Wacky Packages Forum
Trading Post => Buy Requests for Wacky Packages => Topic started by: DynamicTwo on July 17, 2016, 01:22:16 PM
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I am still looking to buy more unopened OS 1- 16 wacky packages boxes. I have a series 1 1973 pack to trade for my wants. I will also bring my unopened box dups to the National Sports Collectors Convention in Atlantic City spot 141 or 145 between August 3 - 7 at the convention center in A,C,
Hey Dave, I know you are an unopened pack collector; any unopened boxes for sale? Know of anyone who does?
Best,
Steve
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I am still looking to buy more unopened OS 1- 16 wacky packages boxes. I have a series 1 1973 pack to trade for my wants. I will also bring my unopened box dups to the National Sports Collectors Convention in Atlantic City spot 141 or 145 between August 3 - 7 at the convention center in A,C,
Hey Dave, I know you are an unopened pack collector; any unopened boxes for sale? Know of anyone who does?
Best,
Steve
Good luck with that... A series 1 pack won't get you much even though it's rare...
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I am still looking to buy more unopened OS 1- 16 wacky packages boxes. I have a series 1 1973 pack to trade for my wants. I will also bring my unopened box dups to the National Sports Collectors Convention in Atlantic City spot 141 or 145 between August 3 - 7 at the convention center in A,C,
Hey Dave, I know you are an unopened pack collector; any unopened boxes for sale? Know of anyone who does?
Best,
Steve
Other than the party you are already familiar with, I don't know anyone who is looking to sell. I do know someone who has a lot of boxes, but no plans to sell as far as I know.
I personally sold off all of my full boxes several years ago. At one point I had 2nd,3rd,6th,7th, 9th,10th, 12th,14th and 15th. I actually opened the 15th series packs, which was incredibly fun and yielded some nice stickers!
(https://s19.postimg.org/bk1waofqb/image.jpg)
(https://s19.postimg.org/lg2zablib/image.jpg)
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Other than the party you are already familiar with, I don't know anyone who is looking to sell. I do know someone who has a lot of boxes, but no plans to sell as far as I know.
I personally sold off all of my full boxes several years ago. At one point I had 2nd,3rd,6th,7th, 9th,10th, 12th,14th and 15th. I actually opened the 15th series packs, which was incredibly fun and yielded some nice stickers!
(https://s19.postimg.org/bk1waofqb/image.jpg)
(https://s19.postimg.org/lg2zablib/image.jpg)
Oh wow, I would have loved to be there to watch you open the 15th series packs!! That's the only series I ever had a box of - used birthday money. Sadly, I didn't keep the box or the wrappers.
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Oh wow, I would have loved to be there to watch you open the 15th series packs!! That's the only series I ever had a box of - used birthday money. Sadly, I didn't keep the box or the wrappers.
It actually worked out pretty well financially too. I was into the box for I think $1250, I kept the nicest set and sold the remaining dupes to Greg for upwards of $600. So for $600 and change I got three 8s, twelve 9s and a 10, as well as a really nice puzzle.
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It actually worked out pretty well financially too. I was into the box for I think $1250, I kept the nicest set and sold the remaining dupes to Greg for upwards of $600. So for $600 and change I got three 8s, twelve 9s and a 10, as well as a really nice puzzle.
The full boxes I had back in the day were a 10th and a 16th.
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The full boxes I had back in the day were a 10th and a 16th.
Yeah, series 7 gumless, 9,10 and 14 used to be really common.
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Thanks Dave. I won't be set up at the next Philly show as I will be on vacation again. I have picked up some terrific unopened boxes over the past few months, including some tough ones. I now feel that I can approximate the value of all Wacky boxes, except for 16th series. What do you think a full series 16 would sell for in 2016 dollars?
Also, regarding someone's comments about the value and rarity of the 1973 series 1 packs, I have been looking for and selling Wackys now since the mid 1970s. Why do I constantly see unopened 1967 packs for sale (4 in the last 6 months) but never see any 1973 series 1s? Maybe because of the value of the big 1967 cards, and the possibility of getting them in a pack. Yes lower in value but seems to me to be tougher to find. So I guess I am in agreement there. Good point!!
Steve
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Thanks Dave. I won't be set up at the next Philly show as I will be on vacation again. I have picked up some terrific unopened boxes over the past few months, including some tough ones. I now feel that I can approximate the value of all Wacky boxes, except for 16th series. What do you think a full series 16 would sell for in 2016 dollars?
Also, regarding someone's comments about the value and rarity of the 1973 series 1 packs, I have been looking for and selling Wackys now since the mid 1970s. Why do I constantly see unopened 1967 packs for sale (4 in the last 6 months) but never see any 1973 series 1s? Maybe because of the value of the big 1967 cards, and the possibility of getting them in a pack. Yes lower in value but seems to me to be tougher to find. So I guess I am in agreement there. Good point!!
Steve
How is it you feel you can assess the value on items will so little in the way of transactions? I really doubt you can accurately project the selling price on anything close to a consistent basis for full wacky pack boxes. I notice you use the word "unopened" is that meant to be distinguishable from "full" boxes? Wouldn't hard core collectors want boxes with their original packs with the correct distribution of ads and folds in the box? We all know a large number of these "full" boxes were cobbled together with packs from all sorts of sources. I think you have a small number of players in this full box market(relatively speaking) and I bet some are trying to make a market by supporting the prices in bidding on or buying ones they already have.
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Good luck with that... A series 1 pack won't get you much even though it's rare...
What is your definition of "much"? If $500 to $1000 or possible more isn't much, then I guess you'd be right but I bet a full 7th box would sell for less than a series 1 pack.
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I totally agree that legitimate 1st series packs are rarer than die cut packs. I have no idea what they would sell for today, but certainly north of $500 in nice shape. Die cut packs are still worth more due to the value of the contents.
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I totally agree that legitimate 1st series packs are rarer than die cut packs. I have no idea what they would sell for today, but certainly north of $500 in nice shape. Die cut packs are still worth more due to the value of the contents.
Diecut packs are worth more only because it seems the same few people run them up. I think once Eric is happy with his graded diecut set, the prices will fall a bit, he is settling the market on these.
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What is your definition of "much"? If $500 to $1000 or possible more isn't much, then I guess you'd be right but I bet a full 7th box would sell for less than a series 1 pack.
Then how come they never show up? They might be cheap if they do, but if they don't come out that much then the demand increases, right?
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Then how come they never show up? They might be cheap if they do, but if they don't come out that much then the demand increases, right?
They never show up because there aren't that many left around, and most of the people that have the ones that are left don't need the money.
And I don't know where you got the idea they'd be cheap, that would certainly not be the case.
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All excellent points. I am convinced that I know enough about the value of unopened non sports (including wacky packages) to approximate value very closely. I would pay a minimum of $1,000 for ANY unopened or full box of Wacky packages, including the common ones such as series 14. I think that those that used to be common have long burst that bubble and will sell for $1,000+ in an ebay auction. Obviously I would prefer a box that has not been pieced together, but will accept full boxes as long as the accompanying gum is not broken. That has always been my guide to buying unopened boxes: no broken gum or suspicious packs or box.
I also agree with Dave that a real series 1 1973 pack will sell north of $500, but more than a series 7 box with no gum. Not likely because I consider a 7 series no gum now worth well north of $1,000. Yes, there is very little documentation on the value of boxes in the past few years, and ER keeps buying the valuable ones. I will have many unopened boxes with me at the National in AC so stop by to buy or sell me more. I will have two Beatles 1960s boxes, Green Hornet, Gomer Pyle plus at least 7 OS 1973-5 Wacky boxes.
I will also have a special on Beatles packs from the 60s. NM/packs for $250. or all ten for $2300.
Steve
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They never show up because there aren't that many left around, and most of the people that have the ones that are left don't need the money.
And I don't know where you got the idea they'd be cheap, that would certainly not be the case.
Bandache said a box is cheaper than a series 1 pack, which obviously makes those packs even cheaper. While that may not be the case, I'm just taking everyone else's words for it... I don't know as much as everyone else.
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A lot changes in 10 years. In 2002, Bandaches and I both purchased series 9 and 10 full boxes from the same seller for $200-300 each. That seller also had a ton of loose packs from these series, but that supply has finally dried up.
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Bandache said a box is cheaper than a series 1 pack, which obviously makes those packs even cheaper. While that may not be the case, I'm just taking everyone else's words for it... I don't know as much as everyone else.
obviously makes what packs even cheaper, series 7 packs? Of course those are cheaper than series 1 packs.
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All excellent points. I am convinced that I know enough about the value of unopened non sports (including wacky packages) to approximate value very closely. I would pay a minimum of $1,000 for ANY unopened or full box of Wacky packages, including the common ones such as series 14. I think that those that used to be common have long burst that bubble and will sell for $1,000+ in an ebay auction. Obviously I would prefer a box that has not been pieced together, but will accept full boxes as long as the accompanying gum is not broken. That has always been my guide to buying unopened boxes: no broken gum or suspicious packs or box.
I also agree with Dave that a real series 1 1973 pack will sell north of $500, but more than a series 7 box with no gum. Not likely because I consider a 7 series no gum now worth well north of $1,000. Yes, there is very little documentation on the value of boxes in the past few years, and ER keeps buying the valuable ones. I will have many unopened boxes with me at the National in AC so stop by to buy or sell me more. I will have two Beatles 1960s boxes, Green Hornet, Gomer Pyle plus at least 7 OS 1973-5 Wacky boxes.
I will also have a special on Beatles packs from the 60s. NM/packs for $250. or all ten for $2300.
Steve
This suggests all of your full wacky pack boxes will have asking prices over $1000 as clearly you are not going to sell for less than you would buy. I think you will be taking several(if not all) of those boxes home with you.
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Good point but what will be will be. I never put all of my eggs in one basket. If I don't sell any wacky boxes, such is life. The Wackys are truly less than 1% of what I bring to a large show. But one never knows what they will do at any show, or what they will sell. The last Philly show was my best show at that location in 5 to 10 years. Best regards, Steve
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Good point but what will be will be. I never put all of my eggs in one basket. If I don't sell any wacky boxes, such is life. The Wackys are truly less than 1% of what I bring to a large show. But one never knows what they will do at any show, or what they will sell. The last Philly show was my best show at that location in 5 to 10 years. Best regards, Steve
What stand were you at and what did you sell?
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What stand were you at and what did you sell?
Steve has a very noticeable wall of empty sports and non-sports display boxes. At the Allentown show, he had 12th and 14th series wacky full boxes as well as the usual assortment of sports and non-sport unopened packs and wrappers.
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Steve has a very noticeable wall of empty sports and non-sports display boxes. At the Allentown show, he had 12th and 14th series wacky full boxes as well as the usual assortment of sports and non-sport unopened packs and wrappers.
Oh okay, I saw him then. I didn't see the 12th box but I did notice the 14th.
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Good point but what will be will be. I never put all of my eggs in one basket. If I don't sell any wacky boxes, such is life. The Wackys are truly less than 1% of what I bring to a large show. But one never knows what they will do at any show, or what they will sell. The last Philly show was my best show at that location in 5 to 10 years. Best regards, Steve
What boxes will you be offering and what prices?
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Wow. So many questions.
1 -- Dave seems to know my display well. I focus on items from $1 to up to $10,000 and up. My focus is on the 1880s to the 1980s. I probably have the largest display of Zeenuts cards from the 1910s to 1930s. They are all minor league baseball with many stars and superstars. I just picked up over 300 new Sweet Caporal P2 pins with over 80 hall of famers including 4 Cobbs and many rare ones. I have many sets including over 500 non sports sets from 1930s to 1980s, most earlier than later. I have many rare Topps test cards non sports and sports. Some perfect 10's. When I have a large show, I put up a very large display of empty display boxes and unopened wax boxes. I try my best to stand out, and I am often told, even at an 600 to 800 booth show like the National that I have the one of the best displays. My display will include vintage baseball (even a T205 set), vintage football, basketball, hockey, Golf, Tennis and Boxing. I have a selection of almost everything; As I said, I am one of the survivors from the 1970s, and I have also personally run over 300 baseball card and comic book shows. I have set up at thousands of shows over the years.
2 -- So what did I sell at the last Philly show? 6 empty original "expensive" display boxes including a Lost in Space, James Bond and Gilligans Island. I had a repeat customer who bought many Bread labels including 2 expensive James Bond bread labels and 10 to 15 others. I sold 2 rather expensive baseball cards, which I can't even remember which ones they were. While I don't truly focus on non sports from the 1880s, I did sell a number of such cards to one customer. I sold 10-20 cards from my non sports books, which I have 5 large books, and wrappers from my seven books of wrappers.
When I got home, there was already a message from a new show customer to buy 2 more expensive empty wax boxes, which he did.
I really can't remember what else.
3 -- At this National, I will be putting up a display of at least 8 showcases and the full display of Unopened and empty display boxes. At least 2 or 3 of my showcases will be fully NON Sports. I will also have 5 to 7 boxes of All Star, World Series, Super Bowl, NY Yankees, NY Mets, Brooklyn Dodgers, and NY Giants Programs and Yearbook. I have some very rare ones which are autographed such as the 1st Yankee yearbook, and MINT copies of the 1962 Mets Yearbook and Program, and the rare press guide, and every one of the Yankees and Mets yeqarbooks, Most Dodgers and many Giants.
4-- I also have a new addition to my display. After 40 years in business, I now have an alarm system that will be watching 360 degrees of my display. Once in a while, something disappears, so now I will be able to immediately determine who took an item by using my IPhone or IPad. When I thought I lost several big time items in the past year, I bought this system, but I have to admit that the items were both found eventually 6 to 9 months later. Still, it will protect me from such occurrences.
5 -- Yes, I will be selling all of my Wacky boxes for more than $1,000 each, but I already consider them inventory, so I am not in the least concerned if I take them home with me. I would like to sell some but again, if I don't -- such is life. I'll respond to any other questions later this week or next, as I am in the process of buying two to three more boxes and would prefer not to count them in until they arrive.
6 - I have two half page ads in the latest The Wrapper, issue #300, so you can get my e-mail and telephone and booth numbers at the A.C. show in those ads.
Happy hunting and sorry to elaborate, but I was primarily answering questions.
Steve Sabow
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Wow. So many questions.
I can't make it to Atlantic City, so where else will you be with a large display?
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I can't make it to Atlantic City, so where else will you be with a large display?
Steve, will you be at the East Coast National in White Plains in August?
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I can't make it to Atlantic City, so where else will you be with a large display?
What wacky packages boxes will you have in AC and what are their prices?
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More answers to posed questions:
1 -- Sorry, but I am not scheduled for any shows after the National in the first week in August. I will eventually do another Allentown show and will also do some more White Plains shows. I live only 20 minutes from the White Plains show. But doing 6 days in Atlantic City is enough for me for this summer.
2 -- I buy based on the following assumptions.
-- I consider any OS unopened high quality pack to be worth $40 to $50 and up each. I consider any graded OS pack in grades 7 or above to be worth at least $50 + up. All of my full boxes are high quality; I don't buy junk.
-- I will only buy boxes when I don't have 2 of that one in inventory.
-- I will bring at least one of each of the following boxes (maybe 2 to 5 others which I am working on right now): 7, 7 no gum, 12, 14, and 15. Probably at least 2 to 5 more.
-- I am primarily a face to face dealer, but I can work with sales through the mail after August 7th, when I return from the National.
-- I also am buying packs that I personally need, which include: 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 and 16. BUT I will also buy high quality ones that I already have as they would then become inventory.
Using the following assumptions, you should be able to approximate what I would be selling a box for. One other assumption, I put a premium on full complete boxes (1) because of the value of the empty box, and (2) the fact that there are 48 complete high quality packs in one place.
NOTE: If you disagree with my assumptions, then go online and study the sales of OS packs and you have another solution: Just sell me your boxes at $1,000 each.
At this writing, I have enough stock on several series. So please contact me in advance if you have boxes to sell me and will be bringing them to the National between August 3 - 7. I wouldn't want you to waste a trip to New Jersey. My ads in The Wrapper have my contact information.
Best regards, and also NOTE that I will be working full time on the National starting this Sunday, so I may not check in here too much to answer any other comments.
Finally, if you have something negative to say, please contact me at my e-mail address or telephone number, rather than in an open forum. I have always been impressed with this web site versus the Net 54 one where negativity is quite frequent.
Happy hunting, and best regards,
Steve
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It seems like it's time that the unopened product/display box end of the hobby made some gains value wise. This stuff was never easily available, but it's certainly become way less so in the last 5-7 years. I don't agree with Steve that every nice original series unopened pack is worth $50, but I do think that the tougher ones are probably worth way more than any of us thought, and especially nice display boxes. Some of the tougher boxes (such as the cloth or the wacky ads boxes) are easily as rare as Action #1 in high grade. The only question is where the demand end of that lies, and it's hard to tell when they never become available for sale.
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Okay, I will back up a little and put OS Series 14 in a category by itself, as it is the only common one that still turns up but not as frequently as in the past. That is why I made the statement that every OS pack was worth at least $40 to $50 and above.
I did pick up a full box of graded 14s about 3 to 5 years ago, and I never sold one of them for less than $35; they were all graded 7s or 8s and above. I still have about half a box of them left and they still continue to sell at approximately $40 to $75 for me depending on their grade. Dave, I showed some of them to you before at the Allentown show.
I have also had a number of series 7 packs ungraded for sale, and always got around $40 for them. I still have a few left.
But it is now 2016 and the market has completely dried up for large amounts of unopened OS Wackys. That is why the value of unopened OS packs and boxes is hard to pinpoint exactly, as there are sales that are few and far between. BUT the facts remain that they are worth more than they were 2 years ago. If you use the facts from 2 years ago, you need to multiply those figures by a decent percentage.
SO what would a nice Series 1 box sell for? One would probably go back 2 years and say "$7,000"? Not -- I would bet it would sell well north of $10,000, probably north of $20,000.
What do you think Dave? Also, can you imagine a sale without the one big buyer driving the price up? Then likely $12,000 to $15,000.
I have many people looking to find boxes for me, so yes I have turned up 11 boxes over the past few months, but I have only been able to buy 7 of them. The others got away but may return to me eventually if I made the highest offer.
Regards,
Steve
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I will admit that pretty much all of my pack sources have now dried up, but I was routinely able to buy nice series 6, 7, 9, 10, 12, 14 and 15 packs, sometimes in quantity, for $20-25 up through about two years ago. Again, those sources have dried up now, so we need to see some packs auctioned to see where the market is.
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It's also possible that you're able to get $40-50 for these packs simply by setting that price and sticking to it. If you don't mind taking awhile longer to sell them, I can believe that's possible. Now that it's not that easy to replace these there's not much point in blowing them out.
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It's also possible that you're able to get $40-50 for these packs simply by setting that price and sticking to it. If you don't mind taking awhile longer to sell them, I can believe that's possible. Now that it's not that easy to replace these there's not much point in blowing them out.
I don't consider sitting on a price that is only executed once in a blue moon when the right buyer comes along as "market value". Packs have been selling for under the $40-$50 range even in the last two years. I know a 12th pack sold for like $30 not long ago and blue poster pack has had the price drop to $20 just to try to find a buyer. I think Eric and Steve have made a market in packs. That is not the definition of market value.
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I fully agree that market value needs many inputs and the fact that one person sells a pack for $40 while another sells a pack for $20 has value in that calculation but it needs more inputs to get a true median. I would argue that you need a minimum of 5 or 6 sales and preferably ten or more to come up with good medians. I would also argue that taking an average of the inputs is not the best idea either because it could be influenced by one large or small sale, that would overstate or understate the average.
So, I contend that in the past 2 to 3 years, there have not been enough sales of packs or boxes to get a true market value. That is probably why Dave has not attempted to update his list of box values. I looked at those values several months ago and came up with approximate values for every box. I would eagerly pay those values right now for any series 1 - 16 box.
For example, look at what Dave's list says for a series 2 or 3 box, and then look at the results of the full and half boxes of series "2" on eBay a while back. Would similar boxes sell for as much? Possibly, but what if there were 5 or 6 more boxes of the same series out there? After 5 or 6 such auctions, the price would likely nosedive but that can't be proven because most boxes, if they still exist, are in the hands of other collectors, and either they don't exist or they are not parting with them.
So what have we gained from this exercise? Not very much if anything, except my "theory" is that the value of "most" OS unopened boxes has doubled or tripled or more in the past 2 to 3 years, due to lack of product availability.
One last possibility: Lack of interest? I sold all of my sets years ago. Now I am buying up full boxes and if and when I have them all, will I also lose interest? Probably not until I retire from selling at shows, if then.
Best regards,
Steve
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I fully agree that market value needs many inputs and the fact that one person sells a pack for $40 while another sells a pack for $20 has value in that calculation but it needs more inputs to get a true median. I would argue that you need a minimum of 5 or 6 sales and preferably ten or more to come up with good medians. I would also argue that taking an average of the inputs is not the best idea either because it could be influenced by one large or small sale, that would overstate or understate the average.
So, I contend that in the past 2 to 3 years, there have not been enough sales of packs or boxes to get a true market value. That is probably why Dave has not attempted to update his list of box values. I looked at those values several months ago and came up with approximate values for every box. I would eagerly pay those values right now for any series 1 - 16 box.
For example, look at what Dave's list says for a series 2 or 3 box, and then look at the results of the full and half boxes of series "2" on eBay a while back. Would similar boxes sell for as much? Possibly, but what if there were 5 or 6 more boxes of the same series out there? After 5 or 6 such auctions, the price would likely nosedive but that can't be proven because most boxes, if they still exist, are in the hands of other collectors, and either they don't exist or they are not parting with them.
So what have we gained from this exercise? Not very much if anything, except my "theory" is that the value of "most" OS unopened boxes has doubled or tripled or more in the past 2 to 3 years, due to lack of product availability.
One last possibility: Lack of interest? I sold all of my sets years ago. Now I am buying up full boxes and if and when I have them all, will I also lose interest? Probably not until I retire from selling at shows, if then.
Best regards,
Steve
Where is Dave's box value list?
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This is what I wrote six years ago. Even before recent sales I would have increased these prices by 30-50%.
1st series: non-existent
2nd, 3rd, 4th: all very hard to find, generally command $2000-3000 unless in terrible shape
5th: tougher than 6th and up, but not as tough as earliest series, around $1250-1500
6th, 7th: more common, around $600-750, possible less for the 7th gumless which is common
8th: tougher to find than you would think for some reason, I never had one, still probably under $1000
9th and 10th: pretty common, there was a seller at the Philly show years ago who had several of each, I paid only
$250 apiece for one of each, should sell for around $500 in my opinion
11th: non-existent
12th: lots of packs around, not as many full boxes, around $1000-$1200
13th: tougher, never owned one, probably similar to 12th in price
14th: one of the most common, $400-ish
15th: not terribly rare, but the 15th set has value, so still around $1000-1200
16th: obviously very volatile due to set volatility, couldn't venture a guess
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Incidentally, there are now 2 known 11th series full boxes that I am aware of.
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One problem in assessing full box value is how much of a "full box premium" exists. There has been a huge runup in sports full boxes in recent years, to the point where full boxes sell for significantly more than the aggregate pack value in many cases.
Here is a revised estimate on full box values, but I can't really support these opinions.
2nd: $5000-6000
3rd, 4th: $3500-5000
5th: $1500-2000
6th, 7th: 1000
8th: $1500-1750
9th, 10th: $1000
11th: $5000-6000
12th: $1500-1750
13th: $1500-2000
14th: $1000
15th: $1250-$1500
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Dave, Thanks as always. I would actually buy most of the boxes you list at the prices you have stated. That is not to say that the prices are low, but at least we now have an excellent starting point.
US Postal Express showed up about an hour ago, and I now have another very difficult full box that I will also bring to this year's National in Atlantic City next week. I will now have an unopened Series 13 original series Wacky Packages box at my booths 141 and 145 facing the case break area.
Not many collectors have actually seen or owned a series 13 box. I don't even know if I ever had one, as most of my boxes in the early 80s I sold to Mark Macaluso because he paid the most for them.
Best regards,
Steve
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Congrats Steve. Yes, I have never seen a 13th full box either. In fact, it's the only series other than the 1st for which that's true.
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One problem in assessing full box value is how much of a "full box premium" exists. There has been a huge runup in sports full boxes in recent years, to the point where full boxes sell for significantly more than the aggregate pack value in many cases.
Here is a revised estimate on full box values, but I can't really support these opinions.
2nd: $5000-6000
3rd, 4th: $3500-5000
5th: $1500-2000
6th, 7th: 1000
8th: $1500-1750
9th, 10th: $1000
11th: $5000-6000
12th: $1500-1750
13th: $1500-2000
14th: $1000
15th: $1250-$1500
5th, 8th and 11th prices are shocking to me as the contents are worth so much less. Would someone really choose owning an 11th series full box over strong grade Ratz and Cracked combo or a piece of original series art which all would be "valued" in that range? I am not so sure.
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I know what you mean, but a 1971 baseball full box sold at auction for $70,000+ recently. That's 24 packs, and a display box I bought in high grade for $125. That comes out to nearly $3000 per pack, and loose packs would not sell anywhere close to that. I think for hard to find full boxes there is a significant rarity premium, provided the demand is there at least. I think that's the real wildcard with wackys.
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I can see your point most for 8th series. Because even though full boxes are pretty tough, packs are copious. Someone could create a full box with those GAI packs from Probstein and BBCE would wrap it as long as the packs are legit. But once you factor in $300 for the box, $1200-1450 for 48 packs is only $25-30 per pack. A bit high but not crazy.
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I know what you mean, but a 1971 baseball full box sold at auction for $70,000+ recently. That's 24 packs, and a display box I bought in high grade for $125. That comes out to nearly $3000 per pack, and loose packs would not sell anywhere close to that. I think for hard to find full boxes there is a significant rarity premium, provided the demand is there at least. I think that's the real wildcard with wackys.
Is the spike you are seeing in baseball cards mainly mid to late 1960s thru early 1970's? My theory is that those are recently retired nostalgic collectors with money and boredom. I gave my brother a Ryan rookie card for his birthday like 35 years ago as he honed in on Ryan as his favorite player(and liked the Astros cool Jersey) even though he was marginally into baseball. I got it graded for him about a decade ago(PSA7) and it was worth a few hundred, now suddenly it is worth a few thousand.
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I can see your point most for 8th series. Because even though full boxes are pretty tough, packs are copious. Someone could create a full box with those GAI packs from Probstein and BBCE would wrap it as long as the packs are legit. But once you factor in $300 for the box, $1200-1450 for 48 packs is only $25-30 per pack. A bit high but not crazy.
Would an 8th box sell for $300? Didn't one sell within the last year on ebay for far less? 4th and 5th blues sold recently for well under $200 and I would think those are more desirable.
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By the way, I do sell sports and other non sports unopened boxes with a price of up to and exceeding $10,000. I have seen some crazy prices obtained in auctions for such unopened sports boxes. The wild card is definitely availability and demand. The demand far exceeds the supply.
But if you want to put together a series 5 or 8 box and sell it to me for the prices on Dave's list, go for it. But I would want all packs to look nice, and all gum be unbroken. That is hard to do for 48 packs. I would personally pass the 11th series box, even though only 2 of them currently exist that we know of. I almost bought one of them this week, but passed because the seller wants a huge price tag for it, well exceeding the price on Dave's list.
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By the way, I do sell sports and other non sports unopened boxes with a price of up to and exceeding $10,000. I have seen some crazy prices obtained in auctions for such unopened sports boxes. The wild card is definitely availability and demand. The demand far exceeds the supply.
But if you want to put together a series 5 or 8 box and sell it to me for the prices on Dave's list, go for it. But I would want all packs to look nice, and all gum be unbroken. That is hard to do for 48 packs. I would personally pass the 11th series box, even though only 2 of them currently exist that we know of. I almost bought one of them this week, but passed because the seller wants a huge price tag for it, well exceeding the price on Dave's list.
Why is unbroken gum so important? The full 10th boxes that came from the case on the east coast had unbroken gum but the boxes and packs were under pressure for years and from what I have heard, the contents were ruined. Beautiful pressure packs with ruined contents, is that desirable? What I am trying to call out is that full box collecting seems random in its definition of the product and hence the price attached to it. If someone wants something pretty to look at, just get nice examples of the boxes themselves and fill them with wrappers. Getting an item purely because it is rare seems to be more about bragging rights and the premium on having bragging rights than any sort of true evaluation of the product itself.
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Is the spike you are seeing in baseball cards mainly mid to late 1960s thru early 1970's? My theory is that those are recently retired nostalgic collectors with money and boredom. I gave my brother a Ryan rookie card for his birthday like 35 years ago as he honed in on Ryan as his favorite player(and liked the Astros cool Jersey) even though he was marginally into baseball. I got it graded for him about a decade ago(PSA7) and it was worth a few hundred, now suddenly it is worth a few thousand.
A lot of it has to do with rarity. For certain years (certain series from 1972,1973 and 1975 mini) full baseball boxes are more plentiful due to Fritsch having them stockpiled and the Conlon hoard of minis. Other years (1971 and below, 1974, 1975 full size) are scarcer and command big bucks. 1971 is a scarce year for all Topps product for some reason.
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Also being a baseball card dealer for over 40 years, I can jump in on the 1971's. They are a full card that is a black card throughout including the borders. The premium on graded perfect cards can number in the thousands. It can simply be a common card, and if it is graded a perfect 10, it could actually be worth over $10,000 if that specific card has never had an example graded a perfect 10 or less than 5 that exist. Actually as long as the cards grade an 8 or above, they will do fine, but the really big money is the perfect 10.
I would say the exact same thing for graded 1986/87 Fleer basketball. Some of the common cards sell for over $10,000 if graded a perfect 10. How about a graded 10 Jordan which consistently sells in the $30,000 to $40,000 range or more.
While I have never graded a card in my lifetime, grading has made me a lot of money, as I put a large premium on mint cards, and dealers will often enter the grading lottery and try to get that perfect 10. Many do.
I am taking a box with me that contains about 1,000 1971 baseball, with many potential perfect 10s and 9s. Believe me they are tough to find in that condition. I am also taking a box of 1971 O Pee Chee (Canadian) cards with similar issues.
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The implication here is that 1971 baseball packs suddenly went up in value...they always had black borders and all the issues with getting high grades on borders that show every imperfection has always existed so there seems to be lack of correlation between the spike and the previously existing situation on grades.
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Yes, but there has never existed the quantity of young investors spending the kinds of money that they are spending, except for pre grading back in the 1970s and 1980s. Believe me, the investors disappeared quickly in the late 1980s/early 1990s when the card companies mass produced too many products.
Now the young investors have returned, this time looking for a quick return on their money. Grading has given them their outlet for capital gains; they buy unopened boxes and get a sufficient number of perfect 10s to win the grading lottery. If the grading bubble ever busts, which is unlikely, they will be in for a rude awakening. Some are also grading every pack or all packs. Imagine a perfect 10 on a pack and what they can sell it for.
I am an old time dealer having been selling cards since 1976, so I never jumped on the grading bandwagon. I let others profit from my sales as long as I also make a decent profit.
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Yes, but there has never existed the quantity of young investors spending the kinds of money that they are spending, except for pre grading back in the 1970s and 1980s. Believe me, the investors disappeared quickly in the late 1980s/early 1990s when the card companies mass produced too many products.
Now the young investors have returned, this time looking for a quick return on their money. Grading has given them their outlet for capital gains; they buy unopened boxes and get a sufficient number of perfect 10s to win the grading lottery. If the grading bubble ever busts, which is unlikely, they will be in for a rude awakening. Some are also grading every pack or all packs. Imagine a perfect 10 on a pack and what they can sell it for.
I am an old time dealer having been selling cards since 1976, so I never jumped on the grading bandwagon. I let others profit from my sales as long as I also make a decent profit.
I completely disagree, I am very certain the grading bubble will burst, it has to statistically. The more cards that get graded, the more the graded population gets saturated. Once there are several 10's of every card, the novelty and bragging rights on having such items subsides too.
Didn't prices for 1970s and later baseball cards completely crash many years ago? I think it has come back completely artificially due to grading, that house of cards(pun intended) will come crashing down.
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A lot of it has to do with rarity. For certain years (certain series from 1972,1973 and 1975 mini) full baseball boxes are more plentiful due to Fritsch having them stockpiled and the Conlon hoard of minis. Other years (1971 and below, 1974, 1975 full size) are scarcer and command big bucks. 1971 is a scarce year for all Topps product for some reason.
I don't know anything about Fritsch and Conlon but I used to think the 1975 minis were scarce and one day I decided to browse ebay for them and I see tons of them at low prices.
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I don't know anything about Fritsch and Conlon but I used to think the 1975 minis were scarce and one day I decided to browse ebay for them and I see tons of them at low prices.
1975 minis are the most plentiful pre-1978 unopened product.
I would submit that opening product for submitting to PSA is no longer common for pre-1978 boxes, as prices have risen to the point where it just isn't tenable. If I pay $475 for a 1972 series 5/6 wax pack, I could score 9 PSA 9 commons and a PSA 8 Ryan and still take a loss. Prices on 70s wax boxes no longer have anything to do with the expected value of the contents IMHO.
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Larry Fritsch is a dealer who was buying unopened product directly from Topps since the late sixties. He now mostly has certain items from certain years....a lot of 1968,1970,1973 and 1975 cellos, 1973 wax. He also has a lot of vending boxes, though whether they are truly unsearched is controversial.
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I really don't disagree with you but I am cautious only because the grading collectors and dealers will come down VERY heavy on such statements. But I will say that I have had the same argument with some of them and they actually laugh at me and say they would buy this and that in my showcase if only they were graded.
How do you like this comparison -- I consider grading like beanie baby collecting. Someday, the owners of those $10,000 commons will actually own just a $10 or less common that they paid a ridiculous amount for.
But on the other hand, that bubble may never burst.
For now, I stay neutral and would love to see a grading system that has little contact with human eyes. That way every card in the same condition would always get the same exact grade, and not depend on a human being that has good and bad days. Then I become interested in grading. Until then, I will continue to avoid grading like the plague.
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I really don't disagree with you but I am cautious only because the grading collectors and dealers will come down VERY heavy on such statements. But I will say that I have had the same argument with some of them and they actually laugh at me and say they would buy this and that in my showcase if only they were graded.
How do you like this comparison -- I consider grading like beanie baby collecting. Someday, the owners of those $10,000 commons will actually own just a $10 or less common that they paid a ridiculous amount for.
But on the other hand, that bubble may never burst.
For now, I stay neutral and would love to see a grading system that has little contact with human eyes. That way every card in the same condition would always get the same exact grade, and not depend on a human being that has good and bad days. Then I become interested in grading. Until then, I will continue to avoid grading like the plague.
Beannie baby collecting and the TY products was just a big scam waiting to come crashing down. Artificially creating shortages of product and hoping such rarity would drive that collectible was destined to be a fad at best.
With all investing, one must find a buyer. Buyers come about from desirability of a product driven by rarity or inherit value. A 1971 baseball card can only have value due to perceived rarity as it has no inherit value, it is a piece of cardboard. As long as there are personalities who are driven by owning "rarity", there will be life in the collecting of rare baseball cards.
Thinking of other kinds of investments, I think the stock market is a crock of shit as people buy stocks of companies that will NEVER pay a dividend which means the only way to make money on such stocks is to find someone who later on thinks it is worth more. The biggest and longest lasting Ponzi scheme ever! If disaster struck, I always tell my friends, I sure prefer to have land, gas and oil over gold and non dividend yielding stocks. Land, oil and gas have inherit value for living. Gold and non dividend yielding stocks are only useful if you have a buyer.
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1975 minis are the most plentiful pre-1978 unopened product.
I would submit that opening product for submitting to PSA is no longer common for pre-1978 boxes, as prices have risen to the point where it just isn't tenable. If I pay $475 for a 1972 series 5/6 wax pack, I could score 9 PSA 9 commons and a PSA 8 Ryan and still take a loss. Prices on 70s wax boxes no longer have anything to do with the expected value of the contents IMHO.
Wasn't there a time the minis sold for more than their full sized counterparts?
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Yes, the minis (the actual cards that is) were considered more valuable, as they were test marketed only in Michigan and California. What changed that to some degree (the minis are still very popular) is that a ton of unopened product that had been stashed for years came to market. 75 minis are pretty much the only unopened product that is still being ripped to submit cards for grading. For everything else the unopened price spike has made this cost prohibitive.
1978 and 1979 used to be some of the most popular years for ripping because the unopened was plentiful and cheap. Now it's tripled in price in a few years. Meanwhile PSA 9s in these sets are mostly not worth the grading fees.
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True, but 2 to 3 years ago, I was buying 1975 mini boxes at approximately $1,300, and now the same sellers are asking $2,800 to $3,200 a box or more, and much more if they are sealed by BBCE. While we are on that subject, I really don't want to buy such BBCE boxes as I personally can't review each pack, which I like to do. Dave, I know you feel the same exact way. I don't want to pay extra for their review. I've got one more 1975 unopened mini box left for sale, unless I can get some more at a decent price. I prefer to be the lowest price on the block.
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So my week at the National is now over.
Luckily, I sell a mixture of all sports and non sports, so my show was excellent, whereas other dealers did say they were 20% to 50% of from Chicago and other Nationals. I was at least double my typical sales at most Nationals.
Contrary to earlier comments by those who are really not up to date on current buying prices because sales are uncharted, I did sell two packs of 1973 Series 1 Wackys (and now still have two packs left) and one box of Series 7 no gum which I am already in the process of replacing. Actually I only had two Wacky boxes on display for most days, and three boxes for the last two days.
HOLY GRAIL: Friends of mine from the past have told me that they have (1) a 1967 box unopened, and (2) a 1967 uncut sheet. Talk is cheap but I will try to acquire these items before next National. I have a $15,000 to $20,000 offer on the box outstanding. No offer on the uncut sheet until I see it.
If you have an interest in buying or selling me boxes or packs, I will respond immediately with an offer.
Best regards,
Steve Sabow
Dynamictwo@AOL.com
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So the 1st series packs sold for $1000 apiece? If so, I guess we have some new valuation info!
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True, but 2 to 3 years ago, I was buying 1975 mini boxes at approximately $1,300, and now the same sellers are asking $2,800 to $3,200 a box or more, and much more if they are sealed by BBCE. While we are on that subject, I really don't want to buy such BBCE boxes as I personally can't review each pack, which I like to do. Dave, I know you feel the same exact way. I don't want to pay extra for their review. I've got one more 1975 unopened mini box left for sale, unless I can get some more at a decent price. I prefer to be the lowest price on the block.
One of my friends Dan McKee was set up at the show and he told me that he didn't come across your table, But he informed me that there was a dealer that had all 4 reissue boxes available, But he wasn't sure of the cost on them.
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Responses:
1 -- I believe that 1st series packs have a big interest as 2 of them sold quickly as both collectors have been looking for 10 to 15 years for one. Will that price remain reachable for the 4 packs I had. I only have 2 left and have been offered 1 more at a price I can live with. Hopefully it will come my way soon.
2 -- Why couldn't Dan find me? I was in the 100 row about 10 booths in. If you did the show systematically by doing the 100 row, and then the 200 row etc., you would walk right by me. If you walked straight down the farthest left aisle, and if not done systematically, you could feasibly miss me. Also, I was not really focusing on selling Wacky boxes and only had 2 of the boxes in my showcases for days 1 to 3, and on day four and five, I added one more box. Why don't I just pile them up for everyone to see? Because of their value and the fact that I can only ensure they are NOT stolen by keeping them under lock and key. Crooks make it hard for other collectors by distracting you with one individual while the second one tries to steal what they want. I have been doing this since 1976, and have seen every trick in the book. Why were three 1952 Topps Mantles stolen at last year's National? They probably left their showcases unlocked, and were distracted.
The true Wacky collectors found me throughout the show. But I only sell original series wacky boxes, and will never stock or sell reprints of anything including wackys. I have no interest at all in buying the reprints for resale or my own collection.
That is why I can offer $15,000 to $20,000 for a 1967 unopened box. I value the fact that I do not have a box of my own, and for a short or long time, that box would be mine to enjoy.
3 -- I will be the 8th booth in the door next year, and mostly everyone should find me unless I have a huge bunch of customers blocking my booth. Most collectors will walk in the direction of my booth.
Best regards,
Steve Sabow
Dynamictwo@aol.com
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So my week at the National is now over.
Luckily, I sell a mixture of all sports and non sports, so my show was excellent, whereas other dealers did say they were 20% to 50% of from Chicago and other Nationals. I was at least double my typical sales at most Nationals.
Contrary to earlier comments by those who are really not up to date on current buying prices because sales are uncharted, I did sell two packs of 1973 Series 1 Wackys (and now still have two packs left) and one box of Series 7 no gum which I am already in the process of replacing. Actually I only had two Wacky boxes on display for most days, and three boxes for the last two days.
HOLY GRAIL: Friends of mine from the past have told me that they have (1) a 1967 box unopened, and (2) a 1967 uncut sheet. Talk is cheap but I will try to acquire these items before next National. I have a $15,000 to $20,000 offer on the box outstanding. No offer on the uncut sheet until I see it.
If you have an interest in buying or selling me boxes or packs, I will respond immediately with an offer.
Best regards,
Steve Sabow
Dynamictwo@AOL.com
Who predicted you wouldn't sell series 1 packs? Your contrary comment is contrary to anything posted in this thread.
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Yes I agree. The prediction was that I would not sell any boxes. I did sell one box and I am trying to replace it now.
But besides selling two series one packs, I have an offer that came in today to purchase one of the remaining ones I have for sale. I may keep the remaining two packs for now. I really didn't get to enjoy them long.
I will buy every complete box of original series Wackys for at least the price that Dave listed them as to their value. I will also buy every pack at a suitable value. My main wants are series 1 - 6, and 16, but I will be open to purchasing other boxes and packs.
I would only exclude series 14 as I currently have enough packs and boxes for sale.
Regards,
Steve
P.S. Why have I been turning up so many Wackys now and in the past; because I pay the most, it is difficult to turn them over for little profit. Try me out!!
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Yes I agree. The prediction was that I would not sell any boxes. I did sell one box and I am trying to replace it now.
But besides selling two series one packs, I have an offer that came in today to purchase one of the remaining ones I have for sale. I may keep the remaining two packs for now. I really didn't get to enjoy them long.
I will buy every complete box of original series Wackys for at least the price that Dave listed them as to their value. I will also buy every pack at a suitable value. My main wants are series 1 - 6, and 16, but I will be open to purchasing other boxes and packs.
I would only exclude series 14 as I currently have enough packs and boxes for sale.
Regards,
Steve
P.S. Why have I been turning up so many Wackys now and in the past; because I pay the most, it is difficult to turn them over for little profit. Try me out!!
Hey if you want ten dollars for a series one pack, hit me up. :]
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Yes I agree. The prediction was that I would not sell any boxes. I did sell one box and I am trying to replace it now.
But besides selling two series one packs, I have an offer that came in today to purchase one of the remaining ones I have for sale. I may keep the remaining two packs for now. I really didn't get to enjoy them long.
I will buy every complete box of original series Wackys for at least the price that Dave listed them as to their value. I will also buy every pack at a suitable value. My main wants are series 1 - 6, and 16, but I will be open to purchasing other boxes and packs.
I would only exclude series 14 as I currently have enough packs and boxes for sale.
Regards,
Steve
P.S. Why have I been turning up so many Wackys now and in the past; because I pay the most, it is difficult to turn them over for little profit. Try me out!!
so how much would you pay for 10th pack with Pupsi showing and 16th pack with scoot copy showing?
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Yes I agree. The prediction was that I would not sell any boxes. I did sell one box and I am trying to replace it now.
But besides selling two series one packs, I have an offer that came in today to purchase one of the remaining ones I have for sale. I may keep the remaining two packs for now. I really didn't get to enjoy them long.
I will buy every complete box of original series Wackys for at least the price that Dave listed them as to their value. I will also buy every pack at a suitable value. My main wants are series 1 - 6, and 16, but I will be open to purchasing other boxes and packs.
I would only exclude series 14 as I currently have enough packs and boxes for sale.
Regards,
Steve
P.S. Why have I been turning up so many Wackys now and in the past; because I pay the most, it is difficult to turn them over for little profit. Try me out!!
Are you buying up all of the packs that have sold singly on ebay for far less than the $50 price you seem to feel all packs should sell? I have seen 10th, 8th and 13th under $50. Series 16 packs sell for more but they are a clear exception as would the very early series.
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So the 1st series packs sold for $1000 apiece? If so, I guess we have some new valuation info!
Dynamic doesn't ever list his selling prices so how did you determine he sold series 1 packs for over $1000 each? He never replied to your direct question nor mine when I asked him which full wacky packages boxes he was bringing to the show and his asking price.
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so how much would you pay for 10th pack with Pupsi showing and 16th pack with scoot copy showing?
How much are you asking for each?
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Dynamic doesn't ever list his selling prices so how did you determine he sold series 1 packs for over $1000 each? He never replied to your direct question nor mine when I asked him which full wacky packages boxes he was bringing to the show and his asking price.
Because I had spies in place at the National and I know how much he sold them for.
Here's a direct quote from my man in AC:
"He is asking 1k apiece.....He will not budge on the price."
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Because I had spies in place at the National and I know how much he sold them for.
Here's a direct quote from my man in AC:
"He is asking 1k apiece.....He will not budge on the price."
LOL!
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How much are you asking for each?
Since everyone else seems to be PM'ing you, PM sent.
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Let me try and straighten this out:
1 -- I did bring 4 unopened Wacky packages series 1 1973 with me, and only returned with 2 of them. Both were sold at $1,000, and each individual said they had been looking for one for 10 to 15 years. Neither even tried to negotiate with me; they didn't want to lose the pack. I also have one more Net 54 National attendee who wants one but we will see if that sale develops.
2 -- I thought I told everyone that I was bringing the following boxes with me: Series 7; Series 7 gumless; Series 12 (2); Series 13; Series 14 (2); Series 15.
I sold one box, a series 7 gumless complete box I had at home, since the one at the show was missing 3 packs.
3 -- I am really more of a box collector and seller; I would love to pick up packs for sale of the following series: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 11, and 16. I will pay 50 percent of what I would sell them for, and it sounds like some consider me high priced, so sell me your packs.
4 -- If I sell boxes at double what I pay for them, how can I buy packs off of eBay at $50.00? Then I would be paying $2,400 a box; where is my profit? I would buy common packs at $25 so I can double my money. Others I would pay up to $500 each for resale.
5 -- I really did not highlight my inventory of unopened boxes at the National since I was doing so well on all of my other items. Anyone at the show can confirm that all I did was put out a series 12 and 14 box in one of my showcases for the first 3 days, and I added a series 13 for the last 2 days. So it is not surprising that some collectors missed my display. I advertised my location and most heavy duty Wacky collectors found me; one day, I thought there was a meeting of all the wacky collectors in the room at my booth. Truthfully as Dave has said, boxes have dried up and all of my contacts are finding me very little as his are doing the same.
6 -- I am still buying unopened boxes and any of the packs I can buy in quantity, as I suspect that all of my boxes will eventually be sold to one of my competitors who has full-time customers for them. I actually think I may not do another show again until next year's National in Chicago.
7 -- Rather than make statements that are just guesses, you can always e-mail me directly at DynamicTwo@aol.com or call me on my cell 914-522-3853; I am always receptive to talking about non sports cards and in particular Wacky Packages original series and 1920's to 1950's non sports; let me know what you have for sale as I am looking for many different series, some for myself and others for customers.
8 -- How did I do at this year's National? I have set up a booth at every National except the first four of them. The last two Atlantic City Nationals were very forgettable, but this year's National was one of my best shows of all time, thanks to many large sales of sports cards and non-sports cards. Come see me at next year's National in Chicago when I will be the seventh or eighth booth straight in the door facing the concession stands.
Have a great last several weeks of the summer!!!
Steve
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Perhaps you are a tad over sensitive Steve. I don't think anyone here is attacking you. Just normal questions from folks reacting with intrigue about your hoard of stuff.
I believe any comments about ebay prices on packs are purely to indicate those represent fair market price. You claim your prices are fair market prices when in fact they are not. You are relying on finding the top 10% payers and as you have shown, it takes a good long time to find them. That is not the definition of market price. You have confused your buying and selling prices with a low volume of transactions as an indicator of wacky package fair market prices. You have presented yourself as being more of an expert on the market prices of wacky packages packs and boxes than the audience here that likely have experts in this area.
Is the product drying up, possibly. Has demand slowed on this, much more so. The hyper competitive big players who used to run each other up to buy uncut sheets, unopened packs and boxes and other premium wackys pretty much have what they want or in some cases, are unloading their hoard which means the market is not so dried up. When the hyper competitive players were collecting display boxes, a weakies poster box would NEVER have sold for under $500, one just sold for barely half that on ebay. An uncut series 12 sheet(while once of the most common ones) which hasn't been seen on ebay in quite some time, didn't even get a sniff at $200. During the hyper days, it would be hard to find any uncut sheets under $500.
I still believe much of the demand for unopened wackys is for those who plan to kill the packs and feed this PSA craze. Once the PSA craze crashes and burns due to saturation of high graded product, the unopened pack market will drop in value.
I do believe in the next 10 years or so, we could see a spike in the premium wackys value as it is quite possible all the kids buy have been buying ANS wackys for the last 12 years will get nostalgic about it much like everyone here has. They will have disposable income as they would then be in their late 20's and 30's. They will perhaps seek original wackys just like we all did in collecting diecuts and wacky ads which almost none of us had as kids. For this reason, I have not been hyper about trying to sell my hoard of original series stickers. When I retire, I will have plenty of time on my hands and perhaps then, this new market of wacky collectors will have this nostalgic kicking in :-)
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Let me try and straighten this out:
1 -- I did bring 4 unopened Wacky packages series 1 1973 with me, and only returned with 2 of them. Both were sold at $1,000, and each individual said they had been looking for one for 10 to 15 years. Neither even tried to negotiate with me; they didn't want to lose the pack. I also have one more Net 54 National attendee who wants one but we will see if that sale develops.
2 -- I thought I told everyone that I was bringing the following boxes with me: Series 7; Series 7 gumless; Series 12 (2); Series 13; Series 14 (2); Series 15.
I sold one box, a series 7 gumless complete box I had at home, since the one at the show was missing 3 packs.
3 -- I am really more of a box collector and seller; I would love to pick up packs for sale of the following series: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 11, and 16. I will pay 50 percent of what I would sell them for, and it sounds like some consider me high priced, so sell me your packs.
4 -- If I sell boxes at double what I pay for them, how can I buy packs off of eBay at $50.00? Then I would be paying $2,400 a box; where is my profit? I would buy common packs at $25 so I can double my money. Others I would pay up to $500 each for resale.
5 -- I really did not highlight my inventory of unopened boxes at the National since I was doing so well on all of my other items. Anyone at the show can confirm that all I did was put out a series 12 and 14 box in one of my showcases for the first 3 days, and I added a series 13 for the last 2 days. So it is not surprising that some collectors missed my display. I advertised my location and most heavy duty Wacky collectors found me; one day, I thought there was a meeting of all the wacky collectors in the room at my booth. Truthfully as Dave has said, boxes have dried up and all of my contacts are finding me very little as his are doing the same.
6 -- I am still buying unopened boxes and any of the packs I can buy in quantity, as I suspect that all of my boxes will eventually be sold to one of my competitors who has full-time customers for them. I actually think I may not do another show again until next year's National in Chicago.
7 -- Rather than make statements that are just guesses, you can always e-mail me directly at DynamicTwo@aol.com or call me on my cell 914-522-3853; I am always receptive to talking about non sports cards and in particular Wacky Packages original series and 1920's to 1950's non sports; let me know what you have for sale as I am looking for many different series, some for myself and others for customers.
8 -- How did I do at this year's National? I have set up a booth at every National except the first four of them. The last two Atlantic City Nationals were very forgettable, but this year's National was one of my best shows of all time, thanks to many large sales of sports cards and non-sports cards. Come see me at next year's National in Chicago when I will be the seventh or eighth booth straight in the door facing the concession stands.
Have a great last several weeks of the summer!!!
Steve
BTW - I believe you were directly asked several times for your full box prices, you never answered but it appears you have answered a hoard of questions that were never actually asked.
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Rather than continue with a response, I am just answering one more question, and then ending with a request:
I did answer everyone's question about how much my boxes would be for sale for at the National; maybe it was vague, but that was my intention. I do not like publishing my for sale prices because I really don't think that this is the place to do that. I told the forum that I would buy all boxes (except 11th series) at the value that Dave just put on them somewhere in this thread, and I also said that I was in the business to double my money. Duh! Simple math to me.
As I also said previously, if you think my prices are way too high, take advantage of me and sell me your boxes and unopened packs at DynamicTwo@aol.com. Someone did just that before I left for the National; when I returned home I found a 7th series gumless box waiting for me, that I already had sold at the National. I also need 3 packs of 7th series gumless since the other box I have for sale is missing 3 packs.
Btw, no matter what anyone says on any of the forums (not just the Wacky ones), I continue to abide by my mother's comments, which I have heard from many other mothers, which is "if you have nothing nice to say, say nothing at all".
That is it from me on this thread.
Steve
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Rather than continue with a response, I am just answering one more question, and then ending with a request:
I did answer everyone's question about how much my boxes would be for sale for at the National; maybe it was vague, but that was my intention. I do not like publishing my for sale prices because I really don't think that this is the place to do that. I told the forum that I would buy all boxes (except 11th series) at the value that Dave just put on them somewhere in this thread, and I also said that I was in the business to double my money. Duh! Simple math to me.
As I also said previously, if you think my prices are way too high, take advantage of me and sell me your boxes and unopened packs at DynamicTwo@aol.com. Someone did just that before I left for the National; when I returned home I found a 7th series gumless box waiting for me, that I already had sold at the National. I also need 3 packs of 7th series gumless since the other box I have for sale is missing 3 packs.
Btw, no matter what anyone says on any of the forums (not just the Wacky ones), I continue to abide by my mother's comments, which I have heard from many other mothers, which is "if you have nothing nice to say, say nothing at all".
That is it from me on this thread.
Steve
Actually, this is your quote "Yes, I will be selling all of my Wacky boxes for more than $1,000 each". You are right, you are purposely vague which seems to me is akin to having nothing to say, good point.
Three times you have lamented the fact that ONE person gave 2nd hand information that someone didn't see your table(Pupsi said Dan didn't see your table). You seem unusually worried about that and less concerned with the actual dialogue on this thread which has been a reasonably open discussion about market prices of wacky package unopened material.
You have played both sides of the table claiming all packs are "worth $50 and more" yet you are not a buyer at $30 and $40 because it doesn't give you your desired "margin" all while claiming you are the expert on market value of these packs. You have confused your dictated business model with market value. No biggie, it is what it is.
Best of luck to you.
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Actually, this is your quote "Yes, I will be selling all of my Wacky boxes for more than $1,000 each". You are right, you are purposely vague which seems to me is akin to having nothing to say, good point.
Three times you have lamented the fact that ONE person gave 2nd hand information that someone didn't see your table(Pupsi said Dan didn't see your table). You seem unusually worried about that and less concerned with the actual dialogue on this thread which has been a reasonably open discussion about market prices of wacky package unopened material.
You have played both sides of the table claiming all packs are "worth $50 and more" yet you are not a buyer at $30 and $40 because it doesn't give you your desired "margin" all while claiming you are the expert on market value of these packs. You have confused your dictated business model with market value. No biggie, it is what it is.
Best of luck to you.
I know I asked Steve for his wacky package full box prices in a nice concise simple one sentence question and I didn't get the courtesy of a response, not even a vague answer about his required margins and such. He did write a long post about the hundreds of other questions he felt were asked of him shortly after I asked. I was a potential buyer but this isn't life or death for me so waiting to buy boxes from others is fine with me.
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I know I asked Steve for his wacky package full box prices in a nice concise simple one sentence question and I didn't get the courtesy of a response, not even a vague answer about his required margins and such. He did write a long post about the hundreds of other questions he felt were asked of him shortly after I asked. I was a potential buyer but this isn't life or death for me so waiting to buy boxes from others is fine with me.
I know someone with full boxes for sale. I don't really want full boxes, only empty boxes missing from my collection hence why I am in touch with him. I will ask him if I can give you his cell number and if so, I will send you a PM.