Author Topic: WP Forum PSA Thread  (Read 31853 times)

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Offline faustxxx

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Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
« Reply #315 on: February 02, 2021, 01:17:10 PM »
     Anyone looking for these PSA graded stickers?:   67 De-Mented 6 $75, 2nd Blecch 8 $40, 3rd Neveready 8 $40, 4th Grazin' Bran 8 $40, 5th Stiffords 8 $40, 5th Plop Sikle 8 $40, 13th Battle Ball 8 $75   PM me or email me   faustxxx@cox.net

Offline Paul_Maul

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Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
« Reply #316 on: March 01, 2021, 06:25:07 AM »
Itís pretty much over for submitting to PSA for the foreseeable future.

We have gone from specials five years ago with pricing of $5 per card and a 45 day turnaround (often completed much faster) to the current debacle: cheapest pricing of $20 per card (for ďvalueĒ submissions that take six months to finish) and ďregularĒ pricing of $100 per card! Out of control!

Here is the new pricing scheme:


Offline jleonard1967

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Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
« Reply #317 on: March 01, 2021, 09:16:48 AM »
It is priority pricing.  I agree with your assessment,  this is going to hurt registry collectors.  People will still send in PSA lottery cards (Marvel cards and pokeman come to mind).  I hope that the pricing comes down, however if you have a supply of 9 months backlog and it is not stopping, I would also keep raising the price.   It will also open the door to a new company if the quality of the new card is good.  CGC who does comics introduced a new card grading system.  Right now it does mostly pokemon cards, but I would be willing to try other cards.  I do hope the prices level lower but with the modern cards  blowing everything away, i just don't see it.

Offline NationalSpittoon

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Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
« Reply #318 on: March 01, 2021, 10:58:33 AM »
I saw this as well. Maybe if everyone actually stops grading their cards, the correct changes will be made!

Offline bandaches

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Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
« Reply #319 on: March 01, 2021, 02:01:09 PM »
It is priority pricing.  I agree with your assessment,  this is going to hurt registry collectors.  People will still send in PSA lottery cards (Marvel cards and pokeman come to mind).  I hope that the pricing comes down, however if you have a supply of 9 months backlog and it is not stopping, I would also keep raising the price.   It will also open the door to a new company if the quality of the new card is good.  CGC who does comics introduced a new card grading system.  Right now it does mostly pokemon cards, but I would be willing to try other cards.  I do hope the prices level lower but with the modern cards  blowing everything away, i just don't see it.
I think they have gone for a whole new model of high margins and fewer slabs. I doubt their 9 month backlog is the same number of cards being graded as any previous 9 month period.
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Offline Yubum

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Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
« Reply #320 on: March 01, 2021, 02:25:13 PM »
I actually made up a Value submission last week but held off on shipping because there was one more card I decided to add at the last minute. Looks like I won't be adding - or shipping - any cards now.

There can't be any way this works out well for PSA - I would bet this dramatic (double!) increase in pricing not only reduces their submission volume by more than half but also drives many, many of their customers to the competition.

On the value level, no one is going to pay $20 to have, for example, a 1972 hockey, football or baseball card graded when PSA 8 commons regularly sell for that or less. And I can't see many people wanting to pay $100 for a regular submission unless they are confident the card is going to sell for a minimum of $500. SMH.

Offline RawGoo

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Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
« Reply #321 on: March 01, 2021, 02:29:24 PM »
Insanity!!

Offline bandaches

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Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
« Reply #322 on: March 01, 2021, 03:59:12 PM »
I actually made up a Value submission last week but held off on shipping because there was one more card I decided to add at the last minute. Looks like I won't be adding - or shipping - any cards now.

There can't be any way this works out well for PSA - I would bet this dramatic (double!) increase in pricing not only reduces their submission volume by more than half but also drives many, many of their customers to the competition.

On the value level, no one is going to pay $20 to have, for example, a 1972 hockey, football or baseball card graded when PSA 8 commons regularly sell for that or less. And I can't see many people wanting to pay $100 for a regular submission unless they are confident the card is going to sell for a minimum of $500. SMH.
Actually it completely makes sense.  they can't possibly be making any money on $5 grading.  They can get rid of huge overhead in number of graders, go for higher margin on fewer slabs and try to make it look like PSA grading is really premium grading as opposed to now where it is just a massive saturation of cards.  Folks who want the "best collection" are still going to spend the money, watch and see.  I am sure PSA would rather make $100 grading one card than $100 grading 20 cards(plus 20 times the labor cost)
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Offline NationalSpittoon

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Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
« Reply #323 on: March 01, 2021, 04:58:35 PM »
Actually it completely makes sense.  they can't possibly be making any money on $5 grading.  They can get rid of huge overhead in number of graders, go for higher margin on fewer slabs and try to make it look like PSA grading is really premium grading as opposed to now where it is just a massive saturation of cards.  Folks who want the "best collection" are still going to spend the money, watch and see.  I am sure PSA would rather make $100 grading one card than $100 grading 20 cards(plus 20 times the labor cost)

Um, well the 1% are called such for a reason; and the other 99% of us find this not economical so no, I don't see too many of us sending cards in even though we want the "best collection".

Offline bandaches

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Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
« Reply #324 on: March 02, 2021, 06:33:59 AM »
Um, well the 1% are called such for a reason; and the other 99% of us find this not economical so no, I don't see too many of us sending cards in even though we want the "best collection".
Sardonic tone noted, don't shoot the messenger, I am giving you a business case for what PSA is doing.  you know I am not a fan of PSA and qualifiers and half point grades and the fact they are really grading eye appeal and not true centering....  Not for nothing but the average wacky pack collector with average spending is not trying to PSA grade his entire collection.....so 1% varies by discussion.  That collector who is a few cards away from being #1 is going to spend the money, watch and see.  PSA getting $300 from that person for 3 cards is more lucrative to them than getting $300 to grade 60 cards, paying for that much extra labor, and saturating the PSA graded card market.  Now the guy who spent $300 knows the chances his cards stay #1 is higher as the saturation of graded cards comes to a halt...PSA needs to flush out the backlog of cards they are on the hook to grade and move to a new model.
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Offline Yubum

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Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
« Reply #325 on: March 02, 2021, 07:44:52 AM »
Sardonic tone noted, don't shoot the messenger, I am giving you a business case for what PSA is doing.  you know I am not a fan of PSA and qualifiers and half point grades and the fact they are really grading eye appeal and not true centering....  Not for nothing but the average wacky pack collector with average spending is not trying to PSA grade his entire collection.....so 1% varies by discussion.  That collector who is a few cards away from being #1 is going to spend the money, watch and see.  PSA getting $300 from that person for 3 cards is more lucrative to them than getting $300 to grade 60 cards, paying for that much extra labor, and saturating the PSA graded card market.  Now the guy who spent $300 knows the chances his cards stay #1 is higher as the saturation of graded cards comes to a halt...PSA needs to flush out the backlog of cards they are on the hook to grade and move to a new model.

I understand the point you are trying to make, but just to clarify PSA had been charging $12 to grade a common card (from the Wacky era), not $5. The price has now nearly doubled to $20 (though they have lowered the minimum cards submitted under that tier from 20 to 10).

I read online that PSA currently has a backlog of an estimated 9 MILLION cards to grade, with one customer alone submitting more than 400,000 cards. They have hired 125+ new graders to deal with the massive backlog but the pace of submissions has increased exponentially over the last few months and shows no sign of abating. So it sounds like the price increase is intended by PSA as a sort of firebreak to try to slow the firestorm of cards being submitted. Now they will just have to wait to see when the conflagration is finally stopped if it isn't actually their largest customer base they have extinguished instead.

Offline bandaches

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Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
« Reply #326 on: March 02, 2021, 08:46:34 AM »
I understand the point you are trying to make, but just to clarify PSA had been charging $12 to grade a common card (from the Wacky era), not $5. The price has now nearly doubled to $20 (though they have lowered the minimum cards submitted under that tier from 20 to 10).

I read online that PSA currently has a backlog of an estimated 9 MILLION cards to grade, with one customer alone submitting more than 400,000 cards. They have hired 125+ new graders to deal with the massive backlog but the pace of submissions has increased exponentially over the last few months and shows no sign of abating. So it sounds like the price increase is intended by PSA as a sort of firebreak to try to slow the firestorm of cards being submitted. Now they will just have to wait to see when the conflagration is finally stopped if it isn't actually their largest customer base they have extinguished instead.
I was responding to Dave's specific point about $5 deals.  Those deals will NEVER be offered again.  There is no reason for PSA to ever offer that again and they don't care about losing that population, low margin, makes the saturation even worse.  Seems more will join my overall disdain for PSA.
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Offline Liptorn

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Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
« Reply #327 on: March 02, 2021, 04:05:28 PM »
PSA has always had a poor attitude towards customers where
they feel we need them more than they need us.
They couldn't care less if they ever grade another Wacky again
when they have millions of Pokemon, Jordan, Kobe, Lebron cards
to grade at full price.

Offline jeffcaff

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Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
« Reply #328 on: March 02, 2021, 04:36:56 PM »
Easy decision.   Waiting 9 months and $20.00 per card for grading.  I will pass.   Thank you PSA for making my decision for me. 

Offline drono

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Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
« Reply #329 on: March 03, 2021, 03:04:37 AM »
Maybe if everyone actually stops grading their cards

If this happened, wouldn't the world come to an end - not with a bang but a whimper.  Would we now have junk PSA?  I guess I just don't understand the entire PSA craze, just like I don't understand the need for more than one earring in each ear or tattoos all over someone's body.  If this is the end of the world as we know it, I'll feel fine.

Just so you know, that was sarcasm - all but the I'll feel fine.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2021, 03:14:51 AM by drono »

Offline Paul_Maul

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Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
« Reply #330 on: March 03, 2021, 06:04:24 AM »
If this happened, wouldn't the world come to an end - not with a bang but a whimper.  Would we now have junk PSA?  I guess I just don't understand the entire PSA craze, just like I don't understand the need for more than one earring in each ear or tattoos all over someone's body.  If this is the end of the world as we know it, I'll feel fine.

Just so you know, that was sarcasm - all but the I'll feel fine.

There is not much to understand. If you care about having a card in extremely nice condition, PSA offers the most efficient way to obtain that. If you donít care, it is of no use to you.

Offline RawGoo

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Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
« Reply #331 on: March 03, 2021, 06:18:21 AM »
There is not much to understand. If you care about having a card in extremely nice condition, PSA offers the most efficient way to obtain that. If you donít care, it is of no use to you.

I wonder how many really nice raw cards that turn up won't get graded now, even if they are tough to find in high grade condition.

Offline drono

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Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
« Reply #332 on: March 03, 2021, 09:00:11 AM »
There is not much to understand. If you care about having a card in extremely nice condition, PSA offers the most efficient way to obtain that. If you donít care, it is of no use to you.

That part I understand.  What I don't understand is why it's so crazy now that there is a 9 million card backlog.  I would be willing to bet that the number of collectors who really care is miniscule compared to just the number of cards that are waiting to be graded.  This was supposed to be a hobby - something that you do in your spare time to have fun.  It's become a very ugly business.  It hasn't affected Wacky Packages as much because we are in a niche market. 

The sports card world has gotten crazy with PSA fever.  I just sold a couple of unopened boxes of 1989 Low Number Upper Deck Baseball to a friend.  He opened every pack to get one Ken Griffey, Jr. rookie to slab.  He doesn't care about any of the other 1,079 cards in the box.  That's what I don't understand.  Maybe I'm just too old school.

Offline Paul_Maul

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Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
« Reply #333 on: March 03, 2021, 09:37:26 AM »
That part I understand.  What I don't understand is why it's so crazy now that there is a 9 million card backlog.  I would be willing to bet that the number of collectors who really care is miniscule compared to just the number of cards that are waiting to be graded.  This was supposed to be a hobby - something that you do in your spare time to have fun.  It's become a very ugly business.  It hasn't affected Wacky Packages as much because we are in a niche market. 

The sports card world has gotten crazy with PSA fever.  I just sold a couple of unopened boxes of 1989 Low Number Upper Deck Baseball to a friend.  He opened every pack to get one Ken Griffey, Jr. rookie to slab.  He doesn't care about any of the other 1,079 cards in the box.  That's what I don't understand.  Maybe I'm just too old school.

Unfortunately, sports cards (particularly modern ones) are in the midst of a speculative frenzy due to very deep pocketed investors jumping in. Thatís what is fueling a lot of the grading submissions. Iím afraid that will end as that usually does, with casual collectors alienated and investors/speculators moving on to the next big thing.

Offline Yubum

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Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
« Reply #334 on: March 03, 2021, 10:44:07 AM »
That part I understand.  What I don't understand is why it's so crazy now that there is a 9 million card backlog.  I would be willing to bet that the number of collectors who really care is miniscule compared to just the number of cards that are waiting to be graded.  This was supposed to be a hobby - something that you do in your spare time to have fun.  It's become a very ugly business.  It hasn't affected Wacky Packages as much because we are in a niche market. 

The sports card world has gotten crazy with PSA fever.  I just sold a couple of unopened boxes of 1989 Low Number Upper Deck Baseball to a friend.  He opened every pack to get one Ken Griffey, Jr. rookie to slab.  He doesn't care about any of the other 1,079 cards in the box.  That's what I don't understand.  Maybe I'm just too old school.

PSA has been hijacked by a horde of speculators who see unopened packs of sports cards as a lottery ticket, not as something to collect. And, honestly, the card companies have become accomplices (I believe Panini sells their current football packs - with four cards inside - for $125 per pack!). These gamblers buy packs to rip, ship and flip them as soon as they return from PSA. This is as big a bubble as tulip mania, and IMO much more dangerous for the hobby than the bubble in the 1990s. Kids caught up in the frenzy are going to get burned and will swear off cards, leaving just the old school guys once again.


Offline Yubum

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Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
« Reply #335 on: March 03, 2021, 10:47:24 AM »
I wonder how many really nice raw cards that turn up won't get graded now, even if they are tough to find in high grade condition.

Well, I know it won't bankrupt PSA, but I had nine nice NM/NM+ 15th series cards I was ready to grade (as part of a 20 card Value submission) that I now won't be. At $12 a card I was willing to risk my grading being off and having one or all come back PSA 7, but not at $20 per card (plus shipping).

Offline jleonard1967

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Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
« Reply #336 on: March 03, 2021, 11:03:13 AM »
Save them, there might be in the future monthly specials that will bring the price down.

Offline NationalSpittoon

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Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
« Reply #337 on: March 03, 2021, 11:52:20 AM »
Well, I know it won't bankrupt PSA, but I had nine nice NM/NM+ 15th series cards I was ready to grade (as part of a 20 card Value submission) that I now won't be. At $12 a card I was willing to risk my grading being off and having one or all come back PSA 7, but not at $20 per card (plus shipping).

Iíd just save them, making sure all were in penny sleeves and toploaders. Take solace in those cards and donít let them go for the 6+ months that it will take. I set aside ten cards from my personal collection that Iíd send in, but Iím wanting to less and less as the days go on.

Offline bandaches

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Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
« Reply #338 on: March 03, 2021, 12:14:19 PM »
There is not much to understand. If you care about having a card in extremely nice condition, PSA offers the most efficient way to obtain that. If you donít care, it is of no use to you.
How is PSA more efficient when your eye is far more discerning than PSA graders?
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Offline RawGoo

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Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
« Reply #339 on: March 03, 2021, 12:31:16 PM »
PSA has been hijacked by a horde of speculators who see unopened packs of sports cards as a lottery ticket, not as something to collect. And, honestly, the card companies have become accomplices (I believe Panini sells their current football packs - with four cards inside - for $125 per pack!). These gamblers buy packs to rip, ship and flip them as soon as they return from PSA. This is as big a bubble as tulip mania, and IMO much more dangerous for the hobby than the bubble in the 1990s. Kids caught up in the frenzy are going to get burned and will swear off cards, leaving just the old school guys once again.

I think a lot of people are submitting mass quantities of brand new cards, like Topps Now stuff, to get a Gem Mint 10 grade.  That I just don't get.  It's new, was never in a pack, and was shipped in a sleeve!  Why not just keep it that way?

Offline drono

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Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
« Reply #340 on: March 03, 2021, 12:48:28 PM »
I think a lot of people are submitting mass quantities of brand new cards, like Topps Now stuff, to get a Gem Mint 10 grade.  That I just don't get.  It's new, was never in a pack, and was shipped in a sleeve!  Why not just keep it that way?

Even getting the older stuff slabbed doesn't always make sense unless it's super rare and you want to authenticate it.  Is the joke on a Wacky Package funnier because the sticker is well centered and has no dinged corners or has been graded a 9 or 10?  Do we collect for the enjoyment of what's in the product or do we collect as an investment?  I do the former.  Earlier in life I did the latter, but now I just keep what I like and don't worry about anything else.

How is PSA more efficient when your eye is far more discerning than PSA graders?

I agree with you Ernie.  What I like and will put in my collection is only important to my eyes, not some grader's.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2021, 12:51:05 PM by drono »

Offline Paul_Maul

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Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
« Reply #341 on: March 03, 2021, 01:17:58 PM »
How is PSA more efficient when your eye is far more discerning than PSA graders?

Because trying to buy raw PSA 9 quality cards on eBay is impossible. Yes, in person, where I can examine them carefully, I am happy to buy raw cards (as long as they are not valuable enough to have been trimmed/recolored). Getting them graded in that case is just a fun collecting exercise that happens to enhanace their value.

Offline Paul_Maul

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Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
« Reply #342 on: March 03, 2021, 03:22:48 PM »
Even getting the older stuff slabbed doesn't always make sense unless it's super rare and you want to authenticate it.  Is the joke on a Wacky Package funnier because the sticker is well centered and has no dinged corners or has been graded a 9 or 10?  Do we collect for the enjoyment of what's in the product or do we collect as an investment?  I do the former.  Earlier in life I did the latter, but now I just keep what I like and don't worry about anything else.

Liking items to be in nice condition does not necessarily mean one is collecting for investment.

Offline RawGoo

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Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
« Reply #343 on: March 03, 2021, 04:19:04 PM »
Liking items to be in nice condition does not necessarily mean one is collecting for investment.

Agreed!

Offline bandaches

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Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
« Reply #344 on: March 04, 2021, 06:57:22 AM »
Agreed!
but...you don't need PSA to define nice condition....so investment value is of course part of it.  My keeper collection is super nice and meets my eye appeal.  Why on earth would I need to have them all slabbed by PSA?  the ONLY reason I would do that is resale investment value.  PSA is not any smarter about what I like than me..... and we can see PSA is grading eye appeal, not true card centering.
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Offline bandaches

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Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
« Reply #345 on: March 04, 2021, 12:37:15 PM »
so of course I buy another collection(series 1-15) and the white backs in series 2, 14 and 15 are as nice and white and pristine as any I have ever seen.  I can almost smell gum these seem so fresh.  These cards clearly stayed with one owner and stored away.  The only issue is some have the rubber band feel along the edge like at first the owner rubber banded them before sticking the sets in plastic bags by set.  PSA candidates that will never see the light of day with PSA.....
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Offline NationalSpittoon

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Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
« Reply #346 on: March 04, 2021, 01:08:50 PM »
but...you don't need PSA to define nice condition....so investment value is of course part of it.  My keeper collection is super nice and meets my eye appeal.  Why on earth would I need to have them all slabbed by PSA?  the ONLY reason I would do that is resale investment value.  PSA is not any smarter about what I like than me..... and we can see PSA is grading eye appeal, not true card centering.

The only way to buy right now is on eBay because thereís no shows, and most people take their 144p Polaroid images and upload them for us to see. At that point, buying them is impotent because I have no clue what Iím getting into. I have a better indication of grade when buying a slabbed card, and from there I will go further with my discretion to determine what Iím buying. I also like the lowkey competition aspect of PSA, so thatís something else.

Offline NationalSpittoon

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Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
« Reply #347 on: March 04, 2021, 01:15:36 PM »
Speaking of...



Offline jleonard1967

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Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
« Reply #348 on: March 04, 2021, 03:41:16 PM »

Offline ToadallyDude

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Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
« Reply #349 on: March 24, 2021, 12:23:12 PM »
so of course I buy another collection(series 1-15) and the white backs in series 2, 14 and 15 are as nice and white and pristine as any I have ever seen.  I can almost smell gum these seem so fresh.  These cards clearly stayed with one owner and stored away.  The only issue is some have the rubber band feel along the edge like at first the owner rubber banded them before sticking the sets in plastic bags by set.  PSA candidates that will never see the light of day with PSA.....

I commend you, my old friend, on your resolve not to PSA.  If everything in the world got "slabbed", we'd never actually handle anything anymore.  Trading cards aren't so bad as you can still appreciate the full front and back... but comic books don't make any sense to slab unless they're miraculous 10's that you'd never even touch with gloves, as it just reduces them to "covers" rather than books.  Seems to me the only thing worth paying to get authenticated is autographs, but then again, it's still just someone's opinion. 

Can you image what we'd all have said as kids if some dude in a suit popped out of the ice-cream truck right after we unwrapped a pristine 4th series pack and snatched our "Bum Chex" out of our hands, charging us $20 to put it in a plastic box before we could add it to our rubberbanded stack and pencil it in on the checklist?  I'm thinking slingshot to the groin with a half-eaten 'gob-stopper'.

 

anything