Author Topic: Have we seen the end of sketches?  (Read 10835 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline BumChex

  • Wacky Packages Forum
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 8327
Have we seen the end of sketches?
« on: December 09, 2013, 09:05:47 PM »
The sketches have always been a motivator for most collectors. When OLDS4 was released opening it up for all characters I felt this was the end for sketches because everyone can get most of the characters. Then ANS10 & 11 allowed all characters. Now with Leslie exiting the sketch collecting the prices have hit rock bottom and we have now seen the PCs and binders not selling out. The sketches aren't the draw. In the past you could feed your collecting habits by selling off the color sketches for big bucks. It was like pulling a golden ticket. Those days are done.

Offline DrDeal

  • Posts: 3414
Re: Have we seen the end of sketches?
« Reply #1 on: December 10, 2013, 03:12:08 AM »
I remember pulling a color and getting $600 for it on the bay. No way that could last. I think Topps may go the route of doing some rare cards which are inserted in boxes of cards that bring the "lottery" feel to your purchase.  They need to give you some impetus to buy Collector boxes/ OS Boxes or limited postcards. Sketches no longer fit the bill. I vote for lenticular or gold foil classic wacky titles.  Do an assortment of rare cards and you get one per box. I know they already do bonus cards in ANS but this could be another "chase" card set. 

Andrew

Offline koduck

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 2579
  • Make it snappy!
Re: Have we seen the end of sketches?
« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2013, 03:56:29 AM »
Have we seen the end of sketches?

No. Like most things in the hobby, it's cyclical. As long as the artists stay inspired, sketch cards will be in demand from collectors. My 2 cents...
« Last Edit: December 10, 2013, 04:07:11 AM by koduck »

Offline Paul_Maul

  • Posts: 3333
Re: Have we seen the end of sketches?
« Reply #3 on: December 10, 2013, 07:08:14 AM »
Have we seen the end of sketches?

No. Like most things in the hobby, it's cyclical. As long as the artists stay inspired, sketch cards will be in demand from collectors. My 2 cents...

I disagree. I think fans will always admire nice sketches, but they aren't particularly well suited to the collector mentality and I can see interest in collecting them fading.

Offline koduck

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 2579
  • Make it snappy!
Re: Have we seen the end of sketches?
« Reply #4 on: December 10, 2013, 07:16:34 AM »
I disagree. I think fans will always admire nice sketches, but they aren't particularly well suited to the collector mentality and I can see interest in collecting them fading.

I agree to disagree  ;) but only time will tell...

Offline Kook

  • Posts: 1107
Re: Have we seen the end of sketches?
« Reply #5 on: December 10, 2013, 08:30:27 AM »
The sketches have always been a motivator for most collectors. When OLDS4 was released opening it up for all characters I felt this was the end for sketches because everyone can get most of the characters. Then ANS10 & 11 allowed all characters. Now with Leslie exiting the sketch collecting the prices have hit rock bottom and we have now seen the PCs and binders not selling out. The sketches aren't the draw. In the past you could feed your collecting habits by selling off the color sketches for big bucks. It was like pulling a golden ticket. Those days are done.

I see things a little differently. I don't think it was so much which sketch titles are available in a release, I think it's primarily how many sketches are out there. There are now 10s of thousands of sketches. I remember back in the olds1 days, a color sketch was a rare thing. It was a prize & commanded a premium. That has been so diluted by the glut of sketches in every wacky product or series that the rarity is totally gone. When you initially think you can get a hand drawn sketch of a character you like by a wacky artist, your first thought is WOW (or at least mine was). When you scroll through ebay & see thousands of marginal sketches by a long list of artists, the WOW factor is gone.

In addition to the glut, the ratio of nice or "prized" sketches to average or doodle class sketches is (IMO) about 10% to 20%. As the number of artists have increased, and the sketches per release has skyrocketed, the overall quality of the sketches has declined (IMO). Think about the sharp 100% Jay Lynch olds1 sketches. Even the ones Jay did 200 of are much nicer than the majority of newer doodles. The blue line fiasco of OLDs2 foreshadowed what was to come by showing how hard it is to put out the quality the collector expects in a quantity Topps needs to make a profit. 

The large number of titles has some effect. Since skyrocketing the number of titles makes it impossible to collect a sketch "of each title" Topps has undermined the very nature of many, not most or all, but many wacky collectors - being a completest. I can only speak for myself, but not being able to collect 1 of each title, or 1 of each character started to undermine my drive to collect. I love wackys, but primarily the vintage ones. I collected ANS etc.. wackys because I love vintage ones & the new ones were there - they were nice & it was a challenge to keep up & "collect 'em all". I did it for many years. I collected the new ones more on autopilot because they were wackys & because they were there.

ANS11 was the nail in my completest coffin. There were just too many exceptions to reasonably collect 'em all. Starting as far back as the flashbacks I became ok with having 1 gold example. Then having 1 sketch was ok for ANS7, then 1 red Ludlow in ans10. Now with the back variations, red ludlows, gold borders, artist autos & so many other sets it takes a long master list to track them, I just opted out. I could no longer devote the time (I used to substitute time for $$ by buying & selling to manage the cost of collecting which has gotten progressively more difficult, if not impossible) and I had no desire, nor the available funds to spend thousands of dollars chasing all this stuff. I had a little withdrawal. I broke down & bought an ANS11 base set, more out of momentum than anything else. After I bought it, it did nothing for me. The completest spell had been broken. The wacky emperor had no clothes.

Since then, I have ended up taking 1 step further & decided to sell all my post 2004 wacky collection to focus on the vintage side of collecting - the part that makes me feel like a kid again. New wackys were a fun ride, but for me, it's time to move on...

In a nutshell, Topps took 4 steps in breaking my ANS wacky spell (in descending order of importance)
1. Glut of items including sketches (too much stuff),
2. rarity of many items making completism  impossible (not possible to collect 'em all),
3. continually increasing prices with continually decreasing value (financial squeeze i.e. collector cases, binder release, ltd editions increasing in number & cost...)
4. declining ratio of nice sketches to overall sketches (quality decline)

Brad, do you have any idea why Leslie is dumping everything? Is she also dumping her vintage stuff too?

Offline JasonLiebig

  • Posts: 1791
    • CollectingCandy.com
Re: Have we seen the end of sketches?
« Reply #6 on: December 10, 2013, 08:33:31 AM »
I don't think there's any doubt that quality sketches will always be an appealing and fun collectible.  

Where I see BumChex and Dr. Deal's point is beyond an enjoyable little sketch, what will they represent to the market?  

Wacky Packages Old School was (and is) in my opinion, a great idea.  A stripped down set meant to appeal to collectors.  Priced at a bit of a premium, but with a limited print run  structure that allowed it to be something fun for the hobby, and something fun and relatively affordable to keep up with.  

I see Wacky Packages Postcards in much the same way (though I always felt Old School to have a far more appealing core value).  A nice affordable collectible, that fed the hobby in a fun way.  

But due to the limited nature of the hobby and the initial print runs on both, I do think that a select group of sketch-buyers up-ended what was working for both those series in many ways.  When color sketches were commanding dollar values that rivaled original paintings, people started to chase them by doing the obvious thing - buying more boxes (and in some instances cases) of Old School simply to get a shot at more sketches.  

Once that happened, Topps upped the print-runs to meet demand.  But that was never a demand for the Old School product - it was a demand for sketches.  It was a demand for some collectors buying 50 boxes of Old School or more.  And finally with the Artists-on-Demand program, in my assessment Topps was attempting to meet a perception of a demand that was not real - it was created by market forces that have since left the marketplace.  Not that an Artists-on-Demand program can't work - there's still a core value to having an artist create a neat sketch that you can have.  But if the program is structured around the perceived demand and value for sketches that was created by the market of 2011 - than it damages the programs chances to surviving.  

We've seen this happen in other collectible markets (like comic books - a market correct I lived through and witnessed from the publishing side).  

In my opinion, Old School should be structured and priced in such a way that it does not require multiple box purchases by a large number of collectors.  The same can be said for the post card sets.  

My fear is that, rather than try to look at structuring (print run and cost-wise) these series in a way that the core value meets existing collector demand, Topps will rather look for something that can replace the sketches and continue to drive multiple box purchases in the way that sketch cards once did.  

I'm sure there's a middle ground between my ideal and the chase for limited items that has driven some of these.  
« Last Edit: December 10, 2013, 08:36:55 AM by JasonLiebig »
Jason Liebig - A swell TV host (currently on History Channel) who used to oversee Marvel Comics' X-Men - now creator and curator of WishbookWeb.com and CollectingCandy.com, a celebration of candy packaging, marketing and the people behind it all

Offline Kook

  • Posts: 1107
Re: Have we seen the end of sketches?
« Reply #7 on: December 10, 2013, 08:41:22 AM »
I disagree. I think fans will always admire nice sketches, but they aren't particularly well suited to the collector mentality and I can see interest in collecting them fading.

I agree that I will always admire the nice sketches. Neil did some great ones for this past Halloween release. His recent multi-os character sketches are fantastic too. I do enjoy looking at them, and will always appreciate the beautifully detailed sketches over the doodles. I also agree that outside of being part of a wacky release, I have a hard time fitting them into a collection. I see collecting sketches as almost a side hobby. If they were scarce, they would be a nice rarity in a wacky collection - as an odd & end, but the glut has almost created a sub-hobby of just collecting sketches which works for some & not for others.

I would say more people would or could collect sketches as art, not necessarily the way we collect wackys.

Offline BumChex

  • Wacky Packages Forum
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 8327
Re: Have we seen the end of sketches?
« Reply #8 on: December 10, 2013, 09:25:20 AM »


Brad, do you have any idea why Leslie is dumping everything? Is she also dumping her vintage stuff too?
I don't think she is selling any vintage stuff. I don't want to speak for her so I can't really tell you why she is selling. People have various reason's of why they do what they do. I know the reason's but it's a privacy thing.

Offline BumChex

  • Wacky Packages Forum
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 8327
Re: Have we seen the end of sketches?
« Reply #9 on: December 10, 2013, 09:40:20 AM »
Great points everyone. I agree with everything said (except for Neil's post...LOL :P). I also think ANS11 was the tipping point for a lot of collectors. The only great thing out of ANS11 was the patches. That alone wouldn't be enough incentive to drive multiple box sales. Even Blowout Cards is selling ANS11 collector cases for $260 now.
I love great sketches also but there is a time when you say I think I've had enough. I must have just about every character or at least the ones I care about. I also have around 500 sketch cards.
It's funny because I look at the color sketches Leslie has up for auction and think these are a great bargain and then I see them not selling and think there is no value in these any more.  I know she is losing a lot of money with her auctions. I'm sure she paid upwards of $300+ for her color sketches. She probably spent $600-$1500 each for her OLDS1 colors and she has now lowered her auction for $275 per card. They won't sell that high.

Offline Joe G.

  • Posts: 1633
Re: Have we seen the end of sketches?
« Reply #10 on: December 10, 2013, 09:50:49 AM »
I think there will always be demand for unique and cool items, whether they are sketches or a nice insert, like the patches.  I've found that there is not much value in trying to predict where things will go.  I will always buy sketches and love getting sketches from new artists.  Ron Comes and Dustin's sketches from ANS 11 are great and I look forward to seeing the new artists Topps adds to the Wacky line.  That said Mike and Neil have added some amazing artists to the Ugly Santa AOD and the work is fantastic.  You should check them out on the Topps site and the Topps Vault listings on eBay.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2013, 08:12:47 PM by Joe G. »

Offline sco(o)t

  • Posts: 4489
  • Looking:Postcard Ser4 BUGWEISER Smokin' Joe sketch
Re: Have we seen the end of sketches?
« Reply #11 on: December 10, 2013, 01:39:20 PM »
I don't think she is selling any vintage stuff. I don't want to speak for her so I can't really tell you why she is selling. People have various reason's of why they do what they do. I know the reason's but it's a privacy thing.

Well, for whatever reason, I thank her, for it allowed me to complete my BLUE BEANIE artist sketch run for OS2. Was able to pick up the Smokin' Joe and Simko sketches I was short.
aka Scot Leibacher (no trademark)

Offline ClubbedCanadian

  • Posts: 109
Re: Have we seen the end of sketches?
« Reply #12 on: December 10, 2013, 05:31:26 PM »
I don't think she is selling any vintage stuff. I don't want to speak for her so I can't really tell you why she is selling. People have various reason's of why they do what they do. I know the reason's but it's a privacy thing.

Well she's still bidding on sketches,,so is she really all done?
Sure don't look like it to me...maybe just bored of the ones she has  :sad:
« Last Edit: December 10, 2013, 09:25:59 PM by ClubbedCanadian »

Offline Zenergizer

  • Posts: 1099
Re: Have we seen the end of sketches?
« Reply #13 on: December 10, 2013, 07:52:29 PM »
I personally love the sketches, and know that it's a lot of work for the artists, and it's always appreciated!

I don't think the sketches are a problem at all with the current sets.  If anything, it's just that there are
too dang many border variations.  Mind you, I absolutely LOVE the collector boxes and all the goodies
in there, it's just tough to make complete sets of anything anymore!

But keep bringing 'em on! 

Offline BumChex

  • Wacky Packages Forum
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 8327
Re: Have we seen the end of sketches?
« Reply #14 on: December 10, 2013, 09:38:13 PM »
I personally love the sketches, and know that it's a lot of work for the artists, and it's always appreciated!

I don't think the sketches are a problem at all with the current sets.  If anything, it's just that there are
too dang many border variations.  Mind you, I absolutely LOVE the collector boxes and all the goodies
in there, it's just tough to make complete sets of anything anymore!

But keep bringing 'em on! 

There has to be a draw for collectors to buy more than a couple boxes. What would it take? I know a couple big collectors that don't buy boxes or cases. They only buy the inserts they need. They don't want to deal with the random pulls and inventory. They actually rely on others to crack packs and sell the inserts. That could be compelling to collectors to sell off the inserts but it's also a huge risk because they may have them already. Hence the high dollars for golds and red Luds initially and then they don't sell. The sketches are unique and also a matter of taste. So if its a great sketch but not your taste you can try and sell it for a good return. That has now changed. Sketches aren't selling for what they should be worth. I sold several on eBay for $.99. That sucks! It totally turns you off. I would have been better off just throwing them away.
I've always been an advocate for sketches and that won't change. As mentioned, it's like having a little piece of art in your hands. The thing that I'm getting at is sketches are not the draw now. Prices have dropped dramatically and now there really is no perceived value as in the past. In the past I could see a sketch and know right away how much it should be worth but now seeing these amazing Camera sketches Leslie is selling and getting no bites really makes you think. I want them all but I'm holding back to see what they go for or even if they sell.

Offline JasonLiebig

  • Posts: 1791
    • CollectingCandy.com
Re: Have we seen the end of sketches?
« Reply #15 on: December 10, 2013, 09:52:05 PM »
There has to be a draw for collectors to buy more than a couple boxes.

In my opinion this is a fundamentally flawed business model.

It inevitably leads to the kind of perceived-value implosions you currently see occurring with sketch cards, and it always occurs - doesn't it?  Though I suppose if the hobby's reliance on chase cards was going to wane, it would have happened a decade ago. 

Perhaps the model of creating a well-designed and entertaining set of cards/stickers and having it sell on those merits alone is an outdated concept.   Perhaps it doesn't apply to adult collectors combined with a significantly reduced consumer base.   
Jason Liebig - A swell TV host (currently on History Channel) who used to oversee Marvel Comics' X-Men - now creator and curator of WishbookWeb.com and CollectingCandy.com, a celebration of candy packaging, marketing and the people behind it all

Offline quas

  • Posts: 1806
Re: Have we seen the end of sketches?
« Reply #16 on: December 11, 2013, 05:42:15 AM »
The sketches have always been a motivator for most collectors. When OLDS4 was released opening it up for all characters I felt this was the end for sketches because everyone can get most of the characters. Then ANS10 & 11 allowed all characters. Now with Leslie exiting the sketch collecting the prices have hit rock bottom and we have now seen the PCs and binders not selling out. The sketches aren't the draw. In the past you could feed your collecting habits by selling off the color sketches for big bucks. It was like pulling a golden ticket. Those days are done.
I personally think the OS3 model of a limited number (say 20-25) of characters was a good one, because then each artist could go to town and be creative and draw as many variations on that character as the artist saw fit.  Some were much more varied than others; Camera, Kirscht, Smokin Joe, Wheaton, and especially Mark Parisi and Joe Simko produced a lot of variations while BHOB and Griffith did not (nor did Engstrom, but he was amazing in ANS9).  Jay Lynch is certainly capable of doing variations as we saw with OS3 Pig Boy and the OS1 Nitwits but Topps has not fully utilized his talents.  He definitely excels at Wackies with captions (as does Parisi).  The limited number model has been used consistently for the postcard sketches, including Halloween postcard sketches, and seems to work well for those series.  The problem with opening up the field to all Wacky characters has been that with some exceptions the sketches have been pretty much "standard".  Sometimes a sketch so much resembles the original that it's "too good" and there is not that much point to trying to obtain it.  Smokin' Joes, Kirschts, and Simkos never seem to have had that issue.  Then there is the opposite, where a sketch focuses on some less obvious part of a Wacky and a collector like myself has trouble identifying which Wacky it is without asking other collectors or going through tons of images one by one.  Gambino and Colin Walton in OS4 come to mind there.

Sorry, just a lot of disorganized rambling...
Marc

Offline RawGoo

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 7061
Re: Have we seen the end of sketches?
« Reply #17 on: December 11, 2013, 06:46:25 AM »
I personally think the OS3 model of a limited number (say 20-25) of characters was a good one, because then each artist could go to town and be creative and draw as many variations on that character as the artist saw fit.  Some were much more varied than others; Camera, Kirscht, Smokin Joe, Wheaton, and especially Mark Parisi and Joe Simko produced a lot of variations while BHOB and Griffith did not (nor did Engstrom, but he was amazing in ANS9).  Jay Lynch is certainly capable of doing variations as we saw with OS3 Pig Boy and the OS1 Nitwits but Topps has not fully utilized his talents.  He definitely excels at Wackies with captions (as does Parisi).  The limited number model has been used consistently for the postcard sketches, including Halloween postcard sketches, and seems to work well for those series.  The problem with opening up the field to all Wacky characters has been that with some exceptions the sketches have been pretty much "standard".  Sometimes a sketch so much resembles the original that it's "too good" and there is not that much point to trying to obtain it.  Smokin' Joes, Kirschts, and Simkos never seem to have had that issue.  Then there is the opposite, where a sketch focuses on some less obvious part of a Wacky and a collector like myself has trouble identifying which Wacky it is without asking other collectors or going through tons of images one by one.  Gambino and Colin Walton in OS4 come to mind there.

Sorry, just a lot of disorganized rambling...

I agree with a lot of what both you and Kook have said.  Some rambling of my own:

Old School 1 sketches were all well done, and there was always the chance of pulling one of the 50 colors, or one of Jay's one-offs.  The limited number of Old School sketch titles make it possible for people to try to get one of each.

The same worked with postcard sets, except for the occasional title such as Hoppy Meal or H8 that would be really tough.

I was never happy with sketches being inserted into ANS Wackys - that definitely got the pack searchers interested, and it seemed like the titles were all over the map.  I didn't even try to get one example from each series, although I did end up with some examples as RawGoo titles showed up.  From what's on ebay, it seems that the sketch quality on the more recent ANS sets is also widely varied, which is only going to result in unsold product as dealers lose money hunting for big money incredible sketches that Topps couldn't include because they overproduced.

I liked the Killing Croc sketches in PC6 that used Original Series characters.  But, the use of previous titles without tie-ins to PC9 titles really bothered me with PC9 sketches, and basically killed the 'get one of each title in a postcard series' possibility.  I'm still trying with Halloween 2013, since that stayed within the series, but expect to give up shortly since two titles seem to be tough, and PC9 killed my 'complete' run anyway.  

Then there are the clunkers.........  I have pulled some absolutely gorgeous sketches, and a whole lot of very solid sketches.  Some are beautifully detailed representations of the main character.  Some that I really enjoy may be less detailed, but there's something creative or otherwise special about it.  The best are a combination of both.  But, a doodle of a character with nothing else but a title name written on the card just doesn't cut it for LE products in this price range.  I believe the doodles are the reason that there are still 149 Halloween LE PC sets still available after more than a month, including a Black Friday sale.  Sadly, I fear the doodles have driven away some serious collectors, and that this can only hurt the future of new Wackys.  I hope that Topps will recognize this, and respond by reducing print runs to a level that their artists will be able to meet while also providing quality sketches.

Although this thread is about sketches, I must also mention sticker variations, as Topps went way too far with ANS11, and I believe this is also responsible for previously devoted collectors giving up, which cannot help but influence the sketch card issue as they decline to spend their money.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2013, 06:57:19 AM by RawGoo »

Offline Paul_Maul

  • Posts: 3333
Re: Have we seen the end of sketches?
« Reply #18 on: December 11, 2013, 07:22:55 AM »
In my opinion this is a fundamentally flawed business model.

It inevitably leads to the kind of perceived-value implosions you currently see occurring with sketch cards, and it always occurs - doesn't it?  Though I suppose if the hobby's reliance on chase cards was going to wane, it would have happened a decade ago. 

Perhaps the model of creating a well-designed and entertaining set of cards/stickers and having it sell on those merits alone is an outdated concept.   Perhaps it doesn't apply to adult collectors combined with a significantly reduced consumer base.   

I remember making this argument a few years ago. That the reliance on sketches and chase cards to sell boxes would turn off conventional collectors, so that once big case buyers got tired of sketches and ultra rare chase cards the market would be dead. At the time I don't remember too many people agreeing, but we seem to be going down that road incrementally.

Offline Kook

  • Posts: 1107
Re: Have we seen the end of sketches?
« Reply #19 on: December 11, 2013, 08:53:07 AM »
I believe the doodles are the reason that there are still 149 Halloween LE PC sets still available after more than a month, including a Black Friday sale.  Sadly, I fear the doodles have driven away some serious collectors, and that this can only hurt the future of new Wackys.  I hope that Topps will recognize this, and respond by reducing print runs to a level that their artists will be able to meet while also providing quality sketches.


I doubt they will lower the numbers. My guess is, if they do attribute sagging sales to poor sketch quality, they will try to squeeze the artist to a higher standard keeping all else constant. Unfortunately, with the quantity of sketches out there, I don't see the market returning to previous conditions.


Offline Fanatical_and_Sickly

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 5690
Re: Have we seen the end of sketches?
« Reply #21 on: December 11, 2013, 05:01:24 PM »
Jeopardy style:

A: This made me happy and sick, all at the same time.

Q: What is Shadenfreude?

Offline Jean Nutty

  • Posts: 3377
Re: Have we seen the end of sketches?
« Reply #22 on: December 12, 2013, 02:07:39 PM »
I realize sketches are meant as chasers and are intended to drive customers to buy more product.

BUT, I like this alternative idea (which goes against this marketing strategy). Topps gets the artists to each submit a few dozen sketches, and Topps cherry picks the best from each group, and creates a set of sketches (reproduced) that are a subset for the series. Either printed stickers, or cards. I’d prefer cards. I’d chase reproduced sketch cards long before I’d chase swill like border variations.   

On a related note, regarding the “psychology of collecting”…

Part of what appeals to some collectors about sketches is the warm ego-massaging feeling that, “I’ve got something that nobody else has” AKA, the “1 of 1 Phenomenon” which can occur in any type of collecting. So often the most prized parts of someone’s collection are the rare and valuable pieces. It’s tricky not to fall into this cerebral sticky trap. I wonder if the cumulative volume of sketches over time has created a type of “sketch fatigue” and they have lost some of their special unique quality.   

Offline Joe G.

  • Posts: 1633
Re: Have we seen the end of sketches?
« Reply #23 on: December 12, 2013, 02:15:08 PM »
I realize sketches are meant as chasers and are intended to drive customers to buy more product.

BUT, I like this alternative idea (which goes against this marketing strategy). Topps gets the artists to each submit a few dozen sketches, and Topps cherry picks the best from each group, and creates a set of sketches (reproduced) that are a subset for the series. Either printed stickers, or cards. I’d prefer cards. I’d chase reproduced sketch cards long before I’d chase swill like border variations.   

On a related note, regarding the “psychology of collecting”…

Part of what appeals to some collectors about sketches is the warm ego-massaging feeling that, “I’ve got something that nobody else has” AKA, the “1 of 1 Phenomenon” which can occur in any type of collecting. So often the most prized parts of someone’s collection are the rare and valuable pieces. It’s tricky not to fall into this cerebral sticky trap. I wonder if the cumulative volume of sketches over time has created a type of “sketch fatigue” and they have lost some of their special unique quality.   


Rob, that is a neat idea.  It would be cool to have fans vote on the Top Ten sketch cards from the past and then include them, signed as a subset.  It might be a great addition to the next Old School, since that is what really kicked off the Wacky sketch craze.

Offline bigtomi

  • Posts: 2158
Re: Have we seen the end of sketches?
« Reply #24 on: December 12, 2013, 03:05:09 PM »
Rob, that is a neat idea.  It would be cool to have fans vote on the Top Ten sketch cards from the past and then include them, signed as a subset.  It might be a great addition to the next Old School, since that is what really kicked off the Wacky sketch craze.
As someone who is extremely neutral (is that an oxymoron?) on sketches in general, I'm not sure this idea is so great. Isn't the whole idea to have something actually hand-drawn by the artist? Seems to me distributing printed copies is like Xeroxing the Mona Lisa. Well, not exactly, but I think you get my drift...

My recollection is that the sketch thing began with PC1, not OLDS1. I suppose it didn't get big until OLDS1, though. Am I incorrect on that one? Anyone? Bueller?

Offline koduck

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 2579
  • Make it snappy!
Re: Have we seen the end of sketches?
« Reply #25 on: December 12, 2013, 04:25:13 PM »
It might be a great addition to the next Old School, since that is what really kicked off the Wacky sketch craze.

Actually, it was Wacky postcard series 4 when we introduced multiple artists ;)...

Offline Jean Nutty

  • Posts: 3377
Re: Have we seen the end of sketches?
« Reply #26 on: December 12, 2013, 07:14:43 PM »
Isn't the whole idea to have something actually hand-drawn by the artist?

Yes, that’s the angle they’ve taken, and this idea is diametrically opposed to that concept.     I think this is the first time in my life I’ve used the term “diametrically”.
 
I’m kind of playing devil’s advocate (he needs some support sometimes) and pondering if I could enjoy the sketches as much as I do if they were not originals. I enjoy the stickers and don’t own original art. 

BTW, I’d like to see more sketch posters, like the Old School 1 & 2 poster. Sketch posters have been discussed here a few times and the idea is popular.

I have this bootleg card Dr. Popper made (from an Old School poster) on display with a bunch of my other “genuine” sketches and it doesn’t seem to bother me.
 
                                         

Offline Alexeirex

  • Posts: 1208
Re: Have we seen the end of sketches?
« Reply #27 on: December 12, 2013, 09:43:21 PM »
I agree with a lot of what both you and Kook have said.  Some rambling of my own:







I liked the Killing Croc sketches in PC6 that used Original Series characters.  But, the use of previous titles without tie-ins to PC9 titles really bothered me with PC9 sketches, and basically killed the 'get one of each title in a postcard series' possibility.  I'm still trying with Halloween 2013, since that stayed within the series, but expect to give up shortly since two titles seem to be tough, and PC9 killed my 'complete' run anyway.  

Then there are the clunkers.........  I have pulled some absolutely gorgeous sketches, and a whole lot of very solid sketches.  Some are beautifully detailed representations of the main character.  Some that I really enjoy may be less detailed, but there's something creative or otherwise special about it.  The best are a combination of both.  But, a doodle of a character with nothing else but a title name written on the card just doesn't cut it for LE products in this price range.  I believe the doodles are the reason that there are still 149 Halloween LE PC sets still available after more than a month, including a Black Friday sale.  Sadly, I fear the doodles have driven away some serious collectors

There are 2 sketches that are harder to find for the 2013 Halloween PCs? I find that there is one harder to find, esp on a sketch that I actually want to keep. Getting all of the characters from PC9, except for Corn Flames, seems to be a bit harder, and still hoping there's a Booty Pebbles out there.
Agree with you about the clunkers - it's kept me from getting more sets even when they were on sale...
A


Offline sco(o)t

  • Posts: 4489
  • Looking:Postcard Ser4 BUGWEISER Smokin' Joe sketch
Re: Have we seen the end of sketches?
« Reply #28 on: December 13, 2013, 03:49:05 PM »
Its snowing here and we are finishing packing for the drive down to Orlando tomorrow for a week of vacation. Just opened the mail and received in some items I purchased from Leslie on eBay. This puts the finishing touches to my OS2 bevy of Blue Beanie beauties. Take a gander (or a goose):





aka Scot Leibacher (no trademark)

Offline quas

  • Posts: 1806
Re: Have we seen the end of sketches?
« Reply #29 on: December 13, 2013, 04:58:48 PM »
Its snowing here and we are finishing packing for the drive down to Orlando tomorrow for a week of vacation. Just opened the mail and received in some items I purchased from Leslie on eBay. This puts the finishing touches to my OS2 bevy of Blue Beanie beauties. Take a gander (or a goose):







Love the Simko's!
Marc

Offline Joe G.

  • Posts: 1633
Re: Have we seen the end of sketches?
« Reply #30 on: December 15, 2013, 06:51:30 PM »
Its snowing here and we are finishing packing for the drive down to Orlando tomorrow for a week of vacation. Just opened the mail and received in some items I purchased from Leslie on eBay. This puts the finishing touches to my OS2 bevy of Blue Beanie beauties. Take a gander (or a goose):







Scot, that is awesome.  I was able to get Dave Gross and Parisi Ka-Boos from Leslie which just leaves me needing a Zapata.  If anyone has an Olds 2 Zapata Ka-Boo for trade or sale please PM me. 

Offline Monsterettes

  • Posts: 588
Re: Have we seen the end of sketches?
« Reply #31 on: December 16, 2013, 06:33:49 PM »
Its snowing here and we are finishing packing for the drive down to Orlando tomorrow for a week of vacation. Just opened the mail and received in some items I purchased from Leslie on eBay. This puts the finishing touches to my OS2 bevy of Blue Beanie beauties. Take a gander (or a goose):






Love the Simko's!
I love those Simko's too, great work. I like pencil sketches in general -- here is an example of how pencil sketches can be just as creative as pen / ink drawings.  Looser and, arguably, more fun.  Long live the Beanie!

Offline BumChex

  • Wacky Packages Forum
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 8327
Re: Have we seen the end of sketches?
« Reply #32 on: December 16, 2013, 07:08:36 PM »
Leslie has a nice color Beanie on eBay now.

Offline FourRoses

  • Posts: 713
Re: Have we seen the end of sketches?
« Reply #33 on: December 17, 2013, 09:57:11 AM »

In addition to the glut, the ratio of nice or "prized" sketches to average or doodle class sketches is (IMO) about 10% to 20%. As the number of artists have increased, and the sketches per release has skyrocketed, the overall quality of the sketches has declined (IMO). Think about the sharp 100% Jay Lynch olds1 sketches. Even the ones Jay did 200 of are much nicer than the majority of newer doodles. The blue line fiasco of OLDs2 foreshadowed what was to come by showing how hard it is to put out the quality the collector expects in a quantity Topps needs to make a profit. 

A few things:

1.) B&W sketches (depending on the artist) have grown to the point of rivaling the once prized and coveted color sketch.
2.) Inconsistency comes into play. You have a few artists seemingly giving their all with each sketch they produce but you also have a few people who appear to offer more crap than quality. People see such an observation and don't want to risk dropping a good deal of money on a gamble.
3.) Touching again on quality I believe any set that guarantees a sketch card should provide something memorable and not junk. When you have something like ANS 9, 10, 11, etc.., any sketch you get should be appreciated since the odds of pulling one are very slim.

Offline Paul_Maul

  • Posts: 3333
Re: Have we seen the end of sketches?
« Reply #34 on: December 17, 2013, 10:44:25 AM »
When you have something like ANS 9, 10, 11, etc.., any sketch you get should be appreciated since the odds of pulling one are very slim.

Just because you pull something rare, you should be happy regardless of the quality?