"Who is going to the Philly Show"

[BumChex]

Of all the people I met that day, I did happen to meet John Williams - he was really nice and friendly to both my daughter and me...Can't see how greg would want to argue with him???

Greg has always tried to make a business out of this hobby. Topps has held their ground on the OLDS line so I have no idea what else he has up his sleeve.

[Paul_Maul]

Greg has always tried to make a business out of this hobby. 

Is that really fair or accurate?

[BumChex]

Is that really fair or accurate?

Then why does he have a tax ID for his business of selling cards? I would say this is fair and accurate.

[Paul_Maul]

Then why does he have a tax ID for his business of selling cards? I would say this is fair and accurate.

Your post said: "Greg has always tried to make a business out of this hobby." A new collector might not realize that from 1998-2004, Greg was no more in business than you or I, selling casually to other collectors. Such a collector might not realize that, while Greg has certainly developed a business identity for his website since then, he had a long history of hard work and hobby devotion performed with no demonstrable business agenda. Your statement (perhaps unintentionally) misrepresents that history.

[BumChex]

Your post said: "Greg has always tried to make a business out of this hobby." A new collector might not realize that from 1998-2004, Greg was no more in business than you or I, selling casually to other collectors. Such a collector might not realize that, while Greg has certainly developed a business identity for his website since then, he had a long history of hard work and hobby devotion performed with no demonstrable business agenda. Your statement (perhaps unintentionally) misrepresents that history.

My history with Greg started in 2004 so that is all I know. I know he was pissed at Topps when they wouldn't allow him to resell OLDS. My guess is he's trying to work out another deal with Topps on another venture and Topps may not want to play ball and that is why they had a heated discussion. Topps has their own site and plenty of word of mouth so I assume they don't need a middle man to pitch their wares. I really have no idea what they would be arguing about so it's just an assumption. Things sure got heated on the other forum between Greg and David Gross over OLDS. It was all business at the time for Greg.
Please note that I have no bad feelings for Greg and I always found him to be a good guy. I've met him a couple times and we had good conversations and nothing that would make me not like the guy. He has done nothing wrong to me. I'm just making this assumption based on the comments about a heated exchange between him and Topps. Why else would there be a heated conversation if it wasn't around business?

[Paul_Maul]

I'm just making this assumption based on the comments about a heated exchange between him and Topps. Why else would there be a heated conversation if it wasn't around business?

I'm sure the heated exchange WAS around business. All I disputed was your original statement, which is false and depicts Greg's participation in the hobby unfairly.

 

[bandaches]

Is that really fair or accurate?

Yes, it is totally fair and accurate.  Brad didn't say greg has EXCLUSIVELY made the hobby a business but he sure has made making money in the hobby a very high priority.  His issues with Topps are business and money related.  Just because greg feels his trust was breached doesn't mean the core isn't still about his being an authorized and preferred reseller of product.  Are you suggesting greg has made making money a very small low priority in this hobby?

[bandaches]

Your post said: "Greg has always tried to make a business out of this hobby." A new collector might not realize that from 1998-2004, Greg was no more in business than you or I, selling casually to other collectors. Such a collector might not realize that, while Greg has certainly developed a business identity for his website since then, he had a long history of hard work and hobby devotion performed with no demonstrable business agenda. Your statement (perhaps unintentionally) misrepresents that history.

You are incorrect.  From 1998 to 2004, greg was very actively involved in reslleing original series stuff.  I am not distringuishing it from the reselling many of the rest of us did, just calling out facts.

When new wackys came out, he supplemented his business with the new stuff.  Your suggesting he spent 6 years solely pouring free blood sweat and tears into the hobby is fiction.

[Paul_Maul]

You are incorrect.  From 1998 to 2004, greg was very actively involved in reslleing original series stuff.  I am not distringuishing it from the reselling many of the rest of us did, just calling out facts.

When new wackys came out, he supplemented his business with the new stuff.  Your suggesting he spent 6 years solely pouring free blood sweat and tears into the hobby is fiction.

I agree that Greg was selling in much the same way you were when I entered the hobby. If someone described you by saying "Ernie has always tried to make a business out of this hobby," would you think that sounded fair or pejorative? Would you think it downplayed your other contributions to the hobby?

I guess the degree to which it's accurate is in the eye of the beholder.  

[bandaches]

I agree that Greg was selling in much the same way you were when I entered the hobby. If someone described you by saying "Ernie has always tried to make a business out of this hobby," would you think that sounded fair or pejorative? Would you think it downplayed your other contributions to the hobby?

I guess the degree to which it's accurate is in the eye of the beholder.  

I would say greg has described me in this way maybe 1000 times and not a single time did you find the need to defend me so for some reason you have now decided that such a description has a negative connotation that is worth defending immediately or you have a bias.  I believe the latter to be true, you fear the rebuttal you would receive if you dared ever to stand up to greg.

I would say it has been true that I have ALWAYS flipped my extras for a buck in order to finance my buying more stuff and that is exactly how I have "qualified" the statement in the past.  Now I flip stuff just to get rid of it as there is so little left I need to buy.  I rarely buy collections any more even if I feel I could flip them for a profit as I no longer need to bankroll my collecting. 

Maybe my skin is thick than greg's(ie or your playing the role of greg's skin...again). I just don't see the comment as being as negative as you are taking it on greg's behalf.  Let's face it, you run to greg's aid pretty frequently and I would say it is about 99-1 ratio of your defending greg versus being critical of him. 

Do you condone the fact that he has now thrown a tantrum at a show at least three times over the years?  Long ago by screaming at Brian, somewhat recently when he had a fit when you found the blue 8th packs and wouldn't split the lot in half with him and at this recent show.  I am sure there are others.

[BumChex]

I'm not talking about putting sets together to resell as being a business. I think the business aspect occurred for Greg around ANS2. He had cases piled up to the ceiling. I bought some stuff at his house and he printed a receipt so he could keep track for his taxes. To me, that's a business. I expect he bought the cases of boxes from Topps at a wholesale price and was selling them on the side. I don't know because I didn't buy my boxes from Greg. I was always true to Lockwood because Lockwood had great prices and service. Sure miss that guy....

[bandaches]

Is that really fair or accurate?

greg has taken the business aspect of this to the extreme for about 8 years which is more than half of his wacky pack career.  Your worrying about whether newbies will view greg as business first is the bed greg has made for the last 8 years.  For you to declare that for those first 6 years that greg " showed no demonstrable business agenda" is really wildly off the mark.  The business side may not have completely consumed him but your declaring it was ZERO is really quite strange.  I can't fathom how you possibly perceive it that way to the point that you would take it upon yourself to declare Brad's view as unfair.

[Soremel]

I posted this in the "Philly Show" thread but I don't see it showing up in this section so I'll post it here as well..............
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________

I had a lot of fun at the show.  Just off the top of my head and I'm sure I'll forget someone, I spent time with the following.........

Bill Farinella
Mark Bauer
Mark Shoemaker
Mark Lavoie
Greg Grant
Matt Stock
Dave Schmidt
Shawn Peters
Dave Gross
George Wright
John Grisham
Clint Coleman
Marc Simon

Mike Jasperson and Dave Gross were behind the Topps booth a lot but Dave also came out for a little while to hang at the tables we were trading at.  Topps had a booth for Wackys and also a lot of Mars Attacks stuff.  Sounds like both ANS9 and Mars Attacks might both release in July within the same week.

George Wright was the only one smart enough to take a couple pictures of the Wacky gang trading at the tables so hopefully he'll post the pics here.  I also say I'm going to do it and always forget.

Between the booths and trading or buying from Wacky buddies I picked up @ 15 titles I needed for upgrades.  I also picked up 2 of the 3 Phoney Record stickers I need to complete my set, and I'm bummed because I can't find them now!  I paid $15 each for them.  The dealer didn't have anything I could put them in so I stuck them inside one of the supply catalogs that came with the admission bags, and I folded it up in one of the pages so it wouldn't fall out, but now I can't find the catalog!  I know it's a shot in the dark but if anyone picked up any catalogs on the tables we were collecting please check them.  I'm thinking that's probably where I left it.

It was fun to meet just about everyone in the list posted above! I want to give a proper shout-out to Mr. "Shoe" for the unopened box of WP Old School 2 that he gave me on Saturday! That was very generous and much appreciated!

[Dr Popper]

It was fun to meet just about everyone in the list posted above! I want to give a proper shout-out to Mr. "Shoe" for the unopened box of WP Old School 2 that he gave me on Saturday! That was very generous and much appreciated!

Shoe has always been generous giving stuff away.  I got a box from him too.  My box didn't come with a sketch card so I feel a little cheated though.  Haha

[Buzzooka]

Shoe has always been generous giving stuff away.  I got a box from him too.  My box didn't come with a sketch card so I feel a little cheated though.  Haha

That is too bad Rob, my box had two! Haha. Just kidding, but that Shoe is a heck of a guy eh! Thanks again Mark.

[Hustler08]

Shoe has always been generous giving stuff away.  I got a box from him too.  My box didn't come with a sketch card so I feel a little cheated though.  Haha

same here - Thx Brother Shoe!! from my daughter as well..she had fun ripping open the packs....got two sets and was ready to sell the second on evilbay....hustlin' just like dad

[Kook]

Shoe has always been generous giving stuff away.  I got a box from him too.  My box didn't come with a sketch card so I feel a little cheated though.  Haha

I received a box as well. Unexpected & very generous. Thanks Shoe!

[Kook]

I think Greg has done a lot for the hobby IMO. I regularly use his website for reference, and used his forum for years before everyone relocated here. He was fair in any dealings I've had with him & has also given me some very good deals, and helped me find some tough items as well. I could care less whether I dealt with him as "Greg" or "Greg Grant Collectibles LLC."

Does it matter whether he treats his hobby as a business? Is it anybody's business but his what his motivations are for doing business in the hobby or collecting, or which percentage is higher? Seems anybody's success in business is directly related to how well they serve their customer. If he has a big business, I would think he is making a proportional contribution to his fellow collectors. I don't know why it would be considered "evil" at all to make your hobby into a business if you can. Having a successful business is nothing to be ashamed of.

[BumChex]

I think Greg has done a lot for the hobby IMO. I regularly use his website for reference, and used his forum for years before everyone relocated here. He was fair in any dealings I've had with him & has also given me some very good deals, and helped me find some tough items as well. I could care less whether I dealt with him as "Greg" or "Greg Grant Collectibles LLC."

Does it matter whether he treats his hobby as a business? Is it anybody's business but his what his motivations are for doing business in the hobby or collecting, or which percentage is higher? Seems anybody's success in business is directly related to how well they serve their customer. If he has a big business, I would think he is making a proportional contribution to his fellow collectors. I don't know why it would be considered "evil" at all to make your hobby into a business if you can. Having a successful business is nothing to be ashamed of.

Bill, I don't think anyone cares what Greg's agenda is. I just mentioned he has been all business since 2004 because it was mentioned that he was arguing with Topps at the show. It's pretty easy to put 2 and 2 together and know this confrontation was about business. I wasn't there so I only made an assumption post. It's really not that big of deal. The only reason we are mentions Greg is because his name was dropped about the heated discussion.

[bandaches]

I don't know why it would be considered "evil" at all to make your hobby into a business if you can. Having a successful business is nothing to be ashamed of.

I agree with you completely which is why it is interesting that immediately Brad was called out for portraying an unfair image of greg when seems widely accepted that greg has turned wacky pack hobby into a business TOO!

[Paul_Maul]

Greg has clearly been running a business for awhile now, no doubt about it. I also agree that there's nothing wrong with that. Perhaps it's my fault for reading more into the original comment than was intended. The context of the comment made it sound like all Greg ever cared about in the hobby was profit. We all know that isn't true, but I'm sure Brad didn't really mean it that way, so let's forget it.

[Dr Popper]

I also forgot to mention something exciting (at least for me) that happened at the show.  I was going through Matt's box of series 1 whites looking for 1979 Test pack cards, and I actually found one!  It was a Minute Lice and clearly had the squared off corners.  Unfortunately I didn't need that particular title so I turned it back in to Matt and told him what it was, but it was a cool find anyway. 

It just goes to show that although they are rare and often hard to spot, there are some mixed in with regular ones, you just have to learn what to look for.

[bandaches]

I also forgot to mention something exciting (at least for me) that happened at the show.  I was going through Matt's box of series 1 whites looking for 1979 Test pack cards, and I actually found one!  It was a Minute Lice and clearly had the squared off corners.  Unfortunately I didn't need that particular title so I turned it back in to Matt and told him what it was, but it was a cool find anyway. 

It just goes to show that although they are rare and often hard to spot, there are some mixed in with regular ones, you just have to learn what to look for.

Too funny!  Did you check his series 1's and 2's to see if he had ludlows in his sets?  The square cut test stickers are not hard to distinguish at all.

[Dr Popper]

Too funny!  Did you check his series 1's and 2's to see if he had ludlows in his sets?  The square cut test stickers are not hard to distinguish at all.

No Luds, your probably kidding but the Ludlows would jump out at you, but you really have to be looking for the 1979 test die-cut patterns to distinguish them.  I don't think Matt has any idea what they look like.  Even Dave told me he wouldn't recognize one which surprised me because he's so into the vintage cards and is always scrutinizing nice originals.

[bandaches]

No Luds, your probably kidding but the Ludlows would jump out at you, but you really have to be looking for the 1979 test die-cut patterns to distinguish them.  I don't think Matt has any idea what they look like.  Even Dave told me he wouldn't recognize one which surprised me because he's so into the vintage cards and is always scrutinizing nice originals.

I can even find cut hostess doubles in a stack of cards.  No joke, I think I have all of the hostess cards as singles by finding them in stashes.  I also happened to find a Mrs Klean UK sticker in a stash which completed a series 1 for me.  It really isn't as hard as you think.  Variations in copyright or square cuts on series 1 stickers stand out pretty readily if one knows what to look for.  I think ignorance and sometimes laziness play a bigger part than people having the inability to see the stuff....Crap, I picked up a series 2 set at a show that had been reviewed by just about everyone else before me....half the set was ludlows so I bought it for like $100.  Pure laziness to just flip the set over is why most didn't spot it.  When I review series 1, 2 and 3 stashes, I always flip the stacks over as the back colors are significant. 

[Ruffs]

So that's it.  I don't think it's animated, though. Unless you clothespin it to your bicycle spokes or something.

Here is the Jay card signed. I put it on my bicycle spokes then tried to look at it but I fell off my bike

[Jean Nutty]

Here is the Jay card signed. I put it on my bicycle spokes then tried to look at it but I fell off my bike

I hope you did not go flying over the handle bars and are OK!

[Bigmuc13]

Shoe has always been generous giving stuff away.  I got a box from him too.  My box didn't come with a sketch card so I feel a little cheated though.  Haha

So then I guess you got a shoe box!   bada boom!

[Paul_Maul]

I can even find cut hostess doubles in a stack of cards.  No joke, I think I have all of the hostess cards as singles by finding them in stashes.  I also happened to find a Mrs Klean UK sticker in a stash which completed a series 1 for me.  It really isn't as hard as you think.  Variations in copyright or square cuts on series 1 stickers stand out pretty readily if one knows what to look for.  I think ignorance and sometimes laziness play a bigger part than people having the inability to see the stuff....Crap, I picked up a series 2 set at a show that had been reviewed by just about everyone else before me....half the set was ludlows so I bought it for like $100.  Pure laziness to just flip the set over is why most didn't spot it.  When I review series 1, 2 and 3 stashes, I always flip the stacks over as the back colors are significant. 

You are definitely the best at finding stuff like this. It's not so much laziness, you just have to have the ability to maintain focus. I have a very hard time with this. I start to feel like if I spend too much time at one table I'm missing out on something somewhere else, so I have a hard time really searching carefully, and rarely spot things at shows.

[bandaches]

You are definitely the best at finding stuff like this. It's not so much laziness, you just have to have the ability to maintain focus. I have a very hard time with this. I start to feel like if I spend too much time at one table I'm missing out on something somewhere else, so I have a hard time really searching carefully, and rarely spot things at shows.

I guess I don't worry about mssing something somewhere else as there is no more certainty these is something somewhere else as there is at the table you are already exploring.  Notice I rarely every got to shows to be first on line as I never cared, I am not a rat race kind of guy.

Despiite greg's lies stating otherwise, I rarely got in early with dealers, in fact I believe in the stretch of missing only one show across Philly, Secaucus, Parsippany over the 10 year period from 1998-2008Ie 29 shows), I think I went in early with dealers 3 times all at the request of the dealers for me to help them sort new wacky pack collections they had purchased.

[Porkie]

Man, reading about the shows makes me sad to have been too far West to have attended over all these years... 

The idea of meeting fellow collectors, seeing people's collections, and going through stacks of Wackys sounds like fun.

Hopefully someday!

[Dr Popper]

Man, reading about the shows makes me sad to have been too far West to have attended over all these years... 

The idea of meeting fellow collectors, seeing people's collections, and going through stacks of Wackys sounds like fun.

Hopefully someday!

Find a cheap flight and make a weekend out of it!  You couldn't do it often but if the flight was cheap enough it might be worth doing it once.   

[bandaches]

I'm sure the heated exchange WAS around business. All I disputed was your original statement, which is false and depicts Greg's participation in the hobby unfairly.

 

The more I hear about this exchange the more I am hearing it was quite ugly and greg fired off some loud profanity.  Can anyone verify?  Seems that would be pretty disruptive behavior towards a Vendor of the show that maybe could have been taken off line eh?  People do want Topps to attend these shows, correct? For the record, I am not a fan of John Williams as he lied to me in the past which caused me to have quite a bit of angst towards Topps too.  I just never decided to show up there to cause an in person confrontation about it.

[Paul_Maul]

The more I hear about this exchange the more I am hearing it was quite ugly and greg fired off some loud profanity.  Can anyone verify?  

While I didn't witness it, I believe there was a bird and an f.u.

[Paul_Maul]

For the record, I am not a fan of John Williams as he lied to me in the past which caused me to have quite a bit of angst towards Topps too.  I just never decided to show up there to cause an in person confrontation about it.

Just curious, what did he lie to you about?