Author Topic: Knock off posters  (Read 1323 times)

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Re: Knock off posters
« Reply #35 on: August 21, 2020, 06:58:11 AM »
My point has not varied, you assigned hard and fast rules to ALL C&Ds and I am stating it was haphazard.  Again, why was Weakies completely removed from display boxes and Quacker only altered?  Why is there a 1979 version of bandache diecutting? Was it ready to be used again for something?  Obviously all C&Ds have long expired since none of them are being followed today.  When did they expire?  Mid 80's, mid 90's?
Just taking the contrary point, that C&Ds were not haphazard and chaotic. Were there some in-house only items that escaped into the wild? seems that way (e.g. numberless die-cuts, irish test set, etc.). but that doesn't invalidate the whole process, and that there wasn't a methodology in their application.

Looking again at the boxes, we can see that initially Topps only removed the text from the Weakies and Quaker images for 6th/7th boxes - which likely was the cheapest solution for Topps. Eliminates the offending names, but retains the Topps character art, saves money not having to re-tool anything. (They did the same with the Cheapios tattoo)
Likely General Mills saw the textless version and was not amused, and then forced the complete removal of the box image as seen on 8th.
Do we have letters from Topps and GM lawyers showing that discussion? No. But it's also not a haphazard progression of events.


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Re: Knock off posters
« Reply #36 on: August 21, 2020, 07:51:35 AM »
Just taking the contrary point, that C&Ds were not haphazard and chaotic. Were there some in-house only items that escaped into the wild? seems that way (e.g. numberless die-cuts, irish test set, etc.). but that doesn't invalidate the whole process, and that there wasn't a methodology in their application.

Looking again at the boxes, we can see that initially Topps only removed the text from the Weakies and Quaker images for 6th/7th boxes - which likely was the cheapest solution for Topps. Eliminates the offending names, but retains the Topps character art, saves money not having to re-tool anything. (They did the same with the Cheapios tattoo)
Likely General Mills saw the textless version and was not amused, and then forced the complete removal of the box image as seen on 8th.
Do we have letters from Topps and GM lawyers showing that discussion? No. But it's also not a haphazard progression of events.
topps was nothing close to a well oiled machine with wackys, they had a hot product that they were frantically trying to crank out as much art work as they could within months in 1974 which is why they had so many series in short time span.  The C&Ds all had their own flavor and different handling by Topps on top of that(I call it haphazard).  The lack of consistency of the C&Ds make it impossible to roll out a precise sequence of events and handling.  Again, when did the C&Ds become null and void?

Regardless of this, what is your theory on how this 1986 or earlier poster(there are at least 2 of them by the way) was created?  It has no diecuts in the borders, the images are clearly EXACT wacky package titles, two notoriously famous and favorite titles Weakies and Run Tony that were both C&Ds are absent.....We spent a lot of time saying what it is not, it is not a million things, what could it be?  My Money is still on a 3rd party that did or was planning to do something with wackys in the 1980s.  I dont see how a hobbyist would have made this.
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Offline MoldRush

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Re: Knock off posters
« Reply #37 on: August 21, 2020, 12:53:56 PM »
Again, when did the C&Ds become null and void?

My Money is still on a 3rd party that did or was planning to do something with wackys in the 1980s.  I dont see how a hobbyist would have made this.

Iíve wondered about the C&Ds ever since ANS rolled out.  I remember when Wackys were covered in an episode of Unwrapped, a Topps rep made it sound as if by 2004 the tide had shifted 180 degrees and now every company wanted to be parodied.  I doubt it was that simple; more likely between 1991 and 2004 Topps secured a legal victory that for whatever reason they choose not to disclose to the card-collecting public.

With respect to the poster, I would agree it was likely produced commercially but maybe not fully marketed.  Thinking of all the ANS era knock-off products, itís the only plausible explanation.  With todayís computer and printing equipment I would imagine this could easily be a homemade if produced recently, but not likely pre-1986.


Offline mikecho

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Re: Knock off posters
« Reply #38 on: August 21, 2020, 01:37:10 PM »
Iíve wondered about the C&Ds ever since ANS rolled out.  I remember when Wackys were covered in an episode of Unwrapped, a Topps rep made it sound as if by 2004 the tide had shifted 180 degrees and now every company wanted to be parodied.  I doubt it was that simple; more likely between 1991 and 2004 Topps secured a legal victory that for whatever reason they choose not to disclose to the card-collecting public.

With respect to the poster, I would agree it was likely produced commercially but maybe not fully marketed.  Thinking of all the ANS era knock-off products, itís the only plausible explanation.  With todayís computer and printing equipment I would imagine this could easily be a homemade if produced recently, but not likely pre-1986.
If you'd like to know some of the details of the C&Ds, look up Replies #68, 71 and 73 in the thread "What is the most-parodied product among all Wackys?" They should tell you most of what you need to know about what happened by the end of it all.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2020, 08:16:49 AM by mikecho »

Re: Knock off posters
« Reply #39 on: August 22, 2020, 06:20:42 AM »
Regardless of this, what is your theory on how this 1986 or earlier poster(there are at least 2 of them by the way) was created?  It has no diecuts in the borders, the images are clearly EXACT wacky package titles, two notoriously famous and favorite titles Weakies and Run Tony that were both C&Ds are absent.....We spent a lot of time saying what it is not, it is not a million things, what could it be?  My Money is still on a 3rd party that did or was planning to do something with wackys in the 1980s.  I dont see how a hobbyist would have made this.
What could it be? I still say this is fan produced.
I don't believe this is 3rd party item or had anything to do with Topps.
That logo is wrong and doesn't conform to the original.
There is no ģ symbol to the right of the S, or any copyright notice on the sheet.

There are a couple of dozen titles that were C&D on the sheet. And one that actually forced a U.S. production change - Dr. Ono.

Back to the logo - with the gradient shading, and styling of the letters, that tells me it's computer crafted. I do not believe this is from '86 or earlier.

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Re: Knock off posters
« Reply #40 on: August 22, 2020, 09:22:56 PM »
What could it be? I still say this is fan produced.
I don't believe this is 3rd party item or had anything to do with Topps.
That logo is wrong and doesn't conform to the original.
There is no ģ symbol to the right of the S, or any copyright notice on the sheet.

There are a couple of dozen titles that were C&D on the sheet. And one that actually forced a U.S. production change - Dr. Ono.

Back to the logo - with the gradient shading, and styling of the letters, that tells me it's computer crafted. I do not believe this is from '86 or earlier.
I don't see why the person who sold this to me would make up a story that the 2 posters his brother had were stored away when his brother died in 1986.  He now dug his brother's stuff out, and included with these posters was a pile of late 70s and early 80s baseball cards.  No other wackys were in the collection which i also found to be intriguing.
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Offline RawGoo

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Re: Knock off posters
« Reply #41 on: August 22, 2020, 11:39:45 PM »
I don't see why the person who sold this to me would make up a story that the 2 posters his brother had were stored away when his brother died in 1986.  He now dug his brother's stuff out, and included with these posters was a pile of late 70s and early 80s baseball cards.  No other wackys were in the collection which i also found to be intriguing.

It's amazing what turns up in older baseball card collections.  The beautiful Jolly Mean #21 that turned up earlier this year was found with 5 other die cuts in a big box of baseball cards.

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Re: Knock off posters
« Reply #42 on: August 23, 2020, 07:06:50 PM »
It's amazing what turns up in older baseball card collections.  The beautiful Jolly Mean #21 that turned up earlier this year was found with 5 other die cuts in a big box of baseball cards.
Agreed,  it seems wacky packages are often just chucked in with baseball card collections and some gold mines can be found
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