Fake sketch - buyer beware

[BumChex]

I thought I was bidding on a really cool Engstrom sketch and when I won it I was ecstatic. I've never seen any other Engstroms that has the black background so I emailed Brent to see how rare this is. Brent said he didn't do any with black backgrounds and this is an obvious fake. He even pointed out that it wasn't colored in around the witches hair. The sell gave me a refund but watch out for some of these.
Here is the auction:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/221024198636?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649

Here are the 2 cards side by side.

[sco(o)t]

I thought I was bidding on a really cool Engstrom sketch and when I won it I was ecstatic. I've never seen any other Engstroms that has the black background so I emailed Brent to see how rare this is. Brent said he didn't do any with black backgrounds and this is an obvious fake. He even pointed out that it wasn't colored in around the witches hair. The sell gave me a refund but watch out for some of these.
Here is the auction:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/221024198636?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649

Here are the 2 cards side by side.

Brad, bummer on the sketch card... Glad you were refunded... What did the seller say when brought to their attention? It's interesting to note the bottom portion of the fake where the forger mistook where the body was and darkened the wrong section. Not to dwell on an unfortunate event, but could you tell the card was faked by the look or feel of the sketch back, card stock, etc? It's always been a thought in the back of my mind that with the quality of printers now, this could start becoming a more common occurrence in the collecting card world.

[Fanatical_and_Sickly]

was there even a physical card? or was this just a photoshop image listed in the auction?

[RawGoo]

was there even a physical card? or was this just a photoshop image listed in the auction?

If the card hadn't been altered in already, what was going to be shipped? 

[Dr Popper]

I thought I was bidding on a really cool Engstrom sketch and when I won it I was ecstatic. I've never seen any other Engstroms that has the black background so I emailed Brent to see how rare this is. Brent said he didn't do any with black backgrounds and this is an obvious fake. He even pointed out that it wasn't colored in around the witches hair. The sell gave me a refund but watch out for some of these.
Here is the auction:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/221024198636?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649

Here are the 2 cards side by side.

Fake Ludlows and now fake (or at least enhanced) sketch cards.  sigh........

[RawGoo]

Fake Ludlows and now fake (or at least enhanced) sketch cards.  sigh........

Don't forget the fake and resealed packs.

[bandaches]

Matt has been selling tons of sketches lately on ebay.  How did he come into so many?  Did he really buy that many boxes with the sketch market being so weak?  Did he offere details on where he got this one so we can track the source of the card?

Please elaborate on "fake".  Is this merely a regular sketch that was colored in or is whole card 100% fake?

[BumChex]

It is a real sketch card that was colored in. That makes it a fake. I contacted Brent to see how many he did with the black background and he said he didn't think he did any. He then sent me the scan of the actual card because he scans all of his sketches. It was so obvious after he pointed out the non colored spot. No idea where the card came from but it was altered.

[RawGoo]

It is a real sketch card that was colored in. That makes it a fake. I contacted Brent to see how many he did with the black background and he said he didn't think he did any. He then sent me the scan of the actual card because he scans all of his sketches. It was so obvious after he pointed out the non colored spot. No idea where the card came from but it was altered.

No idea where the altered sketch card came from???  Wouldn't it be in the seller's interest to explain?

[BumChex]

No idea where the altered sketch card came from???  Wouldn't it be in the seller's interest to explain?

The person denies any wrong doing. No idea.

[Jean Nutty]

It's interesting to note the bottom portion of the fake where the forger mistook where the body was and darkened the wrong section

I got a kick out of that too. Should we call it an error?

How dare they blot out the hairy warts!

[Paul_Maul]

I got a kick out of that too. Should we call it an error?

How dare they blot out the hairy warts!

Wow, I don't understand any of this. No clue why a "darkened" card would be perceived as more desirable. I'm glad I have nothing to do with this market.

[BumChex]

Wow, I don't understand any of this. No clue why a "darkened" card would be perceived as more desirable. I'm glad I have nothing to do with this market.

Because it was supposed to be a rare version of Engstrom sketches.

[bandaches]

The person denies any wrong doing. No idea.

LOL, too funny.  Let's see, what are the real possibilities here given that newly issued sketch cards like this one have not changed hands 5 or 6 times already....

1) Brent is wrong and he did do black background.
2) matt is altering sketches to increase their value for resale purposes.
3) Someone else altered the sketch possibly with the intent of hurting the sketch market in spite of topps and is fencing the sale of these through matt.
4) some mysterious original owner of this sketch altered it, never marketted it as such and hence made no profits from it, it somehow landed in matt's hands who is now selling it advertising its uniqueness.

Take your picks gang, which scenario is most likely.  I vote for #3.

[sco(o)t]

LOL, too funny.  Let's see, what are the real possibilities here given that newly issued sketch cards like this one have not changed hands 5 or 6 times already....

1) Brent is wrong and he did do black background.
2) matt is altering sketches to increase their value for resale purposes.
3) Someone else altered the sketch possibly with the intent of hurting the sketch market in spite of topps and is fencing the sale of these through matt.
4) some mysterious original owner of this sketch altered it, never marketted it as such and hence made no profits from it, it somehow landed in matt's hands who is now selling it advertising its uniqueness.

Take your picks gang, which scenario is most likely.  I vote for #3.

#1 seems unlikely given the mistake that was made in blackening out the torso. Doesn't seem like something Brent would be apt to do.

#4 also seems somewhat of a improbable scenario in that most would be unlikely to alter a sketch card, and if you were compelled to do so, would you sell it?

Regardless of who did it, it was defintely done to deceive.

[BumChex]

#1 seems unlikely given the mistake that was made in blackening out the torso. Doesn't seem like something Brent would be apt to do.

#4 also seems somewhat of a improbable scenario in that most would be unlikely to alter a sketch card, and if you were compelled to do so, would you sell it?

Regardless of who did it, it was defintely done to deceive.

Scot, not to be condicending but this was deliberate. You can only forgive so many people.

[sco(o)t]

Scot, not to be condicending but this was deliberate. You can only forgive so many people.

Not sure I understand your comment, but I think we are saying the same thing. Ernie listed some possibilities as how how this fake came into being... I was just stating that two of the scenarios seemed more unlikely and that it was certainly created to deceive. I am definitely not advocating forgiveness to the perp.

[RawGoo]

The person denies any wrong doing. No idea.

I wonder when it will pop up next.

[bandaches]

I wonder when it will pop up next.

I have grown tired of the "protecting people" crap in this hobby.  If a person is selling a deceiptful item, their two choices are to accept they will be perceived as purposely doing so or to disclose the history behind the item.  Refusal to provide history indicates high levels of guilt.  This same crap was taking place with fake ludlows.

[BumChex]

Not sure I understand your comment, but I think we are saying the same thing. Ernie listed some possibilities as how how this fake came into being... I was just stating that two of the scenarios seemed more unlikely and that it was certainly created to deceive. I am definitely not advocating forgiveness to the perp.

Sorry, I was reading your number 1 and 4 as making an argument for this to exist. I just reread it and you are right. I just found out this may have happened to another person. I'm waiting to see the scans.

[Kook]

Sorry, I was reading your number 1 and 4 as making an argument for this to exist. I just reread it and you are right. I just found out this may have happened to another person. I'm waiting to see the scans.

I saw a whole bunch of sketch listings cancelled with either highlighting or color. I wonder if these may have been enhanced/altered as well. If the backs were scanned, you could tell by the copyright, but only the fronts were in the auction.

Additionally, I would call them altered, and not fake. From what you've said, they are actual sketch cards, just altered. That would indicate there's not an endless supply, but you must beware of the ones you receive, and at the very least, check the copyright about coloring.

This would be a perfect use for the sketch book/magazine talked about before. If the sketches were catalogued (great additional product), the catalogue could be used to at least verify a sketch image as genuine in addition to its aesthetic appeal. It could be available online with watermarks, and a link could be written on the back of the card. Anyone with any doubt could simply logon and check the card they have.

[BumChex]

I saw a whole bunch of sketch listings cancelled with either highlighting or color. I wonder if these may have been enhanced/altered as well. If the backs were scanned, you could tell by the copyright, but only the fronts were in the auction.

Additionally, I would call them altered, and not fake. From what you've said, they are actual sketch cards, just altered. That would indicate there's not an endless supply, but you must beware of the ones you receive, and at the very least, check the copyright about coloring.

This would be a perfect use for the sketch book/magazine talked about before. If the sketches were catalogued (great additional product), the catalogue could be used to at least verify a sketch image as genuine in addition to its aesthetic appeal. It could be available online with watermarks, and a link could be written on the back of the card. Anyone with any doubt could simply logon and check the card they have.

I noticed some were pulled also. There is nothing on the back of my color sketches to indicate they should be color. They are altered by a 3rd person and not the original artist so I would consider those to be fraud/fake.

[Porkie]

This would be a perfect use for the sketch book/magazine talked about before. If the sketches were catalogued (great additional product), the catalogue could be used to at least verify a sketch image as genuine in addition to its aesthetic appeal. It could be available online with watermarks, and a link could be written on the back of the card. Anyone with any doubt could simply logon and check the card they have.

I emailed Topps asking if they cataloged the last Postcard series sketches, since I have a color that the artist did on a card with the b&w caption (and vice versa! I have a b&w on a color caption).

Seems really easy to do -- just take a scan of them when numbering.

Never heard back from them...

[BumChex]

I emailed Topps asking if they cataloged the last Postcard series sketches, since I have a color that the artist did on a card with the b&w caption (and vice versa! I have a b&w on a color caption).

Seems really easy to do -- just take a scan of them when numbering.

Never heard back from them...

Where are you guys seeing this caption about color cards on OLDS3 sketches? I've looked don't see anything.

[Hustler08]

Where are you guys seeing this caption about color cards on OLDS3 sketches? I've looked don't see anything.

Those only showed on the PCS8 sketches on the back...pretty sure OLDs3 sketches didn't have it...

You are right...if someone alters the cards in any way from their original form and tries to sell them then they s/b deemed FAKE...in the sense that it was altered from the original ..."FAKE" makes it more "real" - brings it to people's attention more!!

[Paul_Maul]

You are right...if someone alters the cards in any way from their original form and tries to sell them then they s/b deemed FAKE...in the sense that it was altered from the original ..."FAKE" makes it more "real" - brings it to people's attention more!!

It just isn't precise or descriptive to call it fake. The term fake would apply to a card that is not original...a reprint. "Altered" means a real card that has been worked on to change/improve its appearance. This would include trimming, color touching, etc. Always best to use the most descriptive, precise term.

[jaylynch]

Here someone started to try to intensify the value of one of my drawings by coloring it with his crayons set.  http://www.ebay.com/itm/Wacky-Packages-Lost-Series-8-1-2x11-original-art-sketch-by-Jay-Lynch-Tushie-Roll-/280886846973?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item41662925fd

[Dr Popper]

Where are you guys seeing this caption about color cards on OLDS3 sketches? I've looked don't see anything.

Unfortunately there is no way to tell a color or b&w from any of the non-sketch portion of the Olds 3 sketch cards.  There is a difference with the series 8 postcard sketches but apparently not all of the artists followed it so it leaves room for the same problem of doctoring. 

[Rabid Shaver]

Not to throw Marc under the bus, but he may know the source of Matt's cards....I just won back a card I sold to him weeks
ago...seems fine.....Think Topps was a lot smarter when they ran OS2 colored cards upside down and in a different shade  

LOL, too funny.  Let's see, what are the real possibilities here given that newly issued sketch cards like this one have not changed hands 5 or 6 times already....

1) Brent is wrong and he did do black background.
2) matt is altering sketches to increase their value for resale purposes.
3) Someone else altered the sketch possibly with the intent of hurting the sketch market in spite of topps and is fencing the sale of these through matt.
4) some mysterious original owner of this sketch altered it, never marketted it as such and hence made no profits from it, it somehow landed in matt's hands who is now selling it advertising its uniqueness.

Take your picks gang, which scenario is most likely.  I vote for #3.

[bandaches]

It just isn't precise or descriptive to call it fake. The term fake would apply to a card that is not original...a reprint. "Altered" means a real card that has been worked on to change/improve its appearance. This would include trimming, color touching, etc. Always best to use the most descriptive, precise term.

TOTALLY agree, I think the word fake created all sorts of concerns about cards being printed from home ie increasing sketch counts when "altered" or "enhanced" much more accurately describe the crime here.  Make no mistake about it, this is a crime.

[bandaches]

Not to throw Marc under the bus, but he may know the source of Matt's cards....I just won back a card I sold to him weeks
ago...seems fine.....Think Topps was a lot smarter when they ran OS2 colored cards upside down and in a different shade  

Just to clarify, you won back from matt a card you sold to Marc weeks ago?

[Rabid Shaver]

Yes, that is correct...card is not an issue, however....but may clear up consignment...

Just to clarify, you won back from matt a card you sold to Marc weeks ago?

[Rabid Shaver]

However....if Marc still has the card.....bad feeling in my stomach now......

Yes, that is correct...card is not an issue, however....but may clear up consignment...

[BumChex]

Brent messaged me back and said all of his color sketches are on his blog.
http://monkeyboycomic.blogspot.com/

If you do a search for color sketches or color completed sketches on ebay and they don't match his scans they are fake. There are at least 2 fakes that are under completed.

[quas]

However....if Marc still has the card.....bad feeling in my stomach now......

Which sketch is that?

Thanks,
Marc