Wacky Packages Postcard 6 WAITING LIST

[bandaches]

Why does everything have to be so cut and dry for you. I tell you what, I emailed the guy and will find the facts

You made a rather bizarre statement that you seemed pretty sure he had only three 6b's and then you went on to defend that stance.  What makes you think he will tell you how many he got now that he knows people are upset about his approach?  I totally don't understand your posts here so I am allowed to say so.  If trying to get to the facts and truth is "cut and dry" and bothersome for you, so be it.

[Sue Mee]

Here is the sketch I recieved today from the wait list.

Great! 

for those of you with young kids....here's my mashup.

[Duznt]

Great sketch pull 6up, and nice mashup Sue Mee!

[bandaches]

I agree, it's a coincidence he only listed 3 sets.

Let's cut to the chase with this clown:

He goes by tearawayface here on the forum, he is quisp on ebay and his name is Ralph Stout.  He clearly manipulated the Topps system(which it appears any two year old could have done as it seems they only caught single order overages and missed many alter address shipments). 

He had at least 15 sketches from 6A, some have contacted me and said he had as many as 25.  He has been peddling his oversupply of Alpha Bytes and Maulboro sketches to some of us individually and on ebay.  He has sold many to the sugar mommy including one of the puzzle pieces for Capnmorgan that I was chasing.

I have no idea how he stumbled onto the hobby as he seems to have a disregard for the hobby based on his hoarding and flipping this stuff.

I believe the three 6B sketches on ebay were merely ones that sugar mommy passed on and I totally expect he had a bunch of 6B sketches too.

[BumChex]

You made a rather bizarre statement that you seemed pretty sure he had only three 6b's and then you went on to defend that stance.  What makes you think he will tell you how many he got now that he knows people are upset about his approach?  I totally don't understand your posts here so I am allowed to say so.  If trying to get to the facts and truth is "cut and dry" and bothersome for you, so be it.

OK, First off why would you think any different? Do you have some knowledge to how Topps sells that you want to share? Why would one person have special rights to the sets? People on the forum said that they are only limited to 3 sets. Why do you think this person has special treatment?
I do think it's bizarre because Topps was only allowing 5 per address. Well, I now see that this person had 10 to sell from the original batch. He listed 3 6b's on ebay but now it seems he has an additional 8 for sale privately. So that makes 11 on 6B's. This doesn't add up at all. What controls are really in placed at Topps? If you are looking for a witch hunt here it is.

[bandaches]

OK, First off why would you think any different? Do you have some knowledge to how Topps sells that you want to share? Why would one person have special rights to the sets? People on the forum said that they are only limited to 3 sets. Why do you think this person has special treatment?
I do think it's bizarre because Topps was only allowing 5 per address. Well, I now see that this person had 10 to sell from the original batch. He listed 3 6b's on ebay but now it seems he has an additional 8 for sale privately. So that makes 11 on 6B's. This doesn't add up at all. What controls are really in placed at Topps? If you are looking for a witch hunt here it is.

Your posts make it appear you just don't bother to read any of the previous posts.  You were the one who made the definitive statement that Ralph had only three 6b's and you suddenly latched on to three as some magic number because Topps allowed three on the wait list.  

The running theory here is that Ralph lined up all sorts of friends and relatives to place orders with Topps. HE loaded up the truck on 6A's as we have already seen.  He had so many orders in there, he also ended up having some of his shipments lost so he got 6b's when his order was filled.  I have no idea if he was ALSO on the wait list for 3 sets, it is almost a moot point.  I predicted he would have way more than three 6b's based on his history and for some reason you completely disregarded some very obvious history and facts.

Seeing that Raw Goo's mom got sketches and the last name's matched and Raw Goo's mom doesn't seem to be a regular sketch orderer, it suggests that Topps "checking" was pretty basic and maybe all they did was catch orders that were over 5 and actually didnt catch ANY friends and family orders.  

The moral of the story is we have a new Cardgary's on our hands and these guys will keep showing up if we keep paying them.  

[BumChex]

Your posts make it appear you just don't bother to read any of the previous posts.  You were the one who made the definitive statement that Ralph had only three 6b's and you suddenly latched on to three as some magic number because Topps allowed three on the wait list. 

The running theory here is that Ralph lined up all sorts of friends and relatives to place orders with Topps. HE loaded up the truck on 6A's as we have already seen.  He had so many orders in there, he also ended up having some of his shipments lost so he got 6b's when his order was filled.  I have no idea if he was ALSO on the wait list for 3 sets, it is almost a moot point.  I predicted he would have way more than three 6b's based on his history and for some reason you completely disregarded some very obvious history and facts.

Seeing that Raw Goo's mom got sketches and the last name's matched and Raw Goo's mom doesn't seem to be a regular sketch ordered, it suggests that Topps "checking" was pretty basic and maybe all they did was catch orders that were over 5 and actually didnt catch ANY friends and family orders. 

The moral of the story is we have a new Cardgary's on our hands and these guys will keep showing up if we keep paying them. 

Dude, these are the facts. I first assumed and now I have the facts (not really the facts just observations how this went down).So why should I assume in the first place because?
1.  Topps had rigid guidelines for all buyers.
2. Some people gave Topps multiple addresses to get more sets and they went through.
3. People got in on 2nd run of postcards while they also got in on the first batch.

You really don't have to assume too much but to realize that Topps isn't perfect and neither are we. People got more than any others. I don't see you ripping Pat for getting 10 sketches or Leslie that got 10 sketches herself. For some reason you are taking it out on me for posting my opinion and I don't get why. Why should I assume that this guy had 3 sketches because that is what Topps offered to the people that were left out, when in fact, this person actually has 11? My rational is that he couldn't possibly have more since this is such a small release.
You must know something that I don't know so why don't you share it with the group? I know now he has a lot more then originally speculated but it still doesn't add up as to why he would get so many sets. You have argued this so you must have some inside info on this and should share with the group.

[bandaches]

Dude, these are the facts. I first assumed and now I have the facts (not really the facts just observations how this went down).So why should I assume in the first place because?
1.  Topps had rigid guidelines for all buyers.
2. Some people gave Topps multiple addresses to get more sets and they went through.
3. People got in on 2nd run of postcards while they also got in on the first batch.

You really don't have to assume too much but to realize that Topps isn't perfect and neither are we. People got more than any others. I don't see you ripping Pat for getting 10 sketches or Leslie that got 10 sketches herself. For some reason you are taking it out on me for posting my opinion and I don't get why. Why should I assume that this guy had 3 sketches because that is what Topps offered to the people that were left out, when in fact, this person actually has 11? My rational is that he couldn't possibly have more since this is such a small release.
You must know something that I don't know so why don't you share it with the group? I know now he has a lot more then originally speculated but it still doesn't add up as to why he would get so many sets. You have argued this so you must have some inside info on this and should share with the group.

Dude, go get some sleep, you don't make any sense.  You claimed his max was three, we had all already seen he clearly had a bunch of 6a's so it was very logical he somehow had a bunch of 6b's once he started rolling some out.  It is just that simple and several people immediately agreed with me.  I have no idea why you are so defensive about this as this really has nothing to do with you and everything to do with Ralph somehow manipulating the system so all we can do is guess on how he did it.  Raw Goo announced she had 10, offered them to folks but everyone is cool.  How you are relating that to Ralph is beyond me... I see no evidence of her thumbing her nose to the hobby like Ralph has.

[BumChex]

You claimed his max was three, we had all already seen he clearly had a bunch of 6a's so it was very logical he somehow had a bunch of 6b's once he started rolling some out.  It is just that simple and several people immediately agreed with me. 

OK
1. how do you rationalize that since he had so many 6a's that he would have instant access to the 6b's?
2. Who is agreeing with you that this guy should be selected as the only person to have so many of both 6a and 6b?
that is why I asked the question that you didn't answer - how do you know? Why do you think it's so logical that since he had so many 6a's he would have so many 6b's. Is it the same logic I posted about how he could have gotten 3 6b's because he listed them as fast as he got them?

[BumChex]

Let's cut to the chase with this clown:

He goes by tearawayface here on the forum, he is quisp on ebay and his name is Ralph Stout.  He clearly manipulated the Topps system(which it appears any two year old could have done as it seems they only caught single order overages and missed many alter address shipments).  

He had at least 15 sketches from 6A, some have contacted me and said he had as many as 25.  He has been peddling his oversupply of Alpha Bytes and Maulboro sketches to some of us individually and on ebay.  He has sold many to the sugar mommy including one of the puzzle pieces for Capnmorgan that I was chasing.

I have no idea how he stumbled onto the hobby as he seems to have a disregard for the hobby based on his hoarding and flipping this stuff.

I believe the three 6B sketches on ebay were merely ones that sugar mommy passed on and I totally expect he had a bunch of 6B sketches too.

WOW!

Can we ASSUME any more? You are giving me shit for assuming and now you are doing the same. You subscribe to FACTS  but they don't obviously apply to this case (as you aren't calling out a full witch hunt)  because you are like the rest of us in trying to wrap our heads around this and how he got away from the Topps police.

[bandaches]

WOW!

Can we ASSUME any more? You are giving me shit for assuming and now you are doing the same. You subscribe to FACTS  but they don't obviously apply to this case (as you aren't calling out a full witch hunt)  because you are like the rest of us in trying to wrap our heads around this and how he got away from the Topps police.

Dude, you have lost your mind.  Tell us what your motives are in defending the Quisp/tearawayface/Ralph who has clearly owned and sold record numbers of series 6 sketches?  Everyone here has noticed it, I have a PM from someone who says he believes Ralph got 25 sets of 6a's and still got 6b's.  The facts are in tallying up private transactions and ebay. 

Are you somehow oblivious of all of this?

[bandaches]

OK
1. how do you rationalize that since he had so many 6a's that he would have instant access to the 6b's?
2. Who is agreeing with you that this guy should be selected as the only person to have so many of both 6a and 6b?
that is why I asked the question that you didn't answer - how do you know? Why do you think it's so logical that since he had so many 6a's he would have so many 6b's. Is it the same logic I posted about how he could have gotten 3 6b's because he listed them as fast as he got them?

HE LISTED 6b's on ebay!!!!  That is how we KNOW he has 6b's, I don't understand how you can be so confused about this.

[FourRoses]

Now looks to be the time to unload the post card sets both past and present. The first page of ebay has 2 sketches from series 6 as well as the first series series with sketch.

[bandaches]

Now looks to be the time to unload the post card sets both past and present. The first page of ebay has 2 sketches from series 6 as well as the first series series with sketch.

Are you referring to cardgary selling his weakies sketch from series 1?  I had been prodding him for that since late last year, he offered it for sale at around $50 which was steep at the time and many were so offended that he hoarded a large number of series 1 sets that it was irksome to send him profits.  I originally declined his offer but then wrote him back some time afterwards accepting the offer as I didn't feel like chasing that sketch.  He told me it was in storage and he would have to dig it out and would get back to me.  I periodically would check with him over the last few months and suddenly he has access to it and flipped it to ebay instead of selling to me.  I had been a regular customer of his and also was one who chimed in here saying I have had good transactions with him as I buy ANS stuff that I missed or didn't feel like chasing and I have referred other people to him.  I guess he viewed getting some extra $ on the Weakies as worth more than my now taking my business, my prasies of him and other potential folks I would send to him elsewhere.  It is what it is...

[JasonLiebig]

Dude, you have lost your mind.  Tell us what your motives are in defending the Quisp/tearawayface/Ralph who has clearly owned and sold record numbers of series 6 sketches?  Everyone here has noticed it, I have a PM from someone who says he believes Ralph got 25 sets of 6a's and still got 6b's.  The facts are in tallying up private transactions and ebay.  

Are you somehow oblivious of all of this?

Gentlemen,

Can I ask, - what, specifically, is being debated here?   This goes to Bandaches and BumChex primarily.    

I ask, because I'm a bit confused about what we're trying to get at.  I can see there some debate/speculation as to how many sets of 6b this seller could have, but that can only be speculation.  Clearly he has at least what he's offered on Ebay -- there can be no debate on that, at least.

Are we attacking/defending the seller for getting way more than one set and putting them up for sale?  Is this a debate about the hobby-morality of doing such a thing?  

Are we discussing/debating the effectiveness of Topps' ordering limits?  

If Bandaches and Bumchex wouldn't mind simplifying the debate here, it'd be great.   It might be fun to get involved in the discussions, but only if I understand everyone's point-of-view clearly.  

[Dr Popper]

Gentlemen,

Can I ask, - what, specifically, is being debated here?   This goes to Bandaches and BumChex primarily.    

I ask, because I'm a bit confused about what we're trying to get at.  I can see there some debate/speculation as to how many sets of 6b this seller could have, but that can only be speculation.  Clearly he has at least what he's offered on Ebay -- there can be no debate on that, at least.

Are we attacking/defending the seller for getting way more than one set and putting them up for sale?  Is this a debate about the hobby-morality of doing such a thing?  

Are we discussing/debating the effectiveness of Topps' ordering limits?  

If Bandaches and Bumchex wouldn't mind simplifying the debate here, it'd be great.   It might be fun to get involved in the discussions, but only if I understand everyone's point-of-view clearly.  

Basically Ernie thinks that Brad may be defending quisp on ebay for somehow getting a bunch of sets because he assumed he got his 6B sets from the wait list.  Although I believe quisp got more than 3 sets of 6B I don't think Brad was defending quisp.  If he did in fact get on a wait list after getting 15+ sets of 6A wouldn't that be morally worse than having part of his multiple network orders getting lost?  I personally think it would be worse.

The bottom-line is that he found a way to beat the system, and I'm not sure how Topps can prevent it from happening again.  They see different names and addresses on all of the orders, so how would they know they were all somehow conected to one source?

[FourRoses]

Are you referring to cardgary selling his weakies sketch from series 1?  I had been prodding him for that since late last year, he offered it for sale at around $50 which was steep at the time and many were so offended that he hoarded a large number of series 1 sets that it was irksome to send him profits. 

Cards and sketch card in the same auction going for well over $50.00.

[slamjim]

Are we discussing/debating the effectiveness of Topps' ordering limits?  

There is only so much Topps can (and should do) on this. Obviously it's better for Topps (and everyone else) for them to sell the majority of the product to different people as they are gaining and/or keeping multiple customers this way. So they put a 5 set limit on orders. Something that can easily be policed. Someone using their friends, relatives, whatever to get around the limit is something that is impossible for Topps to stop. If anyone expects Topps to start running background checks on customers you'd have to be nuts. Hell, even a background check somehow revealing family members doesn't reveal friends. It's impossible. Everyone knows that in ANY collectibles field there are going to be strictly profit dealers. I would suggest a few things:

1. People here set up buddy systems for the next release. 5 sets each regular poster here should net everyone a set. Set a person in your group to make the actual buy. That person should be someone who checks this site daily and has some time in the afternoon to get them the day of release. Timing is the key problem with this. Knowing exactly when the sets will start being sold. Which leads to another idea.

2. a 1 set pre-sale (NO discount of course). Essentially a list of people that Neil knows are forum members. They are contacted a week (or whatever) before release and have one week (or whatever) to place the 1 set order. Anything left goes up for sale as a 5 set limit.

3. Don't even bother with selling the special set at the store. Call it the Wacky Postcard Collectors Club. Get 250 different people on the list and sell them each one set. If more people get interested and want in then add more sets. I don't see any reason that if the market demands more than 250 INDIVIDUAL collectors need a set that the set limit can't rise just enough to meet that demand.

[JasonLiebig]

Basically Ernie thinks that Brad may be defending quisp on ebay for somehow getting a bunch of sets because he assumed he got his 6B sets from the wait list.  Although I believe quisp got more than 3 sets of 6B I don't think Brad was defending quisp.  If he did in fact get on a wait list after getting 15+ sets of 6A wouldn't that be morally worse than having part of his multiple network orders getting lost?  I personally think it would be worse.

The bottom-line is that he found a way to beat the system, and I'm not sure how Topps can prevent it from happening again.  They see different names and addresses on all of the orders, so how would they know they were all somehow conected to one source?

I think if you've got friends and family members willing to get online and order for you, there's nothing Topps can, or should do.  I still like the idea of a subscription plan of sorts - and if it turns out to be practical for Topps to do something like that, it would address the missing out on new releases (if you were a subscriber) and that might deter the hoarding.   Though it might not be practical for Topps - I've no idea.  

As for getting on the waiting list to get sets after having already gotten the first release sets?    If you're a member of the forum community, I don't think that's a very neighborly thing to do.  But if you aren't, I"m not sure.  It's opportunistic, certainly, beyond that - you could frame it all sorts of ways.  If Topps was clear that ONLY folks who did not receive initial sets could sign up for the wait list - then signing up would be fraudulent.  

Though there is also speculation that this person had sets that were part of the lost shipment, right?

As a forum community, I think active members endeavor to look out for one another when we can, because that serves us in the long run - that defines a community, I think.  At the same time, we often profit from one another, too -- I don't see a problem with any of that.  I certainly didn't have a problem with Ernie offering his extra LE sets (sans sketches) at a premium (a profit to him) yet at a savings to the going rate on Ebay.  

All that said, this seller is not an active member here, is he?  He's avails himself of the information here, and that serves him.   I doubt if any members will be doing him too many favors, after this - no matter how we deem his activities.  

[JasonLiebig]

There is only so much Topps can (and should do) on this. Obviously it's better for Topps (and everyone else) for them to sell the majority of the product to different people as they are gaining and/or keeping multiple customers this way. So they put a 5 set limit on orders. Something that can easily be policed. Someone using their friends, relatives, whatever to get around the limit is something that is impossible for Topps to stop. If anyone expects Topps to start running background checks on customers you'd have to be nuts. Hell, even a background check somehow revealing family members doesn't reveal friends. It's impossible. Everyone knows that in ANY collectibles field there are going to be strictly profit dealers. I would suggest a few things:

1. People here set up buddy systems for the next release. 5 sets each regular poster here should net everyone a set. Set a person in your group to make the actual buy. That person should be someone who checks this site daily and has some time in the afternoon to get them the day of release. Timing is the key problem with this. Knowing exactly when the sets will start being sold. Which leads to another idea.

2. a 1 set pre-sale (NO discount of course). Essentially a list of people that Neil knows are forum members. They are contacted a week (or whatever) before release and have one week to place the 1 set order. Anything left goes up for sale as a 5 set limit.

3. Don't even bother with selling the special set at the store. Call it the Wacky Postcard Collectors Club. Get 250 different people on the list and sell them each one set. If more people get interested and want in then add more sets. I don't see any reason that if the market demands more than 250 INDIVIDUAL collectors need a set that the set limit can't rise just enough to meet that demand.

Looks like my earlier post crossed with yours.  I like these ideas.  I know several people collect "sets" of the sketches, but a Wacky Postcard Collectors Club would still be great.  I think for the sketch set collectors, this could be a negative, however.   

For those of you who have been assembling sets of sketches - how do you view these possible solutions?

[slamjim]

Also, keep in mind that dealers selling this stuff on Ebay is partly a positive for the hobby. They reach non-forum collectors and make brand new Wacky collectors from their sales. On the negative side if they take too much of the stock they can cause older collectors to drop the hobby for financial or frustration reasons.

[DrDeal]

I would like to #2 to happen. We wait-listers were just sent a link to purchase our set or sets. Sending a predetermined list of Wacky Fans a link to purchase one set would eliminate most of the issues we are facing. Those who want 5 sets would be able to hit the public on-sale for more. This option would satisfy a good number of forum members.

DrDeal

There is only so much Topps can (and should do) on this. Obviously it's better for Topps (and everyone else) for them to sell the majority of the product to different people as they are gaining and/or keeping multiple customers this way. So they put a 5 set limit on orders. Something that can easily be policed. Someone using their friends, relatives, whatever to get around the limit is something that is impossible for Topps to stop. If anyone expects Topps to start running background checks on customers you'd have to be nuts. Hell, even a background check somehow revealing family members doesn't reveal friends. It's impossible. Everyone knows that in ANY collectibles field there are going to be strictly profit dealers. I would suggest a few things:

1. People here set up buddy systems for the next release. 5 sets each regular poster here should net everyone a set. Set a person in your group to make the actual buy. That person should be someone who checks this site daily and has some time in the afternoon to get them the day of release. Timing is the key problem with this. Knowing exactly when the sets will start being sold. Which leads to another idea.

2. a 1 set pre-sale (NO discount of course). Essentially a list of people that Neil knows are forum members. They are contacted a week (or whatever) before release and have one week to place the 1 set order. Anything left goes up for sale as a 5 set limit.

3. Don't even bother with selling the special set at the store. Call it the Wacky Postcard Collectors Club. Get 250 different people on the list and sell them each one set. If more people get interested and want in then add more sets. I don't see any reason that if the market demands more than 250 INDIVIDUAL collectors need a set that the set limit can't rise just enough to meet that demand.


I

[slamjim]

I would like to #2 to happen. We wait-listers were just sent a link to purchase our set or sets. Sending a predetermined list of Wacky Fans a link to purchase one set would eliminate most of the issues we are facing. Those who want 5 sets would be able to hit the public on-sale for more. This option would satisfy a good number of forum members.

DrDeal

It's basically what we did for Old School (though that did not have a box limit) and that worked out fine.

[JasonLiebig]

Also, keep in mind that dealers selling this stuff on Ebay is partly a positive for the hobby. They reach non-forum collectors and make brand new Wacky collectors from their sales. On the negative side if they take too much of the stock they can cause older collectors to drop the hobby for financial or frustration reasons.

This is a good point.  There is also the idea that limited supplies selling at a premium on the secondary market creates excitement in a hobby.  I'm not really a fan or big proponent in this idea or approach, but it seems to be something that works.  I've seen it in comics, for certain.   In the early 2,000's, Marvel purposely did not do overprinting on highly anticipated issues.  When they sold-out, they were gone, and they immediately gained secondary market value.  This created buzz, and got people excited about getting into the comic stores again, or at least that's what I heard.

[slamjim]

I know several people collect "sets" of the sketches, but a Wacky Postcard Collectors Club would still be great.  I think for the sketch set collectors, this could be a negative, however.  

For those of you who have been assembling sets of sketches - how do you view these possible solutions?

My question here is if people are mad at this guy for selling multiple sets on Ebay are they also mad at sketch collectors since those people would in affect be "hoarding" and taking away sketches that other collectors may not have a chance to get?  Since the series is soooooo limited buying any more than the one set and sketch for yourself is essentially taking away a sketch from someone else who will never get one (or have to pay a premium for it down the road). It's a slippery slope to get too mad at this guy for what he is doing because technically if you get more than one set you are stopping another person from getting it. I think this series is too small. It needs an additional 150-250 sets (IMHO).

[bandaches]

Gentlemen,

Can I ask, - what, specifically, is being debated here?   This goes to Bandaches and BumChex primarily.    

I ask, because I'm a bit confused about what we're trying to get at.  I can see there some debate/speculation as to how many sets of 6b this seller could have, but that can only be speculation.  Clearly he has at least what he's offered on Ebay -- there can be no debate on that, at least.

Are we attacking/defending the seller for getting way more than one set and putting them up for sale?  Is this a debate about the hobby-morality of doing such a thing?  

Are we discussing/debating the effectiveness of Topps' ordering limits?  

If Bandaches and Bumchex wouldn't mind simplifying the debate here, it'd be great.   It might be fun to get involved in the discussions, but only if I understand everyone's point-of-view clearly.  

Interestingly, I am in the debate and I may be equally lost with you.  Brad made a statement that he felt that Quisp only had 3 6b sets and then linked this to the three sets from the wait list.  I stated(with others) that it was highly unlikely these were wait list sets and it was highly unlikely this was all the seller had based on the fact he had hoards of 6a sets.  Brad seemed to think Quisp would blow out all of his supply in one shot hence seeing only three sets on ebay meant that is all Quisp had.  I again stated that Quisp had done numerous private transactions with 6A sketches that never appeared on ebay so using Quisp ebay count as a measure of his total sets didn't seem to be an accurate way to go.  From there it has digressed and I am not exactly sure what we are debating.  My stance has been proven correct so it seems now Brad thinks I had some form of inside information rather than my guess being purely logical based on the 6A events.  My posts then digressed to snarkiness as I had pretty much had it and felt like Brad was completely ignoring the ebay and private transaction evidence that he was accutely aware of as he knows sugar mommy had bought many privately from Quisp.  I state that Brad was aware of this because Brad told me directly in PM's.

If this debate is about something else outside of what I covered above, I truly missed it and that would be my bad.

[bandaches]

There is only so much Topps can (and should do) on this. Obviously it's better for Topps (and everyone else) for them to sell the majority of the product to different people as they are gaining and/or keeping multiple customers this way. So they put a 5 set limit on orders. Something that can easily be policed. Someone using their friends, relatives, whatever to get around the limit is something that is impossible for Topps to stop. If anyone expects Topps to start running background checks on customers you'd have to be nuts. Hell, even a background check somehow revealing family members doesn't reveal friends. It's impossible. Everyone knows that in ANY collectibles field there are going to be strictly profit dealers. I would suggest a few things:

1. People here set up buddy systems for the next release. 5 sets each regular poster here should net everyone a set. Set a person in your group to make the actual buy. That person should be someone who checks this site daily and has some time in the afternoon to get them the day of release. Timing is the key problem with this. Knowing exactly when the sets will start being sold. Which leads to another idea.

2. a 1 set pre-sale (NO discount of course). Essentially a list of people that Neil knows are forum members. They are contacted a week (or whatever) before release and have one week (or whatever) to place the 1 set order. Anything left goes up for sale as a 5 set limit.

3. Don't even bother with selling the special set at the store. Call it the Wacky Postcard Collectors Club. Get 250 different people on the list and sell them each one set. If more people get interested and want in then add more sets. I don't see any reason that if the market demands more than 250 INDIVIDUAL collectors need a set that the set limit can't rise just enough to meet that demand.

Great post Dave.  I agree with you that Topps can only do so much.  I got a vibe from all of this that Topps was taking some extreme steps to curtail this and that clearly is not the case.  Just calling it what it is.  Great problem to have as obviously the product is wildly successful and at the end of the day, that is all that is going to matter.  The hobby is going to have to sort the rest of the mess out and I don't think we have the discipline to do so such as boycotting hoarders such as Cardgary and Quisp as there will always be someone isn't aware of the situation or doesn't care and just wants to add an item to their collection.  This is a passionate hobby and with that comes loyal customers and some whining.

[JasonLiebig]

My question here is if people are mad at this guy for selling multiple sets on Ebay are they also mad at sketch collectors since those people would in affect be "hoarding" and taking away sketches that other collectors may not have a chance to get?  Since the series is soooooo limited buying any more than the one set and sketch for yourself is essentially taking away a sketch from someone else who will never get one (or have to pay a premium for down the road). It's a slippery slope to get too mad at this guy for what he is doing because technically if you get more than one set you are stopping another person from getting it. I think this series is too small. It needs an additional 150-250 sets (IMHO).

Yeah, I missed out (initially) on LE series 6.  I was a bit annoyed, because I knew this movement to collect sets of sketches contributed to the rapid sellout, probably more than anything.  But I was more annoyed at the situation.  I can't get mad for someone wanting to collect what they collect.  

[bandaches]

Looks like my earlier post crossed with yours.  I like these ideas.  I know several people collect "sets" of the sketches, but a Wacky Postcard Collectors Club would still be great.  I think for the sketch set collectors, this could be a negative, however.   

For those of you who have been assembling sets of sketches - how do you view these possible solutions?

Any form of completists will not like being limited to one set.  While my completist desires are moderate as I don't chase combos or colors, I am having a hell of a time getting one sketch per card.

[JasonLiebig]

Brad seemed to think Quisp would blow out all of his supply in one shot hence seeing only three sets on ebay meant that is all Quisp had.  I again stated that Quisp had done numerous private transactions with 6A sketches that never appeared on ebay so using Quisp ebay count as a measure of his total sets didn't seem to be an accurate way to go.  From there it has digressed and I am not exactly sure what we are debating. 

So Brad speculated on something, and you speculated on something, right?  

I realize you are aware of some facts - that being the folks that made off-ebay purchases from this seller of 6A sketches, and the actual ebay listings.  But beyond that, and what we know from ebay - those are the only facts in place.  

I see no reason for the snarky-ness or anger on either side of this discussion.  Beyond the few facts that have surfaced, this is all educated or speculative guessing - and you've both done some guessing here.  

If Brad guessed wrong, and you guessed right, it's not a big deal, is it?   I'm sure you've guessed wrong before, too.

[Duznt]

1. People here set up buddy systems for the next release. 5 sets each regular poster here should net everyone a set. Set a person in your group to make the actual buy. That person should be someone who checks this site daily and has some time in the afternoon to get them the day of release. Timing is the key problem with this. Knowing exactly when the sets will start being sold. Which leads to another idea.

2. a 1 set pre-sale (NO discount of course). Essentially a list of people that Neil knows are forum members. They are contacted a week (or whatever) before release and have one week (or whatever) to place the 1 set order. Anything left goes up for sale as a 5 set limit.

3. Don't even bother with selling the special set at the store. Call it the Wacky Postcard Collectors Club. Get 250 different people on the list and sell them each one set. If more people get interested and want in then add more sets. I don't see any reason that if the market demands more than 250 INDIVIDUAL collectors need a set that the set limit can't rise just enough to meet that demand.

I like #3 and we have talked about that before. We were calling it a "subscription", where each forum member is guaranteed one LE set. That addresses the problem of people getting shut out. It doesn't however address the friends/family hoarding sellers, but as you mentioned, that will happen regardless.

Also a subscription "Club" has the added potential for some extra goodies such as a WP Postcard Collector Club membership kit (for a small fee to make it worth while for Topps), which could include a membership card, certificate for framing, decoder ring, etc. OK I admit I sent away for way too many of these kits back in the day...   

#2 is also interesting, and similar. As long as people check the forum at least weekly around release date, that would work. Especially if we utilize #1 buddy system 

[JasonLiebig]

Any form of completists will not like being limited to one set.  While my completist desires are moderate as I don't chase combos or colors, I am having a hell of a time getting one sketch per card.

Heh, yeah - I've no doubt it's as frustrating as it is fun.  As was already mentioned, I think setting up a system so that ongoing collectors have an opportunity to get at least one set each would be great.  Since the numbers aren't there for lots of folks to build sketch-sets, leave the multiple ordering to the system we have now.  I want the sketch-set collectors to keep having their fun, but it'd be great if those of us who only collect single sets could get ours before they get snapped up.  

[bandaches]

My question here is if people are mad at this guy for selling multiple sets on Ebay are they also mad at sketch collectors since those people would in affect be "hoarding" and taking away sketches that other collectors may not have a chance to get?  Since the series is soooooo limited buying any more than the one set and sketch for yourself is essentially taking away a sketch from someone else who will never get one (or have to pay a premium for it down the road). It's a slippery slope to get too mad at this guy for what he is doing because technically if you get more than one set you are stopping another person from getting it. I think this series is too small. It needs an additional 150-250 sets (IMHO).

I see it as much more black and white than you here.  Going down your path, is buying ONE SET taking away from someone else?  At some point, a collector's personal goal has to come first and if a collector's goals are well within the guidelines set by Topps, it would be hard to argue that is bad.  Quisp clearly isn't working within any Topps guidelines and his purely flipping for profit.  Sure, it is free market enterprise and I have no issues with people making profits.  We have a right to be angry about how the person obtained the items in order to make that profit.  If someone were to buy a private collection of sketches and flip them on ebay to make a profit, I bet the community would view that with less of a critical eye than Quisp approach.

[JasonLiebig]

I see it as much more black and white than you here.  Going down your path, is buying ONE SET taking away from someone else?  At some point, a collector's personal goal has to come first and if a collector's goals are well within the guidelines set by Topps, it would be hard to argue that is bad.  Quisp clearly isn't working within any Topps guidelines and his purely flipping for profit.  Sure, it is free market enterprise and I have no issues with people making profits.  We have a right to be angry about how the person obtained the items in order to make that profit.  If someone were to buy a private collection of sketches and flip them on ebay to make a profit, I bet the community would view that with less of a critical eye than Quisp approach.

Ernie,

This is fair.  This guy isn't winning any friends on the forum, for sure.  To Topps' credit, they've set up limits, but I agree with Dave that you can only do so much policing.   

It was nice with Old School, as there was plenty of flipping going on, but there was enough product to be able to get the stuff at base cost, too.  Obviously, the Postcards are a very different kind of product, so you can't apply the same model - but it's great when you can get both.

[bandaches]

So Brad speculated on something, and you speculated on something, right?  

I realize you are aware of some facts - that being the folks that made off-ebay purchases from this seller of 6A sketches, and the actual ebay listings.  But beyond that, and what we know from ebay - those are the only facts in place.  

I see no reason for the snarky-ness or anger on either side of this discussion.  Beyond the few facts that have surfaced, this is all educated or speculative guessing - and you've both done some guessing here.  

If Brad guessed wrong, and you guessed right, it's not a big deal, is it?   I'm sure you've guessed wrong before, too.

Yup, two speculations and one turned out to be right.  The usual banter of challenging the other's position but I feel like I presented a lot of very obvious evidence that was ignored without explanation and that was baffling to me.  Each time he presented something, I presented back and direct rebute.  

I have been wrong a billion times and I will be wrong another billion times before I am done.  I was wrong right smack in the middle of 6a as I had purchased stuff from Quisp before I realized he was a hoarder who had access to more than he was entitled.  I mistakening thought he was a collector and actually was somewhat interested in this collecting process.  I got my eye opener when he had the missing puzzle piece for Capmorgan and flipped it for a buck supposedly to someone who isn't even interested in the puzzle pieces and then he refused to tell me who it went to so I could try to lobby to get it.  Suddenly everything was secret Navy Seal mode with this guy even to the point where I wasn't supposed to mention deals I made with him.  That got me very suspicious.....and now here we are....