Wacky Packages Forum

Wacky Packages Discussion => General Wacky Packages Discussion => Topic started by: wackyman on March 12, 2010, 11:46:30 AM

Title: World Of Wackies...
Post by: wackyman on March 12, 2010, 11:46:30 AM
Ladies and Gentlemen..... Boys And Girls....Children of all ages,  I'm please to announce the grand opening of THE WORLD OF WACKIES (http://worldofwackies.com).

The site is aimed to be your #1 spot for everything Wacky Packages related and will be featuring ALL the various WP Series scans, info interviews and more!

I've been working on the site for the last 3 months or so in my free time and there is still quite a bit that needs to be added BUT I am content enough to open the doors and let in my fellow Wacky Community.

Originally W.O.W. had a forum like this one but since Brad stepped up and announced this forum before I announced mine, I have closed down my forum and integrated this forum into W.O.W (just click on 'The Fourm' link and you'll be right here on the forum :) )

Coming shortly as I can complete the tasks there will audio interviews, new articles, contests and much more!  I will be tying the site into this forum until Brad gets sick and tired of me lol  my plan and hope is that we can merge the two sites into one massive entity and provide the entire Wacky Packages community the best possible site!

Now, as new things can be confusing and even scary I'd like to break down the World Of Wackies for you and show you what the site offers you right now.....

When you first visit the site you will see a place where you can  Login in OR Register for a free account (your current login here will NOT work on the W.O.W site unless you register with that same  info, BUT if you click on The Forum link you may not have to login to the forum depending on how you have your internet settings configured (I myself stay logged in via my browser)

If you would like, feel free to create your free account,  that will allow you access to a few cool features on the site!

Once signed up and logged in you'll notice the main navigation system on the left of all pages, I'll break down a few of the features now:

(http://worldofwackies.com/images/navbar_01.jpg)  This is the link back to the main homepage where you will see the most current news items and important threads going on here in The Forum.

(http://worldofwackies.com/images/navbar_02.jpg) This link will open this forum inside of the W.O.W website.

(http://worldofwackies.com/images/navbar_03.jpg) This is the News Section (the same content that appears on the home page of W.O.W.)

(http://worldofwackies.com/images/navbar_04.jpg) This is where you will find scans of ALL of the Wacky Packages Series, Each series is represented by it's box (if I have scans for them lol), click on a box to go to that series's photo gallery.

(http://worldofwackies.com/images/navbar_05.jpg) This section is where you will find ALL the info on the various Wacky Series, Artists, and more.... This section is a work in progress and will be changing as I fill it with more content.

(http://worldofwackies.com/images/navbar_08.jpg) Here you will find various Surveys created by YOU the community, I will be setting it up where you can create and add your own survey, but until then let me know what types of surveys you want to see there!

(http://worldofwackies.com/images/navbar_09.jpg) EXTRA EXTRA READ ALL ABOUT IT! This is the SUBMIT NEWS section where YOU, that's right YOU get to submit your own wacky related news stories (Registered members only) simply click on that link, write up your news item and hit submit,  once your news item is approved (just to make sure it's appropriate and not 'spam') it will be displayed proudly on the main page and news sections of the W.O.W site!

(http://worldofwackies.com/images/navbar_12.jpg) Other Sites:  Do YOU have a wacky related website OR a non wacky related website,blog, facebook, myspace, Youtube site you'd like to share?  this is where you can add a link to your site (Registered Members only) I will be adding a number of categories to this section later on today,  and will move any links to where they need to go when I get that done.

(http://worldofwackies.com/images/navbar_13.jpg) This is where YOU can help spread the word about W.O.W and The Forum! If you have your own website, blog or social network site you can pick on of the many styles and sized banners or buttons and add a link to us on your site,  simply pick the banner or button that will best fit your site and copy the code provided into your site.

That's about it,   hope you all enjoy the site.

-Jay-
Title: Re: World Of Wackies...
Post by: Sue Mee on March 12, 2010, 12:46:03 PM
This is awesome!!!!!  Excellent job Jay!!
Title: Re: World Of Wackies...
Post by: Crakola Crayons on March 12, 2010, 01:01:52 PM
Jay, I'm getting the following when I click on the photo and try to enter:  Unknown User-Agent - You are banned from this site due to a unknown user-agent.

Any clue what that means?
Title: Re: World Of Wackies...
Post by: slamjim on March 12, 2010, 01:06:10 PM
Fantastic! This looks like the perfect site for all Wacky fans.
Title: Re: World Of Wackies...
Post by: Sue Mee on March 12, 2010, 01:17:29 PM
Jay, I'm getting the following when I click on the photo and try to enter:  Unknown User-Agent - You are banned from this site due to a unknown user-agent.

Any clue what that means?


Martin, that's the new zero strike system being implemented.  (just kidding, of course)
Title: Re: World Of Wackies...
Post by: Crakola Crayons on March 12, 2010, 01:25:14 PM
Kris, LOL.  I am wondering if it has anything to do with my computer being on Windows 7.  I'll try it from my laptop later tonight (when my son boots me off the family desktop so he can play Runescape).
Title: Re: World Of Wackies...
Post by: wackyman on March 12, 2010, 01:27:50 PM
Jay, I'm getting the following when I click on the photo and try to enter:  Unknown User-Agent - You are banned from this site due to a unknown user-agent.

Any clue what that means?

Try accessing the site directly:  http://www.worldofwackies.com/index.php  and let me know what happens then.

I honestly have no idea why you would get that type of error...   user agent would have to do with your browser, but again no clue why that would be happening.

-Jay-
Title: Re: World Of Wackies...
Post by: RonZombie on March 12, 2010, 01:36:22 PM
It's getting better every day! ;D
Title: Re: World Of Wackies...
Post by: Crakola Crayons on March 12, 2010, 01:36:23 PM
Same error.  I am on Internet Explorer running on Windows 7.  Maybe something in Windows 7 is blocking it?  Or perhaps I have a pop-up blocker on my IE?  I'll try another computer later.
Title: Re: World Of Wackies...
Post by: Gurgle on March 12, 2010, 01:37:18 PM
Try accessing the site directly:  http://www.worldofwackies.com/index.php  and let me know what happens then.

I honestly have no idea why you would get that type of error...   user agent would have to do with your browser, but again no clue why that would be happening.

-Jay-
I'm having the same problem and the direct link didn't help. I'm using Safari, if that makes a difference.
Title: Re: World Of Wackies...
Post by: BumChex on March 12, 2010, 01:48:28 PM
I'm having the same problem and the direct link didn't help. I'm using Safari, if that makes a difference.

That's strange. It works great for me with Safari on my Mac. Gurgle, you must be a Mac guy also.
Title: Re: World Of Wackies...
Post by: BumChex on March 12, 2010, 01:51:09 PM
That's strange. It works great for me with Safari on my Mac. Gurgle, you must be a Mac guy also.

both links work in Firefox. The top link works in Safari but the direct link give the user agent error.
Title: Re: World Of Wackies...
Post by: BustedFinger on March 12, 2010, 01:54:36 PM
Very cool Jay!  I said it on Brad's "Thank You" thread and I'll say it again here.  This is something that should have happened a long time ago.  I think it is very healthy for the hobby that their be more than just one site to go to.
Title: Re: World Of Wackies...
Post by: BustedFinger on March 12, 2010, 01:55:32 PM
I'm sure there are plenty of us who would be happy to provide scans for any of the images that you need.
Title: Re: World Of Wackies...
Post by: Gurgle on March 12, 2010, 02:12:50 PM
both links work in Firefox. The top link works in Safari but the direct link give the user agent error.
Then it's something other than the browser. I still can't get in.
Title: Re: World Of Wackies...
Post by: wackyman on March 12, 2010, 02:17:25 PM
Thanks Everyone....

I THINK... I got the user agent issue solved, anyone who had that problem PLEASE refresh your pages and try again


As for scans...  here is a list of what I need

1979 Topps test series (everything)

1986 Topps Stickers (cards, pack, box)

The plush toys (both series)

The Shirts (from 10again)

any scans of posters, dealer sheets etc

scans of book covers, media spotings (newspapers, magazines, in stores, movies etc)

(Slamjim is going to get me artwork, and some other stuff, once I get his stuff I'll update my list accordingly)

I have ALL of the ANS base cards, packs and boxes I just need to assemble and upload them and add them to their respective galleries, BUT I need the following for ANS:

ANS  1 - 6 All chase cards (sorted by series) magnets, motion, peels, tattoos, build your owns, promo cards etc etc

Same thing for Flashback I and Flashback II (chase cards)

-Jay-
Title: Re: World Of Wackies...
Post by: Gurgle on March 12, 2010, 02:28:15 PM
Very cool. It works now. You may want to view it in Safari as the page seems way wide.
Title: Re: World Of Wackies...
Post by: wackyman on March 12, 2010, 02:48:44 PM
Very cool. It works now. You may want to view it in Safari as the page seems way wide.

I don't Have Safari on any of my computers actually,  but I'll have my nephew bring his Macbook over so I can check it out, and see if there is any kind of tweaks  I can do to make it smoother in Safari.

-Jay-
Title: Re: World Of Wackies...
Post by: deadpresidentsvisa on March 12, 2010, 03:08:00 PM
Jay I have an extra 1986 set around here {studio} some where if you want it
Title: Re: World Of Wackies...
Post by: wackyman on March 12, 2010, 03:18:42 PM
Jay I have an extra 1986 set around here {studio} some where if you want it

I have in my mancave 4 sets of the 86,  I just have not gotten around scanning them lol  sooo If you have scans I will DEFF take them and put them up :)

-Jay-
Title: Re: World Of Wackies...
Post by: Crakola Crayons on March 12, 2010, 03:41:10 PM
Wackyman Jay - it is working for me now too!  Very nice.
Title: Re: World Of Wackies...
Post by: BumChex on March 14, 2010, 02:10:12 PM

I'm really looking forward to the new W.O.W. image gallery because it will be nice to finally have a centralized location for the Post Cards and Old Schools.   I would even go so far as to suggest re-opening W.O.W. asap with just those galleries to start and fill in the old stuff as time allows. It doesn't make since to have a Wacky Gallery and leave stuff out that is wildly popular with collectors. I hope there will be a home for all of these post card and old school sketch cards too. It will also be an opportunity to display larger sizes than what is available on other forums.  Seeing these cards in large format is a great way to better appreciate the artwork.

I'm actually going to put the site back up in the next hour or so (I'm  out in the garage having a cig right now) I'm going to pull EVERYTHING except for the Old School Related stuff EVEN THOUGH The  ANS Stuff was NOT from Greg's site,  I'm going to fire up the scanners  and pull out MY Boxes, packs, etc and scan it all myself and I will add it back to the W.O.W. site in the next week as I have to get back to my day job 2morrow so my time will be a bit limited this coming week.

-Jay-
Title: Re: World Of Wackies...
Post by: BustedFinger on March 23, 2010, 04:31:08 AM
I see that greg has registered www.worldofwackys.com (http://www.worldofwackys.com) and has it pointing to his site now.  I didn't even realize that Jay had spelled it Wackies in his domain name.
Title: Re: World Of Wackies...
Post by: BumChex on March 23, 2010, 06:57:06 AM
I see that greg has registered www.worldofwackys.com (http://www.worldofwackys.com) and has it pointing to his site now.  I didn't even realize that Jay had spelled it Wackies in his domain name.

I think Jay should change the URL completely to something like 'Wackypackgallery.com' or 'wackypackagesarchive.com'. Something along those lines.
Title: Re: World Of Wackies...
Post by: BustedFinger on March 23, 2010, 07:24:30 AM
I think Jay should change the URL completely to something like 'Wackypackgallery.com' or 'wackypackagesarchive.com'. Something along those lines.
Better check with Paul before using gallery in the name!   :P
Title: Re: World Of Wackies...
Post by: Crakola Crayons on March 23, 2010, 09:07:39 AM
I see that greg has registered www.worldofwackys.com (http://www.worldofwackys.com) and has it pointing to his site now.  I didn't even realize that Jay had spelled it Wackies in his domain name.

I saw that too.  I am not surprised by that action at all, given the debate over the spelling of the plural over on the other forum.
Title: Re: World Of Wackies...
Post by: bandaches on March 23, 2010, 02:28:53 PM
I see that greg has registered www.worldofwackys.com (http://www.worldofwackys.com) and has it pointing to his site now.  I didn't even realize that Jay had spelled it Wackies in his domain name.
I thought greg was all about embracing competition and rival websites.  Why would he have a need to grab the URL sister's of rival websites?
Title: Re: World Of Wackies...
Post by: wackyman on March 23, 2010, 03:57:40 PM
I thought greg was all about embracing competition and rival websites.  Why would he have a need to grab the URL sister's of rival websites?

I can only guess it was some sort of 'revenge fantasy'

I do find it funny as all hell though, but I guess IF he really feels that I'm such an evil bad horrible guy, who was trying to single handedly destroy both his business and the entire hobby then spending $10.00 on a domain name (that IF I wanted in the first place I would have already bought it) Then more  power to him.

I picked the name as is for good reasons,  it had nothing really to do with whether or not fans of the hobby USE that spelling or not,  but it was MORE of making sure my domain name did NOT infringe on Topps's trademarks, copyrights and or brands.

The G Man has not detoured me in the slightest, it WILL take me a few months to intagrate the new stuff I want to have going over at W.O.W. (Not scans I'm talking features) cause I'm pretty busy with my 'day job' and have to play catch up and then I have to raise a bit of extra cash to have my coders make some scripts and toys for the W.O.W. site ;)

There's also allot more to W.O.W. going on behind the scenes I'll share some of those things as they get farther along.

-Jay-
Title: Re: World Of Wackies...
Post by: Plan 9 on March 23, 2010, 07:17:22 PM
I thought greg was all about embracing competition and rival websites.  Why would he have a need to grab the URL sister's of rival websites?

Maybe because the sister tried to capitalize on Greg's blood and sweat.
Title: Re: World Of Wackies...
Post by: wackyman on March 23, 2010, 07:31:17 PM
Maybe because the sister tried to capitalize on Greg's blood and sweat.

lol I'm no sister,   in fact I'm not even anyone's brother lmao

and for me to 'capitalize' on anything I'd need to have some sort of ads running, or be selling something.

He bought it solely to 'teach me a lesson' but the teacher failed to realize that IF I wanted that domain I would have snagged it too, I bought about 10 wacky related domains the day I grabbed the W.O.W. domain, only one is in use at the moment.

I damn near snagged up worldofdipshits.com cause he kept calling W.O.W. that for like 3 days straight,  I was gonna buy it and redirect the traffic to his site,  BUT even at $10.00 per year it was not worth it lol

-Jay-
Title: Re: World Of Wackies...
Post by: Bum_and_Mabel on March 23, 2010, 07:55:23 PM
and for me to 'capitalize' on anything I'd need to have some sort of ads running, or be selling something.
What do you mean? W.O.W. is crawling with ads.
Title: Re: World Of Wackies...
Post by: wackyman on March 23, 2010, 08:22:10 PM
What do you mean? W.O.W. is crawling with ads.

What I mean by 'ads' are:

(1) Something being displayed that I'm being paid to display

(2) something that IF you click, and buy I get a % of that sale (Affiliate Ads)

I guess you could say that W.O.W. is crawling with 'ads' IF

(1) you are talking about the front page news  about Old School, Binders, etc but I make no money from any of that stuff,

(2) The actual content of the cards themselves that are parodies of actual products ;)

Oh and that Amazon block on the right side of the page,  I guess I do kind of make money from that,  but It such a small amount that IF I actually get a payout from them I have it setup to go into Amazon gift cards and I'll just use that for a prize to give away.

-Jay-
Title: Re: World Of Wackies...
Post by: Bum_and_Mabel on March 23, 2010, 08:28:35 PM
What I mean by 'ads' are:

(1) Something being displayed that I'm being paid to display

(2) something that IF you click, and buy I get a % of that sale (Affiliate Ads)

I guess you could say that W.O.W. is crawling with 'ads' IF

(1) you are talking about the front page news  about Old School, Binders, etc but I make no money from any of that stuff,

(2) The actual content of the cards themselves that are parodies of actual products ;)

Oh and that Amazon block on the right side of the page,  I guess I do kind of make money from that,  but It such a small amount that IF I actually get a payout from them I have it setup to go into Amazon gift cards and I'll just use that for a prize to give away.

-Jay-
Yes; by "ads," I was referring to the "ads."
Title: Re: World Of Wackies...
Post by: bandaches on March 23, 2010, 08:29:15 PM
Maybe because the sister tried to capitalize on Greg's blood and sweat.
Last I checked, WOW was rid of greg's content after his first day of whining about it.  greg bought the sister URLs AFTER WOW was rid of his content as it seems as usual, greg is battling a war that only exists in his mind.....
Title: Re: World Of Wackies...
Post by: Bum_and_Mabel on March 23, 2010, 08:35:55 PM
Last I checked, WOW was rid of greg's content after his first day of whining about it.  greg bought the sister URLs AFTER WOW was rid of his content as it seems as usual, greg is battling a war that only exists in his mind.....
Can't resist sticking my hands in this tar baby:

Greg slams Brad and Jay for "competing" with him, as though competition were bad, and beneath Greg. If that were true, he wouldn't have purchased that domain name. It does Greg no good except that it might do Jay some harm, however small.

("Queeg"!)
Title: Re: World Of Wackies...
Post by: wackyman on March 23, 2010, 08:40:32 PM
Last I checked, WOW was rid of greg's content after his first day of whining about it.  greg bought the sister URLs AFTER WOW was rid of his content as it seems as usual, greg is battling a war that only exists in his mind.....

Correct, right now W.O.W ONLY features what Greg's site does NOT have,  Oldschool, the 86 'test' series and a slew of odds & ends from the gallery thanks to Paul :)

I have ANS1 - ANS6 ready to go up, but I wanted to hold off on that until I got a few new features coded and tested first (kind of takes higher priority then stuff you can find other places)

I'm to the point where I don't think I want any of the OS stuff on the site for now,  I'll stick to the new stuff and the stuff that was lacking on Greg's site.

we have bigger plans for W.O.W. and we need to focus on that and not worry about anyone whining about 'stealing their content' and I fear that no matter where I get any OS stuff from it will trigger someone to come starting shiz and we just don't have time for that!

And your 100% right Ernie, and IF I had a cookie I'd give it to you as a prize lol

-Jay-
Title: Re: World Of Wackies...
Post by: wackyman on March 23, 2010, 08:44:08 PM
Can't resist sticking my hands in this tar baby:

Greg slams Brad and Jay for "competing" with him, as though competition were bad, and beneath Greg. If that were true, he wouldn't have purchased that domain name. It does Greg no good except that it might do Jay some harm, however small.

("Queeg"!)

100% correct, EXCEPT buying that domain did ZERO harm (minus the $10.00 he lost by buying it lol)  I thought long and hard before I snagged the version I used, and as I said before I had good reasons behind getting the spelling i did get.

I also got other domains that will come into play as W.O.W grows and new features are added,   features that will need their own domain name BUT will be tied back directly to W.O.W.

Think of W.O.W. as the "hub" of all the other sites that will encompass it ;)

I wish I could spill some of the upcoming beans, but until all the ducks are in a row AND papers have gone back and forth I gotta keep my mouth shut :(

-Jay- 
Title: Re: World Of Wackies...
Post by: Bum_and_Mabel on March 23, 2010, 08:53:11 PM
100% correct, EXCEPT buying that domain did ZERO harm (minus the $10.00 he lost by buying it lol)  ...
Just to be clear: I was referring to Greg's apparent intentions, not their effects. Glad to hear his ploy was a swing and a miss.
Title: Re: World Of Wackies...
Post by: wackyman on March 23, 2010, 08:54:28 PM
Just to be clear: I was referring to Greg's apparent intentions, not their effects. Glad to hear his ploy was a swing and a miss.

I understood :)

-Jay-
Title: Re: World Of Wackies...
Post by: Fanatical_and_Sickly on March 23, 2010, 09:12:31 PM
Can't resist sticking my hands in this tar baby:

Greg slams Brad and Jay for "competing" with him, as though competition were bad, and beneath Greg. If that were true, he wouldn't have purchased that domain name. It does Greg no good except that it might do Jay some harm, however small.

("Queeg"!)
no, he slammed them for using his images on a competing site. He doesn't care about competing sites, just the use of his images on them.
Title: Re: World Of Wackies...
Post by: Plan 9 on March 23, 2010, 09:23:43 PM
Last I checked, WOW was rid of greg's content after his first day of whining about it.  greg bought the sister URLs AFTER WOW was rid of his content as it seems as usual, greg is battling a war that only exists in his mind.....
The only reason I brought it up again is because we've still got this guy in our circle who can't admit he did something ethically perverse. Yes, he removed the stuff from his site so he knows he did something wrong. But instead of admitting it he tries to label anyone who speaks up as a Greg worshipper. If he even had a clue who's who around here he wouldn't be so quick to make such naive statements. I'm speaking up in support of right and wrong. Until Jay admits what he did was ethically wrong he is still the same character he was yesterday, last month and last year. I don't think anybody anywhere who put so much effort into building a site like Greg's would ever agree to let some stranger come along and steal it under the pretense of "reconstruction". Now Jay wants to leave out the original series stuff. Why? Because he can't accomplish it without the intense efforts that Greg put into it or let someone else hand it to him on a silver platter. It's that effort that Jay has no respect for and tried to steal. He tries to cloud the issue with arguments about who owns the images when it's clear to any honest person that it's a diversion from the real crime. I'm curious to know what other sites this guy built. I'll be we could then track down the site he swiped the material from. Or has he ever even built a site before World of Wackiiiieees?
Title: Re: World Of Wackies...
Post by: Bum_and_Mabel on March 23, 2010, 09:33:26 PM
no, he slammed them for using his images on a competing site. He doesn't care about competing sites, just the use of his images on them.
I thought perhaps I should quote the exact passage I was referring to, should anyone counter that I was misrepresenting the facts. (I recalled this passage, its gist anyway, because it struck me as hypocritical.) It will take me a while to find the passage, but if you like, I can PM it to you, keeping in mind that your reading and mine could still differ. Perhaps we can leave it at, "Greg said something I interpreted such-and-such way, and then did such-and-such"?

Also: was Brad, as you say, involved in using Greg's images on another site? Honestly, I didn't think he was, but maybe I don't have the facts.

Also: I'm not defending anyone using Greg's images for their own site. That in itself is pretty low in my book. I appreciate the time he put into the scanning and the Photoshopping.

...

EDIT: Might as well get this over with:

char_boy: "They've taken this as some kind of petty competition, which shows what motivates them.  If I had tried to compete with these people it would have been child's play, obviously, but I sent everybody to brat's forum." (http://wackypackages.org/forum/messages.php?mode=&a=3&t=11&mn=26&stealth=)

My point was that Greg's buying www.worldofwackys.com struck me squarely as the sort of "petty competition" he claims he's not engaging in. "Petty," because it does him no real good except as a potential impediment to someone else. Naturally, some might disagree with that conclusion, but I didn't pull it out of thin air. (It seems silly to belabor the point, as this is but one instance of rancorous behavior among many, on both sides, so I will belabor it no further.)
Title: Re: World Of Wackies...
Post by: wackyman on March 23, 2010, 09:38:22 PM
The only reason I brought it up again is because we've still got this guy in our circle who can't admit he did something ethically perverse. Yes, he removed the stuff from his site so he knows he did something wrong. But instead of admitting it he tries to label anyone who speaks up as a Greg worshipper. If he even had a clue who's who around here he wouldn't be so quick to make such naive statements. I'm speaking up in support of right and wrong. Until Jay admits what he did was ethically wrong he is still the same character he was yesterday, last month and last year. I don't think anybody anywhere who put so much effort into building a site like Greg's would ever agree to let some stranger come along and steal it under the pretense of "reconstruction". Now Jay wants to leave out the original series stuff. Why? Because he can't accomplish it without the intense efforts that Greg put into it or let someone else hand it to him on a silver platter. It's that effort that Jay has no respect for and tried to steal. He tries to cloud the issue with arguments about who owns the images when it's clear to any honest person that it's a diversion from the real crime. I'm curious to know what other sites this guy built. I'll be we could then track down the site he swiped the material from. Or has he ever even built a site before World of Wackiiiieees?

wow, you are WAY off there dude,  I don't even know whyI waste time trying to defend myself for  really nothing,  but...

I've not labeled ANYONE as anything,  not in public NOR in private,  saying that I do, did whatever, that is an outright LIE,  and it's sad that anyone has to lie over such stupid stuff :(

The reason I choose to omit the OS right now is because as I said.. I don't have time to run 'damage control'  when Greg decides that it's  STILL 'his images' he already did it with my first runs of ANS,  he claimed I removed all his 'shadows'  he even said it, AS I WAS TYPING THAT HE WOULD PULL THAT.

If I don't have stuff on W.O.W. that Greg has, I remove 100% of ANY CLAIM / FIGHTS from him

I have had quite a few people offer me  scans from the OS but I've told them 'thanks, but lets hold off for now'  I have much bigger plans for W.O.W.  and not having any of the OS on the site will not make one bit of difference.

Last but not least, Greg had no claims,  I pulled those images NOT because I was wrong, but because I did not nor do I have the time to deal  with someone like Greg,  When W.O.W. is completed  and up and running it will be used as a demo site for Topps and other companies, featuring stuff that is not available anywhere else, and it will give those companies a chance to see the software and features in action, and it will give the W.O.W. community some nifty things to play with.

As for other site's I've built, I really can't count them,  over the past 10+ years I've built sites and graphics for ford, Nissan, Holiday Inn, record companies, NPO's and many more.  I'm not a thief, never have been never will be,  and I would ask only what I've stated publicly both here and on Greg's forum.....

Don't listen to Greg,   don't listen to me,  do your own research, and see exactly WHO owns any and all images featuring  wacky packages, no matter what anyone does to the image it STILL is owned 100% by TOPPS and TOPPS ALONE.....

IF those full box photos that Greg claimed "I have determined to be my own creations" were true WHY did he get stopped from selling the poster he made with those boxes,  CLEARLY if Greg indeed owned OR could claim ownership to those images he could have sold them.

Common sense people,  sheep belong in the meadow NOT online.

-Jay-
Title: Re: World Of Wackies...
Post by: Fanatical_and_Sickly on March 23, 2010, 09:39:39 PM
I thought perhaps I should quote the exact passage I was referring to, should anyone counter that I was misrepresenting the facts. (I recalled this passage, its gist anyway, because it struck me as hypocritical.) It will take me a while to find the passage, but if you like, I can PM it to you, keeping in mind that your reading and mine may could still differ. Perhaps we can leave it at, "Greg said something I interpreted such-and-such way, and then did such-and-such"?

Also: was Brad, as you say, involved in using Greg's images on another site? Honestly, I didn't think he was, but maybe I don't have the facts.
I may not have read that passage you're referring to, as I'm still catching up on the threads. 2 weeks behind, and still working to read it all. If you run across it, you can PM it. No big deal though.

and you're right. you wrote Brad and Jay, and I automatically used "them" in response, but really just meant to refer to Jay.
Title: Re: World Of Wackies...
Post by: Duznt on March 23, 2010, 09:42:14 PM
He doesn't care about competing sites, just the use of his images on them.

He cared enough to register the other WOW domain.
Title: Re: World Of Wackies...
Post by: Plan 9 on March 23, 2010, 10:25:29 PM
wow, you are WAY off there dude,  I don't even know whyI waste time trying to defend myself for  really nothing,  but...

I've not labeled ANYONE as anything,  not in public NOR in private,  saying that I do, did whatever, that is an outright LIE,  and it's sad that anyone has to lie over such stupid stuff :(

The reason I choose to omit the OS right now is because as I said.. I don't have time to run 'damage control'  when Greg decides that it's  STILL 'his images' he already did it with my first runs of ANS,  he claimed I removed all his 'shadows'  he even said it, AS I WAS TYPING THAT HE WOULD PULL THAT.

If I don't have stuff on W.O.W. that Greg has, I remove 100% of ANY CLAIM / FIGHTS from him

I have had quite a few people offer me  scans from the OS but I've told them 'thanks, but lets hold off for now'  I have much bigger plans for W.O.W.  and not having any of the OS on the site will not make one bit of difference.

Last but not least, Greg had no claims,  I pulled those images NOT because I was wrong, but because I did not nor do I have the time to deal  with someone like Greg,  When W.O.W. is completed  and up and running it will be used as a demo site for Topps and other companies, featuring stuff that is not available anywhere else, and it will give those companies a chance to see the software and features in action, and it will give the W.O.W. community some nifty things to play with.

As for other site's I've built, I really can't count them,  over the past 10+ years I've built sites and graphics for ford, Nissan, Holiday Inn, record companies, NPO's and many more.  I'm not a thief, never have been never will be,  and I would ask only what I've stated publicly both here and on Greg's forum.....

Don't listen to Greg,   don't listen to me,  do your own research, and see exactly WHO owns any and all images featuring  wacky packages, no matter what anyone does to the image it STILL is owned 100% by TOPPS and TOPPS ALONE.....

IF those full box photos that Greg claimed "I have determined to be my own creations" were true WHY did he get stopped from selling the poster he made with those boxes,  CLEARLY if Greg indeed owned OR could claim ownership to those images he could have sold them.

Common sense people,  sheep belong in the meadow NOT online.

-Jay-

There you go again trumpeting your point about the legality of the images. Nobody is bringing that up but you. The legalities are completely irrelevant. You are acting completely blind to the EFFORTS you attempted to STEAL. Then you end your post with another comment about us being sheep after you just denied making such comments.
Title: Re: World Of Wackies...
Post by: wackyman on March 23, 2010, 10:45:27 PM
There you go again trumpeting your point about the legality of the images. Nobody is bringing that up but you. The legalities are completely irrelevant. You are acting completely blind to the EFFORTS you attempted to STEAL. Then you end your post with another comment about us being sheep after you just denied making such comments.

One can not 'steal'  something that does not belong to the person who claims to have been 'stolen' from.

THAT is why I keep bringing up the actual ownership issue.

And I might just be tired,or just  getting completely tired of  this entire issue but since when did the word 'sheep' mean "greg worshiper" ?  cause you claim I keep labeling everyone who speaks against me "greg worshipers"

I used the term Sheep in prefect relevance here, some people are coming here blindly and  attacking me (actually very very few people) they are clinging to a false fact / misinformation touted by Greg.  that is a sheep mentality nothing more nothing less,  IF people were to actually think from themselves and do a bit of digging on their own, they would find HUNDREDS of websites that have the SAME EXACT IMAGES that are on Greg's site,  NO mention of where the images came from,  and SOME of the sites are DIRECTLY COMPETING with Greg's site by selling stuff.

The ONLY reason Greg came after me is he assumed (quite wrongly) that W.O.W.  was tied to the mass exodus of his forum, when in reality W.O.W. was registered and started in January, where as this forum and  Greg's latest meltdown is less then 3 weeks  old.

I even pointed out and posted links  from google and bing that showed TONS of 'greg's images' but he never once addressed them, 

did those sites not do the exact same thing I am accused of?

But I'm singled out, and put inside a cyber dunk tank, I'm vilified and attacked for no real good reason.

The question  IS in fact a matter of legality and nothing more,  as I said in the start of this post, If Greg does not truly OWN the images  there was nothing for me to 'steal' and so,  there was, is no issue.

There will still be those few who attack, no matter what becomes  of W.O.W. and IF the events of the past few weeks never happened,   none of this would have happened either,  I'm just the whipping boy for all the people leaving Greg's site.

IF anyone turns on their brain and actually READS,   i mean REALLY READS all  those posts on this forum made  by Greg they would see how stupid all of this really truly is.

-Jay-
Title: Re: World Of Wackies...
Post by: Plan 9 on March 24, 2010, 06:02:31 AM
We know all about the Wacky Pack sites. We're the hobbyists, in case you didn't notice. Hundreds of sites stole Greg's complete collection of images? Try naming three. So you justify your theft by comparing it to the same actions of other thieves? You think because Topps owns the images that you can wait for someone else to spend years finding prime examples, scanning them and uploading them as if they're doing it just for your site? Try doing the work yourself and you might get a clue of what you did wrong. You base your innocence on how many people speak up about it? So if nobody catches you doing something wrong then you haven't done anything wrong? Greg's arguments are not the point here. If you'll rip off one of our sites then who's next? I had plans for a website about the art of Wacky Packages but knowing you're around completely killed that project. You're no whipping boy. You don't know shit about the politics of Greg's forum and you were irrelevant before you pulled your little stunt. All you had to do was admit what you did was wrong and you'd probably never have heard another word about it. But you maintain your innocence. You lack integrity in a big way and it's going to suck when Brad or anyone else here gets screwed by you again. If you have some grand secret explanation for trying to steal ten years of someone's time and labor, at the worst possible time in their life, then present it now. Otherwise you're branded pal.
Title: Re: World Of Wackies...
Post by: wackyman on March 24, 2010, 06:16:43 AM
We know all about the Wacky Pack sites. We're the hobbyists, in case you didn't notice. Hundreds of sites stole Greg's complete collection of images? Try naming three. So you justify your theft by comparing it to the same actions of other thieves? You think because Topps owns the images that you can wait for someone else to spend years finding prime examples, scanning them and uploading them as if they're doing it just for your site? Try doing the work yourself and you might get a clue of what you did wrong. You base your innocence on how many people speak up about it? So if nobody catches you doing something wrong then you haven't done anything wrong? Greg's arguments are not the point here. If you'll rip off one of our sites then who's next? I had plans for a website about the art of Wacky Packages but knowing you're around completely killed that project. You're no whipping boy. You don't know shit about the politics of Greg's forum and you were irrelevant before you pulled your little stunt. All you had to do was admit what you did was wrong and you'd probably never have heard another word about it. But you maintain your innocence. You lack integrity in a big way and it's going to suck when Brad or anyone else here gets screwed by you again. If you have some grand secret explanation for trying to steal ten years of someone's time and labor, at the worst possible time in their life, then present it now. Otherwise you're branded pal.

You know what, I'm done with this subject,

all you tiny few are doing is stretching the story more and more with every single post you make, embelishing the hell out of everything and totally twisting the truth and facts  of the matter.

NOW, I 'stole' EVERY IMAGE (it was not even a quarter of images from Greg's site) and the number of years spent scanning the images started at 4 (per Greg's own words) has now jumped up to 10 years.

I swear... you can't write stuff like this,  you just can't make up the madness that has gone down in this thread, the other thread, and the threads on Greg's desert forum.

I'm just going to ignore the few negative posts that will continue to pop up, cause I know you speak for a very few in this hobby, the bulk of the people know I did nothing wrong, and there was no malice behind my actual actions,  you and a select few are doing anything and everything you can to twist and turn the real story into the total opposite of what really went down.

But, I guess do whatever you feel the need to do to get your kicks, but from here on out you'll be doing it without responses from me.

you really are just like Greg though with your posts,  Greg takes a sentence from like this:

"If YOU continue to slander me and defaming my name in public forums I WILL take legal action"

And Greg touts to anyone who will listen:

"Do you know how stupid you look coming here and threatening to sue EVERY forum member...."

You guys are real good at twisting the truth,  but I wonder,   how many others actually buy into your twisted words?

-Jay-

Title: Re: World Of Wackies...
Post by: BumChex on March 24, 2010, 07:02:40 AM
I thought perhaps I should quote the exact passage I was referring to, should anyone counter that I was misrepresenting the facts. (I recalled this passage, its gist anyway, because it struck me as hypocritical.) It will take me a while to find the passage, but if you like, I can PM it to you, keeping in mind that your reading and mine could still differ. Perhaps we can leave it at, "Greg said something I interpreted such-and-such way, and then did such-and-such"?

Also: was Brad, as you say, involved in using Greg's images on another site? Honestly, I didn't think he was, but maybe I don't have the facts.

Also: I'm not defending anyone using Greg's images for their own site. That in itself is pretty low in my book. I appreciate the time he put into the scanning and the Photoshopping.

...

EDIT: Might as well get this over with:

char_boy: "They've taken this as some kind of petty competition, which shows what motivates them.  If I had tried to compete with these people it would have been child's play, obviously, but I sent everybody to brat's forum." (http://wackypackages.org/forum/messages.php?mode=&a=3&t=11&mn=26&stealth=)

My point was that Greg's buying www.worldofwackys.com struck me squarely as the sort of "petty competition" he claims he's not engaging in. "Petty," because it does him no real good except as a potential impediment to someone else. Naturally, some might disagree with that conclusion, but I didn't pull it out of thin air. (It seems silly to belabor the point, as this is but one instance of rancorous behavior among many, on both sides, so I will belabor it no further.)

Yep, let's move on. This is all ancient history. This is all a new beginning for everyone.
Title: Re: World Of Wackies...
Post by: Paul_Maul on March 24, 2010, 10:11:13 AM
The only reason I brought it up again is because we've still got this guy in our circle who can't admit he did something ethically perverse. Yes, he removed the stuff from his site so he knows he did something wrong. But instead of admitting it he tries to label anyone who speaks up as a Greg worshipper. If he even had a clue who's who around here he wouldn't be so quick to make such naive statements. I'm speaking up in support of right and wrong. Until Jay admits what he did was ethically wrong he is still the same character he was yesterday, last month and last year. I don't think anybody anywhere who put so much effort into building a site like Greg's would ever agree to let some stranger come along and steal it under the pretense of "reconstruction". Now Jay wants to leave out the original series stuff. Why? Because he can't accomplish it without the intense efforts that Greg put into it or let someone else hand it to him on a silver platter. It's that effort that Jay has no respect for and tried to steal. He tries to cloud the issue with arguments about who owns the images when it's clear to any honest person that it's a diversion from the real crime. I'm curious to know what other sites this guy built. I'll be we could then track down the site he swiped the material from. Or has he ever even built a site before World of Wackiiiieees?

Wow, what an amazing job of highlighting the pertinent issues and un-clouding the attempts at obfuscation. Bravissimo!
Title: Re: World Of Wackies...
Post by: Paul_Maul on March 24, 2010, 10:20:11 AM

NOW, I 'stole' EVERY IMAGE (it was not even a quarter of images from Greg's site) and the number of years spent scanning the images started at 4 (per Greg's own words) has now jumped up to 10 years.


The main mystery is why you continue to play semantic word games. Who knows the exact number of man-hours spent creating the aggregate of the pictures on Greg's site? They have been created over a time period beginning whenever he started and ending now. That's the 10  years.

Do you have any idea how much work it took to hunt down examples of over 50 series 1-16 unopened pack variations? The scanning is a miniscule tip of the iceberg in the time it took to create these images. This is why the copyright ownership issue has been and continues to be such a bogus excuse. Like Mark said.
Title: Re: World Of Wackies...
Post by: Bum_and_Mabel on March 24, 2010, 02:46:04 PM
Yep, let's move on. This is all ancient history. This is all a new beginning for everyone.
Indeed. 
I think you are doing a great job.
Title: Re: World Of Wackies...
Post by: bandaches on March 24, 2010, 03:04:48 PM
no, he slammed them for using his images on a competing site. He doesn't care about competing sites, just the use of his images on them.
....and to repeat again......greg's images have been down for some time yet he is still waging a war in this area which included buying a sister URL he could not possibly have ever thought of buying until WOW came along.....this suggests greg is AGAINST the existance of WOW and is not supporting it even though it now has all of the pieces greg is sorely missing....so I stand by my statement that he does NOT endorse competing websites like he claims he does.
Title: Re: World Of Wackies...
Post by: bandaches on March 24, 2010, 03:10:28 PM
The only reason I brought it up again is because we've still got this guy in our circle who can't admit he did something ethically perverse. Yes, he removed the stuff from his site so he knows he did something wrong. But instead of admitting it he tries to label anyone who speaks up as a Greg worshipper. If he even had a clue who's who around here he wouldn't be so quick to make such naive statements. I'm speaking up in support of right and wrong. Until Jay admits what he did was ethically wrong he is still the same character he was yesterday, last month and last year. I don't think anybody anywhere who put so much effort into building a site like Greg's would ever agree to let some stranger come along and steal it under the pretense of "reconstruction". Now Jay wants to leave out the original series stuff. Why? Because he can't accomplish it without the intense efforts that Greg put into it or let someone else hand it to him on a silver platter. It's that effort that Jay has no respect for and tried to steal. He tries to cloud the issue with arguments about who owns the images when it's clear to any honest person that it's a diversion from the real crime. I'm curious to know what other sites this guy built. I'll be we could then track down the site he swiped the material from. Or has he ever even built a site before World of Wackiiiieees?
Since when did the foundation of this hobby revolve around people admitting their mistakes?  I am hard pressed to think of any examples of greg admitting making a mistake so I am lost on why the "admission" part is critical. 

Are you suggesting your version of ethics are the only version that exists?  You are treading water on major double standards being applied and hence "greg worshipper" might be an appropriate phrase to use. 

I happen to think stealing other's work is unethical but I am not going to judge that as being any better or worse crime than ignoring the wishes of the populous to leave a forum open or habitually talking down to people or creating blackball forums......

Title: Re: World Of Wackies...
Post by: bandaches on March 24, 2010, 03:16:12 PM
I may not have read that passage you're referring to, as I'm still catching up on the threads. 2 weeks behind, and still working to read it all. If you run across it, you can PM it. No big deal though.

and you're right. you wrote Brad and Jay, and I automatically used "them" in response, but really just meant to refer to Jay.
Exactly!  "They" is being very casually thrown around and greg broadly called everyone here a dipshit because of the actions of Jay and now greg's war wages on even with WOW site having only pieces greg is missing.  Of course it is not convenient for greg's war to wage related to current situation since nothing about the CURRENT situation feeds his need to play victim so it is based on a moment in time in the past.
Title: Re: World Of Wackies...
Post by: bandaches on March 24, 2010, 03:22:23 PM
One can not 'steal'  something that does not belong to the person who claims to have been 'stolen' from.

THAT is why I keep bringing up the actual ownership issue.

And I might just be tired,or just  getting completely tired of  this entire issue but since when did the word 'sheep' mean "greg worshiper" ?  cause you claim I keep labeling everyone who speaks against me "greg worshipers"

I used the term Sheep in prefect relevance here, some people are coming here blindly and  attacking me (actually very very few people) they are clinging to a false fact / misinformation touted by Greg.  that is a sheep mentality nothing more nothing less,  IF people were to actually think from themselves and do a bit of digging on their own, they would find HUNDREDS of websites that have the SAME EXACT IMAGES that are on Greg's site,  NO mention of where the images came from,  and SOME of the sites are DIRECTLY COMPETING with Greg's site by selling stuff.

The ONLY reason Greg came after me is he assumed (quite wrongly) that W.O.W.  was tied to the mass exodus of his forum, when in reality W.O.W. was registered and started in January, where as this forum and  Greg's latest meltdown is less then 3 weeks  old.

I even pointed out and posted links  from google and bing that showed TONS of 'greg's images' but he never once addressed them, 

did those sites not do the exact same thing I am accused of?

But I'm singled out, and put inside a cyber dunk tank, I'm vilified and attacked for no real good reason.

The question  IS in fact a matter of legality and nothing more,  as I said in the start of this post, If Greg does not truly OWN the images  there was nothing for me to 'steal' and so,  there was, is no issue.

There will still be those few who attack, no matter what becomes  of W.O.W. and IF the events of the past few weeks never happened,   none of this would have happened either,  I'm just the whipping boy for all the people leaving Greg's site.

IF anyone turns on their brain and actually READS,   i mean REALLY READS all  those posts on this forum made  by Greg they would see how stupid all of this really truly is.

-Jay-

The Sheep term is equated to greg worshipper because for the longest time, I called the greg worshippers sheep.  Remember, greg is convinced I put you up to this so any reference to any term I have used in the past will strike a chord even though up until last week, my association with you was like two PMs in trying to make a trade for 1986 album stickers.

Also, the group here does have a good point.  You are missing the point about there being a difference between LEGALITY and COOLNESS.  You might have had a legal right to use greg's images but few people care about that.  It is viewed as uncool to take someone elses work so casually and the fact you have not acknowledged that has ruffled some feathers even though your ACTIONS did undo the uncool act.  People want to hear you acknowledge that it is uncool to use other's works so carelessly as that is the expected conduct in this hobby that you are a member.
Title: Re: World Of Wackies...
Post by: bandaches on March 24, 2010, 03:26:30 PM
The main mystery is why you continue to play semantic word games. Who knows the exact number of man-hours spent creating the aggregate of the pictures on Greg's site? They have been created over a time period beginning whenever he started and ending now. That's the 10  years.

Do you have any idea how much work it took to hunt down examples of over 50 series 1-16 unopened pack variations? The scanning is a miniscule tip of the iceberg in the time it took to create these images. This is why the copyright ownership issue has been and continues to be such a bogus excuse. Like Mark said.
So Dave, how do you feel about the divisive act of ignoring the populous wishes to keep a forum up, creating a blackball forum and referring to a group of people as dipshits due to the act of a one person?  You have made zero comments on those aspects and have made numerous relating to the use of greg's images.  Sorry but using someone's website images seems less hurtful to the hobby and you proclaim to be worried about the health of the hobby as a top priority....sometimes.....
Title: Re: World Of Wackies...
Post by: bandaches on March 24, 2010, 03:37:00 PM
You know what, I'm done with this subject,

all you tiny few are doing is stretching the story more and more with every single post you make, embelishing the hell out of everything and totally twisting the truth and facts  of the matter.

NOW, I 'stole' EVERY IMAGE (it was not even a quarter of images from Greg's site) and the number of years spent scanning the images started at 4 (per Greg's own words) has now jumped up to 10 years.

I swear... you can't write stuff like this,  you just can't make up the madness that has gone down in this thread, the other thread, and the threads on Greg's desert forum.

I'm just going to ignore the few negative posts that will continue to pop up, cause I know you speak for a very few in this hobby, the bulk of the people know I did nothing wrong, and there was no malice behind my actual actions,  you and a select few are doing anything and everything you can to twist and turn the real story into the total opposite of what really went down.

But, I guess do whatever you feel the need to do to get your kicks, but from here on out you'll be doing it without responses from me.

you really are just like Greg though with your posts,  Greg takes a sentence from like this:

"If YOU continue to slander me and defaming my name in public forums I WILL take legal action"

And Greg touts to anyone who will listen:

"Do you know how stupid you look coming here and threatening to sue EVERY forum member...."

You guys are real good at twisting the truth,  but I wonder,   how many others actually buy into your twisted words?

-Jay-



There is no question that greg's over aggressive public approach made it difficult for you to want to concede any aspect of what he said is correct.  The folks who only see greg's side of thing will never appreciate that his overzealous behavior causes many of the problems as well as prevents them from being fixed. 

greg has basically created a situation where if you were to concede that taking images is uncool, that he "won" instead of creating an environment where "right for the hobby" would prevail.  Because he is so arrogant, I can see how someone would refrain from going down the "doing what is right for the hobby" because greg made it so irksome. 

He clearly never bothered to contact you directly and took this straight to a public spat and included us all in it by calling us all dipshits.  While I again feel taking someone else's work is not cool, why admit that to someone who handled the situation like greg did.  Of course the argument will go round and round as to whether greg acted like an overzealous ass first or whether you defended yourself first but the FACT is that regardless of which post hit the airwaves first, greg didn't contact you privately first to work this out, he made it an immediate public war and hence laid the foundation for this to be difficult to diffuse quietly. 

Take special note that many of the folks who are whining endlessly about your uncool act have made nearly zero mention of greg's uncool act of calling us all a bunch of dipshits and blaming us all for this act.  Is there now suddenly a scale of greater and lesser uncool acts?  Of course there is and of course that lays the foundation of biases, use of the words sheep and so on....

Title: Re: World Of Wackies...
Post by: Dr Popper on March 24, 2010, 03:44:19 PM
One can not 'steal'  something that does not belong to the person who claims to have been 'stolen' from.

THAT is why I keep bringing up the actual ownership issue.

And I might just be tired,or just  getting completely tired of  this entire issue but since when did the word 'sheep' mean "greg worshiper" ?  cause you claim I keep labeling everyone who speaks against me "greg worshipers"

I used the term Sheep in prefect relevance here, some people are coming here blindly and  attacking me (actually very very few people) they are clinging to a false fact / misinformation touted by Greg.  that is a sheep mentality nothing more nothing less,  IF people were to actually think from themselves and do a bit of digging on their own, they would find HUNDREDS of websites that have the SAME EXACT IMAGES that are on Greg's site,  NO mention of where the images came from,  and SOME of the sites are DIRECTLY COMPETING with Greg's site by selling stuff.

The ONLY reason Greg came after me is he assumed (quite wrongly) that W.O.W.  was tied to the mass exodus of his forum, when in reality W.O.W. was registered and started in January, where as this forum and  Greg's latest meltdown is less then 3 weeks  old.

I even pointed out and posted links  from google and bing that showed TONS of 'greg's images' but he never once addressed them, 

did those sites not do the exact same thing I am accused of?

But I'm singled out, and put inside a cyber dunk tank, I'm vilified and attacked for no real good reason.

The question  IS in fact a matter of legality and nothing more,  as I said in the start of this post, If Greg does not truly OWN the images  there was nothing for me to 'steal' and so,  there was, is no issue.

There will still be those few who attack, no matter what becomes  of W.O.W. and IF the events of the past few weeks never happened,   none of this would have happened either,  I'm just the whipping boy for all the people leaving Greg's site.

IF anyone turns on their brain and actually READS,   i mean REALLY READS all  those posts on this forum made  by Greg they would see how stupid all of this really truly is.

-Jay-

So are you basically saying you don't see anything wrong with the fact that you plucked the images Greg created without permission?  I don't care or want to hear about the legalities, I want to know how you feel about whether or not it was a cool thing to do. 
Title: Re: World Of Wackies...
Post by: Duznt on March 24, 2010, 08:13:53 PM
which included buying a sister URL

Something interesting from Wikipedia: "a form of cybersquatting which relies on mistakes such as typographical errors made by Internet users when inputting a website address into a web browser", is called "Typosquatting":
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typosquatting (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typosquatting)

Title: Re: World Of Wackies...
Post by: Plan 9 on March 25, 2010, 05:06:22 AM
Ernie,
Greg's behavior doesn't concern me. Stealing concerns me. Especially when the thief doesn't understand what he did wrong. And even more so when he acts like we're wrong because so few are willing to speak up about it. This is how he introduced himself to the group.
Title: Re: World Of Wackies...
Post by: Dr Popper on March 25, 2010, 06:01:32 AM
Yep, let's move on. This is all ancient history. This is all a new beginning for everyone.

I don't believe anyone would have brought it up again if he just admitted what he did wasn't right, but he keeps avoiding the ethical issue and focusing on the legal, and doesn't acknowledge what he did was wrong, and it was clearly wrong.  He took the stuff down, good job.  All he needed to do was say after he took them down…….. "sorry guys, I took a shortcut not recognizing the work that went into them, and in hindsight it was wrong and I'm sorry".

Some people just don't have the ability to admit mistakes. 

 
Title: Re: World Of Wackies...
Post by: Schmutz on March 25, 2010, 06:14:35 AM
"sorry guys, I took a shortcut not recognizing the work that went into them, and in hindsight it was wrong and I'm sorry".

This is close to what I was going to suggest. "My bad, images removed, moving on..."
Title: Re: World Of Wackies...
Post by: Paul_Maul on March 25, 2010, 06:39:55 AM
So Dave, how do you feel about the divisive act of ignoring the populous wishes to keep a forum up, creating a blackball forum and referring to a group of people as dipshits due to the act of a one person?  You have made zero comments on those aspects and have made numerous relating to the use of greg's images.  Sorry but using someone's website images seems less hurtful to the hobby and you proclaim to be worried about the health of the hobby as a top priority....sometimes.....


If you really want my opinion on these things (rather than just endlessly trying to find ways to imply I'm a Greg Worshiper),
I'll answer. I will not respond to further badgering about my positions on these things.

1. Brad announced on Greg's forum that he was preparing a new forum and suggested, albeit politely, that the new forum was technically superior to Greg's, and that he was doing it because of technical problems with Greg's forum. Of course, he can do anything he wants, but I believe (just my impression) Greg got pissed and felt unappreciated for the work he had put into the forum. He got fed up and decided to close the forum. Starting the "backyard barbeque" forum doesn't bother me in the least, anyone can start a forum and run it any way they want if people choose to participate.

2. Jay rolled out his WOW site, chock full of images taken from Greg's site, and the follow-up posts were generally in the vain of "Cool," "Great Site," etc. Again Greg felt betrayed and flew off the handle, and made the dipshits comment.

The common thread here is that, yes, Greg has a tendency to blow up when he feels unappreciated, betrayed, etc. No one ever declared him a candidate for the diplomatic service. I don't happen to feel the basis of his being upset was wrong on either count.

I don't base my posting habits on what's worst or best for the hobby. I posted a lot about the stolen images because it bothered me, and yes, it bothered me more than any of the things you cite.

I hope you are satisfied with my explanation. I hope I will not be recalled to the witness stand.



Title: Re: World Of Wackies...
Post by: bandaches on March 25, 2010, 07:42:28 AM
Ernie,
Greg's behavior doesn't concern me. Stealing concerns me. Especially when the thief doesn't understand what he did wrong. And even more so when he acts like we're wrong because so few are willing to speak up about it. This is how he introduced himself to the group.
There isn't a "few" who spoke up, in fact, almost unanomously, we feel his act is uncool and have said so.  He undid the bad deed.  You seem more intent on the triage now and whether he will subscribe to your ethics on this manner.  I agree it paints him in a bad light in the hobby to not agree with the ethics relating to stealing of work.  Jay stole from someone(greg) whose ethics can also be argued rather easily are reprehensible in playing God and ingoring the populous request to leave a forum open and to attack an entire group of innocent people as dipshits and many find greg's acts more damaging to the hobby as a whole.
Title: Re: World Of Wackies...
Post by: bandaches on March 25, 2010, 07:46:57 AM
I don't believe anyone would have brought it up again if he just admitted what he did wasn't right, but he keeps avoiding the ethical issue and focusing on the legal, and doesn't acknowledge what he did was wrong, and it was clearly wrong.  He took the stuff down, good job.  All he needed to do was say after he took them down…….. "sorry guys, I took a shortcut not recognizing the work that went into them, and in hindsight it was wrong and I'm sorry".

Some people just don't have the ability to admit mistakes. 

 
I will state again in case you missed it, greg made it nearly impossible for him to admit it as a mistake because greg immediately turned it into "greg is right" in the most obnoxious public spatting way possible instead of presenting it calmly and privately as the right thing to do for the hobby.

This is akin to PDQ making a reference to a "Godlike" person in the hobby on Tom's forum.  greg sent me emails demanding the post be taken down and immediately threatening me with revenge if we didn't.  PDQ post was definitely a grey area post and since greg declared himself a self appointed God in this hobby, he felt the post was directed to him but he made if very difficult for anyone to even view the greyness of the post because of the way he handled his complaint....so I told greg to go F^&* himself in response to his demands even though I had thoughts just before that of pulling the post.
Title: Re: World Of Wackies...
Post by: bandaches on March 25, 2010, 07:49:43 AM
This is close to what I was going to suggest. "My bad, images removed, moving on..."

His actions don't suggest this?  Did anyone notice he never once denied having those images and hence didn't approach this in a sneaky manner.  I prefer someone whose ACTIONS are favorable over someone who says a lot of pretty stuff and whose actions diverge from the verbal as is often the case with greg.
Title: Re: World Of Wackies...
Post by: bandaches on March 25, 2010, 07:56:13 AM
If you really want my opinion on these things (rather than just endlessly trying to find ways to imply I'm a Greg Worshiper),
I'll answer. I will not respond to further badgering about my positions on these things.

1. Brad announced on Greg's forum that he was preparing a new forum and suggested, albeit politely, that the new forum was technically superior to Greg's, and that he was doing it because of technical problems with Greg's forum. Of course, he can do anything he wants, but I believe (just my impression) Greg got pissed and felt unappreciated for the work he had put into the forum. He got fed up and decided to close the forum. Starting the "backyard barbeque" forum doesn't bother me in the least, anyone can start a forum and run it any way they want if people choose to participate.

2. Jay rolled out his WOW site, chock full of images taken from Greg's site, and the follow-up posts were generally in the vain of "Cool," "Great Site," etc. Again Greg felt betrayed and flew off the handle, and made the dipshits comment.

The common thread here is that, yes, Greg has a tendency to blow up when he feels unappreciated, betrayed, etc. No one ever declared him a candidate for the diplomatic service. I don't happen to feel the basis of his being upset was wrong on either count.

I don't base my posting habits on what's worst or best for the hobby. I posted a lot about the stolen images because it bothered me, and yes, it bothered me more than any of the things you cite.

I hope you are satisfied with my explanation. I hope I will not be recalled to the witness stand.





Very pretty post but you have not actually answered my questions much at all.  You were staunchly against Tom's forum dividing the hobby.  How do you feel about greg's ignoring the populous and shutting his forum down in effect doing what Tom did.  It is clear you have never liked Tom so you gave zero credence to there being a "justified" reason for his forum yet I see you bending over backwards to rationalize greg doing the same thing is ok and worse yet, greg's is a blackball forum.

Why can't you just say you are biased towards greg, why is that so irksome to say?  Your posts are completely in line with that so very consistent.  Consistency is good!

Title: Re: World Of Wackies...
Post by: Paul_Maul on March 25, 2010, 08:20:59 AM
You were staunchly against Tom's forum dividing the hobby.  How do you feel about greg's ignoring the populous and shutting his forum down in effect doing what Tom did.

First of all, I posted on Greg's forum when the suggestion of Brad's forum was originally made that I was against it. Greg basically transferred the reins of the public forum to Brad, that's nothing like what happened with Tom's forum.
The situation is not analogous to Tom's forum anyway, since there are not really two competing forums at the moment. 99% of forum activity has moved here, so there really isn't any division of information. I don't see any public gnashing of teeth over the move, on the contrary almost everyone seems completely fine with it.

It is clear you have never liked Tom so you gave zero credence to there being a "justified" reason for his forum yet I see you bending over backwards to rationalize greg doing the same thing is ok and worse yet, greg's is a blackball forum.

First, you're absolutely wrong, I like Tom personally quite a bit. I have hung out with him many times enjoyably, I even gave him a Blue Oyster Cult CD one time. There have been posts of his of his over the years the content of which have bothered me deeply, that's the only issue there ever was.

Tom may have had a "justified reason" for starting a new forum in his mind. All I said was that having two sizeable forums running concurrently was not efficient. That's not what is happening here. Greg transferred the public forum to Brad. Why the original forum is still postable I don't really understand. Calling the "backyard BBQ" forum a blackball forum is like complaining that everyone is not allowed to participate in a phone call. It's not intended to be a public forum. As the lack of traffic there demonstrates, that forum appears to be pretty much driven by Greg's participation, anyone can start such a forum and invite or ban anyone they want. If it were me starting such a forum, I would underscore that point by having people apply for membership to the forum, or have it be by invitation only. I do agree that allowing people to register for it without approval makes it seem like a public forum, and makes someone's exclusion seem worse than it really is.

Why can't you just say you are biased towards greg, why is that so irksome to say?  Your posts are completely in line with that so very consistent.  Consistency is good!

Clearly, your Vincent Bugliosi impression is directed towards badgering that admission out of me, unfortunately that assertion is of no interest to me, so I will continue to ignore it.
Title: Re: World Of Wackies...
Post by: Jean Nutty on March 25, 2010, 09:16:10 AM
Quoting Jay,
IF people were to actually think from themselves and do a bit of digging on their own, they would find HUNDREDS of websites that have the SAME EXACT IMAGES that are on Greg's site, NO mention of where the images came from, and SOME of the sites are DIRECTLY COMPETING with Greg's site by selling stuff.

I’m puzzled that you say this over and over. If a million people are using Greg's images to create websites, that doesn't make it right - regardless of the law.
What do you say to the policeman who pulls you over for speeding? Look over there?

Quoting Jay,
I have had quite a few people offer me scans from the OS but I've told them 'thanks, but lets hold off for now' I have much bigger plans for W.O.W. and not having any of the OS on the site will not make one bit of difference.

And people call me Nutty!
Title: Re: World Of Wackies...
Post by: bandaches on March 25, 2010, 10:54:06 AM
First of all, I posted on Greg's forum when the suggestion of Brad's forum was originally made that I was against it. Greg basically transferred the reins of the public forum to Brad, that's nothing like what happened with Tom's forum.
The situation is not analogous to Tom's forum anyway, since there are not really two competing forums at the moment. 99% of forum activity has moved here, so there really isn't any division of information. I don't see any public gnashing of teeth over the move, on the contrary almost everyone seems completely fine with it.

First, you're absolutely wrong, I like Tom personally quite a bit. I have hung out with him many times enjoyably, I even gave him a Blue Oyster Cult CD one time. There have been posts of his of his over the years the content of which have bothered me deeply, that's the only issue there ever was.

Tom may have had a "justified reason" for starting a new forum in his mind. All I said was that having two sizeable forums running concurrently was not efficient. That's not what is happening here. Greg transferred the public forum to Brad. Why the original forum is still postable I don't really understand. Calling the "backyard BBQ" forum a blackball forum is like complaining that everyone is not allowed to participate in a phone call. It's not intended to be a public forum. As the lack of traffic there demonstrates, that forum appears to be pretty much driven by Greg's participation, anyone can start such a forum and invite or ban anyone they want. If it were me starting such a forum, I would underscore that point by having people apply for membership to the forum, or have it be by invitation only. I do agree that allowing people to register for it without approval makes it seem like a public forum, and makes someone's exclusion seem worse than it really is.

Clearly, your Vincent Bugliosi impression is directed towards badgering that admission out of me, unfortunately that assertion is of no interest to me, so I will continue to ignore it.

greg made it clear his intention was to harm traffic to the old forum by threatening to delink it from his website.  Did you miss this point or are you very conveniently forgetting it?

Brad created a back up plan that would also include many improvements. 

greg reacted to the mention of the backup plan by throwing a temper tantrum. 

greg created his new forum immediately.  greg changed the link on his website to go to a page that showed both his new forum and brad's forum.  Clearly this had the intent and potention to divide the hobby or reduce the "efficiency" as you now so cavelierly describe it. 

It is happenstance that there isn't an equal split of posts and that greg's new forum is mainly dead.  Tom's forum didn't get anywhere close to 50% participation but it is interesting that your perception is otherwise....many felt Tom's forum was a hangout for the small minority of greg haters so your recollecting that there were so many greg haters is rather telling....

Your declaration of Tom's forum not being analogous to current situation isn't based on the facts, the parallels are in fact striking!
Title: Re: World Of Wackies...
Post by: DrSushi on March 25, 2010, 11:29:41 AM
First, you're absolutely wrong, I like Tom personally quite a bit. I have hung out with him many times enjoyably, I even gave him a Blue Oyster Cult CD one time.

Giving someone a BOC CD is a sign of affection?  ;)

I'm actually a BOC fan myself, so I'm just kidding.


Anyone know how to add an umlaut?
Title: Re: World Of Wackies...
Post by: View Monster on March 25, 2010, 11:40:33 AM
Anyone know how to add an umlaut?

Here's my cheat sheet  ^-^

http://www.nouilles.info/keyboard_shortcuts.html
Title: Re: World Of Wackies...
Post by: Plan 9 on March 26, 2010, 01:11:23 AM
Greg's not even here and you're still stirring arguments about him. The issue here is the thief within our midst. Not Greg, not Tom and not PDQBlues. I for one don't want to bother Jay anymore. But I wouldn't trust the guy unless he can bring himself to admit he was wrong for swiping images. You call the removal of Greg's images an indirect admission but for all we know he was worried about getting sued. If any of us knew they guy then someone could vouch for him. Since that's not the case I have to doubt his honesty.
Title: Re: World Of Wackies...
Post by: wackyman on March 26, 2010, 06:31:38 AM
Ok, First I want to to apologize for how long this post is going to be, BUT IF you really want to take a few moments and try to understand why I will not ever apologize to Greg I implore you to carefully read this entire post, let it soak it a little bit, and then ask yourself am I right or wrong to not apologize to Greg.  I just really want this to be done and over with so we can all move on

The following  is a timeline of the drama train wreak in order with some posts omitted, mostly it is just posts from Greg and myself, with a few of your own posts thrown in where you reminded Greg that what he asked for was done, so this should all drop. each quote will take you directly to the thread and post it came from if you click it,  so everyone can see I'm not taking anything out of context, or changing anyone's words.

In some cases I've shortened a quote to keep this post smaller,     so here we go....

These came from the original W.O.W. announcement thread, which has now been split and moved and renamed "Debate on intellectual property and the web" I start with the first post Greg makes in the thread once he has seen the W.O.W. website

I'm stunned people would sit back and watch somebody hijack content like that and not say anything, not one peep.  Could anything be more glaring?  Do you like people who steal others work like that?  It's true, this really is the forum of dipshits, there's no integrity left in this hobby is there?

We skip ahead to when I woke up and found the post from Paul Maul on the thread "[W.O.W.] 1967 - 2010 Wacky Packages Series Are Online!"  asking where the images had come from, I made my reply and at that time I was not even aware of the other drama unfolding in this thread,  after I made my initial reply and found this thread and read all of the drama unfolding, the following was my FIRST REPLY to Greg on the entire subject

wow, decided to sleep for 6 hours and look what I miss lol.....  instead of writing itall over again, go to the "[W.O.W.] 1967 - 2010 Wacky Packages Series Are Online!" thread to read my long reply about the content.


BUT, I will  add this here..

Greg, you did indeed put a lot of work into building your site, no one will argue with that, and at the time you created it it would take a long long time to assemble it all.


Now, years later ALL of the images on your website, and every other website for that matter is all over the internet via Google images, Bing, Archive.org etc etc it takes but a few days of searching google to amass the sheer amount of content that you have on your site.

Did I 'steal' your site NO, not one bit, did I take images from your site YES, do YOU own those images NO, Topps owns those images The only real people  that can threaten me with any legal actions would be Topps,

Greg... your not Topps

But you go right ahead and do whatever  you think you need to do, BUT I'd be careful as I said ONLY TOPPS has the power of legal action to remove their content from a website, and IF they force one site to go down, then......  well I think you know what could happen next.

As I mentioned in the other thread  I'm  in the process of swapping out the images from your site from the OS series,  I don't like the drop shadow effect on the cards and so those  will be off the W.O.W. site shortly.

I will also be filling many of the 'holes' you have on your site, and if you want feel free to use those images to fill those holes, hell I'll even zip them up and upload them to you if you'd like.

Anyway,   this was bound to happen even if I did not have photos from your site on W.O.W it would be some other reason you had a problem with the site, just from what I've heard I was told to expect it, and those people were right.

I'm NOT going to fight with you about this,

If you want to fight you will loose as the laws are on my side (as well as anyone else who wants to copy what I've put up lol)

However if you'd like to work together and share info between our sites to better  help grow the hobby I won't shut you out, I will gladly share anything I put up that you don't have.

-Jay-

now, I could really just end this post right there,   my FIRST response to Greg, included my recognizing the work he put in, as well as me saying that I will be taking down his images as I did not like the drop shadows AND that I would be willing to work together with Greg, AND share the images I had that he did not have

Please stop and re-read that last paragraph, this WAS my attempt to a acknowledge what I did might be 'ethically wrong' but not legally wrong, acknowledge his work and try to work together, this was my attempt to apologize to Greg

Instead of Greg acting like an adult and accepting my words and moving on, this was his first reply to my post, please remember my reply to Greg where I do in fact acknowledge his hard work and offer to work together and that his images will be removed while reading Greg's reply

Wrong, one cannot copy somebody's work even if it's not for profit, I don't know who's advising you but if that's your legal advice you're in big trouble, you need a real lawyer, and trust me you will need one, very soon.  If you run a store you can show pictures of the things you are selling, that's not a copyright violation.  Outside that, Topps has a long precedent of allowing fan sites and my site is a fan site, and their site even has a link to it.  While my store is no different from anybody else's store on the wackymall.  Furthermore what you have done is so lame, obviously nobody thinks it's cool.  You take the fact that I sell wackys and that I have become disgruntled as a green light to kick me when I'm down, steal my site, and do it without credit or so much as a thank you?  People who plagiarize and trying to take credit for other people's work are generally considered disgraceful losers in any social circle.  But you think this is going to make you popular outside of the ernie/gross ilk who have their own axes to grind?  The public will obviously see this for what it is.  As for you, we might have to let a jury decide where the law lies if you don't come to your senses.  I'll have my lawyer send you a formal letter this week, Monday if  possible.  Does your administrative contact know you've involved him in hosting unauthorized stolen materials?

 Smith, Jason  jason@jjwebworks.com
      JJ Webworks
      134 W. 2nd street  Apt D
      gaylord, Michigan 49735
      United States
      (989) 390-8075


So, After I acknowledge his hard work, told him the images would be coming down AND offered to work with him, he continues to threaten me AND felt the need to post my home address on a public forum, I really don't care about the home address as it is 100% public info and I even corrected the address as the one he posted was my old  address.

But the fact remains, he said at first "do this or else"  and offer to "do this" and he keeps it going, poking and prodding and trying to escalate the issue for whatever reason, my biggest issues with his first reply back to me is the stuff I bolded,  This is the point where he turns a molehill into a mountain..  he claims I 'stole his entire site' when I only had the fronts of the OS cards, boxes and packs,  no card backs, no variants, not his side by sides etc etc, only a base representation  of 1967 - 1991 from  Greg's site.

ALL of the ANS FB and OLDS I obtained myself either from my own scanning, or in the case of Olds they were given to me,  I stated this fact in the other thread, and in this thread (the moved thread) But Greg tried to claim that EVERY SINGLE IMAGE on W.O.W. was 'stolen from him'

Next Greg brings Brad into all of this with the following post

I didn't realize it was a competition Brad, well it's not to me but you can behave however immaturely you want.  I have more important things to do like deal with plagiarizers and other serious things.  Now that I know this is a competition to you, I understand better why you instigated this timely power play.  Well bro, you can't beat somebody who doesn't care, but have fun with whatever delusions you want to have about it.

note the bolded stuff, Greg has better things to do then deal with Plagiarizers (I never claimed the images from Greg's site were mine) and also note the 'power play' remark,

there was never a power play on my part and Brad did not even know about W.O.W. until AFTER he started this forum, and it was at that time that I contacted Brad and offered my help with this forum if he needed it, as well as jointly promote the two sites

Now, as per Greg's own words he has better things to do,  but he just keeps going, here we have his reply to Jason

You just keep making stuff up as you go along don't you Jason?  Well here in the real world I actually strongly encourage other wacky sites, I have a link to Rusty and I think his site is amazing.  If this dipshit had made a legitimate site with something new to add that I haven't been able to cover then I would be thrilled and would love to add a link.  But if he comes on here obviously with a chip on his shoulder and thinking he's going to just steal my work, then he's nothing more than an ass and he will be treated accordingly.  If you can't see the difference then maybe you aren't so prescient after all.  Your ability to weave reality around you is almost as creepy as ernie's.

I did in fact have a legitimate site with something new (old school) and how in the world did my initial reply to Greg show I had a 'chip on  my shoulder' or that I was 'kicking him when he was down' (as he said in the prior posts)  Next Greg is reminded what I said in the first place by Ernie

greg,
Last I checked Jay immediately stated it was your stuff.  Why do you keep suggesting he is denying it?  He proposed to clean up images(you do have a bunch of crappy ones) and share them back with you but I doubt you will take him up on it as it is more fun for you to fight first and ask questions later as you came here and called us all dipshits before you even contacted Jay about his WOW site.

Next Greg attacks me again with 100% false accusations, oddly enough his exact claim of "me removing the shadows on ANS & FB" is EXACTLY what I knew he would try and say, and I even typed that in my reply to him, (I was writing that exact reply when Greg posted this)

I just took a closer look and he has not just used my box scans, but EVERY sticker scan is also mine, now we're talking stealing tens of thousands of hours of work, he literally went in and cut out the shadows to make them look like he didn't lift them but if you look closely you can see they are all the same.  I thought it was strange the one series he didn't have was the 1986 album and that's the one series I don't have up too.  He couldn't do anything himself, not even the series that costs $10 on ebay, how incredibly lame and pathetic.  You guys should be eating this guy for lunch for what he's done here, it's one of the most outrageous violations of somebody else's hard work that it's almost unbelievable.  EVERY picture I can find on that site appears to be lifted.  The attack mob would turn anybody to dust who did this to anybody but me.  So let's see if people can do the right thing here.


This was the reply I was typing while Greg posted the above

I MAY be getting my threads confused, but I find it funny that Greg has not yet even attempted to address the facts I have stated about which images are which, and more importantly HOW he could even PROVE what images are 'his' as he claims.  I openly admitted prior to Greg coming here and calling all of us 'dipshits' that....

(1) I DID use images from Greg's site for ALL BOXES, PACKS, and some checklists, and  MOST of the OS galleries are from Greg's site.

(2) I AM in the process of replacing the images from Greg's site as I do not feel I need to have "doctored images" on the W.O.W site.

(3) I am in EVERY aspect of the law able to do what I did, no matter what anyone wants to think or believe taking images to create a 'fan' or 'info' site is not against any laws UNLESS TOPPS THEMSELVES HAS AN ISSUE WITH IT.

Greg you claim i have NOTHING on my site that you do not have, so do me a favor, point me to your Old School Sketch section, and your Old School  series section,  Point me to your 86 series (that is being scanned and uploaded now) do you recall what you said to me on the phone about the 86 series?

(Paraphrased) "I MIGHT get it up by the end  of the year, IF I have time"


I'm shutting the site down for now, NOT because of Greg's empty threats, but because I do not have time to play childish games with childish people, once I remove the images that Greg does not own from the site I will open it back up, and if after that Greg feels the need to attack again then I myself will take legal action for harassment, labial and  possibly slander I'd have to send all my data to my lawyers for true clarification.

To the others in this thread, I'm not new at this  stuff, I've owned and operated Internet consulting, marketing companies since 1998, I live, work and play online, I am VERY up to date on ALL the laws that apply to the Internet,  Greg, I AM The ADMIN I only answer to my hosting company that hosts my dedicated boxes (IE my computers that sit in their data offices) I'm no small fry little punk that you can push around.

I'm ending this now as I have much better things to do then watch you kill what you worked so hard to start, now your literally crumbling before everyone's eyes, your bad mouthing the exact people that made your forum popular, you snubbed everyone, you tried to take out Topps, you tried to Attack Old School,  and all the while you had no real effect,  sucks huh?

So... The site is in idle mode, no one can get in, till I'm done removing "your" stuff

and while I'm at it,   it looks like I forgot to update my whois info  so here's my correct info should you choose  to try and waste everyone's time with legal threats:

Smith, Jason  jason@jjwebworks.com
      JJ Webworks
      1825 Melvindale Dr.
      gaylord, Michigan 49735
      United States
(989) 390-8075

just want to make sure your mail gets to me.

-Jay-


.....continued next post
Title: Re: World Of Wackies...
Post by: wackyman on March 26, 2010, 06:32:19 AM
..... Continued from last post


At this point I was done, I shut down the site, removed all the images (or so I thought) and was NOT going to feed into the fight anymore, I had been upfront and honest from the start of all of this, I gave credit to Greg for his hard work offered to take down the images, took down the images AND offered to share stuff he did not have, all of this is what I did, each step of the way,  and guess what?  it was the right thing to do.  The issue really should have been over at this point,  the site was shut down,  credit was given, and a partnership was even offered, but instead Greg replied with this....

Wrong, brazen, and very cocky.  Those box pictures are my personal works of art and you're in gross violation of the copyright law and Topps cannot come to your rescue.  The funny thing is not that many years ago it wouldn't have been a copyright violation but the laws have massively changed and now it is a violation, you should read the latest copyright law, this has nothing to do with Topps.  You need a real lawyer dude, I suggest you start looking for one this weekend.

I wanted to let everything go, but I had to reply to that post...

NONE of the ANS stuff is yours EXCEPT for the boxes and pack photos

And as I said in my last post the 86 series is being scanned as I type this.

The funny thing is your doing EXACTLY what I knew you would do to me in regards to the stuff that DID NOT COME FROM YOUR WEBSITE

Is  this is theonly convaluted way you can think of to try and prevent ANYONE from  making  a similar site to yours,  just claim ALL WACKY IMAGES ARE YOURS and pray that people are scared of you for some reason and they just shut down and  go away

Sorry Teach, but in the real world it don't work that way, and once again show me your extensive Old School stuff on your site, since  you keep saying over and over I have NOTHING your site doesn't have.
(shortened)

Jason reminded Greg that what he wanted done has been done

Hey Greg.  Looks like you can calm down.  Jay has closed the site and will be removing the offending images, and bringing it back when he's done with that work.    So please, stop insulting and attacking - that's best left in your backyard, I think.   When the site comes back, even without your images, I hope you don't have reason to attack again. 

So, in the strictest sense, he's making efforts to correct the wrong.  You should applaud that.

Greg replied to me with....
So what you're saying is you stole from me until you get around to replacing what you stole?  Sorry asshole but the world doesn't work that way.  It will take you years to rescan all those images, and you'll never get the box pictures because obviously that kind of picture is way above your head.  This is not something you are doing for the benefit of the community like I did, this is a bogus power play, a disgraceful ego trip.  Removing my shadows took a lot of time I'm sure, time you could have spent doing legitimate work, so nobody should be fooled by your thinly veiled bullshit.  But regardless, you don't have years to fix your page, you have 24 hours.  You have been warned.  And your posts are great fodder for the trial where you are saying outright what you stole and that you did it intentionally.  If you had a lawyer he'd be telling you to keep your gaping mouth shut right now. 

So, I did everything asked of me, gave credit, offer to share and work together and shut down the site and that is Greg's reply to me, still threatening a fake lawsuit, more 'power play' claims, etc etc, really he was only trying to goad me to keep going, which of course I did,  I was behind by about 3 or 4 posts by this time, so before I could reply to this post I had to first reply to his "wrong, brazen and very cocky" post

Show me how I am Wrong, Brazen and very cocky,

your argument is moot at this point anyway the site is down, the images from your site are being removed, as I said I do not have the time to play childish games with someone being childish,  this is the exact reason I never came to you about this project in the first place,  you seem to have skipped over that so far all day....

The ENTIRE W.O.W. project  started as a FREE revamp for YOUR WEBSITE, a way for me to THANK YOU for what you did for this hobby, but AFTER we spoke on the phone I decided that the last thing I should do is help feed your ego, and I took the almost 10 months of work I did and scrapped the entire project,  then just about a month or so ago I decided that instead of just killing the entire project that I should pick it back up and do it myself, without the lording and ego tripping.
(shortened)

Greg's next post was...

There's no way you could possibly justify what you did, so give up on trying to hold your head high and ride around on some kind of high horse.  I don't own any wacky images but I do own the scans on my site and you have stolen a thousand of them outright and spent considerable time cutting out the shadows.  If you want to fill in holes like blow school then I applaud that, I've been begging others to get involved because cataloging the entire wacky universe was too big a job for one person or even two, but nobody really wanted to help, instead almost everybody's energy went into fighting on the forum and clawing for for lowball opportunities, while I spent most of my time doing something productive for the hobby.

But the way to do this in a sociably acceptable way is to join the gang and cooperate and make friends, not to dive in and steal stuff and kick people who are down and try to divide people and cause havoc.  That's idiotic that you approached this that way and I think everybody can see what kind of person you must be.  I have laid myself down for this hobby and I know the majority of people recognize that, which has been your major miscalculation here.

Note the bolded,  when did I kick anyone, divide people or cause havoc? I did in fact  join the gang, cooperate and made friends, in case anyone missed it, or forgot or just plain did not know I was "Teronsuke" on Greg's boards,

 I posted quite often from the time I stopped lurking for over a year and finally registered and got involved, I did the exact opposite of what Greg claimed I did,  W.O.W. was online since Jan, when did any of you learn of the site? not before this forum was opened, not the day it opened, there was never any power play, or kicking when down,  the registration date of W.O.W. is the only proof I need of my intentions JANUARY 2010, this board, and the exodus of Greg's board was in MARCH,

Next Sue Mee said to Greg...

He removed the material you're crying about.  Go away.  It won't take years to rescan everything.  It may take you "tens of hours" to photoshop the boxes, but other people may be faster at getting stuff done.

and Greg's direct reply to Sue Mee was

All I can say is it must truly suck to be as miserable as you.  What you really mean is "thank you very much for years of incredible service to this hobby, work that I'm so jealous of that I will act like a six year old".  Well, he did the smart thing to remove it.  Nobody can do that stuff fast unless they do hack work or steal it.  My work is super high quality and that's why it's time-consuming, particularly my full box scans, those took years and there is no way he (you?) can reproduce probably even one of them without stealing something from somebody, and most likely me.  I hope somebody steals thousands of hours of your work one day and then insults you and makes you cry.  Well the world is full of assholes like you, it takes a lot of strength to navigate around the assholes and still get the most out of life, but I've certainly had plenty of practice in this hobby which attracts 98% super cool people and a bunch of flaming assholes who absolutely never grew up.

I then replied to Greg about his "high horse" post...

I don't need to play justification  theater, I've not hidden ANYTHING I have no motives, agendas  other then what I have stated publicly and in private with individuals.

I want to give you a bit of free advice (not that you'd take it from me)

When a new person calls your hotline, you NEVER know who they MIGHT be, or what they could have to help you make your life easier, so it's a good idea to NOT let their first impression of you be an angry bitter person who only talks negative about the hobby, the members of their site and so on and so forth.

that's not helping the hobby,    that's not laying down yourself for the hobby,  in fact I really don't know what that is.

I've hidden nothing about myself or the site I'm building,  I even went as far to create a new name so I would NOT be using my normal forum name I use on most boards, I don't need to be worshiped, and really NO ONE should want or need that.

but keep on flaming me, post by post your just showing how you really truly are and your true feelings about the hobby today

and for last time

THE ANS CARD SCANS ARE NOT FROM YOUR SITE

But sadly neither of us can prove it one way or the other  and you know this, and I'm  thinking you love that fact.

-Jay-

Greg replied with...

No amount of your rationalization will equate our behavior here because we've gotten to this discussion via incredibly different paths.  I'm somebody who did my own work and gave myself freely to the hobby for 12 years and know half the people here personally, a hundred or so of them even spent time in my house.  While who are you?  You simply came here from nowhere, stole my work and tried to call it your own, and dissed me instead of being cool and showing respect for what I've done, instead of starting this venture maturely like any reasonable person would, you come rampaging in half cocked, stealing content and dissing a long standing member of the community, making yourself look like a total fool with how you've done this.  Of course all the anti-greg dipshits will be duly impressed, but they're easy to impress, it doesn't matter what names you call me ernie and gary and the other morons will get in line.  That means jack bro.  There's no equating us, I didn't do the disgraceful acts you did and I never would, I reacted to it, and you reacted to me reacting to what you did.  Only the fools who want to believe you have a point will believe it, everybody else can see you being a dick, just one more in a parade of them that have come through this hobby over the years. 

Again, just look over his bolded text, and remember all I have already done,  gave credit, took images down, offered to share images, and offered to work together with him, but to Greg that all meant what I bolded above.

After this  Greg  made another reply  to one of my posts, and  it is my last  quote/copy/paste

You haven't walked in my shoes for one second, you don't know me and have barely a clue as to the experiences I've had.  One thing is clear and that is that your stated MO is just a smokescreen for your true motivations, whatever they may be, but one thing is for sure is that honesty and integrity are not high on your priority list.  If you had a shred of integrity you'd take a second to realize that I've done my best in the face of incredible obstacles faced by mindless corporations and bloated egos.  That's a fact, that's a sad fact but it's not my fault and if you come in here expecting me to bend over and take it up the ass, well, as I said, who the hell are you?  Just another self-righteous blowhard insensitive asshole dipshit power player.  The hobby will eventually see you for what you are because that kind of incredibly antisocial behavior will come back to roost, you have to realize the allegiance of a troupe who are only happy because you're fighting with me is a group with very thin loyalty.  Your first step in this hobby was a huge misstep.  I encourage you to rethink everything and being the gracious person I am I might give you a second chance to be cool and hopefully do something productive. 


It was with that last post that I gave up, and due to that post I will NEVER AGAIN apologize to him, I already made attempts to make amends for what I did, I complied, I offered to share and I offered a partnership, and all Greg did was kept attacking me, and making the issue bigger then it ever had to be.

Now some of you think that I should apologize to Greg for what I did,  and others want to know if I THINK I did anything wrong, I can only assume these questions are because of how Greg blew all of this out of proportion, and skewed the real facts of the entire ordeal,  I was open and honest about where the images came from BEFORE GREG CAME  HERE,  and once Greg came here I was open  and honest again, I gave him credit, I took down the images, I offered to share what he did not have and I even offered we work together, seriously did I NOT DO THE RIGHT THING ALREADY?

I will not go out of my way to kiss this guy's ass after what he did to me,  if anyone owes someone an apology it's Greg to me, and that is why I will never say to Greg I'm sorry, I have nothing to be sorry for, I did everything the right, respectful way, I approached the situation as an adult and Greg spit at me, I offered my help and he attacked me,  I took down the images as he wanted (to end it all) and he kept attacking me, I offered to share images he did not have he  attacked  me, I gave him credit for all his hard work he attacked me.

So,  to all of you who think I should be sorry for what I did,  what exactly did I really do? I already attempted to make amends when this whole thing started, and I was attacked over and over again,  why should I do it again?

This is now 100% over for me, I do NOT want to respond to anything more in this thread, If I have to I will lol, but please let's just let this go, it was honestly done and over after my first reply to Greg when I gave him credit, told him I would remove the images, offered to share, and work together, why the hell this became an 18 page train wreak is beyond me, but It's  done, it's over let's just move the hell on!

-Jay-
Title: Re: World Of Wackies...
Post by: bandaches on March 26, 2010, 10:23:23 AM
Jay, just simply state that what you did was ethically wrong.  Don't do it with 4000 quotes.  The folks who don't want to believe greg complicated matters with temper tantrum and his overzealous approach aren't going to have their minds changed.
Title: Re: World Of Wackies...
Post by: bandaches on March 26, 2010, 10:27:46 AM
Greg's not even here and you're still stirring arguments about him. The issue here is the thief within our midst. Not Greg, not Tom and not PDQBlues. I for one don't want to bother Jay anymore. But I wouldn't trust the guy unless he can bring himself to admit he was wrong for swiping images. You call the removal of Greg's images an indirect admission but for all we know he was worried about getting sued. If any of us knew they guy then someone could vouch for him. Since that's not the case I have to doubt his honesty.
Where greg resides is irrelevant.  He has set up an environment where he can go whereever he pleases, attack anyone he wants and then run back into a hideaway when he can't take the heat.

I have already agreed with you that Jay should admit in a simple clear sentence that what he did was ethically wrong per the standards set in this hobby.   

Be clear that greg's handling of the situation made it worse and if some people are going to come here presenting a greg biased view of things denying that greg has any culpability for acting improperly in attacking everyone here, his subsequent further dividing the forum discussions and his continued allegations of everyone else being petty but him, then there will be rebuttals, get over it.
Title: Re: World Of Wackies...
Post by: wackyman on March 26, 2010, 10:29:20 AM
Jay, just simply state that what you did was ethically wrong.  Don't do it with 4000 quotes.  The folks who don't want to believe greg complicated matters with temper tantrum and his overzealous approach aren't going to have their minds changed.

my FIRST response to Greg, included my recognizing the work he put in, as well as me saying that I will be taking down his images as I did not like the drop shadows AND that I would be willing to work together with Greg, AND share the images I had that he did not have

Please stop and re-read that last paragraph, this WAS my attempt to a acknowledge what I did might be 'ethically wrong' but not legally wrong, acknowledge his work and try to work together, this was my attempt to apologize to Greg
Title: Re: World Of Wackies...
Post by: bandaches on March 26, 2010, 10:34:57 AM
my FIRST response to Greg, included my recognizing the work he put in, as well as me saying that I will be taking down his images as I did not like the drop shadows AND that I would be willing to work together with Greg, AND share the images I had that he did not have

Please stop and re-read that last paragraph, this WAS my attempt to a acknowledge what I did might be 'ethically wrong' but not legally wrong, acknowledge his work and try to work together, this was my attempt to apologize to Greg
I will state one last time that you are making people draw conclusions from your posts, the post does NOT explicitly state you believe what you did is ethically wrong.  You have offered a follow up good deed, sharing, cooperation,.....lots of nice things....but not explicitly letting the hobby know you truly recognize that what you is not accepted ethically in this hobby.

Maybe the inference is there but hopefully you realize by now that very few people are getting the inference.  Your admission is coming off continually having a "BUT" attached to it and as soon as "but" is included, all sincerity is out the window,
Title: Re: World Of Wackies...
Post by: wackyman on March 26, 2010, 10:42:39 AM
I will state one last time that you are making people draw conclusions from your posts, the post does NOT explicitly state you believe what you did is ethically wrong.  You have offered a follow up good deed, sharing, cooperation,.....lots of nice things....but not explicitly letting the hobby know you truly recognize that what you is not accepted ethically in this hobby.

Maybe the inference is there but hopefully you realize by now that very few people are getting the inference.  Your admission is coming off continually having a "BUT" attached to it and as soon as "but" is included, all sincerity is out the window,

Yes and No,  The "But" made all the difference to Greg's 'threats' of legal action,  you can not sue someone for 'moral wrongs' you can however sue for 'legal wrongs'

take that and then re-read my attempt to apologize to Greg,  the 'but' does not make it insincere, it merely and clearly stats what I did was not Legally wrong.

Meanwhile there is a real thief on this board selling pirated t-shirts, admitting it's against the law, and I'm the one being raked over the coals here? If that guy (or girl) don't get double what I got, I might just leave this entire hobby behind, cause it would truly make all of this a cliquey double standard place if that person gets away with what their doing

-Jay-
Title: Re: World Of Wackies...
Post by: bandaches on March 26, 2010, 09:42:20 PM
Yes and No,  The "But" made all the difference to Greg's 'threats' of legal action,  you can not sue someone for 'moral wrongs' you can however sue for 'legal wrongs'

take that and then re-read my attempt to apologize to Greg,  the 'but' does not make it insincere, it merely and clearly stats what I did was not Legally wrong.

Meanwhile there is a real thief on this board selling pirated t-shirts, admitting it's against the law, and I'm the one being raked over the coals here? If that guy (or girl) don't get double what I got, I might just leave this entire hobby behind, cause it would truly make all of this a cliquey double standard place if that person gets away with what their doing

-Jay-
Newsflash: this hobby is loaded with double standards, you might as well get yourself prepared for it.  The T-shirt thing is going to die a quick death because there is nobody to play the role of victim here and few people here really give a crap about whether someone uses Topps images illegally.  Add to this, the T-shirt guy isn't going to fight tooth and nail with everyone trying to justify his position to be correct, he has already floated away and so will concern from this forum about his activities.
Title: Re: World Of Wackies...
Post by: Plan 9 on March 26, 2010, 11:40:46 PM
I for one don't care if anyone rips off Topps images. That's Topps' concern. Not mine. I do care if someone rips off a hobbyist. I was shocked by what I suspected was a theft of Greg's site before Greg said a word about it. Once the theft was confirmed I spoke up. If I were Jay I wouldn't assume the silent masses condone theft.
Title: Re: World Of Wackies...
Post by: JasonLiebig on March 27, 2010, 12:32:14 AM
I for one don't care if anyone rips off Topps images. That's Topps' concern. Not mine. I do care if someone rips off a hobbyist. I was shocked by what I suspected was a theft of Greg's site before Greg said a word about it. Once the theft was confirmed I spoke up. If I were Jay I wouldn't assume the silent masses condone theft.

I agree with you regarding the hobbyists, but I also think if someone "rips off Topps images", the hobbyist, if they have anything worth ripping, is next.  So we should be concerned. 

A lot of us spoke up, and we should have.  And then Jay did remove the offending content.  Ripping off hobbyists is not cool.  I don't think it's okay to rip off Topps, either, as they provide the hobby, but it IS their responsibility to deal with it. 

Correct me on the details I'm not getting this next part right:  There were members here (and I believe you were one of them) that cracked cases of Flashbacks, and sold individual boxes from the cases - but only after a bit of searching for golds.  Once certain collation of "golds" were found, they stopped opening boxes.  So the cases were "searched".  I can't recall if this was considered wrong, or unethical, but some could say that the sellers were "ripping off" other hobbyists but not informing them that the boxes came from "searched cases".   

Once this was discussed, it became clear that "next time" adding the info that the boxes came from "searched cases" was important to making it a fair transaction.   Similarly, Jay has stated that he won't use Greg's scans of Topps' copyrighted material "next time".  That seems fair.  I hope he still follows through with it.
Title: Re: World Of Wackies...
Post by: bandaches on March 27, 2010, 08:50:00 AM
I agree with you regarding the hobbyists, but I also think if someone "rips off Topps images", the hobbyist, if they have anything worth ripping, is next.  So we should be concerned. 

A lot of us spoke up, and we should have.  And then Jay did remove the offending content.  Ripping off hobbyists is not cool.  I don't think it's okay to rip off Topps, either, as they provide the hobby, but it IS their responsibility to deal with it. 

Correct me on the details I'm not getting this next part right:  There were members here (and I believe you were one of them) that cracked cases of Flashbacks, and sold individual boxes from the cases - but only after a bit of searching for golds.  Once certain collation of "golds" were found, they stopped opening boxes.  So the cases were "searched".  I can't recall if this was considered wrong, or unethical, but some could say that the sellers were "ripping off" other hobbyists but not informing them that the boxes came from "searched cases".   

Once this was discussed, it became clear that "next time" adding the info that the boxes came from "searched cases" was important to making it a fair transaction.   Similarly, Jay has stated that he won't use Greg's scans of Topps' copyrighted material "next time".  That seems fair.  I hope he still follows through with it.

...and I believe the case crackers didn't agree to calling out cases or boxes from searched cases until AFTER this was deemed to be unethical by the hobby so for those folks, it wasn't self evident that this was unethical.  I have yet to see a flashback box or case on ebay(or anywhere for that matter) declared it was from a "searched" batch so either the hoards of boxes from searched cases aren't being sold(yeah right) or the policy of declaring the boxes came from search cases isn't being adhered to.  As I said to Jay, he is going to have to grow some thick skin because double standards exist in many places in this hobby and if he is going to allow the fact there are many double standards out there bother him, he is going to be quite bothered.
Title: Re: World Of Wackies...
Post by: Plan 9 on March 27, 2010, 09:18:56 PM
Hey Liebig,
"Next part"? What next part? The next part is where you open old wounds for nothing. Why drudge it up? Why turn your guns on me? What bearing does it have on stealing Greg's website? You want to relive your days from Greg's forum feigning ignorance to get people pissed off? Fine, here's a recap. I was the only one who admitted using a technique to estimate which boxes in a case had golds in them and ignoring the rest. I didn't have a magnetic scanner. I didn't reseal boxes. I just guessed. It was never my plan to sell the boxes I suspected had no golds until I was left with a pile of them. If it had been my plan to use a system from the start I might have had time to realize it would be unfair to anyone who bought the boxes. No doubt I overlooked a few golds and probably a plate or two. I didn't find every gold. I'm not going to do anything like that again because looking back it wasn't fair. I didn't affect the odds of finding a plate but I did affect the odds of finding golds. Not as egregious as stealing a website and maintaining you did nothing wrong. Now I dare you to explain how drudging this up has any bearing at all on what Jay did.
Title: Re: World Of Wackies...
Post by: Plan 9 on March 27, 2010, 09:23:45 PM
...and I believe the case crackers didn't agree to calling out cases or boxes from searched cases until AFTER this was deemed to be unethical by the hobby so for those folks, it wasn't self evident that this was unethical.  I have yet to see a flashback box or case on ebay(or anywhere for that matter) declared it was from a "searched" batch so either the hoards of boxes from searched cases aren't being sold(yeah right) or the policy of declaring the boxes came from search cases isn't being adhered to.  As I said to Jay, he is going to have to grow some thick skin because double standards exist in many places in this hobby and if he is going to allow the fact there are many double standards out there bother him, he is going to be quite bothered.


No double standards here. You're taking a very cynical view. It's one thing to do something wrong that isn't obvious to most people, realize how it's wrong and vowing not to do it again. It's another thing to rip off a guy's site and deliberately squelch out those who try to show them the light. Especially when nobody knows who the hell you are.
Title: Re: World Of Wackies...
Post by: bandaches on March 27, 2010, 10:31:24 PM
No double standards here. You're taking a very cynical view. It's one thing to do something wrong that isn't obvious to most people, realize how it's wrong and vowing not to do it again. It's another thing to rip off a guy's site and deliberately squelch out those who try to show them the light. Especially when nobody knows who the hell you are.
You are suggesting Jay didn't take down the images that caused the uproar yet there are ZERO examples of sellers of flashback boxes labeling the boxes are being from searched cases so if anything, it seems Jay took more corrective action than the flashback box sellers.  Talk about cynical views....words are cheap, Jay took action.....show me some ACTIONS of the flashback box searchers......
Title: Re: World Of Wackies...
Post by: Plan 9 on March 28, 2010, 02:27:15 PM
All I said was pulling the pics from the website could mean something other than an admission of guilt. Words aren't cheap for Jay or he'd tell us what ever we wanted to hear. So there would be value in his admission.

As for anybody still selling Flashback boxes with low odds, I don't know who they are or where they are. But I would advise against buying single boxes from ebay unless you don't care about gold borders.
Title: Re: World Of Wackies...
Post by: JasonLiebig on March 28, 2010, 08:16:43 PM
Hey Liebig,
"Next part"? What next part? The next part is where you open old wounds for nothing. Why drudge it up? Why turn your guns on me? What bearing does it have on stealing Greg's website? You want to relive your days from Greg's forum feigning ignorance to get people pissed off? Fine, here's a recap. I was the only one who admitted using a technique to estimate which boxes in a case had golds in them and ignoring the rest. I didn't have a magnetic scanner. I didn't reseal boxes. I just guessed. It was never my plan to sell the boxes I suspected had no golds until I was left with a pile of them. If it had been my plan to use a system from the start I might have had time to realize it would be unfair to anyone who bought the boxes. No doubt I overlooked a few golds and probably a plate or two. I didn't find every gold. I'm not going to do anything like that again because looking back it wasn't fair. I didn't affect the odds of finding a plate but I did affect the odds of finding golds. Not as egregious as stealing a website and maintaining you did nothing wrong. Now I dare you to explain how drudging this up has any bearing at all on what Jay did.

Sorry, Marc, I didn't mean to start a fight at all.  I think the way you dealt with your situation was fair, and I thought Jay taking the images down was fair, with his stated intent to not use them.  The similarity that I drew was that I don't think either one of you considered what you were doing was "wrong" until it was pointed out to you by forum members.   Maybe I don't remember that part clearly.

As I recall (and this is just how I remember it), once it was pointed out to you - you were perfectly willing to see how, in retrospect, you could have done things differently, and would do things differently, if the situation were to ever come back again.  I thought you were reasonable, thoughtful, and straight-up in your response.   

I thought it was relevant because it was a question of perceived ethics, and it involved what could be perceived as "ripping off other hobbyists" and that you didn't have any intent of wrongdoing - which I assumed Jay shared as well.   I didn't even think I was drudging, as you handled it incredibly well and perfectly gracefully.   

Beyond that, though, if Jay is still denying that he ever did anything wrong in using the images, then the similarities end there.   
Title: Re: World Of Wackies...
Post by: Plan 9 on March 28, 2010, 10:59:14 PM
At the time it wasn't easy to admit guilt, face the music and stay cool. Anyway, don't worry about it.
Title: Re: World Of Wackies...
Post by: JasonLiebig on March 28, 2010, 11:46:08 PM
At the time it wasn't easy to admit guilt, face the music and stay cool. Anyway, don't worry about it.

I never thought it was any kind of dramatic thing, Mark.   It was an honest oversight in a scenario that was, for most of us at least, a new one.  In a way, this is all helping write a new chapter on "trading card" ethics.   Which is actually pretty cool.     

And to PaulMaul's point, perhaps it should drive  companies like Topps and others to develop better ways to make collation of ultra-tough inserts even more difficult to figure out.   
Title: Re: World Of Wackies...
Post by: bandaches on April 01, 2010, 09:37:03 PM
Yes and No,  The "But" made all the difference to Greg's 'threats' of legal action,  you can not sue someone for 'moral wrongs' you can however sue for 'legal wrongs'

take that and then re-read my attempt to apologize to Greg,  the 'but' does not make it insincere, it merely and clearly stats what I did was not Legally wrong.

Meanwhile there is a real thief on this board selling pirated t-shirts, admitting it's against the law, and I'm the one being raked over the coals here? If that guy (or girl) don't get double what I got, I might just leave this entire hobby behind, cause it would truly make all of this a cliquey double standard place if that person gets away with what their doing

-Jay-
Is WOW progressing or has this been shelved?  I wanted to help you organize the Old School Sketches and update it.
Title: Re: World Of Wackies...
Post by: bandaches on April 11, 2010, 03:00:42 PM
Yes and No,  The "But" made all the difference to Greg's 'threats' of legal action,  you can not sue someone for 'moral wrongs' you can however sue for 'legal wrongs'

take that and then re-read my attempt to apologize to Greg,  the 'but' does not make it insincere, it merely and clearly stats what I did was not Legally wrong.

Meanwhile there is a real thief on this board selling pirated t-shirts, admitting it's against the law, and I'm the one being raked over the coals here? If that guy (or girl) don't get double what I got, I might just leave this entire hobby behind, cause it would truly make all of this a cliquey double standard place if that person gets away with what their doing

-Jay-
Is it a fair assumption that WOW is dead?
Title: Re: World Of Wackies...
Post by: BustedFinger on April 24, 2010, 06:01:31 PM
Is it a fair assumption that WOW is dead?

Yeah, I think Brad should consider removing the links.  The site has nothing to do with Wacky Packages now.
Title: Re: World Of Wackies...
Post by: Paul_Maul on April 24, 2010, 07:36:40 PM
Yeah, I think Brad should consider removing the links.  The site has nothing to do with Wacky Packages now.

Whoa! That must have happened in the last couple of days. I understand Jay was probably put off by all the controversy, but it doesn't say much for his level of dedication if he completely bails that quickly.
Title: Re: World Of Wackies...
Post by: Sunstroke on April 24, 2010, 10:00:59 PM
That is a shock. I didn't use the site because the layout blew through my screen, and I have a 27" monitor, but that is really shocking he gave up so fast.
Title: Re: World Of Wackies...
Post by: Plan 9 on April 25, 2010, 04:25:48 AM
Whoa! That must have happened in the last couple of days. I understand Jay was probably put off by all the controversy, but it doesn't say much for his level of dedication if he completely bails that quickly.
I'm not surprised in the very least. I smelled the stink from that guy way before the sight went up. It was a subtle aroma. But he went full blown swamp gas after he was called on the site theft. Sleazy come, sleazy go.
Title: Re: World Of Wackies...
Post by: bandaches on April 25, 2010, 10:30:25 AM
I'm not surprised in the very least. I smelled the stink from that guy way before the sight went up. It was a subtle aroma. But he went full blown swamp gas after he was called on the site theft. Sleazy come, sleazy go.
Agreed.  While worse crimes have been given free passes in this hobby due to personal realtionships, Jay irked me in that he continued to debate the legalities instead of understanding that his deed was uncool. no matter how each of us tried to explain it 

He reminds me of Tom Riccio, tangental association to wacky packs, stepped into it to make a splash and some money and then off he goes.  I believe Jay somehow believed someone would buy WOW, maybe Topps?  In the only phone conversation I had with him, I told him Topps would never buy his website and even if they gave indications of interest, their ability to follow up on something like that is pretty close to nil.
Title: Re: World Of Wackies...
Post by: BumChex on April 25, 2010, 12:05:50 PM
Yeah, I think Brad should consider removing the links.  The site has nothing to do with Wacky Packages now.

Thanks for pointing this out. I just noticed the link picture was down. I didn't have time to research it. I will remove it now.
Title: Re: World Of Wackies...
Post by: Jean Nutty on April 25, 2010, 07:52:53 PM
Is it a fair assumption that WOW is dead?
Wow, how quickly the weather can change! The site has nothing to do with Wacky Packages anymore.
Welcome to The World Of Wackies!
Your home for the funniest and most wacky photos / news on the web.
We’ve worked hard to gather up the best of the best of the weird, odd, strange, bizare and WTF?? style of photos and now we share them with you daily!
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Title: Re: World Of Wackies...
Post by: Dr Popper on April 26, 2010, 07:10:19 AM
Agreed.  While worse crimes have been given free passes in this hobby due to personal realtionships, Jay irked me in that he continued to debate the legalities instead of understanding that his deed was uncool. no matter how each of us tried to explain it 

He reminds me of Tom Riccio, tangental association to wacky packs, stepped into it to make a splash and some money and then off he goes.  I believe Jay somehow believed someone would buy WOW, maybe Topps?  In the only phone conversation I had with him, I told him Topps would never buy his website and even if they gave indications of interest, their ability to follow up on something like that is pretty close to nil.


That's exactly right, he would only focus on the legal issues and ignored the ethics involved.  What he did was uncool but it he didn't commit murder.  If he just said that he tried to take a shortcut and didn't really recognize what went in to making the images and apologized I think it would have blown over.  Everyone makes judgement errors in life.
Title: Re: World Of Wackies...
Post by: Paul_Maul on April 26, 2010, 08:17:30 AM
You're right, it would have blown over, but what he's doing with the site now shows he wasn't really interested in creating a site based on original content. The fact that he realized he would be expected to do so most likely caused him to lose interest.
Title: Re: World Of Wackies...
Post by: slamjim on April 26, 2010, 08:38:47 AM
You're right, it would have blown over, but what he's doing with the site now shows he wasn't really interested in creating a site based on original content. The fact that he realized he would be expected to do so most likely caused him to lose interest.

I think he closed out shop because (based on some of his last posts) that there was hypocrisy to all of the controversy. And he is right to that point. Maybe he is not gone and is just taking a breather.
Title: Re: World Of Wackies...
Post by: Crakola Crayons on April 26, 2010, 09:20:38 AM
I think he closed out shop because (based on some of his last posts) that there was hypocrisy to all of the controversy. And he is right to that point. Maybe he is not gone and is just taking a breather.

Dave, that's the impression I got based on his last posts too.
Title: Re: World Of Wackies...
Post by: Gurgle on April 26, 2010, 09:45:00 AM
I think he closed out shop because (based on some of his last posts) that there was hypocrisy to all of the controversy. And he is right to that point. Maybe he is not gone and is just taking a breather.

Is the hypocrisy you mention the response to looting images from someone else's site vs. the response to someone making unlicensed T-shirts? If the guy who made the unlicensed T-shirts vigorously denied that he was doing anything wrong in any way, I think he may have received more lively responses.
Title: Re: World Of Wackies...
Post by: wackyman on April 26, 2010, 12:56:56 PM
Let's see here,  where to begin lol

(1) W.O.W. is not as it was before as you all know by now

(2) I gave the domain name to my buddy who wanted to have a site like lolcats, icanhazcheeburger and peopleofwalmart I set him up with the design and the wordpress install and I hope he does well with it,  the other sites do very well, and hell Peopleofwalmart has gotten tons of news coverage in the first months of being open, so hopefully W.O.W. does great in it's new format.

(3) I shut down W.O.W. due to all the dumb ass drama I got when I launched the site,  and the continued drama I got after I apologized and removed all of the offending images,  as I've stated many times,  I have a full time job, as well as running multiple companies, I could not justify spending what little free time I have (even less now that Eliza was born) rebuilding a site that would most likely encounter more drama when I added stuff back up,   it was already very clear to me that ANY content I put up on the site that was also on Greg's site would just be called "Greg's stuff"  (like he tried to pull with the ANS stuff I put up,  he claimed those were his as well and they were 100% NOT)

(4) I NEVER claimed, not thought Topps would 'Buy' W.O.W. and I never implied that to anyone, what I DID say however is that once ALL the features were in place on W.O.W. the site would be used as a demo of the features that would be shown to companies Like Topps,  and if those companies wanted to hire my company to recreate one of more of those features great.

As for if I am done posting on the Wacky forums, I really don't know just yet,  I was met with an awful lot of hostility that I personally feel was unjustified, and as I mentioned in the past there was also a shit load of hypocrisy as well.  and at the end of the day I don't have time for that kind of stuff,   now there are people here who say I was 'stinky' before I launched the site,  that's great lol,  kudos for being all high and mighty and judgmental.

I wasn't going to post this,  but between Greg's post on his board I was emailed about where he's claiming I am out stealing images again,  and all the comments here about me and the site I figured I'd chime in at least one more time and give my side of the story.

until next time.......
Title: Re: World Of Wackies...
Post by: JasonLiebig on April 26, 2010, 02:56:08 PM
Bummer.   It would have been nice to have a new site devoted to Wackys.

Oh well...  I guess it wasn't really around long enough to be missed, but W.O.W. showed us some ambitious, if somewhat unrealistic, optimism for a moment or two. 

At least the product coming out from Topps looks great and they're doing some fun new things like the binders, too.  Exciting stuff! 
Title: Re: World Of Wackies...
Post by: bandaches on April 26, 2010, 03:19:58 PM
Let's see here,  where to begin lol

(1) W.O.W. is not as it was before as you all know by now

(2) I gave the domain name to my buddy who wanted to have a site like lolcats, icanhazcheeburger and peopleofwalmart I set him up with the design and the wordpress install and I hope he does well with it,  the other sites do very well, and hell Peopleofwalmart has gotten tons of news coverage in the first months of being open, so hopefully W.O.W. does great in it's new format.

(3) I shut down W.O.W. due to all the dumb ass drama I got when I launched the site,  and the continued drama I got after I apologized and removed all of the offending images,  as I've stated many times,  I have a full time job, as well as running multiple companies, I could not justify spending what little free time I have (even less now that Eliza was born) rebuilding a site that would most likely encounter more drama when I added stuff back up,   it was already very clear to me that ANY content I put up on the site that was also on Greg's site would just be called "Greg's stuff"  (like he tried to pull with the ANS stuff I put up,  he claimed those were his as well and they were 100% NOT)

(4) I NEVER claimed, not thought Topps would 'Buy' W.O.W. and I never implied that to anyone, what I DID say however is that once ALL the features were in place on W.O.W. the site would be used as a demo of the features that would be shown to companies Like Topps,  and if those companies wanted to hire my company to recreate one of more of those features great.

As for if I am done posting on the Wacky forums, I really don't know just yet,  I was met with an awful lot of hostility that I personally feel was unjustified, and as I mentioned in the past there was also a shit load of hypocrisy as well.  and at the end of the day I don't have time for that kind of stuff,   now there are people here who say I was 'stinky' before I launched the site,  that's great lol,  kudos for being all high and mighty and judgmental.

I wasn't going to post this,  but between Greg's post on his board I was emailed about where he's claiming I am out stealing images again,  and all the comments here about me and the site I figured I'd chime in at least one more time and give my side of the story.

until next time.......
Bummer that you gave up so quickly, it requires very thick skin, some levels of humility and the ability to ignore the hypocrits who give free rides based on personal relationships in this hobby.  It is a shame you allowed yourself to get lulled into arguing your case in greg's backyard as he is a control freak and hence he controls the postings and hence can make any discussion go the way he wants it to. 

I don't recall seeing anything posted here by greg about your ANS stuff being his so to some degree, you were going out of your way to find criticism by chasing the rat into his hole.  Stay outside the hole and that might give you the strength to carry forward with any future missions.