Author Topic: World Of Wackies...  (Read 21842 times)

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Offline wackyman

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    • World Of Wackies
Re: World Of Wackies...
« Reply #35 on: March 23, 2010, 08:40:32 PM »
Last I checked, WOW was rid of greg's content after his first day of whining about it.  greg bought the sister URLs AFTER WOW was rid of his content as it seems as usual, greg is battling a war that only exists in his mind.....

Correct, right now W.O.W ONLY features what Greg's site does NOT have,  Oldschool, the 86 'test' series and a slew of odds & ends from the gallery thanks to Paul :)

I have ANS1 - ANS6 ready to go up, but I wanted to hold off on that until I got a few new features coded and tested first (kind of takes higher priority then stuff you can find other places)

I'm to the point where I don't think I want any of the OS stuff on the site for now,  I'll stick to the new stuff and the stuff that was lacking on Greg's site.

we have bigger plans for W.O.W. and we need to focus on that and not worry about anyone whining about 'stealing their content' and I fear that no matter where I get any OS stuff from it will trigger someone to come starting shiz and we just don't have time for that!

And your 100% right Ernie, and IF I had a cookie I'd give it to you as a prize lol

-Jay-

Offline wackyman

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    • World Of Wackies
Re: World Of Wackies...
« Reply #36 on: March 23, 2010, 08:44:08 PM »
Can't resist sticking my hands in this tar baby:

Greg slams Brad and Jay for "competing" with him, as though competition were bad, and beneath Greg. If that were true, he wouldn't have purchased that domain name. It does Greg no good except that it might do Jay some harm, however small.

("Queeg"!)

100% correct, EXCEPT buying that domain did ZERO harm (minus the $10.00 he lost by buying it lol)  I thought long and hard before I snagged the version I used, and as I said before I had good reasons behind getting the spelling i did get.

I also got other domains that will come into play as W.O.W grows and new features are added,   features that will need their own domain name BUT will be tied back directly to W.O.W.

Think of W.O.W. as the "hub" of all the other sites that will encompass it ;)

I wish I could spill some of the upcoming beans, but until all the ducks are in a row AND papers have gone back and forth I gotta keep my mouth shut :(

-Jay- 

Bum_and_Mabel

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Re: World Of Wackies...
« Reply #37 on: March 23, 2010, 08:53:11 PM »
100% correct, EXCEPT buying that domain did ZERO harm (minus the $10.00 he lost by buying it lol)  ...
Just to be clear: I was referring to Greg's apparent intentions, not their effects. Glad to hear his ploy was a swing and a miss.

Offline wackyman

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    • World Of Wackies
Re: World Of Wackies...
« Reply #38 on: March 23, 2010, 08:54:28 PM »
Just to be clear: I was referring to Greg's apparent intentions, not their effects. Glad to hear his ploy was a swing and a miss.

I understood :)

-Jay-

Re: World Of Wackies...
« Reply #39 on: March 23, 2010, 09:12:31 PM »
Can't resist sticking my hands in this tar baby:

Greg slams Brad and Jay for "competing" with him, as though competition were bad, and beneath Greg. If that were true, he wouldn't have purchased that domain name. It does Greg no good except that it might do Jay some harm, however small.

("Queeg"!)
no, he slammed them for using his images on a competing site. He doesn't care about competing sites, just the use of his images on them.

Offline Plan 9

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Re: World Of Wackies...
« Reply #40 on: March 23, 2010, 09:23:43 PM »
Last I checked, WOW was rid of greg's content after his first day of whining about it.  greg bought the sister URLs AFTER WOW was rid of his content as it seems as usual, greg is battling a war that only exists in his mind.....
The only reason I brought it up again is because we've still got this guy in our circle who can't admit he did something ethically perverse. Yes, he removed the stuff from his site so he knows he did something wrong. But instead of admitting it he tries to label anyone who speaks up as a Greg worshipper. If he even had a clue who's who around here he wouldn't be so quick to make such naive statements. I'm speaking up in support of right and wrong. Until Jay admits what he did was ethically wrong he is still the same character he was yesterday, last month and last year. I don't think anybody anywhere who put so much effort into building a site like Greg's would ever agree to let some stranger come along and steal it under the pretense of "reconstruction". Now Jay wants to leave out the original series stuff. Why? Because he can't accomplish it without the intense efforts that Greg put into it or let someone else hand it to him on a silver platter. It's that effort that Jay has no respect for and tried to steal. He tries to cloud the issue with arguments about who owns the images when it's clear to any honest person that it's a diversion from the real crime. I'm curious to know what other sites this guy built. I'll be we could then track down the site he swiped the material from. Or has he ever even built a site before World of Wackiiiieees?

Bum_and_Mabel

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Re: World Of Wackies...
« Reply #41 on: March 23, 2010, 09:33:26 PM »
no, he slammed them for using his images on a competing site. He doesn't care about competing sites, just the use of his images on them.
I thought perhaps I should quote the exact passage I was referring to, should anyone counter that I was misrepresenting the facts. (I recalled this passage, its gist anyway, because it struck me as hypocritical.) It will take me a while to find the passage, but if you like, I can PM it to you, keeping in mind that your reading and mine could still differ. Perhaps we can leave it at, "Greg said something I interpreted such-and-such way, and then did such-and-such"?

Also: was Brad, as you say, involved in using Greg's images on another site? Honestly, I didn't think he was, but maybe I don't have the facts.

Also: I'm not defending anyone using Greg's images for their own site. That in itself is pretty low in my book. I appreciate the time he put into the scanning and the Photoshopping.

...

EDIT: Might as well get this over with:

char_boy: "They've taken this as some kind of petty competition, which shows what motivates them.  If I had tried to compete with these people it would have been child's play, obviously, but I sent everybody to brat's forum." (http://wackypackages.org/forum/messages.php?mode=&a=3&t=11&mn=26&stealth=)

My point was that Greg's buying www.worldofwackys.com struck me squarely as the sort of "petty competition" he claims he's not engaging in. "Petty," because it does him no real good except as a potential impediment to someone else. Naturally, some might disagree with that conclusion, but I didn't pull it out of thin air. (It seems silly to belabor the point, as this is but one instance of rancorous behavior among many, on both sides, so I will belabor it no further.)
« Last Edit: March 23, 2010, 11:03:38 PM by Bum_and_Mabel »

Offline wackyman

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    • World Of Wackies
Re: World Of Wackies...
« Reply #42 on: March 23, 2010, 09:38:22 PM »
The only reason I brought it up again is because we've still got this guy in our circle who can't admit he did something ethically perverse. Yes, he removed the stuff from his site so he knows he did something wrong. But instead of admitting it he tries to label anyone who speaks up as a Greg worshipper. If he even had a clue who's who around here he wouldn't be so quick to make such naive statements. I'm speaking up in support of right and wrong. Until Jay admits what he did was ethically wrong he is still the same character he was yesterday, last month and last year. I don't think anybody anywhere who put so much effort into building a site like Greg's would ever agree to let some stranger come along and steal it under the pretense of "reconstruction". Now Jay wants to leave out the original series stuff. Why? Because he can't accomplish it without the intense efforts that Greg put into it or let someone else hand it to him on a silver platter. It's that effort that Jay has no respect for and tried to steal. He tries to cloud the issue with arguments about who owns the images when it's clear to any honest person that it's a diversion from the real crime. I'm curious to know what other sites this guy built. I'll be we could then track down the site he swiped the material from. Or has he ever even built a site before World of Wackiiiieees?

wow, you are WAY off there dude,  I don't even know whyI waste time trying to defend myself for  really nothing,  but...

I've not labeled ANYONE as anything,  not in public NOR in private,  saying that I do, did whatever, that is an outright LIE,  and it's sad that anyone has to lie over such stupid stuff :(

The reason I choose to omit the OS right now is because as I said.. I don't have time to run 'damage control'  when Greg decides that it's  STILL 'his images' he already did it with my first runs of ANS,  he claimed I removed all his 'shadows'  he even said it, AS I WAS TYPING THAT HE WOULD PULL THAT.

If I don't have stuff on W.O.W. that Greg has, I remove 100% of ANY CLAIM / FIGHTS from him

I have had quite a few people offer me  scans from the OS but I've told them 'thanks, but lets hold off for now'  I have much bigger plans for W.O.W.  and not having any of the OS on the site will not make one bit of difference.

Last but not least, Greg had no claims,  I pulled those images NOT because I was wrong, but because I did not nor do I have the time to deal  with someone like Greg,  When W.O.W. is completed  and up and running it will be used as a demo site for Topps and other companies, featuring stuff that is not available anywhere else, and it will give those companies a chance to see the software and features in action, and it will give the W.O.W. community some nifty things to play with.

As for other site's I've built, I really can't count them,  over the past 10+ years I've built sites and graphics for ford, Nissan, Holiday Inn, record companies, NPO's and many more.  I'm not a thief, never have been never will be,  and I would ask only what I've stated publicly both here and on Greg's forum.....

Don't listen to Greg,   don't listen to me,  do your own research, and see exactly WHO owns any and all images featuring  wacky packages, no matter what anyone does to the image it STILL is owned 100% by TOPPS and TOPPS ALONE.....

IF those full box photos that Greg claimed "I have determined to be my own creations" were true WHY did he get stopped from selling the poster he made with those boxes,  CLEARLY if Greg indeed owned OR could claim ownership to those images he could have sold them.

Common sense people,  sheep belong in the meadow NOT online.

-Jay-

Re: World Of Wackies...
« Reply #43 on: March 23, 2010, 09:39:39 PM »
I thought perhaps I should quote the exact passage I was referring to, should anyone counter that I was misrepresenting the facts. (I recalled this passage, its gist anyway, because it struck me as hypocritical.) It will take me a while to find the passage, but if you like, I can PM it to you, keeping in mind that your reading and mine may could still differ. Perhaps we can leave it at, "Greg said something I interpreted such-and-such way, and then did such-and-such"?

Also: was Brad, as you say, involved in using Greg's images on another site? Honestly, I didn't think he was, but maybe I don't have the facts.
I may not have read that passage you're referring to, as I'm still catching up on the threads. 2 weeks behind, and still working to read it all. If you run across it, you can PM it. No big deal though.

and you're right. you wrote Brad and Jay, and I automatically used "them" in response, but really just meant to refer to Jay.

Offline Duznt

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Re: World Of Wackies...
« Reply #44 on: March 23, 2010, 09:42:14 PM »
He doesn't care about competing sites, just the use of his images on them.

He cared enough to register the other WOW domain.

Offline Plan 9

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Re: World Of Wackies...
« Reply #45 on: March 23, 2010, 10:25:29 PM »
wow, you are WAY off there dude,  I don't even know whyI waste time trying to defend myself for  really nothing,  but...

I've not labeled ANYONE as anything,  not in public NOR in private,  saying that I do, did whatever, that is an outright LIE,  and it's sad that anyone has to lie over such stupid stuff :(

The reason I choose to omit the OS right now is because as I said.. I don't have time to run 'damage control'  when Greg decides that it's  STILL 'his images' he already did it with my first runs of ANS,  he claimed I removed all his 'shadows'  he even said it, AS I WAS TYPING THAT HE WOULD PULL THAT.

If I don't have stuff on W.O.W. that Greg has, I remove 100% of ANY CLAIM / FIGHTS from him

I have had quite a few people offer me  scans from the OS but I've told them 'thanks, but lets hold off for now'  I have much bigger plans for W.O.W.  and not having any of the OS on the site will not make one bit of difference.

Last but not least, Greg had no claims,  I pulled those images NOT because I was wrong, but because I did not nor do I have the time to deal  with someone like Greg,  When W.O.W. is completed  and up and running it will be used as a demo site for Topps and other companies, featuring stuff that is not available anywhere else, and it will give those companies a chance to see the software and features in action, and it will give the W.O.W. community some nifty things to play with.

As for other site's I've built, I really can't count them,  over the past 10+ years I've built sites and graphics for ford, Nissan, Holiday Inn, record companies, NPO's and many more.  I'm not a thief, never have been never will be,  and I would ask only what I've stated publicly both here and on Greg's forum.....

Don't listen to Greg,   don't listen to me,  do your own research, and see exactly WHO owns any and all images featuring  wacky packages, no matter what anyone does to the image it STILL is owned 100% by TOPPS and TOPPS ALONE.....

IF those full box photos that Greg claimed "I have determined to be my own creations" were true WHY did he get stopped from selling the poster he made with those boxes,  CLEARLY if Greg indeed owned OR could claim ownership to those images he could have sold them.

Common sense people,  sheep belong in the meadow NOT online.

-Jay-

There you go again trumpeting your point about the legality of the images. Nobody is bringing that up but you. The legalities are completely irrelevant. You are acting completely blind to the EFFORTS you attempted to STEAL. Then you end your post with another comment about us being sheep after you just denied making such comments.

Offline wackyman

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Re: World Of Wackies...
« Reply #46 on: March 23, 2010, 10:45:27 PM »
There you go again trumpeting your point about the legality of the images. Nobody is bringing that up but you. The legalities are completely irrelevant. You are acting completely blind to the EFFORTS you attempted to STEAL. Then you end your post with another comment about us being sheep after you just denied making such comments.

One can not 'steal'  something that does not belong to the person who claims to have been 'stolen' from.

THAT is why I keep bringing up the actual ownership issue.

And I might just be tired,or just  getting completely tired of  this entire issue but since when did the word 'sheep' mean "greg worshiper" ?  cause you claim I keep labeling everyone who speaks against me "greg worshipers"

I used the term Sheep in prefect relevance here, some people are coming here blindly and  attacking me (actually very very few people) they are clinging to a false fact / misinformation touted by Greg.  that is a sheep mentality nothing more nothing less,  IF people were to actually think from themselves and do a bit of digging on their own, they would find HUNDREDS of websites that have the SAME EXACT IMAGES that are on Greg's site,  NO mention of where the images came from,  and SOME of the sites are DIRECTLY COMPETING with Greg's site by selling stuff.

The ONLY reason Greg came after me is he assumed (quite wrongly) that W.O.W.  was tied to the mass exodus of his forum, when in reality W.O.W. was registered and started in January, where as this forum and  Greg's latest meltdown is less then 3 weeks  old.

I even pointed out and posted links  from google and bing that showed TONS of 'greg's images' but he never once addressed them, 

did those sites not do the exact same thing I am accused of?

But I'm singled out, and put inside a cyber dunk tank, I'm vilified and attacked for no real good reason.

The question  IS in fact a matter of legality and nothing more,  as I said in the start of this post, If Greg does not truly OWN the images  there was nothing for me to 'steal' and so,  there was, is no issue.

There will still be those few who attack, no matter what becomes  of W.O.W. and IF the events of the past few weeks never happened,   none of this would have happened either,  I'm just the whipping boy for all the people leaving Greg's site.

IF anyone turns on their brain and actually READS,   i mean REALLY READS all  those posts on this forum made  by Greg they would see how stupid all of this really truly is.

-Jay-

Offline Plan 9

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Re: World Of Wackies...
« Reply #47 on: March 24, 2010, 06:02:31 AM »
We know all about the Wacky Pack sites. We're the hobbyists, in case you didn't notice. Hundreds of sites stole Greg's complete collection of images? Try naming three. So you justify your theft by comparing it to the same actions of other thieves? You think because Topps owns the images that you can wait for someone else to spend years finding prime examples, scanning them and uploading them as if they're doing it just for your site? Try doing the work yourself and you might get a clue of what you did wrong. You base your innocence on how many people speak up about it? So if nobody catches you doing something wrong then you haven't done anything wrong? Greg's arguments are not the point here. If you'll rip off one of our sites then who's next? I had plans for a website about the art of Wacky Packages but knowing you're around completely killed that project. You're no whipping boy. You don't know shit about the politics of Greg's forum and you were irrelevant before you pulled your little stunt. All you had to do was admit what you did was wrong and you'd probably never have heard another word about it. But you maintain your innocence. You lack integrity in a big way and it's going to suck when Brad or anyone else here gets screwed by you again. If you have some grand secret explanation for trying to steal ten years of someone's time and labor, at the worst possible time in their life, then present it now. Otherwise you're branded pal.

Offline wackyman

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Re: World Of Wackies...
« Reply #48 on: March 24, 2010, 06:16:43 AM »
We know all about the Wacky Pack sites. We're the hobbyists, in case you didn't notice. Hundreds of sites stole Greg's complete collection of images? Try naming three. So you justify your theft by comparing it to the same actions of other thieves? You think because Topps owns the images that you can wait for someone else to spend years finding prime examples, scanning them and uploading them as if they're doing it just for your site? Try doing the work yourself and you might get a clue of what you did wrong. You base your innocence on how many people speak up about it? So if nobody catches you doing something wrong then you haven't done anything wrong? Greg's arguments are not the point here. If you'll rip off one of our sites then who's next? I had plans for a website about the art of Wacky Packages but knowing you're around completely killed that project. You're no whipping boy. You don't know shit about the politics of Greg's forum and you were irrelevant before you pulled your little stunt. All you had to do was admit what you did was wrong and you'd probably never have heard another word about it. But you maintain your innocence. You lack integrity in a big way and it's going to suck when Brad or anyone else here gets screwed by you again. If you have some grand secret explanation for trying to steal ten years of someone's time and labor, at the worst possible time in their life, then present it now. Otherwise you're branded pal.

You know what, I'm done with this subject,

all you tiny few are doing is stretching the story more and more with every single post you make, embelishing the hell out of everything and totally twisting the truth and facts  of the matter.

NOW, I 'stole' EVERY IMAGE (it was not even a quarter of images from Greg's site) and the number of years spent scanning the images started at 4 (per Greg's own words) has now jumped up to 10 years.

I swear... you can't write stuff like this,  you just can't make up the madness that has gone down in this thread, the other thread, and the threads on Greg's desert forum.

I'm just going to ignore the few negative posts that will continue to pop up, cause I know you speak for a very few in this hobby, the bulk of the people know I did nothing wrong, and there was no malice behind my actual actions,  you and a select few are doing anything and everything you can to twist and turn the real story into the total opposite of what really went down.

But, I guess do whatever you feel the need to do to get your kicks, but from here on out you'll be doing it without responses from me.

you really are just like Greg though with your posts,  Greg takes a sentence from like this:

"If YOU continue to slander me and defaming my name in public forums I WILL take legal action"

And Greg touts to anyone who will listen:

"Do you know how stupid you look coming here and threatening to sue EVERY forum member...."

You guys are real good at twisting the truth,  but I wonder,   how many others actually buy into your twisted words?

-Jay-


Offline BumChex

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Re: World Of Wackies...
« Reply #49 on: March 24, 2010, 07:02:40 AM »
I thought perhaps I should quote the exact passage I was referring to, should anyone counter that I was misrepresenting the facts. (I recalled this passage, its gist anyway, because it struck me as hypocritical.) It will take me a while to find the passage, but if you like, I can PM it to you, keeping in mind that your reading and mine could still differ. Perhaps we can leave it at, "Greg said something I interpreted such-and-such way, and then did such-and-such"?

Also: was Brad, as you say, involved in using Greg's images on another site? Honestly, I didn't think he was, but maybe I don't have the facts.

Also: I'm not defending anyone using Greg's images for their own site. That in itself is pretty low in my book. I appreciate the time he put into the scanning and the Photoshopping.

...

EDIT: Might as well get this over with:

char_boy: "They've taken this as some kind of petty competition, which shows what motivates them.  If I had tried to compete with these people it would have been child's play, obviously, but I sent everybody to brat's forum." (http://wackypackages.org/forum/messages.php?mode=&a=3&t=11&mn=26&stealth=)

My point was that Greg's buying www.worldofwackys.com struck me squarely as the sort of "petty competition" he claims he's not engaging in. "Petty," because it does him no real good except as a potential impediment to someone else. Naturally, some might disagree with that conclusion, but I didn't pull it out of thin air. (It seems silly to belabor the point, as this is but one instance of rancorous behavior among many, on both sides, so I will belabor it no further.)

Yep, let's move on. This is all ancient history. This is all a new beginning for everyone.

Offline Paul_Maul

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Re: World Of Wackies...
« Reply #50 on: March 24, 2010, 10:11:13 AM »
The only reason I brought it up again is because we've still got this guy in our circle who can't admit he did something ethically perverse. Yes, he removed the stuff from his site so he knows he did something wrong. But instead of admitting it he tries to label anyone who speaks up as a Greg worshipper. If he even had a clue who's who around here he wouldn't be so quick to make such naive statements. I'm speaking up in support of right and wrong. Until Jay admits what he did was ethically wrong he is still the same character he was yesterday, last month and last year. I don't think anybody anywhere who put so much effort into building a site like Greg's would ever agree to let some stranger come along and steal it under the pretense of "reconstruction". Now Jay wants to leave out the original series stuff. Why? Because he can't accomplish it without the intense efforts that Greg put into it or let someone else hand it to him on a silver platter. It's that effort that Jay has no respect for and tried to steal. He tries to cloud the issue with arguments about who owns the images when it's clear to any honest person that it's a diversion from the real crime. I'm curious to know what other sites this guy built. I'll be we could then track down the site he swiped the material from. Or has he ever even built a site before World of Wackiiiieees?

Wow, what an amazing job of highlighting the pertinent issues and un-clouding the attempts at obfuscation. Bravissimo!

Offline Paul_Maul

  • Posts: 2462
Re: World Of Wackies...
« Reply #51 on: March 24, 2010, 10:20:11 AM »

NOW, I 'stole' EVERY IMAGE (it was not even a quarter of images from Greg's site) and the number of years spent scanning the images started at 4 (per Greg's own words) has now jumped up to 10 years.


The main mystery is why you continue to play semantic word games. Who knows the exact number of man-hours spent creating the aggregate of the pictures on Greg's site? They have been created over a time period beginning whenever he started and ending now. That's the 10  years.

Do you have any idea how much work it took to hunt down examples of over 50 series 1-16 unopened pack variations? The scanning is a miniscule tip of the iceberg in the time it took to create these images. This is why the copyright ownership issue has been and continues to be such a bogus excuse. Like Mark said.

Bum_and_Mabel

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Re: World Of Wackies...
« Reply #52 on: March 24, 2010, 02:46:04 PM »
Yep, let's move on. This is all ancient history. This is all a new beginning for everyone.
Indeed. 
I think you are doing a great job.

Offline bandaches

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Re: World Of Wackies...
« Reply #53 on: March 24, 2010, 03:04:48 PM »
no, he slammed them for using his images on a competing site. He doesn't care about competing sites, just the use of his images on them.
....and to repeat again......greg's images have been down for some time yet he is still waging a war in this area which included buying a sister URL he could not possibly have ever thought of buying until WOW came along.....this suggests greg is AGAINST the existance of WOW and is not supporting it even though it now has all of the pieces greg is sorely missing....so I stand by my statement that he does NOT endorse competing websites like he claims he does.
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Offline bandaches

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Re: World Of Wackies...
« Reply #54 on: March 24, 2010, 03:10:28 PM »
The only reason I brought it up again is because we've still got this guy in our circle who can't admit he did something ethically perverse. Yes, he removed the stuff from his site so he knows he did something wrong. But instead of admitting it he tries to label anyone who speaks up as a Greg worshipper. If he even had a clue who's who around here he wouldn't be so quick to make such naive statements. I'm speaking up in support of right and wrong. Until Jay admits what he did was ethically wrong he is still the same character he was yesterday, last month and last year. I don't think anybody anywhere who put so much effort into building a site like Greg's would ever agree to let some stranger come along and steal it under the pretense of "reconstruction". Now Jay wants to leave out the original series stuff. Why? Because he can't accomplish it without the intense efforts that Greg put into it or let someone else hand it to him on a silver platter. It's that effort that Jay has no respect for and tried to steal. He tries to cloud the issue with arguments about who owns the images when it's clear to any honest person that it's a diversion from the real crime. I'm curious to know what other sites this guy built. I'll be we could then track down the site he swiped the material from. Or has he ever even built a site before World of Wackiiiieees?
Since when did the foundation of this hobby revolve around people admitting their mistakes?  I am hard pressed to think of any examples of greg admitting making a mistake so I am lost on why the "admission" part is critical. 

Are you suggesting your version of ethics are the only version that exists?  You are treading water on major double standards being applied and hence "greg worshipper" might be an appropriate phrase to use. 

I happen to think stealing other's work is unethical but I am not going to judge that as being any better or worse crime than ignoring the wishes of the populous to leave a forum open or habitually talking down to people or creating blackball forums......

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Offline bandaches

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Re: World Of Wackies...
« Reply #55 on: March 24, 2010, 03:16:12 PM »
I may not have read that passage you're referring to, as I'm still catching up on the threads. 2 weeks behind, and still working to read it all. If you run across it, you can PM it. No big deal though.

and you're right. you wrote Brad and Jay, and I automatically used "them" in response, but really just meant to refer to Jay.
Exactly!  "They" is being very casually thrown around and greg broadly called everyone here a dipshit because of the actions of Jay and now greg's war wages on even with WOW site having only pieces greg is missing.  Of course it is not convenient for greg's war to wage related to current situation since nothing about the CURRENT situation feeds his need to play victim so it is based on a moment in time in the past.
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Offline bandaches

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Re: World Of Wackies...
« Reply #56 on: March 24, 2010, 03:22:23 PM »
One can not 'steal'  something that does not belong to the person who claims to have been 'stolen' from.

THAT is why I keep bringing up the actual ownership issue.

And I might just be tired,or just  getting completely tired of  this entire issue but since when did the word 'sheep' mean "greg worshiper" ?  cause you claim I keep labeling everyone who speaks against me "greg worshipers"

I used the term Sheep in prefect relevance here, some people are coming here blindly and  attacking me (actually very very few people) they are clinging to a false fact / misinformation touted by Greg.  that is a sheep mentality nothing more nothing less,  IF people were to actually think from themselves and do a bit of digging on their own, they would find HUNDREDS of websites that have the SAME EXACT IMAGES that are on Greg's site,  NO mention of where the images came from,  and SOME of the sites are DIRECTLY COMPETING with Greg's site by selling stuff.

The ONLY reason Greg came after me is he assumed (quite wrongly) that W.O.W.  was tied to the mass exodus of his forum, when in reality W.O.W. was registered and started in January, where as this forum and  Greg's latest meltdown is less then 3 weeks  old.

I even pointed out and posted links  from google and bing that showed TONS of 'greg's images' but he never once addressed them, 

did those sites not do the exact same thing I am accused of?

But I'm singled out, and put inside a cyber dunk tank, I'm vilified and attacked for no real good reason.

The question  IS in fact a matter of legality and nothing more,  as I said in the start of this post, If Greg does not truly OWN the images  there was nothing for me to 'steal' and so,  there was, is no issue.

There will still be those few who attack, no matter what becomes  of W.O.W. and IF the events of the past few weeks never happened,   none of this would have happened either,  I'm just the whipping boy for all the people leaving Greg's site.

IF anyone turns on their brain and actually READS,   i mean REALLY READS all  those posts on this forum made  by Greg they would see how stupid all of this really truly is.

-Jay-

The Sheep term is equated to greg worshipper because for the longest time, I called the greg worshippers sheep.  Remember, greg is convinced I put you up to this so any reference to any term I have used in the past will strike a chord even though up until last week, my association with you was like two PMs in trying to make a trade for 1986 album stickers.

Also, the group here does have a good point.  You are missing the point about there being a difference between LEGALITY and COOLNESS.  You might have had a legal right to use greg's images but few people care about that.  It is viewed as uncool to take someone elses work so casually and the fact you have not acknowledged that has ruffled some feathers even though your ACTIONS did undo the uncool act.  People want to hear you acknowledge that it is uncool to use other's works so carelessly as that is the expected conduct in this hobby that you are a member.
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Offline bandaches

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Re: World Of Wackies...
« Reply #57 on: March 24, 2010, 03:26:30 PM »
The main mystery is why you continue to play semantic word games. Who knows the exact number of man-hours spent creating the aggregate of the pictures on Greg's site? They have been created over a time period beginning whenever he started and ending now. That's the 10  years.

Do you have any idea how much work it took to hunt down examples of over 50 series 1-16 unopened pack variations? The scanning is a miniscule tip of the iceberg in the time it took to create these images. This is why the copyright ownership issue has been and continues to be such a bogus excuse. Like Mark said.
So Dave, how do you feel about the divisive act of ignoring the populous wishes to keep a forum up, creating a blackball forum and referring to a group of people as dipshits due to the act of a one person?  You have made zero comments on those aspects and have made numerous relating to the use of greg's images.  Sorry but using someone's website images seems less hurtful to the hobby and you proclaim to be worried about the health of the hobby as a top priority....sometimes.....
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Offline bandaches

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Re: World Of Wackies...
« Reply #58 on: March 24, 2010, 03:37:00 PM »
You know what, I'm done with this subject,

all you tiny few are doing is stretching the story more and more with every single post you make, embelishing the hell out of everything and totally twisting the truth and facts  of the matter.

NOW, I 'stole' EVERY IMAGE (it was not even a quarter of images from Greg's site) and the number of years spent scanning the images started at 4 (per Greg's own words) has now jumped up to 10 years.

I swear... you can't write stuff like this,  you just can't make up the madness that has gone down in this thread, the other thread, and the threads on Greg's desert forum.

I'm just going to ignore the few negative posts that will continue to pop up, cause I know you speak for a very few in this hobby, the bulk of the people know I did nothing wrong, and there was no malice behind my actual actions,  you and a select few are doing anything and everything you can to twist and turn the real story into the total opposite of what really went down.

But, I guess do whatever you feel the need to do to get your kicks, but from here on out you'll be doing it without responses from me.

you really are just like Greg though with your posts,  Greg takes a sentence from like this:

"If YOU continue to slander me and defaming my name in public forums I WILL take legal action"

And Greg touts to anyone who will listen:

"Do you know how stupid you look coming here and threatening to sue EVERY forum member...."

You guys are real good at twisting the truth,  but I wonder,   how many others actually buy into your twisted words?

-Jay-



There is no question that greg's over aggressive public approach made it difficult for you to want to concede any aspect of what he said is correct.  The folks who only see greg's side of thing will never appreciate that his overzealous behavior causes many of the problems as well as prevents them from being fixed. 

greg has basically created a situation where if you were to concede that taking images is uncool, that he "won" instead of creating an environment where "right for the hobby" would prevail.  Because he is so arrogant, I can see how someone would refrain from going down the "doing what is right for the hobby" because greg made it so irksome. 

He clearly never bothered to contact you directly and took this straight to a public spat and included us all in it by calling us all dipshits.  While I again feel taking someone else's work is not cool, why admit that to someone who handled the situation like greg did.  Of course the argument will go round and round as to whether greg acted like an overzealous ass first or whether you defended yourself first but the FACT is that regardless of which post hit the airwaves first, greg didn't contact you privately first to work this out, he made it an immediate public war and hence laid the foundation for this to be difficult to diffuse quietly. 

Take special note that many of the folks who are whining endlessly about your uncool act have made nearly zero mention of greg's uncool act of calling us all a bunch of dipshits and blaming us all for this act.  Is there now suddenly a scale of greater and lesser uncool acts?  Of course there is and of course that lays the foundation of biases, use of the words sheep and so on....

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Offline Dr Popper

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Re: World Of Wackies...
« Reply #59 on: March 24, 2010, 03:44:19 PM »
One can not 'steal'  something that does not belong to the person who claims to have been 'stolen' from.

THAT is why I keep bringing up the actual ownership issue.

And I might just be tired,or just  getting completely tired of  this entire issue but since when did the word 'sheep' mean "greg worshiper" ?  cause you claim I keep labeling everyone who speaks against me "greg worshipers"

I used the term Sheep in prefect relevance here, some people are coming here blindly and  attacking me (actually very very few people) they are clinging to a false fact / misinformation touted by Greg.  that is a sheep mentality nothing more nothing less,  IF people were to actually think from themselves and do a bit of digging on their own, they would find HUNDREDS of websites that have the SAME EXACT IMAGES that are on Greg's site,  NO mention of where the images came from,  and SOME of the sites are DIRECTLY COMPETING with Greg's site by selling stuff.

The ONLY reason Greg came after me is he assumed (quite wrongly) that W.O.W.  was tied to the mass exodus of his forum, when in reality W.O.W. was registered and started in January, where as this forum and  Greg's latest meltdown is less then 3 weeks  old.

I even pointed out and posted links  from google and bing that showed TONS of 'greg's images' but he never once addressed them, 

did those sites not do the exact same thing I am accused of?

But I'm singled out, and put inside a cyber dunk tank, I'm vilified and attacked for no real good reason.

The question  IS in fact a matter of legality and nothing more,  as I said in the start of this post, If Greg does not truly OWN the images  there was nothing for me to 'steal' and so,  there was, is no issue.

There will still be those few who attack, no matter what becomes  of W.O.W. and IF the events of the past few weeks never happened,   none of this would have happened either,  I'm just the whipping boy for all the people leaving Greg's site.

IF anyone turns on their brain and actually READS,   i mean REALLY READS all  those posts on this forum made  by Greg they would see how stupid all of this really truly is.

-Jay-

So are you basically saying you don't see anything wrong with the fact that you plucked the images Greg created without permission?  I don't care or want to hear about the legalities, I want to know how you feel about whether or not it was a cool thing to do. 
Dr Popper (aka Rob Palmer)

Offline Duznt

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Re: World Of Wackies...
« Reply #60 on: March 24, 2010, 08:13:53 PM »
which included buying a sister URL

Something interesting from Wikipedia: "a form of cybersquatting which relies on mistakes such as typographical errors made by Internet users when inputting a website address into a web browser", is called "Typosquatting":
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typosquatting


Offline Plan 9

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Re: World Of Wackies...
« Reply #61 on: March 25, 2010, 05:06:22 AM »
Ernie,
Greg's behavior doesn't concern me. Stealing concerns me. Especially when the thief doesn't understand what he did wrong. And even more so when he acts like we're wrong because so few are willing to speak up about it. This is how he introduced himself to the group.

Offline Dr Popper

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Re: World Of Wackies...
« Reply #62 on: March 25, 2010, 06:01:32 AM »
Yep, let's move on. This is all ancient history. This is all a new beginning for everyone.

I don't believe anyone would have brought it up again if he just admitted what he did wasn't right, but he keeps avoiding the ethical issue and focusing on the legal, and doesn't acknowledge what he did was wrong, and it was clearly wrong.  He took the stuff down, good job.  All he needed to do was say after he took them down…….. "sorry guys, I took a shortcut not recognizing the work that went into them, and in hindsight it was wrong and I'm sorry".

Some people just don't have the ability to admit mistakes. 

 
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Offline Schmutz

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Re: World Of Wackies...
« Reply #63 on: March 25, 2010, 06:14:35 AM »
"sorry guys, I took a shortcut not recognizing the work that went into them, and in hindsight it was wrong and I'm sorry".

This is close to what I was going to suggest. "My bad, images removed, moving on..."

Offline Paul_Maul

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Re: World Of Wackies...
« Reply #64 on: March 25, 2010, 06:39:55 AM »
So Dave, how do you feel about the divisive act of ignoring the populous wishes to keep a forum up, creating a blackball forum and referring to a group of people as dipshits due to the act of a one person?  You have made zero comments on those aspects and have made numerous relating to the use of greg's images.  Sorry but using someone's website images seems less hurtful to the hobby and you proclaim to be worried about the health of the hobby as a top priority....sometimes.....


If you really want my opinion on these things (rather than just endlessly trying to find ways to imply I'm a Greg Worshiper),
I'll answer. I will not respond to further badgering about my positions on these things.

1. Brad announced on Greg's forum that he was preparing a new forum and suggested, albeit politely, that the new forum was technically superior to Greg's, and that he was doing it because of technical problems with Greg's forum. Of course, he can do anything he wants, but I believe (just my impression) Greg got pissed and felt unappreciated for the work he had put into the forum. He got fed up and decided to close the forum. Starting the "backyard barbeque" forum doesn't bother me in the least, anyone can start a forum and run it any way they want if people choose to participate.

2. Jay rolled out his WOW site, chock full of images taken from Greg's site, and the follow-up posts were generally in the vain of "Cool," "Great Site," etc. Again Greg felt betrayed and flew off the handle, and made the dipshits comment.

The common thread here is that, yes, Greg has a tendency to blow up when he feels unappreciated, betrayed, etc. No one ever declared him a candidate for the diplomatic service. I don't happen to feel the basis of his being upset was wrong on either count.

I don't base my posting habits on what's worst or best for the hobby. I posted a lot about the stolen images because it bothered me, and yes, it bothered me more than any of the things you cite.

I hope you are satisfied with my explanation. I hope I will not be recalled to the witness stand.




Offline bandaches

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Re: World Of Wackies...
« Reply #65 on: March 25, 2010, 07:42:28 AM »
Ernie,
Greg's behavior doesn't concern me. Stealing concerns me. Especially when the thief doesn't understand what he did wrong. And even more so when he acts like we're wrong because so few are willing to speak up about it. This is how he introduced himself to the group.
There isn't a "few" who spoke up, in fact, almost unanomously, we feel his act is uncool and have said so.  He undid the bad deed.  You seem more intent on the triage now and whether he will subscribe to your ethics on this manner.  I agree it paints him in a bad light in the hobby to not agree with the ethics relating to stealing of work.  Jay stole from someone(greg) whose ethics can also be argued rather easily are reprehensible in playing God and ingoring the populous request to leave a forum open and to attack an entire group of innocent people as dipshits and many find greg's acts more damaging to the hobby as a whole.
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Offline bandaches

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Re: World Of Wackies...
« Reply #66 on: March 25, 2010, 07:46:57 AM »
I don't believe anyone would have brought it up again if he just admitted what he did wasn't right, but he keeps avoiding the ethical issue and focusing on the legal, and doesn't acknowledge what he did was wrong, and it was clearly wrong.  He took the stuff down, good job.  All he needed to do was say after he took them down…….. "sorry guys, I took a shortcut not recognizing the work that went into them, and in hindsight it was wrong and I'm sorry".

Some people just don't have the ability to admit mistakes. 

 
I will state again in case you missed it, greg made it nearly impossible for him to admit it as a mistake because greg immediately turned it into "greg is right" in the most obnoxious public spatting way possible instead of presenting it calmly and privately as the right thing to do for the hobby.

This is akin to PDQ making a reference to a "Godlike" person in the hobby on Tom's forum.  greg sent me emails demanding the post be taken down and immediately threatening me with revenge if we didn't.  PDQ post was definitely a grey area post and since greg declared himself a self appointed God in this hobby, he felt the post was directed to him but he made if very difficult for anyone to even view the greyness of the post because of the way he handled his complaint....so I told greg to go F^&* himself in response to his demands even though I had thoughts just before that of pulling the post.
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Offline bandaches

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Re: World Of Wackies...
« Reply #67 on: March 25, 2010, 07:49:43 AM »
This is close to what I was going to suggest. "My bad, images removed, moving on..."

His actions don't suggest this?  Did anyone notice he never once denied having those images and hence didn't approach this in a sneaky manner.  I prefer someone whose ACTIONS are favorable over someone who says a lot of pretty stuff and whose actions diverge from the verbal as is often the case with greg.
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Offline bandaches

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Re: World Of Wackies...
« Reply #68 on: March 25, 2010, 07:56:13 AM »
If you really want my opinion on these things (rather than just endlessly trying to find ways to imply I'm a Greg Worshiper),
I'll answer. I will not respond to further badgering about my positions on these things.

1. Brad announced on Greg's forum that he was preparing a new forum and suggested, albeit politely, that the new forum was technically superior to Greg's, and that he was doing it because of technical problems with Greg's forum. Of course, he can do anything he wants, but I believe (just my impression) Greg got pissed and felt unappreciated for the work he had put into the forum. He got fed up and decided to close the forum. Starting the "backyard barbeque" forum doesn't bother me in the least, anyone can start a forum and run it any way they want if people choose to participate.

2. Jay rolled out his WOW site, chock full of images taken from Greg's site, and the follow-up posts were generally in the vain of "Cool," "Great Site," etc. Again Greg felt betrayed and flew off the handle, and made the dipshits comment.

The common thread here is that, yes, Greg has a tendency to blow up when he feels unappreciated, betrayed, etc. No one ever declared him a candidate for the diplomatic service. I don't happen to feel the basis of his being upset was wrong on either count.

I don't base my posting habits on what's worst or best for the hobby. I posted a lot about the stolen images because it bothered me, and yes, it bothered me more than any of the things you cite.

I hope you are satisfied with my explanation. I hope I will not be recalled to the witness stand.





Very pretty post but you have not actually answered my questions much at all.  You were staunchly against Tom's forum dividing the hobby.  How do you feel about greg's ignoring the populous and shutting his forum down in effect doing what Tom did.  It is clear you have never liked Tom so you gave zero credence to there being a "justified" reason for his forum yet I see you bending over backwards to rationalize greg doing the same thing is ok and worse yet, greg's is a blackball forum.

Why can't you just say you are biased towards greg, why is that so irksome to say?  Your posts are completely in line with that so very consistent.  Consistency is good!

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Offline Paul_Maul

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Re: World Of Wackies...
« Reply #69 on: March 25, 2010, 08:20:59 AM »
You were staunchly against Tom's forum dividing the hobby.  How do you feel about greg's ignoring the populous and shutting his forum down in effect doing what Tom did.

First of all, I posted on Greg's forum when the suggestion of Brad's forum was originally made that I was against it. Greg basically transferred the reins of the public forum to Brad, that's nothing like what happened with Tom's forum.
The situation is not analogous to Tom's forum anyway, since there are not really two competing forums at the moment. 99% of forum activity has moved here, so there really isn't any division of information. I don't see any public gnashing of teeth over the move, on the contrary almost everyone seems completely fine with it.

It is clear you have never liked Tom so you gave zero credence to there being a "justified" reason for his forum yet I see you bending over backwards to rationalize greg doing the same thing is ok and worse yet, greg's is a blackball forum.

First, you're absolutely wrong, I like Tom personally quite a bit. I have hung out with him many times enjoyably, I even gave him a Blue Oyster Cult CD one time. There have been posts of his of his over the years the content of which have bothered me deeply, that's the only issue there ever was.

Tom may have had a "justified reason" for starting a new forum in his mind. All I said was that having two sizeable forums running concurrently was not efficient. That's not what is happening here. Greg transferred the public forum to Brad. Why the original forum is still postable I don't really understand. Calling the "backyard BBQ" forum a blackball forum is like complaining that everyone is not allowed to participate in a phone call. It's not intended to be a public forum. As the lack of traffic there demonstrates, that forum appears to be pretty much driven by Greg's participation, anyone can start such a forum and invite or ban anyone they want. If it were me starting such a forum, I would underscore that point by having people apply for membership to the forum, or have it be by invitation only. I do agree that allowing people to register for it without approval makes it seem like a public forum, and makes someone's exclusion seem worse than it really is.

Why can't you just say you are biased towards greg, why is that so irksome to say?  Your posts are completely in line with that so very consistent.  Consistency is good!

Clearly, your Vincent Bugliosi impression is directed towards badgering that admission out of me, unfortunately that assertion is of no interest to me, so I will continue to ignore it.

 

anything