Author Topic: WP Forum PSA Thread  (Read 26060 times)

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Offline bandaches

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Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
« Reply #245 on: December 04, 2020, 02:02:35 PM »
Last two recent acquisitions... (had trouble getting good images)


that is a super sweet Mustard Charge!
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Offline NationalSpittoon

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Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
« Reply #246 on: December 05, 2020, 08:50:52 AM »
You can request no qualifiers and the card will lower two grades. So, the PSA 9 (OC) cards are essentially 7ís. Those cards might have other issues, who knows, but Iím not here saying PSA is consistent on these entirely.

And, thanks. The Mustard Charge is nicely centered, really like it. I only wish it was glossy.

Offline Paul_Maul

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Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
« Reply #247 on: December 05, 2020, 09:52:21 AM »
You can request no qualifiers and the card will lower two grades. So, the PSA 9 (OC) cards are essentially 7ís. Those cards might have other issues, who knows, but Iím not here saying PSA is consistent on these entirely.

And, thanks. The Mustard Charge is nicely centered, really like it. I only wish it was glossy.

4th glossies arenít very common unfortunately. I think I only had two or three in my pre-PSA keeper set as opposed to the 5ths which I think were the majority in my set. And I donít think Iíve ever owned a single 6th glossy.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2020, 09:53:53 AM by Paul_Maul »

Offline bandaches

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Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
« Reply #248 on: December 05, 2020, 10:39:53 AM »
You can request no qualifiers and the card will lower two grades. So, the PSA 9 (OC) cards are essentially 7ís. Those cards might have other issues, who knows, but Iím not here saying PSA is consistent on these entirely.

And, thanks. The Mustard Charge is nicely centered, really like it. I only wish it was glossy.
I wouldn't swear the glossy, so many mustard charges look awful, yours is awesome!  I wonder why July of 1975 was picked as the expiration date.
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Offline bandaches

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Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
« Reply #249 on: December 05, 2020, 10:43:08 AM »
You can request no qualifiers and the card will lower two grades. So, the PSA 9 (OC) cards are essentially 7ís. Those cards might have other issues, who knows, but Iím not here saying PSA is consistent on these entirely.

And, thanks. The Mustard Charge is nicely centered, really like it. I only wish it was glossy.
Clearly part of the reason your Cover Ghould was not higher than 8 is the centering so this could have been a PSA 10 o/c?  Hopefully you are seeing why PSA grading especially around centering is a charade.  When does centering drop a card one grade and when does it fall into o/c?
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Offline bandaches

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Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
« Reply #250 on: December 05, 2020, 10:48:18 AM »
also what is up with the half grades?  PSA 6.5?  Really? 
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Offline bigtomi

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Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
« Reply #251 on: December 05, 2020, 01:41:13 PM »
also what is up with the half grades?  PSA 6.5?  Really?
Grader was named Charlie Brown...wishy-washy.  Or was just a male: couldn't commit to 6 nor 7.  lol

Offline jleonard1967

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Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
« Reply #252 on: December 05, 2020, 10:10:11 PM »
Clearly part of the reason your Cover Ghould was not higher than 8 is the centering so this could have been a PSA 10 o/c?  Hopefully you are seeing why PSA grading especially around centering is a charade.  When does centering drop a card one grade and when does it fall into o/c?
There can be a 9(OC) but not a 10 (OC)

Offline bandaches

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Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
« Reply #253 on: December 06, 2020, 04:18:15 AM »
There can be a 9(OC) but not a 10 (OC)
That's crazy!   A card can be a perfect 9 except where centering is removed from the grade and instead is indicated by o/c
 but can't be a perfect 10 in the same manner?
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Offline jleonard1967

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Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
« Reply #254 on: December 06, 2020, 09:37:54 PM »
That's crazy!   A card can be a perfect 9 except where centering is removed from the grade and instead is indicated by o/c
 but can't be a perfect 10 in the same manner?
I think to get a 10 can have no more than 55/45  (75/25 reverse) a 9 is 60/40 to 65/35 (90 /10 reverse)
(OC) (off center) When the centering of the card falls below the Minimum standards for that grade will be designated "OC" PSA determines centering by comparing the measurements of the borders from left to right and top to bottom.  The. centering is designated as the percent of the difference to the most off center part of the card.  A 5% leeway is given to the front centering minimum standards for cards which grade NM 7 or better.  For example, a card which meets all of the other requirements for PSA MINT 9 and measures 60/40 off center on the front automatically meets the requirements for Mint 9.  If a card meets all of the other requirements for PSA MINT 9 and measures 65/35 off center on the front, it may be deemed to meet the PSA front centering for Mint 9 if the eye appeal of card is good.  (copied word for word from PSA)
so how I read it, if it is within the 5% tolerance you will get the (OC) designation if all other aspects are nice.  Or one grade lower with no designation?

Offline bandaches

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Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
« Reply #255 on: December 06, 2020, 09:54:35 PM »
I think to get a 10 can have no more than 55/45  (75/25 reverse) a 9 is 60/40 to 65/35 (90 /10 reverse)
(OC) (off center) When the centering of the card falls below the Minimum standards for that grade will be designated "OC" PSA determines centering by comparing the measurements of the borders from left to right and top to bottom.  The. centering is designated as the percent of the difference to the most off center part of the card.  A 5% leeway is given to the front centering minimum standards for cards which grade NM 7 or better.  For example, a card which meets all of the other requirements for PSA MINT 9 and measures 60/40 off center on the front automatically meets the requirements for Mint 9.  If a card meets all of the other requirements for PSA MINT 9 and measures 65/35 off center on the front, it may be deemed to meet the PSA front centering for Mint 9 if the eye appeal of card is good.  (copied word for word from PSA)
so how I read it, if it is within the 5% tolerance you will get the (OC) designation if all other aspects are nice.  Or one grade lower with no designation?
This is completely crazy and random either the centering meets the requirements for PSA9 or it doesn't.  The whole qualifier thing is just a gimmick just like 1/2 point grades, PSA needs to rid both.  PSA lost its way and now is owned by a private collector who is clearly going to rig the setup based on his collecting needs.  Separation of powers should be the rule here and a grading company should be separated from collecting but since this is not truly a regulatory task such as financial auditing, there really are no rules, it is purely capitalism. 
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Offline jleonard1967

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Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
« Reply #256 on: December 07, 2020, 06:05:22 AM »
The Main business at collectors universe is PCGS.  The coin division is the main company.  PSA  came later to the table.  Right now the board of directors are mostly coin collectors.  PCGS in its field is rated one of the top grading companies.  I truly do not think that going private is going to set it up for rampant fraud.  700 million is a lot to spend just to get better grades on a card.  Without the trust of the people (the collectors) you have no company.  I truly feel that the new ownership will take collectors universe to a new level and then they will take it public again.  Being private allows the company to grow without having to answer to shareholders.  Therefore the 700 million invested could go to grow the company and then take it back public (for at least 100 percent profit for the main buyer) or you can take the 700 million and flush it down the toilet and give yourself a few good grades and then unload them on the public.   With that scenario there are too many people looking for a reason to rip on a company.  If a card is an 8 and you put it in a 10 holder, you are opening yourself up to the same thing Becket Grading had to shed with its BGGS division.  Joe Orlando who ran PSA until he was promoted to president of collectors universe.  He is a collector and you don't hear about him selling un substantiated cards.  The only problem that we have heard about is the PWCC one.  I am pretty sure that it was not the company but. a few individuals.  Any way in that exposure both companies had to spend more in damage control than what was made in altering cards.  (also the FBI was involved because of money across state lines, so there are repercussions  to outright fraud.  However it all goes back to personal opinion.  Not every collector has the knowledge that you have and can look at a card to get the final grade.  Most people say their cards are mint when you can see the worlds in the corners and such. (just look at descriptions on eBay). Grading is an excepted leveler that allows the card to be graded by a TRUSTED (key word) company.  Which intern earns the public trust and can be monitored more easily.  They have more business than they can handle right now.  That is why there  is long wait times and cost per card is going up.  All at the same time they are hiring more people to ramp up for the influx.  Becket grading is the only other company (which is private) that comes close to values per card graded overall.  There is a long wait time at Beckett grading,  the wait time at SGC is not as long, however the values of a SGC card are not as high as PSA.  If you take all three companies and just the card divisions take the same card, lets a 1953 Mantel in vg 3.  PSA would be worth the most filled by a couple of hundred less Becket then a little bit less SGC.  This is because of the trust the public has in your product.  Going back to the top point 700 million will not be worth having a few more 10's in a collection.   

Offline bandaches

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Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
« Reply #257 on: December 07, 2020, 07:32:17 AM »
The Main business at collectors universe is PCGS.  The coin division is the main company.  PSA  came later to the table.  Right now the board of directors are mostly coin collectors.  PCGS in its field is rated one of the top grading companies.  I truly do not think that going private is going to set it up for rampant fraud.  700 million is a lot to spend just to get better grades on a card.  Without the trust of the people (the collectors) you have no company.  I truly feel that the new ownership will take collectors universe to a new level and then they will take it public again.  Being private allows the company to grow without having to answer to shareholders.  Therefore the 700 million invested could go to grow the company and then take it back public (for at least 100 percent profit for the main buyer) or you can take the 700 million and flush it down the toilet and give yourself a few good grades and then unload them on the public.   With that scenario there are too many people looking for a reason to rip on a company.  If a card is an 8 and you put it in a 10 holder, you are opening yourself up to the same thing Becket Grading had to shed with its BGGS division.  Joe Orlando who ran PSA until he was promoted to president of collectors universe.  He is a collector and you don't hear about him selling un substantiated cards.  The only problem that we have heard about is the PWCC one.  I am pretty sure that it was not the company but. a few individuals.  Any way in that exposure both companies had to spend more in damage control than what was made in altering cards.  (also the FBI was involved because of money across state lines, so there are repercussions  to outright fraud.  However it all goes back to personal opinion.  Not every collector has the knowledge that you have and can look at a card to get the final grade.  Most people say their cards are mint when you can see the worlds in the corners and such. (just look at descriptions on eBay). Grading is an excepted leveler that allows the card to be graded by a TRUSTED (key word) company.  Which intern earns the public trust and can be monitored more easily.  They have more business than they can handle right now.  That is why there  is long wait times and cost per card is going up.  All at the same time they are hiring more people to ramp up for the influx.  Becket grading is the only other company (which is private) that comes close to values per card graded overall.  There is a long wait time at Beckett grading,  the wait time at SGC is not as long, however the values of a SGC card are not as high as PSA.  If you take all three companies and just the card divisions take the same card, lets a 1953 Mantel in vg 3.  PSA would be worth the most filled by a couple of hundred less Becket then a little bit less SGC.  This is because of the trust the public has in your product.  Going back to the top point 700 million will not be worth having a few more 10's in a collection.   
fair points for sure, he didn't drop $700 million only for his collection, he will still reap the rewards of the PSA Business itself but as you pointed out fraud exists and as a private company, there will be fewer eyes on them, I don't see that as upside.  He grossly overpaid for the business as the stock price went way ahead of itself.  My points about randomness of o/c qualfier and decimal grades hold true, mark my words, it will hurt them if they continue the charade with those.  Anytime you need a whole discussion to explain the grading process making it look more subjective and random than it already is, will destroy its main purpose.  Crispness in rules, conciseness in grades, consistent execution should be the only path.  Whichever grading company gets closest to that will win.  Hard to be 100% perfect in them all but PSA is trending away from it from what I see in wackys.
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Offline jleonard1967

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Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
« Reply #258 on: December 07, 2020, 09:01:25 AM »
I agree with alot you mentioned and I think we said the same things (just in different ways. ). Collectors universe was sold for a 30% premium over the strike price when they accepted the offer.  regardless of what the price is now it will convert to the agreed upon price.  the closer it gets to the agreed upon price the more likely the deal will go thru.  I personally have tried all 3 grading companies.  I dislike SGC, but for pre war vintage they are the best, I tolerate Beckets, and for modern autographs and reg cards they are the best, but over all PSA holds the most money per transaction and the most clout in the card world.  (SGC is also in to coins and paper money like Collectors universe is)

Offline faustxxx

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Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
« Reply #259 on: December 09, 2020, 02:09:04 PM »
     I am about to send my 8 unused 1973 tattoos to be graded,  I am looking to buy anyone else's that may exist. Please PM me if you or someone you know has these. Matt.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2020, 02:27:48 AM by faustxxx »

Offline jleonard1967

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Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
« Reply #260 on: December 09, 2020, 09:07:49 PM »
     I am about to send my 8 proof 1973 tattoos to be graded,  I am looking to buy anyone else's that may exist. Please PM me if you or someone you know has these. Matt.
I would check with probstien.  He seems to have the market cornered on "proof" items from Topps.  I would contact PSA first to see if the will even grade "proof" items, before you send.


Offline bandaches

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Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
« Reply #261 on: December 09, 2020, 09:47:24 PM »
     I am about to send my 8 proof 1973 tattoos to be graded,  I am looking to buy anyone else's that may exist. Please PM me if you or someone you know has these. Matt.
why would you grade a proof item?  Wouldn't there only be one proof per item therefore there is no grading war on who's is the best?
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Offline faustxxx

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Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
« Reply #262 on: December 10, 2020, 02:29:10 AM »
   I misspoke, these are not the proofs only never used or wrapped around the gum.

Offline bandaches

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Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
« Reply #263 on: December 10, 2020, 01:40:56 PM »
   I misspoke, these are not the proofs only never used or wrapped around the gum.
Gotcha well there are loads of those in the wild so you should get some hits when you adjust your ask and remove the word "proof".
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Offline NationalSpittoon

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Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
« Reply #264 on: December 10, 2020, 04:50:46 PM »
Thatís an odd niche to submit. Unopened Tattoos ďPacksĒ. Have people subbed these before? I am not even sure. I have one, albeit itís just in my personal collection. I actually got it for free at an Allentown show a couple years back or so.

Offline drono

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Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
« Reply #265 on: December 18, 2020, 10:26:36 AM »
Anyone who wants to get Comic Books graded, Beckett has a 50% off sale through Christmas day, just use code GRADING50.

https://www.cbcscomics.com/?utm_source=promotion&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=CBCS_Christmas2020_Promo

Offline NationalSpittoon

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Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
« Reply #266 on: January 04, 2021, 07:17:22 AM »
Got these two for Christmas...


Offline faustxxx

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Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
« Reply #267 on: January 04, 2021, 08:15:15 AM »
Got these two for Christmas...


  Are you building a 2nd series set of 8's? or just PSA graded in general?  Which are you missing?  Matt.

Offline NationalSpittoon

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Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
« Reply #268 on: January 04, 2021, 08:38:07 AM »
  Are you building a 2nd series set of 8's? or just PSA graded in general?  Which are you missing?  Matt.

I am mostly buying 5th Series PSA 8's to complete that set, but have gotten a few odds and ends from other series.

Offline NationalSpittoon

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Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
« Reply #269 on: January 07, 2021, 09:26:41 AM »
An upgrade. Not glossy unfortunately, but the centering is very nice for this title!


Offline Paul_Maul

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Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
« Reply #270 on: January 07, 2021, 09:31:48 AM »
An upgrade. Not glossy unfortunately, but the centering is very nice for this title!



That centering really is good. Mine is a glossy 8, but the centering is much worse.

Offline NationalSpittoon

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Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
« Reply #271 on: January 07, 2021, 10:47:45 AM »
That centering really is good. Mine is a glossy 8, but the centering is much worse.

Had the toning been worse, I probably would not have gone for it. The centering is near if not perfect though, so the light toning doesn't bother me too much. I think the lightly-touched corners are the only thing keeping this from being the second PSA 9.

Offline ToadallyDude

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Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
« Reply #272 on: January 07, 2021, 09:36:59 PM »
4th glossies arenít very common unfortunately. I think I only had two or three in my pre-PSA keeper set as opposed to the 5ths which I think were the majority in my set. And I donít think Iíve ever owned a single 6th glossy.

I should pull out my 1-16 and check to see if I still have some of the 4th & 6th glossies I used to have in there.  I let my friend raid my set to grade a bunch of stuff for eBay years ago as I really never cared about condition once it got above EX+ for my keeper set.  But I did really want to go after a complete 4th, 5th, and 6th glossy set at one point.  So, I used to pull those aside when I found them in lots.  One problem with Glossies, though, unfortunately, is that they tended to be very unforgiving of the slightest of bends, creases, and track-marks.  Because of the gloss, they'd stand right out immediately.  But there's nothing like seeing those dingy 4/5/6 titles in their intended BRIGHT colors!  I know I had some 4th and 6th, but never a glossy Bum/Choke, or Runaway.  I can't be certain about Shotwheels.  I seem to remember at least seeing one once.  A glossy run of 4-5-6 would probably be rarer than a run of 1-2 Ludlow & 3 White, I'd think.  But just not as in-demand. 

Might be cool to get a registry going of known Glossy titles, though, to see if it's even possible.  Anyone ever do that?

Offline Paul_Maul

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Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
« Reply #273 on: January 08, 2021, 05:07:00 PM »
I know I had some 4th and 6th, but never a glossy Bum/Choke, or Runaway.  I can't be certain about Shotwheels.  I seem to remember at least seeing one once.  A glossy run of 4-5-6 would probably be rarer than a run of 1-2 Ludlow & 3 White, I'd think.  But just not as in-demand. 


Iím pretty sure glossy versions of Bum and Choke do not exist. The glossy stock was likely introduced after they were pulled,  then used in earnest for the 5th series, and finished up at the very beginning of the 6th.

Offline ToadallyDude

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Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
« Reply #274 on: January 10, 2021, 02:26:15 PM »
That's what I figured as well.  There's no way of knowing for sure, though, if the timelines crossed.  I do know I had a glossy Windhex at one point, though.  I think the 2 titles I'd want most as a glossy would be "Runaway" & "Shotwheels".  Unfortunately, I first learned to appreciate the glossies right after trading off all the extras from a massive stack of 4-8 I'd bought in bulk, and selling off my 3rd run of 1-16 in the Wrapper.  I probably could have put together a near-complete 5th Glossy set from all that I'd think, and had a good tally of 4th & 6th titles for a database.  But that was 2 decades+ ago.  I would think Greg and/or Ernie would have probably accumulated enough 4,5,6 singles over the years to have the best Glossy sets around. 

Offline Paul_Maul

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Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
« Reply #275 on: January 10, 2021, 02:32:43 PM »
I bought three glossy 5th sets at the Philly show a few years ago. Completing a 5th glossy set should be easy, the other two not so much.

Offline ToadallyDude

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Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
« Reply #276 on: January 10, 2021, 02:39:04 PM »
I bought three glossy 5th sets at the Philly show a few years ago. Completing a 5th glossy set should be easy, the other two not so much.

That's so cool.  What kind of premium did they want for them over a regular set?  Seems like PSA 9/10 glossies would look really nice, but I wonder if PSA would make the distinction as an official variant.

Offline Paul_Maul

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Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
« Reply #277 on: January 10, 2021, 03:53:36 PM »
Scott, there was no premium. They were $35 per set. Almost all had uniform asterisks, so I imagine they were from a wax box that had been opened at some point, as they were mostly very high grade. It was a great find for me because up to that point it was not a series I had a lot of success with. And yes, they do look nice as PSA 9s!











« Last Edit: January 10, 2021, 04:09:22 PM by Paul_Maul »

Offline jleonard1967

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Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
« Reply #278 on: January 10, 2021, 08:48:19 PM »
Scott, there was no premium. They were $35 per set. Almost all had uniform asterisks, so I imagine they were from a wax box that had been opened at some point, as they were mostly very high grade. It was a great find for me because up to that point it was not a series I had a lot of success with. And yes, they do look nice as PSA 9s!

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Nice no, better word would be Drool worthy :]

Offline RawGoo

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Re: WP Forum PSA Thread
« Reply #279 on: January 10, 2021, 09:31:29 PM »
Nice no, better word would be Drool worthy :]

Agreed!!

 

anything