Pack Searchers

[BumChex]

The Target near my house finally got a gravity feed. Even though I've got what I want coming in the mail this week, I considered buying a few packs to try for a sketch. This topic of "pack searching" has me a little paranoid, so I examined a few first. I checked 8 packs and all of them had the front card pushed upwards. I'm not sure what to make of it. I didn't buy any.

The top card would only tell them if it's a silver pack. The sketch is the 2nd or 3rd from the top.

[lucidjc]

The Target near my house finally got a gravity feed. Even though I've got what I want coming in the mail this week, I considered buying a few packs to try for a sketch. This topic of "pack searching" has me a little paranoid, so I examined a few first. I checked 8 packs and all of them had the front card pushed upwards. I'm not sure what to make of it. I didn't buy any.

If they were all like this it would be one thing. But i have been there when they put the gravity feed out "fresh". None of the packs had any cards slid down. The unopened 24 pack box i opened none of the cards were slid. This is not happening at the factory. I even took 5 random packs and tried to shake them up...no movement. Do a search for hot packs, 7500 entries. There are card dealers in every town. This is either some of those dealers doing this, or kids/teens/adult collectors are catching on. I dont want to know, i dont need to know, i usually buy all the packs there, but not any more. I will only buy if A. all packs are there...B. i feel they have not been searched. Some people are still finding this hard to believe. There is less evidence for Bigfoot.

[Gurgle]

The Target near my house finally got a gravity feed. Even though I've got what I want coming in the mail this week, I considered buying a few packs to try for a sketch. This topic of "pack searching" has me a little paranoid, so I examined a few first. I checked 8 packs and all of them had the front card pushed upwards. I'm not sure what to make of it. I didn't buy any.

There were Wackys reloaded into the Gravity feed at the Target near me. There were no cards pushed up in back. I bought some packs and the first one I opened had a gold card.

[Jean Nutty]

There were Wackys reloaded into the Gravity feed at the Target near me. There were no cards pushed up in back. I bought some packs and the first one I opened had a gold card.

As I walked away empty handed I thought to myself, "There is probably a color sketch in there"

[DrSushi]

As I walked away empty handed I thought to myself, "There is probably a color sketch in there"

I don't have the memory or energy to look back a few posts to check, but someone just posted that they pulled a sketch (obviously, no double-checking done for this statement) from packs that appeared searched, i.e., had a card or 2 pushed up. I submit that it depends on the searcher's skills whether or not the leftovers still have some meat on the bone.

[Jean Nutty]

I don't have the memory or energy to look back a few posts to check...

It slightly irritates me when I'm typing a post and am about 97% sure the answer to my question is a few pages back, or in some other nearby thread

of course not enough to stop me

[lucidjc]

There were Wackys reloaded into the Gravity feed at the Target near me. There were no cards pushed up in back. I bought some packs and the first one I opened had a gold card.

Yes Mark, but as i stated in an earlier post kids and people reloading the feeds is much different. How do you explain 6 packs missing from a 24 feed. No chase cards at all. Packs all had cards that were slid. This is when i started to get mad.  Come on Mark, you see they are pulling the exact packs with sketches. WTF is going on???

[lucidjc]

I don't have the memory or energy to look back a few posts to check

i was feeling cheeky so i went and found it in another thread.    It was Turbo, and he states it looked like. but from what he says these were just throw backs and not searched at all.


"I was at a target and there was only 39 packs left in the gravity feed and the 39 packs were thrown in and looked like someone searched them. I thought the person that searched the packs got the 8 silvers and the 9th pack was a gold or sketch. Well I bought the 39 packs anyways and I'm happy I did. I ended up with 6 silvers, 1 Mark Parisi sketch card and 1 #17 gold border. So whoever searched the packs and only bought 9 packs out of the feed only got 2 silvers. So if you see a gravity that doesn't have all the packs and looks like it was searched thru there still could be a gold or sketch or both. I was shocked that from 39 gravity packs that I pulled a sketch and a gold card."

[Gurgle]

Yes Mark, but as i stated in an earlier post kids and people reloading the feeds is much different. How do you explain 6 packs missing from a 24 feed. No chase cards at all. Packs all had cards that were slid. This is when i started to get mad.  Come on Mark, you see they are pulling the exact packs with sketches. WTF is going on???

What's with the defensiveness? I'm not trying to explain anything. I'm just adding to the thread by stating my experience. If you read my post carefully, you might even be able to claim my experience bolsters your theory. The gravity feed I pulled a pack from had no cards slipped up, so no evidence of tampering. And I got a gold.

[Dr Popper]

As I walked away empty handed I thought to myself, "There is probably a color sketch in there"

That's the feeling I usually get but the difference is I end up buying the packs because of it!  Usually I am wrong and there's nothing special in them though.

[DrSushi]

i was feeling cheeky so i went and found it in another thread.    It was Turbo, and he states it looked like. but from what he says these were just throw backs and not searched at all.


"I was at a target and there was only 39 packs left in the gravity feed and the 39 packs were thrown in and looked like someone searched them. I thought the person that searched the packs got the 8 silvers and the 9th pack was a gold or sketch. Well I bought the 39 packs anyways and I'm happy I did. I ended up with 6 silvers, 1 Mark Parisi sketch card and 1 #17 gold border. So whoever searched the packs and only bought 9 packs out of the feed only got 2 silvers. So if you see a gravity that doesn't have all the packs and looks like it was searched thru there still could be a gold or sketch or both. I was shocked that from 39 gravity packs that I pulled a sketch and a gold card."

You're right, he never says they were searched, just that they looked like they were searched. I told you I didn't have the memory. I'm glad you had the energy to follow through on that, thanks.

[lucidjc]

You're right, he never says they were searched, just that they looked like they were searched. I told you I didn't have the memory. I'm glad you had the energy to follow through on that, thanks.

NP, I'm just sad over the whole thing. Some of the thrill of hunting Wackys in the wild is gone. It went from excitment of "are they" going to be there, to geez i wonder if this batch has been searched.

[Hustler08]

What's with the defensiveness? I'm not trying to explain anything. I'm just adding to the thread by stating my experience. If you read my post carefully, you might even be able to claim my experience bolsters your theory. The gravity feed I pulled a pack from had no cards slipped up, so no evidence of tampering. And I got a gold.

Same holds true for me...no evidence of tampering and I got a GOLD...and lots of silvers..I would say less tampering at Target than Walmart...

[lucidjc]

Seems like there are just as many Golds on E-bay as Silvers. I wonder how that can be???

[Gurgle]

Seems like there are just as many Golds on E-bay as Silvers. I wonder how that can be???

I found 143 silvers (more, really, because some auctions are multiples) but I only see 12 ANS8 gold cards.

[Jean Nutty]

That's the feeling I usually get but the difference is I end up buying the packs because of it!  Usually I am wrong and there's nothing special in them though.

it's that "usually"

that's da hook, and that's the fun      

[lucidjc]

I found 143 silvers (more, really, because some auctions are multiples) but I only see 12 ANS8 gold cards.

Over 40 in completed listings, and the 12 or so you found. 3 to 1 ratio, I did say seems.   Even so, that doesnt seem like alot to you?

[Gurgle]

Over 40 in completed listings, and the 12 or so you found. 3 to 1 ratio, I did say seems.   Even so, that doesnt seem like alot to you?

But some of the completed listings did not sell and are probably relisted so you'd really have to compare to make sure you aren't counting some twice. Plus, it doesn't seem like you counted the silvers in the completed listings, too, which are 175. So, using your method of adding competed listings to live listings, I get
Silvers: 175 = 143 = 318
Gold: 42 + 12 = 54
That's roughly a 6:1 ratio. (And I'm not even considering the silver listings that are selling multiple cards)

But that doesn't accurately reflect how common silver is versus gold. In reality, people are just more apt to sell golds. I have many silvers but would not bother putting any of them up on eBay. I'm sure many people think the same way. I have an extra gold and would consider putting it on eBay.

[lucidjc]

But some of the completed listings did not sell and are probably relisted so you'd really have to compare to make sure you aren't counting some twice. Plus, it doesn't seem like you counted the silvers in the completed listings, too, which are 175. So, using your method of adding competed listings to live listings, I get
Silvers: 175 = 143 = 318
Gold: 42 + 12 = 54
That's roughly a 6:1 ratio. (And I'm not even considering the silver listings that are selling multiple cards)

But that doesn't accurately reflect how common silver is versus gold. In reality, people are just more apt to sell golds. I have many silvers but would not bother putting any of them up on eBay. I'm sure many people think the same way. I have an extra gold and would consider putting it on eBay.

I'm not going to stand here and get into a pissing contest with you over this. I stated what i was observing at the time. You took it upon yourself to start looking at the minutia. Why not go all the way and get us the exact numbers?

[sco(o)t]

But some of the completed listings did not sell and are probably relisted so you'd really have to compare to make sure you aren't counting some twice. Plus, it doesn't seem like you counted the silvers in the completed listings, too, which are 175. So, using your method of adding competed listings to live listings, I get
Silvers: 175 = 143 = 318
Gold: 42 + 12 = 54
That's roughly a 6:1 ratio. (And I'm not even considering the silver listings that are selling multiple cards)

But that doesn't accurately reflect how common silver is versus gold. In reality, people are just more apt to sell golds. I have many silvers but would not bother putting any of them up on eBay. I'm sure many people think the same way. I have an extra gold and would consider putting it on eBay.

Agreed. Speaking for myself, a silver border set seems very possible. I am 5 away from a full set and have used any extras to trade. But it took more than 8 boxes to compile a set. A gold set seems way out of reach. I have opened only one and want to keep it as an example. If I opened another, I would likely sell one given the unlikelihood of my collecting a set. So I would suggest many collectors are trying for a silver set... Not so much, the golds, resulting in what appears to be a gold heavier amount of sales on eBay than pack odds would indicate.

[Gurgle]

I'm not going to stand here and get into a pissing contest with you over this. I stated what i was observing at the time. You took it upon yourself to start looking at the minutia. Why not go all the way and get us the exact numbers?

I see. If I point out that your numbers are off, I'm pissing at you. Read my post. There was nothing antagonistic about it. Why are you getting so upset?

[BumChex]

I'm not going to stand here and get into a pissing contest with you over this. I stated what i was observing at the time. You took it upon yourself to start looking at the minutia. Why not go all the way and get us the exact numbers?

At a quick observation I would say there are a lot more Silvers available compared to golds. Yes, there have been quite a few golds sold but still not enough to make a whole set. I don't know why you guys are arguing. It's just an observation of trends like I'm noticing a hell of a lot more sketches available than with ANS7. I'm also noticing when really nice sketches get sold they rarely show up again on eBay. This is true with the last few PC series. The stuff that shows up is the same sketches most collectors have already. My point is people get pissy by how much people are spending on sketches but don't take in account that the sketch collectors know which ones are tougher to get. Look at the Hoppy Meal sketch that recently sold, it sold for over $200 while all the commons are still looking for bids.

[Hustler08]

At a quick observation I would say there are a lot more Silvers available compared to golds. Yes, there have been quite a few golds sold but still not enough to make a whole set. I don't know why you guys are arguing. It's just an observation of trends like I'm noticing a hell of a lot more sketches available than with ANS7. I'm also noticing when really nice sketches get sold they rarely show up again on eBay. This is true with the last few PC series. The stuff that shows up is the same sketches most collectors have already. My point is people get pissy by how much people are spending on sketches but don't take in account that the sketch collectors know which ones are tougher to get. Look at the Hoppy Meal sketch that recently sold, it sold for over $200 while all the commons are still looking for bids.

I noticed that also...with sketches concentrated among a FEW ebay guys..cardgary being one..and he might be shilling auctions...a lot more sketches than ANS7...and much lower prices...with ANS8 Gold and Sketch spread @ +55 at some points and closing in..

I have one of those Hoppy Meal puppies..maybe I should sell mine while its hot!!  who knows...

[Dr Popper]

I have one of those Hoppy Meal puppies..maybe I should sell mine while its hot!!  who knows...

There were only @ 10 of those Hoppy Meal sketches done so they are pretty tough to find!

[BumChex]

There were only @ 10 of those Hoppy Meal sketches done so they are pretty tough to find!

Right, my point is people think that some of these sketches are driving up prices and comparing the prices to all sketches. It's just not the case. They see a Hoppy Meal sketch sell for $200 and think they all should be worth that. I've seen enough dead and buried, t-Rex, & Z nerd boy to know that's not the case. Those generally sell around the $20 range.

[Plastered Peanut]

The Target near my house finally got a gravity feed. Even though I've got what I want coming in the mail this week, I considered buying a few packs to try for a sketch. This topic of "pack searching" has me a little paranoid, so I examined a few first. I checked 8 packs and all of them had the front card pushed upwards. I'm not sure what to make of it. I didn't buy any.

How can you tell from examining an unopened pack that the front card has been pushed upwards? 

[lucidjc]

I noticed on ANS7 release when a similar discussion started, that for me... it was impossible to make out card borders in the packs that are foil. But for the "white plastic" packs, in good light, you could make out different border colors. Still very tough. I bought a case of ANS7 but didn't get a sketch card or gold border in my packs.  I did purchased one of each for my set so played around with putting the sketch card in a wrapper with other cards. Under best possible circumstances, I could kinda, maybe tell. Don't know how someone could reliably do this in a store without being well practiced.

In the "Are these guys NUTS" thread, I posted some experimentation I did with ANS8 that would work great if you bought cases and were trying to find "hot packs" at home. I'll include the post below since its more appropriate here. I found when openening the packs within a box, there was a definite pattern and once one ascertained where you were in the pattern by openening the first two packs, you could tell where silver borders, tags, magnets, etc. would be. I only found one gold and one sketch in the case I purchased so can't tell how to detect them by position. But here is some other interesting info...

I didn't weigh packs as I was opening them so did a little experiment. I have a digital postage meter (on the cheap end). Previously, I posted the repeating pattern of 6 packs that I found when opening my boxes. So I weighed the various pack combinations using just the cards, as I have opened all my packs. For each combination shown below, I weighed multiple times using different cards but results where consistant. So here were the results on a cheap postage meter in grams:

   16 grams = 6 base cards - Pink border - Pack to the Future combination
   17 grams = 6 base cards - Pink border - Magnet combination
   16 grams = 6 base cards - Pink border - Movie combination
   15 grams = 6 base cards - Sliver border - Pack to the Future combination
   17 grams = 6 base cards - Pink border - Lenticular Tag combination
   15 grams = 6 base cards - Pink border - Movie combination

So the real item of interest is that in the pack I opened with the sketch card... the sketch card was an additional card in one of the 6 base cards - Sliver border - Pack to the Future combination. This combination weighs 18 grams.

Unless you were to run into some odd combination that wasn't planned , with something like two magnets in one pack,or 3 extra base cards (which I didn't when opening 8 boxes of packs),  
clearly the heaviest packs should contain a sketch card.  I can see how this helps if you are at home opening packs but is someone really going to take a scale into Walmart or Target? If so, they are more desperate than I.

My gold border card I opened came in one of the 6 base cards - Pink border - Movie packs and replaced the pink border card. Weight was no different than the normal pack.

Conclusions:
* Sketch cards can be determined by pack weight

* Silver border, tags and magnets can be predicted by the pack content pattern if you know
 where you are at in the pattern (by openening the first two packs in a box stack).

* I have no idea how gold border cards can be predicted. I know where the one I found was in the pattern order. Perhaps a certain box in each case contains one? Don't know. I only have the 1 case/8 box data set to go by. If any benefactor would like to contribute more cases to my research, please feel free to contact me.  

I can only go by how i found my sketch card in a B1 white pack blister pack, top pack. Mine also was in a Silver border - Pack To The Future combo, but mine only had the standard 5 base cards. So i dont think weighing the packs would work.


If anyone would like to contribute more blister packs to my research, i think my request is a little more reasonable. 

MY FIRST SKETCH   I will try to get a pic up in the other thread.

[Jean Nutty]

How can you tell from examining an unopened pack that the front card has been pushed upwards? 

When pinching the top of the packs, it felt like the first card (or maybe two) in the front was slide upward, while the rest were stacked together, below.

Probably an artifact of the manufacturing and packaging process.

Or not

                 

[Porkie]

When pinching the top of the packs, it felt like the first card (or maybe two) in the front was slide upward, while the rest were stacked together, below.

Probably an artifact of the manufacturing and packaging process.

Or not

                 (Image removed from quote.)

Holy cow -- talk about a flashback! -- I had some magic sets that included stuff from this guy! Wow. Thanks for the memories on that one!


Now back to the thread...

[Joe G.]

An eBay seller called hotpackcity just listed 4 ANS 8 sketch cards.  It's incredible what these hot pack sellers come up with!

[lucidjc]

I found if you hold the pack just right you can tap it like a top loader and the top cards will slide right up. Depending on how well you can do this, you can do any number of cards, hell you can bang the 3rd card and see if its a sketch. With practice this can be done very quickly. This is what i am finding at the retail stores, the left over banged up packs. Most of the UFC packs at retail stores are like this also.

[Jean Nutty]

This is what i am finding at the retail stores, the left over banged up packs.

That is damn funny 

If you are trying to slide cards around inside of a sealed pack, I wonder if a vibrator might be of assistance.


                                                                   

[loki]

Call me crazy... I tried the magnet trick on my own packs I already bought, in curiosity, and got 3 for 3 Silver border packs and obviously magnet too but only 1 for 1 on that so far.

To repeat, I was not pack searching in the strictest of terms because I was searching my own already bought packs. It is very slightly magnetic with the silver packs. I would almost assume gold would too but haven't been that lucky yet and having only opened 12 packs, obviously haven't came across gold. Also I realize "gold" isn't magnetic but neither is "silver" so...

(btw, a really strong magnet, NdFeB about 1/2 inch long 1/4 inch diameter rod type)

[bigfoot67]

If they were all like this it would be one thing. But i have been there when they put the gravity feed out "fresh". None of the packs had any cards slid down. The unopened 24 pack box i opened none of the cards were slid. This is not happening at the factory. I even took 5 random packs and tried to shake them up...no movement. Do a search for hot packs, 7500 entries. There are card dealers in every town. This is either some of those dealers doing this, or kids/teens/adult collectors are catching on. I dont want to know, i dont need to know, i usually buy all the packs there, but not any more. I will only buy if A. all packs are there...B. i feel they have not been searched. Some people are still finding this hard to believe. There is less evidence for Bigfoot.

Peek-a-booo!

[Porkie]

Bought some more packs from a gravity feed and pulled ZERO silvers/golds... Thought they might have been searched but bought them anyway -- because I wanted some Wackys on a whim -- but afterwards have felt a bit ripped off...

15 packs with all red is pretty fishy.