Wacky Packages Tees

[messngretz]

Hey all, I make custom-made Wacky tees. I can make any Wacky Pack from both original and new series. Let me know if you are interested.

Here's a sample of one:


Thanks

[Kook-Aid]

How much for a Schmutz on a Mens Large tan shirt??

[quas]

Can you do a tee-shirt with one Wacky image on the front and a different one on the back?

[bandaches]

Hey all, I ask $14.99 for each tee plus $5.95 for shipping. Right now I only stock white tees but I can also do them on light color tees, such as light gray and tan. I'd just have to order the other colors.

I just did a Liptorn tee for someone, they love it. Attached are a few other samples:

what are you using as the source for the images?  Is the quality of the image top notch and how do these handle washing machine washings?

[slamjim]

Are these licensed shirts or bootleg? 10Again Clothing is the official license for Topps shirts as far as I was aware.

[BumChex]

Are these licensed shirts or bootleg? 10Again Clothing is the official license for Topps shirts as far as I was aware.

Speaking of 10 again, he hasn't updated his website in quite a while. I spoke with him in December and he said he a a lot of new stuff to put up after the new year. I wonder what's happened?

[slamjim]

I saw a ton of new shirts from them at Topps a month or so ago.

[messngretz]

Can you do a tee-shirt with one Wacky image on the front and a different one on the back?

Yes, I can do both front and back...

[messngretz]

what are you using as the source for the images?  Is the quality of the image top notch and how do these handle washing machine washings?

I have scans of all of the wackys as the source. The quality is very good, they are all edited prior to printing to clear up any blemishes, and a slight drop shadow is added to the image. They hold up well in washing machines...

Thanks

[messngretz]

Are these licensed shirts or bootleg? 10Again Clothing is the official license for Topps shirts as far as I was aware.

No, these are custom-made by myself...

[slamjim]

No, these are custom-made by myself...

Right, so you are aware that that is illegal?

[messngretz]

Right, so you are aware that that is illegal?

yeah, I understand about the legality of it...I make them for people here and there simply due to to the fact that nobody has made enough to satisfy Wacky fans...obviously you have a problem with it, yes?

[Crakola Crayons]

I have scans of all of the wackys as the source. The quality is very good, they are all edited prior to printing to clear up any blemishes, and a slight drop shadow is added to the image.

Drop shadows?  Who else do we know that added drop shadows to his images of his Wacky scans?  Oh, yeah...Greg.  Hope you didn't take these images from Greg's site.

Actually, it looks like you totally cut out Topps copyright (based on what I can see of the images posted of the shirts).  Looks like you dropped the borders entirely too before adding your drop shadows (though, again, can't tell from the tiny images posted).

[wackyman]

wow... just wow

[slamjim]

yeah, I understand about the legality of it...I make them for people here and there simply due to to the fact that nobody has made enough to satisfy Wacky fans...obviously you have a problem with it, yes?

Well, it would not be just me. There are a number of people here who have been discussing this very issue. Just wait until 'the gum' (Plan9) hears this one. I guess you have not been reading the other threads on this forums. Big debate about this stuff on a couple of them.

Anyway, if you know the legality of it you also know that thinking you have a righteous reason is still the wrong reason. Another company that does have the rights to make the shirts is paying good money to do it the legal way. They may be slower at getting the images but that may be because they are only allowed certain images to use and that could be due to a variety of reasons which is between them and Topps. You putting any image on a shirt which will be worn in public makes it look like a legal shirt and an approved shirt by Topps. This could have repercussions for everyone here in that if a company you put on the shirt finds out they can go to Topps and cause problems. Those problems could be a lawsuit or maybe a cease and desist which could mean that Topps has less products to parody in future series. That sucks for all of us. I know for a fact that Topps has a number of agreements with some companies that they won't go beyond stickers when marketing their parody of that company's product.

[messngretz]

Just giving people the ability to put their favorite wackies on a tshirt since nobody else does so... if you guys have a big problem with it, then not a problem, I won't bother posting on the board about them. It's not like I sell hundreds of them, I've done a couple for some people.

[wackyman]

Well, it would not be just me. There are a number of people here who have been discussing this very issue. Just wait until 'the gum' (Plan9) hears this one. I guess you have not been reading the other threads on this forums. Big debate about this stuff on a couple of them.

Anyway, if you know the legality of it you also know that thinking you have a righteous reason is still the wrong reason. Another company that does have the rights to make the shirts is paying good money to do it the legal way. They may be slower at getting the images but that may be because they are only allowed certain images to use and that could be due to a variety of reasons which is between them and Topps. You putting any image on a shirt which will be worn in public makes it look like a legal shirt and an approved shirt by Topps. This could have repercussions for everyone here in that if a company you put on the shirt finds out they can go to Topps and cause problems. Those problems could be a lawsuit or maybe a cease and desist which could mean that Topps has less products to parody in future series. That sucks for all of us. I know for a fact that Topps has a number of agreements with some companies that they won't go beyond stickers when marketing their parody of that company's product.

There is one huge difference between what I think you are referring to and what this thread is about,  the other topic was simply displaying images not for profit  where this topic is exactly 100% against the law and the OP knows and admitted it.

*edit* I'm  holding my tongue on the other three paragraphs I wrote and erased for now but it's saved to a text  file

-Jay-

[messngretz]

Sorry if I've offended or pissed anyone off, that wasn't my purpose...nor am I being defiant here. I just wanted to throw it out to everyone if they are looking for anything specific.

I won't post anything else about tees. Again my apologies if it has bothered any of you guys.

[wackyman]

Sorry if I've offended or pissed anyone off, that wasn't my purpose...nor am I being defiant here. I just wanted to throw it out to everyone if they are looking for anything specific.

I won't post anything else about tees. Again my apologies if it has bothered any of you guys.

You are being 100% defiant of the law, it is against the law to reproduce copyrighted images and sell them.

When asked if you KNEW it was against the law you flat out said YES (But you don't sell many of them) meaning it's okay to break the law 'a little'

-Jay-

[messngretz]

You are being 100% defiant of the law, it is against the law to reproduce copyrighted images and sell them.

When asked if you KNEW it was against the law you flat out said YES (But you don't sell many of them) meaning it's okay to break the law 'a little'

-Jay-

Did I ever say I was selling them all on a regular basis? No I didn't not. All I did was post them as a sample, plain and simple. I'd barely make anything on them, the price of the shirts and transfers is what a person would be paying for.

Not worth the trouble explaining it any further...like I've already stated, sorry if it bothers you so much.

[wackyman]

Did I ever say I was selling them all on a regular basis? No I didn't not. All I did was post them as a sample, plain and simple. I'd barely make anything on them, the price of the shirts and transfers is what a person would be paying for.

Not worth the trouble explaining it any further...like I've already stated, sorry if it bothers you so much.

Makes no difference if you sell one or one million,  if you make 1 dollar profit or 10 dollars profit per shirt, it's against the law and you've admitted you knew that.

What you might not know or understand is WHO is on this board, people who crated those images your stealing and selling just for an example
wonder what they would think of you selling just a few of their hard work

-Jay-

[messngretz]

Makes no difference if you sell one or one million,  if you make 1 dollar profit or 10 dollars profit per shirt, it's against the law and you've admitted you knew that.

What you might not know or understand is WHO is on this board, people who crated those images your stealing and selling just for an example
wonder what they would think of you selling just a few of their hard work

-Jay-

You are right...like I said, I apologize if I've bothered or hurt anyone. I'm a big fan of wackies and used to wear wacky shirts as a kid, frustrating not being able to find many of them around.

Whoever runs the boards, just remove this post so it doesn't cause anyone any more anger.

[wackyman]

You are right...like I said, I apologize if I've bothered or hurt anyone. I'm a big fan of wackies and used to wear wacky shirts as a kid, frustrating not being able to find many of them around.

Whoever runs the boards, just remove this post so it doesn't cause anyone any more anger.

a few things,  

(1) you were already told of one place: http://10againclothing.com/  they sell OFFICIAL WP clothing, your knockoffs are close to half the price, and you have examples of the same images they sell, IF you really were doing this due to a lack of product why have the same stuff that's already officially for sale.

(2) Saying "I'm sorry" doesn't change the fact that myself, some of the artists, and anyone else who has read your thread KNOW your openly breaking the law and selling these shirts

(3) Your photo names have the word Ebay on them, so your claim of "making shirts for people who want them" is not 100% honest now is it? or do you make the shirts and then sell them on Ebay... why else would you have the Ebay name on the images.

(4) Having this thread deleted does not change the fact that you are selling pirated stuff, and you show no regard in what your doing, you've justified yourself here by saying 'there's not enough out there' and 'I don't sell allot of them'  that shows point blank that you don't care one bit that what your doing is against the law.

I'm more then a little angry that more people are not stepping up on this thread more, but at the same time it really speaks true volumes :(

-Jay-

[Crakola Crayons]

Jay, I'm willing to step up and say I don't support people making bootleg products.  As Dave pointed out quite well, this guy sellings unlicensed products can jeopardize not only licensed merchandise but also the very Wacky Packages parodies produced by Topps that we all love.

[Gurgle]

I'm more then a little angry that more people are not stepping up on this thread more, but at the same time it really speaks true volumes :(

Jay, what speaks "true volumes" about the other forum members? This guy has been called out. What he's doing is blatantly illegal and we can all see he's crawling away with his tail between his legs. You seem upset more people aren't piling on and, to you, this speaks "true volumes" about us. He has apologized. Whether his apology will change his actions is not clear, but once someone apologizes it's not unusual for people to back off.

I think this is a good lesson. If someone does something unethical or wrong, then apologizes, people have a tendency to back off. If there is no apology or admission of wrongdoing, people will probably continue to confront the person and the controversy will continue.

[wackyman]

Jay, what speaks "true volumes" about the other forum members? This guy has been called out. What he's doing is blatantly illegal and we can all see he's crawling away with his tail between his legs. You seem upset more people aren't piling on and, to you, this speaks "true volumes" about us. He has apologized. Whether his apology will change his actions is not clear, but once someone apologizes it's not unusual for people to back off.

I think this is a good lesson. If someone does something unethical or wrong, then apologizes, people have a tendency to back off. If there is no apology or admission of wrongdoing, people will probably continue to confront the person and the controversy will continue.

What speaks volumes is a little thing called "double standards"  I was picked apart and downright attacked for simply using someone else's images on a not for profit level,  those SAME PEOPLE were all over this thread and yet MOST of them SAID NOTHING (you can see who is viewing threads by looking at the top)

The people who DID speak in this thread FIRST actually wanted to buy the bootlegs, "How much"  "can you make this one"  & "can you make one with two diff wackys"

It's a well known fact who is allowed and who is not allowed to sell WP stuff, but from what I see it's only wrong to post images for free, but it's ok to sell them :(

Saying sorry does not mean that person will STOP selling the shirts, right now there are 14 WP shirts on Ebay
http://shop.ebay.com/?_from=R40&_trksid=p3907.m38.l1313&_nkw=wacky+packages+shirts&_sacat=See-All-Categories

Are any of them his/hers ? his images (that are now gone from this thread ALL said "card name-ebay-image" meaning he either HAS sold via ebay, is selling on ebay now OR about to sell on Ebay.

when it comes to out right breaking the law "sorry" does not mean jack shit

If Topps decided to take him to court with his admission he KNEW it was against the law to sell the shirts, do you really think "Sorry" will make the charges drop?

I'm more then livid on this matter,  there was an outright witch hunt on me (still is in a round about way) because I simply posted images for free, but selling images, that's ok?

I think my time here might just be about over :(

-Jay-

[wackyman]

This shirt for example: http://cgi.ebay.com/WACKY-PACKAGES-rare-t-shirt-Kelloggs-Frosted-Flakes_W0QQitemZ380218084041QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item5886c38ac9

with this image:


no topps copyright on this and it follows what this poster said he could to (tan or grey shirt)  tag is removed (prolly as it was some store bought plain shirt he put a transfer on)

I don't know if that is him/her or not, but look at the other & prior auctions, there quite a bit of 'questionable' shirts there.

-Jay-

[wackyman]

After doing a bit of digging I can say clearly that this person is "Rangerjoe" from Greg's board and he even showed off his home made shirts in this thread http://www.wackypackages.org/wackyforum/getmessage.php?mn=1&t=3603&mode=u&a=1&stealth=

in case you don't want to go there and look for his posts here they are:

From:   rangerjoe
To:   ronofthedead 
   Posted: Tuesday 1:23 pm, March 9, 2010   message 3603.14 in reply to 3603.10
Yeah it's pretty cool. I make wacky tees too, check out attached as an example...

http://www.wackypackages.org/wackyforum/users/rangerjoe/uploads/COMMIE-ebay-shirt.jpg

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From:   rangerjoe
To:   ronofthedead 
   Posted: Friday 10:09 am, March 26, 2010   message 3603.16 in reply to 3603.15
I can make any wacky you'd guys like on the tee...let me know if you'd like to see a sample of the ones you choose.

Thanks


Note that that image was the exact same one he posted here,  he actually just hotlinked it from Greg's forum

-Jay-

[slamjim]

Jay,

All those shirts you linked to on Ebay are legal and sold second hand. The other ones there a 1970s knock-off iron-ons (copyright from some other company). You are correct that this member has sold shirts on Ebay before. He has also posted the shirts for sale on Greg's site over the years and as recently as yesterday or today posted an ad for them. I would expect Greg or his defenders will have something to say about that post considering the uproar.

I see your point in that even though the guy said that he was sorry and would not sell them anymore he also admitted they were illegal and felt that was OK because he was just doing a favor. But...because he did so so quickly I don't think your going to see everyone have to pile it on because that would then just be overkill and have to be a show to help your case. What really needs to happens from this is for people to just drop the subject with you since they are being hypocrites with others doing something questionable. You've dropped the images, given credit, admitted it up front and volunteered to make things right with the site owner but haven't given the "i'm sorry" line that a few people think you still owe. If they aren't going to drop it at this point with you then they must pile it on this guy which to me seems like BS as both of you have given enough of an explanation and repented enough for my tastes. If it happens again then fine, attack away but both of you have promised what people asked. Done.

[wackyman]

Jay,

All those shirts you linked to on Ebay are legal and sold second hand. The other ones there a 1970s knock-off iron-ons (copyright from some other company). You are correct that this member has sold shirts on Ebay before. He has also posted the shirts for sale on Greg's site over the years and as recently as yesterday or today posted an ad for them. I would expect Greg or his defenders will have something to that post considering the uproar.

I see your point in that even though the guy said that he was sorry and would not sell them anymore he also admitted they were illegal and felt that was OK because he was just doing a favor. But...because he did so so quickly I don't think your going to see everyone have to pile it on because that would then just be overkill and have to be a show to help your case. What really needs to happens from this is for people to just drop the subject with you since they are being hypocrites with others doing something questionable. You've dropped the images, given credit, admitted it up front and volunteered to make things right with the site owner but haven't given the "i'm sorry" line that a few people think you still owe. If they aren't going to drop it at this point with you then they must pile it on this guy which to me seems like BS as both of you have given enough of an explanation and repented enough for my tastes. If it happens again then fine, attack away but both of you have promised what people asked. Done.

I hear you Dave, and I really don't want to turn this into my own soapbox for my thread / case even if it seems that way,  I just hate that this thread has been going on since the 9th or 11th both here and on Greg's forum, and it was clear as day that the shirts were knock offs even before he admitted it.

What I can't stand is that if I used images on a website for free I get 18 pages of people calling me a theif, asshole, scammer, attacker, etc etc  but this guy comes out SELLING stuff and people ask "how much?"

He did NOT say he would stop selling them, he simply said he would not MENTION THEM HERE,  that's a double slap in the face as far as I'm concerned.

I gotta walk away for a bit,  I'm more then furious here, and I just can not put into words my true feelings on this shit,  so before I totally piss everyone off here it's best for me  to just walk away and go cool off.

-Jay-

[JasonLiebig]

What speaks volumes is a little thing called "double standards"  I was picked apart and downright attacked for simply using someone else's images on a not for profit level,  those SAME PEOPLE were all over this thread and yet MOST of them SAID NOTHING (you can see who is viewing threads by looking at the top)

The people who DID speak in this thread FIRST actually wanted to buy the bootlegs, "How much"  "can you make this one"  & "can you make one with two diff wackys"

It's a well known fact who is allowed and who is not allowed to sell WP stuff, but from what I see it's only wrong to post images for free, but it's ok to sell them :(

Saying sorry does not mean that person will STOP selling the shirts, right now there are 14 WP shirts on Ebay
http://shop.ebay.com/?_from=R40&_trksid=p3907.m38.l1313&_nkw=wacky+packages+shirts&_sacat=See-All-Categories

Are any of them his/hers ? his images (that are now gone from this thread ALL said "card name-ebay-image" meaning he either HAS sold via ebay, is selling on ebay now OR about to sell on Ebay.

when it comes to out right breaking the law "sorry" does not mean jack shit

If Topps decided to take him to court with his admission he KNEW it was against the law to sell the shirts, do you really think "Sorry" will make the charges drop?

I'm more then livid on this matter,  there was an outright witch hunt on me (still is in a round about way) because I simply posted images for free, but selling images, that's ok?

I think my time here might just be about over :(

-Jay-

Jay,

I don't think there's even a question of legality of selling these bootleg tees is there?  It's pretty clear.  Which is, perhaps, why there aren't people "piling on".  It's fairly cut-and-dry, and not worthy of discussion.   There are lots of folks out there on Ebay bootlegging t-shirts, and we all clearly understand that it's illegal.  

The issue with utilizing Greg's scans as the basis for your cleaned-up images for your site is far more complicated and, apparently, worthy of debate/discussion.   It's also understandably closer to people here, because it is closer.  

It's easy to dismiss this guy because no one knows him, and it would appear he's disappeared.   But with you, it's far more different.  I can't speak for everyone, but for myself, I have high hopes for your continued online efforts with Wacky Packages.  So I'm far more interested in seeing you do things the right way (even if what the "right way" is less clearly defined).  

Ironically, inditing members here due to some perceived dual-standard is the kind of thing Greg did when we were discussing the issue with his scans.  I hope that's not what you're doing, and mentioning that you're "time here might just be about over", I don't understand what you mean.  It's a loaded statement, and I'd rather not read too much into it.

I don't think anyone here "supports" this guys' bootleg tees.  It just seems SO cut-and-dry that there's no reason to add to the discussion.  What he's doing is illegal, and he's going away, never to bother us again.   If he's selling bootleg Wacky tees on Ebay, Topps should stop him.  I believe Ebay's current policies only allow the copyright holder the ability to officially make that kind of complaint.  

Undertaking the kind of effort with Wacky Packages and your website is not something I would attempt.   I'm sure doing so will present opportunities for gratification and frustration.   I look forward to seeing what you can do, and I hope you have the stamina to go the long-haul.

[JasonLiebig]

I hear you Dave, and I really don't want to turn this into my own soapbox for my thread / case even if it seems that way,  I just hate that this thread has been going on since the 9th or 11th both here and on Greg's forum, and it was clear as day that the shirts were knock offs even before he admitted it.

What I can't stand is that if I used images on a website for free I get 18 pages of people calling me a theif, asshole, scammer, attacker, etc etc  but this guy comes out SELLING stuff and people ask "how much?"

He did NOT say he would stop selling them, he simply said he would not MENTION THEM HERE,  that's a double slap in the face as far as I'm concerned.

I gotta walk away for a bit,  I'm more then furious here, and I just can not put into words my true feelings on this shit,  so before I totally piss everyone off here it's best for me  to just walk away and go cool off.

-Jay-

Let me be clear, I think you removing images created from Greg's scans was the right thing to do.  I've said that publicly, and to you via PM.  But I never called you any of the names you are listing here, and in fact I felt I was always supportive of your efforts whenever I criticized your use of the scans.

Greg may not have legal protection for his scans, as they might be copyright infringement themselves.  That said, removing them was the right thing to do, and I believe it was a mis-step to utilize them in the way you did initially, especially since it's for a comprehensive website on Wacky Packages.  I'm happy that you removed the images and committed to go forward without using Greg's sticker scans, replacing them with new ones.   

You may have noticed that I'm not hitting this guy up for bootleg t-shirts, either.  It's clearly illegal, but I have no interest in cheering on HIS further efforts.  The fact that licensed shirts are currently available makes this simple. 

If you're implying that you're "pissed" at members here for a perceived dual-standard, I'd say you're being largely unfair, and it worries me for the future of your site.  I'd expect Greg to make those kinds of statements, not you. 

These situations might seem to involve similar fundamental issues of copyright (even though I think your situation was about taking the higher road of respect), but even granting that, the bigger picture is very different.

[Crakola Crayons]

Jay, I too hope you're here for the long haul and will continue to do your site the way it originally should have been done - by building it from your own sources.

As Jason and Dave pointed out, the t-shirt bootlegger is pretty cut and dried - we all know they're illegal, he admitted it and he's going away.  Case is closed.  No point in everyone screaming about it at this juncture.

[Bum_and_Mabel]

I think my time here might just be about over :(
-Jay-

This broke my heart. Did this break anyone else's heart?

[Bum_and_Mabel]

Quoting messngretz: "Sorry if I've offended or pissed anyone off..."

"Again my apologies if it has bothered any of you guys."

"...like I've already stated, sorry if it bothers you so much..."

"...like I said, I apologize if I've bothered or hurt anyone..."

None of these statements is an "apology."

A person can apologize for his own actions. Perhaps, in a manner of speaking, he can "apologize" for someone else's actions (such as "I'm sorry you got pissed," or "I'm sorry you stepped out in front of that bus."). But apologizing for someone else's actions is not an apology for one's own actions.

As far as this guy is concerned, the problem isn't with what he's done, but with other people's uptight response to it...

Someone above asked about the shirts' exact appearance. Even if his shirts were legal, those mock-up photos of his don't depict the product he's selling, merely an approximate "artist's conception" of them. For all intents and purposes, he might as well say to me, rather than posting a photo,

"Okay: imagine a white t-shirt. Sleeves about ...yea-long. Got it? Now, imagine a package of "Commie" on it, about...eight inches high! Can ya see it?"

Me: "Am I imagining a vintage look?"

Him: "No, no. If you're imagining a vintage look, stop. They aren't vintagey."

Me: "Okay. (concentrating) ...Okay."

Him: "...Wanna buy it? ...Believe me: it'll look just like you imagined."