Author Topic: Wacky Package Reference  (Read 29695 times)

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Offline Tom Keen

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Re: Wacky Package Reference
« Reply #105 on: June 27, 2016, 11:30:56 AM »
Ok, I don't see 4 bidders that made the price of this box so I assumed the discussion of 4 bidders was across both auctions(Tom?).  The bidding on the other box was similar price per pack given the box in the other auction was trashed.
First, why are you not band-ache?  What's up with the "s"?

Anyway, you are correct, I was referring to bidders across both auctions.  A simple review of the bid history shows this.

Offline Tom Keen

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Re: Wacky Package Reference
« Reply #106 on: June 27, 2016, 11:31:51 AM »
I hope some of the packs get opened and the wrappers sold - I could use a red wrapper.
I've seen many red wrappers on ebay over the years.  They are far from rare.

Offline DynamicTwo

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Re: Wacky Package Reference
« Reply #107 on: June 28, 2016, 07:06:56 PM »
I was one of the bidders on both boxes, but really baled on the full box as I suspected it would sell between $10,000 and $12,000. I was the third highest on the partial box, but just did not want to spend more than $5,000 on the box. I wanted to build in some profit on re-selling them

I would have sold the packs for a profit without even grading them. I leave that to the next owner.

I suspected that they were 2nd series packs, but the owner was very uncooperative when asked important questions. My key question was whether all packs contained gum in them, and whether that gum was unbroken. He responded that he did not have the time to check every pack. Really, how difficult would that have been to check all 73 packs? 5 to 8 minutes at most.

That kept me from bidding higher than $5,000 on the partial box.

I have bought 7 complete OS boxes in the past 2 months, and almost bought 2 more just recently, but I had to cancel a personal check when the seller ignored my telephone calls for 5 days.

Boxes are for sale if you keep searching everywhere but just plan on paying approximately double or more than they sold for 1-2 years ago.

But while I have your attention, I just want to thank the experts on this site (such as Dave) who unsparingly provide responses to the most difficult questions, even when there is no real reward for offering their knowledge.

One last thing: I hope that some of the packs do not get opened so they can eventually be bought up by pack collectors.

Happy hunting!!

Steve


Offline bandaches

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Re: Wacky Package Reference
« Reply #108 on: June 28, 2016, 09:43:09 PM »
I was one of the bidders on both boxes, but really baled on the full box as I suspected it would sell between $10,000 and $12,000. I was the third highest on the partial box, but just did not want to spend more than $5,000 on the box. I wanted to build in some profit on re-selling them

I would have sold the packs for a profit without even grading them. I leave that to the next owner.

I suspected that they were 2nd series packs, but the owner was very uncooperative when asked important questions. My key question was whether all packs contained gum in them, and whether that gum was unbroken. He responded that he did not have the time to check every pack. Really, how difficult would that have been to check all 73 packs? 5 to 8 minutes at most.

That kept me from bidding higher than $5,000 on the partial box.

I have bought 7 complete OS boxes in the past 2 months, and almost bought 2 more just recently, but I had to cancel a personal check when the seller ignored my telephone calls for 5 days.

Boxes are for sale if you keep searching everywhere but just plan on paying approximately double or more than they sold for 1-2 years ago.

But while I have your attention, I just want to thank the experts on this site (such as Dave) who unsparingly provide responses to the most difficult questions, even when there is no real reward for offering their knowledge.

One last thing: I hope that some of the packs do not get opened so they can eventually be bought up by pack collectors.

Happy hunting!!

Steve
Agree that the seller was uninterested in helping and I am glad it cost him getting more money.  You said you would have sold the packs for profit even at your bid on these by flipping them yet I see the experts here felt otherwise.  Interesting dichotomy there on perceived values for these. I agree with you that the full box was on par with value as it certainly is far more rare than a ratz and Cracked combo.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2016, 10:17:03 PM by bandaches »
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Offline Paul_Maul

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Re: Wacky Package Reference
« Reply #109 on: June 29, 2016, 06:30:00 AM »
I was one of the bidders on both boxes, but really baled on the full box as I suspected it would sell between $10,000 and $12,000. I was the third highest on the partial box, but just did not want to spend more than $5,000 on the box. I wanted to build in some profit on re-selling them

I would have sold the packs for a profit without even grading them. I leave that to the next owner.

I suspected that they were 2nd series packs, but the owner was very uncooperative when asked important questions. My key question was whether all packs contained gum in them, and whether that gum was unbroken. He responded that he did not have the time to check every pack. Really, how difficult would that have been to check all 73 packs? 5 to 8 minutes at most.

That kept me from bidding higher than $5,000 on the partial box.

I have bought 7 complete OS boxes in the past 2 months, and almost bought 2 more just recently, but I had to cancel a personal check when the seller ignored my telephone calls for 5 days.

Boxes are for sale if you keep searching everywhere but just plan on paying approximately double or more than they sold for 1-2 years ago.

But while I have your attention, I just want to thank the experts on this site (such as Dave) who unsparingly provide responses to the most difficult questions, even when there is no real reward for offering their knowledge.

One last thing: I hope that some of the packs do not get opened so they can eventually be bought up by pack collectors.

Happy hunting!!

Steve


Hey Steve, good to see you on the forum.

I've had a hard time keeping track of valuation on unopened product for the last five years because there have been so few public sales. Individual unopened packs from series 1-5 almost never surface on eBay anymore, and full boxes (other than the occasional 7th gumless or 14th series) even less so. I guess valuations have moved up a significant notch based on these auctions. I bought a 2nd series box for $3800, but I have to keep reminding myself that was over 10 years ago and really means almost nothing anymore. Problem is I haven't seen an early series full box sell publicly since then.

The trend on sports boxes is BBCE certification, and I expect that will gradually become the case for valuable non-sports boxes as well. Because at $10K the risk of shenanigans with unopened material is too much for me.


Offline Tom Keen

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Re: Wacky Package Reference
« Reply #110 on: June 29, 2016, 06:59:34 AM »

Hey Steve, good to see you on the forum.

I've had a hard time keeping track of valuation on unopened product for the last five years because there have been so few public sales. Individual unopened packs from series 1-5 almost never surface on eBay anymore, and full boxes (other than the occasional 7th gumless or 14th series) even less so. I guess valuations have moved up a significant notch based on these auctions. I bought a 2nd series box for $3800, but I have to keep reminding myself that was over 10 years ago and really means almost nothing anymore. Problem is I haven't seen an early series full box sell publicly since then.

The trend on sports boxes is BBCE certification, and I expect that will gradually become the case for valuable non-sports boxes as well. Because at $10K the risk of shenanigans with unopened material is too much for me.
But is certification of any sort fool proof evidence of untampered packs?  I am pretty sure years ago there were resealed series 16 packs that received PSA grades.  If the buyer never plans to open the packs and one can never really be 100% certainty of the authenticity, then it seems best to just buy at your own risk and enjoy owning what is perceived to be a vintage full box.

Offline Paul_Maul

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Re: Wacky Package Reference
« Reply #111 on: June 29, 2016, 07:10:36 AM »
But is certification of any sort fool proof evidence of untampered packs?  I am pretty sure years ago there were resealed series 16 packs that received PSA grades.  If the buyer never plans to open the packs and one can never really be 100% certainty of the authenticity, then it seems best to just buy at your own risk and enjoy owning what is perceived to be a vintage full box.

Yes, GAI (not PSA) did certify re-sealed 16th series packs years ago. That company is defunct now.

Steve Hart of BBCE is the pack authenticator for PSA and is a widely acknowledged expert in the field. While no one is perfect, I would feel better with his word if I could not examine the packs myself. At the same time, it would bother me not to be able to see pictures of the packs themselves (with the box sealed), which is why I've suggested that the packs be photographed before the box is wrapped. Either way, I would unwrap it after I bought it.

Offline Tom Keen

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Re: Wacky Package Reference
« Reply #112 on: June 29, 2016, 10:40:15 AM »
Yes, GAI (not PSA) did certify re-sealed 16th series packs years ago. That company is defunct now.

Steve Hart of BBCE is the pack authenticator for PSA and is a widely acknowledged expert in the field. While no one is perfect, I would feel better with his word if I could not examine the packs myself. At the same time, it would bother me not to be able to see pictures of the packs themselves (with the box sealed), which is why I've suggested that the packs be photographed before the box is wrapped. Either way, I would unwrap it after I bought it.
You've lost me here, why are we talking about wrapping boxes?  Xmas is June?

Offline NationalSpittoon

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Re: Wacky Package Reference
« Reply #113 on: June 29, 2016, 10:42:55 AM »
You've lost me here, why are we talking about wrapping boxes?  Xmas is June?

It's because the boxes came wrapped in plastic from the factory, or some other reason...  :^)
Mark

Offline Bigmuc13

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Re: Wacky Package Reference
« Reply #114 on: July 01, 2016, 08:45:52 AM »
It's because the boxes came wrapped in plastic from the factory, or some other reason...  :^)

I believe what is being referred to hear is that if PSA certifies a full box, the box is closed and sealed in plastic and you can't see any of the packs.  While it is unlikely PSA would graded and empty box, you never really know if all of the packs inside are what they are supposed to be when you buy a graded box.
Still looking for Series 17

Offline Paul_Maul

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Re: Wacky Package Reference
« Reply #115 on: July 01, 2016, 08:48:25 AM »
I believe what is being referred to hear is that if PSA certifies a full box, the box is closed and sealed in plastic and you can't see any of the packs.  While it is unlikely PSA would graded and empty box, you never really know if all of the packs inside are what they are supposed to be when you buy a graded box.

It's actually Baseball Card Exchange themselves that certify and wrap full boxes, but everything else you said holds.

Offline Paul_Maul

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Re: Wacky Package Reference
« Reply #116 on: July 01, 2016, 08:51:32 AM »

Offline Tom Keen

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Re: Wacky Package Reference
« Reply #117 on: July 01, 2016, 09:04:06 AM »
It's actually Baseball Card Exchange themselves that certify and wrap full boxes, but everything else you said holds.
...and how would one have known this is what you meant?  Given this has now been cleared up.  If you trust their grading and authentication ability, why would you unwrap the box to see the packs?

Offline Paul_Maul

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Re: Wacky Package Reference
« Reply #118 on: July 01, 2016, 09:42:43 AM »
If you trust their grading and authentication ability, why would you unwrap the box to see the packs?

I would not buy a wrapped box in the first place unless I could see photos of the packs, because BBCE makes no attempt to describe pack condition. I'd unwrap it because I like to see and examine what I own, otherwise it isn't much fun. It could always be re-wrapped if I wanted to sell it.

Offline Tom Keen

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Re: Wacky Package Reference
« Reply #119 on: July 01, 2016, 10:27:36 AM »
I would not buy a wrapped box in the first place unless I could see photos of the packs, because BBCE makes no attempt to describe pack condition. I'd unwrap it because I like to see and examine what I own, otherwise it isn't much fun. It could always be re-wrapped if I wanted to sell it.
I think you have supported my point, it is waste of time to get this stuff graded, own it, decide for yourself if you like it, trust it, enjoy it.  You will never absolutely know the "legitimacy" of this stuff as "legitimacy" is too loosely defined as we discussed in the wrapper/pack thread and the crooks who remove creases from cards, repack packs and such have become too good to be detected in call cases.

Offline bandaches

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Re: Wacky Package Reference
« Reply #120 on: July 04, 2016, 07:52:10 PM »
I think you have supported my point, it is waste of time to get this stuff graded, own it, decide for yourself if you like it, trust it, enjoy it.  You will never absolutely know the "legitimacy" of this stuff as "legitimacy" is too loosely defined as we discussed in the wrapper/pack thread and the crooks who remove creases from cards, repack packs and such have become too good to be detected in call cases.
I tend to agree with you.  I only have some stuff PSA graded purely for resale value because some others value PSA graded. I have no desire to keep any PSA graded stuff.
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Offline bandaches

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Re: Wacky Package Reference
« Reply #122 on: September 12, 2016, 06:56:23 PM »
So I came upon some evidence that Taster's Choke and Bald were originally slated for series 1 and that Bum Chex and Choke Wagon were NOT replaced by Mess Clairol and Windhex(which never made any sense anyway as the cuts of the titles don't align),  If this is old information, stop me, if this is new, I will dig out all of info that was just sent to me by one of the Godfather's of wackys.
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Offline Paul_Maul

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Re: Wacky Package Reference
« Reply #123 on: September 12, 2016, 06:59:51 PM »
Do tell!

Offline Paul_Maul

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Re: Wacky Package Reference
« Reply #124 on: September 12, 2016, 07:05:23 PM »
Not sure what you mean about Bum and Choke. Yes, they were initially replaced by dupes of Hipton and Chef Girl before Mess and Windhex were added. Is that what you mean?

Offline crackedjerk

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Re: Wacky Package Reference
« Reply #125 on: September 12, 2016, 07:24:33 PM »
So I came upon some evidence that Taster's Choke and Bald were originally slated for series 1 and that Bum Chex and Choke Wagon were NOT replaced by Mess Clairol and Windhex(which never made any sense anyway as the cuts of the titles don't align),  If this is old information, stop me, if this is new, I will dig out all of info that was just sent to me by one of the Godfather's of wackys.

News to me, but I don't tend to get quite that deep into all the Wacky history.  I enjoy hearing stories, though, even if they tend to last only minutes before I forget them.

Offline bandaches

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Re: Wacky Package Reference
« Reply #126 on: September 12, 2016, 07:38:00 PM »
So let's start with series 4





Were the collection of titles on this checklist known?  This seems to represent the -01 version of the sheet with winsome on it
« Last Edit: September 12, 2016, 07:51:40 PM by bandaches »
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Re: Wacky Package Reference
« Reply #127 on: September 12, 2016, 07:52:29 PM »
Yes, fairly old news.
I've posted about it a number of times

Offline bandaches

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Re: Wacky Package Reference
« Reply #128 on: September 12, 2016, 07:55:57 PM »
Yes, fairly old news.
I've posted about it a number of times
Including a checklist that has bum, choke, mess Clairol and windhex all on one checklist?
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Offline Paul_Maul

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Re: Wacky Package Reference
« Reply #129 on: September 12, 2016, 07:56:37 PM »
I remember the Winsome thing, but I never saw the Checklist with Bum/Choke/Mess/Windhex.

Tasters Choke & Bald appeared on the 2nd series proof sheet. If Mess/Windhex were originally slated for the 4th, it's odd that they were replaced by Tasters Choke & Bald  only to be available to replace Bum and Choke.

Re: Wacky Package Reference
« Reply #130 on: September 12, 2016, 07:58:06 PM »
Including a checklist that has bum, choke, mess Clairol and windhex all on one checklist?
Yes, including the checklist.

The checklist was posted years ago on Gregs interim forum, and that kicked off the whole discussion

Offline Paul_Maul

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Re: Wacky Package Reference
« Reply #131 on: September 12, 2016, 08:00:47 PM »
Yes, including the checklist.

The checklist was posted years ago on Gregs interim forum, and that kicked off the whole discussion

Funny, I have no memory of the checklist. Was there a consensus on why Mess /Windhex were not used if they were later available?

Re: Wacky Package Reference
« Reply #132 on: September 12, 2016, 08:04:18 PM »
toppsvault later posted an auction for an odd sheet, possibly the original version of the mail-in poster, that included both Taster's Choke and Bald.
My take is that sheet was scrapped, and the 2 titles were moved into the 4th series before it went to print.

here's my reverse image of the auction photo, with my mini-versions of TC and Bald inserted so it's easy to see the matching borders.



original image
« Last Edit: September 12, 2016, 08:57:36 PM by Fanatical_and_Sickly »

Re: Wacky Package Reference
« Reply #133 on: September 12, 2016, 08:10:35 PM »
Funny, I have no memory of the checklist. Was there a consensus on why Mess /Windhex were not used if they were later available?
the image wasn't posted for long and was taken down by the originator. I thought I had a screen grab, but never found it. I'm glad that it's finally been re-posted all these years later.

no consensus that I recall. 4th series is one of the craziest, for sure. With all these odd puts and pulls of titles, the change in checklist color, maiming of jokes, etc.

Offline bandaches

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Re: Wacky Package Reference
« Reply #134 on: September 12, 2016, 08:14:52 PM »
I remember the Winsome thing, but I never saw the Checklist with Bum/Choke/Mess/Windhex.

Tasters Choke & Bald appeared on the 2nd series proof sheet. If Mess/Windhex were originally slated for the 4th, it's odd that they were replaced by Tasters Choke & Bald  only to be available to replace Bum and Choke.
So Chef Boy replaced Bum Chex on the sheet that had no Bum, Choke, Mess or Wind. Then that spot was changed to Mess Clairol.  There could never have been a sheet that matches this proof checklist, correct?
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Re: Wacky Package Reference
« Reply #135 on: September 12, 2016, 08:19:10 PM »
So Chef Boy replaced Bum Chex on the sheet that had no Bum, Choke, Mess or Wind. Then that spot was changed to Mess Clairol.  There could never have been a sheet that matches this proof checklist, correct?
haven't seen one.
There was also that proof sheet showing the 2 replacement stickers, which were Milk-Foam and Pepto-Dismal, but no Mess or Wind.


Offline bandaches

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Re: Wacky Package Reference
« Reply #136 on: September 12, 2016, 08:21:07 PM »
So Chef Boy replaced Bum Chex on the sheet that had no Bum, Choke, Mess or Wind. Then that spot was changed to Mess Clairol.  There could never have been a sheet that matches this proof checklist, correct?
So Hipton replaced Choke Wagon on the sheet that had no Bum, Choke, Mess or Wind. Then that spot was changed to Windhex.
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Offline bandaches

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Re: Wacky Package Reference
« Reply #137 on: September 12, 2016, 08:27:17 PM »
toppsvault later posted an auction for an odd sheet, possibly the original version of the mail-in poster, that included both Taster's Choke and Bald.
My take is that sheet was scrapped, and the 2 titles were moved into the 4th series before it went to print.

(Image removed from quote.)

here's my reverse image of the auction photo, with my mini-versions of TC and Bald inserted so it's easy to see the matching borders.
Here is the color version....







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Offline LonerStoner

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Re: Wacky Package Reference
« Reply #138 on: December 15, 2017, 02:43:21 PM »
So awesome, thanks for all the hard work.