So What Will This Go For?

[bandaches]

These hardly bother me at all too. They almost appear like marks from the pressure of making the actual diecut. Border creases, however, bother me a lot on the diecut & wacky ad series.

...so you would all not choose a diecut without this pinch crease over one with a pinch crease....i doubt it....

[Porkie]

I got a pinch crease the other day after eating too much cheese. 

[Kook]

...so you would all not choose a diecut without this pinch crease over one with a pinch crease....i doubt it....

I never said that if I had 2 diecuts, all else being equal, I would choose the one with the crease. I just said it doesn't bother me near as much as other flaws common to diecuts. Of course if there were 2 diecuts in comparable condition I'd pick the one without the crease. I wouldn't pay a premium for one without the crease over one with it, all else being equal.

[bandaches]

I never said that if I had 2 diecuts, all else being equal, I would choose the one with the crease. I just said it doesn't bother me near as much as other flaws common to diecuts. Of course if there were 2 diecuts in comparable condition I'd pick the one without the crease. I wouldn't pay a premium for one without the crease over one with it, all else being equal.

You basically just said you would prefer the one without the crease but wouldn't pay a premium for your preferred item.  I think you are in the minority as I feel most people would pay even a small premium for preferred items. 

Regardless, I never said anything about value, I simply pointed out this marvelous PSA9 speciman has a crease on the back so it is ridiculous to grade it anywhere near PSA9.  At a minimum, if the crease pinch is a factory defect, it should be a qualifier much like centering and gum stains are qualifiers for PSA.  Bottom line is that if there is difference between two cards that can be seen without a magnifying glass, it seems it should impact the grade more than spotting a flaw that does require special detecting devices.  This all shows what a crock of nonsense the whole grading process is and how random the criteria is for people who sorta kinda seek perfection and high grade cards.

[Paul_Maul]

I still don't think this is as serious a defect as you suggest, but either way it's another example of PSA being unable to call out wacky-specific issues. This kind of thing is really only seen on wacky die cuts, much like off-center die punches. You would really need a wacky-specific grading company to expect any kind of real consistency on wacky-specific issues like these.

[bandaches]

I still don't think this is as serious a defect as you suggest, but either way it's another example of PSA being unable to call out wacky-specific issues. This kind of thing is really only seen on wacky die cuts, much like off-center die punches. You would really need a wacky-specific grading company to expect any kind of real consistency on wacky-specific issues like these.

I agree with you to some degree but why would it take wacky pack knowledge to see a physical crease or see diecutting around an image that is misaligned?  Diecuts on trading cards is a pretty generic functional attribute much like the black border of an image.

I say it is a big deal because the tiniest hint of corner softness drops a card 2 at least two PSA grades....this grading process is a fabricated market that really lacks solid guidelines and worse yet, within the soft guidelines that do exist, it seems to lack thorough discipline. 

[Kook]

I still don't think this is as serious a defect as you suggest, but either way it's another example of PSA being unable to call out wacky-specific issues. This kind of thing is really only seen on wacky die cuts, much like off-center die punches. You would really need a wacky-specific grading company to expect any kind of real consistency on wacky-specific issues like these.

I think PSA should have a scoresheet for each grade tied to the serial number of the card & available on the web something like this:
TL Corner: (1 to 10 grade)
TR Corner:
BL Corner:
BR Corner:
Centering: xx% top/bottom
Centering: xx% left/right
Gloss:
Coloring/Eye appeal: (1 to 10 grade)
Left Edge: (1 to 10 grade)
Right Edge:
Top Edge:
Bottom Edge:
Clean Back:
Kinks: (1 to 10 grade)
Orientation:  (sometimes the card is cut a bit off lever. The card is square, but the wacky is tilted)
Diamond cut/cut out of square: 


For centering over xx%, qualifier OC, for centering over the border MC
For gum stains: GS
For other stains or marks, ST or MK
They should also note if the stain is on the front or back. Sometimes a stain on the front can be removed, or a stain on the back may not bother someone, but you can't even see it in the holder.

And give each item a grade on 1 to 10 & weighted average score of overall importance.
This way, people could buy a card with the qualities most important to them, and you'd know how they came up with the grade. Does PSA have any interest in keeping their grading criteria a secret?

[Paul_Maul]

PSA publishes their grading standards, they are just no where near as precise as you would like:

http://www.psacard.com/services/psa_grading_standards.chtml

One of the other grading companies did provide a breakdown of corners, centering, maybe a couple other attributes.
I think it was SGC.

[Kook]

PSA publishes their grading standards, they are just no where near as precise as you would like:

http://www.psacard.com/services/psa_grading_standards.chtml

One of the other grading companies did provide a breakdown of corners, centering, maybe a couple other attributes.
I think it was SGC.

I have seen these before & find them to be vague with a lot of wiggle room. Much more "art" than science. They also mention 8s can have slightly white borders, yet I've seen psa8s from the 4th, 5th & 6th series with extremely ugly spotting & discoloration (the non-glossys). These guidelines may refer or apply more to sports cards. Either way, they are inconsistent with their wacky grading policies & procedures IMO.

[quas]

Only 6 hours to go, so you all had better hurry if you want to place your bid - for $13,000!!  Plus buyer's premium of course.

It must be Eric and whoever "bidder #2" is.

[BumChex]

I hit the next button and found the Cracked Animals. Why isn't this going any higher? It says die-cut/trimmed. I wonder what that means? Was the card trimmed so PSA wouldn't grade it?
http://www.legendaryauctions.com/LotDetail.aspx?lotid=129608&searchby=3&searchvalue=ratz&&auctionid=78&page=0&sortby=0&displayby=2&lotsperpage=100&category=1

[Joe G.]

Brad, I took trimmed to mean that the card was trimmed (cut down) after it was released by Topps.  It's a way to give a card ultra sharp corners but of course it's now restored or altered.  To many collectors it destroys the value.

[BumChex]

Brad, I took trimmed to mean that the card was trimmed (cut down) after it was released by Topps.  It's a way to give a card ultra sharp corners but of course it's now restored or altered.  To many collectors it destroys the value.

PSA won't grade suspicious cards such as signs of trimming. I didn't know they would grade them as authentic though. A person could get this card fairly cheap, crack the case and sell it on eBay for about $2500. I'm sure it could come back to them that the card has been trimmed if the buyer ever sent it in for grading.

[Crazy Zoo Keeper]

I hit the next button and found the Cracked Animals. Why isn't this going any higher? It says die-cut/trimmed. I wonder what that means? Was the card trimmed so PSA wouldn't grade it?
http://www.legendaryauctions.com/LotDetail.aspx?lotid=129608&searchby=3&searchvalue=ratz&&auctionid=78&page=0&sortby=0&displayby=2&lotsperpage=100&category=1

Most likely, both the Ratz and the Cracked Animals were cut from a proof sheet lacking the black plate.  The boneheads at PSA noticed the Cracked Animals was not factory cut, but missed the same flaw on the Ratz.  Unbelievable what a difference the holder makes.

Edit: Yup . . . just went back and checked . . . their holders are consecutively numbered.  Submitted together at the same time.  Not sure how PSA screwed up on not detecting that the Ratz was not factory cut, as well.

[Joe G.]

That sounds correct.  I suspect the Cracked Animals may be slightly off size so the fact it was not factory cut was more evident.

[Fanatical_and_Sickly]

Most likely, both the Ratz and the Cracked Animals were cut from a proof sheet lacking the black plate.  The boneheads at PSA noticed the Cracked Animals was not factory cut, but missed the same flaw on the Ratz.  Unbelievable what a difference the holder makes.

Edit: Yup . . . just went back and checked . . . their holders are consecutively numbered.  Submitted together at the same time.  Not sure how PSA screwed up on not detecting that the Ratz was not factory cut, as well.

yep, Cracked is about a 1/10th inch too short. at least psa noticed that.

ugh, that writeup on the auction site makes me want to retch. 'comfortably validates the cards genuineness'?  

[Kook]

Most likely, both the Ratz and the Cracked Animals were cut from a proof sheet lacking the black plate.  The boneheads at PSA noticed the Cracked Animals was not factory cut, but missed the same flaw on the Ratz.  Unbelievable what a difference the holder makes.

Edit: Yup . . . just went back and checked . . . their holders are consecutively numbered.  Submitted together at the same time.  Not sure how PSA screwed up on not detecting that the Ratz was not factory cut, as well.

Does the cracked animals appear to be missing the black printing plate too? It looks pretty good to me. It could be possible that someone submitted their collection for grading at the same time, but not all cut from the same sheet. What do you think?

$400 is a great price. I just sold my extra punched cracked animals at auction on ebay and it went to $455.

[Crazy Zoo Keeper]

Does the cracked animals appear to be missing the black printing plate too? It looks pretty good to me. It could be possible that someone submitted their collection for grading at the same time, but not all cut from the same sheet. What do you think?

$400 is a great price. I just sold my extra punched cracked animals at auction on ebay and it went to $455.

Yeah, just like the Ratz, it is very bright, has the same out of register yellow and red without the cover of black masking and features very distinct blue die cut lines.  I agree, the price is great and this still warrants at least twice the current price.

[BumChex]

What did they sell for? I just looked and it doesn't show.

[Crazy Zoo Keeper]

What did they sell for? I just looked and it doesn't show.

Ratz = 13k + 19.5% Buyers Premium
CA = 475 + 19.5% BP

[BumChex]

Ratz = 13k + 19.5% Buyers Premium
CA = 475 + 19.5% BP

Thanks!
That Cracked Animals will show up again on eBay. I should have bought it. It will sell for $2500-$4000. Some people don't collect to get them graded so this will end up in someone's collection never knowing the wiser. Then they will decide to sell it and it could be one of us forking out the cash to find that it is in fact trimmed. We think we have a treasure. Sad....
Even if it was trimmed I still am pissed I didn't bid because this would have been a hell of a placeholder. A very nice example.

[Joe G.]

Brad, I agree with Kook's punched one selling at a similar price the Cracked Animals was a steal.  On the other hand the Ratz seems like it cost a fortune to me. 

[Dr Popper]

Thanks!
That Cracked Animals will show up again on eBay. I should have bought it. It will sell for $2500-$4000. Some people don't collect to get them graded so this will end up in someone's collection never knowing the wiser. Then they will decide to sell it and it could be one of us forking out the cash to find that it is in fact trimmed. We think we have a treasure. Sad....

If you look at a normal Cracked Animals and compare the space around the borders you can tell it's been trimmed, so it's more than just a sliver shaved off.  It's pretty short on both sides.  If you put it in a recessed screwdown it would have quite a bit of room to move around.           

[Porkie]

$13K for that Ratz?!? Wow. Someone spent a lot of money for such an iffy card. And if someone has a sheet (or more) of these, they are probably salivating.

Interesting to me that they didn't go the eBay route. Probably afraid of too many Wacky eyes who would question the authenticity.

Seems like something should be done for this kind of thing, but no idea what or how...

[Kook]

Brad, I agree with Kook's punched one selling at a similar price the Cracked Animals was a steal.  On the other hand the Ratz seems like it cost a fortune to me.  

I agree the cracked animals was a steal. I just sold my punched cracked animals with a cracked jerk border in a screw down about a week ago. I finally purchased an unpunched one, so I sold off my placeholder. I got $455 for it on ebay. Even trimmed, this is an awesome placeholder at a DIRT CHEAP price. For many, it would definitely suffice as the keeper. It is true the PSA holder was a liability on this auction & it will probably find its way to ebay and sell for north of $2,000. Maybe much more because outside of the trimming issue, this looks like a really nice card. I would be pissed if I purchased a cracked animals for $2k+ & sent it in for grading & it got kicked back. I'll have to keep my fingers crossed that the one I just bought has no issues that will arise upon grading.

[Kook]

If you look at a normal Cracked Animals and compare the space around the borders you can tell it's been trimmed, so it's more than just a sliver shaved off.  It's pretty short on both sides.  If you put it in a recessed screwdown it would have quite a bit of room to move around.           

Is the cracked animals on an edge of the diecut sheet? I can't imagine anyone screwing up the cuttingof the sheet knowing the value of these cards. I can only think the sheet had been trimmed originally, and then the cracked was cut out of the sheet.

[BumChex]

I agree the cracked animals was a steal. I just sold my punched cracked animals with a cracked jerk border in a screw down about a week ago. I finally purchased an unpunched one, so I sold off my placeholder. I got $455 for it on ebay. Even trimmed, this is an awesome placeholder at a DIRT CHEAP price. For many, it would definitely suffice as the keeper. It is true the PSA holder was a liability on this auction & it will probably find its way to ebay and sell for north of $2,000. Maybe much more because outside of the trimming issue, this looks like a really nice card. I would be pissed if I purchased a cracked animals for $2k+ & sent it in for grading & it got kicked back. I'll have to keep my fingers crossed that the one I just bought has no issues that will arise upon grading.

I think anyone with one of these cards would be crazy not to get it graded. At least you would have peace of mind knowing it wasn't trimmed even if the grade comes back low. You also have a nice holder for the card

[Dr Popper]

Is the cracked animals on an edge of the diecut sheet? I can't imagine anyone screwing up the cuttingof the sheet knowing the value of these cards. I can only think the sheet had been trimmed originally, and then the cracked was cut out of the sheet.

I could be wrong but my assumption was that it was a single card and was trimmed down to yield sharp corners.

[Fanatical_and_Sickly]

I could be wrong but my assumption was that it was a single card and was trimmed down to yield sharp corners.

The going theory is that a sheet was cut up to yield cards. The fresh cuts give the ratz and cracked pristine edges as well as corners. But while the ratz was cut to a perfect 2.5 x 3.5, the cracked wasn't and ended up 2.5 x 3.4 (and skewed at that)

[Kook]

I could be wrong but my assumption was that it was a single card and was trimmed down to yield sharp corners.

Based on whether the cracked animals is also missing the black plate printing, I would think it was cut from a proof sheet like most were speculating about the Ratz. If it doesn't have that printing issue, I would then think it was trimmed for sharp corners. What's your opinion on the printing of the cracked animals?

[Porkie]

I am definitely not a Wacky expert, but I would consider myself relatively well-informed on them.

To me $500 for that Ratz was too steep with its poor color and questionable authenticity -- meaning if someone came up and said: "would you buy this for $600?" I would have said no thanks.

I simply cannot fathom that someone shelled out $13,000 for it. I just don't get it.

[BumChex]

I am definitely not a Wacky expert, but I would consider myself relatively well-informed on them.

To me $500 for that Ratz was too steep with its poor color and questionable authenticity -- meaning if someone came up and said: "would you buy this for $600?" I would have said no thanks.

I simply cannot fathom that someone shelled out $13,000 for it. I just don't get it.

A picture can always be suspect. I just got in the Gaggin'strips art and it is more amazing than the picture. The gold frame just makes it shine. It's perfect! I also got in the Blog art and need to get it framed along with 3 other pieces of art. Art always amazes me when it arrives. It's so much more incredible than any scan can produce. It's night and day. Although I really wanted the tooth art and thought it would go quit high so I didn't put in a snipe. I also wanted the Strokes art but ironically I thought the Tooth would sell much higher than than Strokes because I could see a lot of pasted letters with the strokes art. I then talked myself out of buying either when the tooth sold for under $900 while strokes sold for almost double. I would have never thunk it. Art is always amazing. If you call your self a wacky collector but haven't bought any art you are missing out. Some can say that it's too expensive but look at what some of the sketches have sold for? You will be blown away. The colors just pop!

[Porkie]

A picture can always be suspect. I just got in the Gaggin'strips art and it is more amazing than the picture. The gold frame just makes it shine. It's perfect! I also got in the Blog art and need to get it framed along with 3 other pieces of art. Art always amazes me when it arrives. It's so much more incredible than any scan can produce. It's night and day. Although I really wanted the tooth art and thought it would go quit high so I didn't put in a snipe. I also wanted the Strokes art but ironically I thought the Tooth would sell much higher than than Strokes because I could see a lot of pasted letters with the strokes art. I then talked myself out of buying either when the tooth sold for under $900 while strokes sold for almost double. I would have never thunk it. Art is always amazing. If you call your self a wacky collector but haven't bought any art you are missing out. Some can say that it's too expensive but look at what some of the sketches have sold for? You will be blown away. The colors just pop!

I definitely agree the art can be worth that kind of price tag. But an iffy card? That just seems insane to me.

[Dr Popper]

What's your opinion on the printing of the cracked animals?

Without having the card in hand and looking at it with magnification I'm not convinced that the black plate was completely missing from the Ratz, but now that I put the Cracked side by side with the Ratz they definitely belong in the same family so the sheet theory makes more sense than a cut card. 

[Kook]

Without having the card in hand and looking at it with magnification I'm not convinced that the black plate was completely missing from the Ratz, but now that I put the Cracked side by side with the Ratz they definitely belong in the same family so the sheet theory makes more sense than a cut card. 

I just checked for a diecut proof sheet on Greg's site:

http://wackypacks.com/sheets/die-cut_proof.html

It appears cracked animals is more in the middle than on an edge of the sheet. I would think there may have been some damage or fold to the sheet the cracked animals was cut from to get a trimmed designation. I would still believe it would be hard to screw up the cutting in this day & age & considering the owner knew what he had.