of black poster board that is cut to fit the scanner bed.  Of course with stamps, they lay flat on the scanner bed so I can just lay my black background over them before closing the lid.  With PSA Slabs, you would probably need to figure out a way to attach the black poster board to the lid.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on September 05, 2021, 05:17:24 AM
I think the ones that I've gotten so far with my homemade, redneck-ingenuity dark background haven't been bad.

As Dave says, the image quality isn't as great as it could be when posting here. But, here's a couple examples.

(https://i.postimg.cc/ZK549jrz/S5-6-Swiss-Mess-PSA-9-V600-1-F.jpg) (https://i.postimg.cc/ZK549jrz/S5-6-Swiss-Mess-PSA-9-V600-1-F.jpg/) (https://i.postimg.cc/6pDXmXFB/S5-13-Achoo-PSA-9-V600-1-F.jpg) (https://i.postimg.cc/6pDXmXFB/S5-13-Achoo-PSA-9-V600-1-F.jpg/)
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Swiski on September 05, 2021, 05:33:22 AM
1200 DPI is a little extreme. How big are your image files?
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on September 05, 2021, 06:27:24 AM
1200 DPI is a little extreme. How big are your image files?

They are generally around 3-5 MB.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: ToadallyDude on September 05, 2021, 07:44:49 PM
I collect stamps and scan them.  When scanning stamps, it is critical to have a black background to be able to see the perforations.  So I simply use a piece of black poster board that is cut to fit the scanner bed.  Of course with stamps, they lay flat on the scanner bed so I can just lay my black background over them before closing the lid.  With PSA Slabs, you would probably need to figure out a way to attach the black poster board to the lid.

I've never collected stamps, but I know someone with the most insane collection I've ever seen... hundreds of leather-bound books filling the shelves of a whole room, floor to ceiling.  All uniform, and all filled.  That much ephemera would make me nervous.  Just having Wackys is bad enough when fire season starts up out here. 
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: bandaches on September 05, 2021, 08:19:59 PM
Those corners are not bent they look like paper loss.
Even worse, how did that get a 7? 
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: RawGoo on September 06, 2021, 02:12:44 AM

I wish I could get a dark background, but I am not sure how to go about it. I also need a good way of rotating the image if I put the card in at an angle slightly.


I bought black foam craft sheets that are the thickness of a PSA slab, and made cutouts of regular card and Wacky Ad slabs in two separate sheets.  I put the card in the cutout, place that on the scanner bed, and then lay an uncut foam sheet over it.  Think I need to make a straighter cutout for the regular size cards.  Here is an example of the results, which looks to me to be an improvement over what I used to get.

(https://i.postimg.cc/mhmJgzdJ/Demented-91-original.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/mhmJgzdJ)

(https://i.postimg.cc/fVC5bxL9/100-2689.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/fVC5bxL9)

(https://i.postimg.cc/R3bR74wC/100-2690.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/R3bR74wC)

(https://i.postimg.cc/sB2mGvQ0/100-2691.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/sB2mGvQ0)

(https://i.postimg.cc/fttv5pvc/100-2692.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/fttv5pvc)

The sheets are 6mm thick and 9"x12", which matches the size of my scanner bed.

Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on September 09, 2021, 05:39:45 PM
A Ratz PSA 8 showed up on eBay, and I was fully preparing to purge almost my entire raw collection in order to afford it - but someone already bought it evidently. It was taken off eBay.

Last time I tried that in an auction, the seller told me it was unfair.

Fun!
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: RawGoo on September 10, 2021, 12:13:51 AM
A Ratz PSA 8 showed up on eBay, and I was fully preparing to purge almost my entire raw collection in order to afford it - but someone already bought it evidently. It was taken off eBay.

Last time I tried that in an auction, the seller told me it was unfair.

Fun!

That was a nice card.  It was supposed to be a 10 day auction, and then it was sold!  I was looking forward to making a bid myself, and I agree, it stinks when an auction just gets ended like that.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Paul_Maul on September 10, 2021, 04:10:51 AM
That was a nice card.  I wonder what it went for?  I was looking forward to making a bid myself, and I agree, it stinks when an auction just gets ended like that.

Who was the seller?
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: RawGoo on September 10, 2021, 04:28:54 AM
Who was the seller?

From the listing, it was someone who collected these in 1967 and took care of them, not a dealer.  Here's the link eBay auction: #185041533908

It actually indicates that someone offered the 10 day auction starting price and got it for that!!  I was prepared to bid a lot higher  :sad:
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Paul_Maul on September 10, 2021, 08:51:09 AM
Does that mean it sold for $3900? Should be worth at least $8-10K, donít you think?
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: RawGoo on September 10, 2021, 09:58:19 AM
Does that mean it sold for $3900? Should be worth at least $8-10K, donít you think?

I was prepared to bid that high, yes.  The auction didn't say "or best offer" so I didn't know that was an option.  Very disappointing.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: jleonard1967 on September 10, 2021, 11:05:28 AM
we have lots of detectives here.  if you look at the 1 bid it does give the ebay id that bought it.  I compared it to the ones I know and It didn't match.  maybe someone else can find out
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on September 10, 2021, 12:51:52 PM
I also expected it to go for $8-9k, and was ready to bid up in that area.

I asked the seller out of curiosity, and he said he got multiple offers in the five figures area. He couldnít resist one of them.

Iíve never understood that. The seller likely could have made more if he left it up considering ďmultipleĒ people were offering that high (which I donít think itís worth to begin with).
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: RawGoo on September 10, 2021, 01:06:16 PM
I also expected it to go for $8-9k, and was ready to bid up in that area.

I asked the seller out of curiosity, and he said he got multiple offers in the five figures area. He couldnít resist one of them.

Iíve never understood that. The seller likely could have made more if he left it up considering ďmultipleĒ people were offering that high (which I donít think itís worth to begin with).

I asked as well, because I thought it was a 10 day auction, and that there were no offers being taken.  He said that he had so many offers that he added that option (apparently after I put it on "watch" and went to bed).  I agree, it might have gone for more had he left it up for bidding. 
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on September 10, 2021, 01:49:45 PM
I asked as well, because I thought it was a 10 day auction, and that there were no offers being taken.  He said that he had so many offers that he added that option (apparently after I put it on "watch" and went to bed).  I agree, it might have gone for more had he left it up for bidding.

Yes, the alleged ďmake-an-offerĒ option was also done after I went to bed. That seems to be a recurring theme with my time on eBay. Everything ends while Iím sleeping, or anything like this.

Perhaps weíll see a PSA 7 appear here sometime? I looked at the top sets that were public and I donít think any of them that are active needed 8ís, but I donít know about Topcat. I assume Eric has the 9.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: bandaches on September 10, 2021, 02:47:40 PM
Yes, the alleged ďmake-an-offerĒ option was also done after I went to bed. That seems to be a recurring theme with my time on eBay. Everything ends while Iím sleeping, or anything like this.

Perhaps weíll see a PSA 7 appear here sometime? I looked at the top sets that were public and I donít think any of them that are active needed 8ís, but I donít know about Topcat. I assume Eric has the 9.
Why does the auction show as sold at $3200+ if he sold it privately for near 5 figures?  Shouldn't the auction show as unsold ended early?  Just something seems odd about this whole thing and I could swear we have seen that id sell wackys before long ago.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: RawGoo on September 10, 2021, 04:14:03 PM
Why does the auction show as sold at $3200+ if he sold it privately for near 5 figures?  Shouldn't the auction show as unsold ended early?  Just something seems odd about this whole thing and I could swear we have seen that id sell wackys before long ago.

I wonder if this price will end up in PSA's value lookup.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on September 11, 2021, 07:15:56 AM
Why does the auction show as sold at $3200+ if he sold it privately for near 5 figures?  Shouldn't the auction show as unsold ended early?  Just something seems odd about this whole thing and I could swear we have seen that id sell wackys before long ago.

Who are you suggesting that this is?
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: bandaches on September 11, 2021, 07:57:49 AM
Who are you suggesting that this is?
Like Ragu just stated will this suddenly now become a lynchpen for PSA 8 ratz and does someone want that value to be low for some reason?  The clearly lesser conditioned cracked is priced higher by same seller.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on September 14, 2021, 12:46:59 PM
Like Ragu just stated will this suddenly now become a lynchpen for PSA 8 ratz and does someone want that value to be low for some reason?  The clearly lesser conditioned cracked is priced higher by same seller.

I would say no, and yes that is odd (respectively).

But, you still didnít answer my question.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: bandaches on September 14, 2021, 03:46:59 PM
I would say no, and yes that is odd (respectively).

But, you still didnít answer my question.
I don't have an answer to your question, I asked does someone want PSA8 ratz to have a low public value as that is the only rationalization to a seller claiming to have near 5 figure offers and then accepting an ebay contract for $3900.  What is your speculation around this.  You think the seller is just an idiot?
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on September 14, 2021, 05:20:53 PM
I don't have an answer to your question, I asked does someone want PSA8 ratz to have a low public value as that is the only rationalization to a seller claiming to have near 5 figure offers and then accepting an ebay contract for $3900.  What is your speculation around this.  You think the seller is just an idiot?

You said that the buyer had an ID that matched a seller. Thatís what I was asking about.

I would guess the seller is an idiot no matter what, for stopping the auction. I donít know why anyone would want to lower prices. Even if someone is attempting to manipulate the market, I donít see why they wouldnít heighten the price if anything.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: jleonard1967 on September 14, 2021, 08:51:29 PM
you want a low market when you are buying and want a high market when selling.  If someone wants a lower market because they have a line on more of them, then I could see wanting the price to be low.  (it is though easier just to move your buying time table up).
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: bandaches on September 15, 2021, 03:21:42 PM
You said that the buyer had an ID that matched a seller. Thatís what I was asking about.

I would guess the seller is an idiot no matter what, for stopping the auction. I donít know why anyone would want to lower prices. Even if someone is attempting to manipulate the market, I donít see why they wouldnít heighten the price if anything.
I never said anything about the buyer id.   I said the seller ID looks familiar
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on September 15, 2021, 04:31:35 PM
I never said anything about the buyer id.   I said the seller ID looks familiar

I misunderstood. I donít think you wrote which person had a recognizable ID, but you said one used to sell Wackys. My apologies.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: bandaches on September 15, 2021, 07:17:38 PM
I misunderstood. I donít think you wrote which person had a recognizable ID, but you said one used to sell Wackys. My apologies.
You are correct I did a poor job of specifying which I was referring to.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: RawGoo on September 28, 2021, 02:34:04 AM
I just finished adding the last images to my Die Cut registry.  Next up - Wacky Ads!
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on September 28, 2021, 03:33:34 AM
I just finished adding the last images to my Die Cut registry.  Next up - Wacky Ads!

Very nice. You've got a very nice die-cut set!

I've also been slowly working on my new scans. I've still got Series 2, 11, 12, 13, 15, and 16 to go but none of them are highly populated so it shouldn't take very long.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on October 02, 2021, 04:53:12 AM
Does anyone know Chef-Girl-ar-dee on PSA? I thought it was weird how he just kicked off his sets in the last year or so, and now he has all the top ones. I assume he just never got on the registry, or were his sets previously private/unpublished?
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: JailOJohn on October 02, 2021, 06:09:25 AM
Yikes! I had no idea a single sticker could go for that much. I guess it IS the rarest card in the best condition....
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: RawGoo on October 02, 2021, 07:01:07 AM
Yikes! I had no idea a single sticker could go for that much. I guess it IS the rarest card in the best condition....

What sale are you referring to?
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: jleonard1967 on October 02, 2021, 07:38:31 AM
Does anyone know Chef-Girl-ar-dee on PSA? I thought it was weird how he just kicked off his sets in the last year or so, and now he has all the top ones. I assume he just never got on the registry, or were his sets previously private/unpublished?
He has been on for a while, mostly in the higher number sets. He actively looks for sets.  He has some beautiful cards in his sets.  One that I would love to see is his 1/1 kentucky fried fingers.  I am happy for him on his collection, that what the registry is about.  Just wish he'd post pictures.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: jleonard1967 on October 02, 2021, 07:40:13 AM
I just finished adding the last images to my Die Cut registry.  Next up - Wacky Ads!
you and me both,  finding good condition wacky ads is really hard.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: RawGoo on October 02, 2021, 09:54:55 AM
you and me both,  finding good condition wacky ads is really hard.

You have a fine collection of Ads!  I wish you'd go and get yourself a Good and Empty 7 already so I can get your 6  :] :]
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: jleonard1967 on October 03, 2021, 05:12:08 AM
You have a fine collection of Ads!  I wish you'd go and get yourself a Good and Empty 7 already so I can get your 6  :] :]
trust me I have been actively looking, I just can't find upgrades
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on October 03, 2021, 05:41:31 AM
trust me I have been actively looking, I just can't find upgrades

You're in good company. I've tried to find upgrades for my Series 5 PSA 7's for this entire year, or even longer for some.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: RawGoo on October 03, 2021, 06:22:27 AM
You're in good company. I've tried to find upgrades for my Series 5 PSA 7's for this entire year, or even longer for some.

Start on Series 4, 6, 7 or 8 and I can start you off really well!!
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on October 03, 2021, 06:28:57 AM
Start on Series 4, 6, 7 or 8 and I can start you off really well!!

Lately, I've just been buying various titles from various series. I have thought about trying to go for specific series, but in high grade, I only see myself getting frustrated with some of the titles.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: jleonard1967 on October 03, 2021, 01:31:15 PM
You're in good company. I've tried to find upgrades for my Series 5 PSA 7's for this entire year, or even longer for some.
you found a nice series 8 PSA 10, if I would of seen that I would have purchased it.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: JailOJohn on October 03, 2021, 02:30:02 PM
There is a PSA 7 Ratz on ebay right now, starting bid $7,500Ö
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on October 03, 2021, 03:01:50 PM
you found a nice series 8 PSA 10, if I would of seen that I would have purchased it.

Well, yes, but that's besides the point.

Here: I'll trade it to you for your National Spittoon PSA 9.  :]

There is a PSA 7 Ratz on ebay right now, starting bid $7,500Ö

Yes, this person already posted a Ratz 8 and two different Cracked Animals...

The price is on the high end of what I would expect this to sell for.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: JailOJohn on October 03, 2021, 08:00:25 PM
It caught my eye because the seller is in IowaÖ.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on October 10, 2021, 11:05:04 AM
If you've ever wondered what a 1st Series Lavirus PSA 10 looks like, you can see one in Eric's registry now.

I assume it must be the new official image thing. I am not quite sure how that works, but I think there is one for my Moron Salt.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Paul_Maul on October 10, 2021, 12:23:02 PM
If you've ever wondered what a 1st Series Lavirus PSA 10 looks like, you can see one in Eric's registry now.

I assume it must be the new official image thing. I am not quite sure how that works, but I think there is one for my Moron Salt.

How can you see it when his set is not visible, unless you happen to know the cert number?

And why is there an official image of it when it was not recently graded, was it?
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on October 10, 2021, 03:27:20 PM
How can you see it when his set is not visible, unless you happen to know the cert number?

And why is there an official image of it when it was not recently graded, was it?

His 1-16 master set is visible.

I canít answer as to why the official image is there or not.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on October 16, 2021, 05:17:51 AM
Not too big, but here's a title that I got recently:

(https://i.postimg.cc/MMcpmFKV/S2-24-BLUNDER-PSA-8-V600-1-F.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/MMcpmFKV)

I should have another 2nd Series title coming in next week...
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: JailOJohn on October 16, 2021, 10:25:36 AM
Thats a good looking Wacky.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Paul_Maul on October 16, 2021, 04:43:01 PM
Not too big, but here's a title that I got recently:

(https://i.postimg.cc/MMcpmFKV/S2-24-BLUNDER-PSA-8-V600-1-F.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/MMcpmFKV)

I should have another 2nd Series title coming in next week...

Nice! These are the series that thrill me, lol.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on October 17, 2021, 07:31:51 AM
It is nice. I appreciate my titles that are square, and not diamond cut. It's a shame this one doesn't have better corners.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on October 23, 2021, 10:47:14 AM
Post may not be necessary, but here's another recent acquisition:

(https://i.postimg.cc/dD1hX8G3/S2-16-NERTZ-PSA-9-V600-1-F.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/dD1hX8G3)

Toned unfortunately, but still not the ugliest I have seen. Good enough for me!
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: jleonard1967 on October 23, 2021, 09:29:39 PM
I don't mind the toning of wackys.  They were not made to last the test of time and the even browning show its age.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on October 24, 2021, 01:46:56 AM
It definitely bothers me, but I usually still buy them within reason if some toning is present. If it looks like I couldíve just dug it up, then I wonít buy it.

Generally, cutting errors are more of a reason to avoid but I definitely donít like toning to say the least.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: RawGoo on October 24, 2021, 03:39:04 PM
Here are two recent upgrades for my Series 13:

(https://i.postimg.cc/S2hVMr27/Bum-s-Life-8.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/S2hVMr27)    (https://i.postimg.cc/MMm5bQ1k/Drainola-9.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/MMm5bQ1k)
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Swiski on October 25, 2021, 06:19:06 AM
Here are two recent upgrades for my Series 13:

(https://i.postimg.cc/S2hVMr27/Bum-s-Life-8.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/S2hVMr27)    (https://i.postimg.cc/MMm5bQ1k/Drainola-9.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/MMm5bQ1k)

Those are nice! Is it true it takes a year to get something graded from PSA after you ship it to them?
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: RawGoo on October 25, 2021, 08:31:24 AM
Those are nice! Is it true it takes a year to get something graded from PSA after you ship it to them?

Thanks!  Right now I hear that it does seem to be taking about a year to get something back from PSA. 
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: jleonard1967 on October 25, 2021, 11:13:13 AM
Drainola is a very hard card to get centered.  There are no 10's.  PSA 9 is currently the highest grade, great job on upgrading the collection.

Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: drono on October 25, 2021, 02:30:21 PM
It definitely bothers me, but I usually still buy them within reason if some toning is present.

That's probably what turns me off the most about PSA grading.  A sticker can get a 9 when it shows toning from aging, while one that is fresh out of the pack and glossy would be graded lower because it's off center 25-75.  To me, fresh out of the pack is fresh out of the pack and toning and soft corners show aging and handling.  I know PSA has to establish some sort of comparison to differentiate grades, but off center just doesn't bother me - especially with Wacky Packages because I think centering is subjective on a lot of them.

Drainola is a very hard card to get centered.

I know we have uncut sheets to disprove it, but just suppose that Drainola was lined up off center on the sheet, so one that is 50-50 centered would really be the one that's "off center." 


Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on October 25, 2021, 03:12:59 PM
That's probably what turns me off the most about PSA grading.  A sticker can get a 9 when it shows toning from aging, while one that is fresh out of the pack and glossy would be graded lower because it's off center 25-75.  To me, fresh out of the pack is fresh out of the pack and toning and soft corners show aging and handling.  I know PSA has to establish some sort of comparison to differentiate grades, but off center just doesn't bother me - especially with Wacky Packages because I think centering is subjective on a lot of them.

I know we have uncut sheets to disprove it, but just suppose that Drainola was lined up off center on the sheet, so one that is 50-50 centered would really be the one that's "off center."

Yes, I still think that PSA should penalize for toning. But, they havenít, donít, and wonít. Thereís many other things they donít do that they should as wellÖ

Ironically, I also brought up a similar issue pertaining to your Drainola scenario regarding 8-Lives years ago. The reality is that centering doesnít really change regardless of the position on the sheet. This also doesnít change the fact that many frustrating anomalies exist in the original series, but life goes on.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: bandaches on October 25, 2021, 05:57:42 PM
That's probably what turns me off the most about PSA grading.  A sticker can get a 9 when it shows toning from aging, while one that is fresh out of the pack and glossy would be graded lower because it's off center 25-75.  To me, fresh out of the pack is fresh out of the pack and toning and soft corners show aging and handling.  I know PSA has to establish some sort of comparison to differentiate grades, but off center just doesn't bother me - especially with Wacky Packages because I think centering is subjective on a lot of them.

I know we have uncut sheets to disprove it, but just suppose that Drainola was lined up off center on the sheet, so one that is 50-50 centered would really be the one that's "off center."
Good points, a circulated coin would never grade as high as any "proof coin"(ie right out of the pack) but PSA has created this racket and is rolling in the money because of it.  Condition grading should be measuring what happened to the item since its printing, aging, toning, fingerprints, smudges, creasing etc....
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: jleonard1967 on October 25, 2021, 09:50:30 PM
That's probably what turns me off the most about PSA grading.  A sticker can get a 9 when it shows toning from aging, while one that is fresh out of the pack and glossy would be graded lower because it's off center 25-75.  To me, fresh out of the pack is fresh out of the pack and toning and soft corners show aging and handling.  I know PSA has to establish some sort of comparison to differentiate grades, but off center just doesn't bother me - especially with Wacky Packages because I think centering is subjective on a lot of them.

I know we have uncut sheets to disprove it, but just suppose that Drainola was lined up off center on the sheet, so one that is 50-50 centered would really be the one that's "off center."
interesting scenario, It just shows up off center most of the times in the wild. Sort of Like Clammy.  You need to get one that has a portion of another sticker just to get a perfectly centered one.  shrug of the shoulder.  I will stand behind the toning as an effect of the cheap paper that was used for wackys.  IT IS going to tone, not gonna stop it, Most will tone.  However according to standards set by the industry, that is not a reason to knock down the grade, centering, edges , wear, roller marks, stains,ext all all reasons for marking down the grade.  I did not make the standards, I just play within the parameters. 
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: jleonard1967 on October 25, 2021, 10:04:25 PM
Good points, a circulated coin would never grade as high as any "proof coin"(ie right out of the pack) but PSA has created this racket and is rolling in the money because of it.  Condition grading should be measuring what happened to the item since its printing, aging, toning, fingerprints, smudges, creasing etc....
I so wish this was the case, I would open up all product and send them in then.  Seriously I like what you are saying, however if you had (2) Ratz Crackers both pack fresh and both equal grade.  IF one is (OC) and one is centered.  Are you going to pay the same exact money for the (OC) one?  Even using the coin analogy on graded coins they have a company that will attach a sticker to the casing if it exceeds the average condition for the grade on the outside of the holder.  (CAC) is the name of said company. Right now I am so disappointed in PSA as I feel that all of us who enjoy registry collecting are getting hosed for extra money.  So much so I have to look at if it will be viable to continue to send to PSA to get cards graded. 20 dollars is still to steep to send in base wackys, unless you are really good at grading and can get at lease a none with your submission.  I can not say what direction PSA grading will go, but I do hope that they realize it was not for money do I submit all my cards, but to have my registry set and to collect wackys by getting one better.  I must have over 5 full 1-16 sets.  It gets boring collecting another set of wackys.  But getting a grade higher on my sets as I collect 1-16 That is where the thrill of the chase is.  TO find that PSA 10 and to add it to your collection that is what made this fun and kept wackys going for me.  Everyone does it they upgrade their set.  I just do it within the parameters of a set collecting guideline.  I know it is not for everyone, I just know it is for me.  (it also helps when I have ungraded cards to tell what the grade is.  Since I sell a lot at shows I want people to know the truly are getting an ex/nrmt card and not calling it Mint.)
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on October 26, 2021, 01:32:29 AM
Ironically, I believe that I read that they are removing qualifiers. The grade will simply drop if the issue is found instead of the ugly (OC) or (MC) on the case. I think thatís great!

It also seems that they are toughening on their grading, which is also good - but the inconsistency isnít.

Iím in the boat with you, Joe. My enthusiasm for Wackys is minimal anymore, but picking up higher grade stuff is enjoyable. Especially when you can find a known toughie in high grade, itíll light you up like Christmas. Or maybe thatís just me. And, again, the biggest highlight is the registry as well as the leaderboards that show everyoneís sets.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: drono on October 26, 2021, 07:52:55 AM
I so wish this was the case, I would open up all product and send them in then.  Seriously I like what you are saying, however if you had (2) Ratz Crackers both pack fresh and both equal grade.  IF one is (OC) and one is centered.  Are you going to pay the same exact money for the (OC) one? 

If there was no grading and no one was focused on centering, then yes.  I think it has become too much of a focus.  When I bought my Ratz many years ago, I had a choice of one that was almost perfect except the centering was around 90/10 and one that had a minor popped perf.  I chose the 90/10 since the printer cut it that way vs. the owner playing with it.

I'm curious, does PSA base their grading on a "flaw percentage" like TransUnion on credit reports (Payment History 40%, Credit Usage 23%, Account Mix 11%, Credit Age 21%, Inquiries 5%)?  If so, I'd be curious how much centering is a factor.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Paul_Maul on October 26, 2021, 08:26:48 AM
Centering is a gateway. The grade cannot be 10 unless the centering is at least 55/45. The grade cannot be 9 unless it is at least 60/40, etc. Obviously centering within those guidelines is not the only factor, but an otherwise perfect card with 90/10 centering will get a PSA 4.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: faustxxx on October 26, 2021, 08:57:13 AM
Thanks!  Right now I hear that it does seem to be taking about a year to get something back from PSA. 
   I have been waiting for 16 months so far for my lot of 114 cards/stickers some are re slabs but I still have yet to hear they are grading them as of now. I was able to get them in just before the price increase.

     Matt.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: bandaches on October 26, 2021, 09:02:08 AM
I so wish this was the case, I would open up all product and send them in then.  Seriously I like what you are saying, however if you had (2) Ratz Crackers both pack fresh and both equal grade.  IF one is (OC) and one is centered.  Are you going to pay the same exact money for the (OC) one?  Even using the coin analogy on graded coins they have a company that will attach a sticker to the casing if it exceeds the average condition for the grade on the outside of the holder.  (CAC) is the name of said company. Right now I am so disappointed in PSA as I feel that all of us who enjoy registry collecting are getting hosed for extra money.  So much so I have to look at if it will be viable to continue to send to PSA to get cards graded. 20 dollars is still to steep to send in base wackys, unless you are really good at grading and can get at lease a none with your submission.  I can not say what direction PSA grading will go, but I do hope that they realize it was not for money do I submit all my cards, but to have my registry set and to collect wackys by getting one better.  I must have over 5 full 1-16 sets.  It gets boring collecting another set of wackys.  But getting a grade higher on my sets as I collect 1-16 That is where the thrill of the chase is.  TO find that PSA 10 and to add it to your collection that is what made this fun and kept wackys going for me.  Everyone does it they upgrade their set.  I just do it within the parameters of a set collecting guideline.  I know it is not for everyone, I just know it is for me.  (it also helps when I have ungraded cards to tell what the grade is.  Since I sell a lot at shows I want people to know the truly are getting an ex/nrmt card and not calling it Mint.)
We are discussing this on that vintage facebook page you invited me, we are discussing if grading should be two grades, manufacturing defect and post manufacturing defect.  Manufacturing defects with coins INCREASE the value since clearly there are far fewer that get out the door.  If Topps made an effort to grade miscuts and fewer made it out the door, would they be worth MORE like a coin?  I am with you, I certainly would choose centered over off centered with everything else being equal but PSA set up this racket and now they can just change the racket since they really had no standards and make people collect all over again, their goal is to make money, it is not to set standards.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: jleonard1967 on October 26, 2021, 09:03:23 AM
   I have been waiting for 16 months so far for my lot of 114 cards/stickers some are re slabs but I still have yet to hear they are grading them as of now. I was able to get them in just before the price increase.

     Matt.
I sent a batch of 132 in last august.  they have been in the grading stage now for 2 months I am going on 15 months.  I dont expect them until January.  I hope I am wrong
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: bandaches on October 26, 2021, 09:05:19 AM
Centering is a gateway. The grade cannot be 10 unless the centering is at least 55/45. The grade cannot be 9 unless it is at least 60/40, etc. Obviously centering within those guidelines is not the only factor, but an otherwise perfect card with 90/10 centering will get a PSA 4.
Think about how crazy that is!  A fresh out of the pack(proof or uncirculated), no finger prints, perfect card with 90/10 centering would be a PSA4 and a card floating around in circulation with soft corners and perfect centering gets a higher grade.  Sorry that is nutty to me.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: drono on October 26, 2021, 09:09:36 AM
I sent a batch of 132 in last august.  they have been in the grading stage now for 2 months I am going on 15 months.  I dont expect them until January.  I hope I am wrong

So does that mean if there's an 18-month lag from submitted to graded, that the price guide report on PSA graded cards is always 18 months old due to changes in grade population?  That sort of defeats the purpose of a monthly magazine.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: jleonard1967 on October 26, 2021, 09:09:47 AM
We are discussing this on that vintage facebook page you invited me, we are discussing if grading should be two grades, manufacturing defect and post manufacturing defect.  Manufacturing defects with coins INCREASE the value since clearly there are far fewer that get out the door.  If Topps made an effort to grade miscuts and fewer made it out the door, would they be worth MORE like a coin?  I am with you, I certainly would choose centered over off centered with everything else being equal but PSA set up this racket and now they can just change the racket since they really had no standards and make people collect all over again, their goal is to make money, it is not to set standards.
You are correct there is way more quality control with the US mint then there was with Topps printing.  Back in the day, Topps counted on the candy (gum) sales and used cards to increase this.  The US mint had to make a product that is the same each time.  You are 100 percent correct defects in coins are rare and worth a whole bunch.  In cards though getting a perfect card, even from the pack was a hard feat.  So when we grade coins only condition after the mint is considered.  They dont say lady liberty is off center on a coin, so you cannot use the same standards.  Each one stands on their own.  (quick fact PCGS the number one coin grader and PSA the number one card grader are all under the collectors universe umbrella)
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: jleonard1967 on October 26, 2021, 09:11:21 AM
So does that mean if there's an 18-month lag from submitted to graded, that the price guide report on PSA graded cards is always 18 months old due to changes in grade population?  That sort of defeats the purpose of a monthly magazine.
That is a good question that I don't know. the answer to, however in my opinion there is enough out there graded that the small amount left in the grading banks should not affect the millions that have been graded
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: jleonard1967 on October 26, 2021, 09:13:29 AM
Ironically, I believe that I read that they are removing qualifiers. The grade will simply drop if the issue is found instead of the ugly (OC) or (MC) on the case. I think thatís great!

It also seems that they are toughening on their grading, which is also good - but the inconsistency isnít.

Iím in the boat with you, Joe. My enthusiasm for Wackys is minimal anymore, but picking up higher grade stuff is enjoyable. Especially when you can find a known toughie in high grade, itíll light you up like Christmas. Or maybe thatís just me. And, again, the biggest highlight is the registry as well as the leaderboards that show everyoneís sets.
Trust me I get it, It is a different way of collecting where you can go with like minded collectors.  ( I just wish some of them would make them public and take some pictures)
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: RawGoo on October 26, 2021, 09:20:15 AM
Trust me I get it, It is a different way of collecting where you can go with like minded collectors.  ( I just wish some of them would make them public and take some pictures)

I finished uploading scans of my Die Cuts, Ads, and Series 1 so far.  Then I had no spare time for scanning.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on October 26, 2021, 02:32:59 PM
I sent a batch of 132 in last august.  they have been in the grading stage now for 2 months I am going on 15 months.  I dont expect them until January.  I hope I am wrong

What kinda stuff did ya send in??
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: JailOJohn on October 26, 2021, 05:06:46 PM
Making customers wait more than a year is a TERRIBLE business model. Then again, i guess they have a monopolyÖ..
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Paul_Maul on October 27, 2021, 08:07:22 AM
Think about how crazy that is!  A fresh out of the pack(proof or uncirculated), no finger prints, perfect card with 90/10 centering would be a PSA4 and a card floating around in circulation with soft corners and perfect centering gets a higher grade.  Sorry that is nutty to me.

I happen to agree with you. I would much rather have a pack fresh un-toned card with perfect corners and 80/20 centering than a PSA 5 with lots of wear. But believe it or not there are a lot of collectors who value centering over everything else, and believe (I strongly disagree) that it is the primary determinant of eye appeal. I literally see guys all the time proudly showing off their perfectly centered Mantle cards that look like they have been through the mill, and I wouldnít take those cards for free.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: jleonard1967 on October 27, 2021, 10:38:58 AM
What kinda stuff did ya send in??
about 100 wackys Mostly 9th series with a mix of other series and Star Trek Stickers.  I received a bunch that had no roller marks.  That is a really hard thing to do on star trek or star wars stickers
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: jleonard1967 on October 27, 2021, 10:39:35 AM
I finished uploading scans of my Die Cuts, Ads, and Series 1 so far.  Then I had no spare time for scanning.
You leave yours open and have plenty of pictures  :great:
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: jleonard1967 on October 27, 2021, 10:42:39 AM
Making customers wait more than a year is a TERRIBLE business model. Then again, i guess they have a monopolyÖ..
It was a perfect storm, The pandemic hit, more people home and started card collecting and finally the popularity of Pokťmon.  It caused them to get overwhelmed, as long as when it is over it, doesn't hold the current model of business I will be happy.  You have to realize PSA increased its staff 4 fold and they are going to have to keep those people busy, I do think that the prices will come down then.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: JailOJohn on October 27, 2021, 03:23:54 PM
Prices up and poor serviceÖ.classic monopolistic behaviorÖ.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on October 27, 2021, 04:05:33 PM
I donít think itís really possible to have a monopoly at this pointÖ
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on October 30, 2021, 06:03:26 AM
Does anyone know how long the current $150 submission/review takes?
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Paul_Maul on October 30, 2021, 12:24:59 PM
Does anyone know how long the current $150 submission/review takes?

If I understand this page correctly it looks like a little over five weeksÖ.

https://www.psacard.com/pricing
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on October 30, 2021, 07:44:55 PM
If I understand this page correctly it looks like a little over five weeksÖ.

https://www.psacard.com/pricing

I applaud them in making it as confusing as possible.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Paul_Maul on October 30, 2021, 07:59:35 PM
I think the date they give (9/21) represents the oldest order that is not completed. So anything that was logged before that is done.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on November 14, 2021, 12:06:17 PM
Which scan looks better?

(https://i.postimg.cc/hh4qPj3X/S1-13-MINUTE-LICE-PSA-9-V600-1-F.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/hh4qPj3X)(https://i.postimg.cc/SYK0ZTz6/S1-13-MINUTE-LICE-PSA-9-V600-1-F-N.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/SYK0ZTz6)
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: RawGoo on November 14, 2021, 12:11:54 PM
Which scan looks better?

(https://i.postimg.cc/hh4qPj3X/S1-13-MINUTE-LICE-PSA-9-V600-1-F.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/hh4qPj3X)(https://i.postimg.cc/SYK0ZTz6/S1-13-MINUTE-LICE-PSA-9-V600-1-F-N.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/SYK0ZTz6)

I prefer the one on the left - the color seems brighter and the and lettering sharper.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: BustedFinger on November 15, 2021, 09:24:55 AM
Easier to compare them side-by-side:


(https://i.postimg.cc/V0PyjdbR/Minute-Lice-1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/V0PyjdbR)

Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Paul_Maul on November 15, 2021, 11:08:44 AM
The right one looks better to me, the left seems darker.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: drono on January 11, 2022, 08:46:09 AM
Beckett is hiring card graders and card verifiers!

https://www.beckett.com/careers
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on January 16, 2022, 04:24:50 AM
I find PSA really funny. I sent my Sootball 9 in for review, and PSA received it at the beginning of November, 2020. At that point, it should have taken five weeks for me to get the card back. Well, it was about ten weeks until I decided to send an email asking if they even have the card. At this point, their site said that 100% of November orders were complete. A couple days later, I got my answer. Apparently my account is *still* blocked, and as a result I cannot send cards in for submission. So, they held my Sootball 9 hostage - and didn't provide me any information about it until I contacted them. Pretty terrible if you ask me.

Why was I blocked? About five or six years ago, I went online and called them - and I quote - incompetent retards. I guess they never recovered from that sick burn. They've got a chronic case of easily offended disorder. (Not that my declaration was any better)

That also by no means justifies them not sending my card back when they received it.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Paul_Maul on January 16, 2022, 06:25:14 AM
I find PSA really funny. I sent my Sootball 9 in for review, and PSA received it at the beginning of November, 2020. At that point, it should have taken five weeks for me to get the card back. Well, it was about ten weeks until I decided to send an email asking if they even have the card. At this point, their site said that 100% of November orders were complete. A couple days later, I got my answer. Apparently my account is *still* blocked, and as a result I cannot send cards in for submission. So, they held my Sootball 9 hostage - and didn't provide me any information about it until I contacted them. Pretty terrible if you ask me.

Why was I blocked? About five or six years ago, I went online and called them - and I quote - incompetent retards. I guess they never recovered from that sick burn. They've got a chronic case of easily offended disorder. (Not that my declaration was any better)

That also by no means justifies them not sending my card back when they received it.

In what forum did you make that statement?
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: drono on January 16, 2022, 06:52:18 AM
Apparently my account is *still* blocked, and as a result I cannot send cards in for submission. So, they held my Sootball 9 hostage - and didn't provide me any information about it until I contacted them. Pretty terrible if you ask me.

That's just another of the growing reasons to not send stuff to PSA to be graded. 

Since I collect sports cards too, I'm a member of a few Facebook groups for vintage sports.  I see waaay too many people asking if they should grade their "NM" cards with dinged corners, paper loss in the edges, off center, etc.  Are there really that many people out there that can't tell a NM card when they see it?  For them, I guess sending their money to PSA keeps them honest.

I just finally bought the last 1971 Topps Football card I needed, the Terry Bradshaw RC for $160.  When COVID hit, I decided to finish my childhood sets, and this card had a book value of $100-200 in the NM range.  It's now up to $250-600, so I found one in the EX+ for a little less.  If you want to see what PSA and grading has done to the hobby, just check eBay for 1971 Terry Bradshaw and sort by price + shipping highest first.  You'll see a lot of ungraded cards that are nowhere near NM listed for over $1,000 with $4,200 being the highest.  Would anyone seriously pay that for a card because you "think" it will get a 9 or 10 ?

IMHO grading has its place - to guarantee that something really valuable is genuine and not counterfeit, and it should place a "standard" of flawlessness.  However, this has gone too far and has taken most of my fun out of what should be a hobby.  I know that some of you like the register and compete to get the highest ranking.  If that's your deal, then I'm fine with that, but when it starts to remove my fun by driving up prices, then it starts to affect me.  That's just my 2-1/2 cents.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on January 16, 2022, 09:33:43 AM
In what forum did you make that statement?

I said it on, of all places, Instagram. I no longer have Instagram because I donít care to have it, so the post isnít available.

As far as people attempting to send in poor grade cards, thatís up to them. It does not mean that I am going to. The pricing of cards also doesnít have to do with PSAís grading, it has to do with price guides and outrageous sellers. My fun is adding a new PSA 8-9 to my sets. Whose fun is more important? Iím sure thereís some give or take here. Iím paying even more than you, believe me.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: JailOJohn on January 16, 2022, 12:08:55 PM
I agree with DrOnoÖas far as what the grading has done to the card hobby, and to some extent, the comic hobbyÖ.its great if you are a high end collector or a flipperÖThe rest of us just have to settle for mid grade or ungraded cards. Its like the people driving high-end cars while the rest of us drive Hondas and ToyotasÖyou have to try and find things to collect that you can afford and be content withÖ.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: drono on January 16, 2022, 01:02:45 PM
As far as people attempting to send in poor grade cards, thatís up to them. It does not mean that I am going to.

I think you missed my point.  Everyone now thinks they've got that NM 9 or 10, so they either want to get it graded or just sell it for big bucks.  Unfortunately there's a sucker born every minute who will buy it, and the price guides look at sales to determine value.

The pricing of cards also doesnít have to do with PSAís grading, it has to do with price guides and outrageous sellers.

I think it all starts with grading, which leads to graded card price guides.  Without it, we'd be back to where we were as kids and make a simple 1 for 1 trade or 2 for 1 if you really needed it.  Maybe  you don't remember those days of thumbing through someone's "doubles" and finding a handful you needed and then just swapping for the same amount they needed.  No looking at condition or who it was, just simple trading.  Grading creates ranking and demand with low supply, which drives up prices.  It also creates false dreams of having that card that's perceivably worth 10-100x a true NM card. 

My fun is adding a new PSA 8-9 to my sets. Whose fun is more important? Iím sure thereís some give or take here. Iím paying even more than you, believe me.

That's fine for you if that's what you like.  You're at a point in your life where you can spend your money on frivolity, but I have to be responsible and think about retirement in a few years and making it through with the lifestyle I want.  Grading has turned what used to be a hobby into a big business.  The grading company wins because they make big $$$, the few who have a rare gem mint 10 of a card in high demand win because they sell it for big $$$.  Unfortunately big money being dumped into the hobby as buyers makes it difficult for the casual collector because the rising tide raises all boats.

I agree with DrOnoÖas far as what the grading has done to the card hobby, and to some extent, the comic hobbyÖ.its great if you are a high end collector or a flipperÖThe rest of us just have to settle for mid grade or ungraded cards. Its like the people driving high-end cars while the rest of us drive Hondas and ToyotasÖyou have to try and find things to collect that you can afford and be content withÖ.

I only own a few graded Wacky Ads.  They're all 4s and 5s, and I only bought them because I couldn't find those few in large perforations as raw cards.  I think I paid $5 or $6 apiece for them and would bust them out of the slab if I could guarantee I wouldn't damage them.  I just don't care that much about it being in flawless condition, so I buy EX, but I still have to pay way more because the price guides only show NM, and those prices go up as higher end cards get sold for more.  So yes, I do blame grading for making me pay more.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on January 16, 2022, 03:22:05 PM
I agree with DrOnoÖas far as what the grading has done to the card hobby, and to some extent, the comic hobbyÖ.its great if you are a high end collector or a flipperÖThe rest of us just have to settle for mid grade or ungraded cards. Its like the people driving high-end cars while the rest of us drive Hondas and ToyotasÖyou have to try and find things to collect that you can afford and be content withÖ.

Iím not rich by any means. I donít even spend all my money on expensive cards, I buy very sparingly. The chase is better than the catch, saving more to buy that mint card is much more rewarding than settling for less. But yes, collect what you enjoy.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Paul_Maul on January 16, 2022, 03:27:30 PM
Iím not rich by any means. I donít even spend all my money on expensive cards, I buy very sparingly. The chase is better than the catch, saving more to buy that mint card is much more rewarding than settling for less. But yes, collect what you enjoy.

Some people canít seem to understand that liking high grade cards has nothing directly to do with money. It just happens they are in low supply and higher demand. I donít have a lot of money either. I see guys complete a low grade 1972 baseball set in under a month. I have been working on my graded set since 2014 and it is 55% complete. I just like nice cards and am willing to be patient.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: jleonard1967 on January 16, 2022, 06:21:47 PM
I can attest to the quality of your cards that you are very choosy.  Both you and Pat would rather have a brighter psa 8 than a psa 9 not as bright as the 8.  I though am not as choosy in the presentation as I am in the mechanics of the grade.  Everyone collects in their own way.  That is what makes collecting fun
 
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: drono on January 17, 2022, 05:47:19 AM
Some people canít seem to understand that liking high grade cards has nothing directly to do with money. It just happens they are in low supply and higher demand.

No, but it takes a lot more money to pursue one.

I see guys complete a low grade 1972 baseball set in under a month. I have been working on my graded set since 2014 and it is 55% complete. I just like nice cards and am willing to be patient.

I started working on a 72 baseball set, but because of the six different series, it's difficult to pursue by buying in lots.  Most of those are heavy in the 1st and 2nd series, and I only need 15 of the 263, none of which are commons.  Anyone who put a set like that together in a month either bought an almost complete one and finished it off or spent a ton of money (over $2K I would guess) to assemble it.  I've been working on mine for almost two years, and I'm still 324 cards and $1.3K away from completing it, but I'm a bargain hunter with a firm budget.  At least with a graded set, you're mostly looking for individual players while I'm still trying to buy lots.  Good luck with that one; I hope you finish it!
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Paul_Maul on January 17, 2022, 06:37:18 AM
I see offers like this all the time on the Facebook group Iím in. Even includes some stars. High numbers do seem to command a premium. Interestingly, for cards in high PSA grades the high numbers donít seem that much tougher on the whole.

(https://i.postimg.cc/HWVBGdnQ/56-FEA5-F1-8-C4-E-4792-9477-34410-B47-E776.jpg)

Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: drono on January 17, 2022, 09:00:11 AM
The way I would evaluate that lot is that I need 200 cards out of 649 with numbers less than 650 with a book value of $521.60.  My best scenario would be to get all 200.  A more reasonable expectation would be 200/649 * 521.60 = $160, so I'd be paying about $220 more than I could expect for my return.  I'm not a trader or a seller, so any duplicate cards I got from the lot would have no real value to me.

Interestingly, for cards in high PSA grades the high numbers donít seem that much tougher on the whole.

My guess would be that the high numbers came out so late in the season that very few collectors had them, so most of the higher grade cards survived in top condition.  By then we were collecting football and basketball cards.  While the lower number series were bought by kids like us who put rubber bands around them, carried them in our pants pockets, clothes pinned them to the spokes of our bicycles, etc. so the higher grades probably survived in about the same number for all six series.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Paul_Maul on January 17, 2022, 09:28:40 AM
The way I would evaluate that lot is that I need 200 cards out of 649 with numbers less than 650 with a book value of $521.60.  My best scenario would be to get all 200.  A more reasonable expectation would be 200/649 * 521.60 = $160, so I'd be paying about $220 more than I could expect for my return.  I'm not a trader or a seller, so any duplicate cards I got from the lot would have no real value to me.

My guess would be that the high numbers came out so late in the season that very few collectors had them, so most of the higher grade cards survived in top condition.  By then we were collecting football and basketball cards.  While the lower number series were bought by kids like us who put rubber bands around them, carried them in our pants pockets, clothes pinned them to the spokes of our bicycles, etc. so the higher grades probably survived in about the same number for all six series.

I think thatís exactly right. Much like the wacky 16th series, they are rarer overall, but a higher percentage survived in nice shape.

I hear you about buying lots, but there is only so far into a set build that you can expect to be able to do that without getting a ton of duplicates. Eventually youíll have to pursue the singles you need, whatever the cost. Or just be OK with not completing it, I guess.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: bandaches on January 17, 2022, 12:01:07 PM
I said it on, of all places, Instagram. I no longer have Instagram because I donít care to have it, so the post isnít available.

As far as people attempting to send in poor grade cards, thatís up to them. It does not mean that I am going to. The pricing of cards also doesnít have to do with PSAís grading, it has to do with price guides and outrageous sellers. My fun is adding a new PSA 8-9 to my sets. Whose fun is more important? Iím sure thereís some give or take here. Iím paying even more than you, believe me.
sellers don't drive prices, buyers do.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: bandaches on January 17, 2022, 12:05:31 PM
Some people canít seem to understand that liking high grade cards has nothing directly to do with money. It just happens they are in low supply and higher demand. I donít have a lot of money either. I see guys complete a low grade 1972 baseball set in under a month. I have been working on my graded set since 2014 and it is 55% complete. I just like nice cards and am willing to be patient.
I respect that you like high grade cards, I still don't understand with your great eye why you want to pay someone else to decide for you whether you like a card given monetary value has nothing to do with it.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Paul_Maul on January 17, 2022, 12:15:56 PM
I respect that you like high grade cards, I still don't understand with your great eye why you want to pay someone else to decide for you whether you like a card given monetary value has nothing to do with it.

Simple: beautiful high grade raw cards are not easily available. The money PSA grading attracts brings them to market.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: bandaches on January 17, 2022, 12:39:11 PM
Simple: beautiful high grade raw cards are not easily available. The money PSA grading attracts brings them to market.
So you only buy PSA card you never submit your own cards?
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Paul_Maul on January 17, 2022, 12:50:01 PM
So you only buy PSA card you never submit your own cards?

Yes, I have found some nice cards over the years, but more wackys than sports cards. I have submitted my share of sports cards also, but probably only about 10% of the graded baseball cards I have are self submitted.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on January 17, 2022, 01:12:12 PM
sellers don't drive prices, buyers do.

If you looked at eBay auctions for high grade cards vs. BINís I expect youíd see much different results.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: JailOJohn on January 17, 2022, 01:50:17 PM
Slightly off topic, but a page of original Spiderman art from the first issue featuring his black costume, sold this week for $3.3 millionÖ.other recent sales of Action #1 and Amazing Fantasy #1 have hit $3 millionÖDuring these times if ridiculous inflationÖsomeone has lots of money yo blowÖ
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: JailOJohn on January 17, 2022, 01:57:18 PM
Does the seller pay regular IRS taxes on that???
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on January 17, 2022, 01:57:22 PM
Slightly off topic, but a page of original Spiderman art from the first issue featuring his black costume, sold this week for $3.3 millionÖ.other recent sales of Action #1 and Amazing Fantasy #1 have hit $3 millionÖDuring these times if ridiculous inflationÖsomeone has lots of money yo blowÖ

People would probably rather buy expensive items in hobbies than see their real trading investments tank
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Paul_Maul on January 17, 2022, 02:01:45 PM
I couldnít believe that 3.3 million Spidey art sale. I understand the connection to Venom, but this page is from 1984, who wouldnít rather have some John Romita Spidey art? The art is by Mike Zeck, a nice artist but hardly a top tier Marvel legend.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: jleonard1967 on January 17, 2022, 08:38:57 PM
in rising inflation people will transfer their money to different things.  Especially in the beginning of rising inflation. 
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: drono on January 18, 2022, 05:21:20 AM
I hear you about buying lots, but there is only so far into a set build that you can expect to be able to do that without getting a ton of duplicates. Eventually youíll have to pursue the singles you need, whatever the cost. Or just be OK with not completing it, I guess.

When I put together my 1973 set, I probably bought lots until I got around 75%, then started pursuing the individual cards.  There are a lot of "complete your set" auctions available for just such a venture where you can pick and choose what to buy.  I'm not sure how long it will take me to complete the 1972 set.  The series make it very tough, and I'm not sure how quickly I'd like to spend the $1.3K book value that's left.  I collect too many other things to concentrate solely on this set.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: bandaches on January 19, 2022, 06:31:03 PM
If you looked at eBay auctions for high grade cards vs. BINís I expect youíd see much different results.
Not following your point,  buyers can ask any price they want but it doesn't matter if the sellers don't buy at those prices
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on January 20, 2022, 01:26:53 AM
Not following your point,  buyers can ask any price they want but it doesn't matter if the sellers don't buy at those prices

Thatís exactly my point???
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: bandaches on January 20, 2022, 08:51:12 AM
Thatís exactly my point???
if you meant to say SOLD ebay auctions vs high BINs, then yes, I see we agree.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on January 22, 2022, 12:25:32 PM
I hope no one lost sleep - the Sootball is back in my possession.  :]

Thereís nothing on the sheet that they provided in the package regarding the lack of a grade, which I find interesting.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: RawGoo on March 26, 2022, 03:58:36 AM
This looks "off" to me.  Thoughts?

(https://i.postimg.cc/mPGByk0m/Beanball-10.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/mPGByk0m)
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: quas on March 26, 2022, 04:14:20 AM
This looks "off" to me.  Thoughts?

(https://i.postimg.cc/mPGByk0m/Beanball-10.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/mPGByk0m)

Not exactly a bright white background.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: RawGoo on March 26, 2022, 04:35:59 AM
Not exactly a bright white background.

PSA doesn't usually care about that.  It looks crooked to me, but maybe I'm imagining it?
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on March 26, 2022, 05:23:32 AM
This looks "off" to me.  Thoughts?

(https://i.postimg.cc/mPGByk0m/Beanball-10.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/mPGByk0m)

I saw that this morning as well. It looks slightly tilted, but I always take images online with a tablespoon of salt. Some of the other 10ís look nicer.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Paul_Maul on March 26, 2022, 05:43:48 AM
It is slightly diamond cut. The bottom edge is parallel to the holder, but the vertical edges are not.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on March 26, 2022, 07:12:24 AM
https://www.psacard.com/cert/63742539

High res scan available there. Looks toned too. Not particularly nice for a 10 but donít color me surprised.

Also, youíre telling me some guy submitted five Wackys and they all got tens??? I doubt it. Wonder how much money got thrown at PSA. Must have been a lot considering the outrageous prices these are listed at.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Paul_Maul on March 26, 2022, 09:48:05 AM
https://www.psacard.com/cert/63742539

High res scan available there. Looks toned too. Not particularly nice for a 10 but donít color me surprised.

Also, youíre telling me some guy submitted five Wackys and they all got tens??? I doubt it. Wonder how much money got thrown at PSA. Must have been a lot considering the outrageous prices these are listed at.

He may have submitted a bunch of cards with minimum grade 10. That way, anything that grades lower is not encapsulated. Unlikely, since the grading fee is still charged, but I think large submitters sometimes do this to make it easier to resubmit something they think will only have value at a certain grade.

Suggesting PSA is taking bribes is a bit over the top. Any whiff of that would ruin their business on the spot, I am sure it is very carefully policed.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on March 26, 2022, 05:52:24 PM
Looks like Roberts took the opportunity to purchase the terrible looking Taster's Choke PSA 10 that has been on eBay for years now. Quite odd since it benefits his set less now than it would have years ago. Now he does not get the #1 uncontested grade bonus. Interesting.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: jleonard1967 on March 26, 2022, 09:08:45 PM
I sure as hell wouldn't spend the money Probstein is asking for those 10's. That is just ridiculous money wasted

Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on March 27, 2022, 03:52:09 AM
I sure as hell wouldn't spend the money Probstein is asking for those 10's. That is just ridiculous money wasted

Me neither. Usually the auctions start at $0.99. Not sure why these are so high.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: bandaches on March 27, 2022, 11:58:23 AM
Looks like Roberts took the opportunity to purchase the terrible looking Taster's Choke PSA 10 that has been on eBay for years now. Quite odd since it benefits his set less now than it would have years ago. Now he does not get the #1 uncontested grade bonus. Interesting.
How on earth did that Tasters Choke get a 10 with that centering?  Did someone convince PSA that is the correct centering for that card?  It is ridiculous that PSA10s are being pitted against each other with clear variations in quality,
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: faustxxx on March 31, 2022, 09:05:55 AM
How on earth did that Tasters Choke get a 10 with that centering?  Did someone convince PSA that is the correct centering for that card?  It is ridiculous that PSA10s are being pitted against each other with clear variations in quality,
    Here's another one that just appeared on eBay. Better centering.   https://www.ebay.com/itm/373992296844?mkevt=1&mkpid=2&emsid=e90001.m2368.l2648&mkcid=8&bu=43209198147&osub=c674abaa961c02c44e428241ee82ce98%257ETE80101_T_AGM&segname=TE80101_T_AGM&crd=20220331080000&ch=osgood&trkId=0A7B127B-E53450F398A-017FBDF50CDA-0000000001013B97&mesgId=3041&plmtId=700002&recoId=373992296844&recoPos=4&sojTags=osub%3Dosub%2Csegname%3Dsegname%2Ccrd%3Dcrd%2Cch%3Dch%2CtrkId%3DtrkId%2CmesgId%3DmesgId%2CplmtId%3DplmtId%2CrecoId%3DrecoId%2CrecoPos%3DrecoPos%2Cchnl%3Dmkcid
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on March 31, 2022, 09:30:14 AM
How on earth did that Tasters Choke get a 10 with that centering?  Did someone convince PSA that is the correct centering for that card?  It is ridiculous that PSA10s are being pitted against each other with clear variations in quality,

It was also slightly diamond cut. Iím not sure why it got a 10. I would have given it a 7 at best. And, yes, PSA is very inconsistent at times.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: bandaches on March 31, 2022, 02:35:37 PM
    Here's another one that just appeared on eBay. Better centering.   https://www.ebay.com/itm/373992296844?mkevt=1&mkpid=2&emsid=e90001.m2368.l2648&mkcid=8&bu=43209198147&osub=c674abaa961c02c44e428241ee82ce98%257ETE80101_T_AGM&segname=TE80101_T_AGM&crd=20220331080000&ch=osgood&trkId=0A7B127B-E53450F398A-017FBDF50CDA-0000000001013B97&mesgId=3041&plmtId=700002&recoId=373992296844&recoPos=4&sojTags=osub%3Dosub%2Csegname%3Dsegname%2Ccrd%3Dcrd%2Cch%3Dch%2CtrkId%3DtrkId%2CmesgId%3DmesgId%2CplmtId%3DplmtId%2CrecoId%3DrecoId%2CrecoPos%3DrecoPos%2Cchnl%3Dmkcid
This one is far better.  I think PSA10 should be perfect, the lower left corner back view is perfect, none of the other corners match that.  I guess PSA 10 is like 290s in bowling....I didn't realize that.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on April 01, 2022, 02:46:30 PM
PSA 9 Boredom's and PSA 9 Campy sold for close to $3,700 each on Mile High Card Co. Sold for around $1,000 more than what I would have expected.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: lucidjc on April 02, 2022, 04:02:13 PM
How is this possible? Which inept individual did this? I wonder if it can be ascertained from the number who did it. This has to be the worst PSA error I have ever seen.


Jim


https://www.ebay.com/itm/363782317242?hash=item54b31da4ba:g:X8IAAOSw1ZdhfJ05
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on April 02, 2022, 04:21:30 PM
I think the submitter chooses how a card is designated. My guess is that the order changed and PSA didnít take the two extra seconds to confirm that they were grading the correct card with the correct certification.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Plastered Peanut on April 02, 2022, 11:22:10 PM
PSA 9 Boredom's and PSA 9 Campy sold for close to $3,700 each on Mile High Card Co. Sold for around $1,000 more than what I would have expected.

Someone was a mile high when they made that purchase.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Plastered Peanut on April 02, 2022, 11:24:03 PM
How is this possible? Which inept individual did this? I wonder if it can be ascertained from the number who did it. This has to be the worst PSA error I have ever seen.


Jim

Kinda goes to show that a PSA grade is about.....worthless.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Paul_Maul on April 03, 2022, 04:38:45 AM
Kinda goes to show that a PSA grade is about.....worthless.

Well, no, it shows that PSA can make mistakes.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: quas on April 03, 2022, 05:20:12 AM
PSA 9 Boredom's and PSA 9 Campy sold for close to $3,700 each on Mile High Card Co. Sold for around $1,000 more than what I would have expected.

Based on the identical selling prices, seems like the same individual bought both of them.  $7,400 for two cards.   :o
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: RawGoo on April 03, 2022, 05:40:00 AM
Based on the identical selling prices, seems like the same individual bought both of them.  $7,400 for two cards.   :o

Where do you see those?
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: quas on April 03, 2022, 05:53:01 AM
Where do you see those?

http://milehighcardco.com/Category/Non_Sport-28.html

Search on "wacky".

Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: RawGoo on April 03, 2022, 06:38:58 AM
http://milehighcardco.com/Category/Non_Sport-28.html

Search on "wacky".

Thanks!
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Paul_Maul on April 03, 2022, 06:41:03 AM
Thanks!

It was very likely Eric Roberts.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: bigtomi on April 03, 2022, 09:10:50 AM
This has to be the worst PSA error I have ever seen.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/363782317242?hash=item54b31da4ba:g:X8IAAOSw1ZdhfJ05
Maybe Ron Hextall is an alias of his?  lol
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on April 03, 2022, 02:53:13 PM
Is Mile High Card Co affiliated with PSA? I tried registering so that I could participate in those diecut auctions when they started. But, I didn't quite understand part of the registration process - so I emailed them for clarification and it said my email was blocked. Not that I would have won anyway, but it is what it is.

If they also blocked me for calling a different company incompetent retards years ago then that is hilarious.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: RawGoo on April 25, 2022, 10:33:03 AM
Matt has a Cracked PSA 3 on ebay now.  It has been a while since this one reared its head!! 
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on April 25, 2022, 03:50:39 PM
I think he bought that from Greg and had it slabbed. Greg had one listed for around $1200 and the centering looked identical, as well as border creases in similar locations. I couldnít see it selling for more than $750 logically - but it already surpassed that so weíll see.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: vahsurfer on May 03, 2022, 05:06:06 PM
What is the current turn around time from PSA?

Richard
#StayWacky
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: jleonard1967 on May 04, 2022, 07:36:32 AM
I sent in an order of 7 cards They are in pre grading right now.  Mailed out 04/18/2022
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Paul_Maul on May 04, 2022, 08:29:04 AM
What is the current turn around time from PSA?

Richard
#StayWacky

Should be pointed out that there is no affordable PSA grading option right now. The choices are pay $100 per card, or wait in line to try to get the privilege of paying $50 per card.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: bandaches on May 04, 2022, 10:12:59 AM
Should be pointed out that there is no affordable PSA grading option right now. The choices are pay $100 per card, or wait in line to try to get the privilege of paying $50 per card.
It will of course take a lot of time but other graders will become more mainstream and start to command good prices since PSA decided to open the door for this period of time.  OCR and scanned grades is the future and will trump all previous grades removing some of the subjectivity and nonsense going on now with grading. This will allow for faster and more accurate turnarounds.  The market demands this and will get it.  This will evolve like all things in life do especially with a process so flawed like the current PSA process. 
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Paul_Maul on May 04, 2022, 10:21:26 AM
The only wildcard with taking PSAís market share is the registry. Others have tried to compete with that but have not been successful.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: bandaches on May 04, 2022, 10:32:06 AM
The only wildcard with taking PSAís market share is the registry. Others have tried to compete with that but have not been successful.
That is not rocket science so no idea why others can't set up a registry.  What % of the market cares about registry?  I would only get cards graded to sell them and will never register them.  I have a super nice die cut set with all # variations(sans #21 Jolly) and Ratz and Cracked(graded PSA 6 and is by far the worst in the lot) that I want to get graded purely to sell.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: Paul_Maul on May 04, 2022, 10:49:37 AM
The point is not whether someone could create a registry infrastructure. Itís that they have a hard time getting people to care about it.

I donít know what percentage of the market cares about the registry, but I personally believe that the grading of high condition commons is driven almost completely by the registry, and has made PSA a boat load of money over the years. That is what is currently suffering from high grading prices. It just isnít financially viable to pay $50/card to grade 1972 commons. The entire business model of 4 Sharp Corners has been ravaged by these circumstances.

And I realize lots of people only want to grade stuff to sell. But there has to be someone to buy it, and a lot of these buyers are either into the registry, or have typical collector OCD and want all their cards to be graded by the same service.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on May 04, 2022, 02:07:39 PM
That is not rocket science so no idea why others can't set up a registry.  What % of the market cares about registry?  I would only get cards graded to sell them and will never register them.  I have a super nice die cut set with all # variations(sans #21 Jolly) and Ratz and Cracked(graded PSA 6 and is by far the worst in the lot) that I want to get graded purely to sell.

Cracked Animals 6? Consider that a blessing.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: bandaches on May 04, 2022, 05:07:14 PM
Cracked Animals 6? Consider that a blessing.
Why a blessing?
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: NationalSpittoon on May 04, 2022, 05:14:18 PM
Why a blessing?

Itís a tough card? Not only extremely tough to find but centering issues donít make it conducive for high grade either. Along with the plethora of other diecut issues such as border creasing, popped perforations, soft corners, etc.
Title: Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
Post by: jleonard1967 on May 05, 2022, 07:44:28 AM
Why a blessing?
He is right, centering on that card is really hard to get.