Fake sketch - buyer beware

[sco(o)t]

This discussion makes me wonder if the four Zeleznik color sketches currently on eBay are authentic.

[BumChex]

This discussion makes me wonder if the four Zeleznik color sketches currently on eBay are authentic.

I think the Hipton and H&B is but I'm a bit cautious of the Punks. They are probably all legit since he know which sketches are altered and removed them. He also knows the altered ones he sold other collectors.

[jeffcaff]

Head and Boulders is legit.  I sold this to him a few weeks ago.

[Hustler08]

Head and Boulders is legit.  I sold this to him a few weeks ago.

That one looks legit...BUT the Hawaiin Punks - looks shady - slim shady...red looks too dark...

[Porkie]

Dunno - that Punks could be legit. My color Puffer by him is not that different and the shading around the face and eyes is pretty interesting (while the red coat is a bit dull I'll admit).

Is there a way to contact him? Would be ideal for us to verify the status of color sketches, especially since mine was one of those "color sketches done on a non-color-captioned card".

[quas]

That one looks legit...BUT the Hawaiin Punks - looks shady - slim shady...red looks too dark...

It is my understanding that Matt took down all the altered sketches last week - those that remain are legit.

[quas]

Dunno - that Punks could be legit. My color Puffer by him is not that different and the shading around the face and eyes is pretty interesting (while the red coat is a bit dull I'll admit).

Is there a way to contact him? Would be ideal for us to verify the status of color sketches, especially since mine was one of those "color sketches done on a non-color-captioned card".

I just contacted him and, while I realize there is a credibility issue, confirmed that all the altered sketch auctions have been ended.

[BumChex]

I just contacted him and, while I realize there is a credibility issue, confirmed that all the altered sketch auctions have been ended.

Does anyone still want to guess what his intentions were? If he wasn't sure what he was selling he wouldn't have known what to take down.

[sco(o)t]

Does anyone still want to guess what his intentions were? If he wasn't sure what he was selling he wouldn't have known what to take down.

That's what I was wondering... if he didn't know they were altered to start with, how does he know he got them all? The only explanation would be if all the altered sketches came from the same source (which would be likely anyway) and these others came from elsewhere. I think if I were in his shoes, I would be singing like a canary to try and explain the situation and salvage my own reputation a bit.

[BumChex]

That's what I was wondering... if he didn't know they were altered to start with, how does he know he got them all? The only explanation would be if all the altered sketches came from the same source (which would be likely anyway) and these others came from elsewhere. I think if I were in his shoes, I would be singing like a canary to try and explain the situation and salvage my own reputation a bit.

He was probably hoping he could have gotten away with it.

[bandaches]

I just contacted him and, while I realize there is a credibility issue, confirmed that all the altered sketch auctions have been ended.

How does matt know which sketches are altered?  Obviously he must know a great deal about the source of the alterations.  At this point, I wouldn't buy anything from him until a full explanation is put forth.

[MadMike]

Don't know the guy, but SHADY comes to mind.

[Porkie]

Seems like the artists should really pay attention to the "Color Sketch Card" caption on the back of the blank cards when they do them, and that would take care of this problem. Having the artists take a snapshot of their color cards is also a great idea.

Both color sketch cards I pulled from PC8 (a Zeleznik and a Parisi) were done on cards where the back does not say "Color Sketch Card", and one of my B&W's (a Parisi) is done on a card that says "Color Sketch Card". Topps should probably make the difference a bit easier for the artists to notice (it is pretty darn subtle and I don't blame the artists at all for missing them) - maybe make the back noticeably different (i.e. not just the tiny text)?

[Joe G.]

Porkie, I agree.  What's the point of Topps printing separate 'color sketch card' cards if artists don't use them.  Did Old School 3 have a 'color sketch card' card?

[sco(o)t]

Porkie, I agree.  What's the point of Topps printing separate 'color sketch card' cards if artists don't use them.  Did Old School 3 have a 'color sketch card' card?

Having worked in a large corporation these past 15 years I have seen things like this over and over. Someone probably had the good idea to mark the sketch cards for color or not, had meetings to discuss and approve at the top level, designed the cards, maufactured the cards, and then someone probably forgot to tell the artists to look for this when creating the sketches. Many good intentions only reach about 95% implementation and then something falls through the cracks.

[BumChex]

Porkie, I agree.  What's the point of Topps printing separate 'color sketch card' cards if artists don't use them.  Did Old School 3 have a 'color sketch card' card?

OLDS3 doesn't have any indication that it's supposed to be color. I think it was OLDS2 that the color cards have the upside down back.

[BumChex]

Having worked in a large corporation these past 15 years I have seen things like this over and over. Someone probably had the good idea to mark the sketch cards for color or not, had meetings to discuss and approve at the top level, designed the cards, maufactured the cards, and then someone probably forgot to tell the artists to look for this when creating the sketches. Many good intentions only reach about 95% implementation and then something falls through the cracks.

That's funny. I see this a lot.

[BumChex]

Matt has been selling tons of sketches lately on ebay.  How did he come into so many?  Did he really buy that many boxes with the sketch market being so weak?  Did he offere details on where he got this one so we can track the source of the card?

Please elaborate on "fake".  Is this merely a regular sketch that was colored in or is whole card 100% fake?

The sketch market isn't weak it depends on the sketch you have. Look at completed auctions and see one sold today for around $150 for a Parisi B&W along with a bunch of Parisi B&W's for over $50 each. The irony here is he seems to have and endless supply of Parisi sketches. There are about another dozen posted tonight. I have bought a ton of boxes and never pulled this many Parisis. I also find it strange that Parisis are all he is selling. I can't figure this out. Why does he have so many from one artist? He has been buying boxes and selling sketches but I can't figure out why he is selling so many from one artist on eBay. It's obvious he's been getting a good price for these but it's really odd. Why not so many of other artists? Are all he Parisis back loaded? I can't figure it out.
He sells his sketches on the side before listing them but if Parisis are so hot why aren't they buying them on the side?
This all isn't adding up and I'm no forensic scientist.

[Dr Popper]

Seems like the artists should really pay attention to the "Color Sketch Card" caption on the back of the blank cards when they do them, and that would take care of this problem. Having the artists take a snapshot of their color cards is also a great idea.

Both color sketch cards I pulled from PC8 (a Zeleznik and a Parisi) were done on cards where the back does not say "Color Sketch Card", and one of my B&W's (a Parisi) is done on a card that says "Color Sketch Card". Topps should probably make the difference a bit easier for the artists to notice (it is pretty darn subtle and I don't blame the artists at all for missing them) - maybe make the back noticeably different (i.e. not just the tiny text)?

I would do the backs in a completely different color and maybe even something on the front as well.  I would think Topps will take some more aggressive measures for future sketch series to make it harder to do.  If not it will kill the sketch cards because they will lack the integrity they've had up to this point.  The sketch cards are a backbone for a lot of Topps' series so I would think it would be a pretty big issue for them.   

[Tic_Toc]

The sketch market isn't weak it depends on the sketch you have. Look at completed auctions and see one sold today for around $150 for a Parisi B&W along with a bunch of Parisi B&W's for over $50 each. The irony here is he seems to have and endless supply of Parisi sketches. There are about another dozen posted tonight. I have bought a ton of boxes and never pulled this many Parisis. I also find it strange that Parisis are all he is selling. I can't figure this out. Why does he have so many from one artist? He has been buying boxes and selling sketches but I can't figure out why he is selling so many from one artist on eBay. It's obvious he's been getting a good price for these but it's really odd. Why not so many of other artists? Are all he Parisis back loaded? I can't figure it out.
He sells his sketches on the side before listing them but if Parisis are so hot why aren't they buying them on the side?
This all isn't adding up and I'm no forensic scientist.

I wondered about all those Parisi sketches myself.  They look like his hand, but the odds of one guy pulling that many Parisi sketches from random boxes is very low, unless he had dozens of boxes to open or the coallation was terrible.  And the fact that all these Parisi sketches have come from the same seller who was peddling altered sketches makes it that much more fishy.  I know Mark posts on here - any thoughts Mark?

[RawGoo]

I wondered about all those Parisi sketches myself.  They look like his hand, but the odds of one guy pulling that many Parisi sketches from random boxes is very low, unless he had dozens of boxes to open or the coallation was terrible.  And the fact that all these Parisi sketches have come from the same seller who was peddling altered sketches makes it that much more fishy.  I know Mark posts on here - any thoughts Mark?

And so many combos, too.

[Gurgle]

I wondered about all those Parisi sketches myself.  They look like his hand, but the odds of one guy pulling that many Parisi sketches from random boxes is very low, unless he had dozens of boxes to open or the coallation was terrible.  And the fact that all these Parisi sketches have come from the same seller who was peddling altered sketches makes it that much more fishy.  I know Mark posts on here - any thoughts Mark?

The eight that I see on eBay are legit. No idea how one person ended up with them all. Maybe you're right and he just bought a lot.

[Hustler08]

The eight that I see on eBay are legit. No idea how one person ended up with them all. Maybe you're right and he just bought a lot.

that is VERY strange...is the colored Hawaiin Punks guy legit?

[bandaches]

It seems fair to say at this point that no explanation is going to be offered and hence we can only draw the conclusion that matt altered these which explains why he knows exactly which ones were altered.  Why would anyone give credance to the story that he pulled "all" of the altered ones when deceit was the goal all along?

[RawGoo]

It seems fair to say at this point that no explanation is going to be offered and hence we can only draw the conclusion that matt altered these which explains why he knows exactly which ones were altered.  Why would anyone give credance to the story that he pulled "all" of the altered ones when deceit was the goal all along?

I still want to see scans of the altered sketches cut in half or otherwise destroyed/wrecked, like a sharpie through them.

[Dr Popper]

The eight that I see on eBay are legit. No idea how one person ended up with them all. Maybe you're right and he just bought a lot.

They didn't look altered to me but they did look like they were ones you spent extra time on, like possibly return cards.  Glad to here they are legit.

[bandaches]

I still want to see scans of the altered sketches cut in half or otherwise destroyed/wrecked, like a sharpie through them.

Good point!!

[Gurgle]

that is VERY strange...is the colored Hawaiin Punks guy legit?

I don't see that one. Could you link to it?

[Dr Popper]

Good point!!

Good luck!

[BumChex]

The eight that I see on eBay are legit. No idea how one person ended up with them all. Maybe you're right and he just bought a lot.

Mark, how about this one?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Wacky-Packages-OS3-Sketch-Card-Topps-TIPSY-ROLL-BLACK-BACK-NO-RESERVE-Parisi-/221042337412?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3377266684

[Gurgle]

Mark, how about this one?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Wacky-Packages-OS3-Sketch-Card-Topps-TIPSY-ROLL-BLACK-BACK-NO-RESERVE-Parisi-/221042337412?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3377266684

That one's legit, too.

[quas]

Having worked in a large corporation these past 15 years I have seen things like this over and over. Someone probably had the good idea to mark the sketch cards for color or not, had meetings to discuss and approve at the top level, designed the cards, maufactured the cards, and then someone probably forgot to tell the artists to look for this when creating the sketches. Many good intentions only reach about 95% implementation and then something falls through the cracks.

This is a familiar pattern.  It's like people who have great ideas all the time and they're only good at generating ideas but not following through and implementing them so they work out as intended.

[Jean Nutty]

Having worked in a large corporation these past 15 years I have seen things like this over and over. Someone probably had the good idea to mark the sketch cards for color or not, had meetings to discuss and approve at the top level, designed the cards, maufactured the cards, and then someone probably forgot to tell the artists to look for this when creating the sketches. Many good intentions only reach about 95% implementation and then something falls through the cracks.

lol, I missed this post before

Yeah, I think we all can relate to a system or process lacking 5% implementation and the sometimes disastrous consequences. I bet we all have a couple of solid rocket booster stories!

I suspect someone at Topps either left the final draft of the QC document on top of the water cooler (maybe it was thrown away by the overnight Janitor in a Slum), or the Wacky Sketch SOP was e-mailed to everyone, but the memo somehow ended up in people’s Outlook Spam folder

[quas]

lol, I missed this post before

Yeah, I think we all can relate to a system or process lacking 5% implementation and the sometimes disastrous consequences. I bet we all have a couple of solid rocket booster stories!

I suspect someone at Topps either left the final draft of the QC document on top of the water cooler (maybe it was thrown away by the overnight Janitor in a Slum), or the Wacky Sketch SOP was e-mailed to everyone, but the memo somehow ended up in people’s Outlook Spam folder

Hopefully Topps will chalk it up to a learning experience and not have a repeat, starting with OS4.