Author Topic: Toughest Original Series Titles in High Grade  (Read 12523 times)

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Offline jleonard1967

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Re: Toughest Original Series Titles in High Grade
« Reply #35 on: February 20, 2022, 05:34:47 AM »
who is Daryl Swiggart and why does he or anyone have "pull" on how PSA grades a card?  That is extremely alarming.
There are plenty of people who spend lots of money with PSA that are invited to special events with them.  There they can discuss the hobby and things like the card I showed you. 

Offline Paul_Maul

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Re: Toughest Original Series Titles in High Grade
« Reply #36 on: February 20, 2022, 06:45:43 AM »
Ernie,

We can agree to disagree, but here’s how I view it.

Getting a wacky pack card into a pack is a multi-step process. The artwork is prepared, the sheet is prepared, the sheet is cut, the pack is assembled. Any error that causes an imperfection in the card in any one of these stages should be treated the same way from a grading perspective. The sheet can have errors in layout, it can be cut improperly. The corners of a card could be dinged inserting it into the pack. These are all errors that are part of the manufacturing process, and should all be treated equally, which is to say the card should be downgraded by PSA for any manufacturing error that causes an imperfection.

Offline bandaches

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Re: Toughest Original Series Titles in High Grade
« Reply #37 on: February 20, 2022, 06:51:46 AM »
There are plenty of people who spend lots of money with PSA that are invited to special events with them.  There they can discuss the hobby and things like the card I showed you.
that seems to seal the deal that PSA is a sham!  Discussing the hobby is one thing but someone who spends a lot of money dictating how a card is graded just threw out the integrity of the grading process.
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Offline bandaches

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Re: Toughest Original Series Titles in High Grade
« Reply #38 on: February 20, 2022, 06:57:03 AM »
Ernie,

We can agree to disagree, but here’s how I view it.

Getting a wacky pack card into a pack is a multi-step process. The artwork is prepared, the sheet is prepared, the sheet is cut, the pack is assembled. Any error that causes an imperfection in the card in any one of these stages should be treated the same way from a grading perspective. The sheet can have errors in layout, it can be cut improperly. The corners of a card could be dinged inserting it into the pack. These are all errors that are part of the manufacturing process, and should all be treated equally, which is to say the card should be downgraded by PSA for any manufacturing error that causes an imperfection.
....but you just claimed a perfectly manufactured card according to its own specifications can result in a non perfect grade in regards to clammy.  Which is it?  an error in the manufacturing process is a variation in the currency world and its desirability is measured by the volume of the error versus the correction.  I don't think I have ever seen a 1955 double die penny downgraded because it is a double die.  I get it, the card grading system is different and much more haphazard as we have seen evidenced in this dialogue where you have declared a certain card can be manufactured perfectly according to specifications and never touched by human hands can't be graded as perfect.
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Offline Paul_Maul

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Re: Toughest Original Series Titles in High Grade
« Reply #39 on: February 20, 2022, 07:44:14 AM »
....but you just claimed a perfectly manufactured card according to its own specifications can result in a non perfect grade in regards to clammy.  Which is it?  an error in the manufacturing process is a variation in the currency world and its desirability is measured by the volume of the error versus the correction.  I don't think I have ever seen a 1955 double die penny downgraded because it is a double die.  I get it, the card grading system is different and much more haphazard as we have seen evidenced in this dialogue where you have declared a certain card can be manufactured perfectly according to specifications and never touched by human hands can't be graded as perfect.

No, the Clammy is not a perfect card according to its specifications. There is a manufacturing error in laying out the sheet that results in an ugly card most of the time. It’s a layout error rather than a cutting error, but it is an error nonetheless. What makes a miscut card undesirable is that it’s ugly. The Clammy is just as ugly, even though that ugliness has a different root cause. It should still be given the same grade as a miscut card because it is equally ugly and undesirable.

As for errors being desirable to collectors, that’s really for the marketplace to decide. eBay sellers are always trying to convince buyers they should value severely miscut junk, more power to them for trying.

Offline bandaches

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Re: Toughest Original Series Titles in High Grade
« Reply #40 on: February 20, 2022, 07:56:04 AM »
No, the Clammy is not a perfect card according to its specifications. There is a manufacturing error in laying out the sheet that results in an ugly card most of the time. It’s a layout error rather than a cutting error, but it is an error nonetheless. What makes a miscut card undesirable is that it’s ugly. The Clammy is just as ugly, even though that ugliness has a different root cause. It should still be given the same grade as a miscut card because it is equally ugly and undesirable.

As for errors being desirable to collectors, that’s really for the marketplace to decide. eBay sellers are always trying to convince buyers they should value severely miscut junk, more power to them for trying.
Once a blueprint(layout) is set, that is the specification.  Again, just because you don't like the layout doesn't mean it is not perfect just because it doesn't align with your need for eye appeal. For you grading is not about perfection, it is about eye appeal, I think have stated that perhaps 100 times throughout the various discussions.  I hold firm in my assertion that because your approach results in certain stickers not possibly having a perfect rating no matter what means your approach is flawed.  Quite honestly, PSA10s being handed out like candy is a sham that of course will soon wipe out all PSA values.  Truly MINT means from manufacturing process straight to preservation.  I think even finger prints on the surface should preclude an item from being truly MINT!
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Offline NationalSpittoon

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Re: Toughest Original Series Titles in High Grade
« Reply #41 on: February 20, 2022, 08:16:02 AM »
I think Dave and I buy more strictly on eye appeal in juxtaposition with grade. Grading is a function of perfection though. A perfectly centered Clammy is not perfect for Baby Runt’s border is present - making it miscut. Seems pretty simple. The guidelines for grading miscuts should not change because of one exception out of the entire trading card world (even though there are likely more).

Oh, and also, PSA 10’s are not being handed out like candy. Not sure where you got that inclination however yes I agree PSA does misgrade a lot of cards. That is to be expected considering Wacky Packs are not their strong suit.

Offline Paul_Maul

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Re: Toughest Original Series Titles in High Grade
« Reply #42 on: February 20, 2022, 08:35:34 AM »
What’s happening right now with sports cards is that hedge funds are buying PSA 10s as investments, driving prices to ridiculous, unsustainable levels. Just last night, a PSA 10 1973 Tom Seaver sold for $67,000. Yes, 1973. To put that in perspective, I paid $125 for my PSA 9 in 2018. Here are the two cards. Clearly, my 9 is nicer, and paying $67,000 for this diamond cut, mediocre card with the expectation of appreciation is insane.

So there is definitely something broken in this system.




Offline bandaches

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Re: Toughest Original Series Titles in High Grade
« Reply #43 on: February 20, 2022, 08:42:26 AM »
I think Dave and I buy more strictly on eye appeal in juxtaposition with grade. Grading is a function of perfection though. A perfectly centered Clammy is not perfect for Baby Runt’s border is present - making it miscut. Seems pretty simple. The guidelines for grading miscuts should not change because of one exception out of the entire trading card world (even though there are likely more).

Oh, and also, PSA 10’s are not being handed out like candy. Not sure where you got that inclination however yes I agree PSA does misgrade a lot of cards. That is to be expected considering Wacky Packs are not their strong suit.
You continue to insist perfectly centered as determined by eye appeal should determine grade vs perfection from a manufacturing attempt point of view so that does explain your misperception this is "pretty simple".  "miscut" means an aberration from planned cutting yet you decided it simply means bad eye appeal.   You are in for a rude awakening on the PSA10s, if people who spend "money" can sway PSA grades, the money needs people like you to keep buying up their PSA8s and PSA9s as they will their way to creating and owning PSA10s.  You are sorely under-estimating how terrible it is that someone who spends money with PSA can influence any grade at any time.
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Offline bandaches

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Re: Toughest Original Series Titles in High Grade
« Reply #44 on: February 20, 2022, 08:50:56 AM »
What’s happening right now with sports cards is that hedge funds are buying PSA 10s as investments, driving prices to ridiculous, unsustainable levels. Just last night, a PSA 10 1973 Tom Seaver sold for $67,000. Yes, 1973. To put that in perspective, I paid $125 for my PSA 9 in 2018. Here are the two cards. Clearly, my 9 is nicer, and paying $67,000 for this diamond cut, mediocre card with the expectation of appreciation is insane.

So there is definitely something broken in this system.

(Image removed from quote.)

(Image removed from quote.)
is your scan correct?  Your card looks like top is wider than bottom.  Yes, the system is broken because you have no way to know if money willed that PSA10 is the rich's mans game of manipulation.
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Offline Paul_Maul

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Re: Toughest Original Series Titles in High Grade
« Reply #45 on: February 20, 2022, 08:58:49 AM »
is your scan correct?  Your card looks like top is wider than bottom.  Yes, the system is broken because you have no way to know if money willed that PSA10 is the rich's mans game of manipulation.

That’s just the result of the card not laying completely flat, it is cut properly and normally sized both top and bottom. And this 10 was originally graded fifteen years ago and recently reholdered, it would not be given a 10 if graded today as it is mediocre. Inconsistent grading across the years that PSA then has to stand behind is yet another of their problems.

Offline NationalSpittoon

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Re: Toughest Original Series Titles in High Grade
« Reply #46 on: February 20, 2022, 09:04:28 AM »
You continue to insist perfectly centered as determined by eye appeal should determine grade vs perfection from a manufacturing attempt point of view so that does explain your misperception this is "pretty simple".  "miscut" means an aberration from planned cutting yet you decided it simply means bad eye appeal.   You are in for a rude awakening on the PSA10s, if people who spend "money" can sway PSA grades, the money needs people like you to keep buying up their PSA8s and PSA9s as they will their way to creating and owning PSA10s.  You are sorely under-estimating how terrible it is that someone who spends money with PSA can influence any grade at any time.

Perfect centering is *not* eye appeal. You can measure centering. Miscut in this case is *not* eye appeal. The border of another card is present, making it miscut. I understand some hobbies exist where people will “create” PSA 10’s but I simply do not see that happening with Wackys. And, guess what? I don’t need the highest grade. The more 10’s, the cheaper my 8’s and 9’s!

Offline bandaches

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Re: Toughest Original Series Titles in High Grade
« Reply #47 on: February 20, 2022, 09:55:04 AM »
Perfect centering is *not* eye appeal. You can measure centering. Miscut in this case is *not* eye appeal. The border of another card is present, making it miscut. I understand some hobbies exist where people will “create” PSA 10’s but I simply do not see that happening with Wackys. And, guess what? I don’t need the highest grade. The more 10’s, the cheaper my 8’s and 9’s!
yes, you are almost there.....that PSA9 Clammy IS MISCUT despite it's borders being "perfectly centered" for proper eye appeal.  The PERFECT clammy with PERFECT cut doesnt meet your eye appeal but that doesnt mean it is lower grade when PERFECTLY cut per manufacturing specifications.  Sorry, your claim that there can be no version of the card that is PSA10 just opens the door for card grading to be more erratic than it already is.
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Offline NationalSpittoon

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Re: Toughest Original Series Titles in High Grade
« Reply #48 on: February 20, 2022, 01:52:32 PM »
I am simply lost. I have repeated that the Clammy issue is not about my eye appeal. Yes, I don’t want one that has part of the Baby Runt border. That doesn’t change the fact that there is no legitimate way to obtain it in perfect condition at any given moment.

Should we not penalize toning? The manufacturer did choose the paper stock after all!

Offline bandaches

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Re: Toughest Original Series Titles in High Grade
« Reply #49 on: February 21, 2022, 11:04:09 AM »
I am simply lost. I have repeated that the Clammy issue is not about my eye appeal. Yes, I don’t want one that has part of the Baby Runt border. That doesn’t change the fact that there is no legitimate way to obtain it in perfect condition at any given moment.

Should we not penalize toning? The manufacturer did choose the paper stock after all!
Keep repeating your statement that it's impossible to get that title in perfect condition maybe at some point you will realizes that's ridiculous every single title can be perfect you just have the wrong interpretation of perfect.
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Offline NationalSpittoon

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Re: Toughest Original Series Titles in High Grade
« Reply #50 on: February 21, 2022, 04:04:32 PM »
Well considering we agree that perfect centering proliferates miscut on Clammy, and miscut proliferates imperfection, we’ll agree to disagree.

Offline mikecho

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Re: Toughest Original Series Titles in High Grade
« Reply #51 on: February 21, 2022, 07:27:04 PM »
but my other brother "Dariel"  told me.....
Is that supposed to be "Darrell" or "Daryl" instead of "Dariel"?

Offline jleonard1967

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Re: Toughest Original Series Titles in High Grade
« Reply #52 on: February 21, 2022, 09:13:26 PM »
it is just Darrell, no other spellings

Offline mikecho

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Re: Toughest Original Series Titles in High Grade
« Reply #53 on: February 21, 2022, 10:05:36 PM »
it is just Darrell, no other spellings
Yeah, I thought so. Thanks!

So,you'll have to fix on your post. If you please, sir...
« Last Edit: February 21, 2022, 10:07:33 PM by mikecho »

Offline bandaches

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Re: Toughest Original Series Titles in High Grade
« Reply #54 on: February 22, 2022, 07:56:39 AM »
Well considering we agree that perfect centering proliferates miscut on Clammy, and miscut proliferates imperfection, we’ll agree to disagree.
I never agreed that perfect centering is a miscut Crammy...I have consistently stated perfect centering is per manufacturing specifications...that irks you because that "perfect centering" on Crammy lacks the "eye appeal centering" you require.  So in summary, I am stating there is a perfect Crammy card that can and should be graded PSA10, it will lack your desired eye appeal centering but it will be perfectly centered per manufacturing specifications.  You have declared no such perfect PSA10 crammy card exists under any circumstances.  So yes, given that, we have no choice to agree to disagree.  How many other cards have you declared can't possibly under any circumstances exist as PSA10?
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Offline Fanatical_and_Sickly

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Re: Toughest Original Series Titles in High Grade
« Reply #55 on: February 22, 2022, 08:06:42 AM »
I never agreed that perfect centering is a miscut Crammy...I have consistently stated perfect centering is per manufacturing specifications...that irks you because that "perfect centering" on Crammy lacks the "eye appeal centering" you require.  So in summary, I am stating there is a perfect Crammy card that can and should be graded PSA10, it will lack your desired eye appeal centering but it will be perfectly centered per manufacturing specifications.  You have declared no such perfect PSA10 crammy card exists under any circumstances.  So yes, given that, we have no choice to agree to disagree.  How many other cards have you declared can't possibly under any circumstances exist as PSA10?
Totally agree with you on this.
If the Topps layout artist placed Clammy (or whatever title) onto the sheet layout without perfect centering, then a true cut card is one with that exact same imperfect centering.
If for example that Clammy was set with 30/70 alignment, then a real PSA10 is one with that exact same 30/70.
Constraining PSA10 to only be a 50/50 card is forcing these grossly miscut cards to be the only ones with a high grade, when all those supposed perfect cards should really be marked OC or downgraded.

Offline bandaches

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Re: Toughest Original Series Titles in High Grade
« Reply #56 on: February 22, 2022, 02:42:52 PM »
Totally agree with you on this.
If the Topps layout artist placed Clammy (or whatever title) onto the sheet layout without perfect centering, then a true cut card is one with that exact same imperfect centering.
If for example that Clammy was set with 30/70 alignment, then a real PSA10 is one with that exact same 30/70.
Constraining PSA10 to only be a 50/50 card is forcing these grossly miscut cards to be the only ones with a high grade, when all those supposed perfect cards should really be marked OC or downgraded.
Excellent follow up example, worse yet someone with money influenced PSA to declare the miscut Clammy is the better Clammy so the whole PSA grading process took another hit on top of its many other flaws.
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Offline Paul_Maul

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Re: Toughest Original Series Titles in High Grade
« Reply #57 on: February 22, 2022, 03:04:29 PM »
Totally agree with you on this.
If the Topps layout artist placed Clammy (or whatever title) onto the sheet layout without perfect centering, then a true cut card is one with that exact same imperfect centering.
If for example that Clammy was set with 30/70 alignment, then a real PSA10 is one with that exact same 30/70.
Constraining PSA10 to only be a 50/50 card is forcing these grossly miscut cards to be the only ones with a high grade, when all those supposed perfect cards should really be marked OC or downgraded.

It all depends on what you believe the purpose of grading to be. I believe it to be an attempt to quantify the desirability of a card to collectors compared to all other examples of the card. I don’t believe it to be an attempt to rate how closely a card comes to being perfectly cut from a sheet. A Clammy with part of another sticker on it is not likely to be highly rated by most collectors in terms of desirability. As a result, I don’t believe it deserves a high grade. I don’t believe any Clammy should be graded a 10, because that grade, for lack of a better term, should represent the Clammy of my dreams, a card which just can’t exist.

Let’s have a poll. How many people would rather have a noticeably OC 8-Lives (because it is perfectly cut based on sheet placement) than a “miscut” 8-Lives that appears perfectly centered? The grade should reflect the answer to that question.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2022, 03:07:12 PM by Paul_Maul »

Offline jleonard1967

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Re: Toughest Original Series Titles in High Grade
« Reply #58 on: February 22, 2022, 03:23:32 PM »
No one with money influenced PSA to make the change.  Every year there is an invitation sent out to their best customers (people who use their service a lot)it is to talk about the current industry.  Yes they (the invitees)  can give their opinions on what should be done, however the final decision rests with PSA.  There is no collusion or nefarious things going on.  We need to pull that out of our argument.  Stating something like that is just trying to influence the argument with a personal bias.  Also I will go on record as saying I would rather have the perfectly centered 8lives but I do know that is actually an OC card according to the card cut placement.  However PSA does have the limits of the centering to get a grade and on the 8-lives you are not getting another card on it if it is miscut  and has a more perfect centering like my clammy.  I use PSA to determine a value of a grade, If I use them for some grades I like I have to use them for all.  I can not pick and choose and then stand behind or against them.  Your either all in or completely out.  Can't be sort of pregnant. 

Offline bandaches

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Re: Toughest Original Series Titles in High Grade
« Reply #59 on: February 22, 2022, 05:22:53 PM »
No one with money influenced PSA to make the change.  Every year there is an invitation sent out to their best customers (people who use their service a lot)it is to talk about the current industry.  Yes they (the invitees)  can give their opinions on what should be done, however the final decision rests with PSA.  There is no collusion or nefarious things going on.  We need to pull that out of our argument.  Stating something like that is just trying to influence the argument with a personal bias.  Also I will go on record as saying I would rather have the perfectly centered 8lives but I do know that is actually an OC card according to the card cut placement.  However PSA does have the limits of the centering to get a grade and on the 8-lives you are not getting another card on it if it is miscut  and has a more perfect centering like my clammy.  I use PSA to determine a value of a grade, If I use them for some grades I like I have to use them for all.  I can not pick and choose and then stand behind or against them.  Your either all in or completely out.  Can't be sort of pregnant.
A declaration was made that "daryl" convinced PSA that the "miscut" clammy shouldn't have a qualifier nor grade drop due to being miscut.  People who use their service enough to be invited to this type of session are likely to have money, we can debate that but I am pretty sure I am right....picking a few high spending collectors to determine guidance on graded hardly is a model to please the masses....
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Offline bandaches

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Re: Toughest Original Series Titles in High Grade
« Reply #60 on: February 22, 2022, 05:26:58 PM »
It all depends on what you believe the purpose of grading to be. I believe it to be an attempt to quantify the desirability of a card to collectors compared to all other examples of the card. I don’t believe it to be an attempt to rate how closely a card comes to being perfectly cut from a sheet. A Clammy with part of another sticker on it is not likely to be highly rated by most collectors in terms of desirability. As a result, I don’t believe it deserves a high grade. I don’t believe any Clammy should be graded a 10, because that grade, for lack of a better term, should represent the Clammy of my dreams, a card which just can’t exist.

Let’s have a poll. How many people would rather have a noticeably OC 8-Lives (because it is perfectly cut based on sheet placement) than a “miscut” 8-Lives that appears perfectly centered? The grade should reflect the answer to that question.
No, "Grading is assessing the quality and condition of a trading card using PSA's 10-point grading scale"  It is exactly what the word means, to measure condition of the item.  Desirability is driven by many other factors and PSA7s were once "desired" and now they are not, soon PSA8s will saturate the market and fall into the same fate.  Their falling desirability has nothing to do with the condition of the card.  Your survey about personal preference has nothing to do with the grade of a card.  I prefer PSA10 Bum over PSA10 Bon Ami, both are perfect cards.....desirability has nothing to do with it.
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Offline Paul_Maul

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Re: Toughest Original Series Titles in High Grade
« Reply #61 on: February 22, 2022, 05:48:39 PM »
No, "Grading is assessing the quality and condition of a trading card using PSA's 10-point grading scale"  It is exactly what the word means, to measure condition of the item.  Desirability is driven by many other factors and PSA7s were once "desired" and now they are not, soon PSA8s will saturate the market and fall into the same fate.  Their falling desirability has nothing to do with the condition of the card.  Your survey about personal preference has nothing to do with the grade of a card.  I prefer PSA10 Bum over PSA10 Bon Ami, both are perfect cards.....desirability has nothing to do with it.

I said desirability of the card compared to all other examples of that card, not other cards.

And whether you like it or not, grading of collectibles has always been about desirability and trying to quantify it. Why would higher grades bring more money if the card were not perceived as more desirable?

Offline Fanatical_and_Sickly

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Re: Toughest Original Series Titles in High Grade
« Reply #62 on: February 22, 2022, 06:02:16 PM »
Let’s have a poll. How many people would rather have a noticeably OC 8-Lives (because it is perfectly cut based on sheet placement) than a “miscut” 8-Lives that appears perfectly centered? The grade should reflect the answer to that question.
The grade absolutely should not reflect the answer to that question.
I'm surprised you would even want high grades to be based purely on subjective measures and not objective ones.
Much like the Avengers movie may have been the most popular in their years, they cleary did not make the cuts in the category of Best Picture of the Year either release.
But they did make the most money for their years...
- which would allude to PSA grading really being all about the money (for themselves and for submitters), and the grading is not about being technically right.
And that is absolutely true in the case of the 8-Lives, as the PSA MC designator should apply, per their own definition, to "Any and all cards that exhibit an atypical cut for the issue". A ample bordered 8-Lives is definitely an atypical cut, and should be called out for that with an MC.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2022, 06:10:20 PM by Fanatical_and_Sickly »

Offline Fanatical_and_Sickly

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Re: Toughest Original Series Titles in High Grade
« Reply #63 on: February 22, 2022, 06:05:18 PM »
  However PSA does have the limits of the centering to get a grade and on the 8-lives you are not getting another card on it if it is miscut  and has a more perfect centering like my clammy.
but you absolutely *are* getting another card on that 8-Lives. It just happens to be white in color.

Offline bandaches

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Re: Toughest Original Series Titles in High Grade
« Reply #64 on: February 22, 2022, 07:09:21 PM »
I said desirability of the card compared to all other examples of that card, not other cards.

And whether you like it or not, grading of collectibles has always been about desirability and trying to quantify it. Why would higher grades bring more money if the card were not perceived as more desirable?
Your cause and effect are completely backwards.  The card is not desirable first and then gets a grade based on that.  It gets a grade and desirability is based on the grade.....then of course money follows desirability and hence my analogy is perfect and applies to all scenarios not just limited to selections of one card.
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Offline bandaches

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Re: Toughest Original Series Titles in High Grade
« Reply #65 on: February 22, 2022, 07:13:22 PM »
The grade absolutely should not reflect the answer to that question.
I'm surprised you would even want high grades to be based purely on subjective measures and not objective ones.
Much like the Avengers movie may have been the most popular in their years, they cleary did not make the cuts in the category of Best Picture of the Year either release.
But they did make the most money for their years...
- which would allude to PSA grading really being all about the money (for themselves and for submitters), and the grading is not about being technically right.
And that is absolutely true in the case of the 8-Lives, as the PSA MC designator should apply, per their own definition, to "Any and all cards that exhibit an atypical cut for the issue". A ample bordered 8-Lives is definitely an atypical cut, and should be called out for that with an MC.
at least out of this is the admission that money, value and desirability is a key part of the desire to grade cards.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2022, 08:51:46 PM by bandaches »
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Offline bandaches

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Re: Toughest Original Series Titles in High Grade
« Reply #66 on: February 22, 2022, 07:14:32 PM »
but you absolutely *are* getting another card on that 8-Lives. It just happens to be white in color.
EXACTLY!!!
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Offline Paul_Maul

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Re: Toughest Original Series Titles in High Grade
« Reply #67 on: February 23, 2022, 06:46:33 AM »
EXACTLY!!!

Exactly, and I and most of those looking for nice cards don’t care as long as the card looks nice. The Clammy looks like crap. Maybe you guys don’t appreciate the importance of that distinction because you don’t collect and are not interested in high grade cards.

Offline Paul_Maul

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Re: Toughest Original Series Titles in High Grade
« Reply #68 on: February 23, 2022, 06:49:35 AM »
Your cause and effect are completely backwards.  The card is not desirable first and then gets a grade based on that.  It gets a grade and desirability is based on the grade.....then of course money follows desirability and hence my analogy is perfect and applies to all scenarios not just limited to selections of one card.

Why has grading been used in all collectible hobbies going back centuries? Because a way of quantifying condition  and eye appeal based desirability was needed. That is all a grading system is. Before anyone ever saw an uncut sheet, why would they care whether 8-Lives had a perfect sheet cut? This is getting silly.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2022, 06:52:50 AM by Paul_Maul »

Offline bandaches

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Re: Toughest Original Series Titles in High Grade
« Reply #69 on: February 23, 2022, 07:05:42 AM »
Exactly, and I and most of those looking for nice cards don’t care as long as the card looks nice. The Clammy looks like crap. Maybe you guys don’t appreciate the importance of that distinction because you don’t collect and are not interested in high grade cards.
Which crammy looks like crap?  The PSA9 miscut which Patrick and I both said should have the qualifier?
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