Author Topic: Lynch Common Sketches Conatain a Tracable Character Outline?  (Read 16680 times)

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Offline Liquidfox

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Lynch Common Sketches Conatain a Tracable Character Outline?
« on: April 14, 2011, 07:22:04 PM »
I received my First OS2 sketch (Wormy)today to start my OS2 collection and noticed blue lines that were present. I noticed these on the e-bay scans but thought Jay must have just been doing quick outlines in a blue pen.

After looking closely I noticed that these were actually printed on the card, presumably to make doing umpteen sketches of each subject easier for Jay.  Though I do realize he still cross hatched etc., it cheapens the sketches for me.

I don't think any other artists had this "crutch" because of their much lower numbers.

I just hope this isn't the way Topps is going.


I'm just sayin.

Thoughts?

Offline BumChex

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Re: Lynch Common Sketches Conatain a Tracable Character Outline?
« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2011, 07:25:17 PM »
How can you tell they were printed? I'll have to check over my dupes.

Offline slamjim

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Re: Lynch Common Sketches Conatain a Tracable Character Outline?
« Reply #2 on: April 14, 2011, 07:49:39 PM »
How can that "cheapen the sketch"? He drew it 100%, the character, the hatching and blacks. For OLDS1 he did the same thing only he used tracing paper which he then scratched the image onto the card and worked from it that way. It's the exact same thing only using a much better time saving and less arm straining technology. The OLDS1 way took him forever though so this time he drew up the 20 characters and had the basic outline faintly printed out on the card. After that its fully drawn. When I do my paintings I print out my rough directly onto the paper so I can follow my drawing and get my lettering down. If I didn't do that I'd be using a light table which is a pain. Same thing only better for time and the quality. If this was available back in the 70s I'd bet you Saunders would do the same.

Offline Liquidfox

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Re: Lynch Common Sketches Conatain a Tracable Character Outline?
« Reply #3 on: April 14, 2011, 07:56:20 PM »
How can that "cheapen the sketch"? He drew it 100%, the character, the hatching and blacks. For OLDS1 he did the same thing only he used tracing paper which he then scratched the image onto the card and worked from it that way. It's the exact same thing only using a much better time saving and less arm straining technology. The OLDS1 way took him forever though so this time he drew up the 20 characters and had the basic outline faintly printed out on the card. After that its fully drawn. When I do my paintings I print out my rough directly onto the paper so I can follow my drawing and get my lettering down. If I didn't do that I'd be using a light table which is a pain. Same thing only better for time and the quality. If this was available back in the 70s I'd bet you Saunders would do the same.

Right, as you said you do it yourself...while he may have done the outlines and then had Topps print up the cards he is still doing the piece on a pre-printed outline already places on the "sketch" card.

Cheapens it for me. If everybody else is cool with that so be it.

Takes that, you now own a one of a kind out of it for me that's all.  Feels kinds mass produced, which I guess 3000 sketch cards is.

Offline slamjim

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Re: Lynch Common Sketches Conatain a Tracable Character Outline?
« Reply #4 on: April 14, 2011, 08:02:58 PM »
Right, as you said you do it yourself...while he may have done the outlines and then had Topps print up the cards he is still doing the piece on a pre-printed outline already places on the "sketch" card.

Cheapens it for me. If everybody else is cool with that so be it.

Takes that, you now own a one of a kind out of it for me that's all.  Feels kinds mass produced, which I guess 3000 sketch cards is.


It's still one of a kind. Every single pen stroke is done by hand. No two are the same. It's still the exact same process from OLDS1 because Jay did not actually draw the under drawing on those cards either. They were scratched on and then worked over. In fact, I scratched out hundreds of them for him. That is his process. Technically, that is a basic form of "printing" the image on the card as well. I mean what is cheating on these. For all my sketches I first do a 30 second/ maybe a minute faint under drawing to make sure I don't screw up the proportions or leave the border then work from that to do the real drawing. Yeah, I did draw it but it's still a sort of production set up technically for the real sketch.

Offline Liquidfox

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Re: Lynch Common Sketches Conatain a Tracable Character Outline?
« Reply #5 on: April 14, 2011, 08:12:57 PM »
I'm not saying all of a sudden his work is a flying POS....

It's just kind of like the Wizard of OZ when the curtain gets drawn back....

Offline slamjim

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Re: Lynch Common Sketches Conatain a Tracable Character Outline?
« Reply #6 on: April 14, 2011, 08:28:54 PM »
I'm not saying all of a sudden his work is a flying POS....

It's just kind of like the Wizard of OZ when the curtain gets drawn back....

Terrible analogy. The Wizard of Oz was a fraud who could not actually do anything. Jay is an exceptional artist and he COULD spend a year doing thousands of under drawings for positioning but I think it's preferable that he spend all his time doing the 100% Jay inked drawings instead. Everyone who works on these sketches is basically getting under minimum wage because of all the time they put into each and every sketch. Jay probably spends up to a half hour on each "sketch" (more like a full blown drawing).

Offline Liquidfox

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Re: Lynch Common Sketches Conatain a Tracable Character Outline?
« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2011, 04:50:44 AM »
I say great analogy and...you sound defensive Dave.

Of course you work for Topps so that is to be expected.

Secondly, don't play the we don't get paid much, poor us violin. One can always say no to these projects.

Instead of trying to turn this into a personal attack against Jay, see it for what it is, which is disappointment in a Topps product.

Bottom line is, printed trace lines on the sketch cards stink. I won't be buying any more of those that contain them. I'd rather keep picking up the one of a kind sketches he did for FB1 or commish him to something on the side.


BTW the wizard isn't Jay it is Topps and judging by the delays with this release and the horrid printing quality on FB2, I would say your interpretation of the analogy is correct.

« Last Edit: April 15, 2011, 05:02:16 AM by Liquidfox »

Offline jaylynch

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Re: Lynch Common Sketches Conatain a Tracable Character Outline?
« Reply #8 on: April 15, 2011, 05:43:32 AM »
When the idea of my doing 3,500 sketch cards for OS 1 was presented to me, I calculated that to produce this amount of cards with decent drawings on 'em from scratch would take me approximately six years.   To cut down the time involved, I decided to do 100 or so repeat drawings of the same character.  To further cut down the time, I drew each character in pencil backwards on a sheet of tracing paper and rubbed off that image onto 100 cards to use as  penciling.   Then I inked over the rubbed-off penciling.     But even with those time-saving devices, it still took too long.     Since the time involved rubbing off each card from the tracing paper penciling took almost as much time as the inking took, for OS 2, I had Topps print the penciling instead.   And STILL it took too much time to do.   
     The only alternatives to this is in order to maintain the quality of the drawings is to get 50 or so artists to each do 100 cards, or to reduce the quality of the final images on the cards to quickly executed stick figure drawings. I could have easily done 3,000 or so crude pencil drawings on these things where the characters would be unidentifiable...reducing Captain Crud to an asymmetrical Have-a-Nice-Day face with a crude indication of a pirate hat...but what does that prove?  That I can hold a pencil? 
      The complaint that pre-printed guide lines under these things diminish the value of the sketch cards is like complaining that the hundred dollar bill that you get free in a fifty dollar pack of trading cards has a few wrinkles in it.

Offline Hustler08

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Re: Lynch Common Sketches Conatain a Tracable Character Outline?
« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2011, 05:55:54 AM »
I say great analogy and...you sound defensive Dave.

Of course you work for Topps so that is to be expected.

Secondly, don't play the we don't get paid much, poor us violin. One can always say no to these projects.

Instead of trying to turn this into a personal attack against Jay, see it for what it is, which is disappointment in a Topps product.

Bottom line is, printed trace lines on the sketch cards stink. I won't be buying any more of those that contain them. I'd rather keep picking up the one of a kind sketches he did for FB1 or commish him to something on the side.


BTW the wizard isn't Jay it is Topps and judging by the delays with this release and the horrid printing quality on FB2, I would say your interpretation of the analogy is correct.



Did you say the OLDS1 sketches were done the same way or were hey 'etched' first...would you put OLDS1 at a higher quality than OLDS2??

Offline Hustler08

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Re: Lynch Common Sketches Conatain a Tracable Character Outline?
« Reply #10 on: April 15, 2011, 06:01:50 AM »
When the idea of my doing 3,500 sketch cards for OS 1 was presented to me, I calculated that to produce this amount of cards with decent drawings on 'em from scratch would take me approximately six years.   To cut down the time involved, I decided to do 100 or so repeat drawings of the same character.  To further cut down the time, I drew each character in pencil backwards on a sheet of tracing paper and rubbed off that image onto 100 cards to use as  penciling.   Then I inked over the rubbed-off penciling.     But even with those time-saving devices, it still took too long.     Since the time involved rubbing off each card from the tracing paper penciling took almost as much time as the inking took, for OS 2, I had Topps print the penciling instead.   And STILL it took too much time to do.   
     The only alternatives to this is in order to maintain the quality of the drawings is to get 50 or so artists to each do 100 cards, or to reduce the quality of the final images on the cards to quickly executed stick figure drawings. I could have easily done 3,000 or so crude pencil drawings on these things where the characters would be unidentifiable...reducing Captain Crud to an asymmetrical Have-a-Nice-Day face with a crude indication of a pirate hat...but what does that prove?  That I can hold a pencil? 
      The complaint that pre-printed guide lines under these things diminish the value of the sketch cards is like complaining that the hundred dollar bill that you get free in a fifty dollar pack of trading cards has a few wrinkles in it.

Jay,

IMO..all the sketch cards for both OLDS1 and 2 were done beautifully...regardless of the lines or etchings to get them there...Please keep it going Great Job..the Hobby surely loves this...as I do...it really makes it worth being a colllector...BTW the Blue Beanie sketch you did is fantastic!! HGW..my 2cents..

Offline MarkF

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Re: Lynch Common Sketches Conatain a Tracable Character Outline?
« Reply #11 on: April 15, 2011, 06:03:00 AM »
To further cut down the time, I drew each character in pencil backwards on a sheet of tracing paper and rubbed off that image onto 100 cards to use as  penciling.   Then I inked over the rubbed-off penciling.    

Rubbing is a form of printing! I'm selling my Olds 1 sketch cards right now!  :D

I can sort of see the issue for sketch card collectors though I also don't see the Wizard of Oz thing either. I don't work for Topps so I have nothing to defend either. It's not a good analogy. If its a personal preference that's cool.

Despite how the cards were done both Ghoul Humor and Playskull by Jay are my favorite sketches so far.

Offline Dr Popper

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Re: Lynch Common Sketches Conatain a Tracable Character Outline?
« Reply #12 on: April 15, 2011, 06:06:54 AM »
Right, as you said you do it yourself...while he may have done the outlines and then had Topps print up the cards he is still doing the piece on a pre-printed outline already places on the "sketch" card.

Cheapens it for me. If everybody else is cool with that so be it.

Takes that, you now own a one of a kind out of it for me that's all.  Feels kinds mass produced, which I guess 3000 sketch cards is.


I can see how you can feel that it "cheapens" the sketch for you, but you have to factor in the quantity that Jay is doing for these.  That's what this is all about.  If he was doing a hundred of them I'm sure he wouldn't use an outline, but when he needs to do 2,500 to 3,000 of them, that's a totally different scenario.  I'm not sure us as collectors really appreciate what it takes to do 3,000 hand-drawn sketches with a time-frame.  That must be brutal!  It sounds like that technique is pretty much necessary to make that amount within a certain time-frame.  I would much prefer having them done that way than having the total quantity of sketches going down to the point that they are so rare they all sell for hundreds of dollars. I think you have to look at the big picture.




Dr Popper (aka Rob Palmer)

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Re: Lynch Common Sketches Conatain a Tracable Character Outline?
« Reply #13 on: April 15, 2011, 07:50:04 AM »
Traced, etched or whatever does not matter to me at all.  I still like the sketch cards but what upsets me more than anything is that the joy of collecting the actual wacky sticker has taken a back seat to the sketches for some.  Ask yourself this, if there were no sketch cards would you even consider to still purchase the wackys themselves?

Offline RawGoo

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Re: Lynch Common Sketches Conatain a Tracable Character Outline?
« Reply #14 on: April 15, 2011, 08:13:28 AM »
Traced, etched or whatever does not matter to me at all.  I still like the sketch cards but what upsets me more than anything is that the joy of collecting the actual wacky sticker has taken a back seat to the sketches for some.  Ask yourself this, if there were no sketch cards would you even consider to still purchase the wackys themselves?

I still value the stickers over the sketches.  I do really like the sketches, and would love to collect more of them, but the new stickers are what I really want.  I wish the tan backs were real - these don't look right when you make a peeled border set.....

Offline BustedFinger

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Re: Lynch Common Sketches Conatain a Tracable Character Outline?
« Reply #15 on: April 15, 2011, 09:37:53 AM »
these don't look right when you make a peeled border set.....

Now that's funny!!
Giving "The Hobby" the finger since 1999!

Offline Dr Popper

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Re: Lynch Common Sketches Conatain a Tracable Character Outline?
« Reply #16 on: April 15, 2011, 11:31:19 AM »
Ask yourself this, if there were no sketch cards would you even consider to still purchase the wackys themselves?

Yes, but only enough boxes to fulfill one set, and then I would be done buying more, as would many others! 
Dr Popper (aka Rob Palmer)

Offline Liquidfox

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Re: Lynch Common Sketches Conatain a Tracable Character Outline?
« Reply #17 on: April 15, 2011, 12:32:23 PM »
When I used the word cheapen I meant the integrity of the product...these things are only worth what people are willing to pay which really counts for just about anything.   

Less sketch cards is a good solution.

Offline Liquidfox

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Re: Lynch Common Sketches Conatain a Tracable Character Outline?
« Reply #18 on: April 15, 2011, 12:35:28 PM »
Traced, etched or whatever does not matter to me at all.  I still like the sketch cards but what upsets me more than anything is that the joy of collecting the actual wacky sticker has taken a back seat to the sketches for some.  Ask yourself this, if there were no sketch cards would you even consider to still purchase the wackys themselves?

Really no sketches or chase cards would be a beautiful thing but a lot of people would have to find something else in life to make themselves feel better than others. ;)

Offline Paul_Maul

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Re: Lynch Common Sketches Conatain a Tracable Character Outline?
« Reply #19 on: April 15, 2011, 12:55:16 PM »
Really no sketches or chase cards would be a beautiful thing but a lot of people would have to find something else in life to make themselves feel better than others. ;)

Yeah, we'd have to go back to the original way of having the top 1st series set on the PSA registry!

Offline Dr Popper

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Re: Lynch Common Sketches Conatain a Tracable Character Outline?
« Reply #20 on: April 15, 2011, 01:17:44 PM »
When the idea of my doing 3,500 sketch cards for OS 1 was presented to me, I calculated that to produce this amount of cards with decent drawings on 'em from scratch would take me approximately six years.   To cut down the time involved, I decided to do 100 or so repeat drawings of the same character.  To further cut down the time, I drew each character in pencil backwards on a sheet of tracing paper and rubbed off that image onto 100 cards to use as  penciling.   Then I inked over the rubbed-off penciling.     But even with those time-saving devices, it still took too long.     Since the time involved rubbing off each card from the tracing paper penciling took almost as much time as the inking took, for OS 2, I had Topps print the penciling instead.   And STILL it took too much time to do.   
     The only alternatives to this is in order to maintain the quality of the drawings is to get 50 or so artists to each do 100 cards, or to reduce the quality of the final images on the cards to quickly executed stick figure drawings. I could have easily done 3,000 or so crude pencil drawings on these things where the characters would be unidentifiable...reducing Captain Crud to an asymmetrical Have-a-Nice-Day face with a crude indication of a pirate hat...but what does that prove?  That I can hold a pencil? 
      The complaint that pre-printed guide lines under these things diminish the value of the sketch cards is like complaining that the hundred dollar bill that you get free in a fifty dollar pack of trading cards has a few wrinkles in it.

Just out of curiosity Jay, why did they use a blue line instead of black?  If it was black it wouldn't even be noticeable.  Not that you would intentionally want to hide them, but I would think the ideal way is to not have them show up on the edges and such.

 
Dr Popper (aka Rob Palmer)

Offline BumChex

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Re: Lynch Common Sketches Conatain a Tracable Character Outline?
« Reply #21 on: April 15, 2011, 01:19:54 PM »
They wouldn't sell as well. We could all just buy one box and be done because we had them all. I like it this way. now it makes collecting as adults as tough as it was when we were kids. Sure the prices are higher but they were also high for us as kids. As a kid you could buy 3-4 packs at a time and probably only once a week. Now we can only buy 3-4 boxes. I think the chase stuff makes it tough to collect just like the old days!

Offline slamjim

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Re: Lynch Common Sketches Conatain a Tracable Character Outline?
« Reply #22 on: April 15, 2011, 01:21:33 PM »
Just out of curiosity Jay, why did they use a blue line instead of black?  If it was black it wouldn't even be noticeable.  Not that you would intentionally want to hide them, but I would think the ideal way is to not have them show up on the edges and such.

 

Black would probably be more noticeable if he doesn't follow the lines to a 'T' because then that black line would appear to become part of the image.You want to keep an under drawing as an under drawing.

Offline slamjim

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Re: Lynch Common Sketches Conatain a Tracable Character Outline?
« Reply #23 on: April 15, 2011, 01:27:09 PM »
They wouldn't sell as well. We could all just buy one box and be done because we had them all. I like it this way. now it makes collecting as adults as tough as it was when we were kids. Sure the prices are higher but they were also high for us as kids. As a kid you could buy 3-4 packs at a time and probably only once a week. Now we can only buy 3-4 boxes. I think the chase stuff makes it tough to collect just like the old days!

I think this is right. As a kid you are picking up a few packs at a store with your measly allowance. Now it's point and click and pay for it all at once with our adult cash.

The chase stuff give collecting things nowadays a bit of a challenge and that thrill of the hunt. I prefer multiple things to collect as long as the chase cards are reasonable unlike Flashback. I hate the color border stuff. I have some ideas for series 3 for the base set to make it more interesting.

Offline Dr Popper

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Re: Lynch Common Sketches Conatain a Tracable Character Outline?
« Reply #24 on: April 15, 2011, 01:29:01 PM »
They wouldn't sell as well. We could all just buy one box and be done because we had them all. I like it this way. now it makes collecting as adults as tough as it was when we were kids. Sure the prices are higher but they were also high for us as kids. As a kid you could buy 3-4 packs at a time and probably only once a week. Now we can only buy 3-4 boxes. I think the chase stuff makes it tough to collect just like the old days!

Exactly, it's similar to the way we were when we were kids because we are adults now and have money.  For those that want it exactly like it was in 1973 aren't being realistic.  This series is as close as we will ever get to the good ole days.  Tanbacks, 9-piece puzzle, 70's products, etc.  In my opinion these series are so much fun collecting I think looking back it will have similar memories to the 70's, and may even surpass it.  Chase cards aren't going away any time soon, but that's not a bad thing! 
Dr Popper (aka Rob Palmer)

Offline jaylynch

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Re: Lynch Common Sketches Conatain a Tracable Character Outline?
« Reply #25 on: April 15, 2011, 01:35:25 PM »
I'm thinking next time they could print the underdrawing in a thermal ink which only appears temporarily in temperatures over 100  degrees and is otherwise invisible.  Then I could do the drawings with a heat lamp focused on the cards.   How's that sound, Dave?  Think Topps would pop for a heat lamp?

Offline deadpresidentsvisa

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Re: Lynch Common Sketches Conatain a Tracable Character Outline?
« Reply #26 on: April 15, 2011, 01:36:34 PM »
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Offline slamjim

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Re: Lynch Common Sketches Conatain a Tracable Character Outline?
« Reply #27 on: April 15, 2011, 01:47:03 PM »
I'm thinking next time they could print the underdrawing in a thermal ink which only appears temporarily in temperatures over 100  degrees and is otherwise invisible.  Then I could do the drawings with a heat lamp focused on the cards.   How's that sound, Dave?  Think Topps would pop for a heat lamp?

I hope you're not too pale 'cause you are going to have some very tanned hands.

Offline Swiski

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Re: Lynch Common Sketches Conatain a Tracable Character Outline?
« Reply #28 on: April 15, 2011, 02:24:33 PM »
What's a Conatain?

Offline slamjim

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Re: Lynch Common Sketches Conatain a Tracable Character Outline?
« Reply #29 on: April 15, 2011, 02:25:55 PM »
What's a Conatain?

A 1970s headache medicine. I didn't use it because I was worried people would not recognize it.

Offline Playskull

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Re: Lynch Common Sketches Conatain a Tracable Character Outline?
« Reply #30 on: April 15, 2011, 02:59:18 PM »
I prefer multiple things to collect as long as the chase cards are reasonable unlike Flashback.
Or ANS7.  Those sketch odds were disgusting.

Offline DrSushi

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Re: Lynch Common Sketches Conatain a Tracable Character Outline?
« Reply #31 on: April 15, 2011, 03:58:25 PM »
I'm thinking next time they could print the underdrawing in a thermal ink which only appears temporarily in temperatures over 100  degrees and is otherwise invisible.  Then I could do the drawings with a heat lamp focused on the cards.   How's that sound, Dave?  Think Topps would pop for a heat lamp?

No, but they could have you work in room with the heat cranked way up. You know, an actual sweat shop!

Offline Plan 9

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Re: Lynch Common Sketches Conatain a Tracable Character Outline?
« Reply #32 on: April 15, 2011, 04:23:13 PM »

With Jay tracing his cards there's no spontaneity in their execution. Every card is a clone. It still has the artists touch but it's more akin to an autograph. For $10-15 bucks it's still a fair purchase.



Offline Plan 9

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Re: Lynch Common Sketches Conatain a Tracable Character Outline?
« Reply #33 on: April 15, 2011, 04:26:27 PM »
Exactly, it's similar to the way we were when we were kids because we are adults now and have money.  For those that want it exactly like it was in 1973 aren't being realistic.  This series is as close as we will ever get to the good ole days.  Tanbacks, 9-piece puzzle, 70's products, etc.  In my opinion these series are so much fun collecting I think looking back it will have similar memories to the 70's, and may even surpass it.  Chase cards aren't going away any time soon, but that's not a bad thing! 
I've wondered about that many times. Do folks over 60 ever feel nostalgic for their 40's? Maybe nostalgic memories stop around high school.

Offline Jean Nutty

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Re: Lynch Common Sketches Conatain a Tracable Character Outline?
« Reply #34 on: April 15, 2011, 05:20:28 PM »
I hate the color border stuff.

Did Topps purposely design FB borders to be obnoxious in order to encourage us to stick 'em everywhere?

If so, what a brilliant idea - what collector doesn’t want to separate the stickers from the borders?!      :dontknow:

 

anything