OS 1 - 16 Binder Purchase Recap

[BumChex]

I was just thinking about this last night and it would have been great if Topps would have added a lost wacky to each binder so in the end you would have 17 lost wackys to put in your lost wacky binder.

[Tic_Toc]

I was just thinking about this last night and it would have been great if Topps would have added a lost wacky to each binder so in the end you would have 17 lost wackys to put in your lost wacky binder.

That would have been a great addition, and helped justify the high price of the binders.  Alas, too late now...

[Tic_Toc]

Out of curiousity, does having an archival binder make any difference with Wackys? Isn't it the archival page that is the most important? You could still have archival pages in the Wacky binders. I think most collectors now use archival quality baseball card pages.
I have used hingeless stamp albums with archival acid free pages and preset mounts for years, but don't recall the binders and slipcases being archival.
A

I'm not quite getting the whole "archival" aspect of the binders.  The stickers themselves were not printed on archival quality stock, so it seems likely that they will break down over time (even if they are stored in archival quality sleeves).  And any binder made now is likely to outlast any of us, unless they're made of inferior plastics, which I assume is not the case with the new Topps binders.

[Kook]

That would have been a great addition, and helped justify the high price of the binders.  Alas, too late now...

They could always play catchup with a couple of extra bonus cards in the next release 

I think it would also be neat if they had an 8-1/2" x 11" sticker backed sheet with art or info or something to stick on the inside of the first 4 binders as a retro fit.

[Paul_Maul]

I would agree with you here Dave. Vintage stuff is vintage stuff, and new is new. These are not Norm Saunders murals put on these binders, and even if they were, it would still be a product from 2013. These binders are a stand alone product. That's not to say they won't or can't enhance a vintage collection. They can, just like an os 1 to 16 run is certainly more appealing in an NSU binder set than in binders from Staples. The difference is that when you pull the sets from the binders, there's not a chance that people won't want the wackys because they are not in the binders. The binders add value to the extent that they are valued. The binders & os stickers really have nothing to do with each other and I think it's nothing more than "the sum of the parts".

I also think that in 20 years, you're going to have a hard time selling off the os stickers AND the binders, together or separate, because in 20 years (or hopefully 30 or more), we kids of the 70s are going to start dying off along with the memories & emotional attachments to these things. It's my opinon that in another 10 to 15 years or so, the value of wackys (original & ANS) will start to decline, never to go back up. I don't think people collecting the ANS will be nearly as emotional about them as we are about the ones from the 70s. There doesn't seem to be nearly an equivalent desire for the reissues, 80's album stickers, '85 set or the '91 set for the people who grew up collecting those. I think the ANS will be more nostalgic for us because of its link to the 70s rather than the kids of today.

Sadly you're right. Comics and BB cards from earlier generations have found a younger audience, but it won't likely happen with wackys which are much more of a generational fad. All I know is collecting them makes me happy, if they ultimately lose value I'll just see it as a buying opportunity until I finally die or go broke.

[Dr Popper]

I also think that in 20 years, you're going to have a hard time selling off the os stickers AND the binders, together or separate, because in 20 years (or hopefully 30 or more), we kids of the 70s are going to start dying off along with the memories & emotional attachments to these things. It's my opinon that in another 10 to 15 years or so, the value of wackys (original & ANS) will start to decline, never to go back up.

Now you tell me?  haha  Seriously though buying Wackys for an investment was never my intention, but it does sting a little seeing something decline in value that you spent a lot of money on. 

[OrangeCrush]

Out of curiousity, does having an archival binder make any difference with Wackys? Isn't it the archival page that is the most important? You could still have archival pages in the Wacky binders. I think most collectors now use archival quality baseball card pages.
I have used hingeless stamp albums with archival acid free pages and preset mounts for years, but don't recall the binders and slipcases being archival.
A

Absolutely it makes a difference. Chemicals can easily bleed and even fumes, over years of storage, can cause damage (yellowing and hardening is the most common damage from using non archival storage). Of course, it would depend on a lot of things, like what glues and chemicals were used, where you stored them (in a box with no ventilation or in a large room with significant ventilation) etc.. IMO, if your going to go archival then go archival. Why spend good money on archival pages only to store them in a non archival binder? Why even take the chance with your valuable collectibles? That being said, to each their own. Some people just aren't as concerned with things like using archival storage solutions. Whatever you feel comfortable using after all, its your collection.

[OrangeCrush]

I'm not quite getting the whole "archival" aspect of the binders.  The stickers themselves were not printed on archival quality stock, so it seems likely that they will break down over time (even if they are stored in archival quality sleeves).  And any binder made now is likely to outlast any of us, unless they're made of inferior plastics, which I assume is not the case with the new Topps binders.

Your correct, Wacky's themselves are not archival. Either are Baseball cards or Hockey cards or movie cards or any of the cards that have been produced the last 75 years. I certainly don't know of any cards that have been produced using archival card stock and archival inks. That being said, sticking them in non archival pages or in a non archival binder is only going to increase the likelihood that you will see negative effects from those non archival materials. Going off of this mentality, why would you even use archival pages at all? In fact, why are companies even producing archival pages for card collectors? Again, I don't know of a single card produced thus far that used archival card stock or archival inks. Trust me, it may seem counter intuitive but it absolutely makes a difference. Besides, your talking about 2 completely different types of non archival materials, those that are used to produce cards and those that are used to create modern day plastics, glues, etc.. In particular, the chemicals in modern day plastics are far more damaging than the non archival materials used to create the cards themselves. You may not see the difference over short periods of time (1-5 years) but you will definitely see the effects over longer periods of time (10+ years).

Back when I first started art school (went for photography) I stored some of the first pictures I printed in regular non archival plastic sheets. They wound up getting buried in the massive amount of work I did while I was at the school. A few years after I graduated, I went back and organized all of the work I did while at school. I was blown away when I dug up those pictures I stored in regular plastic sheets. They were so yellow that you would swear I purposely toned them that way. It was a pretty shocking demonstration of the effect non archival plastics can have on paper and the time frame was only around 6 years.

[BumChex]

I'm going to archive my binders! 

[OrangeCrush]

I'm going to archive my binders! 

Congratulations !

[Alexeirex]

Absolutely it makes a difference. Chemicals can easily bleed and even fumes, over years of storage, can cause damage (yellowing is the most common damage from using non archival storage). Of course, it would depend on a lot of things, like what glues and chemicals were used, where you stored them (in a box with no ventilation or in a large room with significant ventilation) etc.. IMO, if your going to go archival then go archival. Why spend good money on archival pages only to store them in a non archival binder? Why even take the chance with your valuable collectibles? That being said, to each their own. Some people just aren't as concerned with things like using archival storage solutions. Whatever you feel comfortable using after all, its your collection.

No argument there about ventilation and even temperature, humidity and sunlight. OT, I keep some of my collection behind tinted glass doors but some of my oldest cards used to be in card pages that were stiffer and obviously not archival quality - the newest quality pages are limp (think that subject was covered here) and some of my old tan backs are now 'wavey'  - how does one safely store these?
With acid-free archival stiffeners behind the cards in each pocket? I know that the comic book graders put a special stiffener/page inside the comic before they are sealed to help the comic degrade at a slower rate and that these can be replaced by the grading companies every 5 years. Does one use these?
BTW, I have seen 100 plus year old stamp albums that have kept their shape and mostly white page colors because there were no plastics used in those days - high rag content 'paper' pages with linen interleaving and bindings with leather covers and hand made paper covers....A

[OrangeCrush]

Absolutely! Sunlight and humidity can cause significant damage to collectibles. I keep most of my valuable collectibles away from sunlight all together. As for humidity, I literally have hundreds of Pelican 1500D desiccant containers all over my house. I use them in my collectible boxes, in my photography equipment cases, in my lighting cases, in my astronomy equipment cases, in with my photo prints and negatives, in my safe, etc... The great thing about them is you can reuse them an unlimited number of times. You just have to check them like once a month and when they finally get saturated with moisture, you just throw them in the oven for 15 minutes and abracadabra, they are ready to be used again. I swear by the little suckers and I also use some of the larger desiccant containers in the rooms that I store my collectibles in. So basically I put smaller ones in the boxes with the collectibles and them larger ones in the rooms that I store them in. Thankfully, we don't deal with high humidity on a regular basis where I live. I feel sorry for people that live in places like Florida. I am betting there have been many collections down there that have succumb to humidity damage.

In regards to using something as a stiffener, I would buy sheets of archival backing board used for matting pictures. Backing board is basically 1 or 2 ply matt board. You can then cut the sheets down to whatever size needed. 1 ply should be enough to do the trick.

As for the 100+ year old stamp albums, makes perfect sense. Basically the high rag content paper and linen that they used back in the day was very close to being archival itself. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if some of those papers met archival standards. Its the plastics and glues that you really have to watch out for.

[Tic_Toc]

Your correct, Wacky's themselves are not archival. Either are Baseball cards or Hockey cards or movie cards or any of the cards that have been produced the last 75 years. I certainly don't know of any cards that have been produced using archival card stock and archival inks. That being said, sticking them in non archival pages or in a non archival binder is only going to increase the likelihood that you will see negative effects from those non archival materials. Going off of this mentality, why would you even use archival pages at all? In fact, why are companies even producing archival pages for card collectors? Again, I don't know of a single card produced thus far that used archival card stock or archival inks. Trust me, it may seem counter intuitive but it absolutely makes a difference. Besides, your talking about 2 completely different types of non archival materials, those that are used to produce cards and those that are used to create modern day plastics, glues, etc.. In particular, the chemicals in modern day plastics are far more damaging than the non archival materials used to create the cards themselves. You may not see the difference over short periods of time (1-5 years) but you will definitely see the effects over longer periods of time (10+ years).

Back when I first started art school (went for photography) I stored some of the first pictures I printed in regular non archival plastic sheets. They wound up getting buried in the massive amount of work I did while I was at the school. A few years after I graduated, I went back and organized all of the work I did while at school. I was blown away when I dug up those pictures I stored in regular plastic sheets. They were so yellow that you would swear I purposely toned them that way. It was a pretty shocking demonstration of the effect non archival plastics can have on paper and the time frame was only around 6 years.

I see your point about the fumes gassing off of the binders being potentially damaging to the stickers, particularly if the binders are not kept in a well ventihlated area.  I was thinking that since they would not be in direct contact with the cards, they shouldn't affect them.  But you're right that some plastics can "gas off" for a long long time.

As far as the comparison between Wackys and other trading cards, I would still maintain that Wackys would seem to me to be more fragile and likely the decompose than baseball cards, largely because they are not a simple ink-on-cardstock process.  The adhesives Topps used have already bled through a lot of the 5th and 6th series cards, I'm assumiung because they used either inferior paper or more aggressive adhesive on those sets than the others.  And maybe by now the sticker paper and adhesive have stabilized, but it just seems like that thin layer of paper over a coating of adhesive is more likely to decompose than a baseball card.

Anyway, I just don't see Wackys as being very stable over the long term, no matter how you store them.  It makes sense to be careful to a degree though (I'd say putting them in a nitrogen-filled case would be going over the top).

[Tic_Toc]

No argument there about ventilation and even temperature, humidity and sunlight. OT, I keep some of my collection behind tinted glass doors but some of my oldest cards used to be in card pages that were stiffer and obviously not archival quality - the newest quality pages are limp (think that subject was covered here) and some of my old tan backs are now 'wavey'  - how does one safely store these?
With acid-free archival stiffeners behind the cards in each pocket? I know that the comic book graders put a special stiffener/page inside the comic before they are sealed to help the comic degrade at a slower rate and that these can be replaced by the grading companies every 5 years. Does one use these?
BTW, I have seen 100 plus year old stamp albums that have kept their shape and mostly white page colors because there were no plastics used in those days - high rag content 'paper' pages with linen interleaving and bindings with leather covers and hand made paper covers....A

I had that problem with the Ultra-Pro pages warping my tan backs too.  I ended up cutting card-sized pieces of thin, frosted vinyl sheet stock and placing them in the pages behind each card.  To the earlier discussion, I'm not sure if the vinyl itself would potentially affect the backer color over a period of years, but so far I haven't seen any issues.  But you could also cut the backers out of some kind of archival quality paper stock that used to commonly used with photo album pages. You won't be able to see the color of the backer that way, but it will keep the cards from warping and be totally safe with the sticker paper.

[Alexeirex]

Good advice all-around. Warping is a better description than 'wavey' lol.
I've used both kinds of dessicants but never around paper collectibles as they're stored in a low humidity area.
Any chance that these may cause the areas to be too dry for paper in the long term?
A

[Ruffs]

Duece

2 : 15

I am thinking about getting 1 set of the binders on the next round, I like the looks of the binders but the $$$ figure is high. I am still on the fence because I will sell 1 set eventually but I'm thinking about a full set of the binders to sell, 1-16.

[bigtomi]

In 20 years these binders will be a big part of a OS collection. When someone goes to sell their OS cards one of the first questions will be "are they in the binders"?

God, I hope not. I'd like to think that the actual stickers will always be WAY more important than what they're frickin' stored in.

[DrDeal]

God, I hope not. I'd like to think that the actual stickers will always be WAY more important than what they're frickin' stored in.

I would think it would be safe to say you are in the majority in terms of your opinion on this matter.

[JasonLiebig]

Sadly you're right. Comics and BB cards from earlier generations have found a younger audience, but it won't likely happen with wackys which are much more of a generational fad. All I know is collecting them makes me happy, if they ultimately lose value I'll just see it as a buying opportunity until I finally die or go broke.

Dave,

Love your point-of-view, and I think I share much of it.  The act of collecting is the primary motivation - the other stuff is secondary (not entirely unimportant, but not the primary). 

Having been a comic collector since childhood, and been a professional in the comic book publishing business for most of the 1990's, I'd built up quite a comic book collection.  While I don't follow the collector market in that category too closely, I think there are fewer and fewer comic book collectors to absorb most of what was saved - and that number is not growing.  I've got a giant collection, but most of it I'll be lucky to get pennies on the dollar for. 

Later this year, my older brother and I will be liquidating 90% of the comics we saved as well as the thousands I received for free during my editorial years.  Holding onto 10% seems like a good ratio and one which allows us to prune to the pieces that mean the very most to us. 

We're doing it mainly to make space, and with the realization that we're not doing much with so many of them (meaning, nothing).  As we've started the process to get them into a sell-able organization, it has been exciting and fun to look at them all again.  And I'll admit that that process and that fun has given us both pause.  But I'd rather sell them now for a little, with the hope that they'll find some utility, than having to dump them when no one will be interested in buying them 20 years from now. 

It just seems that the the best stuff holds and grows a bit, but that definition becomes ever-narrower as the market for them grows smaller. 

So, even in comics, I think we're going to see a sort of natural attrition, while at the same time seeing a kind of growth for the very best stuff.  I'm sure it'll be the same for Wackys... and maybe it's already the case. 

I'll have to report back later in the year and let you know how it goes, both in the selling and how it is emotionally for us to let go of so many things we saved for so long. 

[OrangeCrush]

I see your point about the fumes gassing off of the binders being potentially damaging to the stickers, particularly if the binders are not kept in a well ventihlated area.  I was thinking that since they would not be in direct contact with the cards, they shouldn't affect them.  But you're right that some plastics can "gas off" for a long long time.

As far as the comparison between Wackys and other trading cards, I would still maintain that Wackys would seem to me to be more fragile and likely the decompose than baseball cards, largely because they are not a simple ink-on-cardstock process.  The adhesives Topps used have already bled through a lot of the 5th and 6th series cards, I'm assumiung because they used either inferior paper or more aggressive adhesive on those sets than the others.  And maybe by now the sticker paper and adhesive have stabilized, but it just seems like that thin layer of paper over a coating of adhesive is more likely to decompose than a baseball card.

Anyway, I just don't see Wackys as being very stable over the long term, no matter how you store them.  It makes sense to be careful to a degree though (I'd say putting them in a nitrogen-filled case would be going over the top).

Oh, I agree completely. The glue used in Wacky's makes them far worse than your regular sports or movie cards but that is just all the more reason why you should be storing them in archival products as they are already destined to have problems all on their own. The last thing they need is chemicals from other products adding to the problem.

[OrangeCrush]

God, I hope not. I'd like to think that the actual stickers will always be WAY more important than what they're frickin' stored in.

Yeah, I am not buying that one either. There may be some collectors that have an interest in them but accessories like binders will always be secondary to the cards themselves. They didn't make enough of them for them to be a big part of anything.

[BustedFinger]

I will be selling some very nice original series sets in the next few weeks if anyone is looking to fill some pages in these new binders.

[OrangeCrush]

Dave,

Love your point-of-view, and I think I share much of it.  The act of collecting is the primary motivation - the other stuff is secondary (not entirely unimportant, but not the primary). 

Having been a comic collector since childhood, and been a professional in the comic book publishing business for most of the 1990's, I'd built up quite a comic book collection.  While I don't follow the collector market in that category too closely, I think there are fewer and fewer comic book collectors to absorb most of what was saved - and that number is not growing.  I've got a giant collection, but most of it I'll be lucky to get pennies on the dollar for. 

Later this year, my older brother and I will be liquidating 90% of the comics we saved as well as the thousands I received for free during my editorial years.  Holding onto 10% seems like a good ratio and one which allows us to prune to the pieces that mean the very most to us. 

We're doing it mainly to make space, and with the realization that we're not doing much with so many of them (meaning, nothing).  As we've started the process to get them into a sell-able organization, it has been exciting and fun to look at them all again.  And I'll admit that that process and that fun has given us both pause.  But I'd rather sell them now for a little, with the hope that they'll find some utility, than having to dump them when no one will be interested in buying them 20 years from now. 

It just seems that the the best stuff holds and grows a bit, but that definition becomes ever-narrower as the market for them grows smaller. 

So, even in comics, I think we're going to see a sort of natural attrition, while at the same time seeing a kind of growth for the very best stuff.  I'm sure it'll be the same for Wackys... and maybe it's already the case. 

I'll have to report back later in the year and let you know how it goes, both in the selling and how it is emotionally for us to let go of so many things we saved for so long. 

Couldn't agree more, especially in regards to comics. I have been collecting comics for over 20 years and I wound up dumping 95% of my collection like 10 years back, for the sole purpose of focusing just on key issues (first appearances, #1's, limited editions etc). That kind of collecting isn't for everyone tho as you wind up buying significantly less overall and still spend the same amount of money, if not more. I used to go to the comic store a couple times a week and come home with big bags of stuff. Now I only buy a couple issues every couple of weeks. That being said, the issues I have purchased have, for the most part, increased in value considerably and best of all, I know I can sell them very easily if I ever need to as there are always people looking for the key issues. That just isn't the case with the regular issues. I think that can be said for pretty much all collecting markets. For example, I dont think there will ever be a shortage of demand for high quality original series wacky's.

[OrangeCrush]

I will be selling some very nice original series sets in the next few weeks if anyone is looking to fill some pages in these new binders.

Let me know when you list them! I am always interested in adding high quality original series to my collection.

[Porkie]

Let me know when you list them! I am always interested in adding high quality original series to my collection.

Me too!

[ratchet007]

I will be selling some very nice original series sets in the next few weeks if anyone is looking to fill some pages in these new binders.

Lauren, I would be interested in these as well. Can't wait to see what you've got!   

[DrDeal]

Saw a Binder 1 - 4 set sold on the bay for about $130. That's what I sold my set for two weeks ago.  It will be interesting to see if they keep selling for about $130. Not much being resold at present. It seems potential resellers resellers are holding for future appreciation.  I only purchased two sets so I could pick my sketches and was very glad I did as I really like the sketches I kept. My Band-Ache is sweet. My Simko is a combo. My Kirscht is a great looking character that is rarely done (Snatch a Pack) and my Engstrom is really cool (Hyde Rox).

Andrew

[DrDeal]

Anyone have an update as to when the binder 5 - 8 go up for sale?

Andrew

[koduck]

Anyone have an update as to when the binder 5 - 8 go up for sale?

Andrew

very soon...

[DrDeal]

very soon...

Neil,

   Might you enlighten us as to which artists did binders 5 - 8?

Thanks,  Andrew

[koduck]

Neil,

   Might you enlighten us as to which artists did binders 5 - 8?

Thanks,  Andrew

Matthew Kirscht, Smokin' Joe, Neil Camera and David Gross (in that order). I'll post some images as soon as I get the ok.

[DrDeal]

Based on Neil's comments I think Mon or Tues for the binders to go up for sale.

Andrew

[DrDeal]

very soon...

So its 9 days after "very soon" was mentioned. How long now?

Andrew

[BumChex]

So its 9 days after "very soon" was mentioned. How long now?

Andrew

You haven't been reading the Topps thread have you? LOL

[DrDeal]

You haven't been reading the Topps thread have you? LOL

I have more faith in Neil's predictions than in anything I hear from Topps.   Just checking.

I can't wait to drop $520 on some more binders.

Andrew