Vending Machine Find

[Paul_Maul]

I don't believe this has been discussed on this forum:

A few weeks ago, an ebay seller approached Greg for information. The seller had been contacted by someone who claimed to have
a 1970's era vending machine which was full of yellow original series wacky packages unopened packs as well as packs of 1972 Topps Presidents cards. He was trying to determine exactly what the wackys actually were.

There were 55 wacky unopened packs in all. It was eventually determined that they were 3rd series packs, and the seller put 17 of them on ebay in the dead of night for $16 apiece:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_trksid=p4340.l2557&rt=nc&nma=true&item=200587970223

As someone who actually sleeps I never even saw the auction. I was familiar with the seller from the PSA card forum, so I contacted him directly. Through a direct purchase from him and a trade with one of the lucky individuals who got them on ebay, I will have 9 of these packs total later this week.

The seller opened three of the packs, and I have since opened one of them. They are in beautiful condition, but the interesting part is that most of them seem to contain only one sticker and a checklist, although the seller reported that one of the packs he opened contained two stickers and a checklist.

I'm struggling with whether to consider these normal 3rds (all of the contents are 3rd series) or a special pack (since they were apparently created intentionally to have only one sticker). I plan to open a couple more, as getting a few with two stickers would make me more comfortable classifying them as normal 3rd series packs.

What a cool find! I believe the seller still has a few left, and one is actually on ebay right now:

http://cgi.ebay.com/1973-Topps-Wacky-Packages-Series-3-Card-Unopened-Pack_W0QQitemZ140528736388

[Gurgle]

Amazing how things continually crop up.

[Dr Popper]

I don't believe this has been discussed on this forum:

A few weeks ago, an ebay seller approached Greg for information. The seller had been contacted by someone who claimed to have
a 1970's era vending machine which was full of yellow original series wacky packages unopened packs as well as packs of 1972 Topps Presidents cards. He was trying to determine exactly what the wackys actually were.

There were 55 wacky unopened packs in all. It was eventually determined that they were 3rd series packs, and the seller put 17 of them on ebay in the dead of night for $16 apiece:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_trksid=p4340.l2557&rt=nc&nma=true&item=200587970223

As someone who actually sleeps I never even saw the auction. I was familiar with the seller from the PSA card forum, so I contacted him directly. Through a direct purchase from him and a trade with one of the lucky individuals who got them on ebay, I will have 9 of these packs total later this week.

The seller opened three of the packs, and I have since opened one of them. They are in beautiful condition, but the interesting part is that most of them seem to contain only one sticker and a checklist, although the seller reported that one of the packs he opened contained two stickers and a checklist.

I'm struggling with whether to consider these normal 3rds (all of the contents are 3rd series) or a special pack (since they were apparently created intentionally to have only one sticker). I plan to open a couple more, as getting a few with two stickers would make me more comfortable classifying them as normal 3rd series packs.

What a cool find! I believe the seller still has a few left, and one is actually on ebay right now:

http://cgi.ebay.com/1973-Topps-Wacky-Packages-Series-3-Card-Unopened-Pack_W0QQitemZ140528736388

Did the seller just open one pack that had 2 stickers in it, and did the others he opened contain only one?  I'm curious if just that one pack had only 1 sticker, making it look more like an error.

[Paul_Maul]

The seller opened 3 packs: only one of those had two stickers. The one pack I opened had only one sticker. So, of the packs I know of being opened so far, 75% of them had only one sticker instead of two. I think that's too many for it to be just a quality control error.

[Dr Popper]

The seller opened 3 packs: only one of those had two stickers. The one pack I opened had only one sticker. So, of the packs I know of being opened so far, 75% of them had only one sticker instead of two. I think that's too many for it to be just a quality control error.

Sounds that way.  If you open a couple more and they have only one sticker as well then I would say it's a unique 1 sticker vending machine pack, but with the same code as a series 3.  The problem is that how do you know whether or not is has 1 or 2 in it if you are an unopened pack collector?  I guess you have to assume?   

[JasonLiebig]

Amazing how things continually crop up.

Yeah.  PaulMaul - I'm actually a little curious about the find itself.  Are there any details?  Where was this vending machine?  I have ideas of it sitting in vending rental company back room, buried under other old machines, gathering dust.  

Would love to know details, if they exist.  If the story isn't already known, perhaps I could e-mail the seller.

[Paul_Maul]

Yeah.  PaulMaul - I'm actually a little curious about the find itself.  Are there any details?  Where was this vending machine?  I have ideas of it sitting in vending rental company back room, buried under other old machines, gathering dust.  

Would love to know details, if they exist.  If the story isn't already known, perhaps I could e-mail the seller.

The person who found them is an older private citizen who basically has a huge house full of stuff: pinball machines, records, models, etc. I have no idea how he came to possess the vending machine(s). If you want to contact the seller, feel free, but the
ebay seller is not the actual guy who found the stuff, so he may not have any further details.

 

[Paul_Maul]

Sounds that way.  If you open a couple more and they have only one sticker as well then I would say it's a unique 1 sticker vending machine pack, but with the same code as a series 3.  The problem is that how do you know whether or not is has 1 or 2 in it if you are an unopened pack collector?  I guess you have to assume?   

This is exactly my quandary. I can't be sure that any of the packs in my collection have two stickers, or might have only one. I really don't care as long as I know it's an aberration. I agree, if several of these were opened and found to have two stickers, I would say it's pointless to distinguish between them. Even if they mostly have one sticker, there is no reliable way to perceive that without opening them, so perhaps it's moot.

Although I remember Andy Herrmann used to claim he could tell whitebacks from tanbacks in an unopened pack by measuring the thickness using calipers. Surely this would be easier than that?

[Paul_Maul]

By the way, I misspoke, the actual number of wacky unopened packs found was 44, not 55.

[Dr Popper]

This is exactly my quandary. I can't be sure that any of the packs in my collection have two stickers, or might have only one. I really don't care as long as I know it's an aberration. I agree, if several of these were opened and found to have two stickers, I would say it's pointless to distinguish between them. Even if they mostly have one sticker, there is no reliable way to perceive that without opening them, so perhaps it's moot.

Although I remember Andy Herrmann used to claim he could tell whitebacks from tanbacks in an unopened pack by measuring the thickness using calipers. Surely this would be easier than that?

There should be enough thickness in one sticker to tell from a micrometer.  That's a pretty good idea actually.  You could do a few fake test packs to test it out.

[Tic_Toc]

This is exactly my quandary. I can't be sure that any of the packs in my collection have two stickers, or might have only one. I really don't care as long as I know it's an aberration. I agree, if several of these were opened and found to have two stickers, I would say it's pointless to distinguish between them. Even if they mostly have one sticker, there is no reliable way to perceive that without opening them, so perhaps it's moot.

Although I remember Andy Herrmann used to claim he could tell whitebacks from tanbacks in an unopened pack by measuring the thickness using calipers. Surely this would be easier than that?

It would be a real shame to kill any more of these packs if they truly are unique for vending machines.  Couldn't you just weigh them with an extremely accurate scale?  The weight difference between 1 or 2 stickers is slight, but since you have an opened pack, you could determine a baseline weight and compare the remaining packs to that.

[Paul_Maul]

It would be a real shame to kill any more of these packs if they truly are unique for vending machines.  Couldn't you just weigh them with an extremely accurate scale?  The weight difference between 1 or 2 stickers is slight, but since you have an opened pack, you could determine a baseline weight and compare the remaining packs to that.

I'm afraid I don't have any micrometers or precision scales, but I would like to figure this out, because if I can ascertain with some
certainty that a pack has two stickers, it becomes indistinguishable from a regular 3rd series pack, and I'm allowed to use it for a 3rd series pack in my regular pack collection. I would also keep a one-sticker pack separately in the "fun pack"-ish  category.

[Dr Popper]

I'm afraid I don't have any micrometers or precision scales, but I would like to figure this out, because if I can ascertain with some
certainty that a pack has two stickers, it becomes indistinguishable from a regular 3rd series pack, and I'm allowed to use it for a 3rd series pack in my regular pack collection. I would also keep a one-sticker pack separately in the "fun pack"-ish  category.

I have a nice micrometer and a precision scale.  I need and use both for my business.  I'll check them out if you want to send them to me, or I can bring them to the Philly show.  I'm pretty sure I'm going at this point.

[bandaches]

The seller opened 3 packs: only one of those had two stickers. The one pack I opened had only one sticker. So, of the packs I know of being opened so far, 75% of them had only one sticker instead of two. I think that's too many for it to be just a quality control error.

Is there a picture of this vending machine? 

[Duznt]

Is there a picture of this vending machine? 

That would be cool to see.
I don't remember any vending machines back then that had Wackys, or any type of card packs really.

[Paul_Maul]

Is there a picture of this vending machine? 

No, from what I understand, the guy who had it sent only the packs to the ebay seller who sold them for him. So I don't believe there were any pix of anything. I'm trying to picture what the machine looked like. His description talked about it having two "sides", one with the wackys and one with American Presidents packs.

[Paul_Maul]

I have a nice micrometer and a precision scale.  I need and use both for my business.  I'll check them out if you want to send them to me, or I can bring them to the Philly show.  I'm pretty sure I'm going at this point.

It would be excellent if you could bring the scale to the show. I think that's probably the best bet. I'm going to keep all of the contents of the pack I already opened. We can weigh that, and then compare all of the other packs to it. Do you think the scale is likely to be sensitive enough to detect the weight of a tanback?

[Dr Popper]

It would be excellent if you could bring the scale to the show. I think that's probably the best bet. I'm going to keep all of the contents of the pack I already opened. We can weigh that, and then compare all of the other packs to it. Do you think the scale is likely to be sensitive enough to detect the weight of a tanback?

I'll test it out in the next couple of days.  I just want to make sure it's not too much weight for it, because it's a very sensitive scale used for weighing paper basis weight.  I also have a digital scale but that may not be precise enough.  I'll check them both out.

[Buzzooka]

I have a double beam balance dialogram that I used to detect the difference between packs with all stickers, a tatoo, cling or even a foil. It was not easy and it had to be done a box at a time because the basis weight of nearby stickers, adhesive, and release liner must be very close.   My balance is metric and goes to two decimal places (.01 grams). Detecting the difference of an entire sticker will be easy on a scale that goes to one decimal.

[Dr Popper]

I have a double beam balance dialogram that I used to detect the difference between packs with all stickers, a tatoo, cling or even a foil. It was not easy and it had to be done a box at a time because the basis weight of nearby stickers, adhesive, and release liner must be very close.   My balance is metric and goes to two decimal places (.01 grams). Detecting the difference of an entire sticker will be easy on a scale that goes to one decimal.

A "double-beamed balance dialogram"?  That sure sounds better than my tool!

[Buzzooka]

Yeah, it has come in handy over the years. I have access to even better digital ones at work that go to four decimal places. They are actually a pain because the number changes just form the evaporation of moisture from you fingers after you place something on the pan.

[sco(o)t]

A "double-beamed balance dialogram"?  That sure sounds better than my tool!

Hmmmm, I though that was an Olympic Sport.   

[Paul_Maul]

Wow, this story just gets more and more confusing. I was just corresponding with the ebay seller, and he told me the following:

 "He (the consignor) remembers picking up the vending machine at a flea market brand New in 1972/73. At first I was under the impression that the machine came with product in it, but now it seems that it did not, he remembers stopping at a Store on the way home with the machine and grabbing whatever Wax Packs they had on the counter and then sticking them inside, sealing the box where it sat for the last 40 years. 40+ 1972 Topps US Presidents and 44 1973 Wacky Packages Series III."

If that's really true, that would mean these are just normal 3rd series packs, and the fact that several of them seem to have one
sticker could just be some kind of anomaly. The fact that the number of packs closely approximates a nearly full wax box might
make this account plausible. I don't take any of this as gospel as it is all based on 40-year old recollections, but it is an interesting tidbit as far as determining the nature of these packs.

[bandaches]

No, from what I understand, the guy who had it sent only the packs to the ebay seller who sold them for him. So I don't believe there were any pix of anything. I'm trying to picture what the machine looked like. His description talked about it having two "sides", one with the wackys and one with American Presidents packs.

So there is no evidence that a vending machine exists, correct?

[bandaches]

Wow, this story just gets more and more confusing. I was just corresponding with the ebay seller, and he told me the following:

 "He (the consignor) remembers picking up the vending machine at a flea market brand New in 1972/73. At first I was under the impression that the machine came with product in it, but now it seems that it did not, he remembers stopping at a Store on the way home with the machine and grabbing whatever Wax Packs they had on the counter and then sticking them inside, sealing the box where it sat for the last 40 years. 40+ 1972 Topps US Presidents and 44 1973 Wacky Packages Series III."

If that's really true, that would mean these are just normal 3rd series packs, and the fact that several of them seem to have one
sticker could just be some kind of anomaly. The fact that the number of packs closely approximates a nearly full wax box might
make this account plausible. I don't take any of this as gospel as it is all based on 40-year old recollections, but it is an interesting tidbit as far as determining the nature of these packs.

A prediction I made to myself was that no vending machine that sold wackys actually existed so this latest information I believe is perfectly on the mark.  I don't know that we folks in the hobby have killed enough packs to know what defines and anomaly.  I killed a series 2 pack and got 6 stickers.  My guess is that quality control was pretty bad and that there are plenty of packs with varying contents.  At the end of the day, trying to classify these packs as "different" from standard series 3 packs is going to prove to be a reach.

[slamjim]

A prediction I made to myself was that no vending machine that sold wackys actually existed so this latest information I believe is perfectly on the mark. 

You mean original series Wackys. There were mini stickers sold in vending machines in the 80s.

[bandaches]

You mean original series Wackys. There were mini stickers sold in vending machines in the 80s.

YEs, I am referring to the product described in this thread.

[Paul_Maul]

A prediction I made to myself was that no vending machine that sold wackys actually existed so this latest information I believe is perfectly on the mark.  I don't know that we folks in the hobby have killed enough packs to know what defines and anomaly.  I killed a series 2 pack and got 6 stickers.  My guess is that quality control was pretty bad and that there are plenty of packs with varying contents.  At the end of the day, trying to classify these packs as "different" from standard series 3 packs is going to prove to be a reach.

I agree, I plan on trying to weigh the packs I have just to see if there is a discernable difference, but I plan on considering all of them to be normal 3rd series packs at this point.

[Paul_Maul]

The more I think about this story the less it makes sense. If someone buys an empty "vending machine", why would it even
occur to them to fill it with wax packs of cards? I doubt the machine was made for that.

More likely to me is that the guy was a chronic collector of everything. He probably bought the machine, also bought a bunch of unopened packs, and figured "I'll throw them inside the machine to save space."

It really doesn't matter, these are legitimate, beautiful condition packs (probably the freshest early series packs I've ever seen). Whatever their history, I'm glad they finally surfaced.

The seller may still have five or so left, so if anyone wants one, now is the time!

[Playbug]

The more I think about this story the less it makes sense. If someone buys an empty "vending machine", why would it even
occur to them to fill it with wax packs of cards? I doubt the machine was made for that.

More likely to me is that the guy was a chronic collector of everything. He probably bought the machine, also bought a bunch of unopened packs, and figured "I'll throw them inside the machine to save space."

It really doesn't matter, these are legitimate, beautiful condition packs (probably the freshest early series packs I've ever seen). Whatever their history, I'm glad they finally surfaced.

The seller may still have five or so left, so if anyone wants one, now is the time!

Sounds like his story may be legit. I think we here on the forum are very cautious when it comes to scrutinizing these finds, if folks are trying to pull a fast one, which is good but, sounds like he may have just wanted to display the machine with some contents in it or possibly had thoughts of actually selling the packs he loaded them up with. If he is a collector of Wackys then I would be more cautious that he might be trying something suspicious, but if he is just a collector of everything then it is probably a true story. Does he remember the stores name? And is it still there? You could probably verify that way if possible, but seems to be a moot point anyway since the packs and contents are in such great condition.

[bandaches]

Sounds like his story may be legit. I think we here on the forum are very cautious when it comes to scrutinizing these finds, if folks are trying to pull a fast one, which is good but, sounds like he may have just wanted to display the machine with some contents in it or possibly had thoughts of actually selling the packs he loaded them up with. If he is a collector of Wackys then I would be more cautious that he might be trying something suspicious, but if he is just a collector of everything then it is probably a true story. Does he remember the stores name? And is it still there? You could probably verify that way if possible, but seems to be a moot point anyway since the packs and contents are in such great condition.

I don't recall anything in this story that says this vending machine was in a store.  Dave's final analysis is probably right on the money.  I trust Dave to ask the right sets of questions to really figure this out.

[Paul_Maul]

I don't recall anything in this story that says this vending machine was in a store.  Dave's final analysis is probably right on the money.  I trust Dave to ask the right sets of questions to really figure this out.

When the seller first mentioned that the consignor had filled the machine with packs bought from a store, I had a moment of suspicion that someone was concocting this to allay people's concern that the packs had only one sticker and were not "as good" as normal packs. But two things weigh against this in my mind:

1. The ebay seller has a good rep and seems very trustworthy
2. He had already sold the majority of the packs when he mentioned this detail, so there's really no benefit to him; in addition, he never mentioned it in any auction or sale, just in a private e-mail to me

It sounds more like the consignor is foggy on the details of his own actions, which is believable after 40 years.

[bandaches]

When the seller first mentioned that the consignor had filled the machine with packs bought from a store, I had a moment of suspicion that someone was concocting this to allay people's concern that the packs had only one sticker and were not "as good" as normal packs. But two things weigh against this in my mind:

1. The ebay seller has a good rep and seems very trustworthy
2. He had already sold the majority of the packs when he mentioned this detail, so there's really no benefit to him; in addition, he never mentioned it in any auction or sale, just in a private e-mail to me

It sounds more like the consignor is foggy on the details of his own actions, which is believable after 40 years.

I think the word "store" is being misused.  I have no doubt the seller bought the packs in a store, I think the misperception here is that this vending machine was positioned in a store as a standard vending machine and my sense is that didn't take place at all and this was nothing than a flea market collector who threw these packs in a vending machine for storage.  This was not in any way part of any vending machine rollout of wackys in stores.

[lucidjc]

I dont know much about vending, but didnt Topps make Vending Machine Boxes of sports cards? What were those machines? Couldnt they be set to dispence a pack? Like i said, i dont know but food for thought.

[lucidjc]

Oh, 1 other point. My very first pack of Wackys was a 3rd series pack. And it had only 1 sticker in the pack, (it was crackola). I really remember making a big stink about this cause my sisters pack had 2 stickers. (and by big stink i mean cry). lol           

Can anyone else remember their first pull?
By pull i mean Wacky!
And by Wacky i mean the stickers.
And by stickers i dont mean stuck together.

(insert puns) as needed