Author Topic: OS4 LUDLOW BACK VARIATIONS (Read 11716 times)

sco(o)t · « **on:** January 07, 2013, 08:24:52 PM »

Like in OS3, the OS4 series was designed to intentionally have 2 different ludlow back variations for each title/wrapper sticker/and the promo and logo stickers. We have also learned that there should be an equal number of each variation. Two back plates were used and 1/2 of the run was created using each plate so no one variation should be more scarce than another. I opted to create a new topic to help document the variations, since the ludlow backs seemed to illicit either a love or hate relationship with collectors during the OS3 collecting frenzy period. This way people can avoid the topic altogether if desired.

During OS3 postings, we looked at many factors about the sticker backs to try to find the simplest way to designate the variations from one another for the same title. This was done simply as an effort to provide a language people could use in trading so that people did not have to resort to scanning their card backs, post them and then say, "I have this one... I need the other one". Our final convention recommendation was to simply add the number of camels (either entirely or patially shown) on the back side of the card. But there are instances where both back variations of a given title have the same number of camels shown, so an additional designation needed to be added to make each unique, We decided the additional qualifier of the number of camel feet, either entirely or partially, shown, would provide the unique identifier. Shame on those of you reading this who are thinking to yourself we could have counted camel toes instead. So, for example, the two variations of the "BARK-Os" title are shown below. You may need to click on the image to see the entire picture.

The variation on the left can be designated 1c4f (for 1 camel, 4 feet)
The variation on the right, 2c4f (for 2 camels, 4 feet).

One last word of note. Some backs may show just a sliver of a foot on one side or the other. If the card is cut just slightly differently, the part of the foot may be lost on one card. In the case where we saw a difference, we list the highest number seen across the examples we were looking at. So if the chart shows 3c9f for a particular title back variation, and yours has 3c8f, we chalk this up to small differences in the cutting.

A special thanks to Bumchex who provided the "alternate" variation backs on these.

So, without further ado, here is the list, by sticker title, for the two variations for each sticker: Sorry for the alignment of the columns below... I can get it to look good when editing it, then it looks differently when posted. Also please note, I do not currently know of a variation for the SWEETAR title. If you do, please let me know so I can modify/update the list. Also, if anyone finds additional alternatives or finds an error in the chart below, please notify me.

VAR 1   VAR 2   STICKERS TITLES:
------- ------ -------------------------------------------------------------
2c5f   2c8f   Atomic Fur Ball
1c4f   2c4f   Bark-O's
3c4f   3c8f   Barrel of Flunkies
2c4f   4c9f   Battleaxe
3c0f   3c4f   Beetmans Gum
2c5f   4c9f   Bitter Gnomes in Garden
3c4f   3c8f   Cap'n Clobber's Punched Crunch
1c4f   3c0f   Count Chalkula
2c5f   3c8f   English Weather
1c4f   2c4f   Feebles
3c4f   3c8f   Hicks Farmula 4H
3c0f   3c4f   Hips Ahoy!
2c5f   4c9f   Kong Vitaman
1c4f   3c2f   Lame Creme Rinse
3c4f   3c8f   Larva Lite
2c5f   3c8f   Leaden Bagels
1c4f   2c4f   Lifer
3c0f   3c4f   Mellow Ghost
2c4f   4c9f   Moody Ring
2c5f   4c9f   Norsemen
1c4f   3c2f   Not Goodie
2c4f   3c7f   Now & Never
3c0f   3c4f   Pet Schlock
1c4f   2c4f   Pig John's
2c4f   4c9f   Pssssssd
1c4f   3c0f   Sloshed Puppie
2c4f   3c8f   Sneezing Yellow Honkers
2c4f   4c9f   Sufferin'
1c4f   2c?f    Sweetar
3c4f   3c8f   Tinder Vittles
2c4f   4c9f   Transylvania Frightbulbs
3c0f   3c4f   XRay-O-Vac
2c4f   4c9f   Yackety Package Poems
1c4f   3c2f   Wacky Wrapper Sticker: Wacky Ads
3c4f   3c8f   Wacky Wrapper Sticker: Die Cuts
2c5f   4c8f   Wacky Wrapper Sticker: Yellow text on Red
3c4f   3c8f   Wacky Wrapper Sticker: Red text on Yellow
2c4f   3c8f   Wacky Wrapper Sticker: Yellow text on Light Blue (puzzle)
3c0f   3c4f   Wacky Wrapper Sticker: Yellow text on Light Blue (gum)
2c5f   4c8f   Wacky Wrapper Sticker: Orange Text on Orange
1c4f   3c0f   Wacky Wrapper Sticker: Yellow text on Green
1c4f   2c4f   Wacky Wrapper Sticker: Yellow text on Dark Blue
3c0f   3c4f   Wacky Wrapper Sticker: 16th White text on Red
1c4f   2c5f   Wacky Wrapper Sticker: Posters Blue text on Yellow
2c4f   3c8f   Wacky Wrapper Sticker: Posters Yellow text on Blue
2c4f   4c8f   Wacky Wrapper Sticker: Tattoos
2c4f   4c8f   Wacky Wrapper Sticker: Patches
2c4f   4c9f   Old School Logo
1c4f   3c2f   Old School 5 Promo

BumChex · « **Reply #1 on:** January 07, 2013, 08:47:57 PM »

Didn't I send you the atomic fur ball variation? Sweetar is the only one I know of being the same. I do have 30 boxes coimg in tomorrow and will crack packs looking for a sweetar variation, that and the weakies variations.

sco(o)t · « **Reply #2 on:** January 07, 2013, 09:05:33 PM »

Quote from: BumChex on January 07, 2013, 08:47:57 PM

Didn't I send you the atomic fur ball variation? Sweetar is the only one I know of being the same. I do have 30 boxes coimg in tomorrow and will crack packs looking for a sweetar variation, that and the weakies variations.

The FURBALL matched the one I had. If you see another FURBALL back, let me know the camels.feet.

Alexeirex · « **Reply #3 on:** January 07, 2013, 11:29:55 PM »

I have not seen any variations yet on OS4 ludlow backs, and my 7 boxes so far came in different orders.
Are you sure the variations were distributed evenly? And one set of Ludlows are not rarer than the other?
A

RawGoo · « **Reply #4 on:** January 08, 2013, 03:25:13 AM »

Quote from: sco(o)t on January 07, 2013, 09:05:33 PM

The FURBALL matched the one I had. If you see another FURBALL back, let me know the camels.feet.

I have 11 of the variety you have. Nothing else. This is disappointing, since I bought extra boxes specifically to collect the different luds. But, maybe this time we'll be able to label them as "A" and "B" sets, and just trade extra completed sets.

sco(o)t · « **Reply #5 on:** January 08, 2013, 03:27:44 AM »

Quote from: Alexeirex on January 07, 2013, 11:29:55 PM

I have not seen any variations yet on OS4 ludlow backs, and my 7 boxes so far came in different orders.
Are you sure the variations were distributed evenly? And one set of Ludlows are not rarer than the other?
A

The following is from a post from a Topps employed forum member - chipereno in the "Re: WP Old School 4 - SPOILERS" topic on January 7th at 9:45pm. He was responding to some posts having to do with people receiving cut-out stickers with ludlow backs in one pack and then finding the back, minus sticker, in another pack.

"Yikes...a make ready sheet must have crept into the load. What can you do?
As far as the Luds exactly 1/2 of the run was with one pattern and the other 1/2
with the 2nd pattern. Same plate file as OLDS3 just RED."

RawGoo · « **Reply #6 on:** January 08, 2013, 03:50:35 AM »

Quote from: sco(o)t on January 08, 2013, 03:27:44 AM

The following is from a post from a Topps employed forum member - chipereno in the "Re: WP Old School 4 - SPOILERS" topic on January 7th at 9:45pm. He was responding to some posts having to do with people receiving cut-out stickers with ludlow backs in one pack and then finding the back, minus sticker, in another pack.

"Yikes...a make ready sheet must have crept into the load. What can you do?
As far as the Luds exactly 1/2 of the run was with one pattern and the other 1/2
with the 2nd pattern. Same plate file as OLDS3 just RED."

I saw that. I'm hoping that since we know this and so many of us have just one variety after killing many, many boxes, we'll be able to build sets along one of two sheet backs, and ID the sets by the back version of the first sticker, Bark-Os. My sets all have a 1 camel Bark-Os. Last time, I had all my luds mixed together before I knew about the variations. This is kind of a "lemonade out of lemons" thought...........

BumChex · « **Reply #7 on:** January 08, 2013, 07:01:31 AM »

Quote from: sco(o)t on January 07, 2013, 09:05:33 PM

The FURBALL matched the one I had. If you see another FURBALL back, let me know the camels.feet.

I owe you this one. I found I must have sent you the wrong one. The other one is 2c8f.

Alexeirex · « **Reply #8 on:** January 08, 2013, 09:27:12 AM »

Quote from: sco(o)t on January 08, 2013, 03:27:44 AM

The following is from a post from a Topps employed forum member - chipereno in the "Re: WP Old School 4 - SPOILERS" topic on January 7th at 9:45pm. He was responding to some posts having to do with people receiving cut-out stickers with ludlow backs in one pack and then finding the back, minus sticker, in another pack.

"Yikes...a make ready sheet must have crept into the load. What can you do?
As far as the Luds exactly 1/2 of the run was with one pattern and the other 1/2
with the 2nd pattern. Same plate file as OLDS3 just RED."

OK, thanks, thats interesting to know. I have a few more boxes - will be looking - seems to be much harder to find the back variations than last time....

BumChex · « **Reply #9 on:** January 08, 2013, 11:34:21 AM »

I've opened 6 more boxes and all the Sweetar's only have the one camel. I've never opened so many packs in my life. I have more boxes to open though.

Jean Nutty · « **Reply #10 on:** January 08, 2013, 11:58:31 AM »

Quote from: BumChex on January 08, 2013, 11:34:21 AM

I've opened 6 more boxes and all the Sweetar's only have the one camel.

Maybe boxes shipped to Hawaii, Alaska, and Puerto Rico contain the elusive Sweetar variation?

I think the crew running the presses were hung-over that day (following a company Christmas party) and they forgot to switch over, half way through the Sweetar Ludlow run.

Dr Popper · « **Reply #11 on:** January 08, 2013, 12:55:00 PM »

Quote from: Alexeirex on January 08, 2013, 09:27:12 AM

OK, thanks, thats interesting to know. I have a few more boxes - will be looking - seems to be much harder to find the back variations than last time....

It sounds like it's harder based on there not being an even collation in the packs, but based on the variations being 50/50 it shouldn't be too tough to get a set of each, but it sounds like it will require some trading. I imagine the challenge in trading is the lingo assigned to both variations, but it sounds like Scot is taking care of that.

It would have been better though if they were evenly mixed in the packs, so if you bought several boxes you would get a bunch of titles with both backs in there. It seems to be more hit or miss.

Duznt · « **Reply #12 on:** January 08, 2013, 01:38:46 PM »

Quote from: BumChex on January 08, 2013, 11:34:21 AM

I've opened 6 more boxes and all the Sweetar's only have the one camel. I've never opened so many packs in my life. I have more boxes to open though.

Dave and Chiperino are probably getting a kick out of this

BumChex · « **Reply #13 on:** January 08, 2013, 03:52:30 PM »

OK, I just opened 20 boxes and sorted my luds. Most cards has a variation except for Sweetar. Not all had variations. Some I only got 6-7 cards and those were all the same but all the cards I got 10-12 of had variations except for Sweetar. I got 11 Sweetar and all are the same backs. I still have 10 boxes I'm going to dive in tomorrow and will be blown away if I get a Sweetar variation.

Alexeirex · « **Reply #14 on:** January 09, 2013, 12:11:08 PM »

Even though I haven't found any ludlow variations after 8 boxes, the list is greatly appreciated!
Who here is going to attempt to complete their ludlow backs?
A

BumChex · « **Reply #15 on:** January 09, 2013, 01:39:35 PM »

Chip confirmed there should be a variation for Sweetar. I didn't get any in my 30 boxes. I sold some stuff so I ordered another 20 boxes for delivery tomorrow. I have enough base stuff for sure but I'm also a sketch collector so opening boxes is what it's all about. I've never opened this many packs before. I would generally open about 10 boxes and make some sets. I think I'm up to 70 boxes opened now. Yikes!
What's odd is I also didn't get any red Weakies variations in 30 boxes. That alone tells me the collation is really screwed up. If I don't get any reds or Sweetar variations in these next 20 boxes I'm moving on.

Alexeirex · « **Reply #16 on:** January 09, 2013, 02:15:14 PM »

We're all sure the red weakness exist, right? My orange ones can almost pass for red...
A

BumChex · « **Reply #17 on:** January 09, 2013, 03:26:35 PM »

Quote from: Alexeirex on January 09, 2013, 02:15:14 PM

We're all sure the red weakness exist, right? My orange ones can almost pass for red...
A

The red does exist. I've sold a few.

sco(o)t · « **Reply #18 on:** January 09, 2013, 04:27:34 PM »

Quote from: Alexeirex on January 09, 2013, 02:15:14 PM

We're all sure the red weakness exist, right? My orange ones can almost pass for red...
A

I agree the orange border WEAKIES looks like a light red but when held next to the red border, the difference is easily ascertained. The red border is a much darker, blood red color.

RawGoo · « **Reply #19 on:** January 09, 2013, 04:31:15 PM »

Quote from: sco(o)t on January 09, 2013, 04:27:34 PM

I agree the orange border WEAKIES looks like a light red but when held next to the red border, the difference is easily ascertained. The red border is a much darker, blood red color.

When in doubt as to whether a Weakies is orange or red, you can check it against a Beastball or Jail-O.

Hustler08 · « **Reply #20 on:** January 09, 2013, 05:34:48 PM »

Quote from: BumChex on January 09, 2013, 01:39:35 PM

Chip confirmed there should be a variation for Sweetar. I didn't get any in my 30 boxes. I sold some stuff so I ordered another 20 boxes for delivery tomorrow. I have enough base stuff for sure but I'm also a sketch collector so opening boxes is what it's all about. I've never opened this many packs before. I would generally open about 10 boxes and make some sets. I think I'm up to 70 boxes opened now. Yikes!
What's odd is I also didn't get any red Weakies variations in 30 boxes. That alone tells me the collation is really screwed up. If I don't get any reds or Sweetar variations in these next 20 boxes I'm moving on.

I have a lot of red weakies more that orange...which is more rare RED or Orange?? how much are the red weakies going for?? thx

BumChex · « **Reply #21 on:** January 09, 2013, 06:10:06 PM »

Quote from: Hustler08 on January 09, 2013, 05:34:48 PM

I have a lot of red weakies more that orange...which is more rare RED or Orange?? how much are the red weakies going for?? thx

I will trade green and orange for your reds. I think they were all produced the same but not everyone is pulling reds. I didn't get any reds in my first 15 boxes and then in my next 18 boxes I got 12. Now in the last 30 boxes I didn't get any red. It's very strange how Topps stores these because you would thing it would be all mixed together but it must be a pallet of each on their floor.

BumChex · « **Reply #22 on:** January 18, 2013, 03:06:52 PM »

I just got an email from Leslie and she has pulled one Sweetar with 2 camels. She is going to see if she can pull any more. I think she bought a bunch of no sketch boxes from collectors. She told me she had like 100 boxes coming in.

Porkie · « **Reply #23 on:** January 22, 2013, 09:47:40 AM »

Bizarre (and annoying) that the collation would be so... Wacky!

Suggestion: With OLDS3 we did the variations as 3c0f/3c4f only when there were the same number of camels, otherwise we'd do 2c/4c or 1c/3c. That's easier to read imo.

sco(o)t · « **Reply #24 on:** January 22, 2013, 10:27:44 AM »

Quote from: Porkie on January 22, 2013, 09:47:40 AM

Bizarre (and annoying) that the collation would be so... Wacky!

Suggestion: With OLDS3 we did the variations as 3c0f/3c4f only when there were the same number of camels, otherwise we'd do 2c/4c or 1c/3c. That's easier to read imo.

I agree... I just listed the detail because there are 12 or 13 titles that have the same number of camals for both variations.

Porkie · « **Reply #25 on:** January 22, 2013, 10:42:26 AM »

Quote from: sco(o)t on January 22, 2013, 10:27:44 AM

I agree... I just listed the detail because there are 12 or 13 titles that have the same number of camals for both variations.

I like having the details too. I was actually wondering why the variations aren't the same as OLDS3 - seems like they would have been (i.e. first sticker in the sheet would have the same variations, etc.).

"camals" shows you are a true Wacky fanatic!

bigtomi · « **Reply #26 on:** January 22, 2013, 02:06:03 PM »

Quote from: Porkie on January 22, 2013, 10:42:26 AM

"camals" shows you are a true Wacky fanatic!

or you're a poar spellar.

BumChex · « **Reply #27 on:** January 22, 2013, 07:47:50 PM »

Quote from: bigtomi on January 22, 2013, 02:06:03 PM

or you're a poar spellar.

Hey, quit nitpicking

Dr Popper · « **Reply #28 on:** January 23, 2013, 06:26:18 AM »

Quote from: BumChex on January 09, 2013, 06:10:06 PM

I will trade green and orange for your reds. I think they were all produced the same but not everyone is pulling reds. I didn't get any reds in my first 15 boxes and then in my next 18 boxes I got 12. Now in the last 30 boxes I didn't get any red. It's very strange how Topps stores these because you would thing it would be all mixed together but it must be a pallet of each on their floor.

I think we pretty much know by now that the red border is the rarest, but was it ever confirmed what the order is from least to most? I would guess that it's........blue, green, orange, and red (least to rarest), but I am not sure about the green vs. orange because they seem to be close in quantity.

Hustler08 · « **Reply #29 on:** January 23, 2013, 06:41:57 AM »

Quote from: Dr Popper on January 23, 2013, 06:26:18 AM

I think we pretty much know by now that the red border is the rarest, but was it ever confirmed what the order is from least to most? I would guess that it's........blue, green, orange, and red (least to rarest), but I am not sure about the green vs. orange because they seem to be close in quantity.

i would say orange is a little bit rarer than green...

sco(o)t · « **Reply #30 on:** January 23, 2013, 07:03:41 AM »

Quote from: Dr Popper on January 23, 2013, 06:26:18 AM

I think we pretty much know by now that the red border is the rarest, but was it ever confirmed what the order is from least to most? I would guess that it's........blue, green, orange, and red (least to rarest), but I am not sure about the green vs. orange because they seem to be close in quantity.

I though slimjim indicated that they were produced in equal quantity... I will have to check back through the posts. I know that want lists and ebay auctions do not appear to support that however.