Author Topic: Common 1967 Die-Cuts Item  (Read 1894 times)

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Offline Paul_Maul

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Re: Common 1967 Die-Cuts Item
« Reply #35 on: November 28, 2022, 07:28:38 AM »
You are right. Based on BBCEís certification, it should not be called unopened. Though in this case, the  overwhelming likelihood is that this box is original. That would be much less likely were this an issue (like 1980 baseball or something) where loose packs are easily available.

This is another reason why itís so important to be able to see the contents. Itís usually pretty easy to tell if it is an original box based on a uniform appearance of the packs if you are experienced.

Offline jleonard1967

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Re: Common 1967 Die-Cuts Item
« Reply #36 on: November 28, 2022, 11:17:55 AM »
Am I wondering if this is an early box and there is a chance for a Ratz of Cracked, or if a later box with the chance for a 21 Jolly Mean and the other # oddities.  I also feel it is a middle run box though ( my luck) that has neither of the early or late issue cards

Offline drono

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Re: Common 1967 Die-Cuts Item
« Reply #37 on: November 28, 2022, 12:40:35 PM »
It allows the buyer to see what the packs actually look like. Whether they are nice and fresh, or moldy, or whatever, beyond the paramount question of their legitimacy.

With all the money BBCE gets for a high dollar box like this, you'd think they would have come up with a solution so the contents could be viewed.  There could be an option offering a sealed Lucite box with the lid opened so the packs are visible.  Or maybe wrap the box and the packs separately and display them side by side rather than with the packs inside. 

Most boxes fit within a few standard sizes, so it wouldn't take a whole lot of custom boxes.  If I was getting a $100 box wrapped, I probably wouldn't bother, but if I was paying $500+ for a box like this, I'd pay an extra $200 for this option.  In my eyes, the enjoyment of seeing the packs would be worth it.  Now, if I could smell the packs like when they first hit the shelves, that would be perfect.

Offline bandaches

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Re: Common 1967 Die-Cuts Item
« Reply #38 on: November 28, 2022, 04:39:43 PM »
It allows the buyer to see what the packs actually look like. Whether they are nice and fresh, or moldy, or whatever, beyond the paramount question of their legitimacy.
Which again is irrelevant if the box will never be unwrapped and opened again.  With every post, it firms my stance that full wrapped boxes are a complete waste of existence.  Maybe it is like dreaming of being with a pinup chick, stare at the poster, dream of what can never happen, dream of what will never be seen?  dunno, I just don't get it.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2022, 06:28:17 PM by bandaches »
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Offline bandaches

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Re: Common 1967 Die-Cuts Item
« Reply #39 on: November 28, 2022, 04:41:20 PM »
When did this thread have anything to do with Greg? Talk about out of left fieldÖ.
Yup, left field, but always good to rationalize your tangent path with one that came later....
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Offline bandaches

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Re: Common 1967 Die-Cuts Item
« Reply #40 on: November 28, 2022, 04:43:52 PM »
Who said they are ďnever going to be killed?Ē Hal Steinbrenner has purchased expensive boxes like this because he wanted to open them. So he obviously wants to be sure they are legitimate. That is the one key issue whether the buyer wants to open the packs or not.
yes, for the 1% who will kill the packs, it makes sense and again.....in their hands, the boxes will be killed, all other existence of wrapped boxes is a waste.  I wonder how many Pupsi's Hal pulled from the 10th box I sold him that 100% had pupsi's in it as one could be seen thru the pack.  I still have one such 10th pack...should I waste money and have BBCE or PSA slab it?  HAHAHA nope!
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Offline bandaches

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Re: Common 1967 Die-Cuts Item
« Reply #41 on: November 28, 2022, 04:53:12 PM »
Iím still not clear on how they can authenticate and claim this as an ďUnopened ď box, if this did not come from a case as you said.
To me Unopened implies itís as originally packed by Topps, and itís something much more than a box full of authentic packs. Why is this not listed as Full Box of authentic packs?
EXACTLY!  This box could have been cobbled together with packs from all sorts of sources so it is nothing more than certifying a pile of packs in a box that they KNOW most won't bother to unseal but it is important for BBCE to make sure perception is bigger than that so they can roll in the $ on this.
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Offline toddbarrett

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Re: Common 1967 Die-Cuts Item
« Reply #42 on: December 02, 2022, 01:21:45 PM »
Am I seeing this correct, $64,000!?!?

How many packs were in a box? And is there anyway to tell if this is a box that was packed before Ratz and Cracked were pulled?

Offline toddbarrett

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Re: Common 1967 Die-Cuts Item
« Reply #43 on: December 02, 2022, 01:39:37 PM »
Sorry, I can answer my own questions...

In the Argyropoulos book he mentions that artwork on the box denotes if it was from 1967 or 1968. The "Campy" Spider Soup artwork is the earlier 1967 box thought to contain Ratz and Cracked. The "Tasty" Spider Soup artwork is on the 1968 boxes which are thought to contain no Ratz or Cracked. This auction was for a "Campy" Spider Soup box.

http://milehighcardco.com/Exceptionally_Rare_1967_Topps_Wacky_Packages_Unope-LOT89463.aspx

I couldn't find anywhere in the book how many packs were in a box though.

Still an amazing price!!!

Todd B.

Offline RawGoo

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Re: Common 1967 Die-Cuts Item
« Reply #44 on: December 02, 2022, 01:46:54 PM »
Sorry, I can answer my own questions...

In the Argyropoulos book he mentions that artwork on the box denotes if it was from 1967 or 1968. The "Campy" Spider Soup artwork is the earlier 1967 box thought to contain Ratz and Cracked. The "Tasty" Spider Soup artwork is on the 1968 boxes which are thought to contain no Ratz or Cracked. This auction was for a "Campy" Spider Soup box.

http://milehighcardco.com/Exceptionally_Rare_1967_Topps_Wacky_Packages_Unope-LOT89463.aspx

I couldn't find anywhere in the book how many packs were in a box though.

Still an amazing price!!!

Todd B.

My box (Campy Spider Soup) says 24 packs.

Offline bigtomi

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Re: Common 1967 Die-Cuts Item
« Reply #45 on: December 02, 2022, 01:52:17 PM »
I couldn't find anywhere in the book how many packs were in a box though.
If you look at the second photo in the auction, in the top left corner of the side of the box, it shows "24 ct.". So, 24 packs, 5 stickers per pack.

This is also documented here.

Offline RawGoo

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Re: Common 1967 Die-Cuts Item
« Reply #46 on: December 02, 2022, 01:58:35 PM »
If you look at the second photo in the auction, in the top left corner of the side of the box, it shows "24 ct.". So, 24 packs, 5 stickers per pack.

This is also documented here.

Another great job by Greg.

Offline bigtomi

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Re: Common 1967 Die-Cuts Item
« Reply #47 on: December 02, 2022, 02:07:59 PM »
Another great job by Greg.
Yes. Unfortunately, the actual die-cut page(s) seem to have incorrect information, specifically about the sequencing of the boxes and other inconsistencies, as well. It would confuse me, if I didn't know better. Things like Tasty box came before Campy...then contradicts elsewhere. Hopefully, it'll be fixed eventually. Oh, MiiiIIIke?!?!? Calling Mr. Proofreader! lol

Offline mikecho

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Re: Common 1967 Die-Cuts Item
« Reply #48 on: December 02, 2022, 02:58:50 PM »
Yes. Unfortunately, the actual die-cut page(s) seem to have incorrect information, specifically about the sequencing of the boxes and other inconsistencies, as well. It would confuse me, if I didn't know better. Things like Tasty box came before Campy...then contradicts elsewhere. Hopefully, it'll be fixed eventually. Oh, MiiiIIIke?!?!? Calling Mr. Proofreader! lol
Unfortunately, I don't know that much about the history of Wacky Packages boxes. My guess - and it's only a guess - is that Campy appeared first, then was changed to Tasty after Campy as a sticker was C&Ded. That seems like it would be right. However, Greg's page on the Die-Cuts does say the Die-Cuts' wrapper always had Campy on it. Obviously, there was no way that could be changed.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2022, 07:47:21 PM by mikecho »

Offline Plastered Peanut

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Re: Common 1967 Die-Cuts Item
« Reply #49 on: December 02, 2022, 03:11:04 PM »
Unfortunately, I don't know that much about the history of Wacky Packages boxes. My gues [...]

[southern voice] You never heard of gues?
[Joe Pesci voice] Suuuure, I've heard of gues, I've just never seen a gue before.
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Offline bandaches

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Re: Common 1967 Die-Cuts Item
« Reply #50 on: December 02, 2022, 07:34:15 PM »
Yes. Unfortunately, the actual die-cut page(s) seem to have incorrect information, specifically about the sequencing of the boxes and other inconsistencies, as well. It would confuse me, if I didn't know better. Things like Tasty box came before Campy...then contradicts elsewhere. Hopefully, it'll be fixed eventually. Oh, MiiiIIIke?!?!? Calling Mr. Proofreader! lol
I think the tasty box is far less common. 
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Offline Paul_Maul

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Re: Common 1967 Die-Cuts Item
« Reply #51 on: December 02, 2022, 07:56:19 PM »
I think the tasty box is far less common.

Iím not sure which one is more common. But I have seen a few Tastys that, like mine, were part of this Topps promotion.




Offline bandaches

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Re: Common 1967 Die-Cuts Item
« Reply #52 on: December 02, 2022, 08:12:57 PM »
Iím not sure which one is more common. But I have seen a few Tastys that, like mine, were part of this Topps promotion.

(Image removed from quote.)

(Image removed from quote.)
Nice looking box!
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Offline freetoes

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Re: Common 1967 Die-Cuts Item
« Reply #53 on: December 02, 2022, 09:25:27 PM »
So will we ever know what's inside? That's the $64,000 question.

I have no idea who won this item, or what his plans are. From a research standpoint, nothing would be more exciting than going through a die-cut box, but how many full boxes might exist?

FWIW, at that price I would leave it as is. An unopened box does not guarantee that the contents are in pristine condition. And looking for the ultra-rares would be a gamble at best.

It's kind of fun to envision those PSA 9 and 10 Ratz and Crackeds, though...

Offline NationalSpittoon

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Re: Common 1967 Die-Cuts Item
« Reply #54 on: December 03, 2022, 04:13:10 AM »
I think youíd have to be stupid to open the box. Getting a Ratz or Cracked is like winning the lottery. Sure, there are winners. But there arenít millions of die-cut boxes that give a lottery-like chance to get those cards.

Offline bandaches

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Re: Common 1967 Die-Cuts Item
« Reply #55 on: December 03, 2022, 04:40:29 AM »
I think youíd have to be stupid to open the box. Getting a Ratz or Cracked is like winning the lottery. Sure, there are winners. But there arenít millions of die-cut boxes that give a lottery-like chance to get those cards.
I think grading craze will drive this box being killed, another drawback of the grading craze.
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Offline quas

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Re: Common 1967 Die-Cuts Item
« Reply #56 on: December 03, 2022, 04:56:45 AM »
I think youíd have to be stupid to open the box. Getting a Ratz or Cracked is like winning the lottery. Sure, there are winners. But there arenít millions of die-cut boxes that give a lottery-like chance to get those cards.

Yep, and this box could be like the ones I encountered in California in 1967 - No Slum Maid, no Coronation, no Muller, no Moron Salt, no Fearstone, no Alcohol Seltzer, no Campy, no Demented.
Marc

Offline Paul_Maul

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Re: Common 1967 Die-Cuts Item
« Reply #57 on: December 03, 2022, 05:10:06 AM »
I think grading craze will drive this box being killed, another drawback of the grading craze.

It is certainly a bad financial move to open it. Someone like Eric, if they happen to care more about the cards than unopened, might do it anyway. But in the overall market, the current ďunopened crazeĒ in sports cards is actually stronger than the graded card craze, so I would doubt almost anyone else would open it.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2022, 06:18:14 AM by Paul_Maul »

Offline RawGoo

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Re: Common 1967 Die-Cuts Item
« Reply #58 on: December 03, 2022, 06:47:38 AM »
It is certainly a bad financial move to open it. Someone like Eric, if they happen to care more about the cards than unopened, might do it anyway. But in the overall market, the current ďunopened crazeĒ in sports cards is actually stronger than the graded card craze, so I would doubt almost anyone else would open it.

Unless something good showed through the wrappers?

Offline faustxxx

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Re: Common 1967 Die-Cuts Item
« Reply #59 on: December 03, 2022, 07:03:58 AM »
     Many moons ago I had a chance to purchase a pack at a show with Cracked Animals on top. If I recall the price was 500.

Offline Paul_Maul

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Re: Common 1967 Die-Cuts Item
« Reply #60 on: December 03, 2022, 07:11:06 AM »
Unless something good showed through the wrappers?

With sports cards, there is a whole collecting focus on unopened packs with star cards showing through. Unlike wackys, most of it focuses on cello and rack packs, where you can clearly see the cards. So these packs are even less likely to be opened, because they command a premium as unopened packs.

A pack like this is worth much more than the graded card would be worth.




Offline RawGoo

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Re: Common 1967 Die-Cuts Item
« Reply #61 on: December 03, 2022, 08:40:23 AM »
With sports cards, there is a whole collecting focus on unopened packs with star cards showing through. Unlike wackys, most of it focuses on cello and rack packs, where you can clearly see the cards. So these packs are even less likely to be opened, because they command a premium as unopened packs.

A pack like this is worth much more than the graded card would be worth.

(Image removed from quote.)

But the Die cuts are different, right?  If a Ratz showed, maybe it is an opener?

I used sift through the cello packs at stores all the time!  Unfortunately, I opened them   :sad:

Offline Paul_Maul

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Re: Common 1967 Die-Cuts Item
« Reply #62 on: December 03, 2022, 09:07:17 AM »
But the Die cuts are different, right?  If a Ratz showed, maybe it is an opener?

I used sift through the cello packs at stores all the time!  Unfortunately, I opened them   :sad:

The Wacky Collecting Community is so small Iím not really sure. To me, an unopened pack with Ratz showing should be worth much more than a graded Ratz, but it all depends how the collecting community views it.

Offline RawGoo

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Re: Common 1967 Die-Cuts Item
« Reply #63 on: December 03, 2022, 09:39:53 AM »
The Wacky Collecting Community is so small Iím not really sure. To me, an unopened pack with Ratz showing should be worth much more than a graded Ratz, but it all depends how the collecting community views it.

Good point!  I'd be inclined to keep it as is.

Offline bandaches

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Re: Common 1967 Die-Cuts Item
« Reply #64 on: December 03, 2022, 09:56:42 AM »
It is certainly a bad financial move to open it. Someone like Eric, if they happen to care more about the cards than unopened, might do it anyway. But in the overall market, the current ďunopened crazeĒ in sports cards is actually stronger than the graded card craze, so I would doubt almost anyone else would open it.
Didn't Eric and others kill diecut packs in the past?
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Offline bandaches

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Re: Common 1967 Die-Cuts Item
« Reply #65 on: December 03, 2022, 10:01:45 AM »
The Wacky Collecting Community is so small Iím not really sure. To me, an unopened pack with Ratz showing should be worth much more than a graded Ratz, but it all depends how the collecting community views it.
The "value" of the premium title showing is that the premium title could grade very highly.  I don't believe anything else would drive the pack to be unusual valuation.  I have pupsi showing through unopened pack and Scoot no copy showing thru unopened pack.  You think their values are more than PSA8 or PSA9 level of those two titles?  I guess I should bring them to market as I would sell for more than the high PSA value of those titles for sure.
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Offline Paul_Maul

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Re: Common 1967 Die-Cuts Item
« Reply #66 on: December 03, 2022, 10:40:28 AM »
The "value" of the premium title showing is that the premium title could grade very highly.  I don't believe anything else would drive the pack to be unusual valuation.  I have pupsi showing through unopened pack and Scoot no copy showing thru unopened pack.  You think their values are more than PSA8 or PSA9 level of those two titles?  I guess I should bring them to market as I would sell for more than the high PSA value of those titles for sure.

Yes, Eric has opened die cut packs in the past.

I definitely know that a PSA Graded baseball cello pack with a major star showing is worth more than the graded card would be (unless a PSA 10 maybe). Again, I donít know with wackys because I donít even know if anyone in the hobby collects packs with key cards showing. The hobby is so small there just isnít much data to go on.

Offline bandaches

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Re: Common 1967 Die-Cuts Item
« Reply #67 on: December 03, 2022, 10:52:19 AM »
Yes, Eric has opened die cut packs in the past.

I definitely know that a PSA Graded baseball cello pack with a major star showing is worth more than the graded card would be (unless a PSA 10 maybe). Again, I donít know with wackys because I donít even know if anyone in the hobby collects packs with key cards showing. The hobby is so small there just isnít much data to go on.
agree on wacky data being too small but the baseball card mentality seems would be the same to me, the "value" of see thru unopened material has to be because of the perceived value of the graded card.  Can you site examples where the see thru card pack sold for more than the PSA9 or PSA10 value of the same card?  I am very skeptical.  BTW, Eric did NOT win this diecut box.
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Offline Paul_Maul

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Re: Common 1967 Die-Cuts Item
« Reply #68 on: December 03, 2022, 01:09:38 PM »
Iíll look for some sales Ernie, but the issue is that unopened sells at a huge premium to the contents of the pack, whether stars are showing or not. For example, a 1971 rack pack is valued at over $5K right now even with no stars showing. That is around $100 per card. Itís not based on the contents, but on the rarity of the pack itself. So with a star showing, you get a premium on top of that.

The same kind of thing is true of this die cut box. At north of $60K it is definitely selling for more than the per pack value.

Think about the hypothetical Ratz pack. If it existed, it would very likely be the only one. Isnít that more valuable than a graded Ratz, of which there are a bunch?
« Last Edit: December 03, 2022, 01:13:13 PM by Paul_Maul »

Offline bandaches

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Re: Common 1967 Die-Cuts Item
« Reply #69 on: December 04, 2022, 06:06:08 AM »
Iíll look for some sales Ernie, but the issue is that unopened sells at a huge premium to the contents of the pack, whether stars are showing or not. For example, a 1971 rack pack is valued at over $5K right now even with no stars showing. That is around $100 per card. Itís not based on the contents, but on the rarity of the pack itself. So with a star showing, you get a premium on top of that.

The same kind of thing is true of this die cut box. At north of $60K it is definitely selling for more than the per pack value.

Think about the hypothetical Ratz pack. If it existed, it would very likely be the only one. Isnít that more valuable than a graded Ratz, of which there are a bunch?
Ok this started with your saying sports packs with stars are highly sought so my response was that it is clearly driven by getting high graded star.  Now you have clarified that ALL unopened packs are selling at a premium to contents which I agree there should be some premium, total of contents in pack plus some $ amount due to being in pristine state versus being opened.  I think unopened packs will soon become more valuable because of all the knuckleheads killing packs to get high graded cards.  Inevitably the graded cards will be saturated due to all this pack killing and the desire to kill packs will subside.
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