Real or fake??

[Playbug]

http://www.ebay.com/csc/ptek3641mzr/m.html?_ipg=&_from=&_nkw=&_armrs=1&LH_Complete=1&rt=nc

Hey Brent good to see you on the forum again. 

[Liptorn]

Going back to the guy with the fake G&E and Bandache red ludlows, I looked at his feedback and noticed
that 2 veteran collectors left him positive feedback on those items, which means that got fooled on those items. This is not good, he has gotten away with cheating people out of hundreds of dollars.

[blunderbrent]

Hey Brent good to see you on the forum again. 

Thanks, man.

[BumChex]

Going back to the guy with the fake G&E and Bandache red ludlows, I looked at his feedback and noticed
that 2 veteran collectors left him positive feedback on those items, which means that got fooled on those items. This is not good, he has gotten away with cheating people out of hundreds of dollars.

I spoke to one of those veteran collectors and he got duped. He said they are garbage and just asked for a refund.

[Playbug]

I spoke to one of those veteran collectors and he got duped. He said they are garbage and just asked for a refund.

Did he get the refund? And/or report the seller? I hope both.

[BumChex]

Did he get the refund? And/or report the seller? I hope both.

Still in progress.

[MadMike]

I am just catching up with this thread.  I usually just think "What an idiot!" and move on past these characters that are selling these types of fake items.  However, with no information on the card that it is a reproduction, many unsuspecting buyers will be purchasing this crap.  If they discover later that they were sold a reproduction which they paid top dollar for, it will put a black mark on the wacky package market on ebay and people will choose not to buy wackys.

He must be stopped.  I reported him also.  Everyone should do the same.  Thanks for bringing this to our attention. 

[bandaches]

Still in progress.

Johnsdunworken
JEffcaff
DetectiveSmuff

All got taken to the cleaners by this clown...and that is only from the feedback list, how many others who didn't leave feedback were scammed?

[BumChex]

Johnsdunworken
JEffcaff
DetectiveSmuff

All got taken to the cleaners by this clown...and that is only from the feedback list, how many others who didn't leave feedback were scammed?

Sadie

[jeffcaff]

I left him positive feedback because he took back the sticker and refunded me in full.

[bandaches]

I left him positive feedback because he took back the sticker and refunded me in full.

A positive transaction is a seller is purposely deceiving in his auctions, tries to see how many people will buy who won't ask for refunds and if you are duped into buying one and go through the trouble of paying for it, then realizing it is fake, sending it back and getting a refund?

That kind of positive feedback will only increase the liklihood that more people will be duped and have to go through the troubles you went through all to merely break even and that many more won't even know they bought valueless garbage.

[Forgers Coffee]

After seeing all the effort focused on one guy and his auctions I went and took a look at all his old listings. Each one is clearly marked as a reproduction with the exception of maybe two auction. And since I don't have 500.00 to spend on a real G&E at this time I bought one of the repos (along with a ludlow Olds 3). They're really good for the price and now I don't have a hole in my collection. I don't see why you guys have been making such a fuss over this? If you don't want a repo then don't buy one,but to think everyone who bought off of him is completely clueless to them being repos is a bit naive. I think the biggest problem with most people is they just look at pictures without reading the listing,just take the minute to read and then you would be completely informed on what your purchasing. I will be leaving positive feedback too since the transaction went smooth and I got what I wanted.

[bandaches]

After seeing all the effort focused on one guy and his auctions I went and took a look at all his old listings. Each one is clearly marked as a reproduction with the exception of maybe two auction. And since I don't have 500.00 to spend on a real G&E at this time I bought one of the repos (along with a ludlow Olds 3). They're really good for the price and now I don't have a hole in my collection. I don't see why you guys have been making such a fuss over this? If you don't want a repo then don't buy one,but to think everyone who bought off of him is completely clueless to them being repos is a bit naive. I think the biggest problem with most people is they just look at pictures without reading the listing,just take the minute to read and then you would be completely informed on what your purchasing. I will be leaving positive feedback too since the transaction went smooth and I got what I wanted.

They are NOT clearly marked.  He makes ZERO mention of these being fake in his title line and unless you read his overly verbose description, you won't see his use of the word "rendered" or "copy".  If it WAS so clear, there wouldn't be some many long time collectors being duped.

If his intent wasn't to deceive, why not mention "repro" in his title?

[MadMike]

After seeing all the effort focused on one guy and his auctions I went and took a look at all his old listings. Each one is clearly marked as a reproduction with the exception of maybe two auction. And since I don't have 500.00 to spend on a real G&E at this time I bought one of the repos (along with a ludlow Olds 3). They're really good for the price and now I don't have a hole in my collection. I don't see why you guys have been making such a fuss over this? If you don't want a repo then don't buy one,but to think everyone who bought off of him is completely clueless to them being repos is a bit naive. I think the biggest problem with most people is they just look at pictures without reading the listing,just take the minute to read and then you would be completely informed on what your purchasing. I will be leaving positive feedback too since the transaction went smooth and I got what I wanted.

I don't think EVERYONE is clueless to the fact that they are repros.  I think that there are many people that collected Wacky Packages as kids that don't have the time to research and learn about all the information that most people on this forum acquire by reading numerous stories about Wackys.  If these people were to go out collecting on EBAY, they would not have any idea that this is not an original sticker based on the description.  It is purposefully deceiving to invite naive bidders.

The seller did clean up his descriptions a bit, but does not include REPRO in the title of the auction for a good reason.  He could also put FAKE instead of REPRO and I would be happy.  He can also clearly state on the first line of his description "This is not the genuine item, it is a REPRODUCTION."  He lets you get far into the novel he wrote before any mention of REPRO occurs.  Maybe he has changed it since I last saw his description, but it certainly started out being deceiving. 

I am glad that you have the knowledge to understand what you are buying.  I am glad that you got what you wanted and that you are happy.  It is all good.  The bottom line is that the guy is producing copies of an item he does not have permission to produce.  Once people buy them, do you think they might turn around and sell them as originals?  Maybe even that someone finds them at a garage sale and sells them as originals since they do not indicate that they are REPROS?

I am not arguing with you or trying to prove you wrong.  Just stating a case for a likely scenario that would harm the market for Wackys.

Peace Out!

[bandaches]

I don't think EVERYONE is clueless to the fact that they are repros.  I think that there are many people that collected Wacky Packages as kids that don't have the time to research and learn about all the information that most people on this forum acquire by reading numerous stories about Wackys.  If these people were to go out collecting on EBAY, they would not have any idea that this is not an original sticker based on the description.  It is purposefully deceiving to invite naive bidders.

The seller did clean up his descriptions a bit, but does not include REPRO in the title of the auction for a good reason.  He could also put FAKE instead of REPRO and I would be happy.  He can also clearly state on the first line of his description "This is not the genuine item, it is a REPRODUCTION."  He lets you get far into the novel he wrote before any mention of REPRO occurs.  Maybe he has changed it since I last saw his description, but it certainly started out being deceiving. 

I am glad that you have the knowledge to understand what you are buying.  I am glad that you got what you wanted and that you are happy.  It is all good.  The bottom line is that the guy is producing copies of an item he does not have permission to produce.  Once people buy them, do you think they might turn around and sell them as originals?  Maybe even that someone finds them at a garage sale and sells them as originals since they do not indicate that they are REPROS?

I am not arguing with you or trying to prove you wrong.  Just stating a case for a likely scenario that would harm the market for Wackys.

Peace Out!

You nailed it in every way possible!  The seller clearly knows by now his auctions have been a problem as he has dealt with several returns.  I am going to write him and suggest he mention repro in the title and that he stamp his wonderful reproductions as "repro".  I bet he declines to do both of these....

[lucidjc]

Lets remember what these words mean. REPRODUCTION= is a legitimate copy to be sold as a copy. FAKE= Is an attempt to decieve. Trying to pass off a copy as the real thing.

[bandaches]

Lets remember what these words mean. REPRODUCTION= is a legitimate copy to be sold as a copy. FAKE= Is an attempt to decieve. Trying to pass off a copy as the real thing.

Good point, he should mark them as "fake" or better yet, "counterfeit".

[Forgers Coffee]

How many times Bandache have you see a listing like this (BARBIE DOLL TOY FIGURE SNOW WHITE CINDERELLA SLEEPING BEAUTY VINTAGE) I see it all the time and the reasoning is to get the listing to show up in many types of possible searches. Am I supposed to feel tricked because it has all that,but in reality it's just a plain barbie? No because it's just a title. read the description. Also a lot of his listings were for cards that weren't even produced (Mixwell Hearse) so to put fake or repo in those auctions wouldn't even make sense.  Add to that at the very bottom in huge bright letters it says "if you don't understand the auction, ask before bidding and if you have any questions ask before bidding" so if you did have any doubt why wouldn't you ask?

 Were obviously all fans of wackys,this seller included,and I find it odd that rather then send a private message to the guy and giving him some pointers on his listing or just asking a question or two,you take to the forum and blast his listing and rally other members to report his listings. People need to learn to talk to each other once and awhile. That's what the world is missing today, communication. I only say this because it seems the seller isn't a member here and could use a voice speaking up in his "defense".

It might sound silly but were all wacky fans and can't we all just get along? Now I said my thoughts and I'm going to get cracking this ANS9 box that I picked up today.

Here's a screen cap of one of his descriptions just to give everyone idea about how he writes them,doesn't read like he's trying to con anyone to me:

[MadMike]

Not to argue, but you are not addressing the fact that he is reproducing materials that he has no authority to reproduce.  You conveniently made no attempt to address that issue which is the most important part of the whole situation.  Without the reproducing without permission, we would have no situation.

I know that what he is doing is not the right thing to do and nobody had to tell me.  If you are saying that someone should talk to him and let him know that what he is doing is illegal, then we are not giving this individual a lot of credit for common sense.  I am certain that he aware that he is taking a chance that Topps will not be bothered by a small fish and he will be allowed to continue his business of selling items he has no right to reproduce. 

I wonder what the artists on this site would think about a situation where someone was reproducing their materials without permission and making money selling them.  I would think that an original artist would be insulted by this act and want it to stop immediately.  If I am wrong then I would not mind any artist speaking up and telling me so.

I am a teacher and work with 11 to 14 year old kids everyday.  I am constantly telling them that they should strive hard to give their best effort, always make appropriate choices, and treat people with respect.  I would expect nothing less from an adult.  This individual is not making an appropriate choice and he is not respecting the owners of the materials that he is reproducing.  It seems so black and white to me.  It isn't life or death, but certainly the person just needs to stop what he is doing.

Someone should suggest that he create his own materials and sell them.  I would support that 100%.  Oh yeah, I forgot.  His materials would not sell.

Peace Out Again!

[Bigmuc13]

Sadie

Wow.  I know John, Jeff, and Craig.  All are veteran collectors.  Hard to believe that these guys all got taken. What a shame.  These fake items are a joke.

[Bigmuc13]

They are NOT clearly marked.  He makes ZERO mention of these being fake in his title line and unless you read his overly verbose description, you won't see his use of the word "rendered" or "copy".  If it WAS so clear, there wouldn't be some many long time collectors being duped.

If his intent wasn't to deceive, why not mention "repro" in his title?

Totally agree with you Ernie.  When selling a repro, an honest seller puts that in bold in the title as to make sure there is no confusion.  Burying it in the small print of a large text description is self explaining as to motive here.

[jleonard1967]

How many times Bandache have you see a listing like this (BARBIE DOLL TOY FIGURE SNOW WHITE CINDERELLA SLEEPING BEAUTY VINTAGE) I see it all the time and the reasoning is to get the listing to show up in many types of possible searches. Am I supposed to feel tricked because it has all that,but in reality it's just a plain barbie? No because it's just a title. read the description. Also a lot of his listings were for cards that weren't even produced (Mixwell Hearse) so to put fake or repo in those auctions wouldn't even make sense.  Add to that at the very bottom in huge bright letters it says "if you don't understand the auction, ask before bidding and if you have any questions ask before bidding" so if you did have any doubt why wouldn't you ask?

 Were obviously all fans of wackys,this seller included,and I find it odd that rather then send a private message to the guy and giving him some pointers on his listing or just asking a question or two,you take to the forum and blast his listing and rally other members to report his listings. People need to learn to talk to each other once and awhile. That's what the world is missing today, communication. I only say this because it seems the seller isn't a member here and could use a voice speaking up in his "defense".

It might sound silly but were all wacky fans and can't we all just get along? Now I said my thoughts and I'm going to get cracking this ANS9 box that I picked up today.

Here's a screen cap of one of his descriptions just to give everyone idea about how he writes them,doesn't read like he's trying to con anyone to me:

(Image removed from quote.)

This is one of his later auctions.  You should have seen his first auctions.  I would agree with you on all your points however it is PAINFULLY obvious that he wants to decieve.  So please don't defend him.  This seller will wreck havoc on the integrity of the hobby.  So I really take offence to his auctions. 

[Kook]

Totally agree with you Ernie.  When selling a repro, an honest seller puts that in bold in the title as to make sure there is no confusion.  Burying it in the small print of a large text description is self explaining as to motive here.

I definitely agree that the intent of these auctions is to deceive. I had to really "study" this sellers initial auctions to determine that they were repros/fakes. Guilding the lilly and caveat emptor come to mind. Any Brady Bunch fans out there??

[bandaches]

How many times Bandache have you see a listing like this (BARBIE DOLL TOY FIGURE SNOW WHITE CINDERELLA SLEEPING BEAUTY VINTAGE) I see it all the time and the reasoning is to get the listing to show up in many types of possible searches. Am I supposed to feel tricked because it has all that,but in reality it's just a plain barbie? No because it's just a title. read the description. Also a lot of his listings were for cards that weren't even produced (Mixwell Hearse) so to put fake or repo in those auctions wouldn't even make sense.  Add to that at the very bottom in huge bright letters it says "if you don't understand the auction, ask before bidding and if you have any questions ask before bidding" so if you did have any doubt why wouldn't you ask?

 Were obviously all fans of wackys,this seller included,and I find it odd that rather then send a private message to the guy and giving him some pointers on his listing or just asking a question or two,you take to the forum and blast his listing and rally other members to report his listings. People need to learn to talk to each other once and awhile. That's what the world is missing today, communication. I only say this because it seems the seller isn't a member here and could use a voice speaking up in his "defense".

It might sound silly but were all wacky fans and can't we all just get along? Now I said my thoughts and I'm going to get cracking this ANS9 box that I picked up today.

Here's a screen cap of one of his descriptions just to give everyone idea about how he writes them,doesn't read like he's trying to con anyone to me:

(Image removed from quote.)

So why is it ok that he gave people grief and had to be coaxed to give refunds when he at first planned to hold people to the ebay auction contract?  Doesn't sound like someone who is innocently listing fakes.  Your title example is horrible, looking to hit extra searches has nothing to do with being honest and putting 5 little letters "repro" in the title especially when it is clear the way he is running his auctions now is causing issues.

[bandaches]

Not to argue, but you are not addressing the fact that he is reproducing materials that he has no authority to reproduce.  You conveniently made no attempt to address that issue which is the most important part of the whole situation.  Without the reproducing without permission, we would have no situation.

I know that what he is doing is not the right thing to do and nobody had to tell me.  If you are saying that someone should talk to him and let him know that what he is doing is illegal, then we are not giving this individual a lot of credit for common sense.  I am certain that he aware that he is taking a chance that Topps will not be bothered by a small fish and he will be allowed to continue his business of selling items he has no right to reproduce. 

I wonder what the artists on this site would think about a situation where someone was reproducing their materials without permission and making money selling them.  I would think that an original artist would be insulted by this act and want it to stop immediately.  If I am wrong then I would not mind any artist speaking up and telling me so.

I am a teacher and work with 11 to 14 year old kids everyday.  I am constantly telling them that they should strive hard to give their best effort, always make appropriate choices, and treat people with respect.  I would expect nothing less from an adult.  This individual is not making an appropriate choice and he is not respecting the owners of the materials that he is reproducing.  It seems so black and white to me.  It isn't life or death, but certainly the person just needs to stop what he is doing.

Someone should suggest that he create his own materials and sell them.  I would support that 100%.  Oh yeah, I forgot.  His materials would not sell.

Peace Out Again!

The con artist is mainly running one day auctions for his counterfeit items knowing ebay can't react in time to shut the auctions down so he nails his fish.  Forgers isn't making a whole heck of a lot of sense.

[Forgers Coffee]

Okay I really didn't want to revisit this issue,but here I am again. I have only seen titles that have been pulled by topps sold by this guy. And if were now making this a rights issue how come no one here complains about the "fake" works of  Da Vinci that are sold on ebay? You really believe your buying the real Mona Lisa 49.99? And no one has a problem with all the other sellers of "fake" wackys like this one ebay.com/itm/LOST-Wacky-Packages-DOGLIX-sticker-Irish-version-was-DOGLON-Mint-Free-Ship-/370643705529?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item564c161eb9

Really what it comes down to is greed and laziness. If you see a pretty G&E pic you just run the bid up outrageously high and don't bother to read the description. If you don't read what your buying and you bid 200.00 on a repo that's YOUR FAULT no one else is to blame.  And if this guy is such a con artist and all these people are getting "cleaned out" why is his feedback 100%.

No one can make you buy something you don't want and if you don't want a repo don't buy one. But if your going to bid on anything just READ THE LISTINGS DESCRIPTION FIRST. I would hope that everyone here who is able to use a forum is also able to read an ebay auction. The handful of you are making this much harder than it needs to be. and just looking at all that has been said on this seller, it's really quite childish how a few of you have handled yourselves.

[RawGoo]

Okay I really didn't want to revisit this issue,but here I am again. I have only seen titles that have been pulled by topps sold by this guy. And if were now making this a rights issue how come no one here complains about the "fake" works of  Da Vinci that are sold on ebay? You really believe your buying the real Mona Lisa 49.99? And no one has a problem with all the other sellers of "fake" wackys like this one ebay.com/itm/LOST-Wacky-Packages-DOGLIX-sticker-Irish-version-was-DOGLON-Mint-Free-Ship-/370643705529?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item564c161eb9

Really what it comes down to is greed and laziness. If you see a pretty G&E pic you just run the bid up outrageously high and don't bother to read the description. If you don't read what your buying and you bid 200.00 on a repo that's YOUR FAULT no one else is to blame.  And if this guy is such a con artist and all these people are getting "cleaned out" why is his feedback 100%.

No one can make you buy something you don't want and if you don't want a repo don't buy one. But if your going to bid on anything just READ THE LISTINGS DESCRIPTION FIRST. I would hope that everyone here who is able to use a forum is also able to read an ebay auction. The handful of you are making this much harder than it needs to be. and just looking at all that has been said on this seller, it's really quite childish how a few of you have handled yourselves.

The Mona Lisa comparison is meaningless, as there is just the one painting, whereas actual Ratz and Good & Empty cards were produced by Topps from the original art, and legitimate examples have been offered on ebay previously.  This seller is reproducing those cards, down to the Topps copyright lines, which can cause issues and confusion.  Previous repros of Ads and diecuts had drawn in perf lines, but these seem to have actual cut perfs - that makes a BIG difference, at least to me.  And, even if the current buyer knows he's buying a fake, that won't stop him from passing it off as legit later.  That's where the issues rise to the level of potentially threatening the hobby. 

The Lost Wackys have their own issues, but at least cannot be passed off as legitimate Topps product, since there is no Topps copyright on them.  I'm glad they were produced, but perhaps a logo on the back might have been a good idea.  I feel the same way about the ad and diecut repros with the drawn in perf lines.  Just my opinion.

[Forgers Coffee]

Finally someone makes some sense. Raw Goo you make a good point, I could see how that could happen since he does take the steps to add all the detail and for someone who is new to the hobby could easily see one of these repos in the future and buy it as a real card. Im sure if these points were set to the seller (I'll even do it) then he would make the changes. Even if they were just stamped repo on the back then that should be enough to calm the fear of them being passed off as real.

[Paul_Maul]

Finally someone makes some sense. Raw Goo you make a good point, I could see how that could happen since he does take the steps to add all the detail and for someone who is new to the hobby could easily see one of these repos in the future and buy it as a real card. Im sure if these points were set to the seller (I'll even do it) then he would make the changes. Even if they were just stamped repo on the back then that should be enough to calm the fear of them being passed off as real.

You seem awfully invested in the notion that the seller is innocent and well-meaning. Based on the original auctions that seems
quite a stretch.

[sco(o)t]

You seem awfully invested in the notion that the seller is innocent and well-meaning. Based on the original auctions that seems
quite a stretch.

Well, with a name like Forgers...     To Forger's Coffee I would add, I think that all people here are lobbying for is that any reproductions are clearly marked as such on the item itself and in any sales ads/literature/auctions, etc.

[MadMike]

I am glad that you like Raw Goo's point.  Of course, that means that you also like my point since I made that argument also in an earlier message.

"Once people buy them, do you think they might turn around and sell them as originals?  Maybe even that someone finds them at a garage sale and sells them as originals since they do not indicate that they are REPROS?"

Yes, I agree that they should be stamped as REPROS at the very least.  I will quote you as saying..."I have only seen titles that have been pulled by topps sold by this guy."  Well, from the discussion, you can clearly hear the members state that he had earlier auctions that were less upfront on the REPRO information.  Also, he has reproduced CIRCULATED stickers.  Shouldn't you have adjusted your commentary to reflect those details instead of just repeating yourself over and over and expecting better results? 

To quote you again, "I would hope that everyone here who is able to use a forum is also able to read an ebay auction."  Well, does that include you?  You don't seem to be able to read the previous comments in this thread and use the information you were lacking to help you form new opinions. 

Just because people don't agree with you in a forum does not mean they are childish.  Your "less than flattering" characterizations of members on this forum are not a good technique for making your points more valid.

I enjoy a good debate and always appreciate new points.  I would feel secure enough to change my opinion based on new information brought forth by the enormous wealth of knowledge in this forum.

PEACE OUT!

[Jean Nutty]

No one can make you buy something you don't want

Unless you want bonus cards and all of the other chase material     

[Kook]

I just saw this auction in this seller's completed auctions:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/22-Wacky-Pack-Old-School-Series-3-Sketch-Cards-Packages-Color-/120989013965?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c2b81d7cd&nma=true&si=rQvSj0hPeig5eopvbgIeKmSR75Q%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

What are people's thoughts on copying old school sketch cards & selling them?

[BumChex]

I just saw this auction in this seller's completed auctions:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/22-Wacky-Pack-Old-School-Series-3-Sketch-Cards-Packages-Color-/120989013965?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c2b81d7cd&nma=true&si=rQvSj0hPeig5eopvbgIeKmSR75Q%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

What are people's thoughts on copying old school sketch cards & selling them?

I mentioned this earlier and it was Matt Stock that bought this auction. I don't know if he actually paid for it though. As I mentioned it serves him right if he did get stuck with these as he has altered sketches as well.

[Dr Popper]

I definitely agree that the intent of these auctions is to deceive. I had to really "study" this sellers initial auctions to determine that they were repros/fakes. Guilding the lilly and caveat emptor come to mind. Any Brady Bunch fans out there??

I agree as well.  It seems as though he has "cleaned up" his descriptions recently, probably due to people emailing him and harassing him, but he original intent seemed deceptive, and selling repro's is not good overall for the hobby, especially if they are made to look identical to the original.