Author Topic: Fake Pack Alert  (Read 17586 times)

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Offline Paul_Maul

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Re: Fake Pack Alert
« Reply #35 on: October 12, 2011, 09:09:40 AM »
A large majority of my packs came from one source, a guy with a store loaded with 1970s stuff including sports and non sports so I am lucky as I know mine are legit.  It was through him that I got my shipping case of the 19 cent version of wacky patches.  The only one that might be of concern is my series 1 pack which came from some guy in the northwest, it seems there have been questions around Dan's series 1 pack and my pack came from the same source.  Do you recall if you ever looked at my series 1 pack?

I don't think I ever looked at any pack from your personal collection. Would be glad to though.

Offline Porkie

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Re: Fake Pack Alert
« Reply #36 on: October 12, 2011, 12:10:16 PM »
I recently purchased a Series 10 pack. I had one a couple years back and decided to get another -- I'll probably open it (in the hopes of pulling a Pupsi) but before I do I'll post a pic of it to see whether or not it appears "legit". Should be receiving it this week.

Offline Paul_Maul

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Re: Fake Pack Alert
« Reply #37 on: October 12, 2011, 01:07:03 PM »
I recently purchased a Series 10 pack. I had one a couple years back and decided to get another -- I'll probably open it (in the hopes of pulling a Pupsi) but before I do I'll post a pic of it to see whether or not it appears "legit". Should be receiving it this week.

Who was it purchased from?

Offline Dr Popper

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Re: Fake Pack Alert
« Reply #38 on: October 12, 2011, 02:35:50 PM »
A large majority of my packs came from one source, a guy with a store loaded with 1970s stuff including sports and non sports so I am lucky as I know mine are legit.  It was through him that I got my shipping case of the 19 cent version of wacky patches.  The only one that might be of concern is my series 1 pack which came from some guy in the northwest, it seems there have been questions around Dan's series 1 pack and my pack came from the same source.  Do you recall if you ever looked at my series 1 pack?

Do you have a good collection of packs?  Are they primarily S1-16 or do you others as well? 
Dr Popper (aka Rob Palmer)

Offline bandaches

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Re: Fake Pack Alert
« Reply #39 on: October 12, 2011, 03:04:25 PM »
I don't think I ever looked at any pack from your personal collection. Would be glad to though.
I only have like 5 packs, one of each color so it isn't much to look at.
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Offline bandaches

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Re: Fake Pack Alert
« Reply #40 on: October 12, 2011, 03:05:57 PM »
Do you have a good collection of packs?  Are they primarily S1-16 or do you others as well? 
I don't collect packs, I only kept one of each color for my "keeper" collection.  My surplus packs range from series 3 - 16 but not every series is covered.  As silly as this seems, I think Dave has a better idea of what I have than I do as I know he has been through them several times.
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Offline Paul_Maul

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Re: Fake Pack Alert
« Reply #41 on: October 13, 2011, 08:40:16 AM »
I don't collect packs, I only kept one of each color for my "keeper" collection.  My surplus packs range from series 3 - 16 but not every series is covered.  As silly as this seems, I think Dave has a better idea of what I have than I do as I know he has been through them several times.

LOL, you're right, I know exactly what you have. Several yellow 4ths, several 9ths and 10ths, and I believe maybe a 12th,13th, 14th or 15th here or there. That's my recollection. And the water damaged 3rds. Don't recall if you still have unopened 16ths.

Offline bandaches

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Re: Fake Pack Alert
« Reply #42 on: October 13, 2011, 09:08:27 PM »
LOL, you're right, I know exactly what you have. Several yellow 4ths, several 9ths and 10ths, and I believe maybe a 12th,13th, 14th or 15th here or there. That's my recollection. And the water damaged 3rds. Don't recall if you still have unopened 16ths.
I still have that box of damaged 3rds that you and I will going to open up to make sure the knight move applies.   I have a couple of unopened 16ths including one with a Scoot no copyright that can be clearly seen through the pack.  One of the 10ths has a pupsi that can be seen through the pack.  Those are keepers for me at the moment but I often get offers for them.  I have some yellow funpacks too.
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Offline Porkie

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Re: Fake Pack Alert
« Reply #43 on: October 17, 2011, 09:44:24 PM »
Who was it purchased from?

Sorry -- fell of the planet on this one... Was purchased from peacemaker1223. Kinda regretted it after purchasing, but thought what the heck. It was one of those whim things that I didn't think through completely.

It arrived and needless to say was not the greatest quality. Basically was really old. Was having a rough day and decided to open it. Yikes. One of the "mildewy Wackys". Ugh. Gum was like something from a horror flick. Badzooka and Greaseline stickers had mold on them. Tossed 'em. Going to "zap" the wrapper (put out in the sun for a little bit (not too long) and will use a UV zapper I have) to get ride of any residual mold/mildew smell and will isolate from the rest of my collection.

So I basically spent $12.89 + shipping for a purple wrapper... Not one of my best purchases but chalked it up as an educational experience.  :-[

At some point I'd like to have one of each of the six "basic" different-colored vintage wrappers, so figured this is a start. :^)

Offline Hustler08

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Re: Fake Pack Alert
« Reply #44 on: October 21, 2011, 01:00:32 PM »
Sorry -- fell of the planet on this one... Was purchased from peacemaker1223. Kinda regretted it after purchasing, but thought what the heck. It was one of those whim things that I didn't think through completely.

It arrived and needless to say was not the greatest quality. Basically was really old. Was having a rough day and decided to open it. Yikes. One of the "mildewy Wackys". Ugh. Gum was like something from a horror flick. Badzooka and Greaseline stickers had mold on them. Tossed 'em. Going to "zap" the wrapper (put out in the sun for a little bit (not too long) and will use a UV zapper I have) to get ride of any residual mold/mildew smell and will isolate from the rest of my collection.

So I basically spent $12.89 + shipping for a purple wrapper... Not one of my best purchases but chalked it up as an educational experience.  :-[

At some point I'd like to have one of each of the six "basic" different-colored vintage wrappers, so figured this is a start. :^)


I opened a Series 5 pack from that seller as well and the stickers and puzzle were nice ex/nrmt condition...I will bring this and others to the show for Dave's ( Paul Maul) review...

Offline Paul_Maul

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Re: Fake Pack Alert
« Reply #45 on: March 21, 2012, 12:17:08 PM »

Offline Porkie

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Re: Fake Pack Alert
« Reply #46 on: March 21, 2012, 12:20:18 PM »
Quick quiz: which one of these three 10th series packs is a re-sealed fake?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Wacky-Packages-1974-3-unopened-10th-series-wax-packs-/280849158397?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4163ea10fd

I would say the upper-right, but I'm definitely not an expert. :)

Offline Paul_Maul

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Re: Fake Pack Alert
« Reply #47 on: March 21, 2012, 12:23:22 PM »
I would say the upper-right, but I'm definitely not an expert. :)

We have a winner! As always, the seller is mostly likely sincere and unaware, and this shouldn't be taken as a condemnation of what is probably a top-notch seller  :great:

Offline Porkie

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Re: Fake Pack Alert
« Reply #48 on: March 21, 2012, 02:22:52 PM »
Excellent! These are things I noticed and you can tell me if I'm right/wrong on each, all of which I noticed on the rear scan (which I think is the only way to tell):

* There are no wrinkles/ripples near the fold-over flaps. Basically looks like it was ironed/pressed after-the-fact.

* Where the main fold meets the text reveals a razor-perfect line. This seems too perfect to me.

* Ooh! Just noticed: the main fold is "over" the fold with all the text, where it should be under, right?

* The left side of the picture shows the fold-over flaps ending perfectly with the edge of the pack. Again too perfect.

* With the fold-over flaps it seems like you should see them in a /  \ or \  / pattern (depending on which end you are looking at) not a /  / or \  \ pattern (where one flap is completely under). This looks odd to me.

I should make a picture of these, but hopefully you can understand my layman's terms. :)

Offline Deaf Geoff

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Re: Fake Pack Alert
« Reply #49 on: March 21, 2012, 02:24:04 PM »
Okay, when you say 'fake pack' do you mean the wrapper or stickers are not real?

Or is it a reseal using vintage, legitimate material?
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Offline Paul_Maul

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Re: Fake Pack Alert
« Reply #50 on: March 21, 2012, 02:28:25 PM »
Okay, when you say 'fake pack' do you mean the wrapper or stickers are not real?

Or is it a reseal using vintage, legitimate material?

It's a re-seal using a real wrapper and (presumably) real stickers and checklist as the contents. It just isn't an original, unopened pack.

Offline Paul_Maul

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Re: Fake Pack Alert
« Reply #51 on: March 21, 2012, 02:31:03 PM »

* Ooh! Just noticed: the main fold is "over" the fold with all the text, where it should be under, right?

 

This is the really conclusive piece of evidence. You're right that the folds don't look right. This is typical of the many fake packs that were consigned on ebay over a period of years from the same source.

Offline bandaches

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Re: Fake Pack Alert
« Reply #52 on: March 21, 2012, 02:31:07 PM »
We have a winner! As always, the seller is mostly likely sincere and unaware, and this shouldn't be taken as a condemnation of what is probably a top-notch seller  :great:
Are you possibly putting too much faith in Topps packer quality control in the 1970s and assuming they wrapped all packs in a similar manner?
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Offline Paul_Maul

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Re: Fake Pack Alert
« Reply #53 on: March 21, 2012, 02:35:35 PM »
Are you possibly putting too much faith in Topps packer quality control in the 1970s and assuming they wrapped all packs in a similar manner?

Nah, we've been through this, none of us have ever come up with a single 85-fold pack wrapped this way that was legit. You had scores of such packs and every one was real and wrapped the same way. Anything's technically possible, but I would bet every cent I have this pack is fake.

Offline Porkie

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Re: Fake Pack Alert
« Reply #54 on: March 21, 2012, 03:32:26 PM »
Weren't the 70's wrappers on a big roll? If so, I believe they would all go through the same mechanical process to fold and thus would always be done the same, albeit with minor differences (i.e. all the folds the same way but +/- so many 1/100ths of an inch).

Offline bandaches

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Re: Fake Pack Alert
« Reply #55 on: March 21, 2012, 11:23:05 PM »
Nah, we've been through this, none of us have ever come up with a single 85-fold pack wrapped this way that was legit. You had scores of such packs and every one was real and wrapped the same way. Anything's technically possible, but I would bet every cent I have this pack is fake.
Fair enough!
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Offline Paul_Maul

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Re: Fake Pack Alert
« Reply #56 on: March 22, 2012, 06:27:29 AM »
Ernie, I gave this some thought last night. It may be impossible for a legitimate pack to be wrapped the wrong way just based on the mechanics of the process. It seems like the only way it could happen would be for the wrapper to be positioned upside down during the packing process. But the wrappers come in rolls and are presumably fed into some machine in that way. So it may be impossible for the wrapper to be upside down during the wrapping process. That could be why such an "error" has never surfaced. I don't know enough about the machinery involved to really be sure of anything, of course.

Offline Paul_Maul

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Re: Fake Pack Alert
« Reply #57 on: March 22, 2012, 06:29:00 AM »
Weren't the 70's wrappers on a big roll? If so, I believe they would all go through the same mechanical process to fold and thus would always be done the same, albeit with minor differences (i.e. all the folds the same way but +/- so many 1/100ths of an inch).

You read my mind! That's what I was thinking, being fed through a machine in rolls would force the wrappers to be consistently oriented during the wrapping process.

Offline DrSushi

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Re: Fake Pack Alert
« Reply #58 on: March 22, 2012, 06:54:01 AM »
Quick quiz: which one of these three 10th series packs is a re-sealed fake?


Thanks for the quiz, always good to learn/review this stuff!

Offline Paul_Maul

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Re: Fake Pack Alert
« Reply #59 on: May 14, 2012, 08:46:29 PM »
Here's a great article discussing the state of unopened pack tampering/faking in the sports card arena. The interviewee is
Steve Hart, owner of the Baseball Card Exchange and authenticator of unopened material for PSA:

http://www.sportscollectorsdaily.com/vintage-pack-resealers-prey-on-uninformed-collectors/

Offline Kook

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Re: Fake Pack Alert
« Reply #60 on: May 15, 2012, 05:39:08 AM »
Here's a great article discussing the state of unopened pack tampering/faking in the sports card arena. The interviewee is
Steve Hart, owner of the Baseball Card Exchange and authenticator of unopened material for PSA:

http://www.sportscollectorsdaily.com/vintage-pack-resealers-prey-on-uninformed-collectors/

Interesting article. Is there any information about how to spot a fake wacky unopened pack? I remember something about your hesitation to publish info about the topic since it would help pack fakers in addition to collectors.

Offline Paul_Maul

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Re: Fake Pack Alert
« Reply #61 on: May 15, 2012, 06:31:11 AM »
Interesting article. Is there any information about how to spot a fake wacky unopened pack? I remember something about your hesitation to publish info about the topic since it would help pack fakers in addition to collectors.

His comments about baseball wax packs apply almost exactly to 21-fold wacky unopened packs.The 85-fold packs, as you
know, have a different type of wax roller seal, and it's not really well known in baseball card circles because I believe the
only baseball packs sealed in this manner are the 1-cent packs which were discontinued in 1966.

Offline Paul_Maul

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Re: Fake Pack Alert
« Reply #62 on: September 16, 2012, 08:25:05 AM »
I finally found an image that depicts very nicely what the wax roller mark on a legitimate 21-fold pack should look like. This
picture was taken and enhanced using photoshop by a baseball card collector who specializes in the 1978 and 1979 baseball
sets:


 

anything