Wacky Wikipedia Page

[ScaryLee]

Just read through all this last night. This is all truly sad. I can only hope that someone is man enough to put in both links and let the wiki citation police decide what should stay or go. Tit for tat is not a cool way to go here at all.

[bandaches]

I've seen that another person has rewritten the entire Wacky page so his lying excuses should not be valid even in his own warped mind because it's now not an edit by me. Not a single thing I wrote in the Old School section violated Wiki rules and it was all strictly informative. If he thinks it was only based on promotion then he should also be deleting the Postcard section and all mention of 10again clothing. We all know the truth though. It's pathetic how transparent he is with his motives. I always thought he was smarter than this.

I would like to see everyone here try to add to the Wiki page and update all the sections with some great informative content and be on top of making sure Greg, the Wiki and Wacky history terrorist, doesn't craft the page to his personal prejudices. Since the guy won't carry ANY info on ANS7 and beyond and any of the limited releases like the Postcards and Old School, the Wiki page is a great place to have the specifics of all these series listed. The guy cares not one iota about Wacky Packages history or the hobby only about his own personal greed and "spot". My how times change as this so-called defender of free speech, a guy who supposedly deplores censorship is now all about banning people and deleting information that he doesn't want people to know about.


If Greg is doing what has been stated then he is directly threatening the vitality of Topps and Wackys. He should be stopped. Thanks for  policing  his actions and rectifying any misinformation he puts on there. I would hate to see our hobby harmed by a disgruntled,  profit motivated Wacky fan.

DrDeal

It seems to be greg and others who stand in his corner of desire to bring down the hobby.  They have gotten more clever in rerouting IP addresses to hide identities.  All you have to do is ask, why would an editor need to hide his identity if what he is doing is fair and sound minded?  I took the time to modify my website so it is watered down to very basic topics such as grading guide, price guide, pictures of very cool vintage stuff I have and various links to wacky package or wacky package artist contributions.  I removed all of my items for sale.

IF it is determined that my links need to be changed, so be it.  I added my website and it survived the robot removal but greg(or someone acting on his behalf) again changed my link to point to greg's website but in a sneaky manner by leaving my wording alone and merely secretly changing the link so the only way to catch the change is reviewing the edits or testing the link.  This is exactly the action that Paul Maul had said is uncool.   For me, this is just another round of validation of greg's true colors that I had been describing for years.  I can't wait until he acuses me again of being the one with wild and endless Jihads.....

[ScaryLee]

The page has changed 10 times today already! I imagine with the warlike nature of man there must be thousands or tens of thousands of wiki wars similar to this going on all the time. It's not cool for a whole bunch of reasons but for one thing this must cost wikipedia, which is free for users, a lot of extra bandwidth costs. I don't have a clue how to make changes to wikipedia, I just wish someone would change the page to include both of these pages plus lostwackys.com and then hopefully the tit for tat will end!

[slamjim]

The page has changed 10 times today already! I imagine with the warlike nature of man there must be thousands or tens of thousands of wiki wars similar to this going on all the time. It's not cool for a whole bunch of reasons but for one thing this must cost wikipedia, which is free for users, a lot of extra bandwidth costs. I don't have a clue how to make changes to wikipedia, I just wish someone would change the page to include both of these pages plus lostwackys.com and then hopefully the tit for tat will end!

John, the ONLY person to blame is Greg. His site was included with all the others. He is removing all the other sites OR leaving them but changing all the URL's to redirect to his site only.

[slamjim]

It's ONLY Greg making these changes not any of his (very few) buddies. All the IP addresses are from his house or his place of work. There are a few others who make grammar changes (like Pepto2) but that's it.

Here is Greg's newest add-on to the OLDS section:

Topps' turn to exclusive marketing has generated considerable criticism from collectors. Rather than accept criticism, Topps' spokespeople have taken to deleting negative comments about the company on Wikipedia and using Wikipedia as a spam site for their shopping cart links and corporate vanity.

Let's see how much lying and hypocrisy is going on in this on:

Exclusive marketing. Hmmm. ANS7 and the erasers are sold in stores as will be ANS8 and a bunch of other things coming. This is one of Greg's central complaints from the moment he started up his jihad when he found out he was not going to make a windfall by selling OLDS. He's been harping that Topps was killing all the small internet businesses even though he was told from day 1 that OLDS was limited to the online store and that ANS, FB and other things would be sold normally should they come back. Low and behold that was true yet he still clings to this argument. The only one killing his business is himself by turning off the collectors, killing his forum, making himself look like a loon and lying all the time.

Rather than accept criticism, Topps' spokespeople have taken to deleting negative comments about the company on Wikipedia and using Wikipedia as a spam site for their shopping cart links and corporate vanity. Looks like Grunt didn't get the memo that Wiki is not for criticism of any kind. That's for his dead forum. As for shopping cart links I do believe Mr. Grunt has on on his very site. A site with numerous other Wiki violations.

[bandaches]

John, the ONLY person to blame is Greg. His site was included with all the others. He is removing all the other sites OR leaving them but changing all the URL's to redirect to his site only.

Not true, it appears Pepso has changed links a couple of times along the way.  This is only when greg is not available to do it himself....

[slamjim]

Not true, it appears Pepso has changed links a couple of times along the way.  This is only when greg is not available to do it himself....

I looked at Pepso's changes and they look like grammar changes (ex: he changed sketch cards to Sketch Cards). His changes seem to follow Greg's after Greg has already made the link swaps so I don't see what he could be doing. I do not see any changes he has made concerning links. I looked at his history and he seems to be into all kinds of comic artists (including Jay). I'd say he's strictly grammar police which is fine.

[bandaches]

I looked at Pepso's changes and they look like grammar changes (ex: he changed sketch cards to Sketch Cards). His changes seem to follow Greg's after Greg has already made the link swaps so I don't see what he could be doing. I do not see any changes he has made concerning links. I looked at his history and he seems to be into all kinds of comic artists (including Jay). I'd say he's strictly grammar police which is fine.

I stand corrected, he did change links but has done so in a fair manner.  You have to look at the before and after images of each change and cant just trust the summary which will often just say "contribute" yet there were text and link changes.

[Paul_Maul]

I am certain greg is purely motivated by business and sales $ as he always has been so his desire to delete my link and adding his instead of leaving them both up is consistant with my claim.  

The only problem with this theory is that Greg already has number one and two google status, with the wiki page coming in at number three. Anyone searching for wackys is already going to Greg's site first, why worry about wiki? I suspect his motivation in changing the page had nothing directly to do with traffic or money.

Also, I don't believe he ever originally added his site to the page, rather someone else did. I tried going through all of the modifications, but it would take all day to figure out what really happened long term with the external links. When his link was removed and replaced, I'm sure that did bug him, whether his link is technically in violation of wiki rules or not.

EDIT: I just looked up the early history of the wiki site, and indeed Greg's site was first added as an external link on July 6, 2005 by someone at Brandeis University in Massachusetts.

[slamjim]

The only problem with this theory is that Greg already has number one and two google status, with the wiki page coming in at number three. Anyone searching for wackys is already going to Greg's site first, why worry about wiki? I suspect his motivation in changing the page had nothing directly to do with traffic or money.

Also, I don't believe he ever originally added his site to the page, rather someone else did. I tried going through all of the modifications, but it would take all day to figure out what really happened long term with the external links. When his link was removed and replaced, I'm sure that did bug him, whether his link is technically in violation of wiki rules or not.

EDIT: I just looked up the early history of the wiki site, and indeed Greg's site was first added as an external link on July 6, 2005 by someone at Brandeis University in Massachusetts.

I also looked up and searched the entire edit history. Here you go: Greg's site was removed for the 1st time as a Wiki violation (along with numerous other links) on July 29, 2007. It was put back up by someone other than Greg on Dec 14, 2007. It was joined by Ernie's link on July 17, 2009 and they were together until Greg removed Ernie's link on Sept 13, 2009. So Greg clearly started this "war" with Ernie. Ernie put his site back up on Nov. 25, 2009 and Greg removed it on Nov. 30, 2009. Ernie put it back up on Dec 2, 2009 and then an administrator removed both their sites the next day, Dec, 3, 2009. Ernie then put his site back up the following day Dec 4, 2009. Greg did not. This forum was then added for the first time on March 12, 2010. Ernie's site was removed as spam on Sept 22, 2010 (not by Greg). Ernie added his site back on Nov. 7, 2010. It was removed along with this forum the same day by someone with the name Tbhotch as spam (no idea who that is). Ernie added it back along with this forum on Nov 14, 2010. On Dec. 20, 2010 Greg kept Ernie's link name along with the forum's link name but replaced the URL with his own to direct them to his site. This is where the on again off again started which has already been documented here.

As for Old School, the first Old School paragraph was put up by John (Duzn't) on June 16, 2009 and completely removed by Greg on the same day he began removing Ernie's links, Sept 13, 2009. Some one then put up a new paragraph on July 21, 2010. I fleshed it out with the new info on OLDS2 on Nov 28th, 2010 and Greg removed all of it on Dec. 20 2010 and began the back and forth with this as well. Again all documented here.

The first removals which had Greg's very own name listed along with subsequent IPs (which all lead to Greg's neighborhood and his place of work) show Greg to be the sole person doing the vandalism.

I agree with you that Greg's motivation is not DIRECTLY related with money (but it certainly is indirectly related as far as Old School). He's just being a spiteful ass who is attempting to hijack the Wiki page and the hobby in general. Looking only to have his point of view and forum available. Not exactly a defensible position. You seem to be advocating a partial weak defense for him by mentioning that Greg may have been "bugged" by his site being removed but that was in 2007 and not by Ernie or anyone else doing so for spite. It was by a spam remover. Ernie and others had their links removed as well. The evidence clearly shows only Greg to be the petty child and aggressor here.

[slamjim]

but it would take all day to figure out what really happened long term with the external links.

Nah, only took me a half hour.

[Crakola Crayons]

Good sleuthing, Dave.  We'll have to start calling you Columbo.

[slamjim]

Good sleuthing, Dave.  We'll have to start calling you Columbo.

Only if I get to keep my eye.

[Duznt]

As for Old School, the first Old School paragraph was put up by someone (not me) on June 16, 2009 and completely removed by Greg on the same day he began removing Ernie's links, Sept 13, 2009. John (Duzn't) then put up a new paragraph on July 21, 2010. I fleshed it out with the new info on OLDS2 on Nov 28th, 2010 and Greg removed all of it on Dec. 20 2010 and began the back and forth with this as well. Again all documented here.

Just an FYI... I didn't do the July 21 '10 edit (my Wiki ID is JK2004). All I did was post the original OldS info on June 16 '09, and then fixed the "citation" I received the next day.

[slamjim]

Just an FYI... I didn't do the July 21 '10 edit (my Wiki ID is JK2004). All I did was post the original OldS info on June 16 '09, and then fixed the "citation" I received the next day.

Yeah, I got it backward. Will fix.

[bandaches]

The only problem with this theory is that Greg already has number one and two google status, with the wiki page coming in at number three. Anyone searching for wackys is already going to Greg's site first, why worry about wiki? I suspect his motivation in changing the page had nothing directly to do with traffic or money.

Also, I don't believe he ever originally added his site to the page, rather someone else did. I tried going through all of the modifications, but it would take all day to figure out what really happened long term with the external links. When his link was removed and replaced, I'm sure that did bug him, whether his link is technically in violation of wiki rules or not.

EDIT: I just looked up the early history of the wiki site, and indeed Greg's site was first added as an external link on July 6, 2005 by someone at Brandeis University in Massachusetts.

How about instead of telling me the reasons he didn't delete my link, put forth your idea on why he DID delete it. 

Why has his practice recently been to change the website in the links I add which is in effect using my wording to point to his website.  Even you said that such sneaky behavior is bad. 

[bandaches]

I also looked up and searched the entire edit history. Here you go: Greg's site was removed for the 1st time as a Wiki violation (along with numerous other links) on July 29, 2007. It was put back up by someone other than Greg on Dec 14, 2007. It was joined by Ernie's link on July 17, 2009 and they were together until Greg removed Ernie's link on Sept 13, 2009. So Greg clearly started this "war" with Ernie. Ernie put his site back up on Nov. 25, 2009 and Greg removed it on Nov. 30, 2009. Ernie put it back up on Dec 2, 2009 and then an administrator removed both their sites the next day, Dec, 3, 2009. Ernie then put his site back up the following day Dec 4, 2009. Greg did not. This forum was then added for the first time on March 12, 2010. Ernie's site was removed as spam on Sept 22, 2010 (not by Greg). Ernie added his site back on Nov. 7, 2010. It was removed along with this forum the same day by someone with the name Tbhotch as spam (no idea who that is). Ernie added it back along with this forum on Nov 14, 2010. On Dec. 20, 2010 Greg kept Ernie's link name along with the forum's link name but replaced the URL with his own to direct them to his site. This is where the on again off again started which has already been documented here.

As for Old School, the first Old School paragraph was put up by John (Duzn't) on June 16, 2009 and completely removed by Greg on the same day he began removing Ernie's links, Sept 13, 2009. Some one then put up a new paragraph on July 21, 2010. I fleshed it out with the new info on OLDS2 on Nov 28th, 2010 and Greg removed all of it on Dec. 20 2010 and began the back and forth with this as well. Again all documented here.

The first removals which had Greg's very own name listed along with subsequent IPs (which all lead to Greg's neighborhood and his place of work) show Greg to be the sole person doing the vandalism.

I agree with you that Greg's motivation is not DIRECTLY related with money (but it certainly is indirectly related as far as Old School). He's just being a spiteful ass who is attempting to hijack the Wiki page and the hobby in general. Looking only to have his point of view and forum available. Not exactly a defensible position. You seem to be advocating a partial weak defense for him by mentioning that Greg may have been "bugged" by his site being removed but that was in 2007 and not by Ernie or anyone else doing so for spite. It was by a spam remover. Ernie and others had their links removed as well. The evidence clearly shows only Greg to be the petty child and aggressor here.

Excellent, so my recollections are exactly in line with the raw facts.  It is comical to watch anyone try to defend his childish and selfish actions.  If anything, the people who constantly condone his behaviour are somewhat to blame but luckily that group of minions is down to a puny few as most of realized I have been right about him all these years.

[slamjim]

Just an FYI, I have found out that Pepso2 is actually Bhob Stewart, original Wacky packages gag artist (who worked on OLDS2 as well) and he in no way is doing anything negative to any links. He is an avid Wikipedia guardian and routinely does grammar fixes to the WP entry along with many other comic/ card related entries.

[bandaches]

Just an FYI, I have found out that Pepso2 is actually Bhob Stewart, original Wacky packages gag artist (who worked on OLDS2 as well) and he in no way is doing anything negative to any links. He is an avid Wikipedia guardian and routinely does grammar fixes to the WP entry along with many other comic/ card related entries.

I realized that, I posted that I stood corrected as I had clicked on so many of the edits that I had crossed one of greg's edits with Pepso.  I acknowledged Pepso's edits were all very fair and useful.

[Paul_Maul]

I'm curious...why does wikipedia have such a problem with a link to a page that contains a store as an ancillary component, like Greg's does? The vast majority of the page is fact and scholarship. Is the Metropolitan Museum of Art impure and unworthy because it has a gift shop?

[bandaches]

I'm curious...why does wikipedia have such a problem with a link to a page that contains a store as an ancillary component, like Greg's does? The vast majority of the page is fact and scholarship. Is the Metropolitan Museum of Art impure and unworthy because it has a gift shop?

Why do you feel the answer is known here?  Under the heading, the first thing you find on greg's page is "BUY WACKYS HERE".  greg has clearly spent much of his time making money off the hobby and hence has thrown a fit now that Topps has cut out some of his profit making.  I am not sure how you are measuring vast majority but it is a fact that greg's page is a webstore, plain and simple.

Any reason you have not bothered to offer why greg has chosen to continually delete my link instead of leaving both up?

[Fanatical_and_Sickly]

I'm curious...why does wikipedia have such a problem with a link to a page that contains a store as an ancillary component, like Greg's does? The vast majority of the page is fact and scholarship. Is the Metropolitan Museum of Art impure and unworthy because it has a gift shop?

well, where else can they draw the line? it's all or nothing. and they've chosen "no sales"
if a site sells just one item, but has lots of relevant information, is that ok? then why not 10 items, with a some information? then why not an entire webstore with just one line of information?

[Fanatical_and_Sickly]

Why do you feel the answer is known here?  Under the heading, the first thing you find on greg's page is "BUY WACKYS HERE".  greg has clearly spent much of his time making money off the hobby and hence has thrown a fit now that Topps has cut out some of his profit making.  I am not sure how you are measuring vast majority but it is a fact that greg's page is a webstore, plain and simple.

it looks like Greg is doing some revamping of the index.html page, to remove all the links about sales so that it is only links to pure info.
that I fine with, even though wiki says otherwise, as his site has the hardcore information that enthusiasts would want to get to. And it's like the GPK and Star Wars Trading card sites, both of which have numerous links to information only type fan websites.

sneakily tweaking the url's is uncool, and I see he's done it again but in a different area. there was a link to the topps ANS6 page, and now it points to his ANS6 page. whatever. I don't see the relevance to even having a footnote in that part of the page, so we'll see if it has any legs.

[bandaches]

it looks like Greg is doing some revamping of the index.html page, to remove all the links about sales so that it is only links to pure info.
that I fine with, even though wiki says otherwise, as his site has the hardcore information that enthusiasts would want to get to. And it's like the GPK and Star Wars Trading card sites, both of which have numerous links to information only type fan websites.

sneakily tweaking the url's is uncool, and I see he's done it again but in a different area. there was a link to the topps ANS6 page, and now it points to his ANS6 page. whatever. I don't see the relevance to even having a footnote in that part of the page, so we'll see if it has any legs.

I see greg is following my lead as I had already removed selling info from my page yet greg still keeps taking mine down off of Wiki and sneakily changing the URLs on links I had.  I guess his hypocritical lifestyle knows no end!  At the end of the day, I smile as all he does is validate everything I have said all along about him so if he wants to continue to make my smile every day, works for me!

[Paul_Maul]

Any reason you have not bothered to offer why greg has chosen to continually delete my link instead of leaving both up?

Yes, there is a reason. I'm not Greg and I have no idea why he did it.

[bandaches]

Yes, there is a reason. I'm not Greg and I have no idea why he did it.

Yet you decided to offer your opinion on reasons that you felt WEREN'T a factor.....how is it that you can offer that opinion while you're not greg yet you are unable to muster an opinion on the reasons that WERE a factor....sure seems selective to me and you wonder why I state you are completely greg biased in your posts.....

HEre is the reminder of your opinion in case you forgot:
"I suspect his motivation in changing the page had nothing directly to do with traffic or money."  You offered this all while you are not greg......

[slamjim]

I'm curious...why does wikipedia have such a problem with a link to a page that contains a store as an ancillary component, like Greg's does? The vast majority of the page is fact and scholarship. Is the Metropolitan Museum of Art impure and unworthy because it has a gift shop?

Greg's page is a store with a fan page second. You have it backwards. When you Google it the it clearly says Buy Wackys Here and that is also the first thing on the page. There may be more total words written about facts & stats but the primary focus of the site is a store to sells Greg's stock of Wackys, shirts, books, calendars and bootleg posters. The guy doesn't have an entire extra apartment filled with boxes for the heck of it.

Wacky Packages has it's own page and deserves a place on Wiki while Greg's store does not. Topps deserves a link because they are the owner and creator of Wacky Packages. DC Comics, Marvel, etc all have links to their Official Site. Topps in fact also has it's own Wiki page. The Met has it's own Wiki page and should also have a link to it's own official website on it's page. Linking to fan site of the museum or people selling secondary market items they bought from the museum would be a no-no. That's where the line is drawn.

[ScaryLee]

Maybe the wikipedia page should say Old school series 2 is due out in February of 2011, maybe by Valentines day but maybe not until after Valentines day but definitely before Easter

[ScaryLee]

Greg's page is a store with a fan page second. You have it backwards. When you Google it the it clearly says Buy Wackys Here and that is also the first thing on the page. There may be more total words written about facts & stats but the primary focus of the site is a store to sells Greg's stock of Wackys, shirts, books, calendars and bootleg posters. The guy doesn't have an entire extra apartment filled with boxes for the heck of it.

Wacky Packages has it's own page and deserves a place on Wiki while Greg's store does not. Topps deserves a link because they are the owner and creator of Wacky Packages. DC Comics, Marvel, etc all have links to their Official Site. Topps in fact also has it's own Wiki page. The Met has it's own Wiki page and should also have a link to it's own official website on it's page. Linking to fan site of the museum or people selling secondary market items they bought from the museum would be a no-no. That's where the line is drawn.

Greg has now removed the FOR SALE link off the top of his information page, so I don't see why both Greg's and Ernie's page shouldn't be allowed now. I just hope this pointless war ends soon.

[slamjim]

Greg has now removed the FOR SALE link off the top of his information page, so I don't see why both Greg's and Ernie's page shouldn't be allowed now. I just hope this pointless war ends soon.

You're missing the point. Have you had a chance to read through this thread? Greg is the one removing other people's links and/ or replacing the URL's to his links to redirect to his site. Whenever I added this forum or Ernie's site back I did not remove Greg's in retaliation. Only after people here said remove ALL those links because they violate Wiki rules did we remove all of them (Ernie, Greg, Topps Online Store and both forums). Only Topps official site is there right now. You're posting to the wrong people. There would be no "war" if Greg would stop deleting other people's edits, links or altering them for his own childish and greedy ways because no one here wants to remove Greg's link.

As for Greg changing something on his site I just looked at his opening page and 9/10ths of it still is selling crap with only the small bottom left having links to info pages. It's still a commercial sales site and in violation of the rules.

[Paul_Maul]

As for Greg changing something on his site I just looked at his opening page and 9/10ths of it still is selling crap with only the small bottom left having links to info pages. It's still a commercial sales site and in violation of the rules.

This is the non-commercial version:

http://www.wackypacks.com

[slamjim]

This is the non-commercial version:

http://www.wackypacks.com

Still not the point but what the heck. Looks commercial to me. It still has the forum link which is another violation. Guess that would have to go as well. And there are two links which link to his shopping cart page. He's have to remove those since they are violations as well. All micro examining (and sarcasm) aside we all already know the real point is no one really cared that his site is listed it's that he is not allowing others to list theirs and is deleting any and all info on OLDS for purely personal, opinionated reasons. If the guy would leave everyone else's links or edits alone then we wouldn't have this thread in the first place. None of us wants anything to do with the creep and are perfectly happy to never speak of him again. Unfortunately he is obsessed with us it seems.  

I don't know. It seems to me to make more sense for you and John, instead of posting hopes for some kind of resolution here on this forum, to go straight to the guy doing the vandalism in the first place and tell him you think he's being a dick and should grow up. I'm sure he would ignore you and still do what he is doing (perhaps even more so) but really, we wouldn't even be talking about this if he wasn't doing what he is doing.

[sco(o)t]

This is the non-commercial version:

http://www.wackypacks.com

A serious question... since this website is postured as the definitive site for Wacky Package information, etc.
why is it under the Wacky Packages news, the most recent item (announcement of the 2010 calendar) is over a year old? There is no mention of all the recent releases and products.

[slamjim]

A serious question... since this website is postured as the definitive site for Wacky Package information, etc.
why is it under the Wacky Packages news, the most recent item (announcement of the 2010 calendar) is over a year old? There is no mention of all the recent releases and products.

Greg will no longer post any information on any new Topps release (ANS, OLDS, Postcards, erasers, whatever) due to not being able to cash in on OLDS. So, obviously not the definitive site for Wacky info. Wikipedia should be that. This forum is the top active and up to date forum as well. His is an invite only with a tiny few who bother to attend. His site only really serves to sell his overstock of Wacky product and be a place to bash people that left for this site (or bash Topps). Pretty sad.

[ScaryLee]

You're missing the point. Have you had a chance to read through this thread? Greg is the one removing other people's links and/ or replacing the URL's to his links to redirect to his site. Whenever I added this forum or Ernie's site back I did not remove Greg's in retaliation. Only after people here said remove ALL those links because they violate Wiki rules did we remove all of them (Ernie, Greg, Topps Online Store and both forums). Only Topps official site is there right now. You're posting to the wrong people. There would be no "war" if Greg would stop deleting other people's edits, links or altering them for his own childish and greedy ways because no one here wants to remove Greg's link.

As for Greg changing something on his site I just looked at his opening page and 9/10ths of it still is selling crap with only the small bottom left having links to info pages. It's still a commercial sales site and in violation of the rules.

I see your point but I will never stop hoping for the day that a person will put back the link of a person that they formerly perceived as their enemy. I say "perceived as their enemy" because in truth we have no enemies.