Fake sketch - buyer beware

[BumChex]

This is probably a fake:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_trksid=p4340.l2557&hash=item3375f8ab27&item=221022563111&nma=true&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&rt=nc&si=%252F1v3c9P%252FKYlUnC11GV%252FsP2SmwrQ%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

Here are the pictures of Engstroms color sketches and this one is not on there. Looks like Leslie bought it.

[quas]

I saw a whole bunch of sketch listings cancelled with either highlighting or color. I wonder if these may have been enhanced/altered as well. If the backs were scanned, you could tell by the copyright, but only the fronts were in the auction.

Additionally, I would call them altered, and not fake. From what you've said, they are actual sketch cards, just altered. That would indicate there's not an endless supply, but you must beware of the ones you receive, and at the very least, check the copyright about coloring.

This would be a perfect use for the sketch book/magazine talked about before. If the sketches were catalogued (great additional product), the catalogue could be used to at least verify a sketch image as genuine in addition to its aesthetic appeal. It could be available online with watermarks, and a link could be written on the back of the card. Anyone with any doubt could simply logon and check the card they have.

I think at a minimum Topps should have an image of every color sketch of a series.  That way if someone wanted to verify genuineness before buying/bidding, they could send the image to Topps and ask if it's in the "catalog".  I much prefer colors that don't show up on a sketch poster since you as owner don't simply have a card and everyone else has the image, but you basically have the only image.  Maybe that's selfish.......but in case case, the downside is that you don't always know if your card is genuine.  The integrity of the seller is key.

[Hustler08]

This is probably a fake:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_trksid=p4340.l2557&hash=item3375f8ab27&item=221022563111&nma=true&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&rt=nc&si=%252F1v3c9P%252FKYlUnC11GV%252FsP2SmwrQ%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

Here are the pictures of Engstroms color sketches and this one is not on there. Looks like Leslie bought it.

Dude,

You can see the PINK magic marker in the scan - and it was done quite messy...didn't MS take coloring in school.... - nice price though....love the red tongue - look at the pink color outside the black line - amazing...I am going to have a talk with his kindergarden teacher!!!!  

[quas]

You're barking up the wrong tree with the "MS" reference.

I actually thought about the idea of somebody coloring sketches when OS3 came out, but it was just a thought.  I can't believe that (a) someone actually did it and (b) they did it not for themselves but to try and make money by fooling other people.

Marc

[BumChex]

You're barking up the wrong tree with the "MS" reference.



Marc

HaHa, He's not referring to you even though your initials are the same.

[BumChex]

Dude,

You can see the PINK magic marker in the scan - and it was done quite messy...didn't MS take coloring in school.... - nice price though....love the red tongue - look at the pink color outside the black line - amazing...I am going to have a talk with his kindergarden teacher!!!!  

The strange thing is they are all Engstroms:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_trksid=p4340.l2557&hash=item33762b477d&item=221025879933&nma=true&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&rt=nc&si=%252F1v3c9P%252FKYlUnC11GV%252FsP2SmwrQ%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_trksid=p4340.l2557&hash=item337684dd83&item=221031751043&nma=true&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&rt=nc&si=%252F1v3c9P%252FKYlUnC11GV%252FsP2SmwrQ%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

[quas]

HaHa, He's not referring to you even though your initials are the same.

Oops - sorry about that Hustler08 - I saw my initials and forgot that they could be someone else's as well - but just wanted to make sure.

However if anyone wants to send me a B&W sketch and have me color it for them for $100 I'm sure I could do great things with a box of Crayolas..............   

[BumChex]

This is also a fake Mark confirmed it:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_trksid=p4340.l2557&hash=item33762b4eae&item=221025881774&nma=true&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&rt=nc&si=%252F1v3c9P%252FKYlUnC11GV%252FsP2SmwrQ%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

[Hustler08]

Oops - sorry about that Hustler08 - I saw my initials and forgot that they could be someone else's as well - but just wanted to make sure.

However if anyone wants to send me a B&W sketch and have me color it for them for $100 I'm sure I could do great things with a box of Crayolas..............   
[/quote
It's cool dude not you of course I know you can color ))
There seems to be a bunch of them - sad and pathetic

[Paul_Maul]

HaHa, He's not referring to you even though your initials are the same.

I don't see the humor in obliquely accusing someone of intentional fraud without evidence. From what I understand, Matt Stock sold the sketch in question. That is miles from a.) establishing he knew it was altered and it is light years from b.) establishing that he created it.

[BumChex]

I don't see the humor in obliquely accusing someone of intentional fraud without evidence. From what I understand, Matt Stock sold the sketch in question. That is miles from a.) establishing he knew it was altered and it is light years from b.) establishing that he created it.

I was making humor because Marc Simon thought he we getting referred to in the post. I'm just pointing out what auctions are fake color sketches. You can decide how you want to use this information. My understanding is 2 of the color fakes were sold and refunded quickly. Mine was refunded in less than an hour. I don't think I plan to do business with a seller of fake sketches but you can do what you want.
I don't know if Matt is talented with a marker but he may know who colored the sketches?

[sco(o)t]

So at least 4 confirmed "colorized" sketches. Is Ted Turner is involved in any way? Almost makes me glad I didn't pull any color OS3 or postcard 8 sketches... Almost. 

[BumChex]

So at least 4 confirmed "colorized" sketches. Is Ted Turner is involved in any way? Almost makes me glad I didn't pull any color OS3 or postcard 8 sketches... Almost.  

yep and there's more:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_trksid=p4340.l2557&hash=item3375bf71c8&item=221018812872&nma=true&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&rt=nc&si=%252F1v3c9P%252FKYlUnC11GV%252FsP2SmwrQ%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

[Joe G.]

I don't think anyone here is trying to place blame but just informing the rest of us of things to look out for.  This information is useful, so thanks.  It's a shame about the altered Postcard 8 Parisi sketch as I've been trying to get one of his from that series.

[RawGoo]

I was making humor because Marc Simon thought he we getting referred to in the post. I'm just pointing out what auctions are fake color sketches. You can decide how you want to use this information. My understanding is 2 of the color fakes were sold and refunded quickly. Mine was refunded in less than an hour. I don't think I plan to do business with a seller of fake sketches but you can do what you want.
I don't know if Matt is talented with a marker but he may know who colored the sketches?

Just to clarify - were these transactions refunded before the sketches in question even shipped?   Has anyone here actually received one of the altered sketches?

If this is in fact more than a single freak occurence, I can't see myself bidding on this seller's auctions in the future. 

[Paul_Maul]

Just to clarify - were these transactions refunded before the sketches in question even shipped?   Has anyone here actually received one of the altered sketches?

If this is in fact more than a single freak occurence, I can't see myself bidding on this seller's auctions in the future. 

It would certainly behoove the seller to explain where the sketches came from. My future bidding behavior would hinge on the explanation.

[RawGoo]

It would certainly behoove the seller to explain where the sketches came from. My future bidding behavior would hinge on the explanation.

Exactly - that was why I asked yesterday what the seller's explanation was, but the answer posted here was definitely unsatisfactory (to me, anyway).

[BumChex]

Just to clarify - were these transactions refunded before the sketches in question even shipped?   Has anyone here actually received one of the altered sketches?

If this is in fact more than a single freak occurence, I can't see myself bidding on this seller's auctions in the future. 

I caught mine the next day. I'm not sure about the 2 shipped to Leslie. Marc just sent me a scan of about 7 questionable sketches he recently received. I know the 2 Engstroms he got are fake but will check with the other 2 artists tomorrow. I think he has a color Camera that i believe to be a fake.

[BumChex]

Exactly - that was why I asked yesterday what the seller's explanation was, but the answer posted here was definitely unsatisfactory (to me, anyway).

Sorry the answer was brief but that's about all I got. I sent a message to the seller that the sketch I just won is a fake and I wanted a refund. The response I received, within about an hour, was I'm sorry and I will send you a refund.
If someone questioned my sketch I would want proof because most of mine have come directly from Topps. I would also be getting a hold of the artist, if possible, and contact Topps before offering a refund. Why would I offer a refund without doing some research? Just because someone says it's a fake doesn't mean it is. Why did he also take down all of his other suspect auctions right after I sent the message? He probably didn't color them himself but I believe he knew what he was selling. Nuff Said!!! LOL

[BumChex]

Another motivation is the sketches that were altered generally wouldn't pull in much on EBay so how do you make more money? Alter them to make them a rare variation.

[RawGoo]

Sorry the answer was brief but that's about all I got. I sent a message to the seller that the sketch I just won is a fake and I wanted a refund. The response I received, within about an hour, was I'm sorry and I will send you a refund.
If someone questioned my sketch I would want proof because most of mine have come directly from Topps. I would also be getting a hold of the artist, if possible, and contact Topps before offering a refund. Why would I offer a refund without doing some research? Just because someone says it's a fake doesn't mean it is. Why did he also take down all of his other suspect auctions right after I sent the message? He probably didn't color them himself but I believe he knew what he was selling. Nuff Said!!! LOL

I would have expected some explanation from the seller about where they came from; taking down a number of other auctions right afterwards just makes this look even worse.  This seller is not a Wacky newbie.......

[Fanatical_and_Sickly]

It just isn't precise or descriptive to call it fake. The term fake would apply to a card that is not original...a reprint. "Altered" means a real card that has been worked on to change/improve its appearance. This would include trimming, color touching, etc. Always best to use the most descriptive, precise term.

totally agree as well.
we need to stop calling these fakes. they are no more fake than a checklist card that's been filled in with marker (and only worth about as much as one as well)
these sketches were altered and bastardized - for fun, out of anger, to intentionally deceive for profit, or as an attempt to destroy the sketch market. it will be interesting to find out the motivation.

[bandaches]

It would certainly behoove the seller to explain where the sketches came from. My future bidding behavior would hinge on the explanation.

Ya think???  Bet no explanation comes out....

[Gurgle]

This is also a fake Mark confirmed it:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_trksid=p4340.l2557&hash=item33762b4eae&item=221025881774&nma=true&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&rt=nc&si=%252F1v3c9P%252FKYlUnC11GV%252FsP2SmwrQ%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

Yeah that's my sketch but not my coloring. I just completed a batch of sketches and only scanned some. Now I see the need to have scans of all of them.

[bandaches]

totally agree as well.
we need to stop calling these fakes. they are no more fake than a checklist card that's been filled in with marker (and only worth about as much as one as well)
these sketches were altered and bastardized - for fun, out of anger, to intentionally deceive for profit, or as an attempt to destroy the sketch market. it will be interesting to find out the motivation.

good luck, I predict no explanation nor data will be presented to us....or if one is offered, it will lead to a blackhole of non verifiability.  If you actually believe matt will provide enough info so we can call out exactly from whom he got this windfall of sketches, I have some swamp land for sale for you.

[Rabid Shaver]

Did not realize there could be more of Mr. Z' Hurtz error cards....Marc still has the one from me....cards don't match (Whew!)
This could be a game changer...

Which sketch is that?

Thanks,
Marc

[BumChex]

Did not realize there could be more of Mr. Z' Hurtz error cards....Marc still has the one from me....cards don't match (Whew!)
This could be a game changer...

I pulled one from a box so he probably did about 10 of them or so. Just a hunch. If it was colored then I would be suspicious.

[Rabid Shaver]

Not gonna color mine...no...not gonna do it... (in my best Dana Carvey)

I pulled one from a box so he probably did about 10 of them or so. Just a hunch. If it was colored then I would be suspicious.

[MadMike]

good luck, I predict no explanation nor data will be presented to us....or if one is offered, it will lead to a blackhole of non verifiability.  If you actually believe matt will provide enough info so we can call out exactly from whom he got this windfall of sketches, I have some swamp land for sale for you.

While a seller may not want to name the person who provided them "color altered deceptive sketch cards" to sell, one would have to ask the question "Why not name the source of the counterfeit product to clear your own name?"

The bottom line is....No explanation is just plain SHADY and poor business practice.  I agree with the people that say they would not buy from this person ever again.  At best the seller has questionable ethics to not justify why he/she is selling misleading product.  This seller is also allowing the possibility for the dishonest creator of the sketches to continue to try to deceive.  How responsible is that?  Answer, NOT VERY.

One purpose of a forum of this nature is to out the cheats and expose the fakes.  You people do an outstanding job of pointing these things out and I thank you all for bringing this information to my attention.

[Paul_Maul]

While a seller may not want to name the person who provided them "color altered deceptive sketch cards" to sell, one would have to ask the question "Why not name the source of the counterfeit product to clear your own name?"

The bottom line is....No explanation is just plain SHADY and poor business practice.  I agree with the people that say they would not buy from this person ever again.  At best the seller has questionable ethics to not justify why he/she is selling misleading product.  This seller is also allowing the possibility for the dishonest creator of the sketches to continue to try to deceive.  How responsible is that?  Answer, NOT VERY.

One purpose of a forum of this nature is to out the cheats and expose the fakes.  You people do an outstanding job of pointing these things out and I thank you all for bringing this information to my attention.

The seller in question is generally not a consignment seller, so in this case an explanation of the circumstances is a reasonable expectation.

In the case of someone like Tedjeffrey (who had tons of fake packs consigned to him a few years ago, and yet refused to
disclose the identity of the consignor), consignment sellers see it as a breach of ethics to disclose the identity of the
consignor in most cases. In the event that there were an actual criminal investigation, I imagine such information might
become more readily available.

At the same time, a consignment seller had better be effective at policing the legitimacy of material consigned to him, or his reputation will deservedly suffer.

[bandaches]

The seller in question is generally not a consignment seller, so in this case an explanation of the circumstances is a reasonable expectation.

In the case of someone like Tedjeffrey (who had tons of fake packs consigned to him a few years ago, and yet refused to
disclose the identity of the consignor), consignment sellers see it as a breach of ethics to disclose the identity of the
consignor in most cases. In the event that there were an actual criminal investigation, I imagine such information might
become more readily available.

At the same time, a consignment seller had better be effective at policing the legitimacy of material consigned to him, or his reputation will deservedly suffer.

What explanation of circumstances have you heard?  So far, all I have heard is that matt denies altering the cards.  No other info has been released.  Please correct me...

[Paul_Maul]

What explanation of circumstances have you heard?  So far, all I have heard is that matt denies altering the cards.  No other info has been released.  Please correct me...

I haven't heard any explanation. I was just saying that it's reasonable to expect an explanation in this case, since Matt
(as far as I know) is not a consignment seller (except selling things for Greg sometimes). Whereas, if Tedjeffrey was
discovered selling these, he would likely say (as he did in the case of the re-sealed packs) "my consignor's privacy
is guaranteed."

My point is, a consignment seller can take this route, but it takes a toll on his credibility while giving the consignor a free
pass. In Matt's case, we don't even know if it was a consignment sale, so it surely requires an explanation. Absent
such an explanation, I would not fault anyone for assuming he is at least partially culpable.

[BumChex]

I haven't heard any explanation. I was just saying that it's reasonable to expect an explanation in this case, since Matt
(as far as I know) is not a consignment seller (except selling things for Greg sometimes). Whereas, if Tedjeffrey was
discovered selling these, he would likely say (as he did in the case of the re-sealed packs) "my consignor's privacy
is guaranteed."

My point is, a consignment seller can take this route, but it takes a toll on his credibility while giving the consignor a free
pass. In Matt's case, we don't even know if it was a consignment sale, so it surely requires an explanation. Absent
such an explanation, I would not fault anyone for assuming he is at least partially culpable.

Why don't you ask Matt where he got them? I'm sure he won't tell me or Ern but he might tell someone close to him.

[bandaches]

I haven't heard any explanation. I was just saying that it's reasonable to expect an explanation in this case, since Matt
(as far as I know) is not a consignment seller (except selling things for Greg sometimes). Whereas, if Tedjeffrey was
discovered selling these, he would likely say (as he did in the case of the re-sealed packs) "my consignor's privacy
is guaranteed."

My point is, a consignment seller can take this route, but it takes a toll on his credibility while giving the consignor a free
pass. In Matt's case, we don't even know if it was a consignment sale, so it surely requires an explanation. Absent
such an explanation, I would not fault anyone for assuming he is at least partially culpable.

Fair enough, well put!  ...and for the record, I very rarely consider buying anything at all from TedJeffrey.

[ratchet007]

I can't believe Matt ended up with all these "fake" sketches and didn't think to question their authenticity. If he bought these outright and is now trying to turn them for a profit, then he got hosed. If they are a consignment deal, someone should contact him so he can question the consignor.