Wacky Packages Forum
Wacky Packages Discussion => General Wacky Packages Discussion => Topic started by: sco(o)t on October 18, 2017, 12:32:57 PM
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The 2017 Halloween Pack O Fun release has been cancelled. For those who placed orders, please contact me via PM about a refund.
THANK YOU,
Neil
Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!! :'( >( :sad:
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I'm gonna puke!
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SAY IT AIN'T SO!!!
:91:
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I'm full blown outraged!! >( Could you at least show us what could have been?
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Sad news. I know Neil put lots and time and funds into this project. Many thanks to Neil for his past offerings and for trying again this year.
Andrew
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Sad news. I know Neil put lots and time and funds into this project. Many thanks to Neil for his past offerings and for trying again this year.
Andrew
So this is what it really feels like 😡😡😡 i am sure SLOPPS IS BEHIND THIS!!good try Neil
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I have sent Neil a private message. Publicly I am as sad as the rest of you and hope that he can resolve whatever obstacles stopped it from happening going forward.
Neil has been a HUGE Supporter for us and I know in my heart whatever it is it was beyond his control.
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THIS JUST SUCKS!
(Or is it a "trick?")
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THIS JUST SUCKS!
(Or is it a "trick?")
This is NO trick. Something happened. Neil removed the entire other thread! If I find out topps is behind this, I'm calling for a massive Boycott!! (just speculation) but if topps is really behind this, how can anyone support that?? Prepare to tighten the wallet, yet again!
Jim
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PMed Neil, yet still waiting for a response.
Please, somebody say this is all a "cruel" joke and not the result of some petty, childish bullshit.
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Is this carryover of the bickering on some title that Neil has rights to?
I would have no issues completely boycotting any and all Topps releases if they are behind this.
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:sad:
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Is this carryover of the bickering on some title that Neil has rights to?
I truly, with all my heart, hope not. This could have a domino effect and spell the end for many other artists, as well, in addition to commemorative show cards - thereby leaving us with only the fare we have been served the past couple of years.
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PMed Neil, yet still waiting for a response.
Please, somebody say this is all a "cruel" joke and not the result of some petty, childish bullshit.
Got nothing from as well....this is very fishy 'price toys' :sad: :sad: :sad:
Topps, the same assholes who want to rape us with their OS6 set for $100 when the FMV is $8 - yea right!! Trying to shut down Neil!!!I am sure the IM is behind this!!
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Let's try to remain positive - I HOPE it is an issue where the printer could not make the deadline.
IF this is the case, I do not care if I get his AWESOME set AFTER Halloween!
Neil has been sooooo good to the WPs and I will wait for his awesomenesss if this is the case!
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The way I figure it, this stinks of something beginning with C and ending with D-something I thought Wackys didn't have to deal with anymore.
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Neil is awesome! I hope this is not Topps.
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I think there is a huge difference between cancelled and postponed. Neil did not say postponed and the removal of the starter thread speaks volumes. Neil may not want to speak about this, Neil may not be able to speak about this.
I said I wanted to puke before, now I want to puke and cry.
Neil, I will support you in ANY way I can!
Jim
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Let's try to remain positive - I HOPE it is an issue where the printer could not make the deadline.
IF this is the case, I do not care if I get his AWESOME set AFTER Halloween!
Neil has been sooooo good to the WPs and I will wait for his awesomenesss if this is the case!
If this were the case, why delete a whole thread and not simply explain this to everyone? My money says it was not simply a printing issue.
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Well this is certainly disappointing, Dave did mention he was going to talk to someone at Topps about this. I get the feeling whatever he said squashed the release.
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I remember last year at about this same time Topps shut down a bunch of stuff. Mark Pingatore's Halloween set was one of them. But I think he offered it later after Halloween???
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I think there is a huge difference between cancelled and postponed. Neil did not say postponed and the removal of the starter thread speaks volumes. Neil may not want to speak about this, Neil may not be able to speak about this.
I said I wanted to puke before, now I want to puke and cry.
Neil, I will support you in ANY way I can!
Jim
I agree with the above post. We probably won't get more info. Let's appreciate what Neil has done for our hobby and hope for the best. Halloween just got a little darker. Sad day.
Andrew
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This is a very sad day. If Topps is the cause, which seems likely, how can we protest? Boycott Old School 6, which we have been eagerly anticipating? If we do that, not only will we miss out on that set, but Topps will likely decline to consider future Wacky releases because of low sales. That hurts all of us, including the artists who work on Wacky projects for Topps.
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Damn! And they were all printed up and ready to ship too! So sad and disappointing! I hope we get the story why they were cancelled at some point.
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Whatever the reason for the cancellation it's obviously beyond your control and I can only surmise as to the reasons behind it but, I have and always will support the artists regardless of my feelings for past decisions made by Topps execs... thanks again Neil for your hard work and dedication to all of us !
Thanks
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That just plain sucks!!!
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Please support the brands you love (especially Wacky Packages)!
THANKS,
Neil
I support Halloween Pack O' Fun!
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Very sorry to hear, Neil, dang it! I'm sure you're as disappointed as all of us, but it is what it is.
(Note: "dang it" is not really a Boston expression, we're usually much more vocal LOL)
Let's all remember to continue to support Wackies! We've got a great new Old School set
coming soon, and perhaps a few new mini-subsets from Topps before the year's end as well!
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Is this carryover of the bickering on some title that Neil has rights to?
I didn't actually plan to purchase this Halloween set.. But if that was the case then I would definitely not be buying OLDS6.
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How does this affect Pranky Products going forward? My anger is really beginning to swell!
Jim
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They stop this, but let Matt Stock go on with his rampage!!! I am getting even more fuckin pissed as the seconds go by...
Jim
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WHERE IS THE OUTRAGE???????
WHO ELSE IS NOT GOING TO STAND FOR THIS SHIT???
GRRRRRRRRR
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Neil,
I have already sent my private message buy publicly as well I want to speak up and, I think I do, speak for many here in our great Forum:
- YOU ROCK!
- Topps has continued to dwindle and let down the WP community and YOU have been the Beacon on the hill
- They have previously sold out on THEIR Halloween stuff and yet fail to deliver in future years (Their fault not yours)
- You and other artists have been very generous and kind with your efforts and time to help me and others whom adore your art
- I understand you may not be able to share what happened but most of us are realistic and it smells of collusion (LOL!!!)
The bottom line is I and each of us in our family of WP Forum Members truly appreciate you, your efforts and ALL you have done for our craft, and I missed seeing you in Allentown in April BTW!
Hopefully whatever ailed this release can be worked through and is worth the wait, even if in June 2018! If not, it shall be remembered as the Lost Halloween Series.
Take Care Neil and AGAIN THANK YOU FOR ALL YOU TRULY DO!!!
Richard
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They stop this, but let Matt Stock go on with his rampage!!! I am getting even more fuckin pissed as the seconds go by...
Jim
Yes, I feel the same exact way, Jim. It's an extremely bitter and difficult pill to swallow.
Despite my age and cynicism, I had always liked to think that there was a loose fraternity of Wacky "players" - painters, concept artists, and executives - that supported and encouraged one another through mutual respect, creativity, humor, and trust - all united and working toward one common goal: to make people smile. This objective is not even that farfetched or difficult. In fact, it's simple. After all, this is the basis of Wackys, the very bedrock upon which they have stood for fifty years. And yet... And yet, even in Wackyland, we still find that it's dog eat dog, and rat eat rat.
This is not only a blow to Neil. This is not only a blow to fans and collectors. It's a blow to Wackys overall and everything they have stood for. You know, you get this kind of shit going on inside the castle and inevitably the entire fortress is going to become insecure and collapse in upon itself. Somewhere, somebody wasn't thinking too clearly. As with any great endeavor, one must strew seeds of excitement and creativity in every possible direction, not simply tear stuff up by the roots.
Rob
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AHHWWGGAAA!!!
LETS BURN THOSE WHO FAULT AT THE STAKE!!!!
BURN THE WITCHES!!!!
AJHAGJHDHWJBBDHBHJJHWGJEHGJHEJEGHGWJBDJJWHDBJWBDKJDJHWJGKWJHEGJHEGJHEGJHGEJWGEJWGDJ!!!!
LET'S HEAR THE BATTLE CRY!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gO2G21Ucqk
YOU SHALL BE BANISHED!!!!
...sorry I had to. Seriously, though, I can see the anger behind this. I, as one, was wanting to see all of the images and gags in the set. Too bad it couldn't have gone through. Let's give the people something to protest about...
And f*** the ever-living fabric out of the youtube forum link. Doesn't work.
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How does this affect Pranky Products going forward? My anger is really beginning to swell!
Jim
Wasn't the Pranky issue with a title from the upcoming Old School? I'm so confused!!
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This is not only a blow to Neil. This is not only a blow to fans and collectors. It's a blow to Wackys overall and everything they have stood for. You know, you get this kind of shit going on inside the castle and inevitably the entire fortress is going to become insecure and collapse in upon itself. Somewhere, somebody wasn't thinking too clearly. As with any great endeavor, one must strew seeds of excitement and creativity in every possible direction, not simply tear stuff up by the roots.
Greed is a very terrible thing.
Shame, shame .
Good thing for karma.
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This is not only a blow to Neil. This is not only a blow to fans and collectors. It's a blow to Wackys overall and everything they have stood for. You know, you get this kind of shit going on inside the castle and inevitably the entire fortress is going to become insecure and collapse in upon itself. Somewhere, somebody wasn't thinking too clearly. As with any great endeavor, one must strew seeds of excitement and creativity in every possible direction, not simply tear stuff up by the roots.
Rob
Greed has a way of humbling, maybe.
We can only hope.us
I had been anxiously awaiting Old School 6, planning to buy several sets. Now, I don't know.
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Greed is a very terrible thing.
Shame, shame .
Good thing for karma.
Neil said things are cool with him and topps.
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Feel I need to step in on this. As far as the Cheez Wheez controversy Neil and I have talked that out behind the scene and are cool. All this is a separate issue and we don't really want to talk about it anymore.
WP are only now dealing with what GPK has been dealing with for a bit: a crackdown on bootleg and fan made infringement material. There have been a lot more GPK home-made sets and other unauthorized uses of GPK trademarked stuff. Topps stoped Steve Potter's stuff and is right now in a lawsuit with Luis Diaz over his use of GPK. I'm sure Mark Pingitore is going to see some action soon as well. There is no way if they are putting the screws to everyone else that they won't go after him. On the WP side they told me I can't make any cards from those unused paintings and Neil can't make his cards either.
Before everyone goes baja over that, as Neil stated, we are all OK with this because A) we enjoy doing our official WP and GPK work and want to continue to do so and 2) in the end Topps is right and it's their trademarked material. Period. They do not care if we do drawings for people or other one off stuff but if you are going to print up anything with their images or anything they paid you for and didn't use or anything that looks like their product where you are trying to piggyback on it then they are going to say something about. If WP and GPK was on hiatus or even dead for a period I doubt there would be any issue but they are actively putting out material and they don't want other material flooding the market. This is pretty common sense. Why would they compete with their own product yet it's a product they are not making themselves or benefiting from? Another huge point: while Neil was doing his best to make a good and non-threatening product a few other people have been making X-rated stuff, drug related images, etc which is really what's brought this all home. I'm sure Topps doesn't want people Googling WP or GPK and images bearing the GPK or WP name or a look-a-like on first glance showing up to freak out people. I know this was a major issue from being told quite awhile ago. If they stop one person they have to stop every person or the one person can use that in court that they are being singled out. Just ask yourself if Disney would allow others to make Mickey Mouse material or DC to let people produce Superman stuff. Of course not.
You can boycott any product you like but in the end you'd be biting off your nose to spite your face. Neil, me, Brent, Smokin Joe, Joe Simko, Fred, Joe Grossberg, Paul Harris, etc are still going to be making cards and working our butts off (despite some of the weird decisions by Topps) to bring you some kick-ass cards. While I know there has been some negativity towards the Trump stuff and the recent 50th set I think the new set will be a hit but the real place is going to be online. If you don't buy OLDS6 then of course there will not be an OLD7 and then probably no more experimenting where Topps may end up being interested into putting out Neil's cards as a Halloween set. It's a chain reaction. Obviously, I'm not going to tell you to buy it for us. If you like the cards get them. If not, then we deserve it if you don't buy them. I personally think OLDS6 is a big deal because if it does well I can guarantee Topps will be more open to doing just cool regular WPs again. Maybe Neil's sets, maybe postcards, maybe anything as long as they feel there is a market for them. I know this for a fact as I spent the last year talking them into doing this and pointing out how the online market could work better doing these cool fan sets rather than Trump. They are open to it and OLD is the experiment.
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I understand the point made about trademark infringement. I do not believe, though, that Topps has the right to monopolize all product parodies. What makes a Wacky a Wacky? The name? The black border around the product illustration? If I were to paint a product parody, would that be illegal? Or only if I mass-produced and sold it?
Also, it's not as if the odd cards are being mass-produced on a grand scale. They may pop up here and there, but I don't believe they pose a major threat to Topps. Sure, Topps would like the additional revenue. But I don't think that if somebody buys the odd card or small set, they're going to consequently shun Topps. They'll still buy the Topps sets anyway. (Or perhaps not, if they don't like them.) If anything, I would think the odd cards would benefit Topps by "carrying the torch" during dormant periods - that is, keep the hobby alive - especially if the cards are created by Topps artists.
I also understand the point about the adult-themed items online and how these might cast a shadow over WP. To be honest, though, nothing is really going to prevent this. If I Google "x-rated Disney" something is bound to show up. (I just did. And images came up.)
I think all of this could have been handled much differently. If Topps was aware of Neil Camera's latest set, why didn't they just buy it, post the images, and offer up a "Topps" Halloween set online - say, by tomorrow? I can't be certain, but I would think that Neil's parodies were up to Topps's standards.
At any rate, I hope that we do see these cards someday - as well as any other cards created by dedicated artists and concept writers.
Addendum: Or is their another - that is, a second, "Topps" - Halloween set in the works? (Even if this was true, though, I highly doubt sales of one set would encroach upon the sales of the other.)
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I understand the point made about trademark infringement. I do not believe, though, that Topps has the right to monopolize all product parodies. What makes a Wacky a Wacky? The name? The black border around the product illustration? If I were to paint a product parody, would that be illegal? Or only if I mass-produced and sold it?
Also, it's not as if the odd cards are being mass-produced on a grand scale. They may pop up here and there, but I don't believe they pose a major threat to Topps. Sure, Topps would like the additional revenue. But I don't think that if somebody buys the odd card or small set, they're going to consequently shun Topps. They'll still buy the Topps sets anyway. (Or perhaps not, if they don't like them.) If anything, I would think the odd cards would benefit Topps by "carrying the torch" during dormant periods - that is, keep the hobby alive - especially if the cards are created by Topps artists.
I also understand the point about the adult-themed items online and how these might cast a shadow over WP. To be honest, though, nothing is really going to prevent this. If I Google "x-rated Disney" something is bound to show up. (I just did. And images came up.)
I think all of this could have been handled much differently. If Topps was aware of Neil Camera's latest set, why didn't they just buy it, post the images, and offer up a "Topps" Halloween set online - say, by tomorrow? I can't be certain, but I would think that Neil's parodies were up to Topps's standards.
At any rate, I hope that we do see these cards someday - as well as any other cards created by dedicated artists and concept writers.
They have the right to stop production on all cards that look exactly like or are made to look as close as possible to their product. That's not monopolizing all product parodies. If we can think of an original way to do them (and I think Smokin Joe has) then they would really have nothing to say. As I said any of us can make our our product parody paintings or drawings or what not. And I can sell that single item. If I choose to mass produce it and sell it then I better not have it looking like someone else's product. That's how it works.
Nope, you are wrong about your second paragraph. It's not so much about the few bucks others would make. If you have a trademark on something you have to protect it. Period. Or you risk losing it.
Yes, possibly during a dormant period but as I said this is not a dormant period. Also, there were posts that said they would not buy OLDS because they had to spread their money towards the Halloween set because it was cheaper and cheaper per card. That kills your point right there. Clearly any competing sets can draw revenue away from their product especially if they are coming out around the same time.
While it's true you can't stop all bootlegging and harmful images they are going to try (as is Disney, etc). The more proactive you are the more it will stop.
As for why they didn't buy Neil's set I have no idea. Maybe the cost would be too much, maybe Neil didn't want to do that under whatever terms they would have been, maybe Topps wasn't prepared for that (the editor is on vacation until November so that's very plausible), maybe they want to start with OLDS then move on from that and didn't want to disrupt their plans. Who knows?
Yes, hopefully they can get made. Whether that's by Topps at some point or Neil putting them out when it a safer time to do so. Maybe in a book form? Trust me, I'd love to make a card set using all kind of my favorite unused concepts. Hopefully some day I can.
BTW, Old School was initially done by me in a dormant period and I was going to put it out myself. I had a whole different name and logo made. Got told they were starting up cards again and rather then competing with them and also risk losing the new work I convinced them to put out Old School themselves which we did under the Toppsvault banner for the first few sets. This is sort of the the online stuff is right now. Experiment with some stuff and hope to figure out some hits. I think they really went about it all wrong from the start with the Trump stuff. If retail is going to be more opened up to themes and entertainment stuff then the online (which is really only hardcore collectors let's be real) should be all about fan friendly sets.
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I always wondered what gavage meant, so I looked it up. "introduction of material into the stomach by a tube."
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The irony of this is...we want that trademark Wacky Packages formula of days gone by, but Topps isn't producing it anymore! That 50th anniversary set was a joke and I'm not feeling the magic with the upcoming Movie Posters set either! Nothing against the artists involved, but the parodies aren't good parodies. People like SlamJim and Koduck are trying to bring back the parody quality we all yearn for, and it sounds like Topps is threatening C&D. I'm thankful we are still getting Old School 6, which has the "old school" formula and I will definitely be buying it because I know it will be great material, just like Koduck's Halloween fun packs!
Hopefully Koduck and SlamJim's great unused artwork will be published someday, even under the Topps trademark.
NOTE: I'm using their forum names and not their real names because I never met them before personally, so I feel I don't have the right to use their real names. As a matter a fact, I never met anyone here! I'm just a schmuck from Milwaukee!
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The irony of this is...we want that trademark Wacky Packages formula of days gone by, but Topps isn't producing it anymore! That 50th anniversary set was a joke and I'm not feeling the magic with the upcoming Movie Posters set either! Nothing against the artists involved, but the parodies aren't good parodies. People like SlamJim and Koduck are trying to bring back the parody quality we all yearn for, and it sounds like Topps is threatening C&D. I'm thankful we are still getting Old School 6, which has the "old school" formula and I will definitely be buying it!
It's not a movie posters set. There are movie posters in it but also tons of regular real product parodies so don't fear it too much! They should have featured way more products over posters on the previews but I don't think they had others ready. I'm confident I did 22 kick-ass pieces and I've seen a few from others that were really, really good. Totally agree about the 50th though. No real products was a huge mistake. If you liked the previous cards in OLDS1-5 then no doubt you will like these. Fat borders on them as well.
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Yes, possibly during a dormant period but as I said this is not a dormant period. Also, there were posts that said they would not buy OLDS because they had to spread their money towards the Halloween set because it was cheaper and cheaper per card. That kills your point right there. Clearly any competing sets can draw revenue away from their product especially if they are coming out around the same time.
Yes, hopefully they can get made. Whether that's by Topps at some point or Neil putting them out when it a safer time to do so. Maybe in a book form? Trust me, I'd love to make a card set using all kind of my favorite unused concepts. Hopefully some day I can.
BTW, Old School was initially done by me in a dormant period and I was going to put it out myself. I had a whole different name and logo made. Got told they were starting up cards again and rather then competing with them and also risk losing the new work I convinced them to put out Old School themselves which we did under the Toppsvault banner for the first few sets. This is sort of the the online stuff is right now. Experiment with some stuff and hope to figure out some hits. I think they really went about it all wrong from the start with the Trump stuff. If retail is going to be more opened up to themes and entertainment stuff then the online (which is really only hardcore collectors let's be real) should be all about fan friendly sets.
Thanks for your reply.
I also think the hefty price tag Topps has been placing on their sets doesn't help too much, either, regardless of how many other sets are out there at the same time. Talk about a deterrent.
Books by the artists who have been around for sometime and accumulated a lot of "unused" material (finished and unfinished) would be a fantastic idea. As would artists' card sets, as well.
Interesting bit of history about OS. I agree about the fan friendly sets and the hardcore collectors. (But then and again, there is still that blasted high price tag.)
Well, so much for October. No Packs O' Fun, no OS6. It does suck, but let's hope for stability and the promise of a brighter future.
(https://s1.postimg.org/2wmaylu7cb/punkin_Emoji.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/2wmaylu7cb/)
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The irony of this is...we want that trademark Wacky Packages formula of days gone by, but Topps isn't producing it anymore! That 50th anniversary set was a joke and I'm not feeling the magic with the upcoming Movie Posters set either! Nothing against the artists involved, but the parodies aren't good parodies. People like SlamJim and Koduck are trying to bring back the parody quality we all yearn for, and it sounds like Topps is threatening C&D. I'm thankful we are still getting Old School 6, which has the "old school" formula and I will definitely be buying it because I know it will be great material, just like Koduck's Halloween fun packs!
Hopefully Koduck and SlamJim's great unused artwork will be published someday, even under the Topps trademark.
NOTE: I'm using their forum names and not their real names because I never met them before personally, so I feel I don't have the right to use their real names. As a matter a fact, I never met anyone here! I'm just a schmuck from Milwaukee!
Hey! You have met me :'(
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And f*** the ever-living fabric out of the youtube forum link. Doesn't work.
It certainly does, ya just hafta know how...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gO2G21Ucqk
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Hey! You have met me :'(
Where? Are you the guy from Kenosha? It's been so long I forgot. Oops!
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They have the right to stop production on all cards that look exactly like or are made to look as close as possible to their product. That's not monopolizing all product parodies.
How is a competing product NOT going to 'look like theirs'? Wackys are made to look like the product that they are spoofing. A competing parody would likewise look like the product they are spoofing. So, the competing parody would look like a Wacky? No, it would look like the product that it was spoofing.
These days, there is nothing that sets a Wacky apart.... nothing that 'makes it a Wacky'. Historically, you could argue the thick black border, but, anymore, they are simply parodies (and not always of products!). Colored borders? Sorry, Topps doesn't have a patent on color. Nobody owns red or yellow or silver or etc.
Not monopolizing all product parodies? It certainly is an attempt to, and I'm pretty sure everybody knows it. It's the same strongarm methods that Microsoft used when they tried to run Netscape out of the browser business. All because they couldn't handle a little competition (actually, Netscape was kicking their ass). Topps wants this same kind of domination.
In the Microsoft situation, Netscape initially gave them the middle finger because they had their own income and didn't rely on Microsoft for any of it. In this case, Topps literally holds all the cards. Topps is where your bread is buttered, and they know it. It's not like you can walk across the street and make the same money for some other parody card company. Because there is no competition, Topps doesn't have to sue you, or even threaten it. They'll just blackball you: Go ahead, make your little Halloween set... you'll never work for us again! You're stuck, they've got you, and there's nothing you're going to do about it. Oh, you could go to court with them (and even win, like Netscape did), but, you'll drown in all your legal bills. You'll be bankrupt, blackballed, and unemployable, but they'll still be producing WP and GPKs. What will you have gained? Nothing. It's a shitty business practice that's been around since the dawn of time.
Please don't take any of this as an indicment on the artists. Y'all gotta eat and pay bills. If you have to cancel a Halloween set to keep yourself employed, so be it. And, I don't blame you one bit because I would do the same thing.
Sure does cast a dark shadow over this weekend for me, though.
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This whole situation sounds very similar to CBS's reaction to amateur Star Trek productions. (Not that Neil is an amateur by any stretch of imagination.) But the Star Trek productions were overlooked by CBS, the owner of the Star Trek property, because they realized that these productions kept fandom interest alive and didn't interfere with the profitability of their product--UNTIL a couple of producers started selling their productions. That's when CBS sued them. The amateur producers who sold their productions got nasty about it, saying they were singled out, etc. CBS then put out extremely strict guidelines for amateur Star Trek productions, and under no circumstances were they allowed to sell and profit from the Star Trek name.
There are definite differences in this case; for example, Neil did NOT get nasty with Topps. However, as Slamjim pointed out, it does sound as though Topps is trying to protect its product from other amateurs who are producing products that could diminish the WP and GPK names. Also, like CBS, it sounds as though Topps is concerned that they're not getting their share of the profits from these non-official Topps cards bearing resemblance to their product. (Of course, if Topps were paying attention, they'd see that Neil and Slamjim are in no way profiting from their offers.)
Unfortunately, Topps has the legal upper hand here and can enforce restrictions on their products as they see fit. However, perhaps--soon, hopefully--Topps will realize that Neil and Slamjim and some others are merely filling a void in Wacky Packages fandom and, like CBS did, could issue their own set of guidelines for non-official Wacky Packages material. It would keep the Wacky fans happy.
In the meantime, I will sorely miss this year's Halloween Pack-o-fun. Guess there will be no fun this Halloween. :'(
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How is a competing product NOT going to 'look like theirs'? Wackys are made to look like the product that they are spoofing. A competing parody would likewise look like the product they are spoofing. So, the competing parody would look like a Wacky? No, it would look like the product that it was spoofing.
These days, there is nothing that sets a Wacky apart.... nothing that 'makes it a Wacky'. Historically, you could argue the thick black border, but, anymore, they are simply parodies (and not always of products!). Colored borders? Sorry, Topps doesn't have a patent on color. Nobody owns red or yellow or silver or etc.
Not monopolizing all product parodies? It certainly is an attempt to, and I'm pretty sure everybody knows it. It's the same strongarm methods that Microsoft used when they tried to run Netscape out of the browser business. All because they couldn't handle a little competition (actually, Netscape was kicking their ass). Topps wants this same kind of domination.
In the Microsoft situation, Netscape initially gave them the middle finger because they had their own income and didn't rely on Microsoft for any of it. In this case, Topps literally holds all the cards. Topps is where your bread is buttered, and they know it. It's not like you can walk across the street and make the same money for some other parody card company. Because there is no competition, Topps doesn't have to sue you, or even threaten it. They'll just blackball you: Go ahead, make your little Halloween set... you'll never work for us again! You're stuck, they've got you, and there's nothing you're going to do about it. Oh, you could go to court with them (and even win, like Netscape did), but, you'll drown in all your legal bills. You'll be bankrupt, blackballed, and unemployable, but they'll still be producing WP and GPKs. What will you have gained? Nothing. It's a shitty business practice that's been around since the dawn of time.
Please don't take any of this as an indicment on the artists. Y'all gotta eat and pay bills. If you have to cancel a Halloween set to keep yourself employed, so be it. And, I don't blame you one bit because I would do the same thing.
Sure does cast a dark shadow over this weekend for me, though.
You have pretty much nailed all my thoughts. topps has been bungling along here making the wacky package market smaller and smaller with stupid decision after stupid decision. Of course they have a legal right to make stupid decisions and of course they are being bullies about it. The issue here is that wackys have been dormant many times and the door has been opened for other products to take root, those products have taken root and now topps wants to unroot them. Is it really legal to stop these spin offs that were allowed to get kicked off?
I stopped collecting new stuff when mustard colored borders and other stupid chase material was introduced. They were even stupid enough to saturate the market on the last viable chaser(sketches). When they pretty much ended the possibility of completionism, I was done on top of the fact that some of the product was garbage like the anniversary set.
I hadn't bought these spin off sets in awhile but I was lured back in and purchased Neil's recent set and also jumped back in with AlienJoy card, shirt and such. This could have possibly lead to my appetite to buy ANS wackys and OLDS sets going forward. I doubt I am the only collector who needed a kick in the ass to get back into wackys. I can say for sure, this cancellation of Neil's halloween set puts an end to my jumping back in.
Would we really be any worse off if Topps stopped making wackys(since they can't roll out a good affordable product anyway) and then the artists all did their own sets? Supports the artists, get better products, we get wackys.....win win win.....This latter state is inevitable as topps will continue to bungle the rollout of wackys, sooner than later would have been better!
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This whole situation sounds very similar to CBS's reaction to amateur Star Trek productions.
Huge difference in the Wacky case: none of these artists ever use the name Wacky Packages for their products. Most of those ST productions actually called themselves Star Trek. I've seen bunches of them, and was very surprised those 'amateurs' had so much balls (and so little brains) to actually use the ST name. Using that proprietary title on their own production was plumb dumb. They had nothing to cry about when CBS blew their houses down.
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I hardly think Neil's Halloween set was "competing" with Topps. It was Topps who cancelled the (overpriced) Halloween postcards in the first place!
This blows.
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You have pretty much nailed all my thoughts. topps has been bungling along here making the wacky package market smaller and smaller with stupid decision after stupid decision. Of course they have a legal right to make stupid decisions and of course they are being bullies about it. The issue here is that wackys have been dormant many times and the door has been opened for other products to take root, those products have taken root and now topps wants to unroot them. Is it really legal to stop these spin offs that were allowed to get kicked off?
I stopped collecting new stuff when mustard colored borders and other stupid chase material was introduced. They were even stupid enough to saturate the market on the last viable chaser(sketches). When they pretty much ended the possibility of completionism, I was done on top of the fact that some of the product was garbage like the anniversary set.
I hadn't bought these spin off sets in awhile but I was lured back in and purchased Neil's recent set and also jumped back in with AlienJoy card, shirt and such. This could have possibly lead to my appetite to buy ANS wackys and OLDS sets going forward. I doubt I am the only collector who needed a kick in the ass to get back into wackys. I can say for sure, this cancellation of Neil's halloween set puts an end to my jumping back in.
Would we really be any worse off if Topps stopped making wackys(since they can't roll out a good affordable product anyway) and then the artists all did their own sets? Supports the artists, get better products, we get wackys.....win win win.....This latter state is inevitable as topps will continue to bungle the rollout of wackys, sooner than later would have been better!
Silly Supermarket Stickers went through all kinds of trouble legally, and eventually they were allowed to produce for the mass market. Did that actually hurt Topps' bottom line? I doubt it. And that was mass market!! The Halloween packs were limited production, only for forum members, and with a $5 price point and maximum order of 5 packs, I can't see how any of us spending money on those would have impacted Old School 6 sales, as I am sure that $25 will not be the price point for Old School 6, making it a "one or the other" purchasing choice.
I am disgusted with what happened with all of this, and believe there is a lot of "cutting off your nose to spite your face" involved, with Wacky collectors the losers at the end. It has really ruined my enthusiasm for Old School 6. As I have said in the past, I used to buy more new Wackys than I really needed/wanted in order to support the brand, and hopefully encourage future Wacky sets from Topps. I don't know if I'll be doing that anymore.
And, if Topps goes so far as to kill ParoTees, which is in no way competition with their products, I might just stop buying Topps products altogether.
Note to Topps: The small fan-based stuff keeps collectors interested, especially during lulls in Topps releases, and can result in more customer interest and enthusiasm for your sets.
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How is a competing product NOT going to 'look like theirs'? Wackys are made to look like the product that they are spoofing. A competing parody would likewise look like the product they are spoofing. So, the competing parody would look like a Wacky? No, it would look like the product that it was spoofing.
These days, there is nothing that sets a Wacky apart.... nothing that 'makes it a Wacky'. Historically, you could argue the thick black border, but, anymore, they are simply parodies (and not always of products!). Colored borders? Sorry, Topps doesn't have a patent on color. Nobody owns red or yellow or silver or etc.
Not monopolizing all product parodies? It certainly is an attempt to, and I'm pretty sure everybody knows it. It's the same strongarm methods that Microsoft used when they tried to run Netscape out of the browser business. All because they couldn't handle a little competition (actually, Netscape was kicking their ass). Topps wants this same kind of domination.
In the Microsoft situation, Netscape initially gave them the middle finger because they had their own income and didn't rely on Microsoft for any of it. In this case, Topps literally holds all the cards. Topps is where your bread is buttered, and they know it. It's not like you can walk across the street and make the same money for some other parody card company. Because there is no competition, Topps doesn't have to sue you, or even threaten it. They'll just blackball you: Go ahead, make your little Halloween set... you'll never work for us again! You're stuck, they've got you, and there's nothing you're going to do about it. Oh, you could go to court with them (and even win, like Netscape did), but, you'll drown in all your legal bills. You'll be bankrupt, blackballed, and unemployable, but they'll still be producing WP and GPKs. What will you have gained? Nothing. It's a shitty business practice that's been around since the dawn of time.
Please don't take any of this as an indicment on the artists. Y'all gotta eat and pay bills. If you have to cancel a Halloween set to keep yourself employed, so be it. And, I don't blame you one bit because I would do the same thing.
Sure does cast a dark shadow over this weekend for me, though.
You can make a competing product that still spoofs products that does not look like a Wacky. Smokin Joe already did it and it's brilliant. Has nothing to do with WPs in a specific way and is it's own thing and still spoofs a product along with spoofing a monster just as equally AND would appeal to the same type of collector.
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Not really sure what to say to everyone. You are thinking with your hearts rather than heads on this which is understandable but in the end I disagree with you. If I came up with a successful product I would not want others aping that same product, using many, if not all, of the original ideas created to make that successful, have my current employees (and bitter ex employees) working on competing sets and selling directly to the same base as if they were the same product or an extension of that product. I give up. You are peeved but you are screwing Neil over more by boycotting WPs over his home-made stuff because that's his job. Making home-made sets,if Topps has to stop making WPs, is not going to pay his bills. They are side, small projects. None of this stuff should be being made until WP and GPK are on a break and even then they would have to be done as something that doesn't violate the creator's rights.
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well said, Dave. No one should boycott Topps or Wackys because of this issue,
enjoy what we got!
The Movie set looks very promising, even though I'm not a big movie-watcher myself
and hardly know of what new films are coming out, except for ones I tried to parody!
And is it "Wackys" or "Wackies," I've always been on the fence about that. I've been
told "Wackys" but it still doesn't seem right :P
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"Wackys" isn't grammatically correct. But then again, neither is "Fantastik" or other products with misspelled names. So in a sense, Wackys kind of fits.
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Not really sure what to say to everyone. You are thinking with your hearts rather than heads on this which is understandable but in the end I disagree with you. If I came up with a successful product I would not want others aping that same product, using many, if not all, of the original ideas created to make that successful, have my current employees (and bitter ex employees) working on competing sets and selling directly to the same base as if they were the same product or an extension of that product. I give up. You are peeved but you are screwing Neil over more by boycotting WPs over his home-made stuff because that's his job. Making home-made sets,if Topps has to stop making WPs, is not going to pay his bills. They are side, small projects. None of this stuff should be being made until WP and GPK are on a break and even then they would have to be done as something that doesn't violate the creator's rights.
Disagreeing with someone's opinion isn't going to sway them. So, I really can't see the justification behind your disagreeing. I would be amazed if I had come up with a product groundbreaking enough for other people to make great versions of the same as well. How come Samsung phones just like Apple haven't been s***canned because of Apple not getting their royalties? Or how about pencils? There are about five billion companies working out of sweatshops for pencil brands and you don't see the original inventor of the pencil calling copyright issues! The fact that anyone would say that Neil's or anyone else's parody card brands shouldn't be allowed because they are "Copying Wacky Packages" dumbfounds me to this day. If you want people to enjoy your sets instead of other sets, why don't you make them better??
Rant over.
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You can make a competing product that still spoofs products that does not look like a Wacky. Smokin Joe already did it and it's brilliant. Has nothing to do with WPs in a specific way and is it's own thing and still spoofs a product along with spoofing a monster just as equally AND would appeal to the same type of collector.
sure it CAN be done but stating it is required to be done to the detriment of killing popular spin offs that keep the fire burning in between Topps delays or topps bungled concepts is just flat out stupid.
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Not really sure what to say to everyone. You are thinking with your hearts rather than heads on this which is understandable but in the end I disagree with you. If I came up with a successful product I would not want others aping that same product, using many, if not all, of the original ideas created to make that successful, have my current employees (and bitter ex employees) working on competing sets and selling directly to the same base as if they were the same product or an extension of that product. I give up. You are peeved but you are screwing Neil over more by boycotting WPs over his home-made stuff because that's his job. Making home-made sets,if Topps has to stop making WPs, is not going to pay his bills. They are side, small projects. None of this stuff should be being made until WP and GPK are on a break and even then they would have to be done as something that doesn't violate the creator's rights.
Lost wacky sales are alive and well....hypocrisy rules, topps is run by tools. Maybe lost wackys were suddenly dumped en mass due to a tip off that crack downs were coming, get your money while you can?
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sure it CAN be done but stating it is required to be done to the detriment of killing popular spin offs that keep the fire burning in between Topps delays or topps bungled concepts is just flat out stupid.
It's not a spin off if you don't own it. It's a copy and it's illegal. What part of that do you not understand? If I work at Marvel on Spider-Man and either while I'm working there or after I leave I start putting out my own comic book called Man-Spider with a character named Peter Parkerberg wearing a red and blue suit with a web design and an upside down spider at the center who fights Dr. Squid and the Orange Goblin (not Trump BTW) do you think that is it's own product or a copy of Spiderman with just a few things altered to try to get away with it?
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Lost wacky sales are alive and well....hypocrisy rules, topps is run by tools. Maybe lost wackys were suddenly dumped en mass due to a tip off that crack downs were coming, get your money while you can?
Did you contact Topps about the Lost Wackys yet?
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Disagreeing with someone's opinion isn't going to sway them. So, I really can't see the justification behind your disagreeing. I would be amazed if I had come up with a product groundbreaking enough for other people to make great versions of the same as well. How come Samsung phones just like Apple haven't been s***canned because of Apple not getting their royalties? Or how about pencils? There are about five billion companies working out of sweatshops for pencil brands and you don't see the original inventor of the pencil calling copyright issues! The fact that anyone would say that Neil's or anyone else's parody card brands shouldn't be allowed because they are "Copying Wacky Packages" dumbfounds me to this day. If you want people to enjoy your sets instead of other sets, why don't you make them better??
Rant over.
You might want to bone up on what copyright even is. Copyright covers the manner of expression of ideas, not the design of useful objects (which would be a matter for patents).
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Disagreeing with someone's opinion isn't going to sway them. So, I really can't see the justification behind your disagreeing. I would be amazed if I had come up with a product groundbreaking enough for other people to make great versions of the same as well. How come Samsung phones just like Apple haven't been s***canned because of Apple not getting their royalties? Or how about pencils? There are about five billion companies working out of sweatshops for pencil brands and you don't see the original inventor of the pencil calling copyright issues! The fact that anyone would say that Neil's or anyone else's parody card brands shouldn't be allowed because they are "Copying Wacky Packages" dumbfounds me to this day. If you want people to enjoy your sets instead of other sets, why don't you make them better??
Rant over.
next time I disagree with you on anything, smack me in the head because you are probably in the right! you nailed it here! Just chalk this up to lack of vision for topps. they really are stupid enough not to see that these spin off sets keep the fire burning and result in more sales for them. Watch and see, they first thought they would just take sets like Neil's and make them topps delivered so they get their cut and keep control....then they will see it costs too much because something like Neil's set is straddled with topps overhead so the concept of keeping these spin off sets going will die.....then finally topps will stop making wackys....then the artists will start their spin offs again assuming too much time didn't pass to kill everything off. topps has to have their heads in the sand if they don't see wackys are dying a slow death. I wonder how Topps is doing financially overall. Aren't they privately held now as being public, the share prices would probably plummet due to failing sales across the board.
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next time I disagree with you on anything, smack me in the head because you are probably in the right! you nailed it here! Just chalk this up to lack of vision for topps. they really are stupid enough not to see that these spin off sets keep the fire burning and result in more sales for them. Watch and see, they first thought they would just take sets like Neil's and make them topps delivered so they get their cut and keep control....then they will see it costs too much because something like Neil's set is straddled with topps overhead so the concept of keeping these spin off sets going will die.....then finally topps will stop making wackys....then the artists will start their spin offs again assuming too much time didn't pass to kill everything off. topps has to have their heads in the sand if they don't see wackys are dying a slow death. I wonder how Topps is doing financially overall. Aren't they privately held now as being public, the share prices would probably plummet due to failing sales across the board.
Wait, what? Except all those examples are factually wrong. Patent issues/ copyright issues. Apples/ Oranges.
And I did point out that perhaps Topps will be interested in Neil's sets at some point. They just need to make sure the format works for them and us. That's where the online stuff is playing out. I'd say just be patient and see how that unfolds. I'm interested in seeing Neil's set as a real WP set same as you and will gladly push Topps on that issue when vacation time ends. And I'm in 100% agreement with you on one major thing. When Topps let us (me and Neil) do our own things in the past (Old School and the Postcard series) they turned out to be the most fan friendly sets Topps puts out. Why? because we know what you want to a tee and we are also fans ourselves. I've been doing WP art now for over 12 years. I know what I'm doing. I know what the fans want. Our suggestions are not poison. Hope Topps will open up with us making suggestions.
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No boycott plans here. Tough situation ; but let's support OS6 ; have some laughs and hope for the best.
Andrew
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Ignoring the fact that I have a vested interest in Old School (as all the other artists should have as well because a good selling OLDS makes other projects a go) if people have not like some of the recent offerings by Topps and if Old School is exactly the type of gags and art you want why would you boycott that? Then they are not going to do fan friendly sets anymore and they are going to push even more towards the modern kid friendly stuff they are now doing. If you are boycotting you boycott the actual products you don't like.
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"Orange Goblin (not Trump BTW)"
Shit like this isn't making you any friends either. Don't forget, there are 2 sides and a middle, and you're stepping on two of them.
Jim
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Shit like this isn't making you any friends either. Don't forget, there are 2 sides and a middle, and you're stepping on two of them.
Jim
What, you can't take a Trump joke? It was clearly a gag. Not to mention since when is this a me against others here. Think I've been pals with the majority of people here a helluva lot longer than you. Having a debate here doesn't change anything. I'm arguing with Ernie but we've done this tons of times and he's one of my best pals here.
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It's not a spin off if you don't own it. It's a copy and it's illegal. What part of that do you not understand? If I work at Marvel on Spider-Man and either while I'm working there or after I leave I start putting out my own comic book called Man-Spider with a character named Peter Parkerberg wearing a red and blue suit with a web design and an upside down spider at the center who fights Dr. Squid and the Orange Goblin (not Trump BTW) do you think that is it's own product or a copy of Spiderman with just a few things altered to try to get away with it?
What part of my comments don't you understand? topps can and DOES pick and choose its battles. I stated this was a stupid battle to pick and I will be proven right. I explained why I feel it was a stupid chose. I stated they had a legal right so your repeating it is illegal seems to indicate you aren't digesting my post.
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Ignoring the fact that I have a vested interest in Old School (as all the other artists should have as well because a good selling OLDS makes other projects a go) if people have not like some of the recent offerings by Topps and if Old School is exactly the type of gags and art you want why would you boycott that? Then they are not going to do fan friendly sets anymore and they are going to push even more towards the modern kid friendly stuff they are now doing. If you are boycotting you boycott the actual products you don't like.
People don't like to feel controlled. topps stupidly doesn't get that. We like Halloween wackys and potentially OLDS6. topps dictates to us you only get OLDS6, hence there will be backlash. Dont blame the fans for acting on their feelings, blame the idiots who made this decision.
Please stop only regurgitating the legal side of this as the legal side has nothing to do with the fan point of view. If you REALLY care that much about OLDS6 being successful and money being available to spend on it and topps copyright being protected, YOU as a worker for TOPPS call out Lost Wackys.....I personally don't care that matt is raking in all that money, it is a free country. I am just calling out the hypocrisy of the bogus crack down taking place.
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What part of my comments don't you understand? topps can and DOES pick and choose its battles. I stated this was a stupid battle to pick and I will be proven right. I explained why I feel it was a stupid chose. I stated they had a legal right so your repeating it is illegal seems to indicate you aren't digesting my post.
Let me get this straight. You are saying these are all illegal in the grand scheme of things correct? But they are only picking out specific people to target? So Steve Potter, Neil and Luis Diaz but not Mark Pingitore, Mark McCauley (and few other GPK sets) and Matt Stock? The question then is how do you know that they know about all these other things yet? They all may be different levels of problem. For instance Steve Potter was asked to stop and he stopped. Luis Diaz was asked to stop and he continued and now Topps is actually taking him to court. Some of these people are doing it on FB only, some on Ebay only, some specifically on GPK and WP forums. Those last ones are pretty in your face and probably the easiest to find out about. So you honestly don't know if they are picking and choosing any battles at this point. I seriously doubt they are checking FB, Instagram, Twitter and Ebay on a daily basis. But these sites I'm sure they've popped on to on occasion.
As far as me telling on Matt I'm not going to do that. I honestly don't care enough and I don't want him to get shut down. You are the person constantly talking about him and seem peeved about the Lost Wackys. It would be better if you did it. I've been tattled on to Topps on three different occasions all of which ended up being BS so I'm not going to do it to someone else. Luis, Mark, Neil and the other guys can fight there own battles with Topps. Honestly I hope they win because I want to make sets too! And yeah, I don't like either. I'm getting told the Old School sticker I made can't be used in the set because it resembles in name only some other parody card and then that I can't print up my one card yet everyone else is making their own cards and sets left and right! So they picked and chose me as well it looks like. They don't own Spaghettos so I can print it is I want but they would probably consider it like Neil's Halloween cards and come down on me so, for now, I'm not going to make any. When Topps is dormant on WPs then I can consider it.
Listen. I'm on your side on the emotional level. I want all these people to make sets. I want to make sets. I don't want their sets to interfere with the sets we all are making with Topps (a la certain people making them trying call out us as if we are stealing their designs which is what just happened in the case of Luis doing that to Brent. It was complete BS) and we are going to have a similar situation next week I think when the GPK Halloween online set comes out and when the We Hate The 80s GPK set comes out. What Topps should do is only let us (the people working with them) that being Neil, me and the other guys work up cool sets that work within a financial framework and are approved by them. Topps knows what's coming out and isn't taken by surprise, fans get what they want, the artists work and only the bootleg sets get shut down. A win win. Nothing is illegal or threatening at that point and all of us working within the system benefit (Topps, creators, fans).
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Ignoring the fact that I have a vested interest in Old School (as all the other artists should have as well because a good selling OLDS makes other projects a go) if people have not like some of the recent offerings by Topps and if Old School is exactly the type of gags and art you want why would you boycott that? Then they are not going to do fan friendly sets anymore and they are going to push even more towards the modern kid friendly stuff they are now doing. If you are boycotting you boycott the actual products you don't like.
Old School is what I want from Wackys and I will not be boycotting them. I hope the series is successful so we can see more of it. :great:
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What, you can't take a Trump joke? It was clearly a gag. Not to mention since when is this a me against others here. Think I've been pals with the majority of people here a helluva lot longer than you. Having a debate here doesn't change anything. I'm arguing with Ernie but we've done this tons of times and he's one of my best pals here.
Agreed that there should be no Dave against the world here. Dave did NOT make these decisions, we should not shoot the messenger. He is rationalizing topps point of view so we don't all run off speculating any further. We may not like it(clearly I don't) but I would be first in line to buy Dave a beer next time I see him!
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Let me get this straight. You are saying these are all illegal in the grand scheme of things correct? But they are only picking out specific people to target? So Steve Potter, Neil and Luis Diaz but not Mark Pingitore, Mark McCauley (and few other GPK sets) and Matt Stock? The question then is how do you know that they know about all these other things yet? They all may be different levels of problem. For instance Steve Potter was asked to stop and he stopped. Luis Diaz was asked to stop and he continued and now Topps is actually taking him to court. Some of these people are doing it on FB only, some on Ebay only, some specifically on GPK and WP forums. Those last ones are pretty in your face and probably the easiest to find out about. So you honestly don't know if they are picking and choosing any battles at this point. I seriously doubt they are checking FB, Instagram, Twitter and Ebay on a daily basis. But these sites I'm sure they've popped on to on occasion.
As far as me telling on Matt I'm not going to do that. I honestly don't care enough and I don't want him to get shut down. You are the person constantly talking about him and seem peeved about the Lost Wackys. It would be better if you did it. I've been tattled on to Topps on three different occasions all of which ended up being BS so I'm not going to do it to someone else. Luis, Mark, Neil and the other guys can fight there own battles with Topps. Honestly I hope they win because I want to make sets too! And yeah, I don't like either. I'm getting told the Old School sticker I made can't be used in the set because it resembles in name only some other parody card and then that I can't print up my one card yet everyone else is making their own cards and sets left and right! So they picked and chose me as well it looks like. They don't own Spaghettos so I can print it is I want but they would probably consider it like Neil's Halloween cards and come down on me so, for now, I'm not going to make any. When Topps is dormant on WPs then I can consider it.
Listen. I'm on your side on the emotional level. I want all these people to make sets. I want to make sets. I don't want their sets to interfere with the sets we all are making with Topps (a la certain people making them trying call out us as if we are stealing their designs which is what just happened in the case of Luis doing that to Brent. It was complete BS) and we are going to have a similar situation next week I think when the GPK Halloween online set comes out and when the We Hate The 80s GPK set comes out. What Topps should do is only let us (the people working with them) that being Neil, me and the other guys work up cool sets that work within a financial framework and are approved by them. Topps knows what's coming out and isn't taken by surprise, fans get what they want, the artists work and only the bootleg sets get shut down. A win win. Nothing is illegal or threatening at that point and all of us working within the system benefit (Topps, creators, fans).
I would love if your approach in the last paragraph took place but topps seems too disorganized and their judgment too sloppy for this well thought plan to take place. As I mentioned, I don't care if matt is making money on ebay, I am all for capitalism especially in spite of corporations. I just don't believe topps knows nothing about it. Either topps does or doesn't read this forum....pick one....
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Agreed that there should be no Dave against the world here. Dave did NOT make these decisions, we should not shoot the messenger. He is rationalizing topps point of view so we don't all run off speculating any further. We may not like it(clearly I don't) but I would be first in line to buy Dave a beer next time I see him!
Dude! Your one of my best pals here! I was wondering if we really were fighting or just debating! Ha. Seriously, I'm on your side I'm just trying to tell everyone why they did what they did! One more thing to be clear on one point and I think this is a big one. The crackdown seemed to really start when they told Luis to stop making his GPK stuff and he continued to make it. Then they sued him. If he goes to court and can prove they are selectively going after him and not others then that shows that Topps is not protecting their copyrights/ trademarks. A company MUST aggressively protect these things as they can actually lose them in certain situations. So the good guys have to go down with the "bad" guys.
I'm happy this debate happened BTW since I'm starting to really think getting Topps to have us come up with set ideas, present them with financial calculations and properly thought out plans would be a great way to go. A few Old School sets a year by me, holiday sets by Neil and so on. Maybe some good old normal modern day regular WP sets with no entertainment stuff on them as well. Leave that for the retail sets. The online sets would be for the longtime fans only. That's what I think everyone would want.
Let's move on from this please!
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As much as I am ired, miffed, and pissed about this turn of events, I do not believe a boycott would have the desired effect. In fact, as SlamJim pointed out, it might possibly have a detrimental effect in regard to future production. Adding machines don't speak; They only spit out the bottom line. And that's all that Topps would see. They would never know the why behind it. This would have to be communicated directly to Topps.
And as far as "hearts" go, heart is a large part of this. From what I've read on the forum, Neil Camera is great at curtailing negativity, and not only comes across as professional, but calm, cool, and collected. I admire him for this. (This is just my opinion, and I hope that I am not speaking out of line.) On the opposite end of the spectrum, though, his enthusiasm is unbridled and shines - no, pours - out like light. We fans have been excitedly waiting for his set, yet I believe Neil was probably more excited than everybody put together - not for profit or prestige, but simply because he knew he was going to make a lot of people happy, because he could offer a kindness. Think back to when he solicited suggestions for different types of cards, borders, etc.. Think back to his "Muah ha ha!"s. This is what Topps trampled underfoot. And in the overall scheme of things, this is the stuff that truly matters, that makes us who we are and provides us with direction through life, that bubbles back to the surface in old age giving us pause to remark, "Hey, remember when I did such and such? That was a really good thing."
No, heart does matter.
(Or maybe I'm just talking out of my ass and should just shut up.)
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I'm pretty new here and a newbie Wacky artist for sure, so I won't comment on what has transpired (and am actually in the dark about a lot of the details and history) but I can say that do I believe what you've written about Neil is true (and nicely worded!) While I was just doing sketch cards, Neil "friended" me on Facebook and in a couple of years has proven to me to be all you've written below. :great:
As much as I am ired, miffed, and pissed about this turn of events, I do not believe a boycott would have the desired effect. In fact, as SlamJim pointed out, it might possibly have a detrimental effect in regard to future production. Adding machines don't speak; They only spit out the bottom line. And that's all that Topps would see. They would never know the why behind it. This would have to be communicated directly to Topps.
And as far as "hearts" go, heart is a large part of this. From what I've read on the forum, Neil Camera is great at curtailing negativity, and not only comes across as professional, but calm, cool, and collected. I admire him for this. (This is just my opinion, and I hope that I am not speaking out of line.) On the opposite end of the spectrum, though, his enthusiasm is unbridled and shines - no, pours - out like light. We fans have been excitedly waiting for his set, yet I believe Neil was probably more excited than everybody put together - not for profit or prestige, but simply because he knew he was going to make a lot of people happy, because he could offer a kindness. Think back to when he solicited suggestions for different types of cards, borders, etc.. Think back to his "Muah ha ha!"s. This is what Topps trampled underfoot. And in the overall scheme of things, this is the stuff that truly matters, that makes us who we are and provides us with direction through life, that bubbles back to the surface in old age giving us pause to remark, "Hey, remember when I did such and such? That was a really good thing."
No, heart does matter.
(Or maybe I'm just talking out of my ass and should just shut up.)
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(http://i68.tinypic.com/2ecpwyq.gif)
Thank you for your efforts Neil.
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Thank you again for all you do!
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Sorry that you couldn't release the new Halloween Pack O' Fun, Neil. If you can't show us what would've been in it, can you at least tell us what would've been in it?
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"Candy" :]
(Okay, sorry for being a smart aleck.)
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On another note, Neil is already priming up for a future Halloween set. Maybe this year's titles will somehow be incorporated into that surprise?
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Nah, I'm putting the 2017 release to bed.
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Nah, I'm putting the 2017 release to bed.
Yeah, in bed six foot under. But maybe that's just as well, being it's Halloween. Sigh...
R.I.P.
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NOTE: I'm using their forum names and not their real names because I never met them before personally, so I feel I don't have the right to use their real names. As a matter a fact, I never met anyone here! I'm just a schmuck from Milwaukee!
If you're concerned about which name to use, I would suggest using the forum member's name to refer to a post by that forum member. So if Koduck writes a post and you respond, you would be responding to Koduck's post. If you are referring to an artist or the artist's work, I would refer to the artist by the artist's name. As you can see below, the title was done by "Neil Camera," not "Koduck."
(https://s1.postimg.org/4x1s8uoxaz/DSCN1441.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/4x1s8uoxaz/)
(https://s1.postimg.org/86exhhqwej/DSCN1442.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/86exhhqwej/)
To be honest, I don't know if there is any real protocol to follow - especially on a forum where members go by "Koduck," "Swiski," "Baked Bears," etc. - however I think what I suggested above makes a certain kind of sense. (Or maybe it really doesn't matter.)
Oh, and no, you are not a "schmuck" from Milwaukee. Please, don't disparage yourself that way! You're a "schmutz" from Milwaukee!
(https://s1.postimg.org/6ko69bt2uj/die-schmutz.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/6ko69bt2uj/)
;) (Sorry, man, but you set yourself up for that!)
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Nah, I'm putting the 2017 release to bed.
let matt get a hold of it, he can create ludlow backs, variations, and call it the most secret underground project ever!
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let matt get a hold of it, he can create ludlow backs, variations, and call it the most secret underground project ever!
THIS! I would buy from Matt!
jim
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If you're concerned about which name to use, I would suggest using the forum member's name to refer to a post by that forum member. So if Koduck writes a post and you respond, you would be responding to Koduck's post. If you are referring to an artist or the artist's work, I would refer to the artist by the artist's name. As you can see below, the title was done by "Neil Camera," not "Koduck."
(https://s1.postimg.org/4x1s8uoxaz/DSCN1441.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/4x1s8uoxaz/)
(https://s1.postimg.org/86exhhqwej/DSCN1442.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/86exhhqwej/)
To be honest, I don't know if there is any real protocol to follow - especially on a forum where members go by "Koduck," "Swiski," "Baked Bears," etc. - however I think what I suggested above makes a certain kind of sense. (Or maybe it really doesn't matter.)
Oh, and no, you are not a "schmuck" from Milwaukee. Please, don't disparage yourself that way! You're a "schmutz" from Milwaukee!
(https://s1.postimg.org/6ko69bt2uj/die-schmutz.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/6ko69bt2uj/)
;) (Sorry, man, but you set yourself up for that!)
Yup...and Schmutz was brewed in Milwaukee. I like that better!
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I haven't collected anything new since ANS 1 or 2. I really did like Neil's Pack o' Fun though. Sad to see it not being sold this year. What really gets me is that Topps is making the effort to stop this, but does nothing to make a pack that would stop pack searchers from ruining buying anything in the wild. It shows how little they care about the kid who buys packs in the store and has no idea what a pack searcher is. I would occasionally buy a pack when a new new series was released to maybe get lucky and get a sketch (I did in one of the early releases many years ago). But when I realized that every pack in the box was fanned out I stopped looking a long time ago. I don't know why anyone would buy a pack in the wild.
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People don't like to feel controlled. topps stupidly doesn't get that. We like Halloween wackys and potentially OLDS6. topps dictates to us you only get OLDS6, hence there will be backlash. Dont blame the fans for acting on their feelings, blame the idiots who made this decision.
Please stop only regurgitating the legal side of this as the legal side has nothing to do with the fan point of view. If you REALLY care that much about OLDS6 being successful and money being available to spend on it and topps copyright being protected, YOU as a worker for TOPPS call out Lost Wackys.....I personally don't care that matt is raking in all that money, it is a free country. I am just calling out the hypocrisy of the bogus crack down taking place.
I agree with Ernie on this one. You can't tell people not to be pissed off if they not getting something they want to get or were expecting to get. Common sense says keep the customer happy. Throwing them a little Halloween bone every year did that. Happy customers = buying customers. I guess they can look at it like protecting their copyright is top priority right now, but with every decision there will be a consequence. Did we have the right to get the Halloween stuff for the past few years...maybe not. But if it was an issue, they should have nixed it day 1. I think the horse already left the barn on this one.
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I would love if your approach in the last paragraph took place but topps seems too disorganized and their judgment too sloppy for this well thought plan to take place. As I mentioned, I don't care if matt is making money on ebay, I am all for capitalism especially in spite of corporations. I just don't believe topps knows nothing about it. Either topps does or doesn't read this forum....pick one....
If they don't read this forum then how did they know about the Halloween packs? Weren't they only advertised on this forum and PM's? I know some older series are sold on ebay, but if they are looking at ebay, then they would see the other bootleg stuff one would think.
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If they don't read this forum then how did they know about the Halloween packs? Weren't they only advertised on this forum and PM's? I know some older series are sold on ebay, but if they are looking at ebay, then they would see the other bootleg stuff one would think.
The only logical conclusion is that someone complained about the halloween packs. Topps did not find out by sifting thru this forum. From an outsider looking in, it strikes me that the artist world is a cutthroat world who want attention from their sugar daddy(topps). Someone in defending themselves or looking out for themselves mentioned this set and topps reacted. Given that Topps doesn't read this forum, it is fair to assume they have no idea the customers here are angry so we can't fault Topps for that ignorance. WE can't assume any artists here are conveying this displeasure to Topps either.
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Keep in mind, with the pending lawsuit Topps has against the GPK rip off, they HAVE TO BE CONSISTENT; i.e. HAD NC's stuff had a look and feel and let it go, it COULD have blown their other case.... Just my thoughts
It is done and over - I am frustrated as well, but it is time to move forward - He will be doing a 2018 Set!
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Keep in mind, with the pending lawsuit Topps has against the GPK rip off, they HAVE TO BE CONSISTENT; i.e. HAD NC's stuff had a look and feel and let it go, it COULD have blown their other case.... Just my thoughts
It is done and over - I am frustrated as well, but it is time to move forward - He will be doing a 2018 Set!
I don't have any point of reference on any lawsuits Topps has filed but if they are in fact "being consistent" and trying to curtail all knockoffs of wackys, they sure have done a crappy job as Lost wackys are all over ebay and these private sets have existed for years. Is it a legal fact that Topps has this consistency concern or just a bunch of speculation here? I really doubt some small spinoffs of 100 sets or less of anything would count as not being consistent as nobody has time to chase down every little knockoff.
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I don't have any point of reference on any lawsuits Topps has filed but if they are in fact "being consistent" and trying to curtail all knockoffs of wackys, they sure have done a crappy job as Lost wackys are all over ebay and these private sets have existed for years. Is it a legal fact that Topps has this consistency concern or just a bunch of speculation here? I really doubt some small spinoffs of 100 sets or less of anything would count as not being consistent as nobody has time to chase down every little knockoff.
There may be a difference in how Topps reacts to Lost Wackys which feature previously created unpublished wackys and Newly created parody's which look like wackys and were and produced/ sold by their own artists. Lost Wackys may be viewed as a "Tribute" while the Newly created sets may be viewed as Competition.
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There may be a difference in how Topps reacts to Lost Wackys which feature previously created unpublished wackys and Newly created parody's which look like wackys and were and produced/ sold by their own artists. Lost Wackys may be viewed as a "Tribute" while the Newly created sets may be viewed as Competition.
Lost wackys are a direct infringement on copyright as they are images created by topps whether used or not. The distribution and selling of them is direct competition for consumer $. I will enjoy watching topps lose their lawsuits because they allowed this to happen. I don't believe they have no idea about the lost wackys. As a tribute to wackys, I am going to start printing up and selling shirts, let's see how well that is received.
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Lost wackys are a direct infringement on copyright as they are images created by topps whether used or not. The distribution and selling of them is direct competition for consumer $. I will enjoy watching topps lose their lawsuits because they allowed this to happen. I don't believe they have no idea about the lost wackys. As a tribute to wackys, I am going to start printing up and selling shirts, let's see how well that is received.
Yeah, the word 'tribute' is not a good choice. Infringement is infringement if the company that is being infringed upon chooses to act on it.
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Yeah, the word 'tribute' is not a good choice. Infringement is infringement if the company that is being infringed upon chooses to act on it.
My point is Topps may view Lost Wacky's differently than other releases that look like wackies.
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My point is Topps may view Lost Wacky's differently than other releases that look like wackies.
...and my point is that it exactly goes against consistent protection of the copyright assuming such consistency is actually necessary. There is no way I can see how Neil's halloween sets are more of an infringement than someone taking actual titles created by topps and printing and distributing them for profit like was done with lost wackys.
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I'm happy this debate happened BTW since I'm starting to really think getting Topps to have us come up with set ideas, present them with financial calculations and properly thought out plans would be a great way to go. A few Old School sets a year by me, holiday sets by Neil and so on. Maybe some good old normal modern day regular WP sets with no entertainment stuff on them as well. Leave that for the retail sets. The online sets would be for the longtime fans only. That's what I think everyone would want.
That sounds great to me!