Wacky Packages Forum

Wacky Packages Discussion => General Wacky Packages Discussion => Topic started by: Rabanv on July 30, 2019, 05:55:30 PM

Title: Has anyone heard of a Matt Stock?
Post by: Rabanv on July 30, 2019, 05:55:30 PM
Is there a wacky sticker dealer by the name of Matt Stock?I heard that he might  have been the one who won the Ratz 1967 unpunched die cut in the previous Ebay auction.I personally never heard of him until now.
Title: Re: Has anyone heard of a Matt Stock?
Post by: Brian Mc on July 30, 2019, 05:58:27 PM
He was the seller
Title: Re: Has anyone heard of a Matt Stock?
Post by: Rabanv on July 30, 2019, 06:02:42 PM
Really?!Quite interesting.I wonder if the 1967 Ratz Die cut was the real thing.
Title: Re: Has anyone heard of a Matt Stock?
Post by: NationalSpittoon on July 31, 2019, 03:02:35 AM
It was real...

And it sold for what I initially expected, but am surprised about now.
Title: Re: Has anyone heard of a Matt Stock?
Post by: Rabanv on July 31, 2019, 03:43:17 AM
Did the Ratz sell for quite high?
Title: Re: Has anyone heard of a Matt Stock?
Post by: RawGoo on July 31, 2019, 04:49:52 AM
Did the Ratz sell for quite high?

$1,080.
Title: Re: Has anyone heard of a Matt Stock?
Post by: NationalSpittoon on July 31, 2019, 05:46:42 AM
Did the Ratz sell for quite high?

The price that Pat quoted, was in fact either quite low, or just seems low as many sellers post these for much higher than they're worth.

That being said, I was expecting more since it was the only unpunched Ratz on eBay.
Title: Re: Has anyone heard of a Matt Stock?
Post by: NationalSpittoon on July 31, 2019, 03:23:02 PM
Not sure what you are talking about. I just looked at the bidding and see no evidence of any shilling, and the price was much lower than most of us expected. Can you clarify?

Looks like the comment you referred to has been redacted.  :-X

Yeah, if he shilled it, the Ratz would’ve went for double.
Title: Re: Has anyone heard of a Matt Stock?
Post by: Brian Mc on July 31, 2019, 04:50:54 PM
I usually decide my limit before I place a bid, so I bid $1050 right out of the gate. I refuse to get caught up in the bidding wars and emotionalism.

  I thought about $1500, but decided against it. Would've been nice to have a Ratz, but another one will come along sooner or later. They always do...
Title: Re: Has anyone heard of a Matt Stock?
Post by: Rabanv on July 31, 2019, 05:51:11 PM
You mentioned if the Ratz die cut  had been shilled,the price would have been double.What does shill mean?
Title: Re: Has anyone heard of a Matt Stock?
Post by: bigtomi on July 31, 2019, 07:42:49 PM
What does shill mean?
Basically, shilling occurs when a seller [or someone in cahoots with the seller] bids on their own auction in an effort to increase the price other bidders need to pay to win the auction.
Title: Re: Has anyone heard of a Matt Stock?
Post by: MadMike on July 31, 2019, 07:54:05 PM
Which bidder is the one supposedly doing the “shilling?” This seems to be something that is accused quite often in auctions.
Title: Re: Has anyone heard of a Matt Stock?
Post by: RawGoo on August 01, 2019, 04:38:49 AM
Which bidder is the one supposedly doing the “shilling?” This seems to be something that is accused quite often in auctions.

Like Paul Maul, I didn't see any indication of a shill bidder in this auction, and I think in this case we should drop the issue.  The fact of the matter is that the card went for much less than expected, and Matt must be disappointed.
Title: Re: Has anyone heard of a Matt Stock?
Post by: slamjim on August 01, 2019, 10:07:52 AM
Shilling isn't always over bidding up it's also saving the item from being sold. It might have gone low but it still could have gone to someone saving it for him so he can still own it and try again. If you see him selling it again down the line you'll know.
Title: eBay
Post by: ToadallyDude on August 01, 2019, 11:58:45 AM
Shilling's been going on since the beginning of eBay, and probably always will be a part of the whole auction experience.  There's not much to be done about it, really, which is one reason auctions in general suck vs. outright sales.  But it's funny that eBay's been around for over 20 years, and people STILL put bids in throughout the week rather than just waiting until the end.  There's really no point or advantage to gradually bidding up an item over a long period of time like that, trying to always be the high bidder.  All it does it raise the eventual price up.  If everyone bid whatever they were willing to pay right at the very end, then it would save a lot of wasted time & $$$.  Auctions are psychologically-programmed like a Las Vegas slot-machine, in a way.  Pavlovian rewards every time you're the high bidder, and anger when someone else outbids, and triumph when you get the top spot again.  Obi Wan could have a field day with the people that fall for that cycle.  But in the end, it just jacks the price up much higher than either bidder would have paid if they were bidding in a one-bid silent auction.  Poker is a good auction trainer... evaluate WHO might be bidding, estimate what it might go for at the end, and BET or RAISE to try to win the hand (or trigger a fold).

One nice defense against both auction psychology & shilling is the 'yield'.  Don't hear much about that tactic anymore.  But unlike shilling or Pavlovian programming, there's nothing ethically wrong with 'yielding', as you're not under any rules or financial obligations until you actually bid or take part in an auction.  'Not bidding' is a non-thing.  Just because 2 people are interested doesn't require them both to bid by default. 

eBay looks to be transitioning into an Alternate-Amazon recently, though, which probably means less auctions & more outright selling instead.
Title: Re: Has anyone heard of a Matt Stock?
Post by: Paul_Maul on August 01, 2019, 01:59:46 PM
Yielding only worked when there were only 7 guys who all knew each other interested in wackys.
Title: Re: Has anyone heard of a Matt Stock?
Post by: MoldRush on August 01, 2019, 04:34:15 PM
What is yielding exactly?  Never heard of it.  Shilling sure, but not yielding.
Title: Re: eBay
Post by: BustedFinger on August 01, 2019, 04:52:15 PM
people STILL put bids in throughout the week rather than just waiting until the end

Agree 100%.  Sniping is the ONLY way to bid on eBay.  I recommend using www.gixen.com
Title: Re: Has anyone heard of a Matt Stock?
Post by: BustedFinger on August 01, 2019, 04:58:55 PM
it still could have gone to someone saving it for him so he can still own it and try again. If you see him selling it again down the line you'll know.
The only flaw in that logic is that if the sale goes through, the seller has to pay 10% fees on the ending bid amount.  I could see where a seller might create a fake account and then put in a snipe bid on the item that is at their reserve amount.  Then if the fake account wins the item with the snipe bid, they simply don't pay and file a non-paying bidder report to eBay.  That way they don't have to pay the fees and the item does not sell for less than they want it to.
Title: Re: Has anyone heard of a Matt Stock?
Post by: Paul_Maul on August 01, 2019, 06:01:02 PM
What is yielding exactly?  Never heard of it.  Shilling sure, but not yielding.

It’s people agreeing not to bid on an item to help one of their friends get it cheaper. In the old days of the hobby people would often take turns yielding so they could all get items more cheaply. But today there are far too many disparate bidders for that strategy to really work, although friends do still sometimes refrain from bidding if they know someone else really wants an item. It doesn’t have the effect it used to but it’s still a nice gesture.
Title: Re: Has anyone heard of a Matt Stock?
Post by: MoldRush on August 01, 2019, 06:41:39 PM
I guess if it’s a category of item that consistently draws the same niche audience of a limited size, that approach can be effective.  But this probably mostly went on at a time when eBay didn’t hide bidders’ user IDs, and I would imagine sellers would eventually catch on to what was happening, and either raise the starting bid or set a reserve to prevent lowballing.  It’s like the opposite of bid rigging in construction, where contractors conspire to make a bid look attractive compared to all others, even though it’s still grossly inflated.
Title: Re: Has anyone heard of a Matt Stock?
Post by: quas on August 01, 2019, 07:22:07 PM
The only flaw in that logic is that if the sale goes through, the seller has to pay 10% fees on the ending bid amount.  I could see where a seller might create a fake account and then put in a snipe bid on the item that is at their reserve amount.  Then if the fake account wins the item with the snipe bid, they simply don't pay and file a non-paying bidder report to eBay.  That way they don't have to pay the fees and the item does not sell for less than they want it to.

A seller can only do that so many times before ebay detects it and calls it out, potentially suspending the seller.  Just my two cents.
Title: Re: Has anyone heard of a Matt Stock?
Post by: Hustler08 on August 02, 2019, 05:43:35 AM
Shilling isn't always over bidding up it's also saving the item from being sold. It might have gone low but it still could have gone to someone saving it for him so he can still own it and try again. If you see him selling it again down the line you'll know.

great point Dave i have seen that happen first hand - this is a serious issue and should be spoken about - people spend a lot of time and money as collectors and all points need to be out in the open - never stop the conversation its all information gained!!!!
Title: Re: eBay
Post by: Hustler08 on August 02, 2019, 05:47:02 AM
Shilling's been going on since the beginning of eBay, and probably always will be a part of the whole auction experience.  There's not much to be done about it, really, which is one reason auctions in general suck vs. outright sales.  But it's funny that eBay's been around for over 20 years, and people STILL put bids in throughout the week rather than just waiting until the end.  There's really no point or advantage to gradually bidding up an item over a long period of time like that, trying to always be the high bidder.  All it does it raise the eventual price up.  If everyone bid whatever they were willing to pay right at the very end, then it would save a lot of wasted time & $$$.  Auctions are psychologically-programmed like a Las Vegas slot-machine, in a way.  Pavlovian rewards every time you're the high bidder, and anger when someone else outbids, and triumph when you get the top spot again.  Obi Wan could have a field day with the people that fall for that cycle.  But in the end, it just jacks the price up much higher than either bidder would have paid if they were bidding in a one-bid silent auction.  Poker is a good auction trainer... evaluate WHO might be bidding, estimate what it might go for at the end, and BET or RAISE to try to win the hand (or trigger a fold).

One nice defense against both auction psychology & shilling is the 'yield'.  Don't hear much about that tactic anymore.  But unlike shilling or Pavlovian programming, there's nothing ethically wrong with 'yielding', as you're not under any rules or financial obligations until you actually bid or take part in an auction.  'Not bidding' is a non-thing.  Just because 2 people are interested doesn't require them both to bid by default. 

GREAT POINTS DUDE!!!

eBay looks to be transitioning into an Alternate-Amazon recently, though, which probably means less auctions & more outright selling instead.
Title: Re: Has anyone heard of a Matt Stock?
Post by: bandaches on August 05, 2019, 08:13:45 PM
I've heard that transactions can be cancelled with no limit to how often a transactor can cancel.  This adds a whole new wrinkle to the shill bid process in which sellers are selling to themselves as reserve bids and cancelling transactions to avoid fees.  I have been relatively inactive on ebay so I can't confirm.  Doesn't anyone know the cancellation rules?

In regards to this Ratz, edge to diecut create, soft corners and stains on the back.  Not visually appealing and a 4 grade.  I have no doubt we will see it on the market again some day in the future....
Title: Re: Has anyone heard of a Matt Stock?
Post by: bandaches on August 05, 2019, 08:15:17 PM
Is there a wacky sticker dealer by the name of Matt Stock?I heard that he might  have been the one who won the Ratz 1967 unpunched die cut in the previous Ebay auction.I personally never heard of him until now.
How did you "hear" the winner of this auction was Matt Stock?  In which other wacky pack circles was this auction discussed? 
Title: Re: Has anyone heard of a Matt Stock?
Post by: Paul_Maul on August 05, 2019, 09:33:44 PM
It seems like there is no consequence to bid retractions. If I  have interest in an auction, I start looking at the bidders and inevitably one or more has 10+bid retractions. eBay just doesn’t seem to care.
Title: Re: Has anyone heard of a Matt Stock?
Post by: BustedFinger on August 06, 2019, 09:09:52 AM
How did you "hear" the winner of this auction was Matt Stock?  In which other wacky pack circles was this auction discussed?
I thought it was confirmed that Matt was the seller.
Title: Re: Has anyone heard of a Matt Stock?
Post by: Paul_Maul on August 06, 2019, 09:48:12 AM
I thought it was confirmed that Matt was the seller.

He was the seller. Rabanv made a statement that he heard Matt was the buyer, which set off conspiracy theories, when in fact, I believe Rabanv was just misinformed/mistaken.
Title: Re: Has anyone heard of a Matt Stock?
Post by: RawGoo on August 06, 2019, 11:43:49 AM
Definitely, Matt was the seller.  Was anyone here the buyer??  I'd really like to know what the card looks like in person.
Title: Re: Has anyone heard of a Matt Stock?
Post by: Rabanv on August 06, 2019, 03:12:37 PM
To The Wacky sticker collectors,yes I was accidentally misinformed.Matt Stock was only the seller and not the buyer regarding the 1967 No. 32 Ratz die cut.I also found out that the back of the die cut had some stains on it.Is that true?
Title: Re: Has anyone heard of a Matt Stock?
Post by: CherryBombs on August 06, 2019, 04:47:44 PM
He paid between $2000.00 and $2200.00... no prob he'll make it back selling those RARE... "Topps" Lost.. "Wacky Packages" Variations, Quad Blocks, Red Ludlows, Bonus Stickers, and "1of 2 Only Rare Titles" 
Title: Re: Has anyone heard of a Matt Stock?
Post by: Rabanv on August 08, 2019, 06:01:38 PM
To Cherry bombs,does that mean that the Ratz die cut that was sold on Ebay last week wound up going for over $2,000.00?
Title: Re: Has anyone heard of a Matt Stock?
Post by: bandaches on August 08, 2019, 08:28:59 PM
To The Wacky sticker collectors,yes I was accidentally misinformed.Matt Stock was only the seller and not the buyer regarding the 1967 No. 32 Ratz die cut.I also found out that the back of the die cut had some stains on it.Is that true?
Are you not on ebay?  How did you "hear" Matt was the buyer?  I told you the back had stains by simply looking at the scans.....
Title: Re: Has anyone heard of a Matt Stock?
Post by: NationalSpittoon on August 09, 2019, 03:27:39 AM
Are you not on ebay?  How did you "hear" Matt was the buyer?  I told you the back had stains by simply looking at the scans.....

Yeah, I don’t understand how he/she’s getting their information. They keep making inane observations such as Matt being the buyer when no one told them that. I think it’s been gone over that Matt’s the seller, be he keeps bringing it up.. It really makes you question if he is on eBay. If you look at the score of the buyer, you can tell it isn’t Matt.
Title: Re: Has anyone heard of a Matt Stock?
Post by: Brian Mc on August 09, 2019, 06:56:34 AM
Rabanv started the whole "Latest Inquiry" thread with this:

"I have been out of touch for a little while.I just wanted to find out if any of you dedicated Wacky sticker collectors every so often on Ebay see a unpunched 1967 "Cracked Animals" or "Ratz" die cut that is being offered  at  a somewhat affordable price.I have not seen anything of Ratz on Ebay for awhile,however I have seen the Cracked Animals unpunched version.I also did recently see a punched out Ratz die cut from 1967.I do have the feeling that the punched out versions are probably the best that can be found at this point that is affordable.I am welcoming any feedback from any of the collectors regarding my latest comment."

  Still wondering if he/she is on eBay?  :-\
Title: Re: Has anyone heard of a Matt Stock?
Post by: ratchet007 on August 09, 2019, 12:52:01 PM
To Cherry bombs,does that mean that the Ratz die cut that was sold on Ebay last week wound up going for over $2,000.00?

I think what he said was Matt originally bought that Ratz a few months ago for over 2 grand and just turned around and resold it at a significant loss.
Title: Re: Has anyone heard of a Matt Stock?
Post by: Rabanv on August 11, 2019, 04:51:21 AM
I DO KNOW THAT MATT STOCK WAS NOT THE BUYER! I mentioned that earlier in a previous post.
Title: Re: Has anyone heard of a Matt Stock?
Post by: bandaches on August 12, 2019, 07:55:57 PM
I DO KNOW THAT MATT STOCK WAS NOT THE BUYER! I mentioned that earlier in a previous post.
You still never answered the question in regards to who told you matt was the winner regardless of the fact that it appears he was not.