Author Topic: possible shill bidding seller  (Read 2238 times)

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Offline exorcist

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possible shill bidding seller
« on: August 15, 2016, 02:07:23 PM »
Anyone get the feeling that a certain ebay seller is shill bidding?  I hate to call someone out without solid proof but i notice all his auctions get bid higher than the average auctions for the same item, on a consistent basis. 

Offline NationalSpittoon

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Re: possible shill bidding seller
« Reply #1 on: August 15, 2016, 02:29:04 PM »
I have seen a couple of people like this at various times, but don't remember their names.

Offline Paul_Maul

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Re: possible shill bidding seller
« Reply #2 on: August 15, 2016, 02:42:07 PM »
Anyone get the feeling that a certain ebay seller is shill bidding?  I hate to call someone out without solid proof but i notice all his auctions get bid higher than the average auctions for the same item, on a consistent basis.

I don't know who you're referring to, but there is a certain consignment seller on eBay that has a problem with shilling. The person I am referring to does not shill his own auctions, rather he turns a blind eye to his consignors shilling the auctions. With the seller I'm talking about, there is irrefutable evidence that some of his auctions are being shilled, but no steps have been taken to stop it as far as I know. And I'm not talking about someone who specializes in wackys.

That said, just because a seller's items bring higher prices doesn't mean shilling is happening. Sometimes buyers just have more confidence in a certain seller. PWCC springs to mind in this category, they are very proactive against shilling and have cooperated with eBay to try to stop it.
They just realize higher prices because they have inspired confidence and enthusiasm in the marketplace.

Offline exorcist

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Re: possible shill bidding seller
« Reply #3 on: August 16, 2016, 10:18:58 AM »
Looks like this topic has already been discussed about the exact individual awhile ago.  I guess somethings never change :sad:

Offline Tom Keen

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Re: possible shill bidding seller
« Reply #4 on: August 17, 2016, 02:55:11 PM »
I don't know who you're referring to, but there is a certain consignment seller on eBay that has a problem with shilling. The person I am referring to does not shill his own auctions, rather he turns a blind eye to his consignors shilling the auctions. With the seller I'm talking about, there is irrefutable evidence that some of his auctions are being shilled, but no steps have been taken to stop it as far as I know. And I'm not talking about someone who specializes in wackys.

That said, just because a seller's items bring higher prices doesn't mean shilling is happening. Sometimes buyers just have more confidence in a certain seller. PWCC springs to mind in this category, they are very proactive against shilling and have cooperated with eBay to try to stop it.
They just realize higher prices because they have inspired confidence and enthusiasm in the marketplace.
Who is the consignment dealer you are referring to?

Offline Tom Keen

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Re: possible shill bidding seller
« Reply #5 on: August 17, 2016, 02:55:52 PM »
Looks like this topic has already been discussed about the exact individual awhile ago.  I guess somethings never change :sad:
Who are you referring to?

Offline Paul_Maul

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Re: possible shill bidding seller
« Reply #6 on: August 17, 2016, 05:16:24 PM »
Who is the consignment dealer you are referring to?

PM sent.

Offline exorcist

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Re: possible shill bidding seller
« Reply #7 on: August 17, 2016, 05:23:17 PM »
Who are you referring to?
Pm sent Tom

Offline lucidjc

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Re: possible shill bidding seller
« Reply #8 on: August 17, 2016, 08:43:07 PM »
Why so private? Shouldn't we all know who's being naughty?

If I remember a while back you had a problem with someone from the forum, I believe that has never been shored up either...


Jim

Offline exorcist

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Re: possible shill bidding seller
« Reply #9 on: August 18, 2016, 02:21:00 PM »
Why so private? Shouldn't we all know who's being naughty?

If I remember a while back you had a problem with someone from the forum, I believe that has never been shored up either...


Jim
lol, i love it.   I personally really have no proof.  I was looking for thoughts or experiences, and some have shared.

Offline All-Brain

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Re: possible shill bidding seller
« Reply #10 on: August 18, 2016, 07:18:12 PM »
This topic always gets me fired up. I was just outbid on a very obscure item and I could be way of so I do not ever pursue it but I find it hard to believe the seller didn't have his auction shilled. I suppose its possible another wacky collector had found it also but its doubtful.
Plus the guy that outbid me has his feedback set to private so there is no real way to see if he frequently bids on this guys items or not.
Oh well, just rambling.

I take that back. I was able to see his bidding history. It seems he has been bidding a lot in this category so it seems he just was willing to spend more than me for this.......and thats still amazing to me but oh well lol.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2016, 07:22:59 PM by All-Brain »

Offline exorcist

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Re: possible shill bidding seller
« Reply #11 on: August 19, 2016, 01:14:06 PM »
It gets me fired up too!  I want to win or lose an auction fairly.  When someone messes with another person's money, they deserve legal or physical punishment.

Offline Paul_Maul

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Re: possible shill bidding seller
« Reply #12 on: August 19, 2016, 01:36:18 PM »
There's a much more troubling aspect to this issue. Consider the following scenario.

I consign a valuable, high profile card to one of the major eBay consignment sellers. During the course of the auction the card is bid up, and then certain clowns start running the auction up, then retracting bids. This suspicious activity scares away sincere bidders, and other bids may be withdrawn. Now I'm stuck with a tainted auction. Do I ask the seller to pull it? That's unfair to other sincere bidders participating. What a mess.

In fact this very scenario happened to someone I'm acquainted with.

Offline exorcist

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Re: possible shill bidding seller
« Reply #13 on: August 19, 2016, 02:03:20 PM »
Ive heard of sellers  driving up auctions of other sellers that are selling the same item with no intent on paying, so the demand gets driven to their auctions. 

Offline bandaches

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Re: possible shill bidding seller
« Reply #14 on: August 21, 2016, 06:17:08 AM »
Ive heard of sellers  driving up auctions of other sellers that are selling the same item with no intent on paying, so the demand gets driven to their auctions.
Do you speculate that the folks driving up prices of other auctions have won the auctions and not paid?  Doesn't ebay kick those people off or has ebay become completely lax about enforcing the completion of transactions?  I wonder if those folks retract their bids if they become  lead bidders, does ebay limit the number of times someone can retract bids?

I have no doubt the same folks are still shilling their auctions, I just don't care any more to police it and ebay has purposely made it harder to track anyway.
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Offline Paul_Maul

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Re: possible shill bidding seller
« Reply #15 on: August 21, 2016, 07:37:31 AM »
Retractions have become a total joke. You're not allowed to retract at the end of the auction, but it still taints the auction and turns it into a farce. No wonder eBay has become the land of BINs.

Actually, I just looked it up and you can retract a bid as late in the auction as you want as long as it's within one hour of placing it. Run up & retract...it's the eBay way!
« Last Edit: August 21, 2016, 07:40:20 AM by Paul_Maul »

Offline bandaches

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Re: possible shill bidding seller
« Reply #16 on: August 24, 2016, 07:30:38 PM »
Retractions have become a total joke. You're not allowed to retract at the end of the auction, but it still taints the auction and turns it into a farce. No wonder eBay has become the land of BINs.

Actually, I just looked it up and you can retract a bid as late in the auction as you want as long as it's within one hour of placing it. Run up & retract...it's the eBay way!
It looks like sellers can cancel completed auctions with no issues so that is a shiller's paradise!  Run up your own auction, accidentally win it, no problem, cancel the transaction.
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Offline bandaches

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Re: possible shill bidding seller
« Reply #17 on: February 05, 2017, 12:15:06 PM »
What is up with the series 12 uncut sheets on eBay.  One just sold for around $670 and the winner of that auction of now bidding up the next sheet to over $1,000.  Why does he need two series 12 sheets, why bid the auction up so early?  This is by far the most common uncut sheet .  I'm going to list my sheet see what happens....
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Offline bandaches

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Re: possible shill bidding seller
« Reply #18 on: February 13, 2017, 02:55:33 PM »
Matt sold a 12th series sheet for near $700 a few weeks ago.

The same winning bidder threw a very high bid immediately on Phil's sheet which ended up at $1025 and he won it.

The under bidder on Matt's sheet didn't bid on Phil's sheet.

A new under bidder(who didn't bid on Matt's sheet) put $1000 early bid on Phil's sheet and never came back to snipe it nor did he bid on my sheet which was listed for less than his bid price.   

While Phil's sheet was sitting there at $1025 with several days left, I decided to list my 12th sheet which is nicely framed(as opposed to stand along sheet like the others).  I started my auction at $400.  Got no bids for 2 days so I jacked up the min bid to $800 on the last day as I really had no interest in selling for $400.

So, why did some need two series 12 sheets(same guy won both Matt and Phil sheets).  Not really important but odd....
Why did the under bidder on Matt's auction not bid on either Phil nor my sheet.  Maybe he is on ebay once per month?

Why did the under bidder on Phil's auction not bid on either of the other two sheets especially my sheet since he was outbid at $1000 and there was my sheet under $1000 the whole way through.  Why did this under bidder throw such a high early bid it?  Maybe he is clueless about good bidding techniques and never bothered to see another sheet for less $ was available?

Lots of maybes, all very odd considering this sheet is the most common and hadn't sold over $200 in years.

Moral of the story, the selling price of this sheet and any possible shenanigans with it has nothing to do with the price of the much more desirable 4th proof sheet.

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Offline jleonard1967

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Re: possible shill bidding seller
« Reply #19 on: February 13, 2017, 09:47:45 PM »
We all know that it is bid up by friends. I just won't chase an auction. I will only bid what I want to bid, and no more. eBay has become the land of buy it now anyway.

Re: possible shill bidding seller
« Reply #20 on: February 14, 2017, 06:44:49 AM »
 Haven't really had the time to respond to this one, as it's certainly an odd set of auctions.
As you mention, those B slit/side sheets are very common for Series 12. (A side is tough, though). So a high price is strange.
My initial thought was maybe the winner of the first sheet didn't expect their max bid to actually be called by anyone, and they'd win it at the usual price level. But they got burned.
And then when the second sheet showed up, they were pissed they paid so much for theirs, they just wanted to bid the auction up out of spite just to make the next person also pay a high price.
I'm sure the Germans have a great word for that.
But with all that extra info you dug up, bidding order, etc., looks like there's more going on, as you say.

Offline bandaches

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Re: possible shill bidding seller
« Reply #21 on: February 14, 2017, 07:04:45 AM »
Haven't really had the time to respond to this one, as it's certainly an odd set of auctions.
As you mention, those B slit/side sheets are very common for Series 12. (A side is tough, though). So a high price is strange.
My initial thought was maybe the winner of the first sheet didn't expect their max bid to actually be called by anyone, and they'd win it at the usual price level. But they got burned.
And then when the second sheet showed up, they were pissed they paid so much for theirs, they just wanted to bid the auction up out of spite just to make the next person also pay a high price.
I'm sure the Germans have a great word for that.
But with all that extra info you dug up, bidding order, etc., looks like there's more going on, as you say.
I thought of the spite thing but he bid so high on Phils auction that he won it rather than systematically running it up.  He wins many of Matt's private shirt auctions. Not sure why those auctions are private bidding and many other auctions are public.  Anyway, I put my sheet up again at $800 to prove the under bidder on Phils auction who lost at $1000 has no real interest in the sheet and if I happen to sell for $800, so be it.
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Offline DrSushi

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Re: possible shill bidding seller
« Reply #22 on: February 14, 2017, 08:50:56 AM »
I'm sure the Germans have a great word for that.

This is why I hang out here, great line!

Schadenschilling seems obvious, but it works for me.


Offline Jean Nutty

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Re: possible shill bidding seller
« Reply #23 on: February 14, 2017, 09:32:23 AM »
Schadenschilling seems obvious, but it works for me.

perfect!             that's awesome

Offline sco(o)t

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Re: possible shill bidding seller
« Reply #24 on: February 14, 2017, 12:36:58 PM »
This is why I hang out here, great line!

Schadenschilling seems obvious, but it works for me.

I think the 1968 VW Beetle I had was equipped with that option.
aka Scot Leibacher (no trademark)

Offline Tom Keen

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Re: possible shill bidding seller
« Reply #25 on: February 15, 2017, 03:29:45 PM »
Glad i don't collect sheets!

Offline bigtomi

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Re: possible shill bidding seller
« Reply #26 on: February 16, 2017, 04:29:52 PM »
I think the 1968 VW Beetle I had was equipped with that option.
I had a 1971 Karmann Ghia. It was often...



Offline bandaches

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Re: possible shill bidding seller
« Reply #27 on: February 18, 2017, 11:50:30 AM »
 like I predicted the under bidder that ran up the auction to $1,000 has not bid on my $800 sheet.... the guy who won two series 12 sheets apparently  doesn't need a third one....
Contact me at bandaches@yahoo.com as I have tons of wackys for sale!