Author Topic: ANS7 Sketch Review  (Read 85353 times)

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Offline bandaches

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ANS7 Sketch Review
« on: August 29, 2010, 07:36:13 PM »
It's hard to say because the sketch cards are so rare with this series, we can't really compare it to the Postcard or Old School sketches.
The sketch cards are only rare as a % of the supply of ANS7 stuff but the pure quantity of sketch cards exceeeds many post card sets.  Doesn't this suggest that if all of the ANS7 sketch cards were to surface, they would be worth LESS than post card sketchs based on pure counts?  Granted it will take much longer and if ANS7 satutates the market resulting in many cases never being opened, then some % of ANS7 sketch cards will never be found but even if 50% of ANS7 is opened, then 150 sketches will surface and that suggests prices of $1000 is insane. 
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Offline slamjim

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« Reply #1 on: August 29, 2010, 08:07:51 PM »
I think we will be lucky to see 50 sketches show up.

Offline bandaches

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« Reply #2 on: August 29, 2010, 08:44:17 PM »
I think we will be lucky to see 50 sketches show up.
Which is on par with the number that show up for Post card sets.
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Offline slamjim

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« Reply #3 on: August 29, 2010, 09:00:07 PM »
Which is on par with the number that show up for Post card sets.

Are you referring to Ebay though? At least with the postcard sketches we pretty much know exactly with whom all 250 ended up going to. If we are lucky 50 of the ANS will show up in the hands of collectors and dealers to be seen at all. The postcards don't sit on shelves at Target and Wal-Mart to be scooped up by kids and impulse buyers.

Offline BumChex

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« Reply #4 on: August 30, 2010, 07:03:23 AM »
The sketch cards are only rare as a % of the supply of ANS7 stuff but the pure quantity of sketch cards exceeeds many post card sets.  Doesn't this suggest that if all of the ANS7 sketch cards were to surface, they would be worth LESS than post card sketchs based on pure counts?  Granted it will take much longer and if ANS7 satutates the market resulting in many cases never being opened, then some % of ANS7 sketch cards will never be found but even if 50% of ANS7 is opened, then 150 sketches will surface and that suggests prices of $1000 is insane. 

I'll tell you what, I don't like to spend a $1000 on a card but I will if I think it's worth it to me and I feel strongly about it's value. I don't think I have spent $1000 on any single card ever. I am with Dave on this. I think we will be very lucky to see 50 of these sketch cards. I have a hunch it will be under 20. I am not going to chase these by buying packs. I am officially done buying packs and that is how I could justify spending the $1000 on the sketch. I could easily spend that grand on 3 more cases and not get squat!
From what I can tell from just the few sketches that have shown up is the artists put in a little more work on these than some of the PC sketches. The one I got was fantastic. I also think each sketch will be different and very unique. Jay did a hell of a job on the OLDS sketches but he also did the same image multiple times so people wanted to collect all the different characters. You won't be able to do that with ANS7 sketches.

Offline Dr Popper

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« Reply #5 on: August 30, 2010, 08:11:36 AM »
I got in that Creep sketch and it is really amazing! It's much better in person than in the photo. I would love to get more but these things are going to be really tough! There has only been 4 on ebay so far which is really odd or they are really tough to get. No one on the forum other than Jerry has pulled one that I am aware of.

I still think we are early in the opening process.  I bet just a small % of the production run is opened at this point.
Dr Popper (aka Rob Palmer)

Offline Dr Popper

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« Reply #6 on: August 30, 2010, 08:17:33 AM »
Thanks! I do know the Crust shirt that you mean. I wasn't thinking of it, but it was probably a subconscious influence. Topps wanted to see the full package in the sketches, and I followed that direction most of the time, but I found it hard to showcase the characters that way. So I did a number of them like the Crust in which I floated the character off the package. I used this Crust design 4 times with slight variations, 3 in black and white and 1 in color.

Here is the Crust I bought plus a Gloom I pulled last night!!................
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Offline DrSushi

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ANS7 Sketch Review
« Reply #7 on: August 30, 2010, 08:20:07 AM »
Here is the Crust I bought plus a Gloom I pulled last night!!................

Did you pull it at 2:30 (tooth-hurty)?

Offline Dr Popper

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« Reply #8 on: August 30, 2010, 08:20:37 AM »
I am officially done buying packs and that is how I could justify spending the $1000 on the sketch. I could easily spend that grand on 3 more cases and not get squat!

Are you sure you want to make that bold of a statement so early?  These are addictive to open!  LOL!
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Offline BumChex

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« Reply #9 on: August 30, 2010, 09:14:13 AM »
Are you sure you want to make that bold of a statement so early?  These are addictive to open!  LOL!

After opening 800 packs and getting 2 of the same golds (one with a crimped corner) and 2 Jay auto's. I think I may be about done. I just can't see myself throwing money at these trying to get a sketch. It would be a lot cheaper just to buy the sketch cards I want and then I don't have to deal with all the base cards piling up.
If the odds were better on the sketches I would be buying a lot more such as one sketch per case of 8 boxes. I probably would be buying a ton if that was the case.
You will also notice nothing is moving on ebay either.

Great job on the pulled sketch. How many boxes have you opened?

Offline Dr Popper

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« Reply #10 on: August 30, 2010, 05:59:03 PM »
After opening 800 packs and getting 2 of the same golds (one with a crimped corner) and 2 Jay auto's. I think I may be about done. I just can't see myself throwing money at these trying to get a sketch. It would be a lot cheaper just to buy the sketch cards I want and then I don't have to deal with all the base cards piling up.
If the odds were better on the sketches I would be buying a lot more such as one sketch per case of 8 boxes. I probably would be buying a ton if that was the case.
You will also notice nothing is moving on ebay either.

Great job on the pulled sketch. How many boxes have you opened?

I've opened 19 hobby boxes with 5 to go.  I'm saving the last 5 for my daughters to open with me tomorrow night.
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Offline BumChex

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« Reply #11 on: August 30, 2010, 06:23:47 PM »
You realize if you were to buy as many packs as the stated odds at retail prices you would spend almost $5,000 and you still might not get a sketch.

Offline bandaches

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« Reply #12 on: August 30, 2010, 06:29:20 PM »
Are you referring to Ebay though? At least with the postcard sketches we pretty much know exactly with whom all 250 ended up going to. If we are lucky 50 of the ANS will show up in the hands of collectors and dealers to be seen at all. The postcards don't sit on shelves at Target and Wal-Mart to be scooped up by kids and impulse buyers.
I disagree.  It will take a long time because the ANS7 sketches are buried in huge supply but we already have over 5 sketches in barely a few days.  Little by little, well over 100 of these will surface.  I am as sure of this as I was that colored bordered flashback cards would crash in price to which I won my gentlemen's bet with Dr. Popper.  This of course assumes ANS7 doesn't bomb.....if it bombs and a large supply sits unopened in dealer and Topps hands unsold, then all bets are off although even then, when the supply is dumped cheaply, the hard core collectors will buy it up and crack it all open hence the high confidence in my prediction.
 
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Offline sco(o)t

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ANS7 Sketch Review
« Reply #13 on: August 30, 2010, 08:55:53 PM »
Did you pull it at 2:30 (tooth-hurty)?

Ouch! That made all my tooths hurty, DrShushi. Nothing like a good pun right before bed.... and that was nothing like a good pun. Thanks for the groaner!!
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Offline Plan 9

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ANS7 Sketch Review
« Reply #14 on: August 30, 2010, 09:52:10 PM »
I disagree.  It will take a long time because the ANS7 sketches are buried in huge supply but we already have over 5 sketches in barely a few days.  Little by little, well over 100 of these will surface.  I am as sure of this as I was that colored bordered flashback cards would crash in price to which I won my gentlemen's bet with Dr. Popper.  This of course assumes ANS7 doesn't bomb.....if it bombs and a large supply sits unopened in dealer and Topps hands unsold, then all bets are off although even then, when the supply is dumped cheaply, the hard core collectors will buy it up and crack it all open hence the high confidence in my prediction.
 
I can see the glut coming with this series. 6 months to a year from now cases could end up on ebay for like $150. That's the time to start hunting for sketches. I'm not buying bulk. Brad's not buying bulk. I don't think too many collectors in general are buying bulk this time. It's all on the kids to make or break this series.

Offline BumChex

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« Reply #15 on: August 31, 2010, 06:59:35 AM »
I see the first Jay Lynch sketch just showed up on ebay.

Offline Dr Popper

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« Reply #16 on: August 31, 2010, 07:02:25 AM »
I can see the glut coming with this series. 6 months to a year from now cases could end up on ebay for like $150. That's the time to start hunting for sketches. I'm not buying bulk. Brad's not buying bulk. I don't think too many collectors in general are buying bulk this time. It's all on the kids to make or break this series.

They may have gone a bit overboard with the odds on this series.  It seems to have discouraged some heavy buyers from buying their usual amounts.
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Offline deadpresidentsvisa

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« Reply #17 on: August 31, 2010, 07:33:25 AM »
1 in 1000 or 1100 would be more like it for a sketch card
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Offline BumChex

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« Reply #18 on: August 31, 2010, 07:43:46 AM »
1 in 1000 or 1100 would be more like it for a sketch card
1 in 576 would have been better. 1 sketch per case of 24 boxes. I would buy a hell of a lot more cases knowing I would get a sketch. I realize that is probably not practical due to the length of time it takes to make a sketch.

Offline deadpresidentsvisa

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Re: ANS7 Sketch Review
« Reply #19 on: August 31, 2010, 07:59:51 AM »
1 in 576 would have been better. 1 sketch per case of 24 boxes. I would buy a hell of a lot more cases knowing I would get a sketch. I realize that is probably not practical due to the length of time it takes to make a sketch.
Yes,1 in 2300 is not good,they should be able to do much better than that I mean many people have been spending a good chunk of $$$$$ for years now.
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Offline Plan 9

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Re: ANS7 Sketch Review
« Reply #20 on: August 31, 2010, 10:40:43 AM »
You realize if you were to buy as many packs as the stated odds at retail prices you would spend almost $5,000 and you still might not get a sketch.
You act like the only choices are to pay thousands for cases or pay thousands for the sketch cards.How about just buying a few dozen packs and hope for the best? You're better off going down to 7-11 and buying thousands of dollars of scratch off tickets. I'm sure you have your finances well in hand but still a thousand dollars would be a nice contribution to your kids college fund. 

Offline BumChex

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Re: ANS7 Sketch Review
« Reply #21 on: August 31, 2010, 10:43:00 AM »
You act like the only choices are to pay thousands for cases or pay thousands for the sketch cards.How about just buying a few dozen packs and hope for the best? You're better off going down to 7-11 and buying thousands of dollars of scratch off tickets. I'm sure you have your finances well in hand but still a thousand dollars would be a nice contribution to your kids college fund.  

It's all a part of getting at least one example of each chase card for this series. I have pretty much done that with ANS7 so now it will be time to move on and I sure have a lot less base cards to peddle  ;)

Also, your reasoning is way too practical. I don't know too many Wacky collectors that are practical :D
« Last Edit: August 31, 2010, 10:44:46 AM by BumChex »

Offline Plan 9

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Re: ANS7 Sketch Review
« Reply #22 on: August 31, 2010, 10:54:33 AM »
It's all a part of getting at least one example of each chase card for this series. I have pretty much done that with ANS7 so now it will be time to move on and I sure have a lot less base cards to peddle  ;)

Also, your reasoning is way too practical. I don't know too many Wacky collectors that are practical :D

Me neither.

I have another thought about the ANS7 sketch cards, if I may. Doesn't it seem odd that two of the artists drawing OS sketches had nothing to do with the OS? Shouldn't they be drawing ANS gags? Or more specifically, gags they had a hand in? I guess collectors don't care. Art collectors would. That's why I laugh when Wacky collectors discuss sketch collecting in terms of collecting art. They're not collecting art. They're collecting numbers, sets and variations. Does this ring true to anyone?

Offline slamjim

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Re: ANS7 Sketch Review
« Reply #23 on: August 31, 2010, 11:04:41 AM »
Me neither.

I have another thought about the ANS7 sketch cards, if I may. Doesn't it seem odd that two of the artists drawing OS sketches had nothing to do with the OS? Shouldn't they be drawing ANS gags? Or more specifically, gags they had a hand in? I guess collectors don't care. Art collectors would. That's why I laugh when Wacky collectors discuss sketch collecting in terms of collecting art. They're not collecting art. They're collecting numbers, sets and variations. Does this ring true to anyone?

I don't find this odd at all. If they are WP artists they are part of the historical line. Jay has drawn many WP characters that he didn't have a hand in originating. Jay didn't have anything to do with Blunder Bread for example so that means he couldn't draw a sketch of that?  Art collectors would not have an issue. It's called appropriating and it happens in the fine art world all the time. Warhol, Basquiat,  Lichtenstein, Scharf to name a small few. How about Superman? Only Joe Shuster is allowed to sketch him?  The WP characters transcend the artists.

Offline Plan 9

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Re: ANS7 Sketch Review
« Reply #24 on: August 31, 2010, 12:00:54 PM »
I don't find this odd at all. If they are WP artists they are part of the historical line. Jay has drawn many WP characters that he didn't have a hand in originating. Jay didn't have anything to do with Blunder Bread for example so that means he couldn't draw a sketch of that?  Art collectors would not have an issue. It's called appropriating and it happens in the fine art world all the time. Warhol, Basquiat,  Lichtenstein, Scharf to name a small few. How about Superman? Only Joe Shuster is allowed to sketch him?  The WP characters transcend the artists.
The definition of "appropriation" includes theft and forgery and pretty much any kind of copy catting you can think of so that term is bunk. Even RonZombie would be covered by that term if he started selling his own Wacky sketches. Other artists illustrate Superman comics so it makes sense collectors would want their sketches. Nobody is continuing or re-inventing the OS characters or gags in new works unless you consider the sketches themselves to be the new "works". I don't think anybody would want an Andy Warhol autograph from any artist other than Warhol. But I'm fine with a Jay Lynch Blunderbread because Jay is far too significant a part of the OS to be dismissed for such a technicality. I don't see collectors saying they want a sketch because it's funny or attractive. All they talk about is having one of each artist, one of each character, a set from each series, etc. 

Offline slamjim

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Re: ANS7 Sketch Review
« Reply #25 on: August 31, 2010, 12:43:16 PM »
The definition of "appropriation" includes theft and forgery and pretty much any kind of copy catting you can think of so that term is bunk. Even RonZombie would be covered by that term if he started selling his own Wacky sketches. Other artists illustrate Superman comics so it makes sense collectors would want their sketches. Nobody is continuing or re-inventing the OS characters or gags in new works unless you consider the sketches themselves to be the new "works". I don't think anybody would want an Andy Warhol autograph from any artist other than Warhol. But I'm fine with a Jay Lynch Blunderbread because Jay is far too significant a part of the OS to be dismissed for such a technicality. I don't see collectors saying they want a sketch because it's funny or attractive. All they talk about is having one of each artist, one of each character, a set from each series, etc.  

No, I strongly disagree. There is no theft, no forgery or even copy catting in any of these WP sketches. Topps owns the rights to the characters and the original images. Topps has hired these artists to use these characters and to draw them so no theft. They are hand drawn on new cards with a logo and back clearly stating what they are so no forgery. They are drawn in the unique style of the artists and many times with artistic license and changes to the source image so no copy catting. I have seen Fred's sketches and a large majority of them ARE "continuing or re-inventing" the OS characters in new works. Brent had the OS characters being eaten by a crocodile.

Ronzombie would not be covered by anything as he does not have permission to use copyrighted images for shirts to sell for profit and he is not making a unique artistic statement by taking a Topps owned character, lets say, the Quaker Oats duck and just redrawing it for his shirt to sell. Warhol and other artist have been able to get away with using popular culture images in the same way a political cartoonist can use Obama or GW Bush's images because they are making unique artistic statements. You need look no further than Wackys themselves. If Topps takes the Trix box and reproduce it they are in violation of all kinds of laws. Topps makes Tricks and it's a parody and legal.

We are getting off track of course though. The single simplest thing is Topps can and does hire different artists to do new interpretations of their wholly owned characters in the exact same way DC hires people to work on Superman. I think you need to leave nostalgia out of it and you can't start making exceptions for someone (Jay in this case) which totally torpedoes your reasoning for not wanting to see these types of sketches.

I don't quite see your Warhol autograph thing making any sense since we were taking about drawings not autographs. Of course no one would want a faux Warhol autograph from another artist but I'd bet if Roy Lichtenstein did a drawing or painting of a Warhol work people would want it. Putting what you wrote in Wacky terms you just said that no one would want a Jay Lynch fake Norm Saunders autograph which is true. But everyone would want a Jay Lynch drawing of a Saunders painting. And it already appears that people want a Fred Wheaton drawing of a Norm Saunders painting.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2010, 01:00:37 PM by slamjim »

Offline slamjim

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Re: ANS7 Sketch Review
« Reply #26 on: August 31, 2010, 12:51:37 PM »
Mark, I think your argument about how it would make more sense to have Fred or Brent working on ANS characters works very well if you apply it to this simple thing: Since 90-95% of the sketches will fall into the hands of children (most likely) it would make more sense for THIS series to have done only characters from ANS7 in the sketch cards. A collector set like OLDS it doesn't really matter as the people buying it are older fans and either series (OS or OLDS) characters can work. Of course, they are using OS images as foils in ANS so there is also that.

Offline paste_anyplace

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Re: ANS7 Sketch Review
« Reply #27 on: August 31, 2010, 02:09:26 PM »
Nobody is continuing or re-inventing the OS characters or gags in new works [...]  

There was a trend for a while in the ANS to re-use some of the classic characters in the context of new titles, like the Jail-O prisoner (in an ANS2 Wacky, the name escapes me) and the Quacker Oats duck (in ANS5's Quacker State). They seem to have moved away from that though, I tried to use the Buz bee in a new gag and that got changed.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2010, 02:16:56 PM by paste_anyplace »

Offline paste_anyplace

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Re: ANS7 Sketch Review
« Reply #28 on: August 31, 2010, 02:18:11 PM »
I think Topps asked for the sketches to be based on classic Wackys but I can't recall for sure. I drew a few based on ANS7 titles though. For some reason the "Cutz" title spoke to me so I did three or four of those.

Online RawGoo

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Re: ANS7 Sketch Review
« Reply #29 on: August 31, 2010, 02:47:53 PM »
I think Topps asked for the sketches to be based on classic Wackys but I can't recall for sure. I drew a few based on ANS7 titles though. For some reason the "Cutz" title spoke to me so I did three or four of those.
I don't know the timing on the sketch completion, but considering that they pulled some titles from the set at the last minute, maybe they felt safer with classic sketches than risking having an ANS7 title that wasn't in the set, but had sketches?

Offline Buz

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Re: ANS7 Sketch Review
« Reply #30 on: August 31, 2010, 02:58:21 PM »
I tried to use the Buz bee in a new gag and that got changed.

And a shame that is.
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Offline Dr Popper

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Re: ANS7 Sketch Review
« Reply #31 on: August 31, 2010, 06:19:01 PM »
The sketch cards are only rare as a % of the supply of ANS7 stuff but the pure quantity of sketch cards exceeeds many post card sets.  Doesn't this suggest that if all of the ANS7 sketch cards were to surface, they would be worth LESS than post card sketchs based on pure counts?  Granted it will take much longer and if ANS7 satutates the market resulting in many cases never being opened, then some % of ANS7 sketch cards will never be found but even if 50% of ANS7 is opened, then 150 sketches will surface and that suggests prices of $1000 is insane. 

It's an interesting question.  I think the concensus is 700,000 packs, so 300 total ANS7 sketches, the exact same total amount as Postcard series 6.  With the saturation issue plus the fact that the distribution will create better exposure with ANS7, they should be priced higher, but maybe not significantly higher.  I still think anything over $500.00 is too much at this point, and someone who is patient and isn't picky about the title/artist can probably get one a lot cheaper in a few months. 
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Offline crackedjerk

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Re: ANS7 Sketch Review
« Reply #32 on: August 31, 2010, 07:59:50 PM »
There was a trend for a while in the ANS to re-use some of the classic characters in the context of new titles, like the Jail-O prisoner (in an ANS2 Wacky, the name escapes me) and the Quacker Oats duck (in ANS5's Quacker State). They seem to have moved away from that though, I tried to use the Buz bee in a new gag and that got changed.

I wonder why Topps (or was it the artists themselves?) moved away from that.  I still think Dave's use of the art to Bandache being on Thefty in ANS2 was an awesome tribute that took nothing away from the gag for kids but added considerably to us older folks.

Offline Duznt

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Re: ANS7 Sketch Review
« Reply #33 on: August 31, 2010, 09:59:37 PM »
I wonder why Topps (or was it the artists themselves?) moved away from that.  I still think Dave's use of the art to Bandache being on Thefty in ANS2 was an awesome tribute that took nothing away from the gag for kids but added considerably to us older folks.

Yeah I love when they do that!
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Offline Plan 9

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Re: ANS7 Sketch Review
« Reply #34 on: September 01, 2010, 12:56:49 AM »
You misunderstood what I said and ran with the misunderstanding. Sorry I didn't state my point more clearly. I wasn't saying anyone was stealing. I was saying the definition of "appropriate" is so broad that it includes every possible use of property imaginable, legal or not, creative or not. By "covering" Ron I meant that it defines what Ron would do, not that he's allowed to do it. I misunderstood what you meant about Andy Warhol. I thought you meant his designs have been appropriated by another artist. Now I get that you meant, with the logos and soup cans. He brought something new to it.

With regards to the sketch cards I'm not saying anyone is stealing. I was questioning the logic of ANS artists doing OS sketches. But like you said, if they're bringing a little something new to it then why not.

 

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