Wacky Packages Postcard 6 WAITING LIST

[JasonLiebig]

Yup, two speculations and one turned out to be right.  The usual banter of challenging the other's position but I feel like I presented a lot of very obvious evidence that was ignored without explanation and that was baffling to me.  Each time he presented something, I presented back and direct rebute.  

I have been wrong a billion times and I will be wrong another billion times before I am done.  I was wrong right smack in the middle of 6a as I had purchased stuff from Quisp before I realized he was a hoarder who had access to more than he was entitled.  I mistakening thought he was a collector and actually was somewhat interested in this collecting process.  I got my eye opener when he had the missing puzzle piece for Capmorgan and flipped it for a buck supposedly to someone who isn't even interested in the puzzle pieces and then he refused to tell me who it went to so I could try to lobby to get it.  Suddenly everything was secret Navy Seal mode with this guy even to the point where I wasn't supposed to mention deals I made with him.  That got me very suspicious.....and now here we are....

I think the conclusion here is that, unlike many forum members, this guy is not out to do anyone any favors.  He's going to maximize his profit.   

----

It's funny, because none of us begrudge each other for getting the most we can for our vintage stuff, even from each other.  It's just when these situations with new product and limited numbers and all come up, it understandably gets more complicated.

[koduck]

I can't keep up with the numerous points in this thread, but I get the general idea. So, I'm going to take a turn and weigh in on the postcards:

The primary reason why these sets are created in such small numbers is the production factor. Costs, time and quality control are all issues that come into play. Realistically, I can't see doing a set of 500 or 1000 without at least one of these things suffering.

I've explored with Topps the option of mass marketing the postcards, but we've come to the consensus that it would probably change the entire makeup of the product (what if the sets didn't include sketch cards?!)

And just for the record, I'm not producing these sets to stir up any artificial excitement. I mean, really. It's Wacky Packages. Collectors are doing that without any help from me or Topps. Besides, I have no incentive whatsoever to concern myself with the aftermarket value. I'm certainly not in this for the money! So, I leave it to collectors to set the value - real or imagined!

As we go forward, we're trying to address the important issues, like how to get more of the forum members (the core of the wacky fanbase) their postcard sets. One idea that's at the top of the list is giving the forum earlier notice before the general release. Believe me, there are plenty of other ideas, we just need to implement the ones that will benefit the most people.

-Neil

[bandaches]

I can't keep up with the numerous points in this thread, but I get the general idea. So, I'm going to take a turn and weigh in on the postcards:

The primary reason why these sets are created in such small numbers is the production factor. Costs, time and quality control are all issues that come into play. Realistically, I can't see doing a set of 500 or 1000 without at least one of these things suffering.

I've explored with Topps the option of mass marketing the postcards, but we've come to the consensus that it would probably change the entire makeup of the product (what if the sets didn't include sketch cards?!)

And just for the record, I'm not producing these sets to stir up any artificial excitement. I mean, really. It's Wacky Packages. Collectors are doing that without any help from me or Topps. Besides, I have no incentive whatsoever to concern myself with the aftermarket value. I'm certainly not in this for the money! So, I leave it to collectors to set the value - real or imagined!

As we go forward, we're trying to address the important issues, like how to get more of the forum members (the core of the wacky fanbase) their postcard sets. One idea that's at the top of the list is giving the forum earlier notice before the general release. Believe me, there are plenty of other ideas, we just need to implement the ones that will benefit the most people.

-Neil

I think your approach is perfect, produce a great set and get out of the way of the collector craziness that follows.  You have been more than proactive about caring and being involved, way over the top of what would be expected.  Let the hobby sort out its own crisis as long as that sorting doesn;t result in killing the demand for the product which I can't see happening....

[koduck]

I think your approach is perfect, produce a great set and get out of the way of the collector craziness that follows.  You have been more than proactive about caring and being involved, way over the top of what would be expected.  Let the hobby sort out its own crisis as long as that sorting doesn;t result in killing the demand for the product which I can't see happening....

I have only one criteria for the postcards. Each set has to be better than the last.

[slamjim]

Going down your path, is buying ONE SET taking away from someone else? 

That isn't my path at all. A collector buys one set. For himself. Hence the name collector. Buy more than one set in a very limited series that does not meet demand you are taking away a set from another collector. No matter what your reasoning is or personal interest in getting another set. You have 2 someone else has 0. I'm not saying it's a bad or good thing. It just is.

[JasonLiebig]

Neil,

The success of the Wacky postcards is clear - which is awesome, as they are a worthy addition to the brand.  

I think we all appreciate the attention you've given to the release issues that have occurred, especially for series 6.  Being able to get my LE set through the waiting list made my day, and allowed me to keep my run of LE sets going, which is great.   Coming up with some new solution for forum members missing out due to quick sellouts, going forward, would be great and welcome.

[Dr Popper]

I have only one criteria for the postcards. Each set has to be better than the last.

That sounds great, as long "better" doesn't translate into "more variations"!!

[koduck]

But isn't each sketchcard really a variation, LOL!

[BumChex]

Yup, two speculations and one turned out to be right.  The usual banter of challenging the other's position but I feel like I presented a lot of very obvious evidence that was ignored without explanation and that was baffling to me.  Each time he presented something, I presented back and direct rebute.  

I have been wrong a billion times and I will be wrong another billion times before I am done.  I was wrong right smack in the middle of 6a as I had purchased stuff from Quisp before I realized he was a hoarder who had access to more than he was entitled.  I mistakening thought he was a collector and actually was somewhat interested in this collecting process.  I got my eye opener when he had the missing puzzle piece for Capmorgan and flipped it for a buck supposedly to someone who isn't even interested in the puzzle pieces and then he refused to tell me who it went to so I could try to lobby to get it.  Suddenly everything was secret Navy Seal mode with this guy even to the point where I wasn't supposed to mention deals I made with him.  That got me very suspicious.....and now here we are....

I started out trying to figure out why this guy got so many initially and then got in on the 6b's. That's really all there is to it. I can't figure this out. You seem to know he has a lot more then what Topps would allow but you haven't told us why you know this. I want to know how to do this and why didn't you buy more sets then just 5 if you know the secret?
I also read you are pissed at Cardgary because you offered him $50 for a set of series 1. There were only 100 sets produced. $50 is an insult! I now have all 3 different sketch sets for series 1 by buying them from Cardgary. I paid a premium for those sketches and let's just say I paid a lot more then $50 and I wouldn't sell them less then $200 each. Yes Ern, I still have them in my collection and didn't flip them!

[slamjim]

The primary reason why these sets are created in such small numbers is the production factor. Costs, time and quality control are all issues that come into play. Realistically, I can't see doing a set of 500 or 1000 without at least one of these things suffering.

Costs would be extremely minimal to increase the set number considering these are not stickers. Time would only affect the sketch cards as the paintings would still be done in the same time period. Quality would also only affect sketch cards for the same reason. The solution as I see it would be to increase the series run size by 150-250 sets max and add an additional month or so of production time to make sure artists had time to do their additional sketch cards (which would only be another 30 - 60 if you used say 4 different artists). If you used more then it's even less. You have already increased production size (and decreased it) at two different points so that should not be an issue for people. It can only result in more happy customers. Besides, Topps keeps telling me they are more than happy to have the series NOT sell out too fast so they can have product available in the store so new collectors can stumble upon the product. It's worse to have a new product show up for a single day and having lots of pissed off people customers than to have the set take a little longer to sell out. Also, while we always talk about the collectors as the backbone of the hobby not all the collectors use or care about (either) Wacky forum. I found this out doing Old School. There are quite a few Wacky collectors that stay all to themselves. We do not want to create a system that may leave them on the short end either.

I've explored with Topps the option of mass marketing the postcards, but we've come to the consensus that it would probably change the entire makeup of the product (what if the sets didn't include sketch cards?!)

Absolutely, you would not be able to include a sketch card in each set this way. It would have to be a set in a wrapper with random sketches. You already have this option though. Limited sets and just postcard sets which are sold at the online store. Combining the two your just adding a "gambling" option instead. And yes, you would definitely be changing the make-up of the set because you would then be making something that is NOT a collector only based series but rather something like ANS. A series for collectors, kids, impulse buyers, etc.

[bandaches]

I started out trying to figure out why this guy got so many initially and then got in on the 6b's. That's really all there is to it. I can't figure this out. You seem to know he has a lot more then what Topps would allow but you haven't told us why you know this. I want to know how to do this and why didn't you buy more sets then just 5 if you know the secret?
I also read you are pissed at Cardgary because you offered him $50 for a set of series 1. There were only 100 sets produced. $50 is an insult! I now have all 3 different sketch sets for series 1 by buying them from Cardgary. I paid a premium for those sketches and let's just say I paid a lot more then $50 and I wouldn't sell them less then $200 each. Yes Ern, I still have them in my collection and didn't flip them!

You just flat out don't read posts, I am going to start calling you ron 

Cardgary GAVE ME THE $50 price!!!!

OBIVOUSLY a way to try to trick Topps was to use alter addresses.  I decided to be honest and not do that.  We now know people like Quisp found ways to skirt the system, that is a fact that you seemed to be debating, not sure why you contine to debate it.  As to EXACTLY how Quisp did it, we all said we SPECULATE he had friends and family involved, maybe he knows of another way, that is worthy of debate.  Get it yet?

[BumChex]

You just flat out don't read posts, I am going to start calling you ron 

Cardgary GAVE ME THE $50 price!!!!

I am trying to read through about 20 new posts. I read the $50 dollar offer for series 1. If he offered that to you and you didn't take it then you are crazy! Why would you think that $50 was overvalued for series 1? Hell the set initially cost $35 and they only made 100. $50 is a steal!

[bandaches]

I am trying to read through about 20 new posts. I read the $50 dollar offer for series 1. If he offered that to you and you didn't take it then you are crazy! Why would you think that $50 was overvalued for series 1? Hell the set initially cost $35 and they only made 100. $50 is a steal!

He offered this price to many folks and it was posted on the old forum.  Again, a more careful read of my exact post, you will see me(and others) had qualms about supporting his making money on these.  Sometimes scruples wins out dude, that is a fact of life. 

[BumChex]

He offered this price to many folks and it was posted on the old forum.  Again, a more careful read of my exact post, you will see me(and others) had qualms about supporting his making money on these.  Sometimes scruples wins out dude, that is a fact of life. 

Scruples over $15 profit? I think you are the one that lost out on this deal. So when did scruples come into play with any deals you have done in the past?

[Duznt]

He offered this price to many folks and it was posted on the old forum.  Again, a more careful read of my exact post, you will see me(and others) had qualms about supporting his making money on these.  Sometimes scruples wins out dude, that is a fact of life. 

I am bummed now that I did not buy one from him for $75. Now there is no way to get one for less than double that (or more). It's the only LE set I don't have. I wasn't that interested in the postcard sets at first, then they grew on me. Now they are "must haves".

[BumChex]

I am bummed now that I did not buy one from him for $75. Now there is no way to get one for less than double that (or more). It's the only LE set I don't have. I wasn't that interested in the postcard sets at first, then they grew on me. Now they are "must haves".

Ern said it was only $50. Now you can really kick yourself

[JasonLiebig]

Scruples over $15 profit? I think you are the one that lost out on this deal. So when did scruples come into play with any deals you have done in the past?

I think the scruples was the buying up of large blocks of a 100 set release - that's something we can all agree on, I think.

In retrospect, and relative to where we now stand, of course, a $15 markup on LE postcard set seems pretty minor, though. 

[koduck]

Costs would be extremely minimal to increase the set number considering these are not stickers. Time would only affect the sketch cards as the paintings would still be done in the same time period. Quality would also only affect sketch cards for the same reason.

I respect your opinion, and I'm not adverse to increasing the run, but I'm not convinced the solution is that easy.

Let's put it this way:

 A) We've already stretched the budget well past the original specs (and with each set, the cost goes up). Even if we bumped up the run by just 150 sets, hypothetically, we're talking about 750 additional postcards, plus more bonus cards, artist cards, sketch cards, COAs and wrappers (which per piece are very pricey).

 B) it's not the painting or sketch cards that are effected by time constraints, but coordinating the details between all of the various artists. If we could open up a Dept of Minutia and hire 5 secretaries, I think we'd be all set! Any volunteers?!

Of course there are always options, such as charging more for a set -  but nobody really wants to go there! Then we'd get some really interesting letters! My main objective here is to get as many sets out without increasing the retail price. Anyway, we've already started weighing different options, some of which you've mentioned, so we'll see what makes the most sense over time.

[RawGoo]

I respect your opinion, and I'm not adverse to increasing the run, but I'm not convinced the solution is that easy.

Let's put it this way:

 A) We've already stretched the budget well past the original specs (and with each set, the cost goes up). Even if we bumped up the run by just 150 sets, hypothetically, we're talking about 750 additional postcards, plus more bonus cards, artist cards, sketch cards, COAs and wrappers (which per piece are very pricey).

 B) it's not the painting or sketch cards that are effected by time constraints, but coordinating the details between all of the various artists. If we could open up a Dept of Minutia and hire 5 secretaries, I think we'd be all set! Any volunteers?!

Of course there are always options, such as charging more for a set -  but nobody really wants to go there! Then we'd get some really interesting letters! My main objective here is to get as many sets out without increasing the retail price. Anyway, we've already started weighing different options, some of which you've mentioned, so we'll see what makes the most sense over time.

I'm pretty darn good at minutia, and was taught to volunteer at a very early age (which gets me in trouble at work all the time!) - shall I polish my resume?

[koduck]

No doubt, you'd be great! But I think you're more deserving of a higher position, such as Wacky Sketch Cards Executive Director.

[RawGoo]

No doubt, you'd be great! But I think you're more deserving of a higher position, such as Wacky Sketch Cards Executive Director.

My dream job!!  When can I start?!?  Actually, any job helping get Wackys out would be great.  Alas, my lot in life turned out to be sewage......  

[deadpresidentsvisa]

WOW!

Can we ASSUME any more? You are giving me shit for assuming and now you are doing the same. You subscribe to FACTS  but they don't obviously apply to this case (as you aren't calling out a full witch hunt)  because you are like the rest of us in trying to wrap our heads around this and how he got away from the Topps police.

I could see going for 10 sets but however many he ended up with pure gluttony.

[Bigmuc13]

I am bummed now that I did not buy one from him for $75. Now there is no way to get one for less than double that (or more). It's the only LE set I don't have. I wasn't that interested in the postcard sets at first, then they grew on me. Now they are "must haves".

It's funny how things change over time.  i remember when everyone thought he was nuts to buy all of those sets.  I know a lot of people were pissed, especially John F (is he on this board anymore?)  And lots of people boycotted the sales and said he would lose his shirt on these.  After sitting on them for a couple of years and then starting to sell them when a lot of people had all of the other series stuff but his one, he is making a killing.  I'm not saying I would do that, but gary is not a collector per se, he is in it to make money.  It looks like he guessed right on these after all.

[BumChex]

It's funny how things change over time.  i remember when everyone thought he was nuts to buy all of those sets.  I know a lot of people were pissed, especially John F (is he on this board anymore?)  And lots of people boycotted the sales and said he would lose his shirt on these.  After sitting on them for a couple of years and then starting to sell them when a lot of people had all of the other series stuff but his one, he is making a killing.  I'm not saying I would do that, but gary is not a collector per se, he is in it to make money.  It looks like he guessed right on these after all.

You are right. I didn't condone what he did by buying a bunch of the first series sets. Now I am not sure how many he actually bought. I got the other 2 sketches from him a year ago or so and John F was pissed that I would give this guy any money. I paid way more then $50 or $75 that Ern and Duznt claimed but I got them none the less. You guys can talk about morals and scruples all you want but if you are a collector then all you want is the cards. What does it matter now? So the guy bought a lot of the first release. He was taking a huge chance himself. These could have turned out to be nothing and he would be sitting on a pile of crap. It worked out that these are highly sought after since they were the first. If he had so many, as people have pointed out, why haven't they surfaced until now with his latest auction? Well, because, there is only 100 sets total! He doesn't have as many as people think. The last auction went for $209. I still think at that price it's a steal. There are only 100 sets made. These sets should be going for a lot more because of scarcity and the popularity of the new postcard sets. I would have thought his set would sell for around $300 or more. I have all 3 sketches and postcards from the 1st series and I won't let them go this cheap. Why should I, I have one of 33 sets available. I wonder how many collectors have a set?

[DrDeal]

I own one set of the first release and purchased it on the bay for about $90 when they first hit. I am not happy I paid three times what they cost when first sold but I am happy that they are in the binder and have no regrets. Having at least one sketch from each release is pretty important to my postcard collection.

DrDeal

You are right. I didn't condone what he did by buying a bunch of the first series sets. Now I am not sure how many he actually bought. I got the other 2 sketches from him a year ago or so and John F was pissed that I would give this guy any money. I paid way more then $50 or $75 that Ern and Duznt claimed but I got them none the less. You guys can talk about morals and scruples all you want but if you are a collector then all you want is the cards. What does it matter now? So the guy bought a lot of the first release. He was taking a huge chance himself. These could have turned out to be nothing and he would be sitting on a pile of crap. It worked out that these are highly sought after since they were the first. If he had so many, as people have pointed out, why haven't they surfaced until now with his latest auction? Well, because, there is only 100 sets total! He doesn't have as many as people think. The last auction went for $209. I still think at that price it's a steal. There are only 100 sets made. These sets should be going for a lot more because of scarcity and the popularity of the new postcard sets. I would have thought his set would sell for around $300 or more. I have all 3 sketches and postcards from the 1st series and I won't let them go this cheap. Why should I, I have one of 33 sets available. I wonder how many collectors have a set?

[JasonLiebig]

There are only 100 sets made...I have one of 33 sets available. I wonder how many collectors have a set?

This reminded me of a quote from Mark Twain I read some time ago.  As a passionate collector myself, I like to remember this bit of Twain wit, and laugh at myself, reminding me that it's all just a hobby, after all:

"No one puts bric-a-brac to any very practical purpose. There’s some human instinct which makes a man treasure what he is not to make any use of, because everybody does not possess it." -- From an interview, “Mark Twain in London,” London Chronicle, 3 June 1899, p.3. (Found at twainquoats.com.)"

[Monsterettes]

This reminded me of a quote from Mark Twain I read some time ago.  As a passionate collector myself, I like to remember this bit of Twain wit, and laugh at myself, reminding me that it's all just a hobby, after all:

"No one puts bric-a-brac to any very practical purpose. There’s some human instinct which makes a man treasure what he is not to make any use of, because everybody does not possess it." -- From an interview, “Mark Twain in London,” London Chronicle, 3 June 1899, p.3. (Found at twainquoats.com.)"

That's a great quote Jason, it never hurts to stop and laugh ourselves for a moment!

[Dr Popper]

I respect your opinion, and I'm not adverse to increasing the run, but I'm not convinced the solution is that easy.

Let's put it this way:

 A) We've already stretched the budget well past the original specs (and with each set, the cost goes up). Even if we bumped up the run by just 150 sets, hypothetically, we're talking about 750 additional postcards, plus more bonus cards, artist cards, sketch cards, COAs and wrappers (which per piece are very pricey).

 B) it's not the painting or sketch cards that are effected by time constraints, but coordinating the details between all of the various artists. If we could open up a Dept of Minutia and hire 5 secretaries, I think we'd be all set! Any volunteers?!

Of course there are always options, such as charging more for a set -  but nobody really wants to go there! Then we'd get some really interesting letters! My main objective here is to get as many sets out without increasing the retail price. Anyway, we've already started weighing different options, some of which you've mentioned, so we'll see what makes the most sense over time.

It's ironic that when these postcard sets first came out there were complaints on Greg's forum (I think Greg was one of them) who objected to the price being too high.  At the time it seemed like a reasonable debate, but now people are calling up long lost friends and relatives to get on a mailing list for them!  You can make your money back with just the bonus card for cripes sake!  Unfortunately this hobby is not all about collecting, and there will be those who put their priority into making a profit, which is not what the hobby should be about.

[Dr Popper]

No doubt, you'd be great! But I think you're more deserving of a higher position, such as Wacky Sketch Cards Executive Director.

I volunteer for "Mailing Management Coordinator".  I will make sure the next series doesn't get LOST in the mail!!!  LOL

[Dr Popper]

I would have thought his set would sell for around $300 or more. I have all 3 sketches and postcards from the 1st series and I won't let them go this cheap.

You are right on about the value, but why would you let them go at all? 

[BumChex]

You are right on about the value, but why would you let them go at all? 

I didn't say they were for sale I just meant I wouldn't sell them cheap if I were to sell them.

[BumChex]

This reminded me of a quote from Mark Twain I read some time ago.  As a passionate collector myself, I like to remember this bit of Twain wit, and laugh at myself, reminding me that it's all just a hobby, after all:

"No one puts bric-a-brac to any very practical purpose. There’s some human instinct which makes a man treasure what he is not to make any use of, because everybody does not possess it." -- From an interview, “Mark Twain in London,” London Chronicle, 3 June 1899, p.3. (Found at twainquoats.com.)"

This is true. I don't collect the really tough wacky stuff such as the wacky stationary or the glasses. To me it's all about the cards although I don't own any of the super limited Irish cards.

[FourRoses]

If he had so many, as people have pointed out, why haven't they surfaced until now with his latest auction? Well, because, there is only 100 sets total! He doesn't have as many as people think.

With any hobby, there is a time to sit on what you have and a time to sell.

Wacky Packages seems very hot right now and we see alot of things on ebay in greater quantities than usual. There (recently) would be a time when you'd see items from the vault auctioned only by the vault (with a few odds and ends sold by those who bought from the vault). Now, look at how many private sellers are selling proof cards, black and whites, etc..,

Who knows how many sets this individual has but if he has alot, I suspect we'll see them now.

[Dr Popper]

With any hobby, there is a time to sit on what you have and a time to sell.

Wacky Packages seems very hot right now and we see alot of things on ebay in greater quantities than usual. There (recently) would be a time when you'd see items from the vault auctioned only by the vault (with a few odds and ends sold by those who bought from the vault). Now, look at how many private sellers are selling proof cards, black and whites, etc..,

Who knows how many sets this individual has but if he has alot, I suspect we'll see them now.

There are a ton of auctions on ebay now as compared to the way it was several years ago.  Of course it doesn't help when someone lists a complete set of Flashback base cards individually!

[Dr Popper]

I didn't say they were for sale I just meant I wouldn't sell them cheap if I were to sell them.

I would definitely hang on to them.  They become more and more desirable as more postcard series keep coming out.