Wacky Packages Forum
Wacky Packages Discussion => General Wacky Packages Discussion => Master Lists => Topic started by: Paul_Maul on July 06, 2012, 06:28:36 PM
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I haven't added anything of note to my collection lately, and I'm getting a little bored, so I thought it would be fun to gradually create a scan library of my pack collection. I plan to build it slowly, and maybe throw in a few interesting anecdotes about how some of the packs were acquired, as well as some facts about which packs exist. Anyone who's interested is welcome to comment or ask questions.
So without further ado:
Pack #1: 1967 Die Cuts
(http://s19.postimage.org/i5conbj6r/dief.jpg) (http://s19.postimage.org/5rzugetib/dieb.jpg)
I obtained this pack several years ago from Eric Roberts. He had been opening a lot of packs to beef up his PSA registry set, and decided to take pity on us pack collectors by putting a few on ebay ;D The first pack chronologically and definitely still one of the coolest.
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Pack #2: 1969 5-cent Wacky Ads
(http://s19.postimage.org/pb4fprs9v/adf.jpg)
(http://s19.postimage.org/nkleoaaqr/adb.jpg)
I scored this pack from a long-time advanced non-sports card collector who had purchased 7 or 8 of them at a card store in the 1980's. He finally sold all he had, but then his wife found another one while cleaning one of his closets. He had that one for sale at the last Allentown show.
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Pack #2: 1969 5-cent Wacky Ads
(http://s19.postimage.org/pb4fprs9v/adf.jpg)
(http://s19.postimage.org/nkleoaaqr/adb.jpg)
I scored this pack from a long-time advanced non-sports card collector who had purchased 7 or 8 of them at a card store in the 1980's. He finally sold all he had, but then his wife found another one while cleaning one of his closets. He had that one for sale at the last Allentown show.
So you bought this at the last Allentown show? Very cool! I don't recall seeing this listed in the "scores from the show".
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I haven't seen too many of these myself, so I'm already jazzed to enjoy what you're sharing. Very cool stuff.
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So you bought this at the last Allentown show? Very cool! I don't recall seeing this listed in the "scores from the show".
No, the same collector from whom I got mine two years ago also had one for sale at the last Allentown show. I don't believe it sold there.
Also, I still don't have a 10-cent ad pack, so that one will be skipped. If anyone has a nice one for sale, do let me know!
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Pack #3: 1973 Cloth Series Pack
(http://s19.postimage.org/udd2zzg83/clothf.jpg) (http://s19.postimage.org/k4klu5s6b/clothb.jpg)
I obtained this pack from Phil Carpenter very shortly after I started collecting unopened packs in 2001. I'm glad I did because it sure seems to have become harder to find and more expensive over the last decade.
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No, the same collector from whom I got mine two years ago also had one for sale at the last Allentown show. I don't believe it sold there.
Also, I still don't have a 10-cent ad pack, so that one will be skipped. If anyone has a nice one for sale, do let me know!
What was the asking price for his last 5 cent pack?
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Pack #3: 1973 Cloth Series Pack
(http://s19.postimage.org/udd2zzg83/clothf.jpg) (http://s19.postimage.org/k4klu5s6b/clothb.jpg)
I obtained this pack from Phil Carpenter very shortly after I started collecting unopened packs in 2001. I'm glad I did because it sure seems to have become harder to find and more expensive over the last decade.
I think it is underrated how rare these are. Finding nice wrapper is tough enough!
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What was the asking price for his last 5 cent pack?
Not 100% sure, but I'd guess around $1200, which isn't really that bad a price. I don't think the Philly Show is really the right venue for such a sale, though.
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Pack #4: 1973 1st Series 21-fold pack
(http://s19.postimage.org/3wz5mr277/s121f.jpg) (http://s19.postimage.org/km0linysj/s121b.jpg)
I searched for this pack for over 7 years. I almost won one on ebay, but got out-sniped. I knew Greg had it, so when he decided to sell his pack collection a few years ago, I bought it primarily for this pack. As luck would have it his collection helped me in many other ways too.
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Pack #3: 1973 Cloth Series Pack
(http://s19.postimage.org/udd2zzg83/clothf.jpg) (http://s19.postimage.org/k4klu5s6b/clothb.jpg)
I obtained this pack from Phil Carpenter very shortly after I started collecting unopened packs in 2001. I'm glad I did because it sure seems to have become harder to find and more expensive over the last decade.
Man, does that wrapper bring back memories! Cloth stickers are my favorite! A while back (1987?) Roxanne Toser found a stash of complete boxes and she offered to sell them to me for $50 each. I passed on them thinking that it seemed pricey - one of the many of my collector regrets!
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Man, does that wrapper bring back memories! Cloth stickers are my favorite! A while back (1987?) Roxanne Toser found a stash of complete boxes and she offered to sell them to me for $50 each. I passed on them thinking that it seemed pricey - one of the many of my collector regrets!
$50 per pack, or per box???? The interesting thing about cloth packs is the question of whether they really contain a cloth checklist. We saw that full box that Kirk Daniel had that had 2nd series checklists. That should be a big part of valuation for these, yet there's no way to tell unless the checklist side happens to be showing.
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(http://s19.postimage.org/i5conbj6r/dief.jpg) (http://s19.postimage.org/5rzugetib/dieb.jpg)
The images aren't loading for me. Is it just me?
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$50 per pack, or per box???? The interesting thing about cloth packs is the question of whether they really contain a cloth checklist. We saw that full box that Kirk Daniel had that had 2nd series checklists. That should be a big part of valuation for these, yet there's no way to tell unless the checklist side happens to be showing.
$50 bucks per box!!! Yep, the most interesting thing is that she broke open some of the boxes because she couldn't find many buyers so I bought a complete puzzle from her. I remember her comment about one of the pieces being really tough to find (only about 1 per box). It was a corner piece but I don't recall exactly which one.
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The images aren't loading for me. Is it just me?
I'm hosting them from postimage.org, the service has always seemed fine but today it has been a bit spotty, not sure why.
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The images aren't loading for me. Is it just me?
I'm not seeing the images either on my tablet.
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I'm hosting them from postimage.org, the service has always seemed fine but today it has been a bit spotty, not sure why.
I tried to use the "Add image to post" feature early this evening and it looks like their server or at least their service is down. :c002:
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I'm hosting them from postimage.org, the service has always seemed fine but today it has been a bit spotty, not sure why.
Whatever it was, I can see them now!
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Whatever it was, I can see them now!
Me too , I switched over to my computer. I will go back & check the tablet.
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Pack #5: 1973 1st Series 85-fold pack
(http://s19.postimage.org/d7b9qacwz/s185f.jpg) (http://s19.postimage.org/l1bvbokpv/s185b.jpg)
1st series packs have become really difficult to find. I thought I had one of these for 7 years, but it turned out to be re-sealed. I was able to obtain this really nice legitimate one only through the extreme generosity of a very kind fellow collector.
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Not 100% sure, but I'd guess around $1200, which isn't really that bad a price. I don't think the Philly Show is really the right venue for such a sale, though.
Dave, if this was the pack I pointed out to you at the show (erringly thinking you still needed a 5c), then that's the exact number I recall, also.
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Dave, if this was the pack I pointed out to you at the show (erringly thinking you still needed a 5c), then that's the exact number I recall, also.
Yes, I think with each pack he sold, he kept increasing his asking price for the remaining ones. So I got mine considerably cheaper than this.
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Pack #6: 1973 2nd Series 21-fold pack
(http://s19.postimage.org/5bdrerkdf/2s21f.jpg) (http://s19.postimage.org/73bs6sa1v/2s21b.jpg)
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Man, does that wrapper bring back memories! Cloth stickers are my favorite! A while back (1987?) Roxanne Toser found a stash of complete boxes and she offered to sell them to me for $50 each. I passed on them thinking that it seemed pricey - one of the many of my collector regrets!
I don't think I have ever seen a cloth pack. I haven't been searching specifically for one but I think this is the first one I've seen. Thanks for sharing.
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Pack #7: 1973 2nd Series 21-fold pack with ludlow back showing
(http://s19.postimage.org/o54m8vowz/2sludf.jpg) (http://s19.postimage.org/7in1zsvz7/2sludb.jpg)
This pack originates from a find by Greg Grant around 12 years ago. Pretty cool that not only did a stash of lud packs survive unopened, but the backs were actually showing to prove it! I think there are around 30 of these floating about in the hobby.
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Pack #8: 1973 2nd Series 85-fold pack
(http://s19.postimage.org/s41trpdk3/2s85f.jpg) (http://s19.postimage.org/qqa6weear/2s85b.jpg)
Another pack that I obtained to replace one that turned out to be a re-seal. This one I got in trade from the great George Wright, who had opened 47 of the 48 packs from a full box back in the day, but saved this one to trade to me! Thanks, George.
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Pack #9: 1973 3rd Series red 21-fold pack
(http://s19.postimage.org/r85cc93vn/3sr21f.jpg) (http://s19.postimage.org/6cj2107oj/3sr21b.jpg)
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Pack #10: 1973 3rd Series red 85-fold pack
(http://s19.postimage.org/vwpxl6ig3/3sr85f.jpg) (http://s19.postimage.org/uvpow21gj/3sr85b.jpg)
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Dave, just curious how many packs in total encompass the OS run?
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Dave, just curious how many packs in total encompass the OS run?
It's difficult to answer that question for sure, because it's impossible to be certain whether certain packs (that I've never found) exist or not. There are 61 different series 1-16 packs that I'm sure exist. There are 4 or 5 others that I think don't exist with varying levels of certainty. I plan on posting about all of these issues when I get to those series, if people don't get bored first ;D
By the way, I'm defining a "pack" as a distinct combination of series and wrapper here.
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Pack #11: 1973 3rd Series yellow 21-fold pack
(http://s19.postimage.org/dhenf9j37/3sy21f.jpg) (http://s19.postimage.org/ekyrr83qb/3sy21b.jpg)
This pack is from that cool find from around a year ago that included 43 others just like it. One of my favorite unopened pack finds because of the amazing freshness and perfect condition of the packs. (http://www.wackypackages.org/wackyforum/users/Paul_Maul/uploads/cloud9.gif)
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Pack #11: 1973 3rd Series yellow 21-fold pack
(http://s19.postimage.org/dhenf9j37/3sy21f.jpg) (http://s19.postimage.org/ekyrr83qb/3sy21b.jpg)
This pack is from that cool find from around a year ago that included 43 others just like it. One of my favorite unopened pack finds because of the amazing freshness and perfect condition of the packs. (http://www.wackypackages.org/wackyforum/users/Paul_Maul/uploads/cloud9.gif)
The "vending machine" find...which of course was never a vending machine find, only miscommunication but nonetheless, nice packs were involved.
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The "vending machine" find...which of course was never a vending machine find, only miscommunication but nonetheless, nice packs were involved.
A very accurate and succinct summary!
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Paul Maul,
Man, I am loving this post. I don't collect unopened packs and I don't get to go to shows. This is the first time I have most of these in unopened pack form. This is so cool! It's also a great Wacky history lesson. I hope when you get to the end that you include info on fakes and reseals. I've read over the last few years your discussions on them and would love to see examples.
Question: Why are the different folds called 21 & 85? There are obviously not 21 nor 85 different folds on the wrappers.
Thanks and keep 'em coming!
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Question: Why are the different folds called 21 & 85? There are obviously not 21 nor 85 different folds on the wrappers.
Thanks for the positive feedback! The "21" and "85" come from the Topps wrapper codes. For example, the two different 1st series packs would have wrapper codes:
0-422-21-01-3
0-422-85-01-3
The only difference is in that middle field. All the ones wrapped one way have the 21, all the ones wrapped the other way have the 85!
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Question: Why are the different folds called 21 & 85? There are obviously not 21 nor 85 different folds on the wrappers.
as Dave mentions, it ties in with the middle two digits of the wrapper number indicating two different styles/sizes of wrappers. The 85's are noticeably smaller than the 21's.
The 85's are just large enough to wrap around the cards and then have the top and bottom folded down to seal it up.
The 21's are much larger and have the top and bottom folded down first and then the sides folded on top of them to seal it up.
The 85's can only accommodate a few cards, whereas the 21's are far roomier and very flexible in the number of cards they can hold. The 21 wrappers continued to be used for many years after the 85's disappeared.
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as Dave mentions, it ties in with the middle two digits of the wrapper number indicating two different styles/sizes of wrappers. The 85's are noticeably smaller than the 21's.
The 85's are just large enough to wrap around the cards and then have the top and bottom folded down to seal it up.
The 21's are much larger and have the top and bottom folded down first and then the sides folded on top of them to seal it up.
The 85's can only accommodate a few cards, whereas the 21's are far roomier and very flexible in the number of cards they can hold. The 21 wrappers continued to be used for many years after the 85's disappeared.
Great summary. The 85's were originally used for the baseball card "penny packs" which contained a single card and were sold until 1965. I believe the 15th series wackys may have been the last Topps issue to feature the 85-style wrapper.
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Pack #12: 1973 3rd Series yellow 85-fold pack
(http://s19.postimage.org/fwz20fi03/3sy85f.jpg) (http://s19.postimage.org/ogn1bxfqb/3sy85b.jpg)
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Thanks for the positive feedback! The "21" and "85" come from the Topps wrapper codes. For example, the two different 1st series packs would have wrapper codes:
0-422-21-01-3
0-422-85-01-3
The only difference is in that middle field. All the ones wrapped one way have the 21, all the ones wrapped the other way have the 85!
Thanks for the explanation - I was wondering too!
A
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Great summary. The 85's were originally used for the baseball card "penny packs" which contained a single card and were sold until 1965. I believe the 15th series wackys may have been the last Topps issue to feature the 85-style wrapper.
Did anyone ever confirm that the different folds were a result of machinery with different folding capabilities? I am wondering if the folding machine had the ability to do both styles or if the "85" style may have been from an older machine.
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Paul Maul & Fanatical,
Thanks for the explanations. This is turning out to be a great tutorial.
I'm also wondering about the wrapping machinery. I am fascinated by industrial machines. I love the show "How It's Made". That someone can sit down and come up with a hulking machine that does stuff (folding, printing, turning, spinning, cutting, etc.), completely boggles my mind. You can't go down to "Industrial Machines-R-Us" and buy what you need. Someone has to dream it up and then build it. Totally cool!
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Pack #13: 1973 4th Series 21-fold pack
(http://s19.postimage.org/62ci7y3fn/4s21f.jpg) (http://s19.postimage.org/mrdy3v00z/4s21b.jpg)
This pack, as well as the next one, came from the collection of Andy Herrmann. Andy was a long time collector, who I believe is now semi-retired from collecting. He collected unopened packs for years, and had a real nose for developing trading partners from whom he obtained many nice packs, several of which I was fortunate to obtain a few years ago.
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Did anyone ever confirm that the different folds were a result of machinery with different folding capabilities? I am wondering if the folding machine had the ability to do both styles or if the "85" style may have been from an older machine.
I've failed repeatedly in obtaining any reliable info about this. I personally believe it would have to be two different machines.
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Pack #14: 1973 4th Series 85-fold pack
(http://s19.postimage.org/xs938vs9v/4s85f.jpg) (http://s19.postimage.org/ixkhupioz/4s85b.jpg)
Interesting note: check out the color differences between different early series yellow packs. Some of the 85-fold wrappers feature a much darker blue. It seems too stark a difference to just be an under/over-inking issue. I also never noticed how the "paste anyplace" art is totally different between the 21 and 85 fold versions. Different number of packages, different coloring.
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I've failed repeatedly in obtaining any reliable info about this. I personally believe it would have to be two different machines.
I would agree. The older offline machinery tended to be built with one purpose in mind and didn't have a lot of flexibility as far as options or adjustments go.
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Pack #14: 1973 4th Series 85-fold pack
Interesting note: check out the color differences between different early series yellow packs. Some of the 85-fold wrappers feature a much darker blue. It seems too stark a difference to just be an under/over-inking issue. I also never noticed how the "paste anyplace" art is totally different between the 21 and 85 fold versions. Different number of packages, different coloring.
I wonder if Topps used a couple different printers back then?
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Pack #15: 1973 5th Series yellow 21-fold pack
(http://s19.postimage.org/a8xcna31f/5sy21f.jpg) (http://s19.postimage.org/5bodfwqg3/5sy21b.jpg)
I first purchased one of these at the Spring, 2002 Philly Show. Dan McKee had a partial box of them. I've since upgraded it, but every example of this pack I've seen has a very similar appearance, making me suspect that they all originate from that same box.
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Pack #16: 1973 5th Series yellow 85-fold pack
(http://s19.postimage.org/5cyb9bs9v/5sy85f.jpg) (http://s19.postimage.org/6t9trgv6r/5sy85b.jpg)
Sometime around 2006, Bill Chapin (Bigmuc13) acquired 3 of these packs. He sold one to me. I was thrilled at the time because I had never seen this pack before, and honestly I don't know if I've ever seen it since. Perfect condition too!
Edit: Just looked up the details of this deal, here's what Bill said at the time: "..the guy I got these from said he found them in an old cabinet drawer at his mother-in-law's house." CLASSIC!
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Here's where things get a bit complicated. Late in 1973 (during the 5th series release), Topps created a blue wrapper. The first version created was just like the previous red and yellow wrappers, and came in both 21- and 85- fold versions. Shortly thereafter, they created a new version of each which had a "wacky packages wall poster" ad included. So there are 4 versions of this blue wrapper altogether.
The blue wrappers were used for series 5,6,7 and 8. Unfortunately, though, not every version of the wrapper was used for every series. There's really no way to conclusively prove that a particular wrapper was not used for a particular series. All we can do is make an educated guess based on failure to find the pack and surrounding circumstances.
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Pack #17: 1973 5th Series blue 21-fold pack (no ad)
(http://s19.postimage.org/tbzkcjoir/5sb21f.jpg) (http://s19.postimage.org/ry7xh8p9f/5sb21b.jpg)
This came straight from the bottomless Roxanne Toser vault...
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I am 99% certain that the 21-fold blue wrapper with the "Wall Poster" ad was NOT used for the 5th series. Both myself and Andy Herrmann had one in our collections, but both were determined to be certain fakes. Greg was never able to obtain a scan of this pack (until I unwittingly supplied him with a scan of my fake pack). While it's impossible to be sure, it's believable that the 5th series blue 21-fold output was finished before the wall poster version was produced (although the pack DOES exist in the 85-fold version, as we'll see). I'm satisfied that this pack doesn't exist.
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Pack #18: 1973 5th Series blue 85-fold pack (no ad)
(http://s19.postimage.org/nqd58hntv/5sb85naf.jpg) (http://s19.postimage.org/61pzum1gj/5sb85nab.jpg)
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Pack #19: 1973 5th Series blue 85-fold pack (wall poster ad)
(http://s19.postimage.org/e8hzm6rj7/5sb85wpf.jpg) (http://s19.postimage.org/u80n5qnkz/5sb85wpb.jpg)
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Pack #20: 1974 6th Series 21-fold pack (no ad)
(http://s19.postimage.org/hhk09jqar/6s21naf.jpg) (http://s19.postimage.org/s5nr8e09v/6s21nab.jpg)
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Pack #21: 1974 6th Series 21-fold pack (wall poster ad)
(http://s19.postimage.org/daz5u7qoz/6s21wpf.jpg) (http://s19.postimage.org/e1rvzzt2b/6s21wpb.jpg)
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Pack #20: 1974 6th Series 21-fold pack (no ad)
(http://s19.postimage.org/hhk09jqar/6s21naf.jpg) (http://s19.postimage.org/s5nr8e09v/6s21nab.jpg)
what's your take on these 21-fold no ad wrappers that have the little white triangle in the K?
I consider them a legit variation of this wrapper, and they're somewhat common, so there was probably an entire wrapper production run done with that specific flaw.
I recall seeing it with 6th series packs back in the day, but I wonder if that was a local thing or if there is something more to it. Have you seen any correlation?
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I am 99% certain that the 21-fold blue wrapper with the "Wall Poster" ad was NOT used for the 5th series. Both myself and Andy Herrmann had one in our collections, but both were determined to be certain fakes. Greg was never able to obtain a scan of this pack (until I unwittingly supplied him with a scan of my fake pack). While it's impossible to be sure, it's believable that the 5th series blue 21-fold output was finished before the wall poster version was produced (although the pack DOES exist in the 85-fold version, as we'll see). I'm satisfied that this pack doesn't exist.
Why would someone "fake" this pack and who had enought knowledge to even create such a pack knowing it would be perceived as rare? This seems it would narrow down the possible criminal list quite significantly.
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Why would someone "fake" this pack and who had enough knowledge to even create such a pack knowing it would be perceived as rare? This seems it would narrow down the possible criminal list quite significantly.
I don't think it was necessarily faked to be rare. For whatever reason, someone just had those wrappers and those contents and faked that pack, most likely without thinking too deeply about what wrapper variation it was.
As for why someone would fake a pack that's not that thrilling, I've given up on that conundrum. But I've seen fake examples of some of the most common packs out there: 85-fold 9ths and 10ths, 6ths, 8th orange, even a 7th gumless.
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what's your take on these 21-fold no ad wrappers that have the little white triangle in the K?
I consider them a legit variation of this wrapper, and they're somewhat common, so there was probably an entire wrapper production run done with that specific flaw.
I recall seeing it with 6th series packs back in the day, but I wonder if that was a local thing or if there is something more to it. Have you seen any correlation?
Honestly I never even noticed it before. This particular 6th series pack is actually from a full box I bought from Ernie a decade ago, so I guess all the packs have the triangle. If you notice, this pack (and all the others from this box) also has a printing error on the last "s" in "stickers." I've seen that on some other blue wrappers as well.
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Pack #22: 1974 6th Series 85-fold pack (no ad)
(http://s19.postimage.org/od48snkrn/6s85naf.jpg) (http://s19.postimage.org/g8w4nwycj/6s85nab.jpg)
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These are great Dave, thanks for posting them!
I was wondering, with the 85 folds, do you know for certain what wrapper codes are underneath?
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These are great Dave, thanks for posting them!
I was wondering, with the 85 folds, do you know for certain what wrapper codes are underneath?
While you usually can't see the wrapper codes, you can be sure what they are by the nature of the wrapper. For example, the wrapper codes would be as follows for any blue pack from series 5 through 8:
21-fold no ad: 0-462-21-01-3
21-fold wall poster: 0-462-21-02-3
85-fold no ad: 0-462-85-01-3
85-fold wall poster: 0-462-85-02-3
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Pack #23: 1974 6th Series 85-fold pack (wall poster ad)
(http://s19.postimage.org/48aon6qxv/6s85wpf.jpg) (http://s19.postimage.org/5bzecw0yr/6s85wpb.jpg)
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The 7th series is interesting. It certainly seems to represent the peak of the popularity of the original series. This is borne out by the fact that the packs from this series that are known to exist seem to be very plentiful, which makes me think that the packs that I haven't found are likely not to exist.
I have not encountered a legitimate example of a 7th series pack with the 21-fold no-ad wrapper. I have examined several fake re-seals of this pack, which seems to have been faked in some quantity. It's possible that the no-ad 21-fold wrapper had been exhausted for series 5 and 6, and was not used for the 7th series.
Another pack that seems not to exist for the 7th series is the 85-fold with wall poster ad. This is interesting in that this wrapper was definitely used for the 5th, 6th and 8th series. I have a totally unsubstantiated theory that this wrapper was somehow replaced in the 7th series run by the gumless wrapper. In this case, the fact that it wasn't used for series 7 could explain why it was left over and was used (when no other blue wrapper was) for series 8. Only a wild theory.
While it's far from a certainty, I will believe that neither of these packs exists for the 7th series until I examine legit examples.
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Pack #24: 1974 7th Series 21-fold pack (wall poster ad)
(http://s19.postimage.org/3y7rhl1pf/7s21wpf.jpg) (http://s19.postimage.org/g1d355crn/7s21wpb.jpg)
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I don't think it was necessarily faked to be rare. For whatever reason, someone just had those wrappers and those contents and faked that pack, most likely without thinking too deeply about what wrapper variation it was.
As for why someone would fake a pack that's not that thrilling, I've given up on that conundrum. But I've seen fake examples of some of the most common packs out there: 85-fold 9ths and 10ths, 6ths, 8th orange, even a 7th gumless.
This suggests to me that maybe there ismsome other explanation for those packs, possibly not reseals. Any chance the packing company did seal packs with variant flap overlaps?
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This suggests to me that maybe there ismsome other explanation for those packs, possibly not reseals. Any chance the packing company did seal packs with variant flap overlaps?
If you're talking about the 5ths I mentioned, no, they were 21-fold, and the flaps were in the proper order. The problem was that in both cases there was no sign of the proper roller marks because the back of the pack had been heated (probably with an iron), wiping them out. Both packs were opened, and the contents confirmed they were fake.
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Pack #25: 1974 7th Series 85-fold pack (no ad)
(http://s19.postimage.org/4qafgs5wj/7s85naf.jpg) (http://s19.postimage.org/gtfr4cgyr/7s85nab.jpg)
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If you're talking about the 5ths I mentioned, no, they were 21-fold, and the flaps were in the proper order. The problem was that in both cases there was no sign of the proper roller marks because the back of the pack had been heated (probably with an iron), wiping them out. Both packs were opened, and the contents confirmed they were fake.
It just defies logic to open and reseal 5th series packs since there is nothing of value in the packs. Given that you mention there seems to be a high volume, I wonder if there is some other explanation.
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It just defies logic to open and reseal 5th series packs since there is nothing of value in the packs. Given that you mention there seems to be a high volume, I wonder if there is some other explanation.
Let me be clearer, because I mentioned a few different things and I think they're getting mixed up.
On the 5th series packs I mentioned, there were two packs (one from my collection, one from Andy's) that I examined. Both were from the same source and both were fake.
On the 7th series 21-fold packs, I examined three different packs. Two were from the same source, the 3rd may have traced back to that source also, though I'm not sure. I didn't mean to imply there were lots and lots of them, just that someone had clearly made up more than one.
In neither case were the packs likely to have been "re-sealed" in the sense that they were legit packs that were searched. Rather, I believe they were just made up from wrappers and whatever junk was lying around.
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I haven't added anything of note to my collection lately, and I'm getting a little bored, so I thought it would be fun to gradually create a scan library of my pack collection. I plan to build it slowly, and maybe throw in a few interesting anecdotes about how some of the packs were acquired, as well as some facts about which packs exist. Anyone who's interested is welcome to comment or ask questions.
I'm really enjoying this thread Dave. I appreciate all the energy you're putting into it!
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I'm really enjoying this thread Dave. I appreciate all the energy you're putting into it!
Thanks Elizabeth!
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Pack #26: 1974 7th Series gumless pack
(http://s19.postimage.org/bjasd1wpv/7sgf.jpg) (http://s19.postimage.org/gj88l02cj/7sgb.jpg)
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Pack #27: 1974 8th Series blue 85-fold pack (wall poster ad)
(http://s19.postimage.org/wiqw4jyeb/s8bf.jpg) (http://s19.postimage.org/5yyb2exur/8sbb.jpg)
The 85-fold with wall poster ad is the only blue wrapper that was used for the 8th series. As I stated earlier, it's my speculation that these wrappers were leftover because they weren't used for the 7th series.
8th series blue packs have been fairly scarce over the years. From 2002-2009 I owned a couple of legitimate ones, neither of which was in very nice shape. Then at the Allentown show a couple of years ago, Roxanne Toser showed up with a bag of packs which included 25 of these in perfect condition. Most of those have been absorbed by collectors, so there are several nice ones out there now.
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Pack #27: 1974 8th Series blue 85-fold pack (wall poster ad)
Are vintage Wacky wall posters hard to come by?
Do they command a high price on eBay?
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Are vintage Wacky wall posters hard to come by?
Do they command a high price on eBay?
Yes, they are not very common. I think when they do surface, they usually go for a couple hundred bucks. Then there was the wall poster mailing tube with Dan McKee's name and address on it. That was a pretty cool item.
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Pack #28: 1974 8th Series orange 21-fold pack
(http://s19.postimage.org/bawi8ubc3/8so21f.jpg) (http://s19.postimage.org/4lpystq03/8so21b.jpg)
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Yes, they are not very common. I think when they do surface, they usually go for a couple hundred bucks. Then there was the wall poster mailing tube with Dan McKee's name and address on it. That was a pretty cool item.
I own this, I have all three mail away posters with corresponding tube and address of original owner.
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Yes, they are not very common. I think when they do surface, they usually go for a couple hundred bucks. Then there was the wall poster mailing tube with Dan McKee's name and address on it. That was a pretty cool item.
I don't understand the significance. Who is Dan McKee?
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I don't understand the significance. Who is Dan McKee?
He's a collector. He happened to have kept his original mailing tube. I think it's pictured in the Gallery.
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Pack #29: 1974 8th Series orange 85-fold pack
(http://s19.postimage.org/pk0q4nf8j/8so85f.jpg) (http://s19.postimage.org/rpv0z5ioz/8so85b.jpg)
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I own this, I have all three mail away posters with corresponding tube and address of original owner.
Wicked cool! Could you post pics?
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Wicked cool! Could you post pics?
You should visit the wacky pack museum on my website more often :P
http://www.wackypackage.com/Wacky%20Packs/HTML%20Stuff/Mailawayposters.html
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And now, a break from the original series....
Pack #30: 1974 Yellow Poster Pack (Big Mouth ad)
(http://s19.postimage.org/l88wo0xr7/ypbmf.jpg)
(http://s19.postimage.org/vjl9gopgj/ypbmb.jpg)
During 2002, I started a thread on the Delphi Forum entitled "God doesn't want me to own a yellow poster pack." I had been trying to win one for a year, and I kept getting outbid. I finally did win one on ebay later that year, the one above. I subsequently obtained both of the other ad variations as well (the other two in the last 3 years). And while the average asking price for one on ebay at the moment is close to $600, I obtained all 3 for $125 or less, which is around what they're actually worth.
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Pack #31: 1974 Yellow Poster Pack (Shake It Up ad)
(http://s19.postimage.org/fcjked7tv/ypsuf.jpg)
(http://s19.postimage.org/gg3oqbsgz/ypsub.jpg)
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Pack #32: 1974 Yellow Poster Pack (Stake Your Claim ad)
(http://s19.postimage.org/c3557wjqb/ypscf.jpg)
(http://s19.postimage.org/e8zg2en6r/ypscb.jpg)
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This is fascinating stuff Dave. Most of these I have never seen before and, no doubt, wouldn't have if you hadn't started this thread. Thanks for the history lesson.
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This is fascinating stuff Dave. Most of these I have never seen before and, no doubt, wouldn't have if you hadn't started this thread. Thanks for the history lesson.
Glad you're enjoying, I'm having fun too!
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And now, a break from the original series....
Pack #30: 1974 Yellow Poster Pack (Big Mouth ad)
(http://s19.postimage.org/l88wo0xr7/ypbmf.jpg)
(http://s19.postimage.org/vjl9gopgj/ypbmb.jpg)
During 2002, I started a thread on the Delphi Forum entitled "God doesn't want me to own a yellow poster pack." I had been trying to win one for a year, and I kept getting outbid. I finally did win one on ebay later that year, the one above. I subsequently obtained both of the other ad variations as well (the other two in the last 3 years). And while the average asking price for one on ebay at the moment is close to $600, I obtained all 3 for $125 or less, which is around what they're actually worth.
Do you remember the show where a guy had a full box of these and he killed most of the packs before we got there to stop him! I believe Jeff Weis was able to salvage a few of the packs before he killed them all.
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Do you remember the show where a guy had a full box of these and he killed most of the packs before we got there to stop him! I believe Jeff Weis was able to salvage a few of the packs before he killed them all.
I remember you telling me about that. I definitely wasn't there, otherwise I would have moved heaven and earth to obtain one!
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Pack #33: 1974 Blue Poster Pack (Big Mouth ad)
(http://s19.postimage.org/4dhpc0lb7/bpbmf.jpg)
(http://s19.postimage.org/90nrds8o3/bpbmb.jpg)
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Pack #34: 1974 Blue Poster Pack (Shake It Up ad)
(http://s19.postimage.org/qf7zm25sz/bpshf.jpg)
(http://s19.postimage.org/lult74m3n/bpshb.jpg)
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Pack #35: 1974 Blue Poster Pack (Stake Your Claim ad)
(http://s19.postimage.org/5xn1aetpf/bpstf.jpg)
(http://s19.postimage.org/gyi6fflyb/bpstb.jpg)
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And now a word from our sponsor....
This is the coolest box there is for storing wax packs. Andy Herrmann turned me on to these. It's supposed to be a tackle box used for storing "spinnerbait" (you fisherman probably know what that is, although I don't). But everything about it is perfect for storing wax packs.
(http://s19.postimage.org/sva9ja4tf/Picture_1.png)
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And now a word from our sponsor....
This is the coolest box there is for storing wax packs. Andy Herrmann turned me on to these. It's supposed to be a tackle box used for storing "spinnerbait" (you fisherman probably know what that is, although I don't). But everything about it is perfect for storing wax packs.
(http://s19.postimage.org/sva9ja4tf/Picture_1.png)
Do you have any pictures of one of these being used to hold packs? I'm trying to picture it in my mind....
Great thread, by the way, Dave!
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Do you have any pictures of one of these being used to hold packs? I'm trying to picture it in my mind....
I don't have any pictures. Just look at the box and ignore everything that's in there except the outer box and the four plastic dividers. The packs would stand up in the resulting 5 compartments. Everything else in the picture is spinnerbait.
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Pack #36: 1974 Tattoos Pack
(http://s19.postimage.org/3lp571tr7/tatf.jpg)
(http://s19.postimage.org/ct8nfn2zn/tatb.jpg)
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What is your definition of "unopened pack"? Is it wrapped material that would normally come in a box of a specific count or do Shedds, 1982 cereal and other cello wrapped items count as packs too?
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http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110916934424
I am not much into collecting unopened packs other than I do like one of each wrapper. I was under the impression that unopened pre 1987 OPC stuff was very scarce so I was surprised I got these for so cheap. Is my assessment of their scarcity incorrect?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110916934424
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What is your definition of "unopened pack"? Is it wrapped material that would normally come in a box of a specific count or do Shedds, 1982 cereal and other cello wrapped items count as packs too?
Ern, in my own collecting of unopened packs, I've included anything that has the "feel" of an unopened pack in my own subjective judgment. That includes Shedds pack and 1982 cereal. It also includes tattoos, even though the only thing in the "pack" is the gum. It also includes the next "pack" I'll be posting later today, which is also debatable in terms of "pack" status.
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http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110916934424
I am not much into collecting unopened packs other than I do like one of each wrapper. I was under the impression that unopened pre 1987 OPC stuff was very scarce so I was surprised I got these for so cheap. Is my assessment of their scarcity incorrect?
Great deal. These are generally thought to be worth at least $50-75 apiece, but this kind of bargain can happen when supply and demand are both low. That's definitely the case with the OPC re-issues, and to a slightly lesser extent, the '82 and '85 OPC.
EDIT: Also just noticed OPC doesn't appear in the item title, that's probably a contributing cause as well....
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Pack #37: 1974 Prototype Patch Cello Pack
While it's debatable whether this should be called an unopened pack, I've included it because of the cello-like packaging and cool backing card. While these are described in the Gallery, I never actually saw one until a bunch were offered on ebay a few years ago. Neat item!
(http://s19.postimage.org/bgzolv3dv/patchf.jpg) (http://s19.postimage.org/tl2p6i12b/patchb.jpg)
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Pack #34: 1974 Blue Poster Pack (Shake It Up ad)
(http://s19.postimage.org/lult74m3n/bpshb.jpg)
I am enjoying reading some of the descriptions printed on the packs
That the most far out way ever is the “farthest out way ever" is interesting grammar!
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Pack #34: 1974 Blue Poster Pack (Shake It Up ad)
(http://s19.postimage.org/lult74m3n/bpshb.jpg)
I am enjoying reading some of the descriptions printed on the packs
That the most far out way ever is the “farthest out way ever" is interesting grammar!
Would you prefer "far outest way ever"? I guess proper grammer would suggest "most far put way ever" but where is the fun in that?
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Pack #37: 1974 Prototype Patch Cello Pack
While it's debatable whether this should be called an unopened pack, I've included it because of the cello-like packaging and cool backing card. While these are described in the Gallery, I never actually saw one until a bunch were offered on ebay a few years ago. Neat item!
(http://s19.postimage.org/bgzolv3dv/patchf.jpg) (http://s19.postimage.org/tl2p6i12b/patchb.jpg)
These are awesome, I wanted to snag one but I believe the prices were well over $100 and they didn't seem worth that and I wasn't sure how many that guy was going to flood the market. Someday I am sure I will snag one.
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Great deal. These are generally thought to be worth at least $50-75 apiece, but this kind of bargain can happen when supply and demand are both low. That's definitely the case with the OPC re-issues, and to a slightly lesser extent, the '82 and '85 OPC.
EDIT: Also just noticed OPC doesn't appear in the item title, that's probably a contributing cause as well....
Thanks for the confirmation, I didn't even notice the "OPC" was missing, one look at the picture and I knew they weren't standard reissue packs but I guess I am more a visual guy and others rely more on reading the headlines.
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Topps created a green wrapper, coded 0-407-, for the 9th series. It should have been coded 0-473-, but that's a different story.
This green wrapper was the first one to feature several ad variations: an initial bracelet, a jade necklace, and the usual wacky packages wall poster (which originally had a December, 1974 expiration date).
The three different versions of the wrapper were alternated on the wrapper roll, and as a result, a full 9th series box would contain equal numbers of the three wrapper variations. This is noteworthy because it means that for a given series, the existence of a pack featuring one of these wrappers guarantees that packs exist with all three wrappers.
21-fold 9th series packs are far less common than their 85-fold counterparts, which are among the most common original series packs.
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Pack #38: 1974 9th Series 21-fold pack (initial bracelet ad)
(http://s19.postimage.org/4o3yqveg3/9s21ibf.jpg) (http://s19.postimage.org/8lr8ga19f/9s21ibb.jpg)
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Topps created a green wrapper, coded 0-407-, for the 9th series. It should have been coded 0-473-, but that's a different story.
This green wrapper was the first one to feature several ad variations: an initial bracelet, a jade necklace, and the usual wacky packages wall poster (which originally had a December, 1974 expiration date).
The three different versions of the wrapper were alternated on the wrapper roll, and as a result, a full 9th series box would contain equal numbers of the three wrapper variations. This is noteworthy because it means that for a given series, the existence of a pack featuring one of these wrappers guarantees that packs exist with all three wrappers.
21-fold 9th series packs are far less common than their 85-fold counterparts, which are among the most common original series packs.
Full boxes are not necessarily going to have all three wrappers....many full boxes were pieced together. Reissue boxes and series 16 boxes always had exact equal numbers of wrapper variations for boxes I came across that I knew weren't pieced together by dealers trying to "make" a box.
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Full boxes are not necessarily going to have all three wrappers....many full boxes were pieced together. Reissue boxes and series 16 boxes always had exact equal numbers of wrapper variations for boxes I came across that I knew weren't pieced together by dealers trying to "make" a box.
I was talking about legitimate full boxes, not ones that are pieced together. Also, series 3 and 4 re-issue boxes (where there are only two ad variations) have 2/3 of the packs being one variation, and 1/3 of the packs the other, I believe. In fact, I think the wall poster ad may be over-represented on the wrapper rolls even for the earlier re-issue series. But definitely not for the original series.
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Pack #39: 1974 9th Series 21-fold pack (jade necklace ad)
(http://s19.postimage.org/77zlkz203/9s21jnf.jpg) (http://s19.postimage.org/qecso5ihv/9s21jnb.jpg)
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I was talking about legitimate full boxes, not ones that are pieced together. Also, series 3 and 4 re-issue boxes (where there are only two ad variations) have 2/3 of the packs being one variation, and 1/3 of the packs the other, I believe. In fact, I think the wall poster ad may be over-represented on the wrapper rolls even for the earlier re-issue series. But definitely not for the original series.
Good point about the reissue, I was referring to series 1 since I owned a full unopened case of those once so I could be 100% certain the contents were not pieced together. Interestingly, there was an uneven mix of yellow and black price tags. It was weird that hardly anyone seemed to even notice there were different colored price tags on the box until I called it out in reviewing my case.
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Good point about the reissue, I was referring to series 1 since I owned a full unopened case of those once so I could be 100% certain the contents were not pieced together. Interestingly, there was an uneven mix of yellow and black price tags. It was weird that hardly anyone seemed to even notice there were different colored price tags on the box until I called it out in reviewing my case.
Cool, I always assumed the two different 1st re-ish boxes were somehow from different runs. Never knew they could be in the same case. I still learn something new every day!
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21-fold 9th series packs are far less common than their 85-fold counterparts, which are among the most common original series packs.
Dave, why do you think this is the case? My recollection is that, by the 9th series, Wackys were still selling quite well, though definitely on the downslope. Is it because 9th boxes were put away more for some reason, people just saved the packs, it was an overproduced series or some other reason? It seems illogical to me that there'd be a lot of unopened 9th material, given their popularity still. Maybe there's some secret Wacky Pack fact that I'm unaware of with 9th series?
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Dave, why do you think this is the case? My recollection is that, by the 9th series, Wackys were still selling quite well, though definitely on the downslope. Is it because 9th boxes were put away more for some reason, people just saved the packs, it was an overproduced series or some other reason? It seems illogical to me that there'd be a lot of unopened 9th material, given their popularity still. Maybe there's some secret Wacky Pack fact that I'm unaware of with 9th series?
I think the main reason 85-fold 9th and 10th series packs are extremely common is that there was a huge hoard of unopened boxes that came into the possession of those guys who always set up at the Allentown show. They've been selling 85-fold 9th and 10th series packs (and unopened full boxes - Ernie bought a bunch of boxes from them years ago, as did I) since before I entered the hobby. I think they've finally run out of 9ths, though they showed up at the last show with more 10ths.
I often wonder whether the seeming rarity of certain packs relative to others has any real production based cause, or if it's just more a fluke of what finds happened to have turned up.
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Pack #40: 1974 9th Series 21-fold pack (Wall Poster 1974 ad)
(http://s19.postimage.org/4ggbud3hf/9s21wpf.jpg) (http://s19.postimage.org/4uhntynkz/9s21wpb.jpg)
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I think the main reason 85-fold 9th and 10th series packs are extremely common is that there was a huge hoard of unopened boxes that came into the possession of those guys who always set up at the Allentown show. They've been selling 85-fold 9th and 10th series packs (and unopened full boxes - Ernie bought a bunch of boxes from them years ago, as did I) since before I entered the hobby. I think they've finally run out of 9ths, though they showed up at the last show with more 10ths.
I often wonder whether the seeming rarity of certain packs relative to others has any real production based cause, or if it's just more a fluke of what finds happened to have turned up.
My 10th series packs are from the Pupsi run. I can see a Pupsi through the wrapper of one of them.
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I think the main reason 85-fold 9th and 10th series packs are extremely common is that there was a huge hoard of unopened boxes that came into the possession of those guys who always set up at the Allentown show. They've been selling 85-fold 9th and 10th series packs (and unopened full boxes - Ernie bought a bunch of boxes from them years ago, as did I) since before I entered the hobby. I think they've finally run out of 9ths, though they showed up at the last show with more 10ths.
I often wonder whether the seeming rarity of certain packs relative to others has any real production based cause, or if it's just more a fluke of what finds happened to have turned up.
I think you are right to question the randomness of packs showing up as it relates to the production. In my multi-year upgrade quest of the original 16 series, I'm finding it most difficult to get really nice high quality 9th series stickers. Shortly behind that is the 14th series. 9th & 14th series packs are relatively common & not very expensive. I find that also very strange and feel that it's more an anomoly that 9th & 14th packs have been preserved by chance & have been discovered, rather than an overproduction (of stickers) from those series. If overproduction were the case, finding the stickers would be a lot easier IMO.
As a side note, I've noticed the 9th series pricing, especially in nice condition, has been slowly climbing over the past few years.
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If overproduction were the case, finding the stickers would be a lot easier IMO.
I think it depends on how you look at "overproduction" and its results: My definition of it is that Topps made too much material that did not sell to final consumers, hence left unopened all these years. I think you're looking at it as lots of it produced that also got to the hands of consumers, which would logically mean more material available in the market (making finding the stickers easier).
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I think it depends on how you look at "overproduction" and its results: My definition of it is that Topps made too much material that did not sell to final consumers, hence left unopened all these years. I think you're looking at it as lots of it produced that also got to the hands of consumers, which would logically mean more material available in the market (making finding the stickers easier).
It doesn't seem to me that they had a problem selling the product back in the 1st to 16th day. My interpretation of your definition of over production seems to imply (or apply to) the later series i.e. reissues, album stickers or 1991 sets or possibly the ANS runs. When I referred to overproduction, I meant that there was more than enough supply to meet the purchasing needs of all of us kids back in the 70s, for us to stick all the stickers we wanted back then, to "preserve" the stickers we wanted in our collections back then & still have ample supply floating around 35+ years later for us to recollect, in whatever condition we wanted, without paying a fortune or engaging in a multi-year search. My observation was that the 9th & 14th series are considerably more difficult to locate in nice condition, or in large numbers relative to many other original series sets (except for the 1st & 16th).
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Pack #41: 1974 9th Series 85-fold pack (initial bracelet ad)
(http://s19.postimage.org/egb8a9eqr/9s85ibf.jpg) (http://s19.postimage.org/yc77psvs3/9s85ibb.jpg)
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Pack #42: 1974 9th Series 85-fold pack (jade necklace ad)
(http://s19.postimage.org/yq8jpefvn/9s85jnf.jpg) (http://s19.postimage.org/wabbpan6r/9s85jnb.jpg)
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Pack #43: 1974 9th Series 85-fold pack (Wall Poster 1974 ad)
(http://s19.postimage.org/hfmqb4dlv/9s85wpf.jpg) (http://s19.postimage.org/rqz33s5b7/9s85wpb.jpg)
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A note on the expiration date for the wall poster ad on the green 0-407- wrappers:
At some point, the expiration date on the green 0-407- coded wrapper with wall poster ad was changed from 12/31/1974 to 7/30/1975. I think it's clear that the 1975 dated wrapper was never used for the 9th series. The 10th series wall poster ad was still exclusively dated 1974, and the 1974 version was still in use for the 11th series. As I'll explain later, I believe the 11th series (which was on sale in December, 1974) was the series during which the change from the 1974 dated wrapper to the 1975 dated wrapper occurred, and I believe the 11th series to be the only series for which both versions of the wrapper (details to be discussed later) were used.
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Series 10 featured a new purple wrapper coded 0-477-. The wrapper featured the same three ad variations that were used for series 9. Once again, 85-fold 10th series packs are MUCH MUCH more common than the 21-fold ones, which seem to rarely turn up anymore. The funny part is there seems to be no real difference in market value between the 21's and 85's.
The 21-fold wrapper comes in two variations as the result of an error in the printing process. The "Quacker Oats" can should have been colored blue, but it was mistakenly colored red. This error was corrected by overstriking the red area with the correct blue color. The result was a rather sickly brownish quacker can. Not sure why they didn't just leave the can red, since the corrected version looks far from correct.
I haven't been able to hunt down the "ID Bracelet" version of the 21-fold 10th series pack with blue quacker can. In fact, of the 61 different series 1-16 packs I'm certain exist, the only two I'm missing are both 21-fold 10ths.
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Pack #44: 1974 10th Series 21-fold pack (blue quacker can, jade necklace ad)
(http://s19.postimage.org/hwqrzwbtv/10s21bljnf.jpg) (http://s19.postimage.org/rvbqmdl9f/10s21bljnb.jpg)
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Pack #45: 1974 10th Series 21-fold pack (blue quacker can, wall poster ad)
(http://s19.postimage.org/3k1xfbh7n/10s21blwpf.jpg) (http://s19.postimage.org/gphflfb37/10s21blwpb.jpg)
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Pack #46: 1974 10th Series 21-fold pack (brown quacker can, initial bracelet ad)
(http://s19.postimage.org/mj14wuig3/10s21bribf.jpg) (http://s19.postimage.org/jdgj6mztv/10s21bribb.jpg)
For years I couldn't find a single 10th series unopened pack with the brown quacker can. Then one day in December, 2010 a group of these packs came up on ebay. They were described as low grade and falling open, but that same description was used on every lot sold by that seller. I took a chance and made a deal for all 13 packs the seller had. Wasn't too hard to make a deal as I was likely the only person excited about these. When I got them, the bad news was that for some reason out of 13 packs only 2 of the 3 ad variations were present. The good news was, while condition varied, there were several of each variation that were pretty nice. Both shown here are from that group.
(I still don't have the "jade necklace" variation of the 10th 21-fold with brown quacker can.)
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Pack #47: 1974 10th Series 21-fold pack (brown quacker can, wall poster ad)
(http://s19.postimage.org/x8etp3u8z/10s21brwpf.jpg) (http://s19.postimage.org/np54vn6qr/10s21brwpb.jpg)
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Pack #48: 1974 10th Series 85-fold pack (initial bracelet ad)
(http://s19.postimage.org/bojouwzc3/10s85ibf.jpg) (http://s19.postimage.org/wzlucx6ub/10s85ibb.jpg)
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Pack #45: 1974 10th Series 21-fold pack (blue quacker can, wall poster ad)
(http://s19.postimage.org/3k1xfbh7n/10s21blwpf.jpg) (http://s19.postimage.org/gphflfb37/10s21blwpb.jpg)
"I still don't have the "jade necklace" variation of the 10th 21-fold with brown quacker can.)"
Does this exist for sure? It is missing from my wrapper collection too.
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"I still don't have the "jade necklace" variation of the 10th 21-fold with brown quacker can.)"
Does this exist for sure? It is missing from my wrapper collection too.
It does exist, I do have the wrapper. Like the 9ths, these three wrappers all come on the same roll I believe, so all three packs should exist if any of them do.
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Pack #49: 1974 10th Series 85-fold pack (jade necklace ad)
(http://s19.postimage.org/fnlhrhdcz/10s85jnf.jpg) (http://s19.postimage.org/karjt90pv/10s85jnb.jpg)
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Pack #50: 1974 10th Series 85-fold pack (wall poster ad)
(http://s19.postimage.org/7knbg5srn/10s85wpf.jpg) (http://s19.postimage.org/hvzo8tkgz/10s85wpb.jpg)
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The 11th series presents a challenge to collectors of unopened material. Not only does the 11th feature the most different unopened packs of any of the original series, but they're all much harder to find than surrounding series. The reasons for this aren't really clear, though it may have something to do with the fact that the series was not originally planned as a wacky series.
A yellow wrapper (coded 0-478-) was created specifically for the 11th series. The fact that it features different advertisements than surrounding series is probably also attributable to it being planned as a non-wacky series.
11th series yellow packs have always been pretty hard to find. I got one in decent shape from Roxanne Toser in the early 2000's. 11th series packs are involved in one of the coolest pack finds ever. Sometime in the 2000's, the proprietor of an online tea company (who is also a sports collector) came up with a large group of 11th series packs, both yellow and green. Greg Grant purchased them, and the majority of the group (which totaled over 100 packs) was sold to a single collector. Those packs were later sold (again, as a group) to another collector.
So the majority of these packs were not available to the public, though some were sold to others directly by the tea-man. In the last year, the collector in question sold off all of the yellow packs from the find, many of which have appeared on ebay at different times. So the 11th yellow packs are now slightly more available than the green ones as a result.
All of the yellow packs shown below are from that same find. They're all in great condition, as were all of the packs from that group.
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Pack #51: 1974 11th Series yellow pack ("bazooka has it all" ad)
(http://s19.postimage.org/xvibsdgir/11sybhaf.jpg) (http://s19.postimage.org/s8lyuwe03/11sybhab.jpg)
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Pack #52: 1974 11th Series yellow pack ("be prepared for gum" ad)
(http://s19.postimage.org/d15zajm5f/11sybpgf.jpg) (http://s19.postimage.org/mzqxx0vkz/11sybpgb.jpg)
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Pack #53: 1974 11th Series yellow pack ("lotsa friends" ad)
(http://s19.postimage.org/q7vfa2hur/11sylff.jpg) (http://s19.postimage.org/gbyxo61gj/11sylfb.jpg)
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The green 0-407- coded wrappers that were first used for the 9th series were also used for the 11th series. At first, the same exact wrappers from the 9th series were used. Sometime during the 11th series release, the expiration date on the wall poster ad was changed from 12/31/74 to 7/30/75. The 21-fold wall poster wrapper with 1975 expiration date was definitely used for the 11th series, and that pack is pictured below.
Interestingly, the 1975 dated wall poster wrappers always occur on their own rolls. So full boxes of green packs contain either a mix of the 3 ad variations (id bracelet, jade necklace, '74 wall poster) or contain ALL '75 wall posters.
I have yet to determine whether the 85-fold wall poster wrapper with 1975 expiration date was used for series 11. It's definitely possible that it was. It's been difficult to be sure, because the 11th series 85-fold pack with '75 wall poster ad is probably the most frequently faked pack out there. I've examined (at last count) 5 copies of this pack that were all clear fakes, and have yet to find a legitimate one. The reason it's faked so often is that it's a very common wrapper (used for the 12th series) and a pretty valuable pack.
In fact, all green 11th series packs are very commonly found as fakes since the 85-fold 9th series wrappers are also very common. At one point, I had 7 of these packs and exactly one of them was legit. As I'll describe below, all of the green 11th series packs I have came from the same two sources. All 11th greens I've examined not from these sources have been fake.
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Pack #54: 1974 11th Series green 21-fold pack (initial bracelet ad)
(http://s19.postimage.org/iubwgqpcz/11s21ibf.jpg) (http://s19.postimage.org/l067b8stf/11s21ibb.jpg)
All of the 21-fold green 11ths that appear here are from the same origin. It was a group of packs that Kirk Daniel owned, and which was later purchased by Greg Schwartz. Greg is a fantastic guy who has helped me a lot with my collection, and allowed me to choose several packs from this group. Thanks also go to Bill Farinella for trading me the above pack (after he got it from Greg S.) It was a huge favor because I doubt I would have ever found it elsewhere.
In general, these packs are not super high grade, but they are the only legitimate examples of these packs I've ever seen.
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Pack #55: 1974 11th Series green 21-fold pack (jade necklace ad)
(http://s19.postimage.org/w11cg9l2b/11s21jnf.jpg) (http://s19.postimage.org/d9zf63qhv/11s21jnb.jpg)
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Pack #56: 1974 11th Series green 21-fold pack (Wall Poster 1974 ad)
(http://s19.postimage.org/bjge4m8yr/11s21wp74f.jpg) (http://s19.postimage.org/riz1o650j/11s21wp74b.jpg)
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Pack #57: 1974 11th Series green 21-fold pack (Wall Poster 1975 ad)
(http://s19.postimage.org/psg0monhf/11s21wp75f.jpg) (http://s19.postimage.org/a88mw5dcz/11s21wp75b.jpg)
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Pack #58: 1974 11th Series green 85-fold pack (initial bracelet ad)
(http://s19.postimage.org/60dunebxf/11s85ibf.jpg) (http://s19.postimage.org/6ejs0qler/11s85ibb.jpg)
I mentioned that the group of 85-fold green 11th series packs from the "tea man" were still locked up in a collection. A couple of years ago, I contacted him just to make sure he didn't have any more left. He didn't respond for two months, so I assumed it was a dead end. Then, amazingly, he contacted me out of the blue and said his wife had found a few more while cleaning out a closet. All three of these are from that same "tea man" find. They're in untouched shape, but unfortunately have a few production related issues.
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Pack #59: 1974 11th Series green 85-fold pack (jade necklace ad)
(http://s19.postimage.org/9mo9ds7oj/11s85jnf.jpg) (http://s19.postimage.org/7w58caq5f/11s85jnb.jpg)
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Pack #60: 1974 11th Series green 85-fold pack (Wall Poster 1974 ad)
(http://s19.postimage.org/9cgquft2b/11s85wpf.jpg) (http://s19.postimage.org/w2fvnfc9v/11s85wpb.jpg)
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The 12th Series was the last one to use the green 0-407- coded wrapper. Based on evidence from a sheet auctioned by the Topps Vault, it seems that the 12th Series was released well into January, 1975. We know that the 1975 dated Wall Poster ad appears on a roll by itself, without other ad variations. It also seems reasonable that the 1974 dated wall poster ad would not be used into 1975, meaning that none of the other ad variations could be used either (being on the same roll). As a result, it's believed (and supported by the packs that have turned up) that there are only two 12th series packs, the 21- and 85-fold versions with the 1975 Wall Poster ad. Both are very common.
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Pack #61: 1975 12th Series 21-fold pack (Wall Poster 1975 ad)
(http://s19.postimage.org/gfkhfoq1v/12s21f.jpg) (http://s19.postimage.org/5h97xi1gj/12s21b.jpg)
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Pack #62: 1975 12th Series 85-fold pack (Wall Poster 1975 ad)
(http://s19.postimage.org/g5cywcbfn/12s85f.jpg) (http://s19.postimage.org/5jt3kc543/12s85b.jpg)
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Pack #55: 1974 11th Series green 21-fold pack (jade necklace ad)
Do you know if any of these trinkets were exclusively offered for Wacky Packages? Maybe they were offered on Bazooka wrappers or other Topps products. Or comic books.
I’d kind of like to see one of these jade Buddha’s. Or the elephant, horse, or dog. I assume they were carved by adolescents in Chinese sweat shops. I wonder if they ever hit eBay
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My guess is the wall poster is the only give-away that was specific to the wacky pack wrappers. The trinkets (based on requiring bazooka comics to be sent) seem to be ads originally from bazooka wrappers.
I've never seen one of the trinkets either, but it's likely they were cheapo junk that might not even be identifiable as these giveaway items even if they did turn up.
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(http://s19.postimage.org/etkmx2an7/Picture_1.png)
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it's likely they were cheapo junk
I think you overestimate their value. :P
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Intermission: My Series 1-16 Unopened Pack Availability Guide
Disclaimer: these are just my personal impressions based on looking for packs for the last decade
VERY HARD TO FIND:
1st Series, 5th Series yellow (85-fold only), 11th Series green
FAIRLY HARD TO FIND:
2nd Series, 3rd Series red, 5th Series yellow (21-fold), 8th Series blue, 10th Series (21-fold only),
11th Series yellow, 16th Series
AVAILABLE BUT NOT COMMON:
3rd Series yellow, 4th Series, 5th Series blue, 9th Series (21-fold only), 13th Series
FAIRLY COMMON:
6th Series (except 21-fold no ad), 15th Series
VERY COMMON:
6th Series (21-fold no ad), all 7th Series, 8th Series orange, 9th series (85-fold), 10th Series (85-fold), 12th Series, 14th Series
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Pack #63: 1975 13th Series 21-fold pack
(http://s19.postimage.org/5hbm3ef6r/13s21f.jpg) (http://s19.postimage.org/mvvubocbn/13s21b.jpg)
13th series packs are (for unknown reasons) less common than surrounding series 12,14 and 15.
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Awesome, simply incredible collection & great education on the wrappers. Nice Job, so with saying that how about a picture of each wrapper together. It would look cool. Thanks Paul
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Awesome, simply incredible collection & great education on the wrappers. Nice Job, so with saying that how about a picture of each wrapper together. It would look cool. Thanks Paul
Thanks for the positive feedback! Greg Grant's page has pictures of all of the wrappers, including a shot of a 1-16 run of packs together. I don't really have any pics of that nature.
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Pack #64: 1975 13th Series 85-fold pack
(http://s19.postimage.org/69ea2ljdv/13s85f.jpg) (http://s19.postimage.org/d14p5g8df/13s85b.jpg)
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Pack #65: 1975 14th Series 21-fold pack
(http://s19.postimage.org/hbjd11dgj/14s21f.jpg)
(http://s19.postimage.org/mo87f61cz/14s21b.jpg)
One of the most common packs out there!
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Pack #66: 1975 14th Series 85-fold pack
(http://s19.postimage.org/o4obb1tnn/14s85f.jpg) (http://s19.postimage.org/srudcth0j/14s85b.jpg)
Strange thing #1: From series 13 to series 14, the expiration date for the wall poster ad went from December, 1975 to September 1975.
Strange thing #2: There is no 9/31/75, so technically this wall poster offer is still active!
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Pack #67: 1975 15th Series 21-fold pack
(http://s19.postimage.org/r1bcbbzhf/15s21f.jpg) (http://s19.postimage.org/mgp5wefs3/15s21b.jpg)
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Pack #68: 1975 15th Series 85-fold pack
(http://s19.postimage.org/8bjcul6qr/15s85f.jpg) (http://s19.postimage.org/dbgt2jcdf/15s85b.jpg)
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Pack #69: 1977 16th Series pack ("bazooka has it all" ad)
(http://s19.postimage.org/ab4jzqqg3/16sbazf.jpg) (http://s19.postimage.org/mr19thjs3/16sbazb.jpg)
I had another amazing piece of luck at the Allentown Show a couple of years ago. When the doors opened, I went right to the table of the guys who always have all the 9th and 10th series unopened packs. The only wacky unopened packs other than those I'd ever seen them with were some blue poster packs and the common yellow fun packs. Imagine my elation as I looked down and saw 3 16th Series packs, one of each ad variation. Asking price: $20 apiece. Oh, and one had Scoot no copyright showing :o
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Pack #70: 1977 16th Series pack ("be prepared for gum" ad)
(http://s19.postimage.org/ld9my6kir/16sbpgf.jpg) (http://s19.postimage.org/4qs2p3rkz/16sbpgb.jpg)
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Pack #71: 1977 16th Series pack ("lotsa friends" ad)
(http://s19.postimage.org/aszpflg0z/16slff.jpg) (http://s19.postimage.org/563ci4dib/16slfb.jpg)
Note the "wardrobe malfunction" on this one. Great way to be sure a pack is legit, no one ever fakes 'em this way!
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Pack #71: 1977 16th Series pack ("lotsa friends" ad)
Note the "wardrobe malfunction" on this one. Great way to be sure a pack is legit, no one ever fakes 'em this way!
I assume you are referring to the botched fold?
Just wondering, does PSA discriminate between packs were the pack image is centered versus not centered?
How about other machine / production issues, like the bunged up fold on this one?
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I assume you are referring to the botched fold?
Just wondering, does PSA discriminate between packs were the pack image is centered versus not centered?
How about other machine / production issues, like the bunged up fold on this one?
I was specifically referring to the fact that the botched fold leaves a portion of the "Horsey" sticker exposed to leering wacky pack voyeurs.
PSA/GAI do downgrade for botched folds, sometimes more than I think they should. They may also take image centering into
account, not completely sure on that count.
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Here are PSA's pack grading standards:
http://www.psacard.com/articles/article_view.chtml?artid=4770&universeid=314
"In addition, while the centering of a pack wrapper is important, the pack grading approach does not view wrap centering in terms of percentages. The key factor, regardless of the technical measurement of the centering, is whether or not the centering (or lack thereof) of the wrap affects the overall eye-appeal."
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Pack #72: 1977 Shedd's Peanut Butter Cello Pack
(http://s19.postimage.org/tahjmhvtv/sheddsf.jpg)
(http://s19.postimage.org/fi34qv52b/sheddsb.jpg)
For a long time this was the absolute rarest unopened pack, with only one (Ajerx) known to exist. Then around 7 years ago Greg Grant was offered a large lot (25-30?) of Shedd's stickers in unopened pack form. He described the find as follows:
"I got them a couple years ago from some guy who had them who contacted me because of my website. They then went from me to Matt (Stock), from Matt to Kirk (Daniel), from Kirk back to Matt and from Matt back to me...
What's amazing about the collection is that...this guy ate some 200 lbs of peanut butter obtaining those wackys. And he did not have any association with the factory or anything like that, he told me he really got all of them retail with peanut butter."
I have my doubts about the veracity of this story, since the pack shown above (which came from this find) does not appear even slightly peanut buttery (as the original "Ajerx" pack shown in the Gallery certainly did)...but either way, it's definitely among the coolest finds in wacky pack history!
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Pack #72: 1977 Shedd's Peanut Butter Cello Pack
(http://s19.postimage.org/tahjmhvtv/sheddsf.jpg)
(http://s19.postimage.org/fi34qv52b/sheddsb.jpg)
For a long time this was the absolute rarest unopened pack, with only one (Ajerx) known to exist. Then around 7 years ago Greg Grant was offered a large lot (25-30?) of Shedd's stickers in unopened pack form. He described the find as follows:
"I got them a couple years ago from some guy who had them who contacted me because of my website. They then went from me to Matt (Stock), from Matt to Kirk (Daniel), from Kirk back to Matt and from Matt back to me...
What's amazing about the collection is that...this guy ate some 200 lbs of peanut butter obtaining those wackys. And he did not have any association with the factory or anything like that, he told me he really got all of them retail with peanut butter."
I have my doubts about the veracity of this story, since the pack shown above (which came from this find) does not appear even slightly peanut buttery (as the original "Ajerx" pack shown in the Gallery certainly did)...but either way, it's definitely among the coolest finds in wacky pack history!
I've had an unopened pack from long before gregs "find" so I suspect there were a few of these packs around before greg's find. Mine has two stickers in it, I have heard there were some with only one. Who had declared only one pack was known to exist? Do you have both versions of the pack if in fact they both exist? Mine is in rough shape hence I am able to see it has two stickers in it.
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I've had an unopened pack from long before gregs "find" so I suspect there were a few of these packs around before greg's find. Mine has two stickers in it, I have heard there were some with only one. Who had declared only one pack was known to exist? Do you have both versions of the pack if in fact they both exist? Mine is in rough shape hence I am able to see it has two stickers in it.
Sorry, I was just going by memory, I thought at the time of the Gallery the Ajerx pack was the only one known. Now that you mention it, I recall your pack as being related to the "Gloom Yield" story, if ya know what I mean. Yes, I do recall there being packs with either one or two stickers. Most seem to have one, as this one does.
I don't have both versions of the pack, I'm content with just one.
By the way, since your pack was separate from Greg's group, was yours clean? I'm starting to wonder whether the cello
packs might have been packaged so that they were not in contact with the peanut butter, and the Ajerx pack just "fell in" or something.
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Pack #73: 1979 Test Pack
(http://s19.postimage.cc/fjd2ka6w3/79tf.jpg) (http://s19.postimage.cc/5nbzkn143/79tb.jpg)
I've never really had a feel for how rare this pack is. On the one hand, they seem to turn up now and then on ebay. On the other hand, with several collectors going for the singles to complete sets, several seem to get opened as well. So it's anyone's guess how many are still unopened.
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Pack #73: 1979 Test Pack
(http://s19.postimage.org/fjd2ka6w3/79tf.jpg) (http://s19.postimage.org/5nbzkn143/79tb.jpg)
I've never really had a feel for how rare this pack is. On the one hand, they seem to turn up now and then on ebay. On the other hand, with several collectors going for the singles to complete sets, several seem to get opened as well. So it's anyone's guess how many are still unopened.
I believe one just sold on ebay in the last couple of months. $200 maybe?
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Sorry, I was just going by memory, I thought at the time of the Gallery the Ajerx pack was the only one known. Now that you mention it, I recall your pack as being related to the "Gloom Yield" story, if ya know what I mean. Yes, I do recall there being packs with either one or two stickers. Most seem to have one, as this one does.
I don't have both versions of the pack, I'm content with just one.
By the way, since your pack was separate from Greg's group, was yours clean? I'm starting to wonder whether the cello
packs might have been packaged so that they were not in contact with the peanut butter, and the Ajerx pack just "fell in" or something.
LOL, "Gloom yield", you nailed that one! The cello on mine is so rough it would be hard for me to say if it was clean, I don't detect peanut butter per se but it definitely seems "beige" in coloring.
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By the way, since your pack was separate from Greg's group, was yours clean? I'm starting to wonder whether the cello
packs might have been packaged so that they were not in contact with the peanut butter, and the Ajerx pack just "fell in" or something.
my recollection is that the cello pack rested on top of the peanut butter, with only light contact, perhaps just a corner or edge of the cello slightly in the PB.
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my recollection is that the cello pack rested on top of the peanut butter, with only light contact, perhaps just a corner or edge of the cello slightly in the PB.
It's very cool that you actually remember it. I suppose it's possible that the packs could survive peanut butter-free since the flat surface of the peanut butter wouldn't promote much contact.
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Pack #74: 1979 1st Re-Issue Pack (pop bottle ad)
(http://s19.postimage.org/xz31y689v/r1spbf.jpg) (http://s19.postimage.org/6d0adhowz/r1spbb.jpg)
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Pack #75: 1979 1st Re-Issue Pack (ring pop ad)
(http://s19.postimage.org/7tge9dh7n/r1srpf.jpg) (http://s19.postimage.org/50n6pcgv7/r1srpb.jpg)
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Pack #76: 1979 1st Re-Issue Pack (wall poster ad)
(http://s19.postimage.org/rduxc5hsz/r1swpf.jpg) (http://s19.postimage.org/yv44rd7c3/r1swpb.jpg)
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Pack #77: 1979 2nd Re-Issue Pack (pop bottle ad)
(http://s19.postimage.org/426tn23j7/r2spbf.jpg) (http://s19.postimage.org/p0czl53dv/r2spbb.jpg)
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Pack #78: 1979 2nd Re-Issue Pack (ring pop ad)
(http://s19.postimage.org/inxubb0bn/r2srpf.jpg) (http://s19.postimage.org/ajpq6kdwj/r2srpb.jpg)
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Pack #79: 1979 2nd Re-Issue Pack (wall poster ad)
(http://s19.postimage.org/5z3jrmu77/r2swpf.jpg) (http://s19.postimage.org/6d4vr8ear/r2swpb.jpg)
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Pack #80: 1980 3rd Re-Issue Pack (ring pop ad)
(http://s19.postimage.org/wzlxty7vn/r3srpf.jpg) (http://s19.postimage.org/p857ve3qb/r3srpb.jpg)
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Pack #81: 1980 3rd Re-Issue Pack (wall poster ad)
(http://s19.postimage.org/vzvmy8spv/r3swpf.jpg) (http://s19.postimage.org/6v4mktt9f/r3swpb.jpg)
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Pack #82: 1980 4th Re-Issue Pack (ring pop ad)
(http://s19.postimage.org/gtpl7b2oz/r4srpf.jpg) (http://s19.postimage.org/43lcu7uqr/r4srpb.jpg)
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Pack #83: 1980 4th Re-Issue Pack (wall poster ad)
(http://s19.postimage.org/io2fp1ppf/r4swpf.jpg) (http://s19.postimage.org/jev5uts2r/r4swpb.jpg)
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Pack #84: 1982 Album Series Pack
(http://s19.postimage.org/xdrv7ahcz/82_Tf.jpg) (http://s19.postimage.org/sgeam6fdv/82_Tb.jpg)
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Pack #85: 1982 Cereal Premium Pack
(http://s19.postimage.org/rfe1x1yeb/82_Cf.jpg) (http://s19.postimage.org/913it2m3n/82_Cb.jpg)
This is another pack for which I'm not clear on the rarity. Not that many seem to come up on ebay, yet those that do don't seem to fetch huge money.
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Pack #86: 1985 Series Pack
(http://s19.postimage.org/gv44egtwj/85_Tf.jpg) (http://s19.postimage.org/ibfmwlwtf/85_Tb.jpg)
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Pack #87: 1986 Album Series Pack
(http://s19.postimage.org/coj9z4uar/86f.jpg)
(http://s19.postimage.org/ph7dz25wj/86b.jpg)
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Pack #88: 1991 Series Pack (no price)
(http://s19.postimage.org/7fo919bvn/91_Tupf.jpg) (http://s19.postimage.org/4a88osin7/91_Tupb.jpg)
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Pack #89: 1991 Series Pack (25 cent price)
(http://s19.postimage.org/3yqsc1277/91_Tpf.jpg) (http://s19.postimage.org/xf6eeg8kj/91_Tpb.jpg)
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Pack #90: 1973 OPC 2nd Series Pack
(http://s19.postimage.org/qrhp8ae03/s2_Of.jpg) (http://s19.postimage.org/4gtu8bgpv/s2_Ob.jpg)
It's OPC time. Original 1st and 3rd Series OPC unopened packs are by definition the rarest of all, because (to my knowledge) none of either series are known to exist. The 2nd series was in the same category until several packs turned up in the mid-2000s. Most of these were in the possession of Kirk Daniel (and possibly Mike Crist). Kirk still offers them for sale now and then (for a rather hefty price). Quite a toughie!
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Pack #91: 1973 OPC 4th Series Red Pack
(http://s19.postimage.org/oph7u1g0z/s4_Orf.jpg) (http://s19.postimage.org/8sifxbnmr/s4_Orb.jpg)
The 4th Series OPC pack comes with either a red or blue wrapper. It's unknown whether the blue wrapper was used for any of the earlier series, but the fact that the red one was still used for the 4th series suggests all the earlier series were probably red only.
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Pack #92: 1973 OPC 4th Series Blue Pack
(http://s19.postimage.org/96jrwx7qb/s4_Obf.jpg) (http://s19.postimage.org/73dy2zxb7/s4_Obb.jpg)
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Pack #93: 1979 OPC 4 Stickers Pack (ring pop ad)
(http://s19.postimage.org/noq5wedsz/O4srpf.jpg) (http://s19.postimage.org/e5gh2xqar/O4srpb.jpg)
The 1979-80 OPC re-issue packs are not very common either. The 4 sticker packs are the least common, and they get a bit more common with each new release.
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Pack #94: 1979 OPC 4 Stickers Pack (super bazooka ad)
(http://s19.postimage.org/an92kaesj/O4ssbf.jpg) (http://s19.postimage.org/ouyr8xrhf/O4ssbb.jpg)
The other interesting thing about the 1979-80 OPC re-issues is that one ad variation is twice as common as the other. I'm not remembering which is the rarer of the two right now, but will research it.
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Pack #95: 1979 OPC 6 Stickers Pack (ring pop ad)
(http://s19.postimage.org/chlx211sz/O6srpf.jpg) (http://s19.postimage.org/huarg5ppf/O6srpb.jpg)
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Pack #96: 1979 OPC 6 Stickers Pack (super bazooka ad)
(http://s19.postimage.org/jndo4haw3/O6ssbf.jpg) (http://s19.postimage.org/ed8pd6qn7/O6ssbb.jpg)
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Pack #96: 1979 OPC 6 Stickers Pack (super bazooka ad)
(http://s19.postimage.org/jndo4haw3/O6ssbf.jpg) (http://s19.postimage.org/ed8pd6qn7/O6ssbb.jpg)
Dave,
What's a 4th Series Re-Issue Sticker Sheet on NRMT condition worth?? and a 2nd Series Re-issue BOX in Mint Condtion?
thx
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I'm not really an expert on current values, no clue on the sheet. On the 2nd re-issue box, my perception is that the value of that has come down a little in the last few years. There was a time when these were going for $500-600 in really nice shape, I don't think that's the case anymore. (I'm assuming you meant a full box.)
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Pack #97: 1980 OPC 8 Stickers Pack (ring pop ad)
(http://s19.postimage.org/pqv8oe15v/O8srpf.jpg) (http://s19.postimage.org/s9gxp2mw3/O8srpb.jpg)
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I'm not really an expert on current values, no clue on the sheet. On the 2nd re-issue box, my perception is that the value of that has come down a little in the last few years. There was a time when these were going for $500-600 in really nice shape, I don't think that's the case anymore. (I'm assuming you meant a full box.)
Yes...maybe Ernie knows...??
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Pack #98: 1980 OPC 8 Stickers Pack (super bazooka ad)
(http://s19.postimage.org/lx1sf8jtv/O8ssbf.jpg) (http://s19.postimage.org/o2w39qnab/O8ssbb.jpg)
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Have to say I for one am truly enjoying looking at all these packs! Very nice! :great:
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Have to say I for one am truly enjoying looking at all these packs! Very nice! :great:
Thanks! Your appreciation energizes me to forge on!
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Thanks! Your appreciation energizes me to forge on!
Yes, Dave... I'm really enjoying this thread too. Especially all the background info. You should really make an unopened pack handbook (even PDF document) with all this helpful & interesting info. It's a great reference.
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Yes, Dave... I'm really enjoying this thread too. Especially all the background info. You should really make an unopened pack handbook (even PDF document) with all this helpful & interesting info. It's a great reference.
He deserves the title, Wacky Pack Man!!
The word “grape” translates to “raisin” in French?
(http://s19.postimage.org/o2w39qnab/O8ssbb.jpg)
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He deserves the title, Wacky Pack Man!!
The word “grape” translates to “raisin” in French?
apparently so. from Wiki:
"... in French, raisin means "grape," while a dried grape is referred to as a raisin sec, or "dry grape." ..."
those crazy French. They have a different word for everything.
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Yes, Dave... I'm really enjoying this thread too. Especially all the background info. You should really make an unopened pack handbook (even PDF document) with all this helpful & interesting info. It's a great reference.
Thanks Bill. I do think all the stories about "finds" are particularly cool, since I know I enjoy reading such stories from others.
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Pack #90: 1973 OPC 2nd Series Pack
(http://s19.postimage.org/qrhp8ae03/s2_Of.jpg) (http://s19.postimage.org/4gtu8bgpv/s2_Ob.jpg)
It's OPC time. Original 1st and 3rd Series OPC unopened packs are by definition the rarest of all, because (to my knowledge) none of either series are known to exist. The 2nd series was in the same category until several packs turned up in the mid-2000s. Most of these were in the possession of Kirk Daniel (and possibly Mike Crist). Kirk still offers them for sale now and then (for a rather hefty price). Quite a toughie!
Dave,
Have you posted that series 2 OPC red pack with the "printed in usa" variation that has recently surfaced?
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Dave,
Have you posted that series 2 OPC red pack with the "printed in usa" variation that has recently surfaced?
Rob, Is there an unopened pack with that wrapper?
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apparently so. from Wiki:
"... in French, raisin means "grape," while a dried grape is referred to as a raisin sec, or "dry grape." ..."
those crazy French. They have a different word for everything.
Do we really need a Wiki to understand this.....HaHa :P
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Thanks Bill. I do think all the stories about "finds" are particularly cool, since I know I enjoy reading such stories from others.
Yes, you could do a PDF and sell them for $50 on eBay with a picture of a guy holding up a steak in the supermarket. It will be big..HaHa :great:
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Yes, you could do a PDF and sell them for $50 on eBay with a picture of a guy holding up a steak in the supermarket. It will be big..HaHa :great:
those idiots got back to me when i emailed them - saying all their info is from wikipedia that you get for free...but.. they're charging $50 for it in book form...unbelievable :sad: :sad:
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Dave,
Have you posted that series 2 OPC red pack with the "printed in usa" variation that has recently surfaced?
Rob,
Only the wrapper with that variation has surfaced. In fact, as far as I know, no 1st series OPC unopened packs (presumably the series for which that wrapper was used) have ever surfaced. Same goes for 3rd series.
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Anyone know why Topps ever did the 85-fold version of packs? The 21-folds seem so much nicer looking to me and seem more natural.
Just curious...
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Anyone know why Topps ever did the 85-fold version of packs? The 21-folds seem so much nicer looking to me and seem more natural.
Just curious...
I'm almost certain the 85-fold packs stem from the 1-cent baseball/football card packs that contained only one card, which were
sold from the 1950's through 1965. For some reason, this must be a more efficient way to wrap a single or thin group of cards,
whereas the 21-fold works better for a thicker stack of cards.
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Speaking of "TEST PACKS" (OK... no one was speaking of them, but this seems like the best thread for this question)... what ever happened with those weird test-packs that were found in a single unopened box and distributed around? Did anyone ever figure out what the heck those were or if there were more out there? I remember there just being one full box worth of packs in existence.
- Were they given an official name?
- Is there an official count of how many packs are in circulation?
- Were a lot of them opened?
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Speaking of "TEST PACKS" (OK... no one was speaking of them, but this seems like the best thread for this question)... what ever happened with those weird test-packs that were found in a single unopened box and distributed around? Did anyone ever figure out what the heck those were or if there were more out there? I remember there just being one full box worth of packs in existence.
- Were they given an official name?
- Is there an official count of how many packs are in circulation?
- Were a lot of them opened?
Scott, I suspect you're referring to the Irish Test packs from '81 that were found in late summer of '04? I don't remember all of the details, but my understanding is that 2 boxes were uncovered, most packs were opened and only 1-2 full sets exist. They are standard 3.5" x 2.5" cards. Here's the front and back (of a folded wrapper):
(http://s17.postimage.org/oy4ruldl7/Irish_test_pack_front.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/oy4ruldl7/)(http://s18.postimage.org/fpfx6mpfp/Irish_test_pack_back.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/fpfx6mpfp/)
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Here's Greg's writeup on the set:
http://www.wackypackages.org/stickers/irish_test/
I'll be continuing this thread when I have time to get back to scanning, and the UK stuff (as well as the remaining OPC stuff) is mostly what remains. The Irish Test Pack is coming!
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In a forum post from 2009, Greg wrote:
"We originally got 59 packs, Matt opened half of them and got a full set plus some extras. The remaining packs were mostly sold to pack collectors and Kirk got about 20 of them. Eventually Rob got Kirk's packs and opened them and tracked down a few singles and managed to build a 2nd set. Then the remaining 37 packs showed up from what was originally two full boxes of 48. Those 96 packs are all that ever turned up. From the new ones that turned up another set was built and a fourth missing only Kill. If you think about it there were a total of 192 stickers so conceivably five sets plus a few extras, but to date only three Kills have been pulled. As a result there are very very few unopened packs left, probably less than ten. I do still have one, not sure where most of the others are."
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One thing that's funny is that Marty Krim, who is a very advanced general non-sport card and pack collector, probably owns all of the rarest wacky unopened packs, and yet he doesn't care about wackys at all, from the conversations I've had with him.
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In a forum post from 2009, Greg wrote:
"We originally got 59 packs, Matt opened half of them and got a full set plus some extras. The remaining packs were mostly sold to pack collectors and Kirk got about 20 of them. Eventually Rob got Kirk's packs and opened them and tracked down a few singles and managed to build a 2nd set. Then the remaining 37 packs showed up from what was originally two full boxes of 48. Those 96 packs are all that ever turned up. From the new ones that turned up another set was built and a fourth missing only Kill. If you think about it there were a total of 192 stickers so conceivably five sets plus a few extras, but to date only three Kills have been pulled. As a result there are very very few unopened packs left, probably less than ten. I do still have one, not sure where most of the others are."
This is SO cool! The packs were found right before I decided to disappear from Wackys, so I never got to hear about any of this. When I first saw the packs, they were thought to just contain "re-issue" stickers like the 1979's. So, I don't think anyone had opened more than one or two at that time. I can imaging how cool it would have been to see the first full-size version of Kill or PigLips! Now that old 4-title proof sheet that Phil found years ago makes more sense. Very cool stuff. Guess I should have stayed in it a little longer. I even got rid of my UK box proof, all my old UK and Irish packs, and complete pack-fresh sets of UK 1st and 2nd series w/puzzles. What was I thinking? I hope I kept my test pack, though. I always wanted to PSA grade it.
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In a forum post from 2009, Greg wrote:
"We originally got 59 packs, Matt opened half of them and got a full set plus some extras. The remaining packs were mostly sold to pack collectors and Kirk got about 20 of them. Eventually Rob got Kirk's packs and opened them and tracked down a few singles and managed to build a 2nd set. Then the remaining 37 packs showed up from what was originally two full boxes of 48. Those 96 packs are all that ever turned up. From the new ones that turned up another set was built and a fourth missing only Kill. If you think about it there were a total of 192 stickers so conceivably five sets plus a few extras, but to date only three Kills have been pulled. As a result there are very very few unopened packs left, probably less than ten. I do still have one, not sure where most of the others are."
I was very fortunate that the remaining packs showed up from that Roger guy because I never would have been able to finish my set off, which would have been very frustrating after what I had invested into it. I will add that the 2nd batch of packs that came from Roger seemed to have more "press start-up" issues like being off-center, and they seemed to have moisture issues because many were curled and the wrappers had that spotting. I think he mentioned they came from a basement.
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I think most of the 1st batch had the spotting on the wrappers also. Hard to understand why Roger's batch would have been different since they presumably were all from the same source, right?
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Has anyone tried to research these more, or go after other sources to uncover more? I almost wish I hadn't heard that there were enough out there to make sets. Now I want one. 5 days ago, I couldn't care less about Wackys. But getting back on the forum, I'm getting that itch again. It's like coffee. Just the smell pulls you in.
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I can imaging how cool it would have been to see the first full-size version of Kill or PigLips!
IIRC - toppsvault had been selling off 'proof' versions of all the full sized cards from the set a year or so prior to the pack find, including the pulled titles. no one ever figured that these proofs were for an actual test set though, so those packs were a huge surprise.
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I think most of the 1st batch had the spotting on the wrappers also. Hard to understand why Roger's batch would have been different since they presumably were all from the same source, right?
From my understanding they were not from the same source. This guy Roger knew an old lady who had a bunch of Topps boxes of misc. series that were from her husband when he distributed for Topps. He passed away, and this lady made a deal with Roger to sell all of it off. I am pretty sure this old lady had no connection with the batch Greg and Matt came across. I remember telling Greg about it and he knew nothing about the 2nd source.
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In re-reading the original Irish Test thread, I just came up with the following quote from Scott B.:
"Paul (Hart?) never mentioned them either (the Irish test packs). He DID, however, mention his friend having a display box for those UK release red packs (which contained regular 1979 reissue stickers). He could never get the guy to look for the box or get it from him. I asked until I was blue in the mouth & finally gave up."
Wouldn't it be funny if the box that just turned up is the same one Scott was referring to 8 years ago?
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In re-reading the original Irish Test thread, I just came up with the following quote from Scott B.:
"Paul (Hart?) never mentioned them either (the Irish test packs). He DID, however, mention his friend having a display box for those UK release red packs (which contained regular 1979 reissue stickers). He could never get the guy to look for the box or get it from him. I asked until I was blue in the mouth & finally gave up."
Wouldn't it be funny if the box that just turned up is the same one Scott was referring to 8 years ago?
Anyone knowing my ancient history with Paul will probably have a laugh at this. My "blue in the mouth" frustration in this particular post (...I can't believe these are still out there somewhere...) was actually directed at this mystery guy who wouldn't go look for the box, not at Paul. Being 10,000 miles away from England made it very difficult for me to research the UK & Irish Wackys, and in all my searching (here AND there, while on vacation), I only ever came up with 2 good connections. Paul and another card dealer that I can't remember his name now. Nigel or something.
Paul was really cool, and I was able to get some great UK and Irish items and info through him. But I once burned that bridge (with some "foot in the mouth" frustration) by being cocky and complaining about some deal or something in an email to a friend (which accidentally got sent to him, too). A huge lesson learned, not only about how email worked (this WAS the late 90s afterall), but also about how not to be an ass. We patched things up (I think), but I'm sure that temporary lapse in judgement on my part caused some damage. Hope not, though.
(some old Wacky history isn't as fun to dig up as others...)
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Anyone knowing my ancient history with Paul will probably have a laugh at this. My "blue in the mouth" frustration in this particular post (...I can't believe these are still out there somewhere...) was actually directed at this mystery guy who wouldn't go look for the box, not at Paul. Being 10,000 miles away from England made it very difficult for me to research the UK & Irish Wackys, and in all my searching (here AND there, while on vacation), I only ever came up with 2 good connections. Paul and another card dealer that I can't remember his name now. Nigel or something.
Paul was really cool, and I was able to get some great UK and Irish items and info through him. But I once burned that bridge (with some "foot in the mouth" frustration) by being cocky and complaining about some deal or something in an email to a friend (which accidentally got sent to him, too). A huge lesson learned, not only about how email worked (this WAS the late 90s afterall), but also about how not to be an ass. We patched things up (I think), but I'm sure that temporary lapse in judgement on my part caused some damage. Hope not, though.
(some old Wacky history isn't as fun to dig up as others...)
Don't feel bad, didn't greg once call phil to bitch about Eric and he inadvertantly called Eric or something to that effect?
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Don't feel bad, didn't greg once call phil to bitch about Eric and he inadvertantly called Eric or something to that effect?
For some reason, I want to say it was actually a conference call & one of them didn't know that.
Yah, the OLD days (pre-2000) were pure fun. It was after the prices got too high (and egos got higher) that things took a bad turn. I've noticed, though, reading the posts here and looking at the trading pages, etc., that it seems to have gotten back to the way it WAS, maybe thanks to so many NEW collectors entering the fray who just want to finish their sets and don't care about all the tensions from 10 years ago. That's cool!
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One thing that's funny is that Marty Krim, who is a very advanced general non-sport card and pack collector, probably owns all of the rarest wacky unopened packs, and yet he doesn't care about wackys at all, from the conversations I've had with him.
Dave I have talked to marty in the past before as well. Man that was many, many years ago. I had forgotten all about him until reading this post. I bought some series 16 packs from him probably in 2004 or 2005. He did have a lot of stuff. I remember him describing packs to me that he had, he wasn't even sure what they were! Crazy to have all that good stuff and not even know what you have.
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For some reason, I want to say it was actually a conference call & one of them didn't know that.
Yah, the OLD days (pre-2000) were pure fun. It was after the prices got too high (and egos got higher) that things took a bad turn. I've noticed, though, reading the posts here and looking at the trading pages, etc., that it seems to have gotten back to the way it WAS, maybe thanks to so many NEW collectors entering the fray who just want to finish their sets and don't care about all the tensions from 10 years ago. That's cool!
Very true. I was never as big a "player" as you and Ernie but all the tensions and alliances are one of the reasons I stepped out of the hobby for years. This Forum was a very appreciated fresh restart.
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Pack #99: 1982 OPC Album Series Pack
(http://s19.postimage.org/hebqmaogz/82_OPCf.jpg) (http://s19.postimage.org/5qhorqzc3/82_OPCb.jpg)
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Pack #100: 1985 OPC Pack
(http://s19.postimage.org/893dsfl2b/85_OPCf.jpg) (http://s19.postimage.org/dls86k8yr/85_OPCb.jpg)
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Pack #101: 1987 OPC Re-Issue Pack (ring pop ad)
(http://s19.postimage.org/42ijd3lgj/87_OPCf.jpg) (http://s19.postimage.org/qfq9zwmeb/87_OPCb.jpg)
Note: The 1987 OPC Re-Issue Packs had only one ad variation, the "ring pop" ad. The 1988 and 1989 series packs had two variations apiece.
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It turns out that I WAS smart and DID keep my Irish TEST PACK. I checked my Wacky boxes last night & I actually kept more stuff than I thought, especially ANS stuff. Since this is a 'pack' thread I'll only talk about packs. The only ones I had were a few 8th oranges and the Irish TEST. I really want to get it PSA graded, since there are only 10 left unopened (according to a previous post). Do you guys think it would be worth doing? Are they getting better about grading Wacky unopened packs? I remember way back when, their PSA grades seemed to be really inconsistent on packs. And what worries me on this one is that it does have a little bit of that dark spotting, but WAY less than most of the packs from those boxes. I wonder if they'll take that in account, and the fact that those spots come from the glue used for the sticker, not any imperfections or damage. They probably don't care, though, right? Mint is Mint whether Mint is impossible or not?
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It turns out that I WAS smart and DID keep my Irish TEST PACK. I checked my Wacky boxes last night & I actually kept more stuff than I thought, especially ANS stuff. Since this is a 'pack' thread I'll only talk about packs. The only ones I had were a few 8th oranges and the Irish TEST. I really want to get it PSA graded, since there are only 10 left unopened (according to a previous post). Do you guys think it would be worth doing? Are they getting better about grading Wacky unopened packs? I remember way back when, their PSA grades seemed to be really inconsistent on packs. And what worries me on this one is that it does have a little bit of that dark spotting, but WAY less than most of the packs from those boxes. I wonder if they'll take that in account, and the fact that those spots come from the glue used for the sticker, not any imperfections or damage. They probably don't care, though, right? Mint is Mint whether Mint is impossible or not?
I think the spotting on your pack is key because most of those packs had fairly significant spotting going on. I opened a bunch of them so I know how they were. I was able to get a very nice keeper wrapper with minimal staining, but it's just a wrapper, not an unopened pack.
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I think the spotting on your pack is key because most of those packs had fairly significant spotting going on. I opened a bunch of them so I know how they were. I was able to get a very nice keeper wrapper with minimal staining, but it's just a wrapper, not an unopened pack.
Are you saying that you think PSA would take that in account and grade it higher knowing that most of the others were more significantly spotted? Or are you saying that because mine's cleaner I should get it PSA'ed? How many stickers were in these puppies? Do you have any doubles, especially of the Irish-only titles?
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Are you saying that you think PSA would take that in account and grade it higher knowing that most of the others were more significantly spotted? Or are you saying that because mine's cleaner I should get it PSA'ed? How many stickers were in these puppies? Do you have any doubles, especially of the Irish-only titles?
I was just speaking in general that it's worth more w/o the spotting (or at least minimal spotting). I'm probably not the best person to ask about PSA grading, so I'm not sure how they would handle it. My guess is that it may not grade that well because PSA wouldn't have the knowledge that most of them have the spotting issue, so they would be compared to average packs that don't have that issue. Maybe Dave could answer that one. Better yet, why don't you send it to Dave and have him grade it? He could do a much better job of it than PSA anyway! (can you tell I'm not a big fan of PSA?)
Unfortunately I don't have any dupes left over. Packs contained 2 stickers, a checklist, and a stale piece of yellow gum!
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Unfortunately I don't have any dupes left over. Packs contained 2 stickers, a checklist, and a stale piece of yellow gum!
Man, speaking of stale gum... does anyone remember how freaking horrible the gum for Crazy Covers tasted? Or was it Baseball Superfreaks? The Wacky gum was OK when it was soft enough not to shatter. But there was another related card set (Crazy Covers, Superfreaks, or 1973 Ugly Stickers) that tasted like assflavored cardboard and literally disintegrated into gross little mealy blobs after a few chews. Yuck! Must have been a non-Topps product because I remember their gum being fairly consistent accross the titles.
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Man, speaking of stale gum... does anyone remember how freaking horrible the gum for Crazy Covers tasted? Or was it Baseball Superfreaks? The Wacky gum was OK when it was soft enough not to shatter. But there was another related card set (Crazy Covers, Superfreaks, or 1973 Ugly Stickers) that tasted like assflavored cardboard and literally disintegrated into gross little mealy blobs after a few chews. Yuck! Must have been a non-Topps product because I remember their gum being fairly consistent accross the titles.
CRAZY COVERS gum was pretty horrific. It may be the only gum thats better 25 years later.
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Pack #102: 1988 OPC Re-Issue Pack (push pop ad)
(http://s19.postimage.org/wis893crn/88_Oppf.jpg) (http://s19.postimage.org/ki6s8d5cz/88_Oppb.jpg)
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Pack #103: 1988 OPC Re-Issue Pack (ring pop ad)
(http://s19.postimage.org/9744jzyhv/88_Orpf.jpg) (http://s19.postimage.org/7th32fomb/88_Orpb.jpg)
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Pack #104: 1989 OPC Re-Issue Pack (push pop ad)
(http://s19.postimage.org/kywl8jihv/89_Oppf.jpg) (http://s19.postimage.org/ytuvr0cwz/89_Oppb.jpg)
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Pack #105: 1989 OPC Re-Issue Pack (ring pop ad)
(http://s19.postimage.org/pal6xjper/89_Orpf.jpg) (http://s19.postimage.org/g42wa9k6b/89_Orpb.jpg)
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Pack #106: 1992 OPC Pack
(http://s19.postimage.org/kehk5up9f/92_OPCf.jpg) (http://s19.postimage.org/j0pxajq03/92_OPCb.jpg)
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Finally, the UK packs. After these, all that is really left are the fun packs.....
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Pack #107: 1974 1st Series UK Pack
(http://s19.postimage.org/6bvmqvjvn/uk1f.jpg) (http://s19.postimage.org/sp3ddoktf/uk1b.jpg)
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Pack #108: 1974 2nd Series UK Pack
(http://s19.postimage.org/wzmmn0fab/uk2f.jpg) (http://s19.postimage.org/fnma1klsz/uk2b.jpg)
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Pack #109: 1981 Irish Series Test Pack
(http://s19.postimage.org/7w5k30hnn/itf.jpg) (http://s19.postimage.org/65mj1j04j/itb.jpg)
I wonder if Greg, Matt or Rob kept track of the pack contents of the packs they opened? Since there appears to still be a "Kill" (needed to complete a set of these) hidden away in an unopened pack, it would be nice to know what sticker was showing on the "Kill" packs that were "killed" (heh heh).
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Pack #110: 1986 Irish Series Pack
(http://s19.postimage.org/jb6mldjdv/irishf.jpg) (http://s19.postimage.org/43qn10rj7/irishb.jpg)
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Pack #111: 1986 UK Re-Issue Series Pack
(http://s19.postimage.org/prflbgrxf/uk86f.jpg) (http://s19.postimage.org/6nm9v4f37/uk86b.jpg)
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Pack #94: 1979 OPC 4 Stickers Pack (super bazooka ad)
(http://s19.postimage.org/an92kaesj/O4ssbf.jpg) (http://s19.postimage.org/ouyr8xrhf/O4ssbb.jpg)
The other interesting thing about the 1979-80 OPC re-issues is that one ad variation is twice as common as the other. I'm not remembering which is the rarer of the two right now, but will research it.
Sorry, I didn't see this sooner, but this is the last wrapper I need for my collection (besides the "printed in USA" OPC S2 wrapper that recently surfaced) and it's been on my list for quite some time, so I bet this is the rarer variation.
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Sorry, I didn't see this sooner, but this is the last wrapper I need for my collection (besides the "printed in USA" OPC S2 wrapper that recently surfaced) and it's been on my list for quite some time, so I bet this is the rarer variation.
Coincidentally, an unopened pack just showed up on ebay, and thanks to Scoot (thanks Scot!) for alerting me about it I just bought it. I had to pay $150.00 for it which is a little high, but I know how rare the wrapper is, so I don't think it's crazy for an unopened pack of this variation.
If anyone has this variation of just the wrapper and would prefer an unopened pack, PM me and we'll try to work something out. I don't collect unopened packs and all I really want is the wrapper for my collection and binder display.
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Rob, you're right, that is the rarer wrapper for the "4 sticker" variant, and I believe the other ad variation is the rarer for the "6 sticker" variant.
Incidentally, anyone know why people always refer to the Irish series as being released in 1985 when the wrapper code suggests 1986?
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By the way, if I don't include fun packs (which I arguably shouldn't, since it's not really possible to document them), there are exactly 111 different unopened packs in my collection right now. Anyone think Jahlon is laughing somewhere?
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Coincidentally, an unopened pack just showed up on ebay, and thanks to Scoot (thanks Scot!) for alerting me about it I just bought it. I had to pay $150.00 for it which is a little high, but I know how rare the wrapper is, so I don't think it's crazy for an unopened pack of this variation.
If anyone has this variation of just the wrapper and would prefer an unopened pack, PM me and we'll try to work something out. I don't collect unopened packs and all I really want is the wrapper for my collection and binder display.
Are you referring to this auction?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1979-OPC-WACKY-PACKAGES-SERIES-1-WAX-PACK-RING-POP-AD-WAX-BOX-/221059444208?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_2&hash=item33782b6df0
This seller has been trying to move these for years. This is not a new ebay auction.
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Are you referring to this auction?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1979-OPC-WACKY-PACKAGES-SERIES-1-WAX-PACK-RING-POP-AD-WAX-BOX-/221059444208?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_2&hash=item33782b6df0
This seller has been trying to move these for years. This is not a new ebay auction.
Yes, that's the one. I hope i didn't get mixed up with what wrapper i needed. The ones without codes can get confusing. This is a rare wrapper, correct? I am pretty sure I needed the 1979 variety. Dave, is the one pictured in the link Ernie showed the 1979 OPC Reisuue series 1 version?
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Yes, that's the one. I hope i didn't get mixed up with what wrapper i needed. The ones without codes can get confusing. This is a rare wrapper, correct? I am pretty sure I needed the 1979 variety. Dave, is the one pictured in the link Ernie showed the 1979 OPC Reisuue series 1 version?
Yes, it's the wrapper you need. Ernie's right that those packs have been up for awhile. It's just that, while they are pretty hard to find, demand is very low too, and since the price he has them at is top dollar, and he has lots of them, they will likely sit on ebay for quite awhile.
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Yes, it's the wrapper you need. Ernie's right that those packs have been up for awhile. It's just that, while they are pretty hard to find, demand is very low too, and since the price he has them at is top dollar, and he has lots of them, they will likely sit on ebay for quite awhile.
Thanks Dave. I probably paid too much for it, especially since I just need the wrapper, but oh well. I've had it on my list for several years.
So the last wrapper I will need is the uncoded OPC series 2 red with "printed in USA" copyright. The only one I've seen is the one or two Matt was selling months ago. What do you know about that one? Was it just recently discovered or was it just overlooked?
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So the last wrapper I will need is the uncoded OPC series 2 red with "printed in USA" copyright. The only one I've seen is the one or two Matt was selling months ago. What do you know about that one? Was it just recently discovered or was it just overlooked?
I believe the wrapper you're talking about was probably used for the 1st series OPC, since the 2nd series pack I have does not
include the "PRTD IN USA" line. I'm not sure who actually made the discovery (Matt or Rusty), but there are at least two
of those wrappers around: the one Matt Stock sold to Bill F. and the one Rusty shows on his page (shown below). I checked
at the time, and the images were definitely of two different wrappers.
I never heard about this variation until Matt's auction. Rusty apparently knew about it before that, but I'm not sure when he
discovered it.
(http://s8.postimage.org/zba4n03qd/Picture_2.png)
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I believe the wrapper you're talking about was probably used for the 1st series OPC, since the 2nd series pack I have does not
include the "PRTD IN USA" line. I'm not sure who actually made the discovery (Matt or Rusty), but there are at least two
of those wrappers around: the one Matt Stock sold to Bill F. and the one Rusty shows on his page (shown below). I checked
at the time, and the images were definitely of two different wrappers.
I never heard about this variation until Matt's auction. Rusty apparently knew about it before that, but I'm not sure when he
discovered it.
(http://s8.postimage.org/zba4n03qd/Picture_2.png)
There's even more to the story than this... When I first saw that Matt listed the wrapper, I thought it looked familiar so I did a search on completed listings. Sure enough, seller ssbone just sold it a couple of weeks prior. That wrapper had been listed for a couple of years for $25 (just like the opc auctions from ebay seller hockeyauctions, although his auctions are priced VERY high). I had even made the seller an offer for the wrapper, figuring I'd keep the wrapper as a dupe for trade, since, even as a regular red opc wrapper, it isn't that common. I didn't offer high since it wasn't in that great shape. I totally didn't catch that it was a variation at the time. It wasn't until Matt purchased it & relisted it with the additional info that I became interested. I could have had it for a lot less had I caught the copyright. I guess it was a good thing, since had I bought it for trade, I would have had it pass through my hands totally unaware of the variation.
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Hey everyone,
Can anyone here provide me with a hi-res 600dpi scan of an unopened die-cut pack? I need it by Monday morning.
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Hey everyone,
Can anyone here provide me with a hi-res 600dpi scan of an unopened die-cut pack? I need it by Monday morning.
I can do a wrapper but it's inside a plastic graded holder. Might not turn out that great but I can still do it.
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I can do a wrapper but it's inside a plastic graded holder. Might not turn out that great but I can still do it.
Thanks, I'll take that to start. Still would like one not in a holder if anyone else can send one. Please email to:
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Thanks, I'll take that to start. Still would like one not in a holder if anyone else can send one. Please email to:
Just sent. If you need it higher res I can do that also.
I removed your email address so it doesn't start floating around the internet via google bots.
If everyone keeps their email address updated under their preferences it makes it easy just to click the email button under your Avatar.
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Thanks, I'll take that to start. Still would like one not in a holder if anyone else can send one. Please email to:
I just sent a 600 dpi of a naked wrapper, hope that can help (until you get a pack scan)
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Hey guys,
It's actually an unopened Die-Cut PACK image I need not an empty wrapper. Thanks to Brad and Patrick though for the wrapper scans. Anyone have a pack please LMK.
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Hey guys,
It's actually an unopened Die-Cut PACK image I need not an empty wrapper. Thanks to Brad and Patrick though for the wrapper scans. Anyone have a pack please LMK.
Take our images, print, fold. Why are you making this so hard..LOL what are you working on?....
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Take our images, print, fold.
Ha! Good idea. I'll give that a try
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Pack #109: 1981 Irish Series Test Pack
(http://s19.postimage.org/7w5k30hnn/itf.jpg) (http://s19.postimage.org/65mj1j04j/itb.jpg)
I wonder if Greg, Matt or Rob kept track of the pack contents of the packs they opened? Since there appears to still be a "Kill" (needed to complete a set of these) hidden away in an unopened pack, it would be nice to know what sticker was showing on the "Kill" packs that were "killed" (heh heh).
Hey this pack is in nice shape compared to the others from that lot. Mine looks about like this one. Mostly clean with only some of those funny black dots from the glue. Some of the packs I saw when these were first found looked horrible. Black stains & dotting everywhere. I think I have "Kick Kat" showing on the bottom. Is that good?
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Hey this pack is in nice shape compared to the others from that lot. Mine looks about like this one. Mostly clean with only some of those funny black dots from the glue. Some of the packs I saw when these were first found looked horrible. Black stains & dotting everywhere. I think I have "Kick Kat" showing on the bottom. Is that good?
When I see your "bouncing elephant-man" avatar, I can't help hearing THE LIBERTY BELL MARCH in my mind... you know, the song they used for the opening of MONTY PYTHON'S FLYING CIRCUS.
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Hey this pack is in nice shape compared to the others from that lot. Mine looks about like this one. Mostly clean with only some of those funny black dots from the glue. Some of the packs I saw when these were first found looked horrible. Black stains & dotting everywhere. I think I have "Kick Kat" showing on the bottom. Is that good?
As I recall I paid a bit of a premium for one of the nicest ones they had. I really have no clue what's a desirable sticker to have showing on these.
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As I recall I paid a bit of a premium for one of the nicest ones they had. I really have no clue what's a desirable sticker to have showing on these.
Yah, I can't remember what I paid/traded for the pack, but it was a lot. At the time I had a nice pack collection, so I was only interested in it as a clean pack & never intended on opening it. Still don't. I think the only vintage packs I've ever opened were those 7th funpacks as an experiment to see if they had Grime Heavy or Dusty in them. Can't remember now which one they had. Oh... and the poster packs, of course, but that's another story.
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I have not encountered a legitimate example of a 7th series pack with the 21-fold no-ad wrapper.
.........
While it's far from a certainty, I will believe that (this pack doesn't) exist for the 7th series until I examine (a) legit example.
Well, after straining a tendon in my wrist and almost putting out my eye with shards of plastic in the process of cracking out
the PSA graded pack I picked up at the show today, I can happily confirm that this pack does indeed exist. Another pack
mystery solved!
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Well, after straining a tendon in my wrist and almost putting out my eye with shards of plastic in the process of cracking out
the PSA graded pack I picked up at the show today, I can happily confirm that this pack does indeed exist. Another pack
mystery solved!
Yikes! Also congrats!
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Pack #112: 1974 7th Series 21-fold Pack (no ad):
(http://s19.postimage.org/eld5ke2cj/7s21naf.jpg) (http://s19.postimage.org/jlalsc7z7/7s21nab.jpg)
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Yikes! Also congrats!
Thanks! I'm really kind of surprised it exists, I've seen literally 50-100 of each of the other three 7th series varieties, so it seemed a long shot that this would be real. But surprises are what keep life interesting I guess!
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Thanks! I'm really kind of surprised it exists, I've seen literally 50-100 of each of the other three 7th series varieties, so it seemed a long shot that this would be real. But surprises are what keep life interesting I guess!
Glad it turned out to be legit, and that you weren't terribly injured in the effort! Will you now send this back for grading and sealing?
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Glad it turned out to be legit, and that you weren't terribly injured in the effort! Will you now send this back for grading and sealing?
Nah, now that I know it exists, it's really just another 7th series pack. The only pack I own that is graded and encapsulated is the die cut pack. The others are all "raw."
I do like this new style of PSA holder though. It's much better than the old one. I hope to buy a few PSA graded baseball card packs in the future, and those I will leave slabbed.
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Nah, now that I know it exists, it's really just another 7th series pack. The only pack I own that is graded and encapsulated is the die cut pack. The others are all "raw."
I do like this new style of PSA holder though. It's much better than the old one. I hope to buy a few PSA graded baseball card packs in the future, and those I will leave slabbed.
Well, I hope you got a good deal on the newest raw pack for your collection!!
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Well, I hope you got a good deal on the newest raw pack for your collection!!
Au contraire, I massively overpaid for it. But I had no choice, I wouldn't have been able to sleep nights otherwise!
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Au contraire, I massively overpaid for it. But I had no choice, I wouldn't have been able to sleep nights otherwise!
You could think of it as an investment not only in the pack itself, but the information it reveals. Arguably, that's priceless. (Perhaps that's easy for me to say since I didn't make the financial investment!)
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Did anyone grag the stash of series 12 and 15 packs roxanne had at the show?
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Did anyone grag the stash of series 12 and 15 packs roxanne had at the show?
Do you know what she was selling them for?
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Did anyone grab the stash of series 12 and 15 packs roxanne had at the show?
I can't be certain of their origin, but Matt had a bunch of 12 and 15 packs he was peddling at the show. 2+2 tells me Matt bought them from her, but I'm only speculating.
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I can't be certain of their origin, but Matt had a bunch of 12 and 15 packs he was peddling at the show. 2+2 tells me Matt bought them from her, but I'm only speculating.
Matt bought them from her. She had them priced at $30 apiece, but he took all the packs she had and got them for considerably
less than that. He sold a few of them to me at zero profit.
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You could think of it as an investment not only in the pack itself, but the information it reveals. Arguably, that's priceless. (Perhaps that's easy for me to say since I didn't make the financial investment!)
That is how I think of it. The pack was priced at $99 on ebay. To anyone but me, it's worth $20-25. But if I let it go it might never show up again and I'd be left a-wonderin'....
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The Old School 4 Series has sent me back to review this thread again -- thanks so much for the labor of love in compiling these images and all the research on unopened packs!
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The Old School 4 Series has sent me back to review this thread again -- thanks so much for the labor of love in compiling these images and all the research on unopened packs!
That's great to hear. Obviously this little corner of the hobby is near and dear to my heart, so if OLDS 4 piques some interest in packs, I'm thrilled!
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That's great to hear. Obviously this little corner of the hobby is near and dear to my heart, so if OLDS 4 piques some interest in packs, I'm thrilled!
And actually, it raised a question for me too. I know the first series of posters was released in 1973 and the second in 1974, but has it been established where they fit in the sequence of sticker releases? Or is that one of the great unknowables of wacky history?
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And actually, it raised a question for me too. I know the first series of posters was released in 1973 and the second in 1974, but has it been established where they fit in the sequence of sticker releases? Or is that one of the great unknowables of wacky history?
I asked exactly that question in this thread:
http://www.wackypackagesforum.com/index.php?topic=2350.0 (http://www.wackypackagesforum.com/index.php?topic=2350.0)
I'm not really convinced the yellow poster packs were sold in 1973, although that is the code on the wrapper. Frankly I have no memory of any poster packs, so I'll take the word of those that do.
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I asked exactly that question in this thread:
http://www.wackypackagesforum.com/index.php?topic=2350.0 (http://www.wackypackagesforum.com/index.php?topic=2350.0)
I'm not really convinced the yellow poster packs were sold in 1973, although that is the code on the wrapper. Frankly I have no memory of any poster packs, so I'll take the word of those that do.
I definitely bought posters, but have limited recall of the year. I fact I did have a Weakies poster in my stash I found from the stuff I bought as a kid, so I must have purchased the initial run in the Yellow packs. I do know by 1975 I was pretty much completely done buying Wacky's as I hardly remember the 15 series at all, but I must have bought at least one pack because I had one series 15 puzzle piece (middle Left) in my original collection.
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I asked exactly that question in this thread:
http://www.wackypackagesforum.com/index.php?topic=2350.0 (http://www.wackypackagesforum.com/index.php?topic=2350.0)
I'm not really convinced the yellow poster packs were sold in 1973, although that is the code on the wrapper. Frankly I have no memory of any poster packs, so I'll take the word of those that do.
Doh! That thread was only from July 2012 and I'd already forgotten. Well, at least it was an interesting question -- even if it's already been hashed out on the forum!
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Pack #11: 1973 3rd Series yellow 21-fold pack
(http://s19.postimage.org/dhenf9j37/3sy21f.jpg) (http://s19.postimage.org/ekyrr83qb/3sy21b.jpg)
This pack is from that cool find from around a year ago that included 43 others just like it. One of my favorite unopened pack finds because of the amazing freshness and perfect condition of the packs. (http://www.wackypackages.org/wackyforum/users/Paul_Maul/uploads/cloud9.gif)
I just found out more details on the find that produced these 3rd series packs (which still appear sometimes on ebay). Read on!
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The following was posted on the PSA card forum by Neil Duty, the guy who had all of these unopened packs (and it turns out the machine also) consigned to him. Reading his post, it now sounds like the machine actually had the wacky and presidents
display material in it when purchased, and the consignor just bought the packs that were described on the header card to match. Is that how others read his post?
(http://s19.postimage.org/uyvmore8z/Picture_2.png)
(http://s19.postimage.org/ass4pvilf/Picture_3.png)
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(http://s19.postimage.org/krd3ccs0z/Picture_4.png)
(http://s19.postimage.org/69fw4d0pv/Picture_7.png)
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I'm not sure what Neil was saying, but it looks to me like the sample cards and empty wrappers were probably just dropped into the display area by the consignor to "advertise" the particular packs he happened to have bought to fill it.
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I'm not sure what Neil was saying, but it looks to me like the sample cards and empty wrappers were probably just dropped into the display area by the consignor to "advertise" the particular packs he happened to have bought to fill it.
That's what it sounds like to me too.
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That's pretty cool piece of history. I've never seen one before. Only a nickel. Dang!
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I'm not sure what Neil was saying, but it looks to me like the sample cards and empty wrappers were probably just dropped into the display area by the consignor to "advertise" the particular packs he happened to have bought to fill it.
yup
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That is amazing to see -- many, many thanks for posting!
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Do you have any pictures of one of these being used to hold packs? I'm trying to picture it in my mind....
Great thread, by the way, Dave!
I actually do have pictures of unopened packs in the spinnerbait tackle box:
60 different series 1-16 packs....
(http://s23.postimg.cc/bxv02e6cb/image.jpg)
(http://s11.postimg.cc/o56lifq9v/image.jpg)
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So are the packs in the storage box on their sides? Kind of hard to tell from this perspective.
And somebody please explain to me how you get full size images to appear in your posts when you use the postimg.org site? Every time that I add an image to a post using the postimg service, the image always appears as a thumbnail that you have to click on to get the full-size image to open in a new browser tab.
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Never mind.... I figured it out. You have to register an account in postimg.org and then copy codes for your full size image...
Anyway, this thread reminded me of something I have been meaning to post about.
I had an old 10th series pack that was not in too good of shape. I noticed a while back that the flaps, which were already loose, had just about come completely open. So I decided to go ahead and crack the pack.
(http://s6.postimage.org/ej8zuz17l/P1030803.jpg) (http://s6.postimage.org/bc9ee8ag1/P1030807.jpg)
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Non-Pupsi checklist inside:
(http://s6.postimage.org/6uc5j90pt/P1030808.jpg)
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Looks like this pack got wet at some time:
(http://s6.postimage.org/dsb7s2sip/P1030809.jpg)
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Stickers inside were PoopedRidge Farm and BigTumi (following the Knight-Move). But as you can see, there is a little bit of gum residue. Surely I could sell these on eBay as EX- ??
(http://s6.postimage.org/n42bm5bdt/P1030810.jpg)
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This definitely illustrates that sometimes the sum of the contents is not equal to the sum of the whole. What I mean by that is that this unopened pack, before the flaps came loose, was probably worth at least $10, but the contents are basically worthless.
(http://s6.postimg.org/ohtyhgan5/P1030811.jpg)
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So are the packs in the storage box on their sides? Kind of hard to tell from this perspective.
And somebody please explain to me how you get full size images to appear in your posts when you use the postimg.org site? Every time that I add an image to a post using the postimg service, the image always appears as a thumbnail that you have to click on to get the full-size image to open in a new browser tab.
Loren, the packs are vertical. And you don't need to register with postimage, you just need to select the "direct link" option.
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Hmmm - I don't see any place on the standard upload page where you can specify "direct link". The only way I could find that option was to create an account, create a gallery, and then I could select my uploaded image from the gallery where I could pick several different options for the link.
(http://s6.postimg.org/87ruetrkt/6_Pack3.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/87ruetrkt/)
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When I upload an image, when it finishes, the codes appear right underneath. One of the URLs says "direct link" and the other just says "link."
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When I upload an image, when it finishes, the codes appear right underneath. One of the URLs says "direct link" and the other just says "link."
Like Loren, I see no options at all. After selecting the file and the button "Upload it!", the postimg popup window closes and the code is placed directly into the message window without any other choices.
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Why do you have a post image pop up window? Are you using a Mac?
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I'm going directly to the postimage.org page and working there. I then copy the codes to wherever I want to use them. I don't see how a pop up window would arise.
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so you aren't using the 'add image to post' link in the Post Reply? that goes to postimg, and brings up the pop up.
I've completely stopped using that link and have gone directly to tinypic. sounds like you go directly to postimage to bypass that link as well.
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LOL, I never even knew that link was there. I just always went directly to postimage.
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LOL, I never even knew that link was there. I just always went directly to postimage.
Ah, that explains it!
You are using the postimage site directly and then copying the link, so your images don’t utilize thumb nails or ads, the same way some of us use Photobucket/Tinypic etc.
(FYI, no registering or signup is required at postimage, Tinypic, and many others)
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That is exactly what I was doing. Using the "add image" link in the reply dialog. Now I will use the "add image" button and insert my direct links from postimg.
So back to the topic at hand. Anyone need a slightly used BigTumi sticker!
(http://s6.postimg.org/n42bm5bdt/P1030810.jpg)
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This explains why I was told not to swallow gum.
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Anyone need a slightly used BigTumi sticker!
what do you mean slightly used? That baby is MINT, untouched & pack-fresh after 30 years.
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LOL, I never even knew that link was there. I just always went directly to postimage.
Dave,
I just discovered this thread today....thanks a mil for posting all these images!! What a great thread to read with all the history; reminds me of the good ol days (were they only 14 years ago?). lol.
Now I have a 2nd, much "bigger" project to get these images into my OS collection binders...
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Glad you enjoyed it!
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Just scored the last two 10th series packs I needed. That makes a total of 62 distinct packs from series 1-16, and finishes up the set of 1-16 packs that I'm sure exist.
There are two more packs...a 7th and an 11th...which may or may not exist.
Also scored a fun pack I'd been looking for for quite awhile.
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Congrats Dave! Quite an achievement.
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Congrats Dave! Quite an achievement.
Thanks, 13 years in the making!
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CongRatz Dave! So what were the last two you needed? Specific ad variations?
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CongRatz Dave! So what were the last two you needed? Specific ad variations?
Yes, they were both 21- fold, one blue can and one brown can, specific ads. Amazingly, Bob1968 had both of them amongst a large group of 10ths he had acquired. There had not been a 21-fold 10 th pack on eBay in four years, suddenly Bob turns up with about 20 of them!
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That is one amazing achievement -- many congrats! :00123103:
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That is so freakin' cool! I love when I am able to complete some aspect of my collection, especially one that goes on for years. I once spent close to 30 years (ages 7-37) putting together a complete set of the 1975 and 1977 7-11 Slurpee Marvel Superhero cups with checklists. There were huge gaps where I was not actively searching, but in a way I always was looking for those cups....yard sales, thrift stores, comic cons, pre-internet catalogs, etc. They were always in the back of my mind. Something in my brain wasn't satisfied until I had them all. I am sure that in 2001, you didn't say "I am gonna spend the next 13 years putting this collection together." You stuck to it and now you are the envy of your peers...haha. Seriously, this is an awesome accomplishment. Congratulations.
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Actually, from 2001-2008, I had no intention of pursuing ad variations at all. I bought out Andy Herrmann's collection in 2009, that was the moment when I believed it might be possible. Still, combining his collection and mine, I had one legit 11th green pack out of the 7 or 8 that exist. A lot of things had to fall into place to make this possible. How it all came together has intrigue, suspense...right down to the final package almost being lost by USPS! It would make a great book, if there were more than 10 people who understand/care about the goal....
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Another interesting twist was when I bought Greg Grant's pack collection in 2011. The main reason was to get the 1st series pack. Yet, in an amazing coincidence, there was almost no overlap in the ad variations between his packs and mine. His yellow poster pack, all 3 OPC Reissue packs, 11th yellow...all were variants I needed. That's when I started to feel the hand of fate on my side.
BTW, beyond the series 1-16 packs, I believe I'm now a 10-cent Ads pack and the two seemingly non-existent
OPC (series 1 and 3) packs away from complete pack nirvana.
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Another interesting twist was when I bought Greg Grant's pack collection in 2011. The main reason was to get the 1st series pack. Yet, in an amazing coincidence, there was almost no overlap in the ad variations between his packs and mine. His yellow poster pack, all 3 OPC Reissue packs, 11th yellow...all were variants I needed. That's when I started to feel the hand of fate on my side.
BTW, beyond the series 1-16 packs, I believe I'm now a 10-cent Ads pack and the two seemingly non-existent
OPC (series 1 and 3) packs away from complete pack nirvana.
Congrats on the achievement! I'd enjoy reading the book, by the way, if you ever write it on how the collection came about.
Good luck on those last few packs keeping you from Nirvana!
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My congrats, as well, Dave! Know you've been chiseling at this for a long time, at Philly shows, eBay, etc. I don't even start it, 'cause I'm sure I'd never have the patience to finish. Incredible job, man!!
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Another interesting twist was when I bought Greg Grant's pack collection in 2011.
I don't mean to get this thread off track or delve into anybody's personal business, but I'm curious if Greg is out of Wackys all together. He was, obviously, such a big part of the collector world back in the day and now I ahve no idea if he has any involvement whatsoever.
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He's not completely inactive, he still attends Philly shows pretty regularly. I wouldn't call him active though.
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congrats as well. pretty amazing feat to determine and track down all the possibilities 30-40 years later.
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congrats as well. pretty amazing feat to determine and track down all the possibilities 30-40 years later.
The funny part is, without the internet I would know almost nothing and have even less. There are probably about 2 of the 62 packs that were obtained without any internet involvement.
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Just scored the last two 10th series packs I needed. That makes a total of 62 distinct packs from series 1-16, and finishes up the set of 1-16 packs that I'm sure exist.
There are two more packs...a 7th and an 11th...which may or may not exist.
Also scored a fun pack I'd been looking for for quite awhile.
Congrats! What an amazing collector/historian/archivist/hobbyist journey!
As for the "may or may not exist" - I have a question. Is it that the packs NEVER existed, or that you think there may be no remaining unopened examples of them in the world?
I ask, as I encounter evidence of candy pieces that I know DID exist at one point but examples of them might not have survived to today, and then there are the mythological pieces, where the only evidence of them ever existing is cloudy recollections.
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It would make a great book, if there were more than 10 people who understand/care about the goal....
Ha! I can relate.
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As for the "may or may not exist" - I have a question. Is it that the packs NEVER existed, or that you think there may be no remaining unopened examples of them in the world?
I ask, as I encounter evidence of candy pieces that I know DID exist at one point but examples of them might not have survived to today, and then there are the mythological pieces, where the only evidence of them ever existing is cloudy recollections.
I'm defining a pack as a distinct series/wrapper combination. So, for example, there are four different blue wrapper variations, and four different series that used blue wrappers (5,6,7,8). But not every series used each variation. In some cases I'm nearly certain a given combination was not used.
So the answer is, some packs may not ever have been produced. There is no 5th series pack with a 21-fold wrapper carrying the wall poster ad. Some combinations I'm nearly certain don't exist, but others I'm much less certain on. There are really only two where I think existence is possible/likely.
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Bravo! Bravo! Great work Dave! I enjoyed that ride immensely thanks to you and all who posted. I learned A LOT and saw back ads I've never heard of like the necklace, the shaker gum thingy and the ID bracelet. Those red packs are so precious. Seeing those is like watching puppies play. Haha! BBG
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News flash! Another unopened pack that I was almost certain did not exist has surfaced! In 13 years of paying attention, the only blue 8th series packs that ever turned up were 85-fold with wall poster ad.
Years ago I acquired two 8th blues that had the 85-fold no ad wrapper. Greg did not think this pack existed, and borrowed one of mine to scan it. However, once I became educated, both of these packs were clearly re-sealed fakes, and no other example ever showed itself.
Until last week, when Kruk Cards auctioned the lot shown below. While they were mislabeled as 7ths, the checklist showing said otherwise. I also believed they were real because of the source and the fact that both packs had nearly identical qualities. I was the only bidder. It's great to be the only one who knows/cares about this stuff!
Received them today, and opened the one with the loose flap. Everything 100% legit. Another wacky mystery cleared up!
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News flash! Another unopened pack that I was almost certain did not exist has surfaced! In 13 years of paying attention, the only blue 8th series packs that ever turned up were 85-fold with wall poster ad.
Years ago I acquired two 8th blues that had the 85-fold no ad wrapper. Greg did not think this pack existed, and borrowed one of mine to scan it. However, once I became educated, both of these packs were clearly re-sealed fakes, and no other example ever showed itself.
Until last week, when Kruk Cards auctioned the lot shown below. While they were mislabeled as 7ths, the checklist showing said otherwise. I also believed they were real because of the source and the fact that both packs had nearly identical qualities. I was the only bidder. It's great to be the only one who knows/cares about this stuff!
Received them today, and opened the one with the loose flap. Everything 100% legit. Another wacky mystery cleared up!
(http://s19.postimg.org/e6g6lde5f/image.jpg)
(http://s19.postimg.org/jj50zi21v/image.jpg)
Not that I don't care, but I've been well warned that "sealed packs" on ebay are questionable, at best.
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Not that I don't care, but I've been well warned that "sealed packs" on ebay are questionable, at best.
That's true in many cases. I've developed some radar over the years, and based on what I stated above I was pretty sure they were good...and they were!
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I've gotten plenty of fakes on eBay, and plenty of legit packs too. I would certainly be wary of spending a lot on a raw pack. Luckily, these were cheap.
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Congrats! Amazing there were still any no poster warappers left around that late in the game.
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What stickers were in the pack you opened? And how was their condition?
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What stickers were in the pack you opened? And how was their condition?
Yicks and Lipoff. Knight's move compliant. Opening packs with tan backed series rarely yields anything nice. In this case one was gum stained and the other had a corner ding and roller marks. And the checklist had the wax stain on the bad side.
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Yicks and Lipoff. Knight's move compliant.
So would that be considered a descending knight's move? I seem to recall a discussion from way back where you had never seen a descending move except in diecut packs.
(http://s16.postimg.org/x6ym4ok35/8th_Knight.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/x6ym4ok35/)
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The B side of the sheet has an extra Yicks row on the bottom...
(http://s19.postimg.org/ygdi0ifab/image.jpg)
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So would that be considered a descending knight's move? I seem to recall a discussion from way back where you had never seen a descending move except in diecut packs.
Incidentally, here is part of a discussion I had on the PSA boards about this topic. The quote is from a very knowledgable collector. He is referring to baseball card sheets here. It doesn't seem to hold true for regular wacky series, but may explain the die cuts.
"A true uncut sheet has 264 cards, it's been my experience that when the cards come from the left half of 132 cards it moves to the left and when they come from the right side the sequence moves to the right."
(http://s19.postimg.org/ub2lelhib/image.jpg)
(http://s19.postimg.org/wtoafa38j/image.jpg)
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Now on ebay....the ever elusive 3rd blue!!!
(http://s19.postimg.org/a3tr019er/thirdblue.jpg)
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Now on ebay....the ever elusive 3rd blue!!!
Haven't you been looking far and wide for this one, was uncertain if it existed? Now we know. LOL
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Hey, PSA may have completely misidentified the pack, but at least the gum isn't poking through the wrapper like so many other PSA 9's I've seen!
I like PSA, but my packs will never go near them.
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Here's a better photo of packs in the plastic spinnerbait tackle boxes.
(http://s19.postimg.cc/vde38i61v/image.jpg)
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Those look sweet Dave. All appear to be in really pristine condition. I imagine we are looking at a lot of hard work. :great:
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Those look sweet Dave. All appear to be in really pristine condition. I imagine we are looking at a lot of hard work. :great:
That is true, but what struck me this morning as I was looking at them is how much the world has changed in 20 years. Had I thought about wackys in 1995, these were all out there waiting. Yet I would have been lucky to find two of them, no less 63 different ones, and wouldn't have even known the first thing about them anyway :)
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News flash! Another unopened pack that I was almost certain did not exist has surfaced! In 13 years of paying attention, the only blue 8th series packs that ever turned up were 85-fold with wall poster ad.
Years ago I acquired two 8th blues that had the 85-fold no ad wrapper. Greg did not think this pack existed, and borrowed one of mine to scan it. However, once I became educated, both of these packs were clearly re-sealed fakes, and no other example ever showed itself.
Until last week, when Kruk Cards auctioned the lot shown below. While they were mislabeled as 7ths, the checklist showing said otherwise. I also believed they were real because of the source and the fact that both packs had nearly identical qualities. I was the only bidder. It's great to be the only one who knows/cares about this stuff!
Received them today, and opened the one with the loose flap. Everything 100% legit. Another wacky mystery cleared up!
(http://s19.postimg.org/e6g6lde5f/image.jpg)
(http://s19.postimg.org/jj50zi21v/image.jpg)
Nice find!
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Pack #7: 1973 2nd Series 21-fold pack with ludlow back showing
(http://s19.postimage.org/o54m8vowz/2sludf.jpg) (http://s19.postimage.org/7in1zsvz7/2sludb.jpg)
This pack originates from a find by Greg Grant around 12 years ago. Pretty cool that not only did a stash of lud packs survive unopened, but the backs were actually showing to prove it! I think there are around 30 of these floating about in the hobby.
I know I'm bringing back another old thread, sorry Bigtomi and Bandaches... :-X
How can you tell it's a ludlow back? I can't really see anything. Is it easier to see in person, because it's hard to see in the picture. I'm not saying at all that I don't believe you, but I'm curious.
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If you look carefully you can see the "snap back" text and the "REMOVABLE" text from the black Ludlow back.
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If you look carefully you can see the "snap back" text and the "REMOVABLE" text from the black Ludlow back.
Still can't see it, but I'll take your word for it.. I guess I have worse eyes than I thought.
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Still can't see it, but I'll take your word for it.. I guess I have worse eyes than I thought.
The "to remove snap back" line is right next to the pack seal...the V from "removable" is right next to the quacker can.
(http://s19.postimage.org/7in1zsvz7/2sludb.jpg)
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The "to remove snap back" line is right next to the pack seal...the V from "removable" is right next to the quacker can.
(http://s19.postimage.org/7in1zsvz7/2sludb.jpg)
Oh okay I can see it now. Thanks.
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Pack #73: 1979 Test Pack
(http://s19.postimage.org/fjd2ka6w3/79tf.jpg) (http://s19.postimage.org/5nbzkn143/79tb.jpg)
I've never really had a feel for how rare this pack is. On the one hand, they seem to turn up now and then on ebay. On the other hand, with several collectors going for the singles to complete sets, several seem to get opened as well. So it's anyone's guess how many are still unopened.
I've never seen these sets. Are they just like the normal reissues?
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I've never seen these sets. Are they just like the normal reissues?
They look very much like normal 1st and 2nd series white backs from 1973, only the die cuts are different, usually featuring sharper corners than the originals. Here is the write up:
http://www.wackypacks.com/stickers/testpack/
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They look very much like normal 1st and 2nd series white backs from 1973, only the die cuts are different, usually featuring sharper corners than the originals. Here is the write up:
http://www.wackypacks.com/stickers/testpack/
Thanks!
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They look very much like normal 1st and 2nd series white backs from 1973, only the die cuts are different, usually featuring sharper corners than the originals. Here is the write up:
http://www.wackypacks.com/stickers/testpack/
What is the current theory on the purpose/source of the square cut band-ache that is on my uncut strips from series 1 and that I also found in the wild as a single card and I hear others have also found them. Must have been part of some set....
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What is the current theory on the purpose/source of the square cut band-ache that is on my uncut strips from series 1 and that I also found in the wild as a single card and I hear others have also found them. Must have been part of some set....
Total mystery as far as I know. Some connection to the cloth series die cut?
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Total mystery as far as I know. Some connection to the cloth series die cut?
What is the evidence that it is not part of the 1979 set? I believe there was an uncut sheet sold by Toppsvault that was presented as the 1979 test set sheet but was that pure speculation by ToppsVault guys doing the best they can to figure out what some of the stuff was?
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What is the evidence that it is not part of the 1979 set? I believe there was an uncut sheet sold by Toppsvault that was presented as the 1979 test set sheet but was that pure speculation by ToppsVault guys doing the best they can to figure out what some of the stuff was?
Based on titles pulled from packs it does seem to correlate with the mail-in poster.
Evidently, some kind of white backed test sheet was produced based on the cloth sheet, with that layout and die cuts. Your strips come from this sheet. I guess there must be different die cuts on many of the titles, do your strips bear this out?
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......... but was that pure speculation by ToppsVault guys doing the best they can to figure out what some of the stuff was?
This statement has proven true in my experience with the 79-80 Topps Vault reissue items. For example I recently inquired on a Wormy Packages production photo that was listed as a 1979 reissue piece. The Topps Vault cert verified this. I asked the seller what the dimensions were and he instructed his staff to send me the "dimensions" and instead they sent me the actual item. It turned out to be a good thing because upon closer inspection I realized this was from the Album set and not the 79 reissue set. I promptly mailed it back to him.
There is also a wrapper proof I have that is mislabeled I think. There are other examples but I cant think of them at the moment.
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This statement has proven true in my experience with the 79-80 Topps Vault reissue items. For example I recently inquired on a Wormy Packages production photo that was listed as a 1979 reissue piece. The Topps Vault cert verified this. I asked the seller what the dimensions were and he instructed his staff to send me the "dimensions" and instead they sent me the actual item. It turned out to be a good thing because upon closer inspection I realized this was from the Album set and not the 79 reissue set. I promptly mailed it back to him.
There is also a wrapper proof I have that is mislabeled I think. There are other examples but I cant think of them at the moment.
A quick glance at the text should of made that obvious to the vault guys. It says 'album stickers' right on it.
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Based on titles pulled from packs it does seem to correlate with the mail-in poster.
Evidently, some kind of white backed test sheet was produced based on the cloth sheet, with that layout and die cuts. Your strips come from this sheet. I guess there must be different die cuts on many of the titles, do your strips bear this out?
I am not really sure what you are asking in terms of the strips bearing this out. All corners are square in my strips, corners are not square on cloth stickers so I don't see the correlation between the two.
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I am not really sure what you are asking in terms of the strips bearing this out. All corners are square in my strips, corners are not square on cloth stickers so I don't see the correlation between the two.
Ok, then I have no idea where the strips come from. They seem to follow the cloth sheet layout, but if the die cuts don't match then who knows?
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Based on titles pulled from packs it does seem to correlate with the mail-in poster.
Evidently, some kind of white backed test sheet was produced based on the cloth sheet, with that layout and die cuts. Your strips come from this sheet. I guess there must be different die cuts on many of the titles, do your strips bear this out?
These infamous strips and the cloth sheet do not share the same configuration. Why are you correlating these square cut cards to cloth series at all? It seems much more logical they are related to the 1979 test set. Just because people didn't pull a band-ache doesn't mean it wasn't part of that set. Does this suggest that all the write-ups, poorman copyrights and websites are theories and that one is no more fool proof than the others?
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These infamous strips and the cloth sheet do not share the same configuration. Why are you correlating these square cut cards to cloth series at all? It seems much more logical they are related to the 1979 test set. Just because people didn't pull a band-ache doesn't mean it wasn't part of that set. Does this suggest that all the write-ups, poorman copyrights and websites are theories and that one is no more fool proof than the others?
I haven't discussed this stuff in ten years and my memory is a bit fuzzy. I see now that the cloth sheet is not configured like the strips, which are configured like the die cut sheet. Still, I don't think the strips are related to the 1979 test. Band-Ache wasn't used in the OPC 1st series or the wall poster, suggesting it was already C&D'd back then. Also, the correspondence between the wall poster and test set is pretty compelling.
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I haven't discussed this stuff in ten years and my memory is a bit fuzzy. I see now that the cloth sheet is not configured like the strips, which are configured like the die cut sheet. Still, I don't think the strips are related to the 1979 test. Band-Ache wasn't used in the OPC 1st series or the wall poster, suggesting it was already C&D'd back then. Also, the correspondence between the wall poster and test set is pretty compelling.
I made use of the infamous poor many copyrighted educational material that you asked for credit to alleviate any need to rely on memory. You should print some copies :-)
Compelling hypothesis is cool but this supports my point, it is all speculation and nobody's is iron clad nor better than the other especially when there is hard physical evidence of uncut strips and unexplained loose cards in the wild that don't correlate to even the theories that are considered the "good ones". There is a very high probability a major piece of information is missing and hence the theories are all equally...theories...
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I have no idea what you're talking about anymore "Tom," but I've forgotten most of what I ever knew about hardcore wacky research. I'm not speaking on this anymore, please refer all questions to Fanatical & Sickly.
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I have no idea what you're talking about anymore "Tom," but I've forgotten most of what I ever knew about hardcore wacky research. I'm not speaking on this anymore, please refer all questions to Fanatical & Sickly.
The wacky packages reference links(that spurred you to ask for credit of its content) have the picture of the strips and a picture of a cloth sheet and all of the speculation around titles in the test series. I am just cautioning you and Fanatical to be careful of calling other research as speculation(Rusty's site) and yet you suggest the information in the reference links is something more than speculation when a major piece of the puzzle is unsolved. I find discussions around this stuff more compelling than discussions around images of the same product being spoofed for the 100th time in ANS wackys or pretty colored borders, chromes and such but that is just me.
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Here's the distinction you're missing "Tom." I have never put a theory out there as fact when there is no evidence whatsoever to support it. My article that you keep referring to is just a collection of observations of changes made in the sheet configurations. Any speculation as to the reasons for those changes is presented as speculation.
Rusty's discussion of the "die cut test set" is written in such a way that someone who didn't know better would think what he's presenting is factual. It is speculation that is not identified as speculation.
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Here's the distinction you're missing "Tom." I have never put a theory out there as fact when there is no evidence whatsoever to support it. My article that you keep referring to is just a collection of observations of changes made in the sheet configurations. Any speculation as to the reasons for those changes is presented as speculation.
Rusty's discussion of the "die cut test set" is written in such a way that someone who didn't know better would think what he's presenting is factual. It is speculation that is not identified as speculation. I really have a hard time believing you can't see the difference.
I see the word "may" used many times in there as speculation, as I'm reading it for the first time now.
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I see the word "may" used many times in there as speculation, as I'm reading it for the first time now.
If you're talking about the 1972 Test Die Cut article, the first two paragraphs alone have 4 or 5 totally speculative statements presented as fact.
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If you're talking about the 1972 Test Die Cut article, the first two paragraphs alone have 4 or 5 totally speculative statements presented as fact.
I see nothing but speculation, questions, statements that say it is possible and such. I can't image anyone would take any of that whole write up as anything but speculation. Regardless, who cares, everything is speculation, everyone get over it.
I am fairly certain(speculation warning) that my uncut strips are the sticker version of the 1972 diecut set that Rusty refers to. I believe some of those stickers made it into circulation, we just don't know how yet. There could be many of these in circulation but few collectors pay any attention to diecut and actual oddities of the stickers as there is so much focus on corners, centering and PSA grades.
My proof of that statement was my winning the bandache square cut on ebay. Also, I have found cut "double wackys" in the wild as hardly anyone even knows the copyright is different on those but cut doubles sure don't look PSA gradable so people skip right over them.
Because the 1979 stickers share the same cuts as the 1972 stickers, in most cases, I bet some of the stickers in 1979 test sticker collections were actually from the 1972 sticker release but the 1979 test sticker craze with the unopened pack find has drawn all attention away from the possibility of 1972 test stickers being out there. An interesting oddity is Gadzooka as the 1979 test set sticker is round, it is square cut on my sheet and it neither on a regular 1973 sticker.
Question for everyone: what does the diecutting look like on a #2 Duzn't? The picture in greg's writeup looks bogus, it looks like a 1973 sticker to me.
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How do the die cuts on the 1st series strips compare to the 1967 die cuts?
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How do the die cuts on the 1st series strips compare to the 1967 die cuts?
I didn't compare every title but seem to be the same.
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I didn't compare every title but seem to be the same.
Can I assume your conclusion matches mine, my strips have cuts that match the 1979 test set cuts, bandache has made it into the wild and people have mixed the two set(1972 test set) and 1979 test set and nobody has certainty on what comprises a complete 1979 test set nor do they know if all of their sticker are actually from that set(except for Eric since his cards only come directly from the packs and he won't buy them on the secondary market as singles).
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The wacky packages reference links(that spurred you to ask for credit of its content) have the picture of the strips and a picture of a cloth sheet and all of the speculation around titles in the test series. I am just cautioning you and Fanatical to be careful of calling other research as speculation(Rusty's site) and yet you suggest the information in the reference links is something more than speculation when a major piece of the puzzle is unsolved. I find discussions around this stuff more compelling than discussions around images of the same product being spoofed for the 100th time in ANS wackys or pretty colored borders, chromes and such but that is just me.
I don't understand all of the hostility towards Dave. He is putting out theories, and you keep coming back like he is stating fact. A decent back and forth of evidence in either direction will offer far more likely of a chance of resolution than looking for something to jump on. Lighten up, and work him instead of against him and maybe some cool evidence will come to light.
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I recently bought this graded pack listed on ebay as a series 12. Looks to me it is probably a series 9 as I think Cents or Czechlets is the sticker that shows through the back. My question, most likely to Dave, is this pack a fake? I remember reading somehwere that you said all known unfaked packs (after series 2) will have a puzzle card, facing either way, through the back of the pack. I am pretty sure I killed some series 16 packs that had a sticker showing through the back, but 16's might be a different story since there are three stickers in the pack, not two. Any thoughts out there?
(https://s31.postimage.org/6oxi06u5j/s_l1600.jpg) (https://postimage.org/image/6oxi06u5j/)
(https://s31.postimage.org/3ys7ma97b/s_l1600_1.jpg) (https://postimage.org/image/3ys7ma97b/)
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I recently bought this graded pack listed on ebay as a series 12. Looks to me it is probably a series 9 as I think Cents or Czechlets is the sticker that shows through the back.
looks like the center piece of the Sootball 12th puzzle to me
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looks like the center piece of the Sootball 12th puzzle to me
Ah, that's probably it. Thanks! So I guess this is a legit pack.
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I have no idea why, but series with white back stickers seem to sometimes have a sticker showing through the seal instead of a puzzle piece. I have seen this on series 1 and 2 as well as 14,15 and 16, but never on a legit tan back series. No idea why.
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looks like the center piece of the Sootball 12th puzzle to me
Yes, and also, the 9th series did not use the 1975 expiration wall poster ad.
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Yes, and also, the 9th series did not use the 1975 expiration wall poster ad.
I wasn't sure either about that either, but Greg has one listed on his unopened pack page.
http://www.wackypackages.org/packs/9th_21_poster-exp75_smaller_images.html
Am I missing something? Thsi pack has a series 9 puzzle piece showing though the back, Wack Pack Wall poster ad, 21 fold, and expires 7/30/75.
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I have no idea why, but series with white back stickers seem to sometimes have a sticker showing through the seal instead of a puzzle piece. I have seen this on series 1 and 2 as well as 14,15 and 16, but never on a legit tan back series. No idea why.
So I guess if you have a series 3 pack and there is a sticker showing though the back then you can assume there are white back stickers in there?
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I wasn't sure either about that either, but Greg has one listed on his unopened pack page.
http://www.wackypackages.org/packs/9th_21_poster-exp75_smaller_images.html
Am I missing something? Thsi pack has a series 9 puzzle piece showing though the back, Wack Pack Wall poster ad, 21 fold, and expires 7/30/75.
I don't agree with Greg's information in this regard. I know for a fact that many of his scans are of fake packs. To me, it makes zero sense that a 9th series pack could use the '75 expiration date when both the 10th and 11th series were still using the '74 wrapper. I will stick with this belief in the absence of concrete evidence to the contrary, but a scan of a pack that could well be fake doesn't qualify.
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So I guess if you have a series 3 pack and there is a sticker showing though the back then you can assume there are white back stickers in there?
I can't say that for sure, just reporting what I've observed.