Author Topic: A WP Unopened Pack Reference Library  (Read 92405 times)

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Offline bandaches

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Re: A WP Unopened Pack Reference Library
« Reply #105 on: July 23, 2012, 06:01:39 PM »
Great deal. These are generally thought to be worth at least $50-75 apiece, but this kind of bargain can happen when supply and demand are both low. That's definitely the case with the OPC re-issues, and to a slightly lesser extent, the '82 and '85 OPC.

EDIT: Also just noticed OPC doesn't appear in the item title, that's probably a contributing cause as well....
Thanks for the confirmation, I didn't even notice the "OPC" was missing, one look at the picture and I knew they weren't standard reissue packs but I guess I am more a visual guy and others rely more on reading the headlines.
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Offline Paul_Maul

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Re: A WP Unopened Pack Reference Library
« Reply #106 on: July 25, 2012, 09:58:04 AM »
Topps created a green wrapper, coded 0-407-, for the 9th series. It should have been coded 0-473-, but that's a different story.

This green wrapper was the first one to feature several ad variations: an initial bracelet, a jade necklace, and the usual wacky packages wall poster (which originally had a December, 1974 expiration date).

The three different versions of the wrapper were alternated on the wrapper roll, and as a result, a full 9th series box would contain equal numbers of the three wrapper variations. This is noteworthy because it means that for a given series, the existence of a pack featuring one of these wrappers guarantees that packs exist with all three wrappers.

21-fold 9th series packs are far less common than their 85-fold counterparts, which are among the most common original series packs.

Offline Paul_Maul

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Re: A WP Unopened Pack Reference Library
« Reply #107 on: July 25, 2012, 10:01:53 AM »
Pack #38: 1974 9th Series 21-fold pack (initial bracelet ad)

 

Offline bandaches

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Re: A WP Unopened Pack Reference Library
« Reply #108 on: July 25, 2012, 10:11:25 AM »
Topps created a green wrapper, coded 0-407-, for the 9th series. It should have been coded 0-473-, but that's a different story.

This green wrapper was the first one to feature several ad variations: an initial bracelet, a jade necklace, and the usual wacky packages wall poster (which originally had a December, 1974 expiration date).

The three different versions of the wrapper were alternated on the wrapper roll, and as a result, a full 9th series box would contain equal numbers of the three wrapper variations. This is noteworthy because it means that for a given series, the existence of a pack featuring one of these wrappers guarantees that packs exist with all three wrappers.

21-fold 9th series packs are far less common than their 85-fold counterparts, which are among the most common original series packs.
Full boxes are not necessarily going to have all three wrappers....many full boxes were pieced together.  Reissue boxes and series 16 boxes always had exact equal numbers of wrapper variations for boxes I came across that I knew weren't pieced together by dealers trying to "make" a box.
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Offline Paul_Maul

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Re: A WP Unopened Pack Reference Library
« Reply #109 on: July 25, 2012, 10:15:10 AM »
Full boxes are not necessarily going to have all three wrappers....many full boxes were pieced together.  Reissue boxes and series 16 boxes always had exact equal numbers of wrapper variations for boxes I came across that I knew weren't pieced together by dealers trying to "make" a box.

I was talking about legitimate full boxes, not ones that are pieced together. Also, series 3 and 4 re-issue boxes (where there are only two ad variations) have 2/3 of the packs being one variation, and 1/3 of the packs the other, I believe. In fact, I think the wall poster ad may be over-represented on the wrapper rolls even for the earlier re-issue series. But definitely not for the original series.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2012, 10:19:43 AM by Paul_Maul »

Offline Paul_Maul

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Re: A WP Unopened Pack Reference Library
« Reply #110 on: July 25, 2012, 10:26:53 AM »
Pack #39: 1974 9th Series 21-fold pack (jade necklace ad)

 

Offline bandaches

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Re: A WP Unopened Pack Reference Library
« Reply #111 on: July 25, 2012, 02:17:40 PM »
I was talking about legitimate full boxes, not ones that are pieced together. Also, series 3 and 4 re-issue boxes (where there are only two ad variations) have 2/3 of the packs being one variation, and 1/3 of the packs the other, I believe. In fact, I think the wall poster ad may be over-represented on the wrapper rolls even for the earlier re-issue series. But definitely not for the original series.
Good point about the reissue, I was referring to series 1 since I owned a full unopened case of those once so I could be 100% certain the contents were not pieced together.  Interestingly, there was an uneven mix of yellow and black price tags.  It was weird that hardly anyone seemed to even notice there were different colored price tags on the box until I called it out in reviewing my case.
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Offline Paul_Maul

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Re: A WP Unopened Pack Reference Library
« Reply #112 on: July 25, 2012, 04:31:50 PM »
Good point about the reissue, I was referring to series 1 since I owned a full unopened case of those once so I could be 100% certain the contents were not pieced together.  Interestingly, there was an uneven mix of yellow and black price tags.  It was weird that hardly anyone seemed to even notice there were different colored price tags on the box until I called it out in reviewing my case.

Cool, I always assumed the two different 1st re-ish boxes were somehow from different runs. Never knew they could be in the same case. I still learn something new every day!

Offline bigtomi

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Re: A WP Unopened Pack Reference Library
« Reply #113 on: July 25, 2012, 05:43:00 PM »
21-fold 9th series packs are far less common than their 85-fold counterparts, which are among the most common original series packs.
Dave, why do you think this is the case? My recollection is that, by the 9th series, Wackys were still selling quite well, though definitely on the downslope. Is it because 9th boxes were put away more for some reason, people just saved the packs, it was an overproduced series or some other reason? It seems illogical to me that there'd be a lot of unopened 9th material, given their popularity still. Maybe there's some secret Wacky Pack fact that I'm unaware of with 9th series?

Offline Paul_Maul

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Re: A WP Unopened Pack Reference Library
« Reply #114 on: July 25, 2012, 06:01:32 PM »
Dave, why do you think this is the case? My recollection is that, by the 9th series, Wackys were still selling quite well, though definitely on the downslope. Is it because 9th boxes were put away more for some reason, people just saved the packs, it was an overproduced series or some other reason? It seems illogical to me that there'd be a lot of unopened 9th material, given their popularity still. Maybe there's some secret Wacky Pack fact that I'm unaware of with 9th series?

I think the main reason 85-fold 9th and 10th series packs are extremely common is that there was a huge hoard of unopened boxes that came into the possession of those guys who always set up at the Allentown show. They've been selling 85-fold 9th and 10th series packs (and unopened full boxes - Ernie bought a bunch of boxes from them years ago, as did I) since before I entered the hobby. I think they've finally run out of 9ths, though they showed up at the last show with more 10ths.

I often wonder whether the seeming rarity of certain packs relative to others has any real production based cause, or if it's just more a fluke of what finds happened to have turned up.

Offline Paul_Maul

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Re: A WP Unopened Pack Reference Library
« Reply #115 on: July 25, 2012, 06:06:25 PM »
Pack #40: 1974 9th Series 21-fold pack (Wall Poster 1974 ad)

 

Offline bandaches

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Re: A WP Unopened Pack Reference Library
« Reply #116 on: July 25, 2012, 08:07:14 PM »
I think the main reason 85-fold 9th and 10th series packs are extremely common is that there was a huge hoard of unopened boxes that came into the possession of those guys who always set up at the Allentown show. They've been selling 85-fold 9th and 10th series packs (and unopened full boxes - Ernie bought a bunch of boxes from them years ago, as did I) since before I entered the hobby. I think they've finally run out of 9ths, though they showed up at the last show with more 10ths.

I often wonder whether the seeming rarity of certain packs relative to others has any real production based cause, or if it's just more a fluke of what finds happened to have turned up.
My 10th series packs are from the Pupsi run.  I can see a Pupsi through the wrapper of one of them.
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Offline Kook

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Re: A WP Unopened Pack Reference Library
« Reply #117 on: July 26, 2012, 06:06:32 AM »
I think the main reason 85-fold 9th and 10th series packs are extremely common is that there was a huge hoard of unopened boxes that came into the possession of those guys who always set up at the Allentown show. They've been selling 85-fold 9th and 10th series packs (and unopened full boxes - Ernie bought a bunch of boxes from them years ago, as did I) since before I entered the hobby. I think they've finally run out of 9ths, though they showed up at the last show with more 10ths.

I often wonder whether the seeming rarity of certain packs relative to others has any real production based cause, or if it's just more a fluke of what finds happened to have turned up.

I think you are right to question the randomness of packs showing up as it relates to the production. In my multi-year upgrade quest of the original 16 series, I'm finding it most difficult to get really nice high quality 9th series stickers. Shortly behind that is the 14th series. 9th & 14th series packs are relatively common & not very expensive. I find that also very strange and feel that it's more an anomoly that 9th & 14th packs have been preserved by chance & have been discovered, rather than an overproduction (of stickers) from those series. If overproduction were the case, finding the stickers would be a lot easier IMO.

As a side note, I've noticed the 9th series pricing, especially in nice condition, has been slowly climbing over the past few years.

Offline bigtomi

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Re: A WP Unopened Pack Reference Library
« Reply #118 on: July 26, 2012, 08:49:55 AM »
If overproduction were the case, finding the stickers would be a lot easier IMO.
I think it depends on how you look at "overproduction" and its results: My definition of it is that Topps made too much material that did not sell to final consumers, hence left unopened all these years. I think you're looking at it as lots of it produced that also got to the hands of consumers, which would logically mean more material available in the market (making finding the stickers easier).

Offline Kook

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Re: A WP Unopened Pack Reference Library
« Reply #119 on: July 26, 2012, 09:24:15 AM »
I think it depends on how you look at "overproduction" and its results: My definition of it is that Topps made too much material that did not sell to final consumers, hence left unopened all these years. I think you're looking at it as lots of it produced that also got to the hands of consumers, which would logically mean more material available in the market (making finding the stickers easier).

It doesn't seem to me that they had a problem selling the product back in the 1st to 16th day. My interpretation of your definition of over production seems to imply (or apply to) the later series i.e. reissues, album stickers or 1991 sets or possibly the ANS runs. When I referred to overproduction, I meant that there was more than enough supply to meet the purchasing needs of all of us kids back in the 70s, for us to stick all the stickers we wanted back then, to "preserve" the stickers we wanted in our collections back then & still have ample supply floating around 35+ years later for us to recollect, in whatever condition we wanted, without paying a fortune or engaging in a multi-year search. My observation was that the 9th & 14th series are considerably more difficult to locate in nice condition, or in large numbers relative to many other original series sets (except for the 1st & 16th).

Offline Paul_Maul

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Re: A WP Unopened Pack Reference Library
« Reply #120 on: July 26, 2012, 09:58:33 AM »
Pack #41: 1974 9th Series 85-fold pack (initial bracelet ad)

 

Offline Paul_Maul

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Re: A WP Unopened Pack Reference Library
« Reply #121 on: July 26, 2012, 10:47:44 AM »
Pack #42: 1974 9th Series 85-fold pack (jade necklace ad)

 

Offline Paul_Maul

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Re: A WP Unopened Pack Reference Library
« Reply #122 on: July 26, 2012, 01:32:44 PM »
Pack #43: 1974 9th Series 85-fold pack (Wall Poster 1974 ad)

 
« Last Edit: July 26, 2012, 01:34:23 PM by Paul_Maul »

Offline Paul_Maul

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Re: A WP Unopened Pack Reference Library
« Reply #123 on: July 26, 2012, 01:41:12 PM »
A note on the expiration date for the wall poster ad on the green 0-407- wrappers:

At some point, the expiration date on the green 0-407- coded wrapper with wall poster ad was changed from 12/31/1974 to 7/30/1975. I think it's clear that the 1975 dated wrapper was never used for the 9th series. The 10th series wall poster ad was still exclusively dated 1974, and the 1974 version was still in use for the 11th series. As I'll explain later, I believe the 11th series (which was on sale in December, 1974) was the series during which the change from the 1974 dated wrapper to the 1975 dated wrapper occurred, and I believe the 11th series to be the only series for which both versions of the wrapper (details to be discussed later) were used.


Offline Paul_Maul

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Re: A WP Unopened Pack Reference Library
« Reply #124 on: July 27, 2012, 07:30:42 AM »
Series 10 featured a new purple wrapper coded 0-477-. The wrapper featured the same three ad variations that were used for series 9.  Once again, 85-fold 10th series packs are MUCH MUCH more common than the 21-fold ones, which seem to rarely turn up anymore. The funny part is there seems to be no real difference in market value between the 21's and 85's.

The 21-fold wrapper comes in two variations as the result of an error in the printing process. The "Quacker Oats" can should have been colored blue, but it was mistakenly colored red. This error was corrected by overstriking the red area with the correct blue color. The result was a rather sickly brownish quacker can. Not sure why they didn't just leave the can red, since the corrected version looks far from correct.

I haven't been able to hunt down the "ID Bracelet" version of the 21-fold 10th series pack with blue quacker can. In fact, of the 61 different series 1-16 packs I'm certain exist, the only two I'm missing are both 21-fold 10ths.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2012, 07:38:37 AM by Paul_Maul »

Offline Paul_Maul

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Re: A WP Unopened Pack Reference Library
« Reply #125 on: July 27, 2012, 07:33:54 AM »
Pack #44: 1974 10th Series 21-fold pack (blue quacker can, jade necklace ad)



Offline Paul_Maul

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Re: A WP Unopened Pack Reference Library
« Reply #126 on: July 27, 2012, 10:05:48 AM »
Pack #45: 1974 10th Series 21-fold pack (blue quacker can, wall poster ad)

 

Offline Paul_Maul

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Re: A WP Unopened Pack Reference Library
« Reply #127 on: July 27, 2012, 08:59:29 PM »
Pack #46: 1974 10th Series 21-fold pack (brown quacker can, initial bracelet ad)

 

For years I couldn't find a single 10th series unopened pack with the brown quacker can. Then one day in December, 2010 a group of these packs came up on ebay. They were described as low grade and falling open, but that same description was used on every lot sold by that seller. I took a chance and made a deal for all 13 packs the seller had. Wasn't too hard to make a deal as I was likely the only person excited about these. When I got them, the bad news was that for some reason out of 13 packs only 2 of the 3 ad variations were present. The good news was, while condition varied, there were several of each variation that were pretty nice. Both shown here are from that group.

(I still don't have the "jade necklace" variation of the 10th 21-fold with brown quacker can.)
« Last Edit: July 27, 2012, 09:03:41 PM by Paul_Maul »

Offline Paul_Maul

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Re: A WP Unopened Pack Reference Library
« Reply #128 on: July 27, 2012, 09:04:23 PM »
Pack #47: 1974 10th Series 21-fold pack (brown quacker can, wall poster ad)

 

Offline Paul_Maul

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Re: A WP Unopened Pack Reference Library
« Reply #129 on: July 28, 2012, 01:51:59 PM »
Pack #48: 1974 10th Series 85-fold pack (initial bracelet ad)

 

Offline bandaches

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Re: A WP Unopened Pack Reference Library
« Reply #130 on: July 28, 2012, 02:26:15 PM »
Pack #45: 1974 10th Series 21-fold pack (blue quacker can, wall poster ad)

(Image removed from quote.)  (Image removed from quote.)

"I still don't have the "jade necklace" variation of the 10th 21-fold with brown quacker can.)"

Does this exist for sure?  It is missing from my wrapper collection too.
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Offline Paul_Maul

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Re: A WP Unopened Pack Reference Library
« Reply #131 on: July 28, 2012, 03:51:18 PM »
"I still don't have the "jade necklace" variation of the 10th 21-fold with brown quacker can.)"

Does this exist for sure?  It is missing from my wrapper collection too.

It does exist, I do have the wrapper. Like the 9ths, these three wrappers all come on the same roll I believe, so all three packs should exist if any of them do.

Offline Paul_Maul

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Re: A WP Unopened Pack Reference Library
« Reply #132 on: July 28, 2012, 04:49:13 PM »
Pack #49: 1974 10th Series 85-fold pack (jade necklace ad)

 

Offline Paul_Maul

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Re: A WP Unopened Pack Reference Library
« Reply #133 on: July 28, 2012, 07:57:08 PM »
Pack #50: 1974 10th Series 85-fold pack (wall poster ad)

 

Offline Paul_Maul

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Re: A WP Unopened Pack Reference Library
« Reply #134 on: July 30, 2012, 09:55:22 AM »
The 11th series presents a challenge to collectors of unopened material. Not only does the 11th feature the most different unopened packs of any of the original series, but they're all much harder to find than surrounding series. The reasons for this aren't really clear, though it may have something to do with the fact that the series was not originally planned as a wacky series.

A yellow wrapper (coded 0-478-) was created specifically for the 11th series. The fact that it features different advertisements than surrounding series is probably also attributable to it being planned as a non-wacky series.

11th series yellow packs have always been pretty hard to find. I got one in decent shape from Roxanne Toser in the early 2000's. 11th series packs are involved in one of the coolest pack finds ever. Sometime in the 2000's, the proprietor of an online tea company (who is also a sports collector) came up with a large group of 11th series packs, both yellow and green.  Greg Grant purchased them, and the majority of the group (which totaled over 100 packs) was sold to a single collector. Those packs were later sold (again, as a group) to another collector.

So the majority of these packs were not available to the public, though some were sold to others directly by the tea-man. In the last year, the collector in question sold off all of the yellow packs from the find, many of which have appeared on ebay at different times. So the 11th yellow packs are now slightly more available than the green ones as a result.

All of the yellow packs shown below are from that same find. They're all in great condition, as were all of the packs from that group.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2012, 10:03:18 AM by Paul_Maul »

Offline Paul_Maul

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Re: A WP Unopened Pack Reference Library
« Reply #135 on: July 30, 2012, 09:59:12 AM »
Pack #51: 1974 11th Series yellow pack ("bazooka has it all" ad)

 
 

Offline Paul_Maul

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Re: A WP Unopened Pack Reference Library
« Reply #136 on: July 30, 2012, 10:05:17 AM »
Pack #52: 1974 11th Series yellow pack ("be prepared for gum" ad)

 

Offline Paul_Maul

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Re: A WP Unopened Pack Reference Library
« Reply #137 on: July 30, 2012, 10:08:45 AM »
Pack #53: 1974 11th Series yellow pack ("lotsa friends" ad)

 

Offline Paul_Maul

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Re: A WP Unopened Pack Reference Library
« Reply #138 on: July 30, 2012, 01:35:04 PM »
The green 0-407- coded wrappers that were first used for the 9th series were also used for the 11th series. At first, the same exact wrappers from the 9th series were used. Sometime during the 11th series release, the expiration date on the wall poster ad was changed from 12/31/74 to 7/30/75. The 21-fold wall poster wrapper with 1975 expiration date was definitely used for the 11th series, and that pack is pictured below.

Interestingly, the 1975 dated wall poster wrappers always occur on their own rolls. So full boxes of green packs contain either a mix of the 3 ad variations (id bracelet, jade necklace, '74 wall poster) or contain ALL '75 wall posters.

I have yet to determine whether the 85-fold wall poster wrapper with 1975 expiration date was used for series 11. It's definitely possible that it was. It's been difficult to be sure, because the 11th series 85-fold pack with '75 wall poster ad is probably the most frequently faked pack out there. I've examined (at last count) 5 copies of this pack that were all clear fakes, and have yet to find a legitimate one. The reason it's faked so often is that it's a very common wrapper (used for the 12th series) and a pretty valuable pack.

In fact, all green 11th series packs are very commonly found as fakes since the 85-fold 9th series wrappers are also very common. At one point, I had 7 of these packs and exactly one of them was legit. As I'll describe below, all of the green 11th series packs I have came from the same two sources. All 11th greens I've examined not from these sources have been fake.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2012, 01:37:21 PM by Paul_Maul »

Offline Paul_Maul

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Re: A WP Unopened Pack Reference Library
« Reply #139 on: July 30, 2012, 01:53:50 PM »
Pack #54: 1974 11th Series green 21-fold pack (initial bracelet ad)

 


All of the 21-fold green 11ths that appear here are from the same origin. It was a group of packs that Kirk Daniel owned, and which was later purchased by Greg Schwartz. Greg is a fantastic guy who has helped me a lot with my collection, and allowed me to choose several packs from this group. Thanks also go to Bill Farinella for trading me the above pack (after he got it from Greg S.) It was a huge favor because I doubt I would have ever found it elsewhere.

In general, these packs are not super high grade, but they are the only legitimate examples of these packs I've ever seen.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2012, 01:56:29 PM by Paul_Maul »

 

anything