Wacky Packages Forum
Wacky Packages Discussion => General Wacky Packages Discussion => Wacky Packages Art => Topic started by: Plan 9 on June 06, 2010, 11:58:24 AM
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I figured I'd start this thread for general Wacky art chat so we can keep the auction thread limited to auction results. Here are a couple of paintings I did that Topps won't publish. They were unsolicited submissions. They told me they don't even consider cold submissions. Whatever. Sculpture has always been my thing until last year when I discovered painting. These were my first few attempts.
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I think all of your wacky work that I've seen is above the average level that we've seen for ANS. I think these are both great. The art that is, which is all that really matters to me.
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Mark, I found both of your paintings to be very enjoyable. Simple, straight-forward gags with not a lot of clutter. Good deal. Thanks for sharing them with us.
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I'm not the connoisseur that the others here are, but I prefer what you presented here to many, many of the ANS art work. Topps seems to be of the opinion if its not overly gross, its not good, which I very much disagree with. Here's hoping they get a brain and reconsider your work.
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I figured I'd start this thread for general Wacky art chat so we can keep the auction thread limited to auction results. Here are a couple of paintings I did that Topps won't publish. They were unsolicited submissions. They told me they don't even consider cold submissions. Whatever. Sculpture has always been my thing until last year when I discovered painting. These were my first few attempts.
Those would both make FANTASTIC WACKYS!!! :o Great work Mark....What is "Topps" thinking about??? :^)
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Great job on both. I can't take my eyes off the top of the can on Hornets. Let us know if you ever make those into cards. Amazing how far you've come in a short time.
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Those are really nice! You should do a set and sell it to the forum members. I'd buy a few!
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Those are really nice! You should do a set and sell it to the forum members. I'd buy a few!
I almost suggested the same thing Brad! I say make a whole set Mark! You could even (borrow) the name "Goofy Groceries" :^) Just a thought ???
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Those are really nice! You should do a set and sell it to the forum members. I'd buy a few!
Me too, do you take PayPal Mark ;D
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Those are both cool Wackys, thanks for posting them. Did you submit them to Topps before or after Dead & Buried?
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Wow! Thanks guys. Your feedback is so positive and I really appreciate it!!
I sold a gag to Topps for the 2010 series and they gave it to another artist telling me I'm not a good enough painter. I was eventually able to get in a couple of paintings for the 2010 series thanks to Smokin' Joe. He gave me one of his approved gags and had me paint it on the sly. He sent it in with his stuff, then mentioned I did it. At that point they were desperate for more paintings so they asked me to do another one. I'll always be sore about having them take my best gag ever and hand it to someone else. I never would have done it but I thought I was being a "team member". That's a corporate analogy for "willing to take it up the ass".
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I think all of your wacky work that I've seen is above the average level that we've seen for ANS. I think these are both great. The art that is, which is all that really matters to me.
I agree, good stuff from someone who has only been painting for a year. I wish I had a hidden talent like that!
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Both of those are great! :)
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Wow! Thanks guys. Your feedback is so positive and I really appreciate it!!
I sold a gag to Topps for the 2010 series and they gave it to another artist telling me I'm not a good enough painter. I was eventually able to get in a couple of paintings for the 2010 series thanks to Smokin' Joe. He gave me one of his approved gags and had me paint it on the sly. He sent it in with his stuff, then mentioned I did it. At that point they were desperate for more paintings so they asked me to do another one. I'll always be sore about having them take my best gag ever and hand it to someone else. I never would have done it but I thought I was being a "team member". That's a corporate analogy for "willing to take it up the ass".
Well, at least it seems like you came out OK "in the end".
The two you shared with us look great. I look forward to seeing your 2010 series contributions!
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I approached Topps about two years ago with a plan for doing a series of Wacky characters. Since this is one of my favorite characters I made this little statue as a sample. I was going to do a limited edition of 300 each of about 6-12 characters. Topps was reeeeaaaalll slow on negotiations. By then I decided not to do outside licenses anymore. I have three of these guys collecting dust.
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I approached Topps about two years ago with a plan for doing a series of Wacky characters. Since this is one of my favorite characters I made this little statue as a sample. I was going to do a limited edition of 300 each of about 6-12 characters. Topps was reeeeaaaalll slow on negotiations. By then I decided not to do outside licenses anymore. I have three of these guys collecting dust.
WOW!!! :o That is fantastic Mark! By any chance would you like to sell one? :^)
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I approached Topps about two years ago with a plan for doing a series of Wacky characters. Since this is one of my favorite characters I made this little statue as a sample. I was going to do a limited edition of 300 each of about 6-12 characters. Topps was reeeeaaaalll slow on negotiations. By then I decided not to do outside licenses anymore. I have three of these guys collecting dust.
That's awesome!! I'm sorry they were never produced, I'd definitely buy something like that. Dr. Popper is one of my favorites, and one of those items that I always refer to by it's Wacky title. And that was an excellent choice for this format, as it has 'action' - the splashing and waves are just great!
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Mark that is beyond fantastic, I too as a wacky collector would love to have it in my collection!
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Very Cool indeed. Of course I would love to have a realistic looking Busted Finger candy bar with an even more realistic looking finger coming out of it!
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I'd be willing to let a Dr. Popper go but I couldn't sell it for the retail price it would have been if all 2000 statues were made. There's only three and I made them all by hand starting from the raw clay, though the molds and castings, the assembly and paint. Thousands in time and materials are invested. But since I consider the investment lost I could let one go for under $1000 or trade. Anyone want to trade for original series or re-issue boxes? With or without packs, I don't care. I might even trade one for a gold border Battlecaps.
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I approached Topps about two years ago with a plan for doing a series of Wacky characters. Since this is one of my favorite characters I made this little statue as a sample. I was going to do a limited edition of 300 each of about 6-12 characters. Topps was reeeeaaaalll slow on negotiations. By then I decided not to do outside licenses anymore. I have three of these guys collecting dust.
Very cool, Plan! Although Dr Popper isn't one of my faves, I think you did a fantastic job on the sculpture (and on the two wacky paintings at the start of this thread, esp Hornet Chili). I wish Topps would hire you to make a run of a few thousand sculpture run of some of the iconic Wacky characters.
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I'd be willing to let a Dr. Popper go but I couldn't sell it for the retail price it would have been if all 2000 statues were made. There's only three and I made them all by hand starting from the raw clay, though the molds and castings, the assembly and paint. Thousands in time and materials are invested. But since I consider the investment lost I could let one go for under $1000 or trade. Anyone want to trade for original series or re-issue boxes? With or without packs, I don't care. I might even trade one for a gold border Battlecaps.
And did you make 3 of Dr P or was it three different characters? If it was three different characters, would you be willing to post pics of the other two? I'm sure there are many that would like to see them.
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And did you make 3 of Dr P or was it three different characters? If it was three different characters, would you be willing to post pics of the other two? I'm sure there are many that would like to see them.
I only made the one character. I have three Dr. Poppers.
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Lovely work. Sorry these didn't come to fruition, I've no doubt it would have been a great series.
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Those are simply fantastic Mark! I can only hope Topps will reconsider, I'd love to see those in sticker form. Strong visuals, great gags, a simple look like the originals. Bravo!!
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The Speed Lick art went for $415 last night. Are people getting tapped out, or perhaps that was just not a big favorite? Maybe they're saving up for the new releases.
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The Speed Lick art went for $415 last night. Are people getting tapped out, or perhaps that was just not a big favorite? Maybe they're saving up for the new releases.
While I personally wasn't so fond of that one, I was surprised it went as low as it did. I don't have any explanation, other than it being summer sometimes leads to a bit lower prices. Still, I would have bet a lot of money it would have at least broken $500.
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The Speed Lick art went for $415 last night. Are people getting tapped out, or perhaps that was just not a big favorite? Maybe they're saving up for the new releases.
I thought the gag was a very clever idea.
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I figured I'd start this thread for general Wacky art chat so we can keep the auction thread limited to auction results. Here are a couple of paintings I did that Topps won't publish. They were unsolicited submissions. They told me they don't even consider cold submissions. Whatever. Sculpture has always been my thing until last year when I discovered painting. These were my first few attempts.
These are great dude. Vibrant colors, non-cluttered(ANS tend to be very cluttered with ultimately very small lettering), very detailed(love those hornets).
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These are great dude. Vibrant colors, non-cluttered(ANS tend to be very cluttered with ultimately very small lettering), very detailed(love those hornets).
But are they memorable characters? :^)
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But are they memorable characters? :^)
Ha and ha. Probably not. I'm just a beginner with painting. When ANS2010 comes out let me know what you think of the characters I created for those.
Topps was incredibly lucky to get a highly experienced artist near retirement and willing to work for peanuts at that time. Topps won't find anyone to fit that bill again because they don't exist anymore. Today's Wacky artists are quite skilled. Some of them will eventually do masterful work if they stay with Wacky Packs that long. But at the moment the weakest element of Wacky Packs is the one I care about most. Characters. The product illustration gets better and the text gets better, but the characters have gone the other way.
Here are some of my gags Topps turned down. I'm pretty new to drawing and painting but I think I could have done some justice to these characters in the painting stage.
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Thanks for posting those, Mark. I like Catscade the best, followed by Country Spock. Does Topps give you a reason for each idea they reject?
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Thanks for posting those, Mark. I like Catscade the best, followed by Country Spock. Does Topps give you a reason for each idea they reject?
I liked "Catscade" the best also, that one has real potential...Great work Mark! ;)
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I thought the gag was a very clever idea.
Me too. Very good gag. Didn't you write that one?
I just wish the eyes had more rendering. They're the stars of the package. They needed that sticky wetness, reflections and a cross shadow to bring out depth and roundness.
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Thanks for posting those, Mark. I like Catscade the best, followed by Country Spock. Does Topps give you a reason for each idea they reject?
Here's what they said;
Hyde changed too many letters, there's too many cat gags in Wackys these days, he never heard of the national bottled water called "Sparkletts", no explanation on GoonPie, Fisties was too mean, he thought Country Spock was a legal issue, though he was totally wrong. Nobody can own the name of "Spock" and the caricature doesn't show a Star Trek uniform. They suggested I redraw the bursting packs on CrabbySun but rejected it in the meantime. Maybe my gags are not funny enough or maybe they're not rendered well enough but they're just rough ideas. They could have been refined later. Taglines can be changed minute to minute but they just shot 'em down.
Here's another sketch they rejected. They said it was too vague.
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Here's what they said;
Hyde changed too many letters, there's too many cat gags in Wackys these days, he never heard of the national bottled water called "Sparkletts", no explanation on GoonPie, Fisties was too mean, he thought Country Spock was a legal issue, though he was totally wrong. Nobody can own the name of "Spock" and the caricature doesn't show a Star Trek uniform. They suggested I redraw the bursting packs on CrabbySun but rejected it in the meantime. Maybe my gags are not funny enough or maybe they're not rendered well enough but they're just rough ideas. They could have been refined later. Taglines can be changed minute to minute but they just shot 'em down.
Here's another sketch they rejected. They said it was too vague.
That's another great one Mark! I'm glad Topps hired you.
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Mark, I like your ideas - some of them are quite good and would have made for fun Wackys to be sure. Keep the idea factory flowing!
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Here's what they said;
Hyde changed too many letters, there's too many cat gags in Wackys these days, he never heard of the national bottled water called "Sparkletts", no explanation on GoonPie, Fisties was too mean, he thought Country Spock was a legal issue, though he was totally wrong. Nobody can own the name of "Spock" and the caricature doesn't show a Star Trek uniform. They suggested I redraw the bursting packs on CrabbySun but rejected it in the meantime. Maybe my gags are not funny enough or maybe they're not rendered well enough but they're just rough ideas. They could have been refined later. Taglines can be changed minute to minute but they just shot 'em down.
Here's another sketch they rejected. They said it was too vague.
Vague? I thought Fruit Holdups was pretty clear, and funny. As for the others you posted, Catscade looked very promising as a cool Wacky - perhaps they'd accept that one in the future if there's a decrease in other artists' cat-themed Wackys. Maybe a postcard? Or a postcard set bonus card? And, I'd LOVE a Star Trek Wacky, so Country Spock really appeals to me.
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Here's what they said;
Hyde changed too many letters, there's too many cat gags in Wackys these days, he never heard of the national bottled water called "Sparkletts", no explanation on GoonPie, Fisties was too mean, he thought Country Spock was a legal issue, though he was totally wrong. Nobody can own the name of "Spock" and the caricature doesn't show a Star Trek uniform. They suggested I redraw the bursting packs on CrabbySun but rejected it in the meantime. Maybe my gags are not funny enough or maybe they're not rendered well enough but they're just rough ideas. They could have been refined later. Taglines can be changed minute to minute but they just shot 'em down.
Ha! I really like that Fruit Hold-Ups - that's a fun one.
You know, as an editor of this kind of stuff, you make the best decisions you can. When I was a comic editor, I made strong decisions. Ten years later, I sometimes look back and wonder why the hell I went one way, and not the other that I considered. Not sure if that's my artistic eye evolving, or the medium, or if it's simply I've forgotten the many factors I had to consider back then. It's probably a mix of all three. There were times I rejected story ideas, and the reasoning I gave might sound like bunk now - and it might have been bunk then. But I can certainly that whatever I said back then, it was honest.
I bring this up because, as a commercial artist, it's going to be rare to ever find an editor who shares all of your sensibilities. As much as we try to make educated, informed decisions, there's still a great deal of subjectivity that comes into play in the end, when you're the guy who calls these shots.
I don't know how the Wacky Editors at Topps operate, but when I was an editor on the X-Men, even when I was making decisions that might not have ended up being great, or made choices that, ten years later, don't seem like the best I could have made - I worked hard, and believed that they were the best choices I was making, at the time. My interest then was in putting the best possible books out for the readers that we could, and getting them out on-time (always a tough task).
Reading this bit of your tale, I have to say that it does suck that the editors at Topps don't have the desire, or the luxury of time, to help bring your rough ideas to full bloom. You bring a tremendous amount of craft and artistry to the table, and clearly a well of passion, too.
At this point, I suppose you could decide that Topps editors have no idea what they're doing by rejecting your stuff - and throw in the towel. Or take the tack that perhaps their position gives them the most valid perspective to choose the best Wackys (at least MOST of the time), and that, in whatever way your work "isn't there yet" is something you're willing to struggle through.
Even if the Topps editors are not 100% right about their criticisms, there have to be some nuggets within their notes that can inspire you to find new approaches to your Wacky submissions.
I look forward to experiencing your next creations, whatever they may be, and as a fan, I'm glad you're out there, pushing the envelope and working hard to create.
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It's always great to see your work Mark!
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That's another great one Mark! I'm glad Topps hired you.
Thanks Ron!
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At this point, I suppose you could decide that Topps editors have no idea what they're doing by rejecting your stuff - and throw in the towel. Or take the tack that perhaps their position gives them the most valid perspective to choose the best Wackys (at least MOST of the time), and that, in whatever way your work "isn't there yet" is something you're willing to struggle through.
I did consider this view. But I got into it looking for fun and didn't find much. I have absolute freedom to create my own art so it's foolish for me to go back to dealing with bosses or being a team player. I don't want to spoil my love for Wacky Packs by turning it into a job. At least I can say I did a postcard and some Wacky stickers.
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I did consider this view. But I got into it looking for fun and didn't find much. I have absolute freedom to create my own art so it's foolish for me to go back to dealing with bosses or being a team player. I don't want to spoil my love for Wacky Packs by turning it into a job. At least I can say I did a postcard and some Wacky stickers.
Sounds perfectly reasonable and well thought-out. If the challenges presented by doing your own thing are more rewarding than what you can get working for someone else, it make little sense to pursue it. I think that's the key to life - not so much to avoid difficulty and struggle, but find the path to climb that you enjoy the most.
I knew a lot of guys in comics who found it incredibly rewarding working on Marvel Properties their whole careers, and others who could only be satisfied working on their own creations. Quite a number of them did both, too.
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Jason, I was thinking the exact same thing. Different strokes for different folks. We're all individuals with various factors that lead to our ultimate enjoyment. If Mark can find more satisfaction doing his own thing, I applaud that.
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Here's what they said;
Hyde changed too many letters, there's too many cat gags in Wackys these days, he never heard of the national bottled water called "Sparkletts", no explanation on GoonPie, Fisties was too mean, he thought Country Spock was a legal issue, though he was totally wrong. Nobody can own the name of "Spock" and the caricature doesn't show a Star Trek uniform. They suggested I redraw the bursting packs on CrabbySun but rejected it in the meantime. Maybe my gags are not funny enough or maybe they're not rendered well enough but they're just rough ideas. They could have been refined later. Taglines can be changed minute to minute but they just shot 'em down.
Here's another sketch they rejected. They said it was too vague.
Don't take the rejections personally. As an artist, it's a part of life I'm sure you're already familiar with. Sometimes you'll just get a "no." I also scratched my head at some of the gags they didn't want. If you're high on a gag, try asking to find out what they particularly didn't like. (Sometimes it's fixable, sometimes not.) If you really like a gag, try to get feedback and keep resubmitting it with changes based on their feedback. I submitted one gag at least three or four different ways before they accepted it. I know Dave has to argue for ideas all the time.
I thought your Hold-Up gag and Cat gag very were good (cute, even!). I know some of the other gags you submitted are already being parodied.
But with Country Spock, you are obviously using the Spock character from Star Trek (uniform or not) so there are potential trademark problems. It's possible a court would decide it's a legal parody, it's possible a court would see it as infringement. You never know with cases like that. Topps just wants to avoid a C&D. But, of course, they have used Porky Pig in the past, so I'm not sure when they decide to bend their own rules.
You seem very down and discouraged. You used to jump all over those who disparaged Wackys and tell them they hate Wackys and get off the forum. Now you seem to have a toe in the dark side. I hope it's only temporary!
I'm particularly impressed with your painting and hope to see more.
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Don't take the rejections personally. As an artist, it's a part of life I'm sure you're already familiar with. Sometimes you'll just get a "no." I also scratched my head at some of the gags they didn't want. If you're high on a gag, try asking to find out what they particularly didn't like. (Sometimes it's fixable, sometimes not.) If you really like a gag, try to get feedback and keep resubmitting it with changes based on their feedback. I submitted one gag at least three or four different ways before they accepted it. I know Dave has to argue for ideas all the time.
I thought your Hold-Up gag and Cat gag very were good (cute, even!). I know some of the other gags you submitted are already being parodied.
But with Country Spock, you are obviously using the Spock character from Star Trek (uniform or not) so there are potential trademark problems. It's possible a court would decide it's a legal parody, it's possible a court would see it as infringement. You never know with cases like that. Topps just wants to avoid a C&D. But, of course, they have used Porky Pig in the past, so I'm not sure when they decide to bend their own rules.
You seem very down and discouraged. You used to jump all over those who disparaged Wackys and tell them they hate Wackys and get off the forum. Now you seem to have a toe in the dark side. I hope it's only temporary!
I'm particularly impressed with your painting and hope to see more.
Thanks
You're right about having my toe in the dark side. I sensed it last night as I wrote. I had high hopes of having many gags accepted and getting to paint all of them.
I don't mean to disparage the product. I still collect them. I never had a plan to change the brand. I saw a lot of the gags for ANS2010 and think there's some really good stuff in there, though surprisingly little or no horror or monster gags. Getting through the door was an emotional tumble for me. Crakola is right. I'm not the type to be part of someone else's project. Not anymore. I did just fine on shows like Buffy the Vampire Slayer and X-Files when I had to crank out monsters and vampires and change things all the time for whoever walked in from the production. But now I'm in a position to produce, finance and distribute whatever I can dream up. So I'd be a fool to waste time laboring for Topps.
Do you face any sort of censorship or editing of your comic strip?
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Thanks
You're right about having my toe in the dark side. I sensed it last night as I wrote. I had high hopes of having many gags accepted and getting to paint all of them.
I don't mean to disparage the product. I still collect them. I never had a plan to change the brand. I saw a lot of the gags for ANS2010 and think there's some really good stuff in there, though surprisingly little or no horror or monster gags. Getting through the door was an emotional tumble for me. Crakola is right. I'm not the type to be part of someone else's project. Not anymore. I did just fine on shows like Buffy the Vampire Slayer and X-Files when I had to crank out monsters and vampires and change things all the time for whoever walked in from the production. But now I'm in a position to produce, finance and distribute whatever I can dream up. So I'd be a fool to waste time laboring for Topps.
Do you face any sort of censorship or editing of your comic strip?
First, let me say I know exactly what you're talking about when you say it's hard to work for somebody else after basically being your own boss. You get spoiled.
I was self-syndicated when I started out so I had a ton of freedom. I got a lot of good feedback but one editor wanted me to tone it down a bit because he thought my work was a tad too violent for family newspapers. I remember how pissed I was, (What the hell does he know?) but looking back, he was right.
Now that I'm with a syndicate, my syndicate editors sometimes (but luckily rarely) ask me to change something. If they do, I try to argue my case effectively and many times will win. If I make a change, I can usually doing it without hurting the gag. Sometimes the gag is IMPROVED because I'm forced to think about it more, or to come up with a clever way to get around the censors. Don't get me wrong, I still try to push the envelope. I've learned some tricks and am amazed at some of the suggestive gags that get through to family newspapers. Occasionally a newspaper won't run a cartoon, but I understand.
My initial submissions to Topps were all rejected and I was sooo disappointed because I thought I had some strong ones. This time around, I talked to Jeff directly and was fortunate that things went better.
I also went into it consciously deciding to be flexible. I took some of Jeff's suggestions and didn't assume anything. (For instance, I was originally jazzed to parody products that had not yet been parodied. But Jeff wanted very popular products whether they had been parodied or not. So I changed my mode of thinking and did both. I also removed bugs from one parody without hurting the gag.) I knew I had to please him to get through. Luckily, he liked many of my gags, as is. I feel I had a slight advantage because I've been writing humor professionally since 1987. Yeah, newspaper comics are different, but some of the thought process translates.
I've always considered myself more of a writer than an artist, and I don't paint at all. I'm envious of you painters. The thing that's hardest for me to swallow is seeing the finished designs with some of my gags changed. I'm not used to that at all! But I knew what to expect that going in. I wasn't going to be in control.
I've received my share of rejections over the years, some nice, some blunt. I've learned not to take it personally. I've also learned to stop believing how good people say I am, or how bad people say I am. My skin has gotten a lot thicker since I started. All the bumps and problems and rejections and issues and problem clients have helped me get to this point.
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I did just fine on shows like Buffy the Vampire Slayer and X-Files when I had to crank out monsters and vampires and change things all the time for whoever walked in from the production.
You did work on Buffy and X-Files? Way cool!!!!
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surprisingly little or no horror or monster gags.
I think 7 or 8 of the 23 I did are horror gags!
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I'm enjoying following this thread to hear all of the various artists' experiences and thought processes. Thanks for the insight to all of you!
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I'm enjoying following this thread to hear all of the various artists' experiences and thought processes. Thanks for the insight to all of you!
Agreed, these types of threads really make visiting this forum very satisfying. I think we have gotten a bit over focused on character iconic-ness. Very few of the middle series wackys have what I would call iconic characters. Surely they are all recognizable but hardly classic. Mark's bees are very high quality and I would take high quality, colorful(getting away from so many brown wackys like in ANS), with simple and funny gags over wackys with an attempt at making a classic character in an overcluttered, average humor gag.
Topps is in an unenviable position as they possibly have more artists vying to create wacky titles than ever before. Tough to please everyone.
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Topps is in an unenviable position as they possibly have more artists vying to create wacky titles than ever before. Tough to please everyone.
I agree with this. With so many inputs you are going to get some new takes, new approaches and it challenges everyone to up their game. Win-win.
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Hey Mark,
Thanks for sharing the details of your experiences. If you had a hard time getting gags through then I should feel a lot more at ease that most of mine didn't get through. I do have a few that probably fit their criteria but at this point I need to take my new painting skills and create my own properties.
It's sad your cartoons are deemed too violent. Violence is a terrible thing in reality but it's pure gold for cartoon comedy. That's the amazing thing about the concept of violence. It can have a completely opposite effect depending on whether it's real or pretend. Media executives, like politicians, never think deep enough to figure these things out. When was the last time we saw a sitcom or movie as comedicly violent as the Three Stooges? Yet look how celebrated they are even today!
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I think 7 or 8 of the 23 I did are horror gags!
Oooooh, excellent!!
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You did work on Buffy and X-Files? Way cool!!!!
Also Babylon 5, Angel, Ghostbusters 2, Charmed, Nip/Tuck, Grey's Anatomy, From Dusk Till Dawn, Dogma, Hercules, Xena, Planet of the Apes, 300, Men in Black, covers for AC/DC and Marilyn Manson, Iron Maiden, etc, etc...
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Hey Mark,
Thanks for sharing the details of your experiences. If you had a hard time getting gags through then I should feel a lot more at ease that most of mine didn't get through. I do have a few that probably fit their criteria but at this point I need to take my new painting skills and create my own properties.
It's sad your cartoons are deemed too violent. Violence is a terrible thing in reality but it's pure gold for cartoon comedy. That's the amazing thing about the concept of violence. It can have a completely opposite effect depending on whether it's real or pretend. Media executives, like politicians, never think deep enough to figure these things out. When was the last time we saw a sitcom or movie as comedicly violent as the Three Stooges? Yet look how celebrated they are even today!
I don't consider my comic violent, but I learned better ways to show or to suggest violence when a gag calls for it. My point was I am cartooning for family newspapers and if I want to slip violence in, I still can and still do, but sometimes I have to be creative about it. Same thing with sex. I include it all the time in sly ways. It's a fun challenge and has actually made me a better cartoonist.
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I think Fruit Hold-Ups is one of the funniest gags I've seen! I still laugh when I look at it!
Kudos!
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I think Fruit Hold-Ups is one of the funniest gags I've seen! I still laugh when I look at it!
Kudos!
Thanks Zen! Glad it made someone out there laugh.
Here's one I did for Coffee Mate. Zapata liked it but still didn't approve it. He said it needed more words. That's the biggest problem I have with Wacky Packs today. They ruin the designs by cramming words all over the image. Of course there are exceptions, but the rule with ANS is "cram it".
I don't care to paint this one anyway. No characters. Maybe I could cram one in.
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Thanks Zen! Glad it made someone out there laugh.
Here's one I did for Coffee Mate. Zapata liked it but still didn't approve it. He said it needed more words. That's the biggest problem I have with Wacky Packs today. They ruin the designs by cramming words all over the image. Of course there are exceptions, but the rule with ANS is "cram it".
I don't care to paint this one anyway. No characters. Maybe I could cram one in.
I agree Mark! I like the simple ones also...BTW I think "Coffee Meat" is great! You should consider doing your own series, kind of like what "Neil Camera" (Koduck) did w/the "Pranky Products" I'm all but positive 90% of the people here would buy a set...I know I would buy several! Just a thought, hope you had a "Wacky Weekend" Take care...RonZ 8)
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Thanks Zen! Glad it made someone out there laugh.
Here's one I did for Coffee Mate. Zapata liked it but still didn't approve it. He said it needed more words. That's the biggest problem I have with Wacky Packs today. They ruin the designs by cramming words all over the image. Of course there are exceptions, but the rule with ANS is "cram it".
I don't care to paint this one anyway. No characters. Maybe I could cram one in.
I agree that the ANS titles seem to be a little too "busy" which takes away from the characters. Old School had a much cleaner look like the OS series which I prefer.
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Thanks Zen! Glad it made someone out there laugh.
Here's one I did for Coffee Mate. Zapata liked it but still didn't approve it. He said it needed more words. That's the biggest problem I have with Wacky Packs today. They ruin the designs by cramming words all over the image. Of course there are exceptions, but the rule with ANS is "cram it".
I don't care to paint this one anyway. No characters. Maybe I could cram one in.
I agree with Zen, this is a funny title! But I also agree it could use one extra line. I definitely would have resubmitted that with one more line of text. It's good he told you what it needed because, like you said, sometimes you don't know why they are rejected. This might be easily fixable with a line like "Creamed Dairy Cow" or "Better than grinding your own" or something.
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I agree that the ANS titles seem to be a little too "busy" which takes away from the characters. Old School had a much cleaner look like the OS series which I prefer.
No doubt about it Rob, that's why I like the "Old School" series so much, I think someone else mentioned that w/all the (Promo) stuff for OS1 that the "set" itself was kind of overlooked and I tend to agree w/that reasoning. :^)
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I agree with Zen, this is a funny title! But I also agree it could use one extra line. I definitely would have resubmitted that with one more line of text. It's good he told you what it needed because, like you said, sometimes you don't know why they are rejected. This might be easily fixable with a line like "Creamed Dairy Cow" or "Better than grinding your own" or something.
(insert Beavis laugh)...he he...you said "grind" LOL
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I agree with Zen, this is a funny title! But I also agree it could use one extra line. I definitely would have resubmitted that with one more line of text. It's good he told you what it needed because, like you said, sometimes you don't know why they are rejected. This might be easily fixable with a line like "Creamed Dairy Cow" or "Better than grinding your own" or something.
I agree it could use a line. I just didn't understand why Zapata didn't accept it and then tell me to come up with some options for a line. Then I went on a tangent about wordy gags. I don't want to paint for Topps anymore so these gags will either rot in the ether or become part of my own series.
Dave's choice to go lean on the Old School designs was more than just nostalgic. It was a step towards good design. Good design is timeless. Good design didn't stop being so when Norm Saunders died.
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I agree with Zen, this is a funny title! But I also agree it could use one extra line. I definitely would have resubmitted that with one more line of text. It's good he told you what it needed because, like you said, sometimes you don't know why they are rejected. This might be easily fixable with a line like "Creamed Dairy Cow" or "Better than grinding your own" or something.
"Creamed Dairy Cow", clever!
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Creamed Dairy Cow is a good tagline. If I resubmit the gag can I use the line?
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Creamed Dairy Cow is a good tagline. If I resubmit the gag can I use the line?
Please do!
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Renderers do actually make milk substitutes out of animal fat. MacDonald's shakes are called "shakes" and not "milk shakes", on account of they use rendered animal fat in 'em and not milk. Hostess cupcakes creamy white filling is probably still rendered animal fat as well, unless they have found a cheaper vegetable substitute. The gag is funny...because it's true!
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and being from New England, especially Massachusetts...if you want a "shake" you're gonna get something different than you crazy West-Coast people!
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The art for the Old School sticker "Hickory Fools" is currently on ebay. The auction is going to end very shortly. The price is ridiculously low right now. If anyone is interested in it...now's the time.
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First, let me say I know exactly what you're talking about when you say it's hard to work for somebody else after basically being your own boss. You get spoiled.
I was self-syndicated when I started out so I had a ton of freedom. I got a lot of good feedback but one editor wanted me to tone it down a bit because he thought my work was a tad too violent for family newspapers. I remember how pissed I was, (What the hell does he know?) but looking back, he was right.
Now that I'm with a syndicate, my syndicate editors sometimes (but luckily rarely) ask me to change something. If they do, I try to argue my case effectively and many times will win. If I make a change, I can usually doing it without hurting the gag. Sometimes the gag is IMPROVED because I'm forced to think about it more, or to come up with a clever way to get around the censors. Don't get me wrong, I still try to push the envelope. I've learned some tricks and am amazed at some of the suggestive gags that get through to family newspapers. Occasionally a newspaper won't run a cartoon, but I understand.
My initial submissions to Topps were all rejected and I was sooo disappointed because I thought I had some strong ones. This time around, I talked to Jeff directly and was fortunate that things went better.
I also went into it consciously deciding to be flexible. I took some of Jeff's suggestions and didn't assume anything. (For instance, I was originally jazzed to parody products that had not yet been parodied. But Jeff wanted very popular products whether they had been parodied or not. So I changed my mode of thinking and did both. I also removed bugs from one parody without hurting the gag.) I knew I had to please him to get through. Luckily, he liked many of my gags, as is. I feel I had a slight advantage because I've been writing humor professionally since 1987. Yeah, newspaper comics are different, but some of the thought process translates.
I've always considered myself more of a writer than an artist, and I don't paint at all. I'm envious of you painters. The thing that's hardest for me to swallow is seeing the finished designs with some of my gags changed. I'm not used to that at all! But I knew what to expect that going in. I wasn't going to be in control.
I've received my share of rejections over the years, some nice, some blunt. I've learned not to take it personally. I've also learned to stop believing how good people say I am, or how bad people say I am. My skin has gotten a lot thicker since I started. All the bumps and problems and rejections and issues and problem clients have helped me get to this point.
Mark,
Sorry for the belated post but I'm just getting caught up reading all the forum threads. The points you make are really good ones and in one way or another pertain to all of us working for Topps. Personally, I can relate to the conundrum of submitting gags. Sending your hard work to Topps is a little like entering a contest. Many times, they end up in the "reject" pile and you end up asking yourself, how did they pass on this hilarious gag?! And even when you win, there's always the possibility that some detail or another is going to be altered, deleted, borrowed or otherwise "fixed". But if I've learned anything, it's that the editors know their product really well, and they can sense when a gag is right. It's that 2nd sense thing.
Having introduced new artists into the recent postcard series, I'm now in a position of having to make some of those tough choices (more so because the set is so small!). The hardest part is having to tell someone their gag wasn't selected - that really sucks! But it's kind of like holding a deck of cards and each one gets discarded as you play. Once in a while, I have to use one of those cards to say, "Trust me, this is a great gag" or "You've got to give this artist a shot". In your case, I used one of those cards because I knew (and you knew) that you were the genuine article. I'm really happy that things have worked out so well for you and I'm sure you'll be spending plenty of your days (and nights!) at the Wacky drawing table! Just remember, keep those editors happy!
best,
-Neil
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Mark,
Sorry for the belated post but I'm just getting caught up reading all the forum threads. The points you make are really good ones and in one way or another pertain to all of us working for Topps. Personally, I can relate to the conundrum of submitting gags. Sending your hard work to Topps is a little like entering a contest. Many times, they end up in the "reject" pile and you end up asking yourself, how did they pass on this hilarious gag?! And even when you win, there's always the possibility that some detail or another is going to be altered, deleted, borrowed or otherwise "fixed". But if I've learned anything, it's that the editors know their product really well, and they can sense when a gag is right. It's that 2nd sense thing.
Having introduced new artists into the recent postcard series, I'm now in a position of having to make some of those tough choices (more so because the set is so small!). The hardest part is having to tell someone their gag wasn't selected - that really sucks! But it's kind of like holding a deck of cards and each one gets discarded as you play. Once in a while, I have to use one of those cards to say, "Trust me, this is a great gag" or "You've got to give this artist a shot". In your case, I used one of those cards because I knew (and you knew) that you were the genuine article. I'm really happy that things have worked out so well for you and I'm sure you'll be spending plenty of your days (and nights!) at the Wacky drawing table! Just remember, keep those editors happy!
best,
-Neil
Thanks, Neil! I hope none of that was perceived as complaining because it wasn't. Just things I've learned along the way. Thanks for sucking me into the Wacky family!
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Here's what they said;
...Country Spock was a legal issue...
I finally stumbled on to this whole thread. Some fascinating reading all the way around and some great art and gags to look at too. I look at some of these finished pieces with solid art and knowing they were rejected I wonder yet again how in the world some of the artistically weak ones got through in past ANS sets if they are so picky.
It's also hilarious how Topps felt that Country Spock was a legal issue and then they go ahead and publish Kiss Kat in ANS7. Makes no sense.
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I finally stumbled on to this whole thread. Some fascinating reading all the way around and some great art and gags to look at too. I look at some of these finished pieces with solid art and knowing they were rejected I wonder yet again how in the world some of the artistically weak ones got through in past ANS sets if they are so picky.
It's also hilarious how Topps felt that Country Spock was a legal issue and then they go ahead and publish Kiss Kat in ANS7. Makes no sense.
Exactly. Like I said, they used Porky Pig in the past so sometimes they decide to bend their own rules.
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Thanks, Neil! I hope none of that was perceived as complaining because it wasn't. Just things I've learned along the way.
Not at all! Your stories are something we can all relate to! I just wish it were easier to get guys with your talent involved in wackys!
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This may come as no surprise, bit I've got a growing pile of Wacky Rejects as well. I'd love to know why they ended up as rejects... but have also accepted it as part of the process. I'm hoping some day they make it into a Wacky Rejects series... kind of an island of misfit stickers. Probably be the greatest series ever created. (or possibly the worst.)
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This may come as no surprise, bit I've got a growing pile of Wacky Rejects as well. I'd love to know why they ended up as rejects... but have also accepted it as part of the process. I'm hoping some day they make it into a Wacky Rejects series... kind of an island of misfit stickers. Probably be the greatest series ever created. (or possibly the worst.)
Sounds like a great project to me!
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This may come as no surprise, bit I've got a growing pile of Wacky Rejects as well. I'd love to know why they ended up as rejects... but have also accepted it as part of the process. I'm hoping some day they make it into a Wacky Rejects series... kind of an island of misfit stickers. Probably be the greatest series ever created. (or possibly the worst.)
If they're not stickers you could call them "Wacky Discards" ;D
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Does the Topps Vault plan anytime before 2010 is over to have up for auction the art for shut out of Wacky Packages ANS7 Wack-O-Mercial entry "Sparkler Paper Towels"? Unless this is planned for a 7th. Wacky Packages postcard series?
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Can anyone identify the players in this fascinating scene? All I know is that it took place in Vegas.
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Can anyone identify the players in this fascinating scene? All I know is that it took place in Vegas.
Hey Mark,
That would be the Big Vegas trading session that occurred back in the summer of 2000/2001...
The person on the left is Scott Broberg, in the middle is Matt Stock, and on the right is John Mellard. I believe Greg Grant was there as well, and is probably the one that is taking the picture.
Oh, and it was discussed back then (by Scott) to play a game of poker and ante-up a piece of art!... true story.
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I'm confused by the lines around the lettering on this Brylscream art. Where the letters attached separately?
http://cgi.ebay.com/2009-Topps-Wacky-Packages-Old-School-Art-BRYLSCREAM-/150508985879
I'm also noticing it on this art piece as well.
http://cgi.ebay.com/2009-Topps-Wacky-Packages-Old-School-Color-Art-BUBBLE-/140476540782
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I'm confused by the lines around the lettering on this Brylscream art. Where the letters attached separately?
http://cgi.ebay.com/2009-Topps-Wacky-Packages-Old-School-Art-BRYLSCREAM-/150508985879
I'm also noticing it on this art piece as well.
http://cgi.ebay.com/2009-Topps-Wacky-Packages-Old-School-Color-Art-BUBBLE-/140476540782
most likely separate. Dave talked about this during ANS4 I think, as a way to address all the complaints about the tiny lettering not looking picture perfect.
I believe your Stake 5 has some similar lettering, no?
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most likely separate. Dave talked about this during ANS4 I think, as a way to address all the complaints about the tiny lettering not looking picture perfect.
I believe your Stake 5 has some similar lettering, no?
None that I can see.
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I'm confused by the lines around the lettering on this Brylscream art. Where the letters attached separately?
http://cgi.ebay.com/2009-Topps-Wacky-Packages-Old-School-Art-BRYLSCREAM-/150508985879
I'm also noticing it on this art piece as well.
http://cgi.ebay.com/2009-Topps-Wacky-Packages-Old-School-Color-Art-BUBBLE-/140476540782
Dave Gross' method of doing text is to print it onto acetate, attach it to the painting and paint over it up to the text. So you can usually see the step from the art paper to the acetate. For some reason the paint tends to pull back from the edge of the acetate after a very short time and you end up with a white line at the edge of the acetate. Dave is always willing to do touch-ups for art buyers and he's painting more of the text now. It's not my favorite thing to see overlays stuck in the art but it has a kind of raw old school quality about it. I just hope that the ink he uses to print the text won't fade or change in 10 years. Text is extremely tedious to paint on a 5x7 Wacky. That's why I did all my paintings 11x14 to make it easier to paint text. Also so the art has more of a presence when hanging on the wall. It kinda sucks to pay thousands of dollars for paintings that look so tiny on display. Some artists paint them 8x10 and even a little bigger. Those have SO much more presence simply because of their size.
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Dave Gross' method of doing text is to print it onto acetate, attach it to the painting and paint over it up to the text. So you can usually see the step from the art paper to the acetate. For some reason the paint tends to pull back from the edge of the acetate after a very short time and you end up with a white line at the edge of the acetate. Dave is always willing to do touch-ups for art buyers and he's painting more of the text now. It's not my favorite thing to see overlays stuck in the art but it has a kind of raw old school quality about it. I just hope that the ink he uses to print the text won't fade or change in 10 years. Text is extremely tedious to paint on a 5x7 Wacky. That's why I did all my paintings 11x14 to make it easier to paint text. Also so the art has more of a presence when hanging on the wall. It kinda sucks to pay thousands of dollars for paintings that look so tiny on display. Some artists paint them 8x10 and even a little bigger. Those have SO much more presence simply because of their size.
I didn't measure the stakes art but it's like 6X10. I can't tell any attached lettering. If you look at the scan you can't see any. I was thinking of buying the Brylscream but after seeing that I'm not so sure.
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I didn't measure the stakes art but it's like 6X10. I can't tell any attached lettering. If you look at the scan you can't see any. I was thinking of buying the Brylscream but after seeing that I'm not so sure.
really? after looking at that high res scan of Stake 5, I swear there are 3 sets of attached lettering:
Help Me
Keep Vampires at bay with
made with garlic mirrors sunlight
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really? after looking at that high res scan of Stake 5, I swear there are 3 sets of attached lettering:
Help Me
Keep Vampires at bay with
made with garlic mirrors sunlight
You are right. I never noticed it before. I just felt the art and put it under a lighted magnifying glass and yes you are correct. Now I feel cheated :'(
It looks like a sticker was applied. It's not obvious to the naked eye but once you magnify it then it's pretty obvious. Not as noticeable as the 2 ebay sketches I mentioned though.
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Can anyone identify the players in this fascinating scene? All I know is that it took place in Vegas.
I don't know who they are but I can tell you it was taken on May 3rd, 2003 at 6:47pm with a Nikon E3500 @ ISO 196 / with an aperture of f/2.7 and a shutter speed of 1/60th of a second.
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Hey Mark,
That would be the Big Vegas trading session that occurred back in the summer of 2000/2001...
The person on the left is Scott Broberg, in the middle is Matt Stock, and on the right is John Mellard. I believe Greg Grant was there as well, and is probably the one that is taking the picture.
Oh, and it was discussed back then (by Scott) to play a game of poker and ante-up a piece of art!... true story.
Are Scott and John still Wacky art collectors? Or I guess it's "traders" since new Saunders art isn't showing up much in recent years.
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Dave Gross' method of doing text is to print it onto acetate, attach it to the painting and paint over it up to the text. So you can usually see the step from the art paper to the acetate. For some reason the paint tends to pull back from the edge of the acetate after a very short time and you end up with a white line at the edge of the acetate. Dave is always willing to do touch-ups for art buyers and he's painting more of the text now. It's not my favorite thing to see overlays stuck in the art but it has a kind of raw old school quality about it. I just hope that the ink he uses to print the text won't fade or change in 10 years. Text is extremely tedious to paint on a 5x7 Wacky. That's why I did all my paintings 11x14 to make it easier to paint text. Also so the art has more of a presence when hanging on the wall. It kinda sucks to pay thousands of dollars for paintings that look so tiny on display. Some artists paint them 8x10 and even a little bigger. Those have SO much more presence simply because of their size.
Tons of things wrong in this post so I have to jump in so it's accurate.
I hand painted all lettering on all my ANS2 and ANS3 paintings.
I used the overlays on most of the ANS4-ANS6 and OLDS1 lettering but it only recedes a hair's length on areas were I placed the acetate on the painting on unpainted paper. Any that I placed on top of a painted area looks fine. Something I discovered later. Most of ANS4 pieces don't show anything. You see it more on the other three series and it's a very thin line I can easily touch-up if it happened to show.
Important: It won't fade because I hand painted all the lettering over the acetate. I did not just leave the inkjet ink or paint it up to the text. It's on top of the text. It's the same as any other part of the painting.
ANS7 and the new OLDS2 are 95% hand painted. I'm only using the acetate now in mostly extreme spots where the lettering would be a nightmare (like some thing box sides). Most are fully hand painted and any place I do use the acetate it's over painted areas so none of the ANS7 or OLDS2 pieces will show lines. Ditz, for example is 100% acetate free but Just For Wolfmen I used it on the box side and some tiny black lettering yet it won't recede because I placed it over the painted areas and then painted over the acetate. The last 20 or so OLDS2 I painted I literally only used the acetate on 1 single line of text.
I paint at 5x7 because that is what Saunders and the other original OS artists did. If anyone has ever seen Greg's art wall I think the small paintings have a ton of presence especially in nice grouping. I like this size better. More intimate and they look great framed with a version of the sticker next to it (the rough as well).
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I didn't measure the stakes art but it's like 6X10. I can't tell any attached lettering. If you look at the scan you can't see any. I was thinking of buying the Brylscream but after seeing that I'm not so sure.
If you did get this piece it's a super easy fix. I just have to touch-up the black which is straight from the tube. All the lettering is hand painted on the acetate so it's not just a printed thing stuck down. It's just there to be a guide for accurate lettering. It's like using the press on lettering but that stuff can crumble or can rub off. I didn't learn of the receding spots until OLDS1 and anything after that I know exactly what to do to prevent it. Again, I'm also leaving the acetate behind in at least 95% of the situations because I don't need it anymore.
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You are right. I never noticed it before. I just felt the art and put it under a lighted magnifying glass and yes you are correct. Now I feel cheated :'(
It looks like a sticker was applied. It's not obvious to the naked eye but once you magnify it then it's pretty obvious. Not as noticeable as the 2 ebay sketches I mentioned though.
That sucks dude.........I'll give you 100 bucks for it.
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The name is actually "Sparker," without an "L." Unlike the legendary "Cream of Meat," the Sparker gag was painted. I think it's too soon after ANS7 to tell what Topps will do with it but I doubt that you would see it in a Postcard set.
Does the Topps Vault plan anytime before 2010 is over to have up for auction the art for shut out of Wacky Packages ANS7 Wack-O-Mercial entry "Sparkler Paper Towels"? Unless this is planned for a 7th. Wacky Packages postcard series?
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Tons of things wrong in this post so I have to jump in so it's accurate.
I hand painted all lettering on all my ANS2 and ANS3 paintings.
I used the overlays on most of the ANS4-ANS6 and OLDS1 lettering but it only recedes a hair's length on areas were I placed the acetate on the painting on unpainted paper. Any that I placed on top of a painted area looks fine. Something I discovered later. Most of ANS4 pieces don't show anything. You see it more on the other three series and it's a very thin line I can easily touch-up if it happened to show.
Important: It won't fade because I hand painted all the lettering over the acetate. I did not just leave the inkjet ink or paint it up to the text. It's on top of the text. It's the same as any other part of the painting.
ANS7 and the new OLDS2 are 95% hand painted. I'm only using the acetate now in mostly extreme spots where the lettering would be a nightmare (like some thing box sides). Most are fully hand painted and any place I do use the acetate it's over painted areas so none of the ANS7 or OLDS2 pieces will show lines. Ditz, for example is 100% acetate free but Just For Wolfmen I used it on the box side and some tiny black lettering yet it won't recede because I placed it over the painted areas and then painted over the acetate. The last 20 or so OLDS2 I painted I literally only used the acetate on 1 single line of text.
I paint at 5x7 because that is what Saunders and the other original OS artists did. If anyone has ever seen Greg's art wall I think the small paintings have a ton of presence especially in nice grouping. I like this size better. More intimate and they look great framed with a version of the sticker next to it (the rough as well).
I figured you'd clarify the specifics. Our opinions differ about the size though. Saunders did 5x7 because of production limitations of the time. There's no question he would have done them larger if he was allowed. Especially with his vision problems. If he came back today I think he'd say "What's with you guys? Paint bigger!" When I opened the box on my first ANS piece and saw the size I said...whuh? But I realize there's a nostalgic purpose for you to do them in that size. Que sera sera.
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Fred's right, Sparker won't ever be a postcard.
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I figured you'd clarify the specifics. Our opinions differ about the size though. Saunders did 5x7 because of production limitations of the time. There's no question he would have done them larger if he was allowed. Especially with his vision problems. If he came back today I think he'd say "What's with you guys? Paint bigger!" When I opened the box on my first ANS piece and saw the size I said...whuh? But I realize there's a nostalgic purpose for you to do them in that size. Que sera sera.
Norm's pulp cover art is much bigger, it is some of the most beautiful art you will ever see. I have seen several in person. I agree, he would have painted bigger if he was allowed. I thought he painted smaller because Topps wanted to reduce distortion possibilities of the image in sizing to the card size.
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The general rule is that you can get more detail in a 5x7 painting than say, an 18x24. That's one of the biggest reasons they were originally painted so small. But Norm's style was well suited for a larger canvas, so I suppose if he had painted wackys larger, they would have been as good (if not better) than the smaller boards he painted on.
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The general rule is that you can get more detail in a 5x7 painting than say, an 18x24.
Could you elaborate on that a little bit? I assume for many non-artists like myself, that’s contrary to the assumption that more space allows for more detail.
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I figured you'd clarify the specifics. Our opinions differ about the size though. Saunders did 5x7 because of production limitations of the time. There's no question he would have done them larger if he was allowed. Especially with his vision problems. If he came back today I think he'd say "What's with you guys? Paint bigger!" When I opened the box on my first ANS piece and saw the size I said...whuh? But I realize there's a nostalgic purpose for you to do them in that size. Que sera sera.
Next series I'll paint the first one at a bigger size and see how I like it and also find out if it doubles my work time. That is also something I'd have to consider. It would obviously make the lettering easier to paint so maybe would make up for any extra time the rest would be. I'm sure Norm wouldn't have liked to have had double the work for the pay Topps was giving him! The complaints of his pay have been so well documented.
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Could you elaborate on that a little bit? I assume for many non-artists like myself, that’s contrary to the assumption that more space allows for more detail.
Sure. Here's a simple (?) equation that should make more sense of it:
The number of brush strokes per square inch is directly proportionate to the amount of detail. Because an artist is more likely to use a small brush (00 or 000) on a typical wacky canvas, inevitably you get more detail.
Here's an example: Let's say I paint the same wacky twice. One's a 5x7 and the other 18 x 24. A square inch on the 5x7 will probably have dozen's of brush strokes (if not hundreds). That same area on a 18 x 24 is likely to have maybe a dozen, because I'd be using a much larger brush. Unless of course, I was nuts, and used a 000 brush. Then it would blow my equation all to hell!
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Sure. Here's a simple (?) equation that should make more sense of it:
The number of brush strokes per square inch is directly proportionate to the amount of detail. Because an artist is more likely to use a small brush (00 or 000) on a typical wacky canvas, inevitably you get more detail.
Here's an example: Let's say I paint the same wacky twice. One's a 5x7 and the other 18 x 24. A square inch on the 5x7 will probably have dozen's of brush strokes (if not hundreds). That same area on a 18 x 24 is likely to have maybe a dozen, because I'd be using a much larger brush. Unless of course, I was nuts, and used a 000 brush. Then it would blow my equation all to hell!
I've used 00 and 000 brushes on models, and the thought of using them on a canvas boggles my mind!
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Sure. Here's a simple (?) equation that should make more sense of it:
The number of brush strokes per square inch is directly proportionate to the amount of detail. Because an artist is more likely to use a small brush (00 or 000) on a typical wacky canvas, inevitably you get more detail.
Here's an example: Let's say I paint the same wacky twice. One's a 5x7 and the other 18 x 24. A square inch on the 5x7 will probably have dozen's of brush strokes (if not hundreds). That same area on a 18 x 24 is likely to have maybe a dozen, because I'd be using a much larger brush. Unless of course, I was nuts, and used a 000 brush. Then it would blow my equation all to hell!
Great explanation, thanks.
On one hand I assume there must be huge difference in technique when painting a small 5x7 canvas with a tiny 000 brush, compared to say, the Sistine Chapel.
But on the other hand, it might be the same, only a difference in scale.
I wonder if Michelangelo looked like Ditch Boy up there on his scaffold.
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Sure. Here's a simple (?) equation that should make more sense of it:
The number of brush strokes per square inch is directly proportionate to the amount of detail. Because an artist is more likely to use a small brush (00 or 000) on a typical wacky canvas, inevitably you get more detail.
Here's an example: Let's say I paint the same wacky twice. One's a 5x7 and the other 18 x 24. A square inch on the 5x7 will probably have dozen's of brush strokes (if not hundreds). That same area on a 18 x 24 is likely to have maybe a dozen, because I'd be using a much larger brush. Unless of course, I was nuts, and used a 000 brush. Then it would blow my equation all to hell!
Quality over quantity I prefer. More can be accomplished with fewer but skilled brush strokes.
When painting Wackys on a larger canvas the improvements would be found in two key areas. The text would be sharper and gradients would be more finessed. I've noticed most of the 5x7 Wacky art by today's artists lack a subtle gradation on rounded forms like faces and arms. Norm had an extraordinary ability to blend so well that he could render a tiny face without showing the color gradations as steps. It would be a perfect blend from light to dark and into the next color. I think painting larger would help the younger artists of today improve that quality. Lest we forget, Saunders was a genius from the start AND he had a lifetime of practice before he got to Wacky Packs.
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I wasn't talking about quality vs quantity. I think we can all agree, quality wins out. I was referring to the law of averages when it comes to the number of brush strokes. Even Norm Saunders would have been more apt to apply more brush strokes on a smaller painting than a larger one. Your certainly right about his style,though - he got a lot of mileage out of every brush stroke.
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I was referring to the law of averages when it comes to the number of brush strokes. Even Norm Saunders would have been more apt to apply more brush strokes on a smaller painting than a larger one. Simple as that.
By your measure, I should be able to paint the side of my house with just a few strokes. If you're not using your detail brushes just because you've scaled up to a larger canvas then you're not taking full advantage of what a larger canvas has to offer and you're probably not spending enough time blending gradations.
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I painted my ANS6 and ANS7 stuff at the traditional 5x7 size. I painted my one postcard piece at something more like 8x10. My aging eyes liked the 8x10 a little better, and I don't recall that it took appreciably longer.
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Next series I'll paint the first one at a bigger size and see how I like it and also find out if it doubles my work time.
Oh man that's exciting to hear! Thanks for trying out a larger size.
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By your measure, I should be able to paint the side of my house with just a few strokes. If you're not using your detail brushes just because you've scaled up to a larger canvas then you're not taking full advantage of what a larger canvas has to offer and you're probably not spending enough time blending gradations.
Here's my "art lesson" for you: If you paint a house, you're going to use the biggest brush you can get, right? If you paint a 5x7 wacky, you're going to use a little brush. Painting 101.
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Here's my "art lesson" for you: If you paint a house, you're going to use the biggest brush you can get, right? If you paint a 5x7 wacky, you're going to use a little brush. Painting 101.
"End Of The Lesson"
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Maybe Sparker could be a contender if Topps gets a green light for Wacky Packages ANS8 in 2011.
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Maybe Sparker could be a contender if Topps gets a green light for Wacky Packages ANS8 in 2011.
Sparker is a Lost Wacky now. They won't use it. They pulled it due to excessive violence (they don't like the idea of a pyromaniac and burning down the family house). Here is the pic:
(http://s1.postimage.org/29b1mgtms/sparkerfinalsmall.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/29b1mgtms/)
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Bummer. That's a pretty cool one - but I can see where it might have made them a little to skittish.
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Bummer. That's a pretty cool one - but I can see where it might have made them a little to skittish.
I agree on both counts.
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Sparker is a Lost Wacky now. They won't use it. They pulled it due to excessive violence (they don't like the idea of a pyromaniac and burning down the family house). Here is the pic:
(http://s1.postimage.org/29b1mgtms/sparkerfinalsmall.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/29b1mgtms/)
I like it. I'll give you $100 for the art ;D
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I like it. I'll give you $100 for the art ;D
Topps bought it so they will auction it off at some point I would imagine.
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I found a recent pic of the Spit and Spill art. It's in bad shape.
Kleenaxe looks really god. Look how nicely this character is rendered. Subtle. No heavy contrast. Just a few hints of white highlights. Lots of personality. Forms feel rounded rather than looking flat like a cartoon character. Sure it's cartoony. But it's illustrative cartoony. Not Sunday comics cartoony. We need more of this type of character rendering in today's Wacky Packages.
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I found a recent pic of the Spit and Spill art. It's in bad shape.
Kleenaxe looks really god. Look how nicely this character is rendered. Subtle. No heavy contrast. Just a few hints of white highlights. Lots of personality. Forms feel rounded rather than looking flat like a cartoon character. Sure it's cartoony. But it's illustrative cartoony. Not Sunday comics cartoony. We need more of this type of character rendering in today's Wacky Packages.
As Rob has mentioned before and I agree entirely - It's artwork like this (Saunders) that is the reason we are all here on a website about wackys today, 35 to 40 or so years later. I highly doubt we'd be passionately collecting crazy covers (or other similar "cartoonish" art) from the day.
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I never quite got this giant head spitting on a house gag for Spit and Spill. I like it but don't get the concept.
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I never quite got this giant head spitting on a house gag for Spit and Spill. I like it but don't get the concept.
The original product had a mop pictured on the front of the box. So, the mop handle became the spit stream, and the mop head became the house. See the pic below. Couldn't find the exact one with a quick search... The box color is wrong, but you get the idea.
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I found a recent pic of the Spit and Spill art. It's in bad shape.
Kleenaxe looks really god.
you're right - Kleenaxe *is* god. All hail the axe.
dang. that Spit and Spill is messed up. And after seeing this great scan and the smaller details - I gotta wonder. Is that really a Saunders painting? Because I don't think it looks good enough to be his work. It looks too crude and doesn't have his amazing finesse for detail that his others have.
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you're right - Kleenaxe *is* god. All hail the axe.
dang. that Spit and Spill is messed up. And after seeing this great scan and the smaller details - I gotta wonder. Is that really a Saunders painting? Because I don't think it looks good enough to be his work. It looks too crude and doesn't have his amazing finesse for detail that his others have.
Saunders painted with varying degrees of detail and finesse. On Spit and Spill you can tell by the character rendering that it's a Saunders.
It's cool to see they never actually painted over the "Spic and Span" on the top and side flaps.
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Saunders painted with varying degrees of detail and finesse. On Spit and Spill you can tell by the character rendering that it's a Saunders.
hmm. that's exactly why I don't think it's Saunders, those characters. Especially the little dude running away. The legs and arms are out of proportion and the face is very cartoonish. and those hands. what's up with those?
And that house is poorly done too. The two sets of windows don't match up in size. Saunders was amazing at the precision stuff and I think he would have gotten the two window panes to be near identical.
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The original product had a mop pictured on the front of the box. So, the mop handle became the spit stream, and the mop head became the house. See the pic below. Couldn't find the exact one with a quick search... The box color is wrong, but you get the idea.
Thanks for posting that. You forget how these products looked at the time. It might even be the same today because I don't buy Spic and Span
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hmm. that's exactly why I don't think it's Saunders, those characters. Especially the little dude running away. The legs and arms are out of proportion and the face is very cartoonish. and those hands. what's up with those?
And that house is poorly done too. The two sets of windows don't match up in size. Saunders was amazing at the precision stuff and I think he would have gotten the two window panes to be near identical.
I totally agree and with the painting blown up you can really see the lack of detail. Are we really sure this was a Saunders piece?
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Saunders painted with varying degrees of detail and finesse. On Spit and Spill you can tell by the character rendering that it's a Saunders.
I agree. Saunders knew that he was painting for trading card size and for poor printing. Detail was going to be lost anyway. The enlarged scan doesn't represent the size he worked on. Print it out at 5 x 7 size and you'll see that the running figure, for example, is less than an inch tall. And on the sticker he's under half an inch. But the character's expression and action are communicated clearly.
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100% Saunders. No doubt in my mind. Blow up Sugar Daffy. That is the stuff that shows you some serious non-Saunders work.
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The original product had a mop pictured on the front of the box. So, the mop handle became the spit stream, and the mop head became the house. See the pic below. Couldn't find the exact one with a quick search... The box color is wrong, but you get the idea.
Saw this discussion, and pulled this from my files to post. It's pretty much the exact early 70's Spic and Span box that is parodied on Spit and Spill.
(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5127/5243080777_80ab53125e_z.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/jasonliebigstuff/5243080777/)
Proctor & Gamble - Spic and Span - cleaner box package - 1970's (http://www.flickr.com/photos/jasonliebigstuff/5243080777/) by JasonLiebig (http://www.flickr.com/people/jasonliebigstuff/), on Flickr
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We need more of this type of character rendering in today's Wacky Packages.
I get your point, but it's kinda like watching Michael Jordan play and saying "we need more of this type of play in the NBA." In terms of style, I agree with you, it's the execution that's harder to match.
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I get your point, but it's kinda like watching Michael Jordan play and saying "we need more of this type of play in the NBA." In terms of style, I agree with you, it's the execution that's harder to match.
Norm created a style for Wacky Packs. That was the hard part. That was the genius. Replicating a style is easy. I don't mean to diminish Saunders but he is by no means the Michal Jordan of illustration. Rockwell could've beat Saunders with one eye tied behind his back. Besides, Norm's Wacky work was a simpler element of his talents. I can name several Wacky artists working today who I am sure are capable of coming close to Norm's Wacky style or some variation of it if they practice. They need to stop spending so much time on gag writing and practice illustrative character design. Characters are more important to Wackys than gags. Characters last longer and resonate deeper than any play on words.
Here's what I suggest to those artists. You start by copying Norm's characters. That's not too hard. I've done it with good results and I have little experience with painting. The next step is to invent variations of Norm's characters. Then finally you branch off and create your own characters while applying Norm's methods. There are methods in Norm's work. Methods can be duplicated. One of them is finding good photographic reference. There's no shortage of odd looking people on the internet or on your block. Another is to practice copying the character styles of Jack Davis, Wally Wood, Will Elder and Jay Lynch. Most of Norm's characters are based on the designs of those artists.
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Characters are more important to Wackys than gags. Characters last longer and resonate deeper than any play on words.
I'm not sure if that's as true today but it certainly was for me when I was a kid. I don't really remember reading the gags or trying to understand what they meant, but I definitely focused on the character and the overall look of the art.
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I think Norm's genius was his ability to simulate details in a limited space. He knew the images were going to be reduced so he added a kind of loose detail. It isn't fussy or tight at all. Once the image is reduced, it all falls into place and look rather amazing.
I also think copying a Saunders character is one thing and it's another thing to be able to apply his style to someone's own work. For instance, Plan 9's ability to paint the Kleenaxe guy was stunning. I don't think, however, that the Sweet 'N Slow woman looks like a Saunders piece. I think it's bold thing for a painter to attempt to replicate his style but still difficult to accomplish.
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I'm not sure if that's as true today but it certainly was for me when I was a kid. I don't really remember reading the gags or trying to understand what they meant, but I definitely focused on the character and the overall look of the art.
It was the whole enchilada for me. I would not have had any interest in Wackys at all if they were not funny. And I would only be mildly interested if the art wasn't so perfect.
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Norm created a style for Wacky Packs. That was the hard part. That was the genius. Replicating a style is easy. I don't mean to diminish Saunders but he is by no means the Michal Jordan of illustration. Rockwell could've beat Saunders with one eye tied behind his back. Besides, Norm's Wacky work was a simpler element of his talents. I can name several Wacky artists working today who I am sure are capable of coming close to Norm's Wacky style or some variation of it if they practice. They need to stop spending so much time on gag writing and practice illustrative character design. Characters are more important to Wackys than gags. Characters last longer and resonate deeper than any play on words.
Here's what I suggest to those artists. You start by copying Norm's characters. That's not too hard. I've done it with good results and I have little experience with painting. The next step is to invent variations of Norm's characters. Then finally you branch off and create your own characters while applying Norm's methods. There are methods in Norm's work. Methods can be duplicated. One of them is finding good photographic reference. There's no shortage of odd looking people on the internet or on your block. Another is to practice copying the character styles of Jack Davis, Wally Wood, Will Elder and Jay Lynch. Most of Norm's characters are based on the designs of those artists.
I once met an actor who sort of looked like Heath Ledger, and after some discussion, he stated in no uncertain terms that he could do what Ledger did - that it "wasn't that difficult." Perhaps he was right, but I only had his word to take. I could only see that he didn't have Ledger's career then... and doesn't have it now. I tell that story because some of your statements here raise the same kind of skepticism in me.
I think you're accurate in stating that creating the style Norm did was genius. I agree. But to imply that he wasn't making new artistic decisions on each piece he approached, if that's what you're implying (I'm not certain) - I think that's flawed.
Copying a style, be it in music, visual art, or literature is a skill - but when that work makes an impact - there's more to it than that.
The ideas or advice you offer here appears reasonable and sound - but do you believe the current crop of Wacky Packages painters are missing something that you're seeing? Is it clear they're not already taking ideas like this into consideration?
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100% Saunders. No doubt in my mind. Blow up Sugar Daffy. That is the stuff that shows you some serious non-Saunders work.
Are you sure it is 100% Saunders? Recall that Norm touched up others' work so in some cases he did nothing but try to lend 3D rendering to otherwise average work. We used to have debates on whether Norm just touching a piece made it a "Saunders" piece. For me it became easy at that point, lower grade work like Spic N Span is lower grade work, end of story. I stopped getting hung up on whether Saunders blew his nose on a piece to make it a Saunders piece.
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Norm created a style for Wacky Packs. That was the hard part. That was the genius. Replicating a style is easy. I don't mean to diminish Saunders but he is by no means the Michal Jordan of illustration. Rockwell could've beat Saunders with one eye tied behind his back. Besides, Norm's Wacky work was a simpler element of his talents. I can name several Wacky artists working today who I am sure are capable of coming close to Norm's Wacky style or some variation of it if they practice. They need to stop spending so much time on gag writing and practice illustrative character design. Characters are more important to Wackys than gags. Characters last longer and resonate deeper than any play on words.
Here's what I suggest to those artists. You start by copying Norm's characters. That's not too hard. I've done it with good results and I have little experience with painting. The next step is to invent variations of Norm's characters. Then finally you branch off and create your own characters while applying Norm's methods. There are methods in Norm's work. Methods can be duplicated. One of them is finding good photographic reference. There's no shortage of odd looking people on the internet or on your block. Another is to practice copying the character styles of Jack Davis, Wally Wood, Will Elder and Jay Lynch. Most of Norm's characters are based on the designs of those artists.
You might do yourself well to stop thinking Wackys were Norm's best work. far from it, might be some of his worst work due to his being given zero time to create these. Look at his Frankenstein sticker art or some of his Pulp covers and it is like Apples and Oranges. I dare say you would be hard pressed to match a Norm Pulp cover.
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Are you sure it is 100% Saunders? Recall that Norm touched up others' work so in some cases he did nothing but try to lend 3D rendering to otherwise average work. We used to have debates on whether Norm just touching a piece made it a "Saunders" piece. For me it became easy at that point, lower grade work like Spic N Span is lower grade work, end of story. I stopped getting hung up on whether Saunders blew his nose on a piece to make it a Saunders piece.
Yes, I'm sure. Looking at the brush strokes and the way the person and the house is constructed through paint it's clearly his work. The house and man are loose because they are so tiny and because they are all about action. The guy is much like the woman on Bash.
Here are the pieces I think are NOT Saunders (with a few half and half exceptions). I left off a tiny few like Bleech because who really knows? With no characters it's tougher but even some of them you can see the packaging does not have the type of linework Saunders normally does. I think there are some can lids he did not do on pieces where he clearly did the rest of the work as well.
Sugarmess, Ultra Blight, Gloom, 8-Lives, No-Tips, 1A, Quake N Ache, Taster's Choke, Light N Dizzy, Big Baddy, Plopsikle, Achoo, Hungry Jerk (hockey pucks), Pounds, Mold Rush, Piwi Blecch, Sugar Daffy, Fruit of the Tomb (painted everything EXCEPT the mummy), Blisterine, Supr Cigar Crisp, Peter Pain, Baby Runt, Snarlamint (may have painted the cig blood tips. If not then a decent copy job by someone else), Cut Rong, Whatmans, Jerkens, Bit-O-Money (Painted just the money bag area), Ditch Boy, Bar Kist, Sneer, Bum Bums, Big Muc, Medi-Quak, Hag N Hag, Caged, Big Banana, Leek, Soggy Babies, Oh Hairy, Blast Blue Ribbon, Hurtz Ketchup, Mex-Pax, Choke Up, Paid Killers (did not paint the gun at top. Not 100% about the bug), Jerkyfruits, Unpopular Mechanics, Easy Cuss-Words, Nooseweek, Crocked (I believe he did not paint stuff at top of magazine) National Spittoon, Rotsa Root
Last two series I would like to see 5x7 images but I'm suspicious of: Krummies, Cracked Lighter (the bug only), Bum & Mabel and Ultra Sheep. These may all be just styles to mimic something on the package or he just went minimal for effect. Regardless, they are all pretty weak work if they are his but I'm leaning towards them all being his.
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Yes, I'm sure. Looking at the brush strokes and the way the person and the house is constructed through paint it's clearly his work. The house and man are loose because they are so tiny and because they are all about action. The guy is much like the woman on Bash.
Here are the pieces I think are NOT Saunders (with a few half and half exceptions). I left off a tiny few like Bleech because who really knows? With no characters it's tougher but even some of them you can see the packaging does not have the type of linework Saunders normally does. I think there are some can lids he did not do on pieces where he clearly did the rest of the work as well.
Sugarmess, Ultra Blight, Gloom, 8-Lives, No-Tips, 1A, Quake N Ache, Taster's Choke, Light N Dizzy, Big Baddy, Plopsikle, Achoo, Hungry Jerk (hockey pucks), Pounds, Mold Rush, Piwi Blecch, Sugar Daffy, Fruit of the Tomb (painted everything EXCEPT the mummy), Blisterine, Supr Cigar Crisp, Peter Pain, Baby Runt, Snarlamint (may have painted the cig blood tips. If not then a decent copy job by someone else), Cut Rong, Whatmans, Jerkens, Bit-O-Money (Painted just the money bag area), Ditch Boy, Bar Kist, Sneer, Bum Bums, Big Muc, Medi-Quak, Hag N Hag, Caged, Big Banana, Leek, Soggy Babies, Oh Hairy, Blast Blue Ribbon, Hurtz Ketchup, Mex-Pax, Choke Up, Paid Killers (did not paint the gun at top. Not 100% about the bug), Jerkyfruits, Unpopular Mechanics, Easy Cuss-Words, Nooseweek, Crocked (I believe he did not paint stuff at top of magazine) National Spittoon, Rotsa Root
Last two series I would like to see 5x7 images but I'm suspicious of: Krummies, Cracked Lighter (the bug only), Bum & Mabel and Ultra Sheep. These may all be just styles to mimic something on the package or he just went minimal for effect. Regardless, they are all pretty weak work if they are his but I'm leaning towards them all being his.
Are you disputing the idea that Norm touched up some pieces? You seem to be projecting only "all or nothing" here and I don't believe that portrays how these were painted.
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You might do yourself well to stop thinking Wackys were Norm's best work. far from it, might be some of his worst work due to his being given zero time to create these. Look at his Frankenstein sticker art or some of his Pulp covers and it is like Apples and Oranges. I dare say you would be hard pressed to match a Norm Pulp cover.
I'm well aware that Wacky Packs are not Norm's best work. That's why I'm saying the simple approach he took can be replicated with adequate results or better.
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Are you disputing the idea that Norm touched up some pieces? You seem to be projecting only "all or nothing" here and I don't believe that portrays how these were painted.
You must not have read through my post. I have multiple examples listed of Norm and another artist working on the same piece and also mention that I think certain pieces he did some of the packaging while another artist did the rest. He also did not do the airbrush stuff I believe. I believe that Spit N Spill is entirely his though (sans box air brushing and I guess lettering).
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I think Norm's genius was his ability to simulate details in a limited space. He knew the images were going to be reduced so he added a kind of loose detail. It isn't fussy or tight at all. Once the image is reduced, it all falls into place and look rather amazing.
I also think copying a Saunders character is one thing and it's another thing to be able to apply his style to someone's own work. For instance, Plan 9's ability to paint the Kleenaxe guy was stunning. I don't think, however, that the Sweet 'N Slow woman looks like a Saunders piece. I think it's bold thing for a painter to attempt to replicate his style but still difficult to accomplish.
Glad you bring it up. If the word "difficult" scares any artist then he should get out of the business. The difficulty of great art is making it look easy.
I've seen artists and even non-artists replicate cartoon styles with their own flair. It can also be done with paint. I don't care if the work doesn't look exactly like Saunders, as long as it's good character illustration. If we all took a Norm Saunders course we would learn valuable information but apply it in our own ways.
It's not fair to compare my progress from my Kleenaxe character to Sweet n Slow. Sweet n Slow was severely rushed. Secondly, nobody is going to progress much from painting number 1 to painting number 6. I'm going to be hit and miss until I've had a lot more practice. I just hope I can find the time. I'd like to create the next Mars Attacks-type card series one day.
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I'm not sure if that's as true today but it certainly was for me when I was a kid. I don't really remember reading the gags or trying to understand what they meant, but I definitely focused on the character and the overall look of the art.
Just like with our generation some portion of today's kids are going to fondly remember ANS because of the overall look. None of those Wacky Pack clones get a second glance from me. They're all forgettable. ANS has a great look. Kids can't explain that but it's evident in the success of ANS sales. There are videos all over youtube of kids opening new Wacky Packs. One kid will say they're running out of ideas. Another will tell you his favorites from the pack.Then one kid will say he what he loves most is the art. That's a forum member from the year 2030.
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Just like with our generation some portion of today's kids are going to fondly remember ANS because of the overall look.
I hope you're right. I hope kids grow up with some sense of nostalgia, similar to ours. So many things have changed, and kids can carry so much of their lives with them now, I wonder how their nostalgia will operate.
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I hope you're right. I hope kids grow up with some sense of nostalgia, similar to ours. So many things have changed, and kids can carry so much of their lives with them now, I wonder how their nostalgia will operate.
Remember back before the hyper phone mind iNterlink was developed and you had to actually push buttons to
send a message...
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You must not have read through my post. I have multiple examples listed of Norm and another artist working on the same piece and also mention that I think certain pieces he did some of the packaging while another artists did the rest. He also did not do the airbrush stuff I believe. I believe that Spit N Spill is entirely his though (sans box air brushing and I guess lettering).
IT is a bit dizzying readling your list as a paragraph but I took the jist that you picked a small handful that you declare were shared and the rest as All Norm. I don't believe that to be the case and I think he touched up quite many more than just a few and the number of titles he didn't do at all is quite a bit more than you listed. I know David Saunders gave a shot at this long ago so I am going to see if I can dig out his list.
While on this topic, look at a piece like Dopey Whip, totally hum drum detail, flat uninspiring characters. Does it really matter if it is Saunders or not? Its being a diecut and series 1 piece with a word like "dopey" that kids love to say and showing cream in the face has more to do with its lure than art quality.
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IT is a bit dizzying readling your list as a paragraph but I took the jist that you picked a small handful that you declare were shared and the rest as All Norm. I don't believe that to be the case and I think he touched up quite many more than just a few and the number of titles he didn't do at all is quite a bit more than you listed. I know David Saunders gave a shot at this long ago so I am going to see if I can dig out his list.
While on this topic, look at a piece like Dopey Whip, totally hum drum detail, flat uninspiring characters. Does it really matter if it is Saunders or not? Its being a diecut and series 1 piece with a word like "dopey" that kids love to say and showing cream in the face has more to do with its lure than art quality.
All the ones I listed I believe were done by another artist except for the exceptions listed where I think Norm added something OR an in-house artist added something on Norm's piece (Mummy T-Shirt for example). There are around 10 or so I'm not sure about and would like to see larger images to decide. All the rest I think were done by Saunders exclusively with the exception of lettering or proper airbrushing. I think Dopey Whip is all Saunders and I also think other than the cream which is fantastic it's not a great painting. I agree with you that Saunders has some clunkers that are saved by nostalgia and series placement. I also would like to say that most of the non-Saunders pieces only have nostalgia going for them and if they were in the ANS people would be ripping them for the painting quality.
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Funny, I love Dopey Whip, not saying it's a great painting, but the look of pure joy on the face of the sprayer is infectious.
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Going to go back to Lipoff for a moment. There was still a little doubt that this was a Saunders piece due to David Saunders originally saying it was not. Today I finally sent him a hi-res scan of the painting and got this response:
Thank you for sending the excellent image of LIPOFF. I am certain it is
entirely painted and lettered by Norman Saunders, with just the faint wisp of
airbrush on the top panel added by a Topps airbrush artist.
I also wrote Zina to see what she says. Will post when (if) I get a response.
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Going to go back to Lipoff for a moment. There was still a little doubt that this was a Saunders piece due to David Saunders originally saying it was not. Today I finally sent him a hi-res scan of the painting and got this response:
Thank you for sending the excellent image of LIPOFF. I am certain it is
entirely painted and lettered by Norman Saunders, with just the faint wisp of
airbrush on the top panel added by a Topps airbrush artist.
I also wrote Zina to see what she says. Will post when (if) I get a response.
Very cool!
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Funny, I love Dopey Whip, not saying it's a great painting, but the look of pure joy on the face of the sprayer is infectious.
I think I'm just so hypnotized by that amazing cream at the top that I barely notice the rest of the piece.
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I think I'm just so hypnotized by that amazing cream at the top that I barely notice the rest of the piece.
I like Dopey Whip too. The cream and the expression on the guys face are priceless. He is somewhat flat compared to the rest (reminds me of The Jetsons style cartooning), but he is so happy it works.
(side topic: Spray Nit and Cover Ghoul are my least favorites. Spray Nit gives me the whilllys for some reason -- really, really creepy... Probably my least favorite Wacky)
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Does anybody know if there is a high-res scan of the BustedFinger original art available?
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Does anybody know if there is a high-res scan of the BustedFinger original art available?
I guess the answer is that nobody knows?
How 'bout this:
Does anybody have the link to Eric Roberts website where he has a bunch of art scans posted? I believe he owns (or did own) the Bustedfinger art so maybe there is a scan of it there?
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I guess the answer is that nobody knows?
How 'bout this:
Does anybody have the link to Eric Roberts website where he has a bunch of art scans posted? I believe he owns (or did own) the Bustedfinger art so maybe there is a scan of it there?
www.triksr4kids.com
But it's been under construction for a long time. Nothing to see.
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Does anybody know if there is a high-res scan of the BustedFinger original art available?
Here's a small version of the original scan. I'll upload the full size scan when I can.
[expando]http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/335340199_v3Hph-XL.jpg[/expando]
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www.trikr4kids.com
But it's been under construction for a long time. Nothing to see.
I guess you're right about "nothing to see"! That link doesn't work!!
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I guess you're right about "nothing to see"! That link doesn't work!!
[expando]http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/335340199_v3Hph-XL.jpg[/expando]
Oops, sorry about that. Fixed.... I think.
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Here's a small version of the original scan. I'll upload the full size scan when I can.
[expando]http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/335340199_v3Hph-XL.jpg[/expando]
Interesting that expando link didn't work in the post, but I was able to get the URL when I clicked on "quote". That is exactly what I am looking for. The biggest version you have would be perfect. Where did you find that scan?
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[expando]http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/335340199_v3Hph-XL.jpg[/expando]
Oops, sorry about that. Fixed.... I think.
Actually, I was replying to Plan's post to Eric's website. That link is not working!
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Actually, I was replying to Plan's post to Eric's website. That link is not working!
He left out a letter. It should be:
http://triksr4kids.com/
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Interesting that expando link didn't work in the post, but I was able to get the URL when I clicked on "quote". That is exactly what I am looking for. The biggest version you have would be perfect. Where did you find that scan?
I can't remember where I got it. It's been a few years.
Here's a larger version [expando]http://www.midaswelby.com/Bustedfinger-Art.jpg[/expando]
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I can't remember where I got it. It's been a few years.
Beautiful! Thanks very much! I appreciate it!!
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He left out a letter. It should be:
http://triksr4kids.com/
I wonder what is up with his site being "under construction" now? I remember that site used to have a bunch of great original art scans. I am pretty sure that Bustedfinger was one of them and I would not be surprised if that is where SueMee originally got it from.
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I wonder what is up with his site being "under construction" now? I remember that site used to have a bunch of great original art scans. I am pretty sure that Bustedfinger was one of them and I would not be surprised if that is where SueMee originally got it from.
That could very well be. I know that the site I got Bustedfinger from, there were 120+ scans of original art that someone had posted.
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I can't remember where I got it. It's been a few years.
Here's a larger version [expando]http://www.midaswelby.com/Bustedfinger-Art.jpg[/expando]
That band-aid is brilliant.
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Actually, I was replying to Plan's post to Eric's website. That link is not working!
I fixed the link. Here it is again.
www.triksr4kids.com
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That band-aid is brilliant.
I'll bet that's Norm's finger.
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Another great painting from that batch of original art. [expando]http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/335341345_Dz2i6-X2.jpg[/expando]
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That band-aid is brilliant.
That's a Band-Ache!
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Got my Crispux in last week and finally got time to scan. This one is 8X11 in size so it's quite big.
(http://s2.postimage.org/1lhutia04/ANS40.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/1lhutia04/)
This is a fairly high res scan so to see it bigger you need to click on view full size below the picture. The scan doesn't do it justice. The colors pop out more in person.
All of the letters are hand painted. One thing I did notice is that he used a pen to draw in the hockey sticks on the puck. He uses a pen a lot on his sketches as well. Interesting.
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Got my Crispux in last week and finally got time to scan. This one is 8X11 in size so it's quite big.
(http://s2.postimage.org/1lhutia04/ANS40.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/1lhutia04/)
This is a fairly high res scan so to see it bigger you need to click on view full size below the picture. The scan doesn't do it justice. The colors pop out more in person.
All of the letters are hand painted. One thing I did notice is that he used a pen to draw in the hockey sticks on the puck. He uses a pen a lot on his sketches as well. Interesting.
Hey Brad, thanks for posting but that scan is kinda wacked out. It's blurry. Can you post a better scan?
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Hey Brad, thanks for posting but that scan is kinda wacked out. It's blurry. Can you post a better scan?
It's blurry? Maybe my eyes aren't as good but it looks pretty good to me. I will scan it again soon. I can't tomorrow but by the weekend.
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It's blurry? Maybe my eyes aren't as good but it looks pretty good to me. I will scan it again soon. I can't tomorrow but by the weekend.
Thanks! (http://www.midaswelby.com/tipofthehat.gif)
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Hey Brad, thanks for posting but that scan is kinda wacked out. It's blurry. Can you post a better scan?
It's definitely a little fuzzy for a hi-res scan. It's strange though because the signature looks fairly sharp.
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take a look at the framed and matted Stake 5 Art.
(http://s3.postimage.org/z5qlquh0/IMG_0461.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/z5qlquh0/)
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It's definitely a little fuzzy for a hi-res scan. It's strange though because the signature looks fairly sharp.
I'd still love to see a good scan of Crispux.
Here's my interpretation of what the scan might look like, but I probably have the colors and values all wrong.
[expando]http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/1140024759_cpyPC-X2.jpg[/expando]
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take a look at the framed and matted Stake 5 Art.
(http://s3.postimage.org/z5qlquh0/IMG_0461.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/z5qlquh0/)
Looks great!
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I just scanned it again and used Photoshop to adjust pretty close to the original.
(http://s4.postimage.org/ya6nxmuc/ANS41.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/ya6nxmuc/)
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take a look at the framed and matted Stake 5 Art.
(http://s3.postimage.org/z5qlquh0/IMG_0461.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/z5qlquh0/)
That looks really nice! I like that red outline in the matting.
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I just scanned it again and used Photoshop to adjust pretty close to the original.
(http://s4.postimage.org/ya6nxmuc/ANS41.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/ya6nxmuc/)
Cool, Thanks Brad.
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He does a pretty decent job on lettering which I feel could be a total bitch job. I can't image how painstakingly of a job. The breakaway on the top could be better but overall I love it. I only wanted it for the hockey player. I thought he did a fantastic job with the character. overall I'm very pleased!
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He does a pretty decent job on lettering which I feel could be a total bitch job. I can't image how painstakingly of a job. The breakaway on the top could be better but overall I love it. I only wanted it for the hockey player. I thought he did a fantastic job with the character. overall I'm very pleased!
With this good scan I have a lot more appreciation for the character. I wish it didn't look so murky on the sticker. It reminds me of the Homer Simpson character from that other parody series. I think the gag was Krusty Donuts.
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Not sure where to post this really, but I figure this is a decent spot. I have a friend whose last name is Bonami, so I did this painting for him for Christmas. It's an 11"x14" gouache on board. It was fun to redo a Saunders, and while I see a lot of things I wish I did differently (I was not used to doing washes at that size) I am pretty happy with the result. I though y'all might like to see it.
(http://i971.photobucket.com/albums/ae193/shiverbone/boneami1002.jpg)
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Very Cool! Thanks for posting!
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I've always loved the character in Bone Ami. Awesome job!
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Not sure where to post this really, but I figure this is a decent spot. I have a friend whose last name is Bonami, so I did this painting for him for Christmas. It's an 11"x14" gouache on board. It was fun to redo a Saunders, and while I see a lot of things I wish I did differently (I was not used to doing washes at that size) I am pretty happy with the result. I though y'all might like to see it.
(http://i971.photobucket.com/albums/ae193/shiverbone/boneami1002.jpg)
Pretty nice study. Do more!
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Nice job! It looks great!! ;)
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Not sure where to post this really, but I figure this is a decent spot. I have a friend whose last name is Bonami, so I did this painting for him for Christmas. It's an 11"x14" gouache on board. It was fun to redo a Saunders, and while I see a lot of things I wish I did differently (I was not used to doing washes at that size) I am pretty happy with the result. I though y'all might like to see it.
If that is your first crack at replicating the "great one" you did very well!
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Thanks guys! I think If I do another I am going to do it 5"x7" so I can lay down large areas of color better.
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I wanted to bring attention to this remarkable sketch card that just hit ebay. It's very nice work but what I like most about it is it's originality. Wacky Packages should mass produce cards like this for it's base set or as a subset. Every Wacky collector should be able to add this one to his collection.
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Spread Bull originally sold for over $1600. Now only a few months later it goes back up on ebay and sells for just $565 and it included a gold border sticker! The auction might have done a little better if it wasn't listed the same week as 8 other Toppsvault pieces and if it had been a scan instead of a murky photo.
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I wanted to bring attention to this remarkable sketch card that just hit ebay. It's very nice work but what I like most about it is it's originality. Wacky Packages should mass produce cards like this for it's base set or as a subset. Every Wacky collector should be able to add this one to his collection.
I noticed this last night, someone bid on it immediately. Awesome piece! A whole set of these would be amazing!
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Thanks guys! I think If I do another I am going to do it 5"x7" so I can lay down large areas of color better.
Anxious to see more, this is great!
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I wanted to bring attention to this remarkable sketch card that just hit ebay. It's very nice work but what I like most about it is it's originality. Wacky Packages should mass produce cards like this for it's base set or as a subset. Every Wacky collector should be able to add this one to his collection.
That's a terrific card. Cool that Brent incorporated and transcended the printed red border.
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That's a terrific card. Cool that Brent incorporated and transcended the printed red border.
I think I'll just stop making sketch cards now.
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What's the story with this one? I haven't seen this sticker yet. Was it published? Topps just listed it on ebay claiming it's from series 7 and they don't say anything about it being a non-published gag.
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What's the story with this one? I haven't seen this sticker yet. Was it published? Topps just listed it on ebay claiming it's from series 7 and they don't say anything about it being a non-published gag.
That's the first I've seen or heard of it. That looks like Neil's signature.
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That's the first I've seen or heard of it. That looks like Neil's signature.
a Lost Wacky... or maybe it'll show up in postcard series 7?
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I like it. They should have saved it for Series 8.
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I like it too. Nicely done piece. I like the bubbles.
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What's the story with this one? I haven't seen this sticker yet. Was it published? Topps just listed it on ebay claiming it's from series 7 and they don't say anything about it being a non-published gag.
This was approved for ANS7. But there was a big issue is with the spelling. "Tenticle" should have read "Tentacle". Wouldn't have been so bad if it had only appeared once, but it shows up in the title and on the cap several times. My fault completely. Mark Stepper did an amazing job on the concept (and actually spelled "Tentacle correctly!). My apologies go out to him for the gaffe! But I'm told Topps still wants to publish it in book format. It's going to be called, "Why Can't Wacky Artists Spel?"
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"Tenticle" should have read "Tentacle"
Whew, and I'm relieved the "n" didn't accidentally morph into an "s"
(http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/5300/myg2001.2fa/0_5133c_4d565c41_L.jpg)
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This was approved for ANS7. But there was a big issue is with the spelling. "Tenticle" should have read "Tentacle". Wouldn't have been so bad if it had only appeared once, but it shows up in the title and on the cap several times. My fault completely. Mark Stepper did an amazing job on the concept (and actually spelled "Tentacle correctly!). My apologies go out to him for the gaffe! But I'm told Topps still wants to publish it in book format. It's going to be called, "Why Can't Wacky Artists Spel?"
I had been wondering why Topps didn't mind the Seagerms title with the incorrect spelling of chloroplast. Guess the one appearance was OK.
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This was approved for ANS7. But there was a big issue is with the spelling. "Tenticle" should have read "Tentacle". Wouldn't have been so bad if it had only appeared once, but it shows up in the title and on the cap several times. My fault completely. Mark Stepper did an amazing job on the concept (and actually spelled "Tentacle correctly!). My apologies go out to him for the gaffe! But I'm told Topps still wants to publish it in book format. It's going to be called, "Why Can't Wacky Artists Spel?"
Hey Neil...no worries...you did a FANTASTIC job with the OCT painting! Come to think of it, there were 5 comments on OCT before yours and not a single mention of the spelling error...hmmm...perhaps Topps could have gotten away with it :-\
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This was approved for ANS7. But there was a big issue is with the spelling. "Tenticle" should have read "Tentacle". Wouldn't have been so bad if it had only appeared once, but it shows up in the title and on the cap several times. My fault completely. Mark Stepper did an amazing job on the concept (and actually spelled "Tentacle correctly!). My apologies go out to him for the gaffe! But I'm told Topps still wants to publish it in book format. It's going to be called, "Why Can't Wacky Artists Spel?"
Hey Neil...no worries...you did a FANTASTIC job with the OCT painting! Come to think of it, there were 5 comments on OCT before yours and not a single mention of the spelling error...hmmm...perhaps Topps could have gotten away with it :-\
I guess we need a book sequel: "Thank Goodness Wacky Fans Can't Spel?"
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On ebay there is some supposed series 7 lost wacky original art. I have never heard of this card. The cards is called "Oct" tell me what you guys know.
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Hey there...I can shed some light on OCT. I wrote the concept and Neil created the painting. It was approved by Topps for ANS7 but due to a spelling issue...Tentacle was spelled Tenticle...the gag was pulled. I'm not sure if Topps has any future plans to publish this concept. If you go to the Wacky Art thread you'll see Neil's explanation on OCT. Hope that helps!
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I had the same thoughts of it being a lost wacky. I posted the question on the main forum. It was nice, but hey another title for the all lost wackys set we talked about! :D
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Sparker is a Lost Wacky now. They won't use it. They pulled it due to excessive violence (they don't like the idea of a pyromaniac and burning down the family house). Here is the pic:
(http://s1.postimage.org/29b1mgtms/sparkerfinalsmall.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/29b1mgtms/)
Dude that is funny...LOVE IT...screw those PC Topps faggits..hopefully they will auction it off - it would have been a bit funnier with people hanging out the window....a bit more Wacky!!
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This would have been an easy Photoshop fix. I wonder why they just didn't do that?
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This would have been an easy Photoshop fix. I wonder why they just didn't do that?
No kidding, what a waste....
[expando]http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/1161685979_yHEnE-XL.jpg[/expando]
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No kidding, what a waste....
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That better be a soft bristled brush!
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8% fewer barnacles on my testicles? Sign me up!
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No kidding, what a waste....
[expando]http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/1161283684_tGLan-XL.jpg[/expando]
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LOL! brilliant.
while you're at it, you could change the name to SAC...
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8% fewer barnacles on my testicles? Sign me up!
8 foot longer reach! The girls come running!
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LOL! brilliant.
while you're at it, you could change the name to SAC...
Thanks...or how about "Ow!" ?
[expando]http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/1161685979_yHEnE-XL.jpg[/expando]
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Guys, too funny! Great photoshopping.
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No kidding, what a waste....
http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/1161685979_yHEnE-XL.jpg
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Good job, send it in!
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No kidding, what a waste....
[expando]http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/1161283684_tGLan-XL.jpg[/expando]
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I don't know whether to laugh or cry.
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It looks like Topps Vault is planning on putting up a complete list of their art and production material auction sales. I wonder if they even have the man power to pull that off. I sure hope they do.
http://www.thetoppsvault.com/priceguide.html
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This would have been an easy Photoshop fix. I wonder why they just didn't do that?
I think we're all aware of Topps propensity for fixing typos!
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now you see it and now you don't
OCT has been pulled from auction
[expando]http://i55.tinypic.com/30uqzhf.jpg[/expando]
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now you see it and now you don't
OCT has been pulled from auction
[expando]http://i55.tinypic.com/30uqzhf.jpg[/expando]
Or is it, Auct has been pulled from Oction? I'm so confused...
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now you see it and now you don't
OCT has been pulled from auction
[expando]http://i55.tinypic.com/30uqzhf.jpg[/expando]
Perhaps they intend to relist it with a more accurate description stating that it was unpublished art from ANS7?
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Perhaps they intend to relist it with a more accurate description stating that it was unpublished art from ANS7?
Maybe there were some typos in the listing.
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Perhaps they intend to relist it with a more accurate description stating that it was unpublished art from ANS7?
Then all they would have to do is modify the listing.
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Maybe they are saving it for Series 8 and posted it erroneously.
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This was approved for ANS7. But there was a big issue is with the spelling. "Tenticle" should have read "Tentacle". Wouldn't have been so bad if it had only appeared once, but it shows up in the title and on the cap several times. My fault completely. Mark Stepper did an amazing job on the concept (and actually spelled "Tentacle correctly!). My apologies go out to him for the gaffe! But I'm told Topps still wants to publish it in book format. It's going to be called, "Why Can't Wacky Artists Spel?"
I spotted a reference to Oct Tentacle Care in the text of the Octivia Wack-o-mercial:
[expando]http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/1020588004_BmZGy-L.jpg[/expando]
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I spotted a reference to Oct Tentacle Care in the text of the Octivia Wack-o-mercial:
[expando]http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/1020588004_BmZGy-L.jpg[/expando]
Wow, great spot!! I read all the backs when the set came out, but without having seen the unpublished art, that was totally lost on me!
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Strenght? Seriously? STRENGHT?
Look, Wacky artists. Switch on your spell checks, read more books, do what you have to do and stop committing poor grammar to the Wacky legacy and your own. I have two misspelled Wacky paintings in my little collection alone. There's been a lot of them since 2004. These paintings are going to be around a lot longer than you. Who wants to be remembered as the artist who couldn't spell?
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I know there has been a Ritz crackers parody done, but I've been wondering if one was done of these? I've loved them since I was a kid.
http://www.nabiscoworld.com/Brands/ProductInformation.aspx?BrandKey=handisnacks&Site=1&Product=4400001252
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I tried to win my first ANS piece of art since series one last night. Didn't seem that pieces were selling over $800 so I bid $1200 as we have a newly created movie room and thought it would be cool to hang this piece in that room.....oh well....
http://www.ebay.com/itm/200651978886?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649
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I tried to win my first ANS piece of art since series one last night. Didn't seem that pieces were selling over $800 so I bid $1200 as we have a newly created movie room and thought it would be cool to hang this piece in that room.....oh well....
http://www.ebay.com/itm/200651978886?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649
Shame you missed out on that one. That would have been cool for a movie room.
I wish I could get this one, but I know it it will be out of my budget for Wacky art.
http://tinyurl.com/MarigoldWhip (http://tinyurl.com/MarigoldWhip)
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Shame you missed out on that one. That would have been cool for a movie room.
I wish I could get this one, but I know it it will be out of my budget for Wacky art.
http://tinyurl.com/MarigoldWhip (http://tinyurl.com/MarigoldWhip)
I dont like the lid on this. The attempt at 3D rendering is overkill as there is too much "hot" on the lid.
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New Wacky Website
www.wackyartist.com
I finally got around to creating a site dedicated to my own personal Wacky art collection. At one time I was going to create a website about all Wacky art and artists. I don't have the time for such a project so I give you this instead. When you see the page of Wacky stickers click on the sticker to see a big scan of the original painting with a few detailed notes above the image.
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New Wacky Website
www.wackyartist.com
I finally got around to creating a site dedicated to my own personal Wacky art collection. At one time I was going to create a website about all Wacky art and artists. I don't have the time for such a project so I give you this instead. When you see the page of Wacky stickers click on the sticker to see a big scan of the original painting with a few detailed notes above the image.
Not too bad, I like it!
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New Wacky Website
www.wackyartist.com
I finally got around to creating a site dedicated to my own personal Wacky art collection. At one time I was going to create a website about all Wacky art and artists. I don't have the time for such a project so I give you this instead. When you see the page of Wacky stickers click on the sticker to see a big scan of the original painting with a few detailed notes above the image.
Looks great and Excellent scans! Thanks!!
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New Wacky Website
www.wackyartist.com
I finally got around to creating a site dedicated to my own personal Wacky art collection. At one time I was going to create a website about all Wacky art and artists. I don't have the time for such a project so I give you this instead. When you see the page of Wacky stickers click on the sticker to see a big scan of the original painting with a few detailed notes above the image.
Mark,
Nice Job!..simple and concise..love the black background...you have a lot of art there..how many of them are paintings you kept from doing those wacky's??
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New Wacky Website
www.wackyartist.com
I finally got around to creating a site dedicated to my own personal Wacky art collection. At one time I was going to create a website about all Wacky art and artists. I don't have the time for such a project so I give you this instead. When you see the page of Wacky stickers click on the sticker to see a big scan of the original painting with a few detailed notes above the image.
Nice collection!
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Mark,
Nice Job!..simple and concise..love the black background...you have a lot of art there..how many of them are paintings you kept from doing those wacky's??
Mine are Scary Garcia, Choppertone and Sweet n Slow. I love black backgrounds on the internet. Especially when photos are featured. Did you notice the wrapper background outside the black panel? You might have to stretch your window wider to see it.
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Nice collection!
Thanks. You may have noticed I had a change of heart about Frankenbury. I liked it more when I saw the sticker. Plus Edmiston's painting is the same size as the cereal box so I thought that was a really cool quality. If I ever find the damn cereal I'll add a picture of it next to the painting.
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Very nice effort, Mark. Thank You. I always appreciate being able to see the art at that magnification.
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Pretty cool! Did you remove all the art from the frames? You obviously must have for such detailed scans but what a pain.
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Pretty cool! Did you remove all the art from the frames? You obviously must have for such detailed scans but what a pain.
Only half the paintings were acquired through Toppsvault and only three of those arrived in frames.
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Thanks. You may have noticed I had a change of heart about Frankenbury. I liked it more when I saw the sticker. Plus Edmiston's painting is the same size as the cereal box so I thought that was a really cool quality. If I ever find the damn cereal I'll add a picture of it next to the painting.
Yeah, I did notice that!
But I didn't realize the painting was the same size as the box. Did you know that before you bought it? Frankenberry seems to be a cereal that's hard to find on the shelf so I was surprised (but happy) they wanted it for ANS8. It wasn't even submitted for ANS8 but for the postcards.
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You could order a 12 pack :o
http://www.amazon.com/Monster-Cereal-Frankenberry-9-6-Ounce-Boxes/dp/B000S85LC6/ref=sr_1_3?s=grocery&ie=UTF8&qid=1316638444&sr=1-3
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New Wacky Website
www.wackyartist.com
I finally got around to creating a site dedicated to my own personal Wacky art collection. At one time I was going to create a website about all Wacky art and artists. I don't have the time for such a project so I give you this instead. When you see the page of Wacky stickers click on the sticker to see a big scan of the original painting with a few detailed notes above the image.
Fan-tastic! You have really picked out some great pieces that are well done.
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Yeah, I did notice that!
But I didn't realize the painting was the same size as the box. Did you know that before you bought it?
I did because I know Edmiston always paints in that scale.
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Hey, that's a cool showcase for Wacky art and I'm flattered that my Chickless painting is among some terrific pieces.
New Wacky Website
www.wackyartist.com
I finally got around to creating a site dedicated to my own personal Wacky art collection. At one time I was going to create a website about all Wacky art and artists. I don't have the time for such a project so I give you this instead. When you see the page of Wacky stickers click on the sticker to see a big scan of the original painting with a few detailed notes above the image.
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I'm flattered that my Chickless painting is among some terrific pieces.
Someone new to this hobby would be scratching their head after reading that :017:
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Awesome collection Mark, and great work on the web site!
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Why are there no worms on the finished sticker. This art has so much more detail, how did it not make it on the sticker???
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2011-Topps-Wacky-Packages-Series-8-Original-Color-Art-GOLDFISH-CRACKERS-/320772926331?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4aaf8e6b7b
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Why are there no worms on the finished sticker. This art has so much more detail, how did it not make it on the sticker???
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2011-Topps-Wacky-Packages-Series-8-Original-Color-Art-GOLDFISH-CRACKERS-/320772926331?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4aaf8e6b7b
I think topps is afraid of a Trivial Lawsuit. like the package says "zero guts"
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I think topps is afraid of a Trivial Lawsuit. like the package says "zero guts"
"zero-guts" is another way of saying "lawyers"!!
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Hi all..
Say, did the Old School Meltathon art scans ever get posted to the forum? I couldn't find them, and am trying to wrap up a Marathon-related post for my website today. Was hoping to include it.
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Hi all..
Say, did the Old School Meltathon art scans ever get posted to the forum? I couldn't find them, and am trying to wrap up a Marathon-related post for my website today. Was hoping to include it.
Is this what your looking for?
(http://s16.postimage.org/5w1gvux35/meltathonrough.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/5w1gvux35/)
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Is this what your looking for?
(http://s16.postimage.org/5w1gvux35/meltathonrough.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/5w1gvux35/)
Nah... I found that. I thought that Dave might have posted scans of the actual paintings at some point, but apparently not. I am pretty sure he did for Old School 1.
It's okay though. I just used a scan of the sticker. :-). Here's the posting if you are curious.
http://www.collectingcandy.com/wordpress/?p=711
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Anyone know who the latest owner was of all of these pieces? Many of them seem to have pass through Mike Crist hands and I see several different ebay ids as shown as winning these over the years on ebay. I received a strange email from someone who claims all of these pieces were donated to charity and they are looking for a full appraisal of the value for tax purposes. They seem to thinnk this collection is worth $150k which of course I told them was insanely high.
1. Soggy Babies
2. Mr. Stubble
3. Clunky
4. Hipton
5. Evil Time
6. Long Line
7. Hate and Kill
8. Sneez-it
9. Brut 88
10. Schtick
11. Fright Guard
12. Koduck
13. Rinkled Wrap
14. Pig Newtons
15. Hungry Jerk
16. Temple God
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It would seem the previous owner of these pieces has died. I doubt any living collector would donate valuable titles like these. I'm surprised Brian Lambert doesn't own Brute 88.
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It would seem the previous owner of these pieces has died. I doubt any living collector would donate valuable titles like these. I'm surprised Brian Lambert doesn't own Brute 88.
I'm almost positive Brian used to own both Brute 88 and Schtick.
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16. Temple God
what is that one?
last time I saw Mike Crist's collection a couple years ago, none of these were in it, so I guess it's been quite awhile since he had them.
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Hey Ern,
I am very familiar with these pieces and used to deal with the previous owner who went by the name of 'Gojeffrey'. I never owned Brute88, but always wanted to... Greg purchased it from Ebay under the stealth name of 'JoeBarber', then sold/traded it to Scott Broberg. When Broberg broke up his collection, Jeff purchased 'Brute88 & Schtick' from Scott. Most of the other pieces came from Toppsvault with some exceptions like the 5th Series 'Hungry Jerk' that came from Greg.
I really wonder what happened to Jeff? The last time I talked with him had to be around 5 years ago (2007ish).
Can you give us any other information about the charity's intentions?
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Hey Ern,
I am very familiar with these pieces and used to deal with the previous owner who went by the name of 'Gojeffrey'. I never owned Brute88, but always wanted to... Greg purchased it from Ebay under the stealth name of 'JoeBarber', then sold/traded it to Scott Broberg. When Broberg broke up his collection, Jeff purchased 'Brute88 & Schtick' from Scott. Most of the other pieces came from Toppsvault with some exceptions like the 5th Series 'Hungry Jerk' that came from Greg.
I really wonder what happened to Jeff? The last time I talked with him had to be around 5 years ago (2007ish).
Can you give us any other information about the charity's intentions?
Are you saying you never owned Schtick? I could have sworn you had it with you at one of the Philly Shows.
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Are you saying you never owned Schtick? I could have sworn you had it with you at one of the Philly Shows.
Yep, positive, never owned it... I believe you may be confusing me with John Mellard who owned Schtick and brought it to Philly one time. He also brought Kleenaxe, Exceedrin, Boozo, Whiskeys, and a few others at different times. Between John and Scott, they passed a ton of pieces through their hands, probably around 40 or so.
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Yep, positive, never owned it... I believe you may be confusing me with John Mellard who owned Schtick and brought it to Philly one time. He also brought Kleenaxe, Exceedrin, Boozo, Whiskeys, and a few others at different times. Between John and Scott, they passed a ton of pieces through their hands, probably around 40 or so.
Wow, now I really regret never making it to earlier shows! How cool it would have been to see original series Wacky paintings in person!
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Wow, now I really regret never making it to earlier shows! How cool it would have been to see original series Wacky paintings in person!
Yeah, there used to be some really cool gatherings at Greg's and other places, and we all used to carry our latest art pieces and a spare to trade or sell... as a matter-of-fact, Scott Broberg always wanted to play a serious round of Wacky Poker where everyone would ante-up a piece of art to get in the round. It came close to happening, but never did. Good thing, because we found out later that Scott was a very good closet poker player, and would have wiped us out!
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16. Temple God
what is that one?
last time I saw Mike Crist's collection a couple years ago, none of these were in it, so I guess it's been quite awhile since he had them.
I could swear Mike had rinkled wrap for sure as well as some others at one time but it appears gojeffrey is the ex-last-owner of these pieces.
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Hey Ern,
I am very familiar with these pieces and used to deal with the previous owner who went by the name of 'Gojeffrey'. I never owned Brute88, but always wanted to... Greg purchased it from Ebay under the stealth name of 'JoeBarber', then sold/traded it to Scott Broberg. When Broberg broke up his collection, Jeff purchased 'Brute88 & Schtick' from Scott. Most of the other pieces came from Toppsvault with some exceptions like the 5th Series 'Hungry Jerk' that came from Greg.
I really wonder what happened to Jeff? The last time I talked with him had to be around 5 years ago (2007ish).
Can you give us any other information about the charity's intentions?
I have no idea of the Charity's intentions, I expect we will find these for sale on Heritage or one of the main auction sites. Shill bidding seems to be commonplace on those auction sites and the fees are outrageous so I tend to avoid them.
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Now accepting offers.
(http://s13.postimage.org/sfgw4is9v/IMG_8191.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/sfgw4is9v/)
(http://s16.postimage.org/r0cnimeup/IMG_8187.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/r0cnimeup/)
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Now accepting offers.
(http://s13.postimage.org/sfgw4is9v/IMG_8191.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/sfgw4is9v/)
(http://s16.postimage.org/r0cnimeup/IMG_8187.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/r0cnimeup/)
Are there any pasted on letters?
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Are there any pasted on letters?
Most of Dave's Wacky art has paste on letters. But not like Edmiston's early pieces. Dave's letters are permanently fused to the art and painted over for a decent blend.
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Most of Dave's Wacky art has paste on letters. But not like Edmiston's early pieces. Dave's letters are permanently fused to the art and painted over for a decent blend.
I'm trying to be a bit more conscious of the pasted letters. I imagine it's tough painting letters but I just don't know how long before they fall off. Maybe not in my lifetime.
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I'm trying to be a bit more conscious of the pasted letters. I imagine it's tough painting letters but I just don't know how long before they fall off. Maybe not in my lifetime.
Wacky art is fragile. Even the paint can flake off if you don't treat it well. Fragility is the nature of art. Most Wacky artists use glue in their art. Some use it for text. Some will mount the entire sheet to a thicker sheet using spray glue. Spray glue can sometimes fail after a very short time. It's a legitimate concern but once you know which artists use weak methods then you just avoid collecting them in the short term. Buy them second hand over time. After a few years if the piece hasn't come apart it should never be a problem. My own paintings were done on masonite boards. Nothing glued or pasted.
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Wacky art is fragile. Even the paint can flake off if you don't treat it well. Fragility is the nature of art. Most Wacky artists use glue in their art. Some use it for text. Some will mount the entire sheet to a thicker sheet using spray glue. Spray glue can sometimes fail after a very short time. It's a legitimate concern but once you know which artists use weak methods then you just avoid collecting them in the short term. Buy them second hand over time. After a few years if the piece hasn't come apart it should never be a problem. My own paintings were done on masonite boards. Nothing glued or pasted.
With some Wacky art having stuck on letters and such, how does Topps create a digital image?
I guess they use a scanner and clean up any shadows? I wonder how they did it back in Norm's day. Maybe a good Zerox copier
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With some Wacky art having stuck on letters and such, how does Topps create a digital image?
I guess they use a scanner and clean up any shadows? I wonder how they did it back in Norm's day. Maybe a good Zerox copier
The old art used letraset. Press on letters. There was nothing to clean up in the image. Some of today's Wacky artists attach cut-outs containing an entire logo or patch of text which can catch a shadow showing a step. Not something you want to see on a painting for which you spent 2K. Or 3K in the case of Grape Newts. But these imperfections are easy to clean up in photoshop as well as all the pathetic misspells.
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The old art used letraset. Press on letters. There was nothing to clean up in the image. Some of today's Wacky artists attach cut-outs containing an entire logo or patch of text which can catch a shadow showing a step. Not something you want to see on a painting for which you spent 2K. Or 3K in the case of Grape Newts. But these imperfections are easy to clean up in photoshop as well as all the pathetic misspells.
Would that be the case for Gloomy Bears?? if you remember?? thx - How does Neil do his art??
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I'm planning to get my few pieces of Wacky art professionally framed. Does anyone have any tips on this process?
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I'm planning to get my few pieces of Wacky art professionally framed. Does anyone have any tips on this process?
Get drunk/stoned and wing it..........................
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I'm planning to get my few pieces of Wacky art professionally framed. Does anyone have any tips on this process?
I've used hobby lobby. They do a great job and make sure you use museum glass.
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I've used hobby lobby. They do a great job and make sure you use museum glass.
Thanks, that is very helpful. I'd like to avoid too many rookie mistakes on this.
By the way, the name Hobby Lobby makes me think of Conjunction Junction.
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A shop that exclusively frames art would be a good option. It costs a little more but for good reason. Chain stores like Aaron Bros. and Hobby Lobby hire kids and morons. They're good for framing family photos and posters. Not art. They can be careless handling and storing your art and they might even use something in the framing that could damage your piece just because the manager didn't teach them right. I frame my own art. It's not hard and you can be sure the art will remain in safe hands. Get some acid free matte board. Get some basic stock frames and chuck the glass. Get some museum glass cut for you at Michael's Art Supply. Get a matte cutting kit and you have everything you need.
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Thanks, that is very helpful. I'd like to avoid too many rookie mistakes on this.
By the way, the name Hobby Lobby makes me think of Conjunction Junction.
Don't you have a Hobby Lobby by you? I thought they were nation wide. They generally have half price frames and they have a ton to pick from.
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A shop that exclusively frames art would be a good option. It costs a little more but for good reason. Chain stores like Aaron Bros. and Hobby Lobby hire kids and morons. They're good for framing family photos and posters. Not art. They can be careless handling and storing your art and they might even use something in the framing that could damage your piece just because the manager didn't teach them right. I frame my own art. It's not hard and you can be sure the art will remain in safe hands. Get some acid free matte board. Get some basic stock frames and chuck the glass. Get some museum glass cut for you at Michael's Art Supply. Get a matte cutting kit and you have everything you need.
My Hobby Lobby will measure the art and then I take it home with me so they are not in possession of it. I've had very good luck but YMMV.
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Don't you have a Hobby Lobby by you? I thought they were nation wide. They generally have half price frames and they have a ton to pick from.
I do. The name just tickles me.
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I do. The name just tickles me.
I've never heard of Hobby Lobby. But, now I have the Conjunction Junction song stuck in my head.....................
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A shop that exclusively frames art would be a good option. It costs a little more but for good reason. Chain stores like Aaron Bros. and Hobby Lobby hire kids and morons. They're good for framing family photos and posters. Not art. They can be careless handling and storing your art and they might even use something in the framing that could damage your piece just because the manager didn't teach them right. I frame my own art. It's not hard and you can be sure the art will remain in safe hands. Get some acid free matte board. Get some basic stock frames and chuck the glass. Get some museum glass cut for you at Michael's Art Supply. Get a matte cutting kit and you have everything you need.
Thanks for the info. I was planning to check out a store like you describe that is very near my house, but will also consider doing it myself on your advice.
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I've never heard of Hobby Lobby. But, now I have the Conjunction Junction song stuck in my head.....................
LOL, wasn't there a Lolly lolly song?
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LOL, wasn't there a Lolly lolly song?
Yep, Adverbs... "Lolly, Lolly, Lolly get your adverbs here..." You are gonna have to brush up on your Grammar and Multiplication Rock with those little ones around. :P
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Thanks for the info. I was planning to check out a store like you describe that is very near my house, but will also consider doing it myself on your advice.
When I think of doing it myself I think of a learning curve and waste. Sometimes it's easier and cheaper to have someone do it for you.
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When I think of doing it myself I think of a learning curve and waste. Sometimes it's easier and cheaper to have someone do it for you.
I want to try one myself, hopefully in the next few months. I think it will be interesting, and maybe cheaper than having Michaels do the work. I figure I won't spring for the museum glass until I have the matte ready, and that way, if I mess up, I'll only be out the cost of the matte.
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Yep, Adverbs... "Lolly, Lolly, Lolly get your adverbs here..." You are gonna have to brush up on your Grammar and Multiplication Rock with those little ones around. :P
Yup, I will be digging out all of those tapes as we have them all. Finding a VHS player could be the challenge...who woulda thunk!
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Now Topps is calling Art as a painting? My search has failed with OLDS4. I guess it was meant to be.
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So, who here has original art?
I was attempting to put money together and buy my first piece around a half a month ago but failed. Eyes bigger than my... wallet? (It was Kreepy Crackers from ANS 6)
I am curious as to how many pieces that the collectors here have in juxtaposition to the monolith of, say, Eric Roberts.
I was also going to bring up the part of undiscovered art. How many OS titles have not been discovered yet? Where do you think they'd be? Hidden in the Topps Vault, never to be found, in some collector's hands?
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I have no original art pieces, but I do have a couple original drawings. The OS ones are way too rich for my wallet, or at least what I'm willing to spend from my wallet.
I have considered buying one 2017 piece that I really like though just to say I have one. It's still pretty high to justify spending that kind of money for something I'll just hang on the wall.
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I have no original art pieces, but I do have a couple original drawings. The OS ones are way too rich for my wallet, or at least what I'm willing to spend from my wallet.
I have considered buying one 2017 piece that I really like though just to say I have one. It's still pretty high to justify spending that kind of money for something I'll just hang on the wall.
I don't have any original 1-16 Wacky art, but I have quite a few from ANS, Old School, and the Postcards. Also a couple from independent sets. What 2017 title is it that tempts you?
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I have won an original piece, Tobbebone, by David Gross.
(https://i.postimg.cc/kDVmVYHm/Toblebone-Painting.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/kDVmVYHm)
I would love some original 1-16 items, but i can not imagine the costs for the final painting(s)
Richard
#StayWacky
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So, who here has original art?
I was attempting to put money together and buy my first piece around a half a month ago but failed. Eyes bigger than my... wallet? (It was Kreepy Crackers from ANS 6)
I am curious as to how many pieces that the collectors here have in juxtaposition to the monolith of, say, Eric Roberts.
I don’t have any of the original art. When some of the pieces starting becoming available in the mid ‘80s to early ‘90s we had two small children and just didn’t have the disposable income. I have a color TOADSIE ROLL SLOP by Jay but I’ve seen a few similar around. I know Forum member Toadally Dude (Scott Broberg) had several for at least awhile. Pretty sure Bandache (Ernie) did as well.
(https://i.postimg.cc/7f7zZCFS/A3-C2635-C-09-F8-43-D1-AB92-773663-A04823.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/7f7zZCFS)
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At one time Greg had about three dozen pieces, including some of my favorites from Series 4 and 5 (Fatina, Nutlee's Quit). I'm not sure how many he hung on to.
From about 2002 on, previously unseen OS pieces would emerge from the Topps Vault to be auctioned on eBay. These included such iconic pieces as Jail-O, Dull and Band-Ache. The last of these was listed with a $1M BIN at one point. (Eric didn't take the bait.) Maybe 100-something remain unaccounted for, hiding in warehouses, swiped by employees, their whereabouts otherwise unknown.
I have very little current information on who owns what, and I will let the owners volunteer that if they wish.
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My kids and I have collected Wacky Packages from the recent series off/on. Recently, we started putting our pennies together and bought some paintings. We’ve bought some from eBay, most from the artists themselves which has been a true joy. Here is our collection of original Wacky paintings:
https://www.comicartfans.com/galleryroom.asp?gsub=207227 (https://www.comicartfans.com/galleryroom.asp?gsub=207227)
While the original paintings (from OS 1-16) are amazing, they are waaaay out of our price range. We’re sticking with collecting art from the new series.
Daniel
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My kids and I have collected Wacky Packages from the recent series off/on. Recently, we started putting our pennies together and bought some paintings. We’ve bought some from eBay, most from the artists themselves which has been a true joy. Here is our collection of original Wacky paintings:
https://www.comicartfans.com/galleryroom.asp?gsub=207227 (https://www.comicartfans.com/galleryroom.asp?gsub=207227)
While the original paintings (from OS 1-16) are amazing, they are waaaay out of our price range. We’re sticking with collecting art from the new series.
Daniel
Oh, so you're the one who got that Coach Motel... 8)
Very nice collection! (Along with everyone else here of course)
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I still have several pieces of original series art, a canned Label, 1980s art(Stinky) and some ANS art. My goal was to get high quality pieces across many eras as opposed to accumulating quantity. I think there are some collections out there still with dozens of pieces but no "A" pieces. There was a survey done long ago asking collectors to rank their top pieces and resulting in a top 77 pieces list. I will have to see if I can dig up the results. Funny but some of the more outspoken folks early on always predicted I was collecting art purely to flip for $ and they all did exactly that while I still have many pieces. I did sell some in order to support buying something else.
I still have one of my most prized possession, Hurts despite getting numerous high offers over the years. This is clearly in the A category and was ranked near the top of the top 77 rankings.
http://www.wackypackage.com/Wacky%20Packs/Art/Hurts.JPG
I also have amassed the largest collection of Frankenstein(Valentine) art from 1966 set. The detail in these pieces blows away most wacky art as these seem to be 100% Saunders and not the work of a collection of artists in which Saunders did touch ups like he did for so many original series wackys. If anyone knows of any of these pieces being for sale, please drop me a line.
Here is an example of one of my favorites:
http://www.wackypackage.com/Wacky%20Packs/Frankensteinart/werewolf-letstrollinthemoonlight.JPG
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If I recall, A lot of the original series art was scanned for the two Abrams books. Not sure if Topps already had those scanned before the auctions, or if Abrams contacted people who own the artwork for permission to scan them. Obviously there is still a lot of missing artwork out there.
I'm not in the same league with many of you, to be able to purchase any original artwork. Poor career choice I guess. For those with original 16 art - how do you protect that old artwork as the rub-down lettering or paint flakes off? Do you spray some sort of clear fixative over the artwork? I assume that's a bad idea since some of those clear sprays may yellow over time.
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I would suggest NOT attempting to paint over flaking issues, like that wise guy with the Promesso art...
Which pieces of OS art do you still own, Ernie? (Disregarding Hurts, albeit it should not be disregarded). And, which can label?
I looked at the Valentine art on your site and that's super cool as well.
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So, who here has original art?
I was attempting to put money together and buy my first piece around a half a month ago but failed. Eyes bigger than my... wallet? (It was Kreepy Crackers from ANS 6)
I am curious as to how many pieces that the collectors here have in juxtaposition to the monolith of, say, Eric Roberts.
I was also going to bring up the part of undiscovered art. How many OS titles have not been discovered yet? Where do you think they'd be? Hidden in the Topps Vault, never to be found, in some collector's hands?
I have a bunch of John Pound, Jay Lynch and Bill Griffith roughs
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So, who here has original art?
I have found that to be well outside my financial scope [and, fortunately, not a great interest of mine]. I do have the original roughs which Jay did for ANS 1 Anvil. Note they don't match the final art, particularly the top one, which I think he did first.
(https://i.postimg.cc/HJPdDptn/IMG-0338.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/HJPdDptn)
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That looks nice. Did you get that professionally framed?
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That looks nice. Did you get that professionally framed?
Yes.
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I have a few original art pieces from modern sets, nothing before 2000. I have a few reproductions/redraws of great artwork that I wasn't able to get the originals to - but most of my Wacky 'art' is in the original little sketches that later became the blueprints for Attacky Packages releases. They fit easily in a binder!
A
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If I recall, A lot of the original series art was scanned for the two Abrams books. Not sure if Topps already had those scanned before the auctions, or if Abrams contacted people who own the artwork for permission to scan them. Obviously there is still a lot of missing artwork out there.
I'm not in the same league with many of you, to be able to purchase any original artwork. Poor career choice I guess. For those with original 16 art - how do you protect that old artwork as the rub-down lettering or paint flakes off? Do you spray some sort of clear fixative over the artwork? I assume that's a bad idea since some of those clear sprays may yellow over time.
Jay Lynch restored a piece or two by painting on the missing letters or fragments. He charged $100 and did excellent work; the result looked just like the original.