Wacky Packages Forum
Wacky Packages Discussion => General Wacky Packages Discussion => Topic started by: Paul_Maul on May 08, 2011, 11:24:25 AM
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Check out this auction from the sketch card queen:
http://cgi.ebay.com/WACKY-PACKAGES-OLD-SCHOOL-2-COMPLETE-STARTER-COLLECTION-/160585316043?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2563a176cb
Yep, $5.99 for a base set, checklist set, 5x7 set, concept card set, promos -- the whole shebang except for the sketches!
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Check out this auction from the sketch card queen:
http://cgi.ebay.com/WACKY-PACKAGES-OLD-SCHOOL-2-COMPLETE-STARTER-COLLECTION-/160585316043?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2563a176cb
Yep, $5.99 for a base set, checklist set, 5x7 set, concept card set, promos -- the whole shebang except for the sketches!
The title should actually read all modern Wacky series (and most of the original series) virtually worthless except rare chase cards, bonus stickers, short prints and sketches. Check Ebay. Unless it's sketches, colored borders or rare bonus cards nothing is selling well except for the the spot uniformed buy here and there and that includes the OS (sans series 1 and the last few series). If you want super hard chase cards in Old School we can do that. I can't guarantee more "worth" but that would be a possibility.
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The title should actually read all modern Wacky series (and most of the original series) virtually worthless except rare chase cards, bonus stickers, short prints and sketches. Check Ebay. Unless it's sketches, colored borders or rare bonus cards nothing is selling well except for the the spot uniformed buy here and there and that includes the OS (sans series 1 and the last few series). If you want super hard chase cards in Old School we can do that. I can't guarantee more "worth" but that would be a possibility.
If I was looking for return on my money, I wouldn't be buying Wackys. I collect them for the joy of collecting, (yes I do go after the sketches but only for my own personal collection). I truly hope we don't make this "hobby" solely about money (I.E. Comics in the 80's or the sports cards). To call something "worthless" when value can be contrived from other facets of the hobby is just one sided. I do agree that it is exciting to get a rare sketch or gold foil card, but for us who do this not for the money but the enjoyment, see the whole picture. From reading this forum for about a year I know a lot of you like getting the whole series even though those cards are "worthless". I heard it on the update for series 8. Please everyone remember, "it is only worth what someone else is willing to pay for it" Not what a guide says it is.
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Check out this auction from the sketch card queen:
http://cgi.ebay.com/WACKY-PACKAGES-OLD-SCHOOL-2-COMPLETE-STARTER-COLLECTION-/160585316043?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2563a176cb
Yep, $5.99 for a base set, checklist set, 5x7 set, concept card set, promos -- the whole shebang except for the sketches!
She has done that with other series too. She buys a ton of product and then sells it for a third of what everyone else does. That's not even worth the work involved to sell it in my opinion.
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She has done that with other series too. She buys a ton of product and then sells it for a third of what everyone else does. That's not even worth the work involved to sell it in my opinion.
Yea..she sells everything dirt cheap 'cause she bought so much product chasing the sketch cards..bumchex is doing the same..so now the Lynch sketches are vitually worthless as well...i don't even think its worth producing s Series 3 - just produce sketch cards that's it...even the color sketches have lost a lot of value from OLDS1...oh well...they should just let those two buy everything and the rest of wait until they sell their swill at rock bottom prices..."lowest on ebay" WOW!! what a deal...... :P :P :P
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Yea..she sells everything dirt cheap 'cause she bought so much product chasing the sketch cards..bumchex is doing the same..so now the Lynch sketches are vitually worthless as well...i don't even think its worth producing s Series 3 - just produce sketch cards that's it...even the color sketches have lost a lot of value from OLDS1...oh well...they should just let those two buy everything and the rest of wait until they sell their swill at rock bottom prices..."lowest on ebay" WOW!! what a deal...... :P :P :P
Having these things drop in price isn't the worst thing. It will just discourage the heavy buyers from buying a lot, but it will allow others to get them when normally they would pass because they cost too much. If these series keep coming out there's no way collectors are going to keep being able to keep up the pace to spend hundreds on sketch cards.
Having said that though there's no need to give them away.
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Having these things drop in price isn't the worst thing. It will just discourage the heavy buyers from buying a lot, but it will allow others to get them when normally they would pass because they cost too much. If these series keep coming out there's no way collectors are going to keep being able to keep up the pace to spend hundreds on sketch cards.
Having said that though there's no need to give them away.
Yea..except for Bumchex he seems to have endless amounts of money on sketch cards..selling his swill off... :o...your right though it will be tough to keep up the pace...
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The title should actually read all modern Wacky series (and most of the original series) virtually worthless except rare chase cards, bonus stickers, short prints and sketches. Check Ebay. Unless it's sketches, colored borders or rare bonus cards nothing is selling well except for the the spot uniformed buy here and there and that includes the OS (sans series 1 and the last few series). If you want super hard chase cards in Old School we can do that. I can't guarantee more "worth" but that would be a possibility.
My point is that the sketch cards are wholly responsible for this. Let's say there were no sketch cards. In order to assemble what this seller is offering for 5.99, you'd have to buy at least 3 boxes (for $150-180) and engage in some trading to boot. Do you think the master set would be available for 5.99 under those circumstances? No way.
Just like happened with the 2nd flashback series, no one who is uninterested in the chase items will bother buying any boxes, because they know everything they want can be obtained basically for free on the secondary market. I'm actually pleased about it, as I can get everything I want for a song (and in fact it's a very nice series). I was only referring to the fact that the non-sketch material is precipitously devalued by the sketch cards, that's all.
If I were you or Topps, my concern would be the bottom falling out of the market for sketch cards since those buyers are being positioned as the main support for these series.
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My point is that the sketch cards are wholly responsible for this. Let's say there were no sketch cards. In order to assemble what this seller is offering for 5.99, you'd have to buy at least 3 boxes (for $150-180) and engage in some trading to boot. Do you think the master set would be available for 5.99 under those circumstances? No way.
Just like happened with the 2nd flashback series, no one who is uninterested in the chase items will bother buying any boxes, because they know everything they want can be obtained basically for free on the secondary market. I'm actually pleased about it, as I can get everything I want for a song (and in fact it's a very nice series). I was only referring to the fact that the non-sketch material is precipitously devalued by the sketch cards, that's all.
If I were you or Topps, my concern would be the bottom falling out of the market for sketch cards since those buyers are being positioned as the main support for these series.
Yes, but this same thing happened for series one as well in terms of the non-sketch items being very easy to get. That was always intentional. While I think there are people who will pick them up on Ebay and the secondary market I think most collectors want to get the sealed box and open them up themselves. That is part of the process. That being said I think that sketch cards are driving pretty much every card series now. I'm talking sports, Star Wars, Cereal Killers, GPK, Wacky postcards and everything else. Probably not ANS because the odds were so lousy but if they make ANS8 with much better odds I'd bet that would spark more of a frenzy.
I agree with Dr. Popper in that I hope the sketch card prices drop. You probably won't lose the case buyers (though they may have to sell more to continue as they are) but I think you stand to gain many more sketch collectors (which translates to more boxes sold). I know I'd rather collect all the Jay sketches for $10 instead of $20-$30 and I'd probably start picking up other cooler sketches I like. Most people are happy with their one or few sketches but at cheap prices they may start really collecting them. The inflated sketch prices are really the root of all the problems with the postcards and OLDS series the past couple years in terms of the pre-sale and the quick postcard sell-outs along which in turn has caused frustration and anger from collectors with not as deep pockets.
We could easily make the base set "worth" more by short printing some cards but people were resistant to that when I asked. That is basically the reason it is so cheap. You practically get two sets in each box. I have a few ideas for series three that will not affect the ease of putting together a set but will take care of some of the swill. Give some of it more of a purpose.
Sorry, I didn't get your point initially. I thought you were upset about the value being worthless. The sketches are really the only thing intended to be a bit harder to collect and should have the most perceived value within the series. They are also the best thing to do this with as I think people would be upset if any of the regular parody stickers were extremely hard to get. The sketches are easier for people not collect if they don;t fall within their budget or interest.
PS - Glad you liked the series.
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If you want super hard chase cards in Old School we can do that. I can't guarantee more "worth" but that would be a possibility.
Huh? The "super-hard" chase cards are already here, they are the sketches. That's what's rendering the rest of the stuff worthless. Removing the chase cards is what would lend some value (not a ton, but some) to the series. Harder chase cards would make it worse, not better.
EDIT: Just read your response above and I understand what you were saying now.
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Yea..she sells everything dirt cheap 'cause she bought so much product chasing the sketch cards..bumchex is doing the same..so now the Lynch sketches are vitually worthless as well...i don't even think its worth producing s Series 3 - just produce sketch cards that's it...even the color sketches have lost a lot of value from OLDS1...oh well...they should just let those two buy everything and the rest of wait until they sell their swill at rock bottom prices..."lowest on ebay" WOW!! what a deal...... :P :P :P
Bitter....bitter...party of one....
Who cares how I or others collect. Each collector collects for their own reasons. I like the whole series. I have a ton of it. It's not an endless cash stream either. You, looking through a window, think you know what I'm doing but no one does except for me. You don't know what Leslies doing either she has her own motives as well. If any of us collect for value then you will be disapointed and you shouldn't be collecting. I've collected enough sports card based on value to change my whole philosophy on collecting.
I don't know why I'm going to tell you this but I think I need to. I just added up what I have bought and sold and I am down $400. I have over 100 sketch cards and over 70 in my keeper stash. I also still have about 40 unopened pack boxes, 30 5x7 sets, 15 concept card sets. I've had to make some tough choices on what to sell but I'm really happy with my keeper stash. Selling cards is the same as trading except you use the cash to buy what you want. No difference!
She posted that auction as an auction and not BIN she has no control what it will fetch. It could have been bad timing who knows? I think this is one of the best series and I even have a piece of art coming from it. That is how much I love it.
If you bought 5 boxes and aren't satisfied with your sketches then sell them! Use the money to buy what makes you happy. No one is saying you have to keep what you get from your initial order. Change it!
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I love Old School 2!! The base cards are GREAT…the sketches and other stuff are “okay”. I seem to be one of the few who likes less sketch cards that have ANS7 type odds. Anyway, I'm just happy that Wacky Packages are still being made.
LONG LIVE WP!!! :great:
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I think that something is always worth what someone is willing to pay for it and that we all collect for our own reasons. For me personally, I collect because I enjoy the suspense of opening each pack and not knowing what I am getting and because each card really does make me laugh. It starts out as enjoyment and then begins to turn into a task that needs to be completed. I have so many holes in my collection, but for me, that is the best part- something to chase, a hobby, my unique identity. We all collect to different degrees and that is the fun in it. The world is a big place and there are plenty of wackies! That is what is so great about this forum even...we can talk, trade, support, and sell to each other. The key to keeping value and worth is to recruit new wackateers like myself ;)
Long live Wacky Packages!
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I love Old School 2!! The base cards are GREAT…the sketches and other stuff are “okay”. I seem to be one of the few who likes less sketch cards that have ANS7 type odds. Anyway, I'm just happy that Wacky Packages are still being made.
LONG LIVE WP!!! :great:
No gen 4, I like less sketch cards and love ANS7 for that reason. I also love Flashbacks for that reason!!! I guess we are wacky!
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No gen 4, I like less sketch cards and love ANS7 for that reason. I also love Flashbacks for that reason!!! I guess we are wacky!
It's go to know I'm not alone! ;D
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Check out this auction from the sketch card queen:
http://cgi.ebay.com/WACKY-PACKAGES-OLD-SCHOOL-2-COMPLETE-STARTER-COLLECTION-/160585316043?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2563a176cb
Yep, $5.99 for a base set, checklist set, 5x7 set, concept card set, promos -- the whole shebang except for the sketches!
I guess I am a little disappointed to see them go for that cheap, but hubby goes through the same thing with GPK's. It is not just wackies. The GPK flashback base set of 180 goes for $15-$20 and that is the same scenario. Somebody got a heck of a deal! I just remind myself its a hobby, not a business. Also, it is good to have the option of having time to go through putting a set together or just buying outright. I have bought several sets of things outright at great deals thankfully. This enabled me to get myself started collecting and speed the process of filling holes in my collection. I still have holes and really look forward to deals like the above. If I were caught up, I would ignore those deals and buy my own boxes.
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I guess I am a little disappointed to see them go for that cheap, but hubby goes through the same thing with GPK's. It is not just wackies. The GPK flashback base set of 180 goes for $15-$20 and that is the same scenario. Somebody got a heck of a deal! I just remind myself its a hobby, not a business. Also, it is good to have the option of having time to go through putting a set together or just buying outright. I have bought several sets of things outright at great deals thankfully. This enabled me to get myself started collecting and speed the process of filling holes in my collection. I still have holes and really look forward to deals like the above. If I were caught up, I would ignore those deals and buy my own boxes.
There is still the fun of having boxes, ripping open packs, and putting sets and chase sets together...you really get into it more than others doing it for you..if you have the time and energy..
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There is still the fun of having boxes, ripping open packs, and putting sets and chase sets together...you really get into it more than others doing it for you..if you have the time and energy..
Absolutely, and that is exactly what I am saying. *if you have the time and energy* The deals like above on ebay from card kings and queens allow new collectors to cost effectively fill holes in a collection with bonuses. I have additionally had the joy of ripping open a box of packs and putting chase sets together when I have the time. It all depends.
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There is still the fun of having boxes, ripping open packs, and putting sets and chase sets together...you really get into it more than others doing it for you..if you have the time and energy..
I agree - building sets can be a lot of fun, and trading with people totally adds to that aspect. And I like having extras to stick and make magnets, etc.
Another fun aspect is that I'm planning on giving away a lot of ANS7 stickers (and maybe ANS8??) this Halloween, to encourage kids in Wacky collecting. My problem is that I don't think kids will really appreciate the Old School sets, so I hesitate to give them Old School stickers, even though I have a bunch of extra sets.
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Huh? The "super-hard" chase cards are already here, they are the sketches. That's what's rendering the rest of the stuff worthless. Removing the chase cards is what would lend some value (not a ton, but some) to the series. Harder chase cards would make it worse, not better.
EDIT: Just read your response above and I understand what you were saying now.
The bottom-line with the sketch cards is that they sell boxes, and lot's of them. The reason the base items drop in value is because the boxes sell so fast that the market gets hit with a bunch of it all at once. Without the sketches or tough chasers they base stuff would sell for higher in the secondary market, but there wouldn't be nearly as much hitting the market. Maybe they would still sell out over time, but I have my doubts. Selling out stock fast is better than selling them slow too. It's good for their cash flow, and helps get the next series out quicker.
Love them or hate them, sketch cards are here and don't appear to be going anywhere anytime soon! If I wasn't a nutty-collector like I am I would just get one sketch card per series and be happy with that. For the completist collector the Old School series is a piece of cake compared to the Flashbacks and ANS7, and probably ANS8.
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She posted that auction as an auction and not BIN she has no control what it will fetch.
Nope, it was a 4.99 starting bid with a 5.99 BIN. There's another one up there now with the same format.
I personally don't care how anyone collects or what anything ends up being worth. Let me try to summarize my two concerns as succinctly as possible:
1. This current model of using sketch cards to move boxes will generate sales to sketch collectors and will kill sales to most others. We can argue this point, but I can't imagine too many people will continually be willing to spend $150 for something they can get on ebay for $5 just for the joy of ripping packs. If this mentality sets in, and leads people to value the non-sketch material accordingly in their minds, and then people get sick of sketches, it could have a significant negative impact on overall sales going forward.
2. If I were Dave Gross, it would bother me that the non-sketch material I worked so hard on is being handled like swill with everyone clamoring for the sketch cards. While everyone here respects and likes the overall series, the mental image of people ripping boxes, pulling and examining the sketch card, and throwing the rest on the scrap heap would bother me whether it increases sales or not. Evidently he's not bothered, but to me there is something unseemly about it, as it creates the vibe that the sketches are what's cool and important and the rest is swill.
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Nope, it was a 4.99 starting bid with a 5.99 BIN. There's another one up there now with the same format.
I personally don't care how anyone collects or what anything ends up being worth. Let me try to summarize my two concerns as succinctly as possible:
1. This current model of using sketch cards to move boxes will generate sales to sketch collectors and will kill sales to most others. We can argue this point, but I can't imagine too many people will continually be willing to spend $150 for something they can get on ebay for $5 just for the joy of ripping packs. If this mentality sets in, and leads people to value the non-sketch material accordingly in their minds, and then people get sick of sketches, it could have a significant negative impact on overall sales going forward.
2. If I were Dave Gross, it would bother me that the non-sketch material I worked so hard on is being handled like swill with everyone clamoring for the sketch cards. While everyone here respects and likes the overall series, the mental image of people ripping boxes, pulling and examining the sketch card, and throwing the rest on the scrap heap would bother me whether it increases sales or not. Evidently he's not bothered, but to me there is something unseemly about it, as it creates the vibe that the sketches are what's cool and important and the rest is swill.
And to make matters worse..some of the sketches themselves are almost swill as well selling for under $10 are a result of the dilusion of OLDS2 boxes and # of sketches vs. OLDS1. Specifically Jay's seem to be in this bunch..
Box Logic - $49.95+S&H = ($4.99 Base set + all extras + $10-$15 avg sketch card) = $20 on Ebay - loses 50%+ of its value w/sketches falling as well...aside from the 2 fanatics buying boxes like candy, where's the motivation going into OLDS3...with a more than 50% savings v. Topps or any pre-order as well..math doesn't work - unless you pull a color sketch...yeahhhhh ;D
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1. This current model of using sketch cards to move boxes will generate sales to sketch collectors and will kill sales to most others. We can argue this point, but I can't imagine too many people will continually be willing to spend $150 for something they can get on ebay for $5 just for the joy of ripping packs. If this mentality sets in, and leads people to value the non-sketch material accordingly in their minds, and then people get sick of sketches, it could have a significant negative impact on overall sales going forward.
I can tell you that I have already reached that mentality. I won't be buying full boxes of ANS or OLDS going forward. I will just wait for deals like this to appear on eBay and get the base sets and be done with it. I have spent too much money on this swill as it is!
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We could easily make the base set "worth" more by short printing some cards but people were resistant to that when I asked. That is basically the reason it is so cheap. You practically get two sets in each box. I have a few ideas for series three that will not affect the ease of putting together a set but will take care of some of the swill. Give some of it more of a purpose.
As a big fan of Old School, I would worry about tinkering with things too much. As the old saying goes, "If it ain't broken, don't fix it". That being said, I'd be curious as to what ideas might tweak/boost series 3. However, I think you've got a very successful formula with good quality stuff, so don't tinker too much.
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Nope, it was a 4.99 starting bid with a 5.99 BIN. There's another one up there now with the same format.
I personally don't care how anyone collects or what anything ends up being worth. Let me try to summarize my two concerns as succinctly as possible:
1. This current model of using sketch cards to move boxes will generate sales to sketch collectors and will kill sales to most others. We can argue this point, but I can't imagine too many people will continually be willing to spend $150 for something they can get on ebay for $5 just for the joy of ripping packs. If this mentality sets in, and leads people to value the non-sketch material accordingly in their minds, and then people get sick of sketches, it could have a significant negative impact on overall sales going forward.
2. If I were Dave Gross, it would bother me that the non-sketch material I worked so hard on is being handled like swill with everyone clamoring for the sketch cards. While everyone here respects and likes the overall series, the mental image of people ripping boxes, pulling and examining the sketch card, and throwing the rest on the scrap heap would bother me whether it increases sales or not. Evidently he's not bothered, but to me there is something unseemly about it, as it creates the vibe that the sketches are what's cool and important and the rest is swill.
Dave, as far as your 2nd point, I can see how it could bother Dave a little too, but on the other hand he's obviously looking at the big picture, and if sketch cards help the success of his series than it's a positive, not a negative. There are two reasons the sketch cards get more attention than the rest of the series. First, they are rarer, and second, there is an element of variety and creativity with them, as they are all different, which to me makes them fun to collect.
Also, just because something doesn't sell well doesn't mean it's "swill". I guess you can call it swill from purely a financial angle, but we all know they are more than just value. Most of us don't collect them for value, and like Brad says if that's a collector's motive they are probably going to come up short.
The other thing is the seller you are basing your points on is not at all reflective of the average sellers. She is at the extreme end of things to say the least. I could go to the other extreme and show you 10 auctions from Clint that make the series look like it's worth a lot, but he's probably not selling much at those prices. You really need to look at the average selling prices, not what one particular seller is doing.
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The other thing is the seller you are basing your points on is not at all reflective of the average sellers. She is at the extreme end of things to say the least. I could go to the other extreme and show you 10 auctions from Clint that make the series look like it's worth a lot, but he's probably not selling much at those prices. You really need to look at the average selling prices, not what one particular seller is doing.
It may be extreme, but you have to admit, with two individuals sitting on 100+ boxes they want to get rid of, prices will plummet. The more series people see this happen with, the more they will wait it out and let the sellers compete against each other.
I'm a living example of this to some extent. I didn't buy any Flashback 2 after Matt Stock gave me two boxes of base material for free on Flashback 1, because I didn't care about the color variations, and was able to trade for the few bonus cards I wanted. I did pony up for a few OLDS1 boxes, but soon regretted it when I saw I had vastly overpaid for the items I wanted. That directly caused me not to order any boxes of OLDS2.
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I'm a living example of this to some extent. I didn't buy any Flashback 2 after Matt Stock gave me two boxes of base material for free on Flashback 1, because I didn't care about the color variations, and was able to trade for the few bonus cards I wanted. I did pony up for a few OLDS1 boxes, but soon regretted it when I saw I had vastly overpaid for the items I wanted. That directly caused me not to order any boxes of OLDS2.
So you are more on the conservative side of things and can get the base sets very cheap that way, which is fine. If you don't want the tough chasers and/or sketch cards and are willing to get them after the craze has died down, then they can be bought very cheaply. I for one put a value on the opening process and building sets, and the excitement of possibly getting one of the tougher cards, but I can understand someone not wanting to do that, especially if they don't like them.
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Yea..except for Bumchex he seems to have endless amounts of money on sketch cards..selling his swill off... :o...your right though it will be tough to keep up the pace...
I've never understood the issues some people bring up concerning Brad and Leslie. Neither are buying large quantities to be dealers. They are actually collecting the sketches. Buy boxes, open them, save the stuff you want, immediately sell the stuff you don't, use that money to add to your collection and then repeat. As Brad said he now has 70 KEEPER sketches and is looking for more. It's very smart. Both of them buying during the regular sales period does not affect anyone else so what's the big deal? The pre-sale, yes, but Brad ended up cancelling orders to help other out and neither can be blamed for the initial problem with the pre-sale. No one expected it to sell that quickly based on the previous pre-sale. Gotta use the data you have.
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And to make matters worse..some of the sketches themselves are almost swill as well selling for under $10 are a result of the dilusion of OLDS2 boxes and # of sketches vs. OLDS1. Specifically Jay's seem to be in this bunch..
Box Logic - $49.95+S&H = ($4.99 Base set + all extras + $10-$15 avg sketch card) = $20 on Ebay - loses 50%+ of its value w/sketches falling as well...aside from the 2 fanatics buying boxes like candy, where's the motivation going into OLDS3...with a more than 50% savings v. Topps or any pre-order as well..math doesn't work - unless you pull a color sketch...yeahhhhh ;D
As far as "worth" goes once all boxes are eventually sold then there will be a minor bump up. As has already been pointed out if you are collecting Wackys for an investment that is a bad idea as ALL Wacky sets have lost and will lose value over time as there are really not too many more people that are going to enter the hobby (in fanatical buying terms). This is not a new trend. The ANS, postcards and even OS read the same way.
As for box logic, first, Jay's sketches are less than half the amount of the total so you have the 50% chance to get a different artist. Second, if you get a Jay sketch you are getting a hand drawn piece from one of the original king of Wackys which I know most people are happy to keep. If you are looking to turn it right around to sell, oh well. There is also value in something called fun. You know, collecting, opening boxes and packs, surprise, marveling over that sketch. You are criticizing Brad but to me what he is doing is more noble as a collector then if this is how you view it.
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2. If I were Dave Gross, it would bother me that the non-sketch material I worked so hard on is being handled like swill with everyone clamoring for the sketch cards. While everyone here respects and likes the overall series, the mental image of people ripping boxes, pulling and examining the sketch card, and throwing the rest on the scrap heap would bother me whether it increases sales or not. Evidently he's not bothered, but to me there is something unseemly about it, as it creates the vibe that the sketches are what's cool and important and the rest is swill.
I think the other stuff gets it's due when everyone enjoys that first box and seeing the stickers for the first time so that works for me. I know people check them out in the more quieter times as well! I have had plenty of people on the mailing list I have who are not forum members write me about the series and the stickers. It's not a big deal though I agree that there was way more interest in discussing the gags, images and what not pre-sketch cards. I guess I do know how you feel with what you were saying about lack of OS talk as discussing them is lots of fun! When we all do ANS we never really know what all those kids across the country are thinking about the cards so at least we get some feedback from this forum. Again, I have some ideas going forward for the "swill".
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quoting author=slamjim link=topic=1263.msg29531#msg29531 date=1304967583
Any chance for OLDS bonus cards and OLDS bonus boxes in future series ?
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I agree - building sets can be a lot of fun, and trading with people totally adds to that aspect. And I like having extras to stick and make magnets, etc.
Another fun aspect is that I'm planning on giving away a lot of ANS7 stickers (and maybe ANS8??) this Halloween, to encourage kids in Wacky collecting. My problem is that I don't think kids will really appreciate the Old School sets, so I hesitate to give them Old School stickers, even though I have a bunch of extra sets.
Fabulous idea!!! Def wouldn't give OS away though!
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I agree - building sets can be a lot of fun, and trading with people totally adds to that aspect. And I like having extras to stick and make magnets, etc.
Another fun aspect is that I'm planning on giving away a lot of ANS7 stickers (and maybe ANS8??) this Halloween, to encourage kids in Wacky collecting. My problem is that I don't think kids will really appreciate the Old School sets, so I hesitate to give them Old School stickers, even though I have a bunch of extra sets.
....and I also meant to say that we started my daughter young at 2 1/2 collecting cards. I bought her little mermaid and pocohontas cards to start out. We open the packs together, build the sets, put them in her little binder together, and read the cards at bedtime (they have movie scene stories on them). She is familiar with wackies though!
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First, I have been following the forum for quite awhile now, but I have never posted before. I have never been an active poster on any forums actually. But I find the discussion of our hobby and the value of collections intriguing. As we all know, something only has value if someone is willing to buy it. I think I can speak for most of us that are currently collecting, that our interest stems from our childhood. (You know, when you told your mother that you had to have a quarter so that you could buy five packs, “because that was the only the way they sell them mom!”).
I collect for myself, but yes I also try to acquire extras in the hope that there may be some value like there is with some of my original collection. If our hobby falls into disfavor, and they have no value, at the very least it is something that I hope to pass along to my grandchildren, as something that I was “into”.
But, I feel our hobby is feeling a pressure that we have all caused, and that very well may kill it. Most of us are probably old enough, with at least some disposable income where we can, if not to buy cases outright, at least buy packs at $1.99, or as with the erasers, $2.99. The people that we really want to get into the hobby now, or sons, daughters and grandchildren can’t afford these prices on a regular basis. If it takes 24 packs to make a base set that’s a lot of allowance!
I would say to those people that are willing to sell a base set for almost nothing, that you would do better for us as a community to give your set to a youngster, along with some unopened packs. Maybe if it is a new series, don’t even give them the full set, but yet large enough to peak their interest.
Selfishly this will prolong the value of our collections (investments perhaps), as in 20 to 30 years those young men and women will make the same circle we have with the nostalgia in collecting Wacky Packages.
I have no marketing or economic background, so I do not know at what price point Topps can sell packs. But unless there is a realistic price that new collectors can enter our hobby, we are only all just “playing with each other”.
Just my thoughts, happy collecting.
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First, I have been following the forum for quite awhile now, but I have never posted before. I have never been an active poster on any forums actually. But I find the discussion of our hobby and the value of collections intriguing. As we all know, something only has value if someone is willing to buy it. I think I can speak for most of us that are currently collecting, that our interest stems from our childhood. (You know, when you told your mother that you had to have a quarter so that you could buy five packs, “because that was the only the way they sell them mom!”).
I collect for myself, but yes I also try to acquire extras in the hope that there may be some value like there is with some of my original collection. If our hobby falls into disfavor, and they have no value, at the very least it is something that I hope to pass along to my grandchildren, as something that I was “into”.
But, I feel our hobby is feeling a pressure that we have all caused, and that very well may kill it. Most of us are probably old enough, with at least some disposable income where we can, if not to buy cases outright, at least buy packs at $1.99, or as with the erasers, $2.99. The people that we really want to get into the hobby now, or sons, daughters and grandchildren can’t afford these prices on a regular basis. If it takes 24 packs to make a base set that’s a lot of allowance!
I would say to those people that are willing to sell a base set for almost nothing, that you would do better for us as a community to give your set to a youngster, along with some unopened packs. Maybe if it is a new series, don’t even give them the full set, but yet large enough to peak their interest.
Selfishly this will prolong the value of our collections (investments perhaps), as in 20 to 30 years those young men and women will make the same circle we have with the nostalgia in collecting Wacky Packages.
I have no marketing or economic background, so I do not know at what price point Topps can sell packs. But unless there is a realistic price that new collectors can enter our hobby, we are only all just “playing with each other”.
Just my thoughts, happy collecting.
That was a well-written, reasonable, humorous, and salient post. If it is truly repesentative of your posting style, it's no wonder you're not an active poster on any forum.
Welcome!
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That was a well-written, reasonable, humorous, and salient post. If it is truly repesentative of your posting style, it's no wonder you're not an active poster on any forum.
Welcome!
I don't know whether your praising or slamming this post?
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I don't know whether your praising or slamming this post?
I was praising the post (and poster) and slamming everyone else, including myself, who posts on any forum anywhere. All in good fun, of course!
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I can see the concern of the "bottom falling out" of the sketch card market, and thereby hurting sales of future Old School series. I do think, however, if production numbers remain low as they are, that concern is minimized.
For myself, I bought boxes, because it's fun, and even though I'm not a sketch collector, I enjoy the "chance" of what I might get, and don't get too disappointed when it's not something extra special. Beyond that, I feel I'm getting my money's worth - because in spite of what secondary market value might be, I have a tough time feeling that I'm not getting a lot for my money. Would I avoid boxes next time, to just pick up the other stuff a little cheaper? My answer is no.
I did pick up three of Brad's "boxes-without-bonuses", because I plan to assemble more sets to share with my packaging collector friends - and I love the base set so much, I wanted more to maybe stick, and have some fun with that way, down the road.
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I don't know whether your praising or slamming this post?
He's praising the post and slamming the forum.
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I can see the concern of the "bottom falling out" of the sketch card market, and thereby hurting sales of future Old School series. I do think, however, if production numbers remain low as they are, that concern is minimized.
For myself, I bought boxes, because it's fun, and even though I'm not a sketch collector, I enjoy the "chance" of what I might get, and don't get too disappointed when it's not something extra special. Beyond that, I feel I'm getting my money's worth - because in spite of what secondary market value might be, I have a tough time feeling that I'm not getting a lot for my money. Would I avoid boxes next time, to just pick up the other stuff a little cheaper? My answer is no.
I hope you are typical. Personally, I find it shocking that many of the same people I've seen balk in the past at paying even $50 for nice vintage items have no problem dropping hundreds on Old School boxes. As much as I dig this series, without caring about the sketches, it makes no sense for me to pay for boxes I can get for next to nothing, even while STILL being able to rip packs.
Let me compare it to something you're familiar with, Jason, though the comparison is far from exact. In the comics industry, in the early '90's, changes were made to the nature of the comic book product in order to attract a certain segment of the consumer dollar. Many of these changes alienated the long-term customer (me), and once the short-term customer moved on the bottom did indeed fall out.
Admittedly, this is not really comparable, because having sketch cards really doesn't directly alienate anyone who doesn't care about them. Chase cards in general do alienate some collectors by foiling their completist tendencies. And it could potentially alienate customers if they are later required to pay full price for boxes they've come to expect to get for pennies. I do think it's a bit dangerous when three to five people are buying a significant percentage of a print run, because it makes things unpredictable going forward.
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He's praising the post and slamming the forum.
But not really. It's all tongue in cheek.
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But not really. It's all tongue in cheek.
Yeah, my post didn't really convey that I guess.
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Yeah, my post didn't really convey that I guess.
We need a "tongue in cheek" smiley I think.
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But, I feel our hobby is feeling a pressure that we have all caused, and that very well may kill it. Most of us are probably old enough, with at least some disposable income where we can, if not to buy cases outright, at least buy packs at $1.99, or as with the erasers, $2.99. The people that we really want to get into the hobby now, or sons, daughters and grandchildren can’t afford these prices on a regular basis. If it takes 24 packs to make a base set that’s a lot of allowance!
Selfishly this will prolong the value of our collections (investments perhaps), as in 20 to 30 years those young men and women will make the same circle we have with the nostalgia in collecting Wacky Packages.
Just to address some of your points:
1. I think the $1 price point that the ANS packs had for awhile was probably ideal for encouraging impulse buying. But with stuff like the erasers, I don't think collecting the whole set is going to be too common for kids, more just piggybacking on the popularity of collectible erasers and snagging some sales that way, so price point not as important there.
2. I think we should forget the idea that kids of today are going to be nostalgically contemplating wackys in 25 years. It just isn't very likely to happen given the status of trading cards in general today and all of the other entertainment options. I can honestly say that trading cards were my main interest for close to 6 years of my childhood, and constitute a huge part of my childhood memories. Do you really think any kids of today will be able to say that in 25 years?
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I hope you are typical. Personally, I find it shocking that many of the same people I've seen balk in the past at paying even $50 for nice vintage items have no problem dropping hundreds on Old School boxes. As much as I dig this series, without caring about the sketches, it makes no sense for me to pay for boxes I can get for next to nothing, even while STILL being able to rip packs.
Let me compare it to something you're familiar with, Jason, though the comparison is far from exact. In the comics industry, in the early '90's, changes were made to the nature of the comic book product in order to attract a certain segment of the consumer dollar. Many of these changes alienated the long-term customer (me), and once the short-term customer moved on the bottom did indeed fall out.
Admittedly, this is not really comparable, because having sketch cards really doesn't directly alienate anyone who doesn't care about them. Chase cards in general do alienate some collectors by foiling their completist tendencies. And it could potentially alienate customers if they are later required to pay full price for boxes they've come to expect to get for pennies. I do think it's a bit dangerous when three to five people are buying a significant percentage of a print run, because it makes things unpredictable going forward.
I think the key, with regard to Old School, to avoiding the problems you point out, is to keep to their original and I feel, well-thought-out, structure. Key among that, is the print run, and the price point - and the quality of the main set. If this were a mass-market thing, I think it would be more susceptible to the legitimate issues you point out - because we have already seen that happen.
I don't want to answer back with things you clearly already understand, but as you know, the harm in comics came about from more than just special covers, but they were certainly part of the problem. But again, I think we all agree that the comic and trading card businesses made a lot of mistakes, at least in retrospect. (And I've not doubt we could discuss all of that in detail for many hours - I certainly could.)
The fact is, trading cards and comic books, such as they are now, are not the same kind of consumer product they once were. I realize that some folks may take issue with that, and I invite the discussion, but I would have a tough time being convinced that they are what they used to be, to the market they used to serve. Pricing and chase cards, and changing tastes in entertainment have all contributed to that. Trading cards and stickers are not a significant part of youth culture, as they were 40 years ago. They are something different now. But I feel that Old School is doing a terrific job balancing the various sides of it - it's a series that is true to some much of what we loved back then, but it acknowledges that it is being sold in 2011.
My conclusion is that, as long as the quality of art (in the core series) remains high, and the print runs remain limited as they have been, and the price-per-box doesn't see any inflation, this series has a bright future ahead it, whether the interest in sketch cards sinks or soars to new heights.
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Do you really think any kids of today will be able to say that in 25 years?
25 years ago someone said the exact same thing about kids collecting cards and guess what? We're still here.
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Collecting has completely changed since the 90's chase cards and short prints were introduced to sell more cards. It's been like that for 20+ years. What do you think about all those piles of swill football, baseball, basketball, &etc? It's all the same. There is swill in all the card collecting hobby. They short print the rookies. Collectors only want rookie cards because of future value. I'm sure there are sports collectors with the exact same issues. I just haven't researched it.
It's all about selling more cards. If they didn't do the sketches, people would buy a couple boxes and then trade. Topps would quit making them because there was no profit. Watch what you wish for!
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Yeah, my post didn't really convey that I guess.
Apparently, neither did mine.
I agree with Rob that we need a tongue-in-cheek icon. How about this?
. .
^
(---P)
Unfortunately, that one looks more like a tongue-out-of-mouth icon. Maybe this is better (but not much)?
. .
^
[----}
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I agree with Rob that we need a tongue-in-cheek icon.
We do!
I reluctantly use the eye roll :^) when tongue-in-cheek is what I mean.
[expando]http://reddogreport.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/Obama-tongue-in-cheek.jpg[/expando]
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We need a "tongue in cheek" smiley I think.
I found one but some might find it offensive.
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Collecting has completely changed since the 90's chase cards and short prints were introduced to sell more cards. It's been like that for 20+ years. What do you think about all those piles of swill football, baseball, basketball, &etc? It's all the same. There is swill in all the card collecting hobby. They short print the rookies. Collectors only want rookie cards because of future value. I'm sure there are sports collectors with the exact same issues. I just haven't researched it.
It's all about selling more cards. If they didn't do the sketches, people would buy a couple boxes and then trade. Topps would quit making them because there was no profit. Watch what you wish for!
Just because every card company is printing chasers doesn't mean the products can't profit without them. Chasers are only a gimmick the card lines jumped on to squeeze every extra drop of profit they can. Just because they do it doesn't mean they MUST do it.
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I still think having something semi-rare inside the packs would be neat and add to the value of collecting.
I also think having these be stickers, just like the regular stickers in terms of size/weight would be ideal, and replacing a regular sticker now and then so they would not be detectable by feel. You could do the same with the checklists.
So, for example, have an alternate set of Concept-type cards that only appeared via the regular packs and you would get one every 7 packs or something. And maybe 9 total of these that built another checklist poster on the back.
Then with the stickers, some kind of 9-sticker subset. For example, Wacky Gum stickers. All stickers with some kind of weird gum on them or whatever.
This would mean a 9-sticker subset and a 9-checklist-type-card subset to collect via the regular packs.
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I still think having something semi-rare inside the packs would be neat and add to the value of collecting.
I also think having these be stickers, just like the regular stickers in terms of size/weight would be ideal, and replacing a regular sticker now and then so they would not be detectable by feel. You could do the same with the checklists.
So, for example, have an alternate set of Concept-type cards that only appeared via the regular packs and you would get one every 7 packs or something. And maybe 9 total of these that built another checklist poster on the back.
Then with the stickers, some kind of 9-sticker subset. For example, Wacky Gum stickers. All stickers with some kind of weird gum on them or whatever.
This would mean a 9-sticker subset and a 9-checklist-type-card subset to collect via the regular packs.
These are fine ideas, though I certainly wouldn't want to see them grafted onto the Old School series, lest it lose anymore resemblance to something that is currently still quite old school...
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These are fine ideas, though I certainly wouldn't want to see them grafted onto the Old School series, lest it lose anymore resemblance to something that is currently still quite old school...
But putting one of the so called "chasers" in the packs would be a great move if they could manage the collating part of it. After multiple box collectors crack and open the first box or two, they start to just open the envelopes for the goodies inside, and the boxes get stacked up to the ceiling. If there were chasers in the packs collectors would open all of the packs like the good ole days!
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I still think having something semi-rare inside the packs would be neat and add to the value of collecting.
I also think having these be stickers, just like the regular stickers in terms of size/weight would be ideal, and replacing a regular sticker now and then so they would not be detectable by feel. You could do the same with the checklists.
So, for example, have an alternate set of Concept-type cards that only appeared via the regular packs and you would get one every 7 packs or something. And maybe 9 total of these that built another checklist poster on the back.
Then with the stickers, some kind of 9-sticker subset. For example, Wacky Gum stickers. All stickers with some kind of weird gum on them or whatever.
This would mean a 9-sticker subset and a 9-checklist-type-card subset to collect via the regular packs.
I just got an idea from reading this to go along with a few others I already had so thanks.
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These are fine ideas, though I certainly wouldn't want to see them grafted onto the Old School series, lest it lose anymore resemblance to something that is currently still quite old school...
I have a number of things I can fool around with that won't affect the old style feel we were looking for but still would encourage opening more packs while also making the base set even more collectible.
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I just got an idea from reading this to go along with a few others I already had so thanks.
I read" insert OLD School Gum that's really old"... :o
Goin' to Philly tomorrow?? Topps gunna b'there? Tell'm to bring some OLDS2 posters and boxes...if there's any left??
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I read" insert OLD School Gum that's really old"... :o
Goin' to Philly tomorrow?? Topps gunna b'there? Tell'm to bring some OLDS2 posters and boxes...if there's any left??
Good question, I don't know if Topps will be there. There are plenty of boxes left (read my post on the sold out?? thread). WowyZowy handles all the posters now so Mike would not have any to bring. Binders he would have though.
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Good question, I don't know if Topps will be there. There are plenty of boxes left (read my post on the sold out?? thread). WowyZowy handles all the posters now so Mike would not have any to bring. Binders he would have though.
Maybe handing out a Series 8 promo...Does anyone know the promos their handing out @ the door...
ps GG asked me to make sure Ernie doesn't sneak in early...i don't think he's coming.. bummer... :great:
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I have a number of things I can fool around with that won't affect the old style feel we were looking for but still would encourage opening more packs while also making the base set even more collectible.
Maybe we could have gold gum to chase after ;D
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I predict there will be Ludlow-type backs to chase in the next series.
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I predict there will be Ludlow-type backs to chase in the next series.
Camels can run fast, but I sure won’t be chasing them! :glasses10:
I find it curious that ANS is available in retail stores, but not Old School. I assume the target market for Old School are people in their 40’s and 50’s who collected the stickers as children, but is this is the reason Old School doesn’t show up in retail stores? Since kids are buying ANS, they get tattoos added and put in Wal-Mart and Target, but not Old School. OS must be a much smaller market? I wonder how the production numbers between ANS and OS compare. Maybe a huge difference.
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I predict there will be Ludlow-type backs to chase in the next series.
I was thinking the same thing.
Wait a second... hold the phone! Hold the phone! How about, since it's the 3rd series, a faux error along the lines of Spit & Spill? But instead of using the actual product name on the box top, they could use the original 3rd series title as the error name. So there would be a Spic & Span parody, let's call it "Speck & Spam", with "Spit & Spill" on the top of the box for some small percentage of the stickers. Call Starkist!*
* "Call Starkist" is a reference to the movie "Night Shift" with Michael Keaton as Bill Blazejowski, idea man. Here's the original line: "Bill: What if you mix the mayonnaise in the can, WITH the tunafish? Or... hold it! Chuck! I got it! Take LIVE tuna fish, and FEED 'em mayonnaise! Oh this is great.
[speaks into tape recorder]
Bill: Call Starkist!
Here's another line from the movie to help explain Michael Keaton's character: "Bill: Wanna know why I carry this tape recorder? To tape things. See, I'm an idea man, Chuck. I got ideas coming at me all day... I couldn't even fight 'em off if I wanted. Wait a second... hold the phone! Hold the phone!
[speaking into tape recorder]
Bill: Idea to eliminate garbage. Edible paper. You eat it, it's gone! You eat it, it's outta there! No more garbage!
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I was thinking the same thing.
Wait a second... hold the phone! Hold the phone! How about, since it's the 3rd series, a faux error along the lines of Spit & Spill? But instead of using the actual product name on the box top, they could use the original 3rd series title as the error name. So there would be a Spic & Span parody, let's call it "Speck & Spam", with "Spit & Spill" on the top of the box for some small percentage of the stickers.
That's a good idea. I like that one! The variation sticker could be like a 1:10 ratio.
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That's a good idea. I like that one! The variation sticker could be like a 1:10 ratio.
Intentional error stickers as homage = BRILLIANT! Funny, I read that error text as Spock & Spam. Sounds like a great name for a band. I claim the Trademark!
Another take on some sort of chase card that struck me last night as I was going to sleep: What if you made a sticker subset of all the unique sketch cards? These could be smaller/different in such a way as not to duplicate the actual sketch cards, but would allow for everyone to collect ALL the sketch cards via a sticker subset?
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Another take on some sort of chase card that struck me last night as I was going to sleep: What if you made a sticker subset of all the unique sketch cards? These could be smaller/different in such a way as not to duplicate the actual sketch cards, but would allow for everyone to collect ALL the sketch cards via a sticker subset?
This was already discussed at length after the release of Old School series 1. So much so, that some folks cut up the sketch poster and made themselves a little sketch poster card set.
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Before everyone gets so excited thinking up new chase cards, try to keep in mind that this is what happened with trading cards years ago. It starts with, "Hey, the core set is too easy to collect for adults, let's give them something to keep opening packs.", and leads to someone eventually developing a wonderful set called "Old School" which does away with all of that, and gives us something far more entertaining, in a very different way.
I don't want to throw cold water on anyone's fun, but rather than coming up with "inserts" and "chase cards", I'd rather see real wax wrappers - and if that isn't possible (which I understand it might not be) - well, I don't want to see this series become something it wasn't designed to be. It doesn't need anymore 1990's ideas grafted onto it.
PaulMaul made an interesting observation that the core set was inexpensive/worthless, compared to the rare bonus items. Yes, that might be true right now. But if the answer is to transform, albeit in small ways, the Old School experience into the ANS experience, I think that requires some thoughtful observation as well.
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Before everyone gets so excited thinking up new chase cards, try to keep in mind that this is what happened with trading cards years ago. It starts with, "Hey, the core set is too easy to collect for adults, let's give them something to keep opening packs.", and leads to someone eventually developing a wonderful set called "Old School" which does away with all of that, and gives us something far more entertaining, in a very different way.
I don't want to throw cold water on anyone's fun, but rather than coming up with "inserts" and "chase cards", I'd rather see real wax wrappers - and if that isn't possible (which I understand it might not be) - well, I don't want to see this series become something it wasn't designed to be. It doesn't need anymore 1990's ideas grafted onto it.
PaulMaul made an interesting observation that the core set was inexpensive/worthless, compared to the rare bonus items. Yes, that might be true right now. But if the answer is to transform, albeit in small ways, the Old School experience into the ANS experience, I think that requires some thoughtful observation as well.
Jason, I fundamentally agree with what you are saying, but at the same time, something like a "planned misprint" of a title or two seems fun and in keeping with the flavor of of the OS. If not so much as a chase item, but as a nolstalgic salute to the miscuts, reprints, copyright variations, etc. Of the past. I know many of the OS series variations where not immediately known of at release time but until collectors compared notes later. Just think of it as OS in the Internet era.
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I don't want to throw cold water on anyone's fun, but rather than coming up with "inserts" and "chase cards", I'd rather see real wax wrappers - and if that isn't possible (which I understand it might not be) - well, I don't want to see this series become something it wasn't designed to be. It doesn't need anymore 1990's ideas grafted onto it.
PaulMaul made an interesting observation that the core set was inexpensive/worthless, compared to the rare bonus items. Yes, that might be true right now. But if the answer is to transform, albeit in small ways, the Old School experience into the ANS experience, I think that requires some thoughtful observation as well.
I think it has a pretty good foundation already and shouldn't be modified too much, just a little tweaking here and there to keep it fresh would be cool, like the variation idea. That would also solve the issue of thousands of packs that never get opened.
As far as the value of the base sets go, why do we have to be concerned about the monetary value of them? Why can't we appreciate the fact that they look like the 70's ones, and just have fun with them because of the gags and art? Those that just collect the base sets and don't care about the rarer chasers benefit by not having to spend a lot of money on them.
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As far as the value of the base sets go, why do we have to be concerned about the monetary value of them?
Exactly! We don't all collect for value.
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Good question, I don't know if Topps will be there. There are plenty of boxes left (read my post on the sold out?? thread). WowyZowy handles all the posters now so Mike would not have any to bring. Binders he would have though.
Went to the Philly Show today: Was good..No Topps - no Cereal Killer promos - not a ton of stuff - Greg got me a OS Box Poster - signed by Jay Lynch to my daughter and me...really cool!!
Hooked a Jolly Mean #43 - VG - no popped perf - sharp corners - $20 - little messed up in the front but nice overall...
Signed book by Jay!! nice wrappers...met Shoe, Demented, Greg, and GoodbyeKitty....
No olds3 promo's - no Series 8 promo's - what's the deal....a couple of cereal killer boxes - good cake by Roxanne
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First, I have been following the forum for quite awhile now, but I have never posted before. I have never been an active poster on any forums actually. But I find the discussion of our hobby and the value of collections intriguing. As we all know, something only has value if someone is willing to buy it. I think I can speak for most of us that are currently collecting, that our interest stems from our childhood. (You know, when you told your mother that you had to have a quarter so that you could buy five packs, “because that was the only the way they sell them mom!”).
I collect for myself, but yes I also try to acquire extras in the hope that there may be some value like there is with some of my original collection. If our hobby falls into disfavor, and they have no value, at the very least it is something that I hope to pass along to my grandchildren, as something that I was “into”.
But, I feel our hobby is feeling a pressure that we have all caused, and that very well may kill it. Most of us are probably old enough, with at least some disposable income where we can, if not to buy cases outright, at least buy packs at $1.99, or as with the erasers, $2.99. The people that we really want to get into the hobby now, or sons, daughters and grandchildren can’t afford these prices on a regular basis. If it takes 24 packs to make a base set that’s a lot of allowance!
I would say to those people that are willing to sell a base set for almost nothing, that you would do better for us as a community to give your set to a youngster, along with some unopened packs. Maybe if it is a new series, don’t even give them the full set, but yet large enough to peak their interest.
Selfishly this will prolong the value of our collections (investments perhaps), as in 20 to 30 years those young men and women will make the same circle we have with the nostalgia in collecting Wacky Packages.
I have no marketing or economic background, so I do not know at what price point Topps can sell packs. But unless there is a realistic price that new collectors can enter our hobby, we are only all just “playing with each other”.
Just my thoughts, happy collecting.
Uh oh! You posted! Lol. Definitely agree with you :)
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Jason: I must have missed the "let's do a sticker subset of the sketch cards" discussion, sorry. I was actually thinking mini-stickers ala '82/'86 album series.
Something that struck me recently too is the price of a single pack of OLDS. At $1.99 these are significantly higher than the vintage series in its heyday, even allowing for inflation and a third sticker. To give an idea, a pack from 1973 with two stickers, a checklist, and a piece of gum was 5 cents. In 2010 that same 5 cents would be 21 cents with inflation. How did it get to $1.99 ?!?
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Jason: I must have missed the "let's do a sticker subset of the sketch cards" discussion, sorry. I was actually thinking mini-stickers ala '82/'86 album series.
Something that struck me recently too is the price of a single pack of OLDS. At $1.99 these are significantly higher than the vintage series in its heyday, even allowing for inflation and a third sticker. To give an idea, a pack from 1973 with two stickers, a checklist, and a piece of gum was 5 cents. In 2010 that same 5 cents would be 21 cents with inflation. How did it get to $1.99 ?!?
Where are you getting your numbers? OLDS is not sold per pack. OLDS packs have no set sale price. ANS and Flashback do have a price. OLDS is sold per box and all the contents inside the box (plus the retro box itself) are taken into account for the price. If you make up a fake price per pack (which includes stickers and checklist) you ignore the box (something you didn't get with the OS), sketch card, 5x7 cards, concept cards, poster, envelope, promo sticker and bonus sticker which are part of your purchase. All these items have costs to them including artist fees, printing, construction, packing, shipping, collating, cutting, etc.
For ANS series and Flashback you get more stickers, two sided printing and various chase cards along with the other costs I mentioned above. I'm sure there are other additional higher costs in dealing with the stores that stock the cards, middlemen, gas prices and so on. Just upping it to .21 cents for simple inflation is not accurate at all.
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I was simply ruminating on the cost for kids to buy per pack compared to way back when. Wasn't seriously thinking they'd be anywhere near that cheap. I was also blending ANS with OLDS and think I still have ANS7 on the brain, where they seemed a little steep after the fact.
I also completely forgot OLDS cannot be bought on a per pack basis. Seems like a shame in one sense as I think collecting just the base set would make much more sense if buying them a pack at a time. If that were the case, would they be around $1/pack or so? Just curious.
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Check out this auction from the sketch card queen:
http://cgi.ebay.com/WACKY-PACKAGES-OLD-SCHOOL-2-COMPLETE-STARTER-COLLECTION-/160585316043?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2563a176cb
Yep, $5.99 for a base set, checklist set, 5x7 set, concept card set, promos -- the whole shebang except for the sketches!
I have read this whole thread and I still don't understand your point. What is the "value" of baseball cards today after they are purchased from the store and how do they hold up when compared to the price paid? Without correlating to other collector cards and showing a major distinction, it is hard to say you are doing an analysis. It comes off to me that you are bashing Old school. Even though buried in here somewhere you make a quick reference to your "liking" this set, it is overwhelmed by your headlined subject which is hardly an endorsement of the set.
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I have read this whole thread and I still don't understand your point. What is the "value" of baseball cards today after they are purchased from the store and how do they hold up when compared to the price paid? Without correlating to other collector cards and showing a major distinction, it is hard to say you are doing an analysis. It comes off to me that you are bashing Old school. Even though buried in here somewhere you make a quick reference to your "liking" this set, it is overwhelmed by your headlined subject which is hardly an endorsement of the set.
I think I made my point pretty clearly above. I'm concerned that people buying hundreds of boxes and blowing out everything but the sketch cards at pennies on the dollar is unhealthy for the series' future for the reasons I described in some detail. Not sure why it comes across as bashing Old School, unless that's what you're attempting to read into it.
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I think I made my point pretty clearly above. I'm concerned that people buying hundreds of boxes and blowing out everything but the sketch cards at pennies on the dollar is unhealthy for the series' future for the reasons I described in some detail. Not sure why it comes across as bashing Old School, unless that's what you're attempting to read into it.
I suppose you could read some subtext into the description of your concerns. But, I don't think that's the case.
It's a logical concern that you have, but only if a number of things are also true, and I don't think those other things are. All that we know now, is that due to some bulk buyers, a percentage of base sticker sets are dumped on the market soon after series release. We imagine a scenario where that leads to a hit in future series box sales, due to predicting that availability of low-cost base sets. So far, it does not appear that has happened. Is there any slowdown is box sales?
My feeling is that keeping production numbers consistent, and truly limited, will prevent the bulk buyers from killing the collectibility. Though, I was concerned when I learned numbers were upped to 5,000 boxes for series 2. If Topps can hold the line at 5,000 box print runs, things should not get out of hand.
Unless we suppose that there simply aren't enough collectors interested in Wacky Packages to collect 10,000 Old School base sticker sets. If it turns out that there aren't, then the production numbers have been artificially increased due to sketch buyers, and that is a problem. Is that what anyone really thinks?
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I think I made my point pretty clearly above. I'm concerned that people buying hundreds of boxes and blowing out everything but the sketch cards at pennies on the dollar is unhealthy for the series' future for the reasons I described in some detail. Not sure why it comes across as bashing Old School, unless that's what you're attempting to read into it.
Well, if you reread the first round of responses, many people didn't understand your point so clearly your point isn't all that clear. Even after your attempts to clarify, I hardly see lots of nods of understanding so hopefully you can accept as your starting point that your point isn't all that clear afterall.
You have used some very specific negative connotation words which one can use to figure out the point of a person when it isn't clear: "swill", "Scrap heap" and some odd reference to thinking Dave should be offended.
If there are more sets than collectors, then the price of a set will drop. This is not driven by sketch cards. If it cost people more to make sets, they of course would seek more in return but again, simple law of supply and demand will control the price and it will drop to below cost if supply exceeds demand, it really is that simple.
You almost seem to insist that if these sets can be hoarded as "investments", it hurts future demand.
I would think Dave Gross should be thrilled that so many collectors want the set, your scrap heap statement almost suggested people weren't even keeping their own set and throwing it all away ONLY to get sketches and that just simply isn't true.
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One thing I want to mention- I hate putting sets together that is why I felt selling boxes would be easier.
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You have used some very specific negative connotation words which one can use to figure out the point of a person when it isn't clear: "swill", "Scrap heap" and some odd reference to thinking Dave should be offended.
If you re-read, you'll see that all of those terms were used to describe people's treatment of the non-sketch material. They were in no way used to demean the quality of those items, nor do I have an intent to do so. If I haven't said it enthusiastically enough for you, I have enjoyed the Old School base sets far more than any of the ANS sets. I like 'em!
If there are more sets than collectors, then the price of a set will drop. This is not driven by sketch cards.
How is it not driven by sketch cards? The sketch cards are the reason that there are more sets than collectors.
You almost seem to insist that if these sets can be hoarded as "investments", it hurts future demand.
No, I suggested the possibility that master sets being blown out for $6 could diminish the perception of the franchise's value going forward and negatively impact sales. Jason thinks my concerns are unwarranted, maybe he's right. I don't have a crystal ball.
...your scrap heap statement almost suggested people weren't even keeping their own set and throwing it all away ONLY to get sketches and that just simply isn't true.
I certainly am not suggesting that.
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Jason thinks my concerns are unwarranted, maybe he's right. I don't have a crystal ball.
Actually, I think your concerns could be warranted, but only if certain other things are true; if the Wacky Packages hobby is smaller than what I've assumed it to be, for one.
Let me put this another way: Do we think there are there 10,000 at-least-casual Wacky Package collectors? If there are, that's enough to absorb the inexpensive base sets created through a 5,000 box run, and then some, without any glut being created. But, if the hobby is significantly smaller than that - PaulMaul's hypothetical scenario takes on more concern, because then you're creating surplus base sets, purely in service of the sketches.
The sketch craze, and a few bulk buyers dumping their non-sketch base sets, does not determine the size of the hobby marketplace, though.
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Let me put this another way: Do we think there are there 10,000 at-least-casual Wacky Package collectors? If there are, that's enough to absorb the inexpensive base sets created through a 5,000 box run, and then some, without any glut being created. But, if the hobby is significantly smaller than that - PaulMaul's hypothetical scenario takes on more concern, because then you're creating surplus base sets, purely in service of the sketches.
The sketch craze, and a few bulk buyers dumping their non-sketch base sets, does not determine the size of the hobby marketplace, though.
It doesn't seem this simple to me.
Let's say, under scenario #1, that the 5000 OLDS2 boxes sell out in such a way that all 10,000 sets are obtained by collectors who have either bought boxes at retail, or bought sets on the secondary market for an equivalent price. This is roughly what would happen if there were no sketches and sufficient demand to absorb the boxes at that price point.
In scenario #2, let's say 2500 of the boxes are bought by sketch hounds. If the demand were unchanged from scenario #1, one would expect all the extra base material put on ebay by the sketch hounds would sell for roughly the same price as in scenario 1, to those who couldn't get the boxes they wanted.
If the stuff on ebay is selling at a significantly lower price point, it would seem to indicate that there's enough demand for the base sets at SOME price point, but not at the price point of scenario 1. My concerns kick in in this case even if there is no "glut", because those buyers are only out there at siginificantly reduced prices. Thus if the sketch hounds step back, it could significantly affect sales.
Is that not a reasonable analysis?
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It doesn't seem this simple to me.
Let's say, under scenario #1, that the 5000 OLDS2 boxes sell out in such a way that all 10,000 sets are obtained by collectors who have either bought boxes at retail, or bought sets on the secondary market for an equivalent price. This is roughly what would happen if there were no sketches and sufficient demand to absorb the boxes at that price point.
In scenario #2, let's say 2500 of the boxes are bought by sketch hounds. If the demand were unchanged from scenario #1, one would expect all the extra base material put on ebay by the sketch hounds would sell for roughly the same price as in scenario 1, to those who couldn't get the boxes they wanted.
If the stuff on ebay is selling at a significantly lower price point, it would seem to indicate that there's enough demand for the base sets at SOME price point, but not at the price point of scenario 1. My concerns kick in in this case even if there is no "glut", because those buyers are only out there at siginificantly reduced prices. Thus if the sketch hounds step back, it could significantly affect sales.
Is that not a reasonable analysis?
Only if you assume that a $50 box price is enough of a barrier to stop those folks who bought series one and two. Or if a reduced secondary price of say, $20 for a base set, as opposed to $5, is enough to stop folks from collecting new Wackys. Because that's the worst-case-scenario, right? Is $20 or $25 too high for a "casual" Wacky Packages collector?
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Actually, I think your concerns could be warranted, but only if certain other things are true; if the Wacky Packages hobby is smaller than what I've assumed it to be, for one.
Let me put this another way: Do we think there are there 10,000 at-least-casual Wacky Package collectors? If there are, that's enough to absorb the inexpensive base sets created through a 5,000 box run, and then some, without any glut being created. But, if the hobby is significantly smaller than that - PaulMaul's hypothetical scenario takes on more concern, because then you're creating surplus base sets, purely in service of the sketches.
The sketch craze, and a few bulk buyers dumping their non-sketch base sets, does not determine the size of the hobby marketplace, though.
I have no evidence to back it up, but I don't think there are 10,000 casual Wacky collectors. Maybe 1,000 is more realistic. I think there are a lot of non-sport collectors who collect base sets from several various card series, so they would pick up a Wacky base set just to have but don't necessarily care about the other items. Maybe I'm wrong though. I remember Greg has told me that the extent of collectors who remain "under the radar" is bigger than most of us would imagine. There are a lot of folks who don't like the people part of the hobby and forums or whatever, so we don't here about them. I still don't think we are talking 10,000 though.
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I have no evidence to back it up, but I don't think there are 10,000 casual Wacky collectors. Maybe 1,000 is more realistic. I think there are a lot of non-sport collectors who collect base sets from several various card series, so they would pick up a Wacky base set just to have but don't necessarily care about the other items. Maybe I'm wrong though. I remember Greg has told me that the extent of collectors who remain "under the radar" is bigger than most of us would imagine. There are a lot of folks who don't like the people part of the hobby and forums or whatever, so we don't here about them. I still don't think we are talking 10,000 though.
I know you're making an educated guess, but I think our answer is as simple as this: IF there aren't 10,000 Wacky Pacakges collectors, (of whatever stripes), then 5,000 boxes of of a collector-targeted series is probably too many.
But that's only if you're estimate is correct. If so, it gives some credence to PaulMaul's concern (though perhaps in a different way than he would describe it) that the sell-through on a 5,000 box print run is only possible due to people buying in multiple, due to the inserts, creating a glut of sorts, with the base set.
I suppose there are no clear answers, but I've always enjoyed looking at the things that create perceived value in a hobby. It can be interesting, even if no clear conclusions can be come to.
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Something that struck me recently too is the price of a single pack of OLDS. At $1.99 these are significantly higher than the vintage series in its heyday, even allowing for inflation and a third sticker. To give an idea, a pack from 1973 with two stickers, a checklist, and a piece of gum was 5 cents. In 2010 that same 5 cents would be 21 cents with inflation. How did it get to $1.99 ?!?
You need to look at more then just inflation though. The materials to make the cards are different. The development, production costs, etc.., all come into play.
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... then 5,000 boxes of a collector-targeted series is probably too many.
It's barely enough for just Brad.
LOL, sorry BumChex, couldn't resist.
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If you re-read, you'll see that all of those terms were used to describe people's treatment of the non-sketch material. They were in no way used to demean the quality of those items, nor do I have an intent to do so. If I haven't said it enthusiastically enough for you, I have enjoyed the Old School base sets far more than any of the ANS sets. I like 'em!
How is it not driven by sketch cards? The sketch cards are the reason that there are more sets than collectors.
No, I suggested the possibility that master sets being blown out for $6 could diminish the perception of the franchise's value going forward and negatively impact sales. Jason thinks my concerns are unwarranted, maybe he's right. I don't have a crystal ball.
I certainly am not suggesting that.
No, the reason there are more sets than collectors is because there were more sets printed. Even without sketches, getting 2 sets per box means very quickly there will be more sets than collectors and that equates to prices dropping. This happened with all of the ANS sets with no sketches.....same law of supply and demand formula, same results.
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It doesn't seem this simple to me.
Let's say, under scenario #1, that the 5000 OLDS2 boxes sell out in such a way that all 10,000 sets are obtained by collectors who have either bought boxes at retail, or bought sets on the secondary market for an equivalent price. This is roughly what would happen if there were no sketches and sufficient demand to absorb the boxes at that price point.
In scenario #2, let's say 2500 of the boxes are bought by sketch hounds. If the demand were unchanged from scenario #1, one would expect all the extra base material put on ebay by the sketch hounds would sell for roughly the same price as in scenario 1, to those who couldn't get the boxes they wanted.
If the stuff on ebay is selling at a significantly lower price point, it would seem to indicate that there's enough demand for the base sets at SOME price point, but not at the price point of scenario 1. My concerns kick in in this case even if there is no "glut", because those buyers are only out there at siginificantly reduced prices. Thus if the sketch hounds step back, it could significantly affect sales.
Is that not a reasonable analysis?
I think your theory that there are buyers that exist "only at significantly reduced prices" is flawed. Even you would have purchased a box if that was the only way to get a set but you were smart enough to buy from the surplus for less. You were not a buyer ONLY because of the reduced prices, you would have paid more if you needed to. Buyers taking advantage of lower prices doesn't mean they are ONLY buyers if the price is low. One last time, simple law of supply and demand regardless of scenarios, more sets than collectors equals falling prices. Supply being dumped in a small time frame only means the price gets to that settling point faster but does't change the end result. If for some reason there ended up NOT being enough sets to go around, then buyers of sets during the lower priced surplus time have something that would go UP in value....
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I have no evidence to back it up, but I don't think there are 10,000 casual Wacky collectors. Maybe 1,000 is more realistic. I think there are a lot of non-sport collectors who collect base sets from several various card series, so they would pick up a Wacky base set just to have but don't necessarily care about the other items. Maybe I'm wrong though. I remember Greg has told me that the extent of collectors who remain "under the radar" is bigger than most of us would imagine. There are a lot of folks who don't like the people part of the hobby and forums or whatever, so we don't here about them. I still don't think we are talking 10,000 though.
greg has made many claims that haven't panned out. He felt that without him, later ANS sets, post cards, Olds would all fail as only he had access to this mysterious secret navy seal hoard of collectors. Dillusions of grandeur often have no bounds. Yet here we are today, mid way through the 2nd straight year of the hobby being possibly in better shape than in any recent years with Olds and post card sets selling out with ease, future ANS sets planned, a overwhelming positive vibe in the hobby and no end in sight. It is tough to measure how many kids are collecting ANS wackys. Just one kid per town puts us well over 10,000 "casual" collectors, no?
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But that's only if you're estimate is correct. If so, it gives some credence to PaulMaul's concern (though perhaps in a different way than he would describe it) that the sell-through on a 5,000 box print run is only possible due to people buying in multiple, due to the inserts, creating a glut of sorts, with the base set.
I think multiple purchases are a big part of the sales for series like Old School. I think if everyone was limited to only 1 box and that was all they wanted or needed, the series wouldn't sell out, and 5,000 boxes would be too much.
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It's barely enough for just Brad.
LOL, sorry BumChex, couldn't resist.
No offense taken. I'm only sitting on about 60 boxes now and have gone through over 300.
Having too much fun!
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It doesn't seem this simple to me.
Let's say, under scenario #1, that the 5000 OLDS2 boxes sell out in such a way that all 10,000 sets are obtained by collectors who have either bought boxes at retail, or bought sets on the secondary market for an equivalent price. This is roughly what would happen if there were no sketches and sufficient demand to absorb the boxes at that price point.
In scenario #2, let's say 2500 of the boxes are bought by sketch hounds. If the demand were unchanged from scenario #1, one would expect all the extra base material put on ebay by the sketch hounds would sell for roughly the same price as in scenario 1, to those who couldn't get the boxes they wanted.
If the stuff on ebay is selling at a significantly lower price point, it would seem to indicate that there's enough demand for the base sets at SOME price point, but not at the price point of scenario 1. My concerns kick in in this case even if there is no "glut", because those buyers are only out there at siginificantly reduced prices. Thus if the sketch hounds step back, it could significantly affect sales.
Is that not a reasonable analysis?
Sounds reasonable to me. From what I've seen on here and can infer from ebay, I would assume that a large percentage of the boxes were bought by collectors looking to build/sell/trade sketch cards. In that scenario, you'll end up with a lot of peole who will take pennies on the dollar just to off-load the extra base sets/packs/boxes that they ended up with. And since there's little reason to believe any of these newer sets have any long-term monetary value, better to get what you can now while there's still some interest in the set.
Whether or not that hurts the hobby/values long term is hard to say. I personally don't see the collector base growing much, particularly for stuff that's not available in stores. So the values would probably drop anyway; the sketch-leftovers dumping may accelerate the process though.
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With so many extra Old School stickers floating around I hope most of us here are peeling and sticking them! That's why they have glue, remember? Using the stickers helps eat into the supply and makes the remaining supply more special. So for those who want Old School stickers to hold some sort of value, and for those who feel there are too damn many out there, keep stickin' em!
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Whether or not that hurts the hobby/values long term is hard to say. I personally don't see the collector base growing much, particularly for stuff that's not available in stores. So the values would probably drop anyway; the sketch-leftovers dumping may accelerate the process though.
I think long-term value of Old School base sets depends largely on how long the Old School series continues. If it does continue, and production numbers remain as they are, and the series doesn't change up the base series in some dramatic way, the "value" as part of the larger whole will only increase - with regard to the 33-sticker base set. Perhaps not dramatically, but I don't think the base sets will remain as cheaply had as they are during the initial period of their availability. At least that's my guess.
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I think long-term value of Old School base sets depends largely on how long the Old School series continues. If it does continue, and production numbers remain as they are, and the series doesn't change up the base series in some dramatic way, the "value" as part of the larger whole will only increase - with regard to the 33-sticker base set. Perhaps not dramatically, but I don't think the base sets will remain as cheaply had as they are during the initial period of their availability. At least that's my guess.
Why are you insisting on ignoring the most basic rule in pricing, law of supply and demand? There is little "guessing" required. The value of the sets will not increase just because of future production numbers, changing up and such.....if the series continues and as it continues more and more NEW BUYERS are lured into the picture, some % of them will want to catch up and hence will increase the total demand on the past sets. If that demand increased demand on a fixed or falling supply will result in price recovery. I don't believe there is any other magic involved than that.
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Why are you insisting on ignoring the most basic rule in pricing, law of supply and demand? There is little "guessing" required. The value of the sets will not increase just because of future production numbers, changing up and such.....if the series continues and as it continues more and more NEW BUYERS are lured into the picture, some % of them will want to catch up and hence will increase the total demand on the past sets. If that demand increased demand on a fixed or falling supply will result in price recovery. I don't believe there is any other magic involved than that.
Your exactly right. New collectors come into the mix and then want to get sets from all the ANS series along with inserts. The demand starts to creep up. That is why I build a number of sets and insert sets to keep in stock. People will buy from me through ebay or the forum and then ask if I have any other of the ANS stuff. You can give them a fair price and not have to low ball to move the stuff. Some people just like to buy a lot to have on hand.
I'm not a big fan of sorting cards so I decided to deplete my inventory of cards by selling the boxes with unopened packs. You can most likely build 2 sets per box and I don't have to do all the sorting and storing of sets.
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I think the one thing we are forgeting, at least with OS 2, is the number of MINT sets. As Brad said in the begining of the run how hard it is to put together a truly mint set. I have 8 KA-BOO's all with the same bend in the top left corner...WTF!
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I think the one thing we are forgeting, at least with OS 2, is the number of MINT sets. As Brad said in the begining of the run how hard it is to put together a truly mint set. I have 8 KA-BOO's all with the same bend in the top left corner...WTF!
I did the same thing with ANS 1-6 when I "caught up" as a collector a year or two ago. I was able to pick up unopened packs/boxes and then built the best sets I could by comparing cards one by one. It was very labor intensive, but I have some really nice sets. Did the same for the 85, 91, OPC 91, and album sets. It's amazing when you do this how many cards are "slightly off" -- miscut, etc. They do look really nice!
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I think your theory that there are buyers that exist "only at significantly reduced prices" is flawed. Even you would have purchased a box if that was the only way to get a set but you were smart enough to buy from the surplus for less. You were not a buyer ONLY because of the reduced prices, you would have paid more if you needed to. Buyers taking advantage of lower prices doesn't mean they are ONLY buyers if the price is low. One last time, simple law of supply and demand regardless of scenarios, more sets than collectors equals falling prices. Supply being dumped in a small time frame only means the price gets to that settling point faster but does't change the end result. If for some reason there ended up NOT being enough sets to go around, then buyers of sets during the lower priced surplus time have something that would go UP in value....
There are some of us out there that fit that Dave's bill. I haven't purchased much of anything new (2004 or later). A little here and there, and almost nothing Falshback. But, I do plan on ording one of the cheap master sets of OLDS2 because I like many of them. Of course, I haven't done it yet. With that said, I probably wouldn't fork over the money to buy a box for the set. So the cheap price of the sets from the box buyers got me in.
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Why are you insisting on ignoring the most basic rule in pricing, law of supply and demand? There is little "guessing" required. The value of the sets will not increase just because of future production numbers, changing up and such.....if the series continues and as it continues more and more NEW BUYERS are lured into the picture, some % of them will want to catch up and hence will increase the total demand on the past sets. If that demand increased demand on a fixed or falling supply will result in price recovery. I don't believe there is any other magic involved than that.
I agree with the supply and demand, but I don't see any increase happening any time soon. Take ANS series 1 from 2004. It is now 2011. There have been 6 new series released since then, along with 2 flashback and 2 old school along with losts of other shirts, towels, erasers, etc. to drum up interest from folks who did not collect the ANS1. That set has not inclreased in value, and neither have the unopened boxes. I see the full boxes sell for $20 to $25 on ebay, and many times they go unsold. Based on that, either demand has not gome up, or there is still such a great supply out there that it still has not surpassed demand. Now, that line may be crossed at some point, but I bet that line for ANS2 will never be crossed. They made a ton of that stuff. Also, look at the common series for the original series stuff. Series 5 stickers haven't been produced in almost 40 years, and complete sets still sell for $30 to $35. They were produced at such high levels that they still have yet to reach a shortage in supply, even with all the people from back in the day getting hooked by hearing about Wacly's from the new stuff.
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I was thinking the same thing.
Wait a second... hold the phone! Hold the phone! How about, since it's the 3rd series, a faux error along the lines of Spit & Spill? But instead of using the actual product name on the box top, they could use the original 3rd series title as the error name. So there would be a Spic & Span parody, let's call it "Speck & Spam", with "Spit & Spill" on the top of the box for some small percentage of the stickers. Call Starkist!*
I love this idea!
Plus for OldS4, they could go one step further - just like OS4, do a Bum Chex/Choke Wagon thing, and print two different sheets - the second one having 2 different "replacement" stickers, along with 2 different checklists/puzzles to match. That sure would mix up the box contents. Totally "old school" too. :) Unfortunately the extra cost in printing 2 different sticker sheets & checklists would probably kill this idea.
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I agree with the supply and demand, but I don't see any increase happening any time soon. Take ANS series 1 from 2004. It is now 2011. There have been 6 new series released since then, along with 2 flashback and 2 old school along with losts of other shirts, towels, erasers, etc. to drum up interest from folks who did not collect the ANS1. That set has not inclreased in value, and neither have the unopened boxes. I see the full boxes sell for $20 to $25 on ebay, and many times they go unsold. Based on that, either demand has not gome up, or there is still such a great supply out there that it still has not surpassed demand. Now, that line may be crossed at some point, but I bet that line for ANS2 will never be crossed. They made a ton of that stuff. Also, look at the common series for the original series stuff. Series 5 stickers haven't been produced in almost 40 years, and complete sets still sell for $30 to $35. They were produced at such high levels that they still have yet to reach a shortage in supply, even with all the people from back in the day getting hooked by hearing about Wacly's from the new stuff.
OLDS supply and ANS supply have nothing to do with each other. I dont see ANS supply ever being exhausted. OLDS was a much smaller fixed supply. It has a much better chance of being exhausted. Of course it may never happen but wiping out a few thousand boxes sure is easier than 10's of thousands or more for ANS.
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I love this idea!
Plus for OldS4, they could go one step further - just like OS4, do a Bum Chex/Choke Wagon thing, and print two different sheets - the second one having 2 different "replacement" stickers, along with 2 different checklists/puzzles to match. That sure would mix up the box contents. Totally "old school" too. :) Unfortunately the extra cost in printing 2 different sticker sheets & checklists would probably kill this idea.
Good point about the cost. Perhaps they could have both "Spic and Span" variations printed on every sheet and available in equal numbers. Not quite the same thing, but still kinda fun.
Or if they printed both variations equally, they could just not distribute half (or whatever) of each variation. This wouldn't add any cost; but would make for one less completely unique title in the series, which may not be desirable.
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I love this idea!
Plus for OldS4, they could go one step further - just like OS4, do a Bum Chex/Choke Wagon thing, and print two different sheets - the second one having 2 different "replacement" stickers, along with 2 different checklists/puzzles to match. That sure would mix up the box contents. Totally "old school" too. :) Unfortunately the extra cost in printing 2 different sticker sheets & checklists would probably kill this idea.
Maybe they could do it, if they do the math and think ahead. Ex. On the Olds 3 upcoming series, make the whole top row of an uncut sheet be one say replacement sticker, then just eliminate that row later in the printing Or when cutting the sheets save (X) amount of those cards to include in the boxes trade them out with the parody to be replaced, then just shred the rest. They know how to shred appearently. This would end up with the same result. Or just purposely make some titles in less amounts like back in the day, that way much trading takes place and or pasting them anyplace.
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I like how 1 person is single handedly ruining this hobby! >:D
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I like how 1 person is single handedly ruining this hobby! >:D
Meaning WHO???
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There is only one person paying inflated prices, and selling the swill for pennies. If you're reading this topic you should know who.
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There is only one person paying inflated prices, and selling the swill for pennies. If you're reading this topic you should know who.
No one is paying inflated prices that I'm aware of. Your prospective of inflated prices is probably different than any one else's. Buying and selling is no different than trading. If your calling someone out you should just go ahead and say it and let them defend themselves. This has turned into a very bad conversation because how do you know what someone needs? How do you know what I need? I buy a bunch of stuff and to say I'm over paying is an insult to me. Why say someone is paying inflated prices when, do you know what is an inflated price? Do you have any examples? If you follow the sketches you would know they were all not created equal.
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when is the last time anyone beat sportzfreak in an auction?? And she has to have everything. It was your auction Brad, if i wanted that sketch i would have had to out bid her, makeing it an inflated price. if she has money to burn, then instead of selling her swill for pennies, maybe she should burn it! She doesnt need the money, and prices and other sellers wouldnt suffer.
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when is the last time anyone beat sportzfreak in an auction?? And she has to have everything. It was your auction Brad, if i wanted that sketch i would have had to out bid her, makeing it an inflated price. if she has money to burn, then instead of selling her swill for pennies, maybe she should burn it! She doesnt need the money, and prices and other sellers wouldnt suffer.
It's never fun to get outbid... constantly, but it happens. Every time you or I win an auction, there is typically a loser, just behind our winning bid.
Strictly speaking, if the listing is an open auction, no one is inflating the price - certainly not the winner. It's the other bidders who are inflating it for the winner, who I'm sure would have been happy to pay much less.
Using the term loosely, though, I suppose you could consider EVERY auction that has more than one bidder upping the final tally, as one that has an "inflated price".
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quote author=JasonLiebig link=topic=1263.msg30465#msg30465 date=1307023911
EBAY has a really good encrypted system,then how come we all know when the California chick is bidding
A joke in other wordz
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when is the last time anyone beat sportzfreak in an auction?? And she has to have everything. It was your auction Brad, if i wanted that sketch i would have had to out bid her, makeing it an inflated price. if she has money to burn, then instead of selling her swill for pennies, maybe she should burn it! She doesnt need the money, and prices and other sellers wouldnt suffer.
I see your point..she's "dumping" her excess inventory at pennies but she does have that right...the price isn't inflated if she's willing to pay for it...she might be over paying, but that's her right...will she be able to get a return of those prices probably not? but that's her problem...hence the auction model...i don't like the dumping, but its the nature of the marketplace "ebay" in this instance...
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I see your point..she's "dumping" her excess inventory at pennies but she does have that right...the price isn't inflated if she's willing to pay for it...she might be over paying, but that's her right...will she be able to get a return of those prices probably not? but that's her problem...hence the auction model...i don't like the dumping, but its the nature of the marketplace "ebay" in this instance...
Which takes us full circle back to what i said and what this thread is really about. I like how 1 person is single handedly ruining this hobby!
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I like how 1 person is single handedly ruining this hobby!
Yep, one person ruined the whole hobby :sign0023:
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Which takes us full circle back to what i said and what this thread is really about. I like how 1 person is single handedly ruining this hobby!
Is the hobby ruined for you? Because it's not ruined for me. Before reading this thread, I wasn't even aware of one person winning all Wacky-related auctions. There are other ways to get things, if this one person has dominated all Wacky-related auctions.
I really enjoyed the Old School 2 release, and am still enjoying the stickers. Looking forward to the next Old School series, and the next post cards, and even the next ANS.
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Is the hobby ruined for you? Because it's not ruined for me. Before reading this thread, I wasn't even aware of one person winning all Wacky-related auctions. There are other ways to get things, if this one person has dominated all Wacky-related auctions.
I really enjoyed the Old School 2 release, and am still enjoying the stickers. Looking forward to the next Old School series, and the next post cards, and even the next ANS.
Your right, I may be ruining it also because I have won some auctions. I've sold a ton to other people as well. Everyone is getting in on it. No one is special.
It's like art. I would love to get a nice piece of art for around $500 but other keep bidding me up. Do you think I want to spend $1600? Come on! Those bastards that keep bidding me up are ruining the art collecting hobby.
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Your right, I may be ruining it also because I have won some auctions. I've sold a ton to other people as well. Everyone is getting in on it. No one is special.
It's like art. I would love to get a nice piece of art for around $500 but other keep bidding me up. Do you think I want to spend $1600? Come on! Those bastards that keep bidding me up are ruining the art collecting hobby.
[ CAN YOU AND WHOMEVER CHECK WITH EBAY AND INQUIRE IF YOU CAN HAVE 1 ID FOR SELLING AND A DIFFERENT ID FOR BUYING]
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Yep, one person ruined the whole hobby :sign0023:
As far as I'm concerned the only thing she influences significantly are the colored sketches, and how many of us are going after multiples of those? I haven't felt her presence that much with b&w sketches. I guess she competed with me with the flash golds but I don't think she beat me out on any auctions. She does bother the sellers sometimes with how low she sells stuff, but what are you gonna do?
To me she is very nice to deal with and she is a collector, not a seller. If anyone is affecting the hobby in a negative way it's the dealers and buyers who buy things that we collect with the sole intention of profiting from them. They could care less about the actual cards and art. That to me is an issue.
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From what I understand there are "several" people "running" the hobby. Unfortunately, that's the nature of the game! I came to learn this very quickly as a new collector. You collect because you love it, but you probably wont have it all! Come on dude, its life! Would you still be complaining if you were that person? I know I wouldn't be! :P
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As far as I'm concerned the only thing she influences significantly are the colored sketches, and how many of us are going after multiples of those? I haven't felt her presence that much with b&w sketches. I guess she competed with me with the flash golds but I don't think she beat me out on any auctions. She does bother the sellers sometimes with how low she sells stuff, but what are you gonna do?
To me she is very nice to deal with and she is a collector, not a seller. If anyone is affecting the hobby in a negative way it's the dealers and buyers who buy things that we collect with the sole intention of profiting from them. They could care less about the actual cards and art. That to me is an issue.
I couldn't have said it better!! I hate when I loose an auction just to see that it is now back up on eBay for 4x the winning bid. I don't mind loosing to someone that is going to appreciate what they won and is a true collector.
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I couldn't have said it better!! I hate when I loose an auction just to see that it is now back up on eBay for 4x the winning bid. I don't mind loosing to someone that is going to appreciate what they won and is a true collector.
6 MONTHES AFTER SHE WON AS MANY OLDS 1 SKETCH AUCTIONS AS SHE POSSIBLY COULD,SHE WAS TRYING TO PEDDLE THOSE SAME SKETCHES,PROBLEM IS SHE OVERPAID FOR THOSE SKETCHES.
COLLECTOR MY BUTT!!!!!!!
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To me, the marketplace and the hobby are not the same thing. They are certainly connected in many ways, but in most things, they are not. At least not from where I'm sitting.
The marketplace did not keep me from buying the Old School boxes I wanted to, nor did it affect the quality of the product, or change the price I had to pay to get my boxes. Though there have been instances, in the comic book and trading card hobbies, where the marketplace has hurt both of those aspects of a hobby. In this case, it ain't happening.
If anything, the person paying high amounts for color sketches injected an unexpected kind of energy into the hobby...an energy that probably can't last, and if that's the only hobby you're into.. Well, heads-up, that wasn't all that real to begin with. But there's still so much to have fun with. I just don't think the instant win aspect can stick around, series after series... But that's just me.
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6 MONTHES AFTER SHE WON AS MANY OLDS 1 SKETCH AUCTIONS AS SHE POSSIBLY COULD,SHE WAS TRYING TO PEDDLE THOSE SAME SKETCHES,PROBLEM IS SHE OVERPAID FOR THOSE SKETCHES.
COLLECTOR MY BUTT!!!!!!!
No, she really is a collector. She just is a little erratic with what she decides to collect and I think she changes her mind sometimes, and anything she sells is usually below market. If she was in it for money she wouldn't re-sell stuff so cheap!
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I couldn't have said it better!! I hate when I loose an auction just to see that it is now back up on eBay for 4x the winning bid. I don't mind loosing to someone that is going to appreciate what they won and is a true collector.
6 MONTHES AFTER SHE WON AS MANY OLDS 1 SKETCH AUCTIONS AS SHE POSSIBLY COULD,SHE WAS TRYING TO PEDDLE THOSE SAME SKETCHES,PROBLEM IS SHE OVERPAID FOR THOSE SKETCHES.
COLLECTOR MY BUTT!!!!!!!
A little short sided IMO, so you have every wacky you have ever bought and have never changed your mind on a card or got a better card and sold or traded the old one? It seems to me that you are missing half the fun of collecting :^) I know I have.
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No, she really is a collector. She just is a little erratic with what she decides to collect and I think she changes her mind sometimes, and anything she sells is usually below market. If she was in it for money she wouldn't re-sell stuff so cheap!
IMO, anything that anyone sells on e-bay for any price is their business. Also, I do not think it is ruining the hobby at all. If anything, it is giving some collectors an extremely affordable option. If the demand was such, then these would be ending up for a lot more - some do, some don't and it's all driven by the demand of the particular items and even the timing. I also think that, because it is so easy for anyone to "get in" to the hobby because of low prices, then it is more likely they will start to collect even more if they like it. Bottom line, everyone is free to do as they please, bid - don't bid, collect - don't collect, collect like a completest - collect just base sets - whatever, who cares?
I am just glad that there are Wackys right now and that there is enough interest even to have a cool forum such as this! There was a span back in the day before e-bay and the internet in the late eighties and nineties when there were no new packs or cards to be had.
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6 MONTHES AFTER SHE WON AS MANY OLDS 1 SKETCH AUCTIONS AS SHE POSSIBLY COULD,SHE WAS TRYING TO PEDDLE THOSE SAME SKETCHES,PROBLEM IS SHE OVERPAID FOR THOSE SKETCHES.
COLLECTOR MY BUTT!!!!!!!
She is definitely a collector. And collectors 'upgrade' their collections at times, which results in previous purchases being offered back for sale. If she took a loss on some items, that's her choice, and I don't see where that should be a problem for anyone here. Most of the 'dealers' out there would have just tried to jack up the asking prices.
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A little short sided IMO, so you have every wacky you have ever bought and have never changed your mind on a card or got a better card and sold or traded the old one? It seems to me that you are missing half the fun of collecting :^) I know I have.
A TRUE COLLECTOR DOES NOT NEED BOTH COLORED PUPSI',MORE ACCURATE DESCRIPTION WOULD BE A CHICK WHOSE GOT MONEY TO BURN.
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A little short sided IMO, so you have every wacky you have ever bought and have never changed your mind on a card or got a better card and sold or traded the old one? It seems to me that you are missing half the fun of collecting :^) I know I have.
A TRUE COLLECTOR DOES NOT NEED BOTH COLORED PUPSI',MORE ACCURATE DESCRIPTION WOULD BE A CHICK WHOSE GOT MONEY TO BURN.
Hey Lance, you seem to be struggling to keep your posts outside of the pre-posters window lately. Should I PM you the Forum Standard Operational Procedures (FSOP) PDF file so you can brush up on it? No charge of course!
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IMO, anything that anyone sells on e-bay for any price is their business. Also, I do not think it is ruining the hobby at all. If anything, it is giving some collectors an extremely affordable option. If the demand was such, then these would be ending up for a lot more - some do, some don't and it's all driven by the demand of the particular items and even the timing. I also think that, because it is so easy for anyone to "get in" to the hobby because of low prices, then it is more likely they will start to collect even more if they like it. Bottom line, everyone is free to do as they please, bid - don't bid, collect - don't collect, collect like a completest - collect just base sets - whatever, who cares?
I am just glad that there are Wackys right now and that there is enough interest even to have a cool forum such as this! There was a span back in the day before e-bay and the internet in the late eighties and nineties when there were no new packs or cards to be had.
I don't think anyone is disputing that she has the "right" to buy and sell whatever she wants at whatever price. However, that doesn't necessarily make it good for the hobby. As an example, if sportzfreak decided she would buy every box of OLDS2, keep every copy of Stinkin' Legs, and then dump all the other product for pennies, I can't imagine anyone being pleased about it, though she is within her rights.
So allow for the possibility that her collecting behaviors, while within her rights, may be detrimental to others. That's not necessarily the case, but it's certainly possible.
I would suggest that the ideal mindset for a collector is respectful selfishness. By that I mean a collector has the right to pursue his or her own interests, but it would be nice to do so while helping/not hurting others as much as possible.
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I would suggest that the ideal mindset for a collector is respectful selfishness. By that I mean a collector has the right to pursue his or her own interests, but it would be nice to do so while helping/not hurting others as much as possible.
That's true too. I remember 10 years ago or so when Kirk Daniels was winning all of the hi-end auctions like die-cuts, S16, etc., that I wouldn't even bother bidding because I know I would just be frustrated. Then to add insult to injury I later learned that he had multiple sets of what he was still buying, like almost hoarding certain series. I think at one point he had 15 complete die-cut sets. He was well within his right but it's hard not to have resentment with a situation like that.
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That's true too. I remember 10 years ago or so when Kirk Daniels was winning all of the hi-end auctions like die-cuts, S16, etc., that I wouldn't even bother bidding because I know I would just be frustrated. Then to add insult to injury I later learned that he had multiple sets of what he was still buying, like almost hoarding certain series. I think at one point he had 15 complete die-cut sets. He was well within his right but it's hard not to have resentment with a situation like that.
When those cello funpacks were still not common, someone auctioned about 12 of them at the same time. Kirk won eleven of them, and ran me up to near my max bid on the 12th.
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Rob,are you the new RonZombie? Free Of Charge[FOC] soundz just like Ron
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Rob,are you the new RonZombie? Free Of Charge[FOC] soundz just like Ron
Nope!!! I'm (not) Ron Z!!!!??? Just still mee..........Dr Popper!!!! Have a (Wacky) weekend my frend!!!!!!!!! haha
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I couldn't have said it better!! I hate when I loose an auction just to see that it is now back up on eBay for 4x the winning bid. I don't mind loosing to someone that is going to appreciate what they won and is a true collector.
6 MONTHES AFTER SHE WON AS MANY OLDS 1 SKETCH AUCTIONS AS SHE POSSIBLY COULD,SHE WAS TRYING TO PEDDLE THOSE SAME SKETCHES,PROBLEM IS SHE OVERPAID FOR THOSE SKETCHES.
COLLECTOR MY BUTT!!!!!!!
Dude, Well said..I saw that too...who was she going to sell those too except back to herself...I think she realized that after the OLDS1 sketch auctions...
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I would suggest that the ideal mindset for a collector is respectful selfishness.
By that I mean a collector has the right to pursue his or her own interests, but it would be nice to do so while helping/not hurting others as much as possible.
A Collectors Code of Conduct - I like it.
"respectful selfishness" lol
Some people might believe that's an oxymoron. :-\
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quote author=Hustler08 link=topic=1263.msg30521#msg30521 date=1307117045
Hopefully this back and forth banter will not take any money out of Jay's pocket,we will find out tonight.
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No one is paying inflated prices that I'm aware of. Your prospective of inflated prices is probably different than any one else's. Buying and selling is no different than trading. If your calling someone out you should just go ahead and say it and let them defend themselves. This has turned into a very bad conversation because how do you know what someone needs? How do you know what I need? I buy a bunch of stuff and to say I'm over paying is an insult to me. Why say someone is paying inflated prices when, do you know what is an inflated price? Do you have any examples? If you follow the sketches you would know they were all not created equal.
The real question is: Why would you care if someone thinks you are overpaying for something? I don't think it is you this person is referring to but I believe this person is wrong in assuming there is only one high spender on sketches. Regardless, I am still lost on why you care. Saying someone is an overspender is only as insulting as you allow it to be.
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when is the last time anyone beat sportzfreak in an auction?? And she has to have everything. It was your auction Brad, if i wanted that sketch i would have had to out bid her, makeing it an inflated price. if she has money to burn, then instead of selling her swill for pennies, maybe she should burn it! She doesnt need the money, and prices and other sellers wouldnt suffer.
This is a fair comment. If Leslie is in fact selling her extras at far below normal prices just because she doesn't care how much she gets in return, it would hurt the people who would like to get a decent return on their extras. I can see Leslie's selling habit has being on the careless almost obnoxious side.
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Which takes us full circle back to what i said and what this thread is really about. I like how 1 person is single handedly ruining this hobby!
Your issue is that you define the hobby based on value. that is a shame. Her buying and selling habits have very little influcence on "the hobby". Do find the art and gags and less desirable because of Leslie's erratic buying and selling habits? if so, that is a shame.
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I don't think anyone is disputing that she has the "right" to buy and sell whatever she wants at whatever price. However, that doesn't necessarily make it good for the hobby. As an example, if sportzfreak decided she would buy every box of OLDS2, keep every copy of Stinkin' Legs, and then dump all the other product for pennies, I can't imagine anyone being pleased about it, though she is within her rights.
So allow for the possibility that her collecting behaviors, while within her rights, may be detrimental to others. That's not necessarily the case, but it's certainly possible.
I would suggest that the ideal mindset for a collector is respectful selfishness. By that I mean a collector has the right to pursue his or her own interests, but it would be nice to do so while helping/not hurting others as much as possible.
I think we are discussing her actual habits, not the hypothetical. I agree with you that hypothetically, anyone can take steps that are actually detrimental but the steps she has actually taken have not ruined the hobby. They have impacted prices if in fact she has decided to dump product below established market prices.
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When those cello funpacks were still not common, someone auctioned about 12 of them at the same time. Kirk won eleven of them, and ran me up to near my max bid on the 12th.
Are you sure he wasn't using ebay as a price fixer and selling larger quantities than he was buying at these high prices? For example, he is selling 100 diecuts and wants to charge $30 each. If he wins 10 on ebay at $30 each for the purpose of establishing a higher market price so he can sell his 100, he makes out quite well on this private deals. Running you up to near your max bid and not winning it after winning the others suggests there was a motive. Maybe he was just purely spiteful if he felt you had run him up on an auction. I know him to be a spiteful person as he tried to give me negative feedback on ebay when he took over 2 weeks to pay for a $25 item. I told him I was filing a non payer claim and offering the card to someone else so he negged me. Of course I knew who I was dealing with and had forewarned ebay that Kirk was going to do this and literally within 1 minute of his negging me, ebay removed the negative.
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Are you sure he wasn't using ebay as a price fixer and selling larger quantities than he was buying at these high prices? For example, he is selling 100 diecuts and wants to charge $30 each. If he wins 10 on ebay at $30 each for the purpose of establishing a higher market price so he can sell his 100, he makes out quite well on this private deals. Running you up to near your max bid and not winning it after winning the others suggests there was a motive. Maybe he was just purely spiteful if he felt you had run him up on an auction. I know him to be a spiteful person as he tried to give me negative feedback on ebay when he took over 2 weeks to pay for a $25 item. I told him I was filing a non payer claim and offering the card to someone else so he negged me. Of course I knew who I was dealing with and had forewarned ebay that Kirk was going to do this and literally within 1 minute of his negging me, ebay removed the negative.
kirk is GADAWG right?? he's a pretty aggressive bidder...lost out a couple to him as well...why so spiteful?? Is he the guy on the SPITE Can??? :P :P :P
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Your issue is that you define the hobby based on value. that is a shame. Her buying and selling habits have very little influcence on "the hobby". Do find the art and gags and less desirable because of Leslie's erratic buying and selling habits? if so, that is a shame.
I do not base the hobby on value. But what i do value is my collection. And i dont like it when 1 person is responsible for the fluctuation in the value of my collection. I am a collector first and formost, i have never sold anything, i try to make sure i buy the best i can afford. Which isnt the best most of the time.
If anyone is looking for a few examples from me about my rant...
first off, yes she is well within her rights to do what she is doing. That doesnt mean shes not going to piss people off.
She buys 2-3-400 boxes...Great for her! Most people cant buy 2-3 or 4 boxes.
And she still finds she has to bid on every odd sketch that comes down the pike. Making it next to impossible to outbid her for something you like.
Inflating prices...When something is worth $25 and someone pays 40 for it, thats an inflated price. ex. if i want a sketch thats worth 25 but if only 1 person is willing to bid 39 i have to go 40 to get it. An inflated price. But you say if 2 people bid on it its worth is 40. Wrong! Because to resell the sketch it would only bring 25....ITS WORTH. 1 person CAN inflate prices! And she doesnt care about money at all, so much in fact she doesnt care if she makes her own collection worth less. Very selfish in my opinion.
What about Brad you say? Well lets see, i dont have a problem with what brad does. He goes about his business collecting, and not steamrolling a hobby. (and by hobby i mean sketch card collecting, there are hobbys within hobbys) Brad shares his hobby with the rest of us. I love it when he posts new pictures of the cases he bought. We who cant buy cases get to see a peak at the good life. With Sportzfreak i think she feels like a queen eating steak and throwing the bones and grizzle to the subjects. Gluttony is a sin.
And because of her erratic buying and selling habits my Halloween sketches i bought for 100-150 can now be had for 40-60...THANKS FREAK!
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I do not base the hobby on value. But what i do value is my collection. And i dont like it when 1 person is responsible for the fluctuation in the value of my collection. I am a collector first and formost, i have never sold anything, i try to make sure i buy the best i can afford. Which isnt the best most of the time.
.........
Inflating prices...When something is worth $25 and someone pays 40 for it, thats an inflated price. ex. if i want a sketch thats worth 25 but if only 1 person is willing to bid 39 i have to go 40 to get it. An inflated price. But you say if 2 people bid on it its worth is 40. Wrong! Because to resell the sketch it would only bring 25....ITS WORTH. 1 person CAN inflate prices! And she doesnt care about money at all, so much in fact she doesnt care if she makes her own collection worth less. Very selfish in my opinion.
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And because of her erratic buying and selling habits my Halloween sketches i bought for 100-150 can now be had for 40-60...
Very few collectors don't enjoy seeing their collectibles selling for more than what they paid. Even so, its important to keep in mind these ARE NOT commodities, they have little intrinsic value. If someone, somewhere, doesn't just want to own it, then any value ascribed to it is a fantasy. If people only want to own collectible pieces because they think other people will eventually want to buy them.... Well, that's a pyramid scheme.
Every collectible is future potential "swill". This applies to everything.
We can assume that Saunders originals will always be "worth" lots of money... And maybe that's true, but people and cultures change. In 100 years, it could be that very few people will care about Wacky Packages, and the originals will sell for less than they do now.
They were trash into treasures, but they could all be trash again.
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And because of her erratic buying and selling habits my Halloween sketches i bought for 100-150 can now be had for 40-60...THANKS FREAK!
Is it just your Halloween Sketches that are now selling for just 40 to 60, or everyones Halloweens of the same titles? And if that is true, it's all because of one seller and not just because of the initial "newness" has worn off with collectors and that they are no longer seeking those cards because they've already obtained them?
I know what's next - it's all because she sold her's for so cheap right? Not so, like I said before, anyone could bid on these items and ultimately they'll usually sell for around what the going price is for that item. Occasionally someone will get lucky and get it for lower, but the opposite is also true - the seller gets lucky and it goes for higher than it's average price. Because she starts her bidding low, doesn't mean that they actually are sold at that price.
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In 100 years, it could be that very few people will care about Wacky Packages, and the originals will sell for less than they do now.
They were trash into treasures, but they could all be trash again.
Or it could be the opposite too. You never know. But I do positively agree that collecting should be just for the purpose that you like to do it, not for future resale (although that is always a nice thing if it pans out that way providing that you'd want to sell)
The market (like all markets pretty much) fluctuate with Wacky's. You see that every time a new series comes out, and what is deemed as the "hot" items go for more than they would a year or 2 later. That's just how it goes and at least THAT is somewhat predictable if that is what some folks concerns are.
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I think ya just gotta enjoy your hobby, but if too much of your enjoyment is dependent on other folks, tough situations are definitely going to arise.
In discussions like this, I like to bring up two things I've always returned to, that for me, put my collecting into perspective. First is a quote from Mark Twain, and it always makes me laugh at myself:
"No one puts bric-a-brac to any very practical purpose. There’s some human instinct which makes a man treasure what he is not to make any use of, because everybody does not possess it. From an interview, “Mark Twain in London,” London Chronicle, 3 June 1899, p.3. (Found this over at twainquoats.com.)
I LOVE pieces I have that no one else does... It's pretty funny.
The other is this article on dying collecting categories. It's interesting how they start by noting several
categories which used to have thriving groups of collectors, but over the decades, things changed. They mention " Avon bottles, collector edition bells, figurines, plates, scale model vehicles and lusterware"... That was the kind of stuff people spent money to collect... But not anymore. It could happen to our hobbies, too. Eventually. But for now it's still fun!
http://www.worthpoint.com/blog-entry/ten-signposts-identify-endangered-collecting-categories
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I do not base the hobby on value. But what i do value is my collection. And i dont like it when 1 person is responsible for the fluctuation in the value of my collection. I am a collector first and formost, i have never sold anything, i try to make sure i buy the best i can afford. Which isnt the best most of the time.
If anyone is looking for a few examples from me about my rant...
first off, yes she is well within her rights to do what she is doing. That doesnt mean shes not going to piss people off.
She buys 2-3-400 boxes...Great for her! Most people cant buy 2-3 or 4 boxes.
And she still finds she has to bid on every odd sketch that comes down the pike. Making it next to impossible to outbid her for something you like.
Inflating prices...When something is worth $25 and someone pays 40 for it, thats an inflated price. ex. if i want a sketch thats worth 25 but if only 1 person is willing to bid 39 i have to go 40 to get it. An inflated price. But you say if 2 people bid on it its worth is 40. Wrong! Because to resell the sketch it would only bring 25....ITS WORTH. 1 person CAN inflate prices! And she doesnt care about money at all, so much in fact she doesnt care if she makes her own collection worth less. Very selfish in my opinion.
What about Brad you say? Well lets see, i dont have a problem with what brad does. He goes about his business collecting, and not steamrolling a hobby. (and by hobby i mean sketch card collecting, there are hobbys within hobbys) Brad shares his hobby with the rest of us. I love it when he posts new pictures of the cases he bought. We who cant buy cases get to see a peak at the good life. With Sportzfreak i think she feels like a queen eating steak and throwing the bones and grizzle to the subjects. Gluttony is a sin.
And because of her erratic buying and selling habits my Halloween sketches i bought for 100-150 can now be had for 40-60...THANKS FREAK!
Wow! There is a lot here. I'm only going to touch on a few thing.
1. The value of a card is what people are willing to pay for it. If you think a card is only worth $25 but everyone keeps bidding it up to $40 then it must be worth $40 and not $25.
2. I'm not sure about what Halloween sketches you are referring to. You have to keep in mind the sketch. The Z skeches are selling cheap and those are the only ones showing up so if you paid $150 then I'm sorry for you. If a tough one showed up. It would go much higher but no one is parting with them other than the easier ones. No others have shown up. People talk about newness but if you don't get what you want initially you may never get it. That is the same for OLDS2, if you don't get the sketch you want now you may never get it. The easy ones show up all the time but not the tough ones. So you decide, you can stand back waiting for the sketches you would like but if you can't pull the trigger on price then you will get the obvious scraps. The ones you want may not show up again. You also have to understand the risk involved with buying boxes, you may not get crap. It's so easy to say that prices are over inflated when you have no risk. I may buy a case and have one sweet pull but I risked buying a case and got a nice one but you maybe only offer $100 for it. To me that's an insult.
I want people to understand there's risk in buying a case at a time. It's easy for someone not taking that risk asking for a sweet deal on you best sketch pull from a case. if you want to take the risk then do it and hope for high buyer prices to help you pay for that case. Not too many will take that challenge but when they see a sketch they have to have but can't realize they can't get it for $50 it's all of a sudden overinflated. it just bugs me when you say a sale is overinflated when you don't understand how tough some of these sketches are to find. I just got in 2 cases today and only pulled one Kirscht as an example. To me that was a tough pull, to the outsider looking in it was a pull from a box. Little do they know I just paid $2700 for those 2 cases and have to deal with over half of them being the easy to get Lynches. No disrespect to Jay but all of his are the same and because of this the prices are really down to around $10 each.
I think that is enough rational on this subject. I have given you plenty of examples. It's easy on the other side not buying boxes and only going after choice sketches. You can be selective but us buying cases have no choice, we only hope to get great sketches otherwise we lost a lot of money. Buying sketches is the east part because there is no risk.
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One last thing. If you think Leslie is over inflating the market go and buy your own boxes and keep everything. It's only $50 a box so go get them. Put your own destiny in your own hands don't worry about other collectors. It's as easy as that. Buy boxes and quit bitching. So you buy 6 boxes and get 5 common and one Kaboo engstom as an example, well you just spent $300 + shipping and didn't get what you want. So all of a sudden paying $150 for a sketch you really wanted over inflates the price?
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It's so easy to say that prices are over inflated when you have no risk. I may buy a case and have one sweet pull but I risked buying a case and got a nice one but you maybe only offer $100 for it. To me that's an insult.
I want people to understand there's risk in buying a case at a time. It's easy for someone not taking that risk asking for a sweet deal on you best sketch pull from a case.
This is why I don't like to make "offers". How am I supposed to know what a seller needs to get to balance their books? All I can do is say what I'd be willing to pay, and chances are, I'll insult someone, entirely unintentionally.
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This is why I don't like to make "offers". How am I supposed to know what a seller needs to get to balance their books? All I can do is say what I'd be willing to pay, and chances are, I'll insult someone, entirely unintentionally.
I meant something overly obvious like a tough artist Ghoul or monster. I post all of my sketches when I get the boxes in. Not all are available as I'm also building my own collection but I get offers like would you sell the Gross Ghoul for $100. I'm like 'are you serious?'. Or all I get in a case is 2 nice camera's and I'll get an offer for $150 for both when I just sold them both for $200 each. Anyone can make offers but most know the market and what artists and what characters are the most sought after. If you offered me $50 for an Engstrom that is not an insulting offer because he did so many. Same with offering $10 for a Lynch except the Ghoul because that is what the market is at.
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This is why I don't like to make "offers". How am I supposed to know what a seller needs to get to balance their books? All I can do is say what I'd be willing to pay, and chances are, I'll insult someone, entirely unintentionally.
My feelings exactly. I hesitate making offers on sketches because I have no idea what they're worth. I understand sellers needing to get top dollar by "taking offers", but it would make things a lot easier if they would just post some asking prices.
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I think that is enough rational on this subject. I have given you plenty of examples. It's easy on the other side not buying boxes and only going after choice sketches. You can be selective but us buying cases have no choice, we only hope to get great sketches otherwise we lost a lot of money. Buying sketches is the east part because there is no risk.
I almost take it that you look at Old School boxes as something akin to scratch tickets, which seems weird to me.
I'm reminded of a visit to a baseball card shop in the early 90's, two young kids, maybe 12-years-old, buying packs of cards, and opening them right there in the store. They would immediately sell "valuable" pulls back to the owner right there. It was weird to me then and seemed the furthest thing from the hobby I had enjoyed for so long. They were gamblers and little business men more than they were collectors, at least what I had always considered collectors.
You buy a case and you've SPENT a great deal of money, sure. But to frame that as "losing money" if you don't pull "great sketches"... If that's really your assesment, then you've started to transform the experience to something akin to scratch-off tickets, or sort of what those kids were doing in that card store back in 1991, haven't you?
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I almost take it that you look at Old School boxes as something akin to scratch tickets, which seems weird to me.
I'm reminded of a visit to a baseball card shop in the early 90's, two young kids, maybe 12-years-old, buying packs of cards, and opening them right there in the store. They would immediately sell "valuable" pulls back to the owner right there. It was weird to me then and seemed the furthest thing from the hobby I had enjoyed for so long. They were gamblers and little business men more than they were collectors, at least what I had always considered collectors.
You buy a case and you've SPENT a great deal of money, sure. But to frame that as "losing money" if you don't pull "great sketches"... If that's really your assesment, then you've started to transform the experience to something akin to scratch-off tickets, or sort of what those kids were doing in that card store back in 1991, haven't you?
No, he hasn't really, because he's doing it to build his sketch collection, not trying to sell everything nice on ebay to make money. Honestly, the limiting case of what Brad and Leslie are doing would be that they just buy all the boxes, split up the sketches they want (or can afford to keep), and dump everything else to recoup costs.
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No, he hasn't really, because he's doing it to build his sketch collection, not trying to sell everything nice on ebay to make money. Honestly, the limiting case of what Brad and Leslie are doing would be that they just buy all the boxes, split up the sketches they want (or can afford to keep), and dump everything else to recoup costs.
If Brad had a fortune to burn I'd agree with your assessment. But spending so much money on sketch cards, of all things, for a working Joe with a wife and kids, looks more to me like an addiction requiring therapy. I can't help but wonder if his kids will get to go to college.
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If Brad had a fortune to burn I'd agree with your assessment. But spending so much money on sketch cards, of all things, for a working Joe with a wife and kids, looks more to me like an addiction requiring therapy. I can't help but wonder if his kids will get to go to college.
I guess everyone has something that really motivates them. I certainly don't get the whole sketch card thing. The fun of collecting vintage items is never knowing where to look or when something you really want will turn up. It's also fun finding
old stuff in really nice shape. Whatever it is that fuels my fire as a collector, sketch cards don't stoke it.
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If Brad had a fortune to burn I'd agree with your assessment. But spending so much money on sketch cards, of all things, for a working Joe with a wife and kids, looks more to me like an addiction requiring therapy. I can't help but wonder if his kids will get to go to college.
You guys really have no clue as to what I'm doing. I'm having a blast with the sketches and building up a very nice collection. Marc and Leslie's will probably be a much nicer collection but it's not a competition. All everyone can do is assume. I've also given away a bunch of stuff at no cost. I've helped out many collectors getting great deals on sketches. I enjoy the whole hobby. All everyone thinks is that I'm spending a lot of money. Your right, Topps is probably making a nice profit. No one knows how much I've sold and traded either. I have a spreadsheet of what I buy and sell.
Since everyone is speculating I will tell you that I have spent $26K and I have sold $26K worth of sketches. I am down $55 at this point. I now have over 130 keeper sketches and it cost me $55. There you have it, no more speculation. I'm just about done buying boxes as I only vision needing a couple more to have a perfect sketch collection (in my eyes). I have nothing to hide and I have no problem telling anyone any of this.
I did lose about $2000 on ANS7 though and that won't happen again with ANS8.
Now while were at it why doesn't everyone share their financial statements.
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Now while were at it why doesn't everyone share their financial statements.
I think you're very canny to have pulled that off. Especially cool if you have a blast doing it. If I could do something similar with vintage items I enjoy I'd be all over it.
As for financial statements, what exactly would you like to know?
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As for financial statements, what exactly would you like to know?
It was a joke regarding my spending and selling. What people don't know is I have given away a bunch of OLDS2 unopened packs, boxes, concept cards, & 5X7's for free. I am having a blast and I know it will end soon.
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You and Greg Grant need to do lunch
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I almost take it that you look at Old School boxes as something akin to scratch tickets, which seems weird to me.
You analogy of scratch tickets holds no water. This is no different than you buying a box of ANS7 hoping for a gold or sketch. Sometimes you get lucky and sometimes you don't. That's all there is to it.
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You and Greg Grant need to do lunch
Just speaking for myself - I think that Greg and I are totally different. He is a business man selling stuff on his site. I'm a collector that doesn't have pages of for sale items. Me selling is no different than trading. I sell what I don't want to accumulate the stuff I do. Nothing different.
Why did you sell me some postcard sets unopened. You are no different than Greg. You bought to make a profit off them. You didn't sell them to me for what you paid so how are you any different?
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You analogy of scratch tickets holds no water. This is no different than you buying a box of ANS7 hoping for a gold or sketch. Sometimes you get lucky and sometimes you don't. That's all there is to it.
So what would you say the odds are for pulling old school sketch card keepers,good bad or somewhere in between?
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You analogy of scratch tickets holds no water. This is no different than you buying a box of ANS7 hoping for a gold or sketch. Sometimes you get lucky and sometimes you don't. That's all there is to it.
So what would you say the odds are for pulling old school sketch card keepers,good bad or somewhere in between?
You generally get about 2 keeper sketches per case. I was lucky with my last case and got about 15.
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quote author=BumChex link=topic=1263.msg30603#msg30603 date=1307228157
I posted the postcard listing for $145.00 for 1 reason and 1 reason only,I was 110% positive their was 1 person that would pay it!!
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quote author=BumChex link=topic=1263.msg30603#msg30603 date=1307228157
I posted the postcard listing for $145.00 for 1 reason and 1 reason only,I was 110% positive their was 1 person that would pay it!!
So it's OK for you to sell something for a profit but no one else? :argue:
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You guys really have no clue as to what I'm doing. I'm having a blast with the sketches and building up a very nice collection. Marc and Leslie's will probably be a much nicer collection but it's not a competition. All everyone can do is assume. I've also given away a bunch of stuff at no cost. I've helped out many collectors getting great deals on sketches. I enjoy the whole hobby. All everyone thinks is that I'm spending a lot of money. Your right, Topps is probably making a nice profit. No one knows how much I've sold and traded either. I have a spreadsheet of what I buy and sell.
Since everyone is speculating I will tell you that I have spent $26K and I have sold $26K worth of sketches. I am down $55 at this point. I now have over 130 keeper sketches and it cost me $55. There you have it, no more speculation. I'm just about done buying boxes as I only vision needing a couple more to have a perfect sketch collection (in my eyes). I have nothing to hide and I have no problem telling anyone any of this.
I did lose about $2000 on ANS7 though and that won't happen again with ANS8.
Now while were at it why doesn't everyone share their financial statements.
Most of us know you're a family man and not a bachelor without any duty to wife or kids. You're posting all the time about how much you spend on boxes, sketches and paintings so you're making this stuff public. That leaves you open to criticism or at least some concern about your family and obsession. Marc doesn't post details of his spending habits and we know Leslie has money to burn. So anyway, it sounds like everything is fine in Bradland. Congrats on making back the bulk of your investment. That was quite a feat!
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Most of us know you're a family man and not a bachelor without any duty to wife or kids. You're posting all the time about how much you spend on boxes, sketches and paintings so you're making this stuff public. That leaves you open to criticism or at least some concern about your family and obsession. Marc doesn't post details of his spending habits and we know Leslie has money to burn. So anyway, it sounds like everything is fine in Bradland. Congrats on making back the bulk of your investment. That was quite a feat!
Yup, everything is just fine. Thanks for the concern!
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quote author=BumChex link=topic=1263.msg30607#msg30607 date=1307228553
I have no problem with anyone making a profit,large profit,a modest profit or a reasonable profit.I am not saying your a dumbass for paying $145.00 for the postcard set,for all I know you got a colored sketch card.You and Leslie are adults and can spend your money anyway you please and I could care less how you spend your money.
PS.......your posts seem to take on a defensive tone,or maybe it is just me.
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You guys really have no clue as to what I'm doing. I'm having a blast with the sketches and building up a very nice collection. Marc and Leslie's will probably be a much nicer collection but it's not a competition. All everyone can do is assume. I've also given away a bunch of stuff at no cost. I've helped out many collectors getting great deals on sketches. I enjoy the whole hobby. All everyone thinks is that I'm spending a lot of money. Your right, Topps is probably making a nice profit. No one knows how much I've sold and traded either. I have a spreadsheet of what I buy and sell.
Since everyone is speculating I will tell you that I have spent $26K and I have sold $26K worth of sketches. I am down $55 at this point. I now have over 130 keeper sketches and it cost me $55. There you have it, no more speculation. I'm just about done buying boxes as I only vision needing a couple more to have a perfect sketch collection (in my eyes). I have nothing to hide and I have no problem telling anyone any of this.
I did lose about $2000 on ANS7 though and that won't happen again with ANS8.
Now while were at it why doesn't everyone share their financial statements.
You shouldn't have to explain or answer to anyone on this forum about your collecting habits or how much money you are spending on them. How you spend your money is 100% your business and no one else's. The biggest mistake people make is assuming your interests and collecting habits will be just like theirs, and if they don't match they don't understand it.
As examples Dave collects unopened packs which I think are cool but from a collecting standpoint I have no interest in them. Mark collects art which I also think is kind of cool and unique, but I have zero interest in collecting it. Do I sit here and wonder why they collect things I don't have much interest in? Hell no. I respect what they collect and I don't expect them to have the same interests as me. That would be silly.
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You shouldn't have to explain or answer to anyone on this forum about your collecting habits or how much money you are spending on them. How you spend your money is 100% your business and no one else's. The biggest mistake people make is assuming your interests and collecting habits will be just like theirs, and if they don't match they don't understand it.
As examples Dave collects unopened packs which I think are cool but from a collecting standpoint I have no interest in them. Mark collects art which I also think is kind of cool and unique, but I have zero interest in collecting it. Do I sit here and wonder why they collect things I don't have much interest in? Hell no. I respect what they collect and I don't expect them to have the same interests as me. That would be silly.
I agree, Brad doesn't owe anyone an explanation. However, seeing the numbers is astounding. Having 130 keeper sketches for only $55 is mind blowing. I hope at least one of those is a color sketch! :) I wish I had the $ to attempt something like that on a smaller scale, but for me it would be a gamble and Murphy's Law would dictate I pull nothing but commons and not be able to break even. Heck I'm glad if I'm able to pull an uncommon out of my 5 boxes. I didn't bother buying more than that this series because of my bad luck with OldS1 boxes. I'd rather focus on the stickers anyhow...
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You shouldn't have to explain or answer to anyone on this forum about your collecting habits or how much money you are spending on them. How you spend your money is 100% your business and no one else's. The biggest mistake people make is assuming your interests and collecting habits will be just like theirs, and if they don't match they don't understand it.
As examples Dave collects unopened packs which I think are cool but from a collecting standpoint I have no interest in them. Mark collects art which I also think is kind of cool and unique, but I have zero interest in collecting it. Do I sit here and wonder why they collect things I don't have much interest in? Hell no. I respect what they collect and I don't expect them to have the same interests as me. That would be silly.
I don't care how anyone spends their money but when they're so open about it and they have a wife and kids I take notice. Suppose someone here started spending all their money (and their spare time) on Wacky Packs, or booze, or whatever, to the detriment of their family. Would you sit back and "respect" that?
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I don't care how anyone spends their money but when they're so open about it and they have a wife and kids I take notice. Suppose someone here started spending all their money (and their spare time) on Wacky Packs, or booze, or whatever, to the detriment of their family. Would you sit back and "respect" that?
But how would you possibly know what's going on with his family life or his finances? We don't even have close to all of the facts to judge his situation. My gut would tell me that what he is doing is not at the expense of his family, but the way I look at it it's really not my business. If I had a friend who was gambling and drinking too much, and spiraling out of control, yes, I would be concerned for my friend's situation. What were talking about here is collecting Wackys as a hobby, and I trust that Brad knows what he is doing when it comes to spending his money.
Just in case.........Brad, if you are uncontrollably addicted to sketch cards we are all here to help. We could have a Wacky intervention!
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But how would you possibly know what's going on with his family life or his finances? We don't even have close to all of the facts to judge his situation. My gut would tell me that what he is doing is not at the expense of his family, but the way I look at it it's really not my business. If I had a friend who was gambling and drinking too much, and spiraling out of control, yes, I would be concerned for my friend's situation. What were talking about here is collecting Wackys as a hobby, and I trust that Brad knows what he is doing when it comes to spending his money.
Just in case.........Brad, if you are uncontrollably addicted to sketch cards we are all here to help. We could have a Wacky intervention!
All I saw week after week was a guy telling us all how many thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars he was spending. 26 thousand dollars in 3 months is just Wacky collecting!? In what world? If he can report to us how much he's spending all the time then I can comment on it. I didn't question him. I didn't demand any answers. You're standing up to me like I did. Are YOU so well versed in Brad's family life and finances that you can be so quick to defend him?
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You analogy of scratch tickets holds no water. This is no different than you buying a box of ANS7 hoping for a gold or sketch. Sometimes you get lucky and sometimes you don't. That's all there is to it.
Brad,
The reason I raised the comparison, was the surprising way you described the experience of buying a case that ends up containing no great sketches as having "lost a lot of money". Specifically:
"You can be selective but us buying cases have no choice, we only hope to get great sketches otherwise we lost a lot of money. "
That's the quote that, to me, sounded like someone's experience of buying scratch tickets. It wasn't an analogy so much as a comparison of experience. But if I'm over thinking it, that's fine. Whatever the case may be, ahem, it sounds you haven't lost a lot of money at all. I've never bought a box of anything where I would describe it as having "lost money". Spent money, yes, but not lost.
In the end, if you can make your hobby pay for itself, thats great. A number of members have done so in the past, and it's always interesting to hear how they did. I recall Plan9 building an impressive gold flashback collection, but his sales of the other stickers from cases paid for his investment, or most of it. If I'm remembering this wrong, please correct me. I think it's a great feat to pull off.
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Are YOU so well versed in Brad's family life and finances that you can be so quick to defend him?
Again, I explained how I feel about this already. I don't think it's any of my business how Brad spends his money, and I don't think we have a right to judge him without all of the facts. No, I don't have a clue as to Brad's family life and finances, which is why I won't judge him.
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You guys are making too much out of this. Yes I was on the defensive because I was getting a feeling that you guys think I am hoarding, stacking boxes to the ceiling, spending wild amounts of money and so forth. Yes, there is wild amounts of money but I wanted to let you know that it's not all out of my pocket. I just recycle my paypal money to buy more.
My main point is I don't want you guys to think I'm just doing this to be a business man and sell everything I buy. I'm actually trying to tell all of you that you can build a very nice collection without spending too much money and anyone can do it if they take the chance.
Most of us on this forum are collectors and it's tough to sell anything. With what I do I have to make some hard choices on what to sell and sometimes I really don't want to get rid of a sketch but everything has it's price. I have sold some really nice sketches that I would love to have for my collection but it's hard to pass up $300-$400 for a sketch.
I'm done discussing this. My family and me are fine. I just want people not to think I'm an ass hole dealing with so many sketches.
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Brad,
The reason I raised the comparison, was the surprising way you described the experience of buying a case that ends up containing no great sketches as having "lost a lot of money". Specifically:
"You can be selective but us buying cases have no choice, we only hope to get great sketches otherwise we lost a lot of money. "
That's the quote that, to me, sounded like someone's experience of buying scratch tickets. It wasn't an analogy so much as a comparison of experience. But if I'm over thinking it, that's fine. Whatever the case may be, ahem, it sounds you haven't lost a lot of money at all. I've never bought a box of anything where I would describe it as having "lost money". Spent money, yes, but not lost.
In the end, if you can make your hobby pay for itself, thats great. A number of members have done so in the past, and it's always interesting to hear how they did. I recall Plan9 building an impressive gold flashback collection, but his sales of the other stickers from cases paid for his investment, or most of it. If I'm remembering this wrong, please correct me. I think it's a great feat to pull off.
Without Brad I would have had a hard time completing my Jay Lynch Sketch card collection. Thanks again Brad
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You analogy of scratch tickets holds no water. This is no different than you buying a box of ANS7 hoping for a gold or sketch. Sometimes you get lucky and sometimes you don't. That's all there is to it.
"Sometimes you get lucky and sometimes you don't."
Folks who buy scratch tickets might, just might, describe their experience exactly like this.
That's all there is to it.
I don't have a problem with moderate gambling, it's just interesting to see the language of gambling applied to this series. "losing money" on boxes, and "getting lucky".. I found that surprising and worth commenting on.
I spent $300 on Old School... But did I actually LOSE money on that? How can I tell?
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"Sometimes you get lucky and sometimes you don't."
Folks who buy scratch tickets might, just might, describe their experience exactly like this.
That's all there is to it.
I don't have a problem with moderate gambling, it's just interesting to see the language of gambling applied to this series. "losing money" on boxes, and "getting lucky".. I found that surprising and worth commenting on.
I spent $300 on Old School... But did I actually LOSE money on that? How can I tell?
I totally agree with you that this is scratch ticket lottery and Brad's description are a lottery system dead on. He referenced specific artists and titles without describing any details of the quality of the sketches and declared those as desirable.....this of course is true mainly because of the "scarcity" of those combos he cited and the "scarcity" is exactly the same as "odds" of having a winning scratch ticket. The fully part is that there is NOTHING WRONG with this being a lottery like system. Everyone piling on here makes it seem bad in some manner and hence Brad is getting defensive. It is nobody's business what he is doing as long as he is not hurting anyone. Seems pretty clear he is not. All of this nonsense about concern for his wife and kid's is a rationaliztion for people being nosy.
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All of this nonsense about concern for his wife and kid's is a rationaliztion for people being nosy.
You're right. Whatever. Do you really care either?
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The fully part is that there is NOTHING WRONG with this being a lottery like system.
Agreed. Nothing wrong with it.
It was odd to me, and it still is, describing a case purchase as a "loss of money" due to it containing, or not containing, "great sketches".
I think the incredibly high prices commanded by color sketches out of the Old School boxes, was not anticipated or planned, and could not have been part of the design of the series. Looking back, it seems that the model was to simply include something extra special in each box, and adding to the fun were a few color sketches. Maybe it WAS part of the design, and I'm wrong, but I can't fathom anyone anticipating $1,000-out-of-the box sketches being possible. When the sketches started hitting those prices on the secondary market, straight-out-of-the-packs, and with boxes still available for retail price - it DID become a lottery.
This happened with hologram inserts all the way back in the very early 1990's, and against expectation, it made its' way into a series called Old School. What hopefully will NOT happen is that the influence of folks buying 50+ boxes will alter the direction of the series, or how it is structured. If those select "mega-buyers" become the target market, I don't believe that's a good thing for the long-term health of the series.
I'd like to believe that this series does not NEED to contain any inserts that are selling for $1,000 straight-out-of-packs, in order to be healthy, and to continue.
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You're right. Whatever. Do you really care either?
No, he does't or sould you
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No, he does't or sould you
Man why are you chiming in? I was done with this conversation yesterday. Ernie is just stoking a dying fire. Do whatever you want to whomever you want. I do not care. And what's with your spelling? Were you drunk when you made this post?
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Man why are you chiming in? I was done with this conversation yesterday. Ernie is just stoking a dying fire. Do whatever you want to whomever you want. I do not care. And what's with your spelling? Were you drunk when you made this post?
If you can post about it, someone else can comment about it. You've said so yourself - or is that wrong, now?
A better guess about the spelling is that he was on his iPad when he made the post. So, strictly-speaking, it was his typing that was off, not his spelling. Speaking from personal experience, I've found that an iPad easily allows for a bit of multitasking, and its' on-screen keyboard allows for a bit of missing letters. Combine the two, and you have drunken-looking posts. If you're going to phone in your typing a bit, I think we can agree that a Wacky Packages forum is probably one of the safer place to do it. Internet spelling criticism has a noble history, though, and I wouldn't want it to end.
It's fun to criticize the accuracy of another person's criticism of accuracy.
Oh, and don't bother responding. I'm done with this conversation. SOLD!
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If you can post about it, someone else can comment about it. You've said so yourself - or is that wrong, now?
A better guess about the spelling is that he was on his iPad when he made the post. So, strictly-speaking, it was his typing that was off, not his spelling. Speaking from personal experience, I've found that an iPad easily allows for a bit of multitasking, and its' on-screen keyboard allows for a bit of missing letters. Combine the two, and you have drunken-looking posts. If you're going to phone in your typing a bit, I think we can agree that a Wacky Packages forum is probably a safe place to do it.
It's fun to criticize the accuracy of another person's criticism of accuracy.
Oh, and don't bother responding. I'm done with this conversation. SOLD!
Well if this the case,when is Ron Zombie coming back? I need my Ron TV
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Man why are you chiming in? I was done with this conversation yesterday. Ernie is just stoking a dying fire. Do whatever you want to whomever you want. I do not care. And what's with your spelling? Were you drunk when you made this post?
Sorry about the spelling. I just grabbed my iPad before heading to bed. I'm done with this also.
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quote author=BumChex link=topic=1263.msg30649#msg30649 date=1307373636
So now what are you going to do,OLDS 3 may not be out for 10 monthes?
You will be going through wacky packages withdrawal,may take some time to pass
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quote author=BumChex link=topic=1263.msg30649#msg30649 date=1307373636
So now what are you going to do,OLDS 3 may not be out for 10 monthes?
You will be going through wacky packages withdrawal,may take some time to pass
I know, I can't wait!
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Man why are you chiming in? I was done with this conversation yesterday. Ernie is just stoking a dying fire. Do whatever you want to whomever you want. I do not care. And what's with your spelling? Were you drunk when you made this post?
Speaking of drunk....how did you determine this was a dying fire when there were like 25 posts on this topic along on Saturday :-)
Please be clear, Brad invited everyone to comment on his buying habits due to his deciding to post the details. I just think it was nosy to start querying about his family impact.
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I just think it was nosy to start querying about his family impact.
You're right again. Nobody should care about anybody. Especially when they're well acquainted. Live and let suffer. Why should we care about anybody's children? And if anyone queries that a guy might have a problem that may affect his family we should shut that person down asap. Apparently that's the policy around here. Except I never queried about it. That's the mistake you and Rob both made. All I did was allude to it by joking about his kids college fund like Rob did about putting Brad's picture on the series 3 box. This topic is more interesting to some folks than any other so great! Let's keep it going!
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If you can post about it, someone else can comment about it. You've said so yourself - or is that wrong, now?
A better guess about the spelling is that he was on his iPad when he made the post. So, strictly-speaking, it was his typing that was off, not his spelling. Speaking from personal experience, I've found that an iPad easily allows for a bit of multitasking, and its' on-screen keyboard allows for a bit of missing letters. Combine the two, and you have drunken-looking posts. If you're going to phone in your typing a bit, I think we can agree that a Wacky Packages forum is probably one of the safer place to do it. Internet spelling criticism has a noble history, though, and I wouldn't want it to end.
It's fun to criticize the accuracy of another person's criticism of accuracy.
Oh, and don't bother responding. I'm done with this conversation. SOLD!
Wow, this was one of your shorter posts. Did you hire a good editor?
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Please be clear, Brad invited everyone to comment on his buying habits due to his deciding to post the details. I just think it was nosy to start querying about his family impact.
Assuming Brad’s kids aren’t sleeping in tents in his backyard because their bedrooms are crammed full of OS2 pallets, an intervention is probably not required. ;D
Hey Ernie, as a self-confessed wacky sketch addict, how many sketches do you own? I’ve never gotten the feeling you are into the sketches too much, and your tag line confuses me (an easy feat).
BTW, until now, I’ve never really taken notice of the 2 stars that appear under the bandage on the Band-Ache title and wonder what that is all about. The two stars seem a bit strange, out-of-place, and non-Wacky like. Maybe the stars add a bit of drama to the bandage being torn away . . .
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Assuming Brad’s kids aren’t sleeping in tents in his backyard because their bedrooms are crammed full of OS2 pallets, an intervention is probably not required. ;D
Hey Ernie, as a self-confessed wacky sketch addict, how many sketches do you own? I’ve never gotten the feeling you are into the sketches too much, and your tag line confuses me (an easy feat).
BTW, until now, I’ve never really taken notice of the 2 stars that appear under the bandage on the Band-Ache title and wonder what that is all about. The two stars seem a bit strange, out-of-place, and non-Wacky like. Maybe the stars add a bit of drama to the bandage being torn away . . .
I had sketch fever through all the post card sets and olds1 so i suspect you havent followed all that closely. I only recently cooled down on it.
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You're right again. Nobody should care about anybody. Especially when they're well acquainted. Live and let suffer. Why should we care about anybody's children? And if anyone queries that a guy might have a problem that may affect his family we should shut that person down asap. Apparently that's the policy around here. Except I never queried about it. That's the mistake you and Rob both made. All I did was allude to it by joking about his kids college fund like Rob did about putting Brad's picture on the series 3 box. This topic is more interesting to some folks than any other so great! Let's keep it going!
This misdirection game is fun...you of course are perfectly correct, everyone here is wrong and you are correct. There is a rule here to never inquire about a person's family even when they specifically call out an ailment they have. Great call out, you clearly paymuch more attention than anyone here! Yes, we are all well aquainted, so much so that many have never met in person.
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This misdirection game is fun...you of course are perfectly correct, everyone here is wrong and you are correct. There is a rule here to never inquire about a person's family even when they specifically call out an ailment they have. Great call out, you clearly paymuch more attention than anyone here! Yes, we are all well aquainted, so much so that many have never met in person.
I've met Brad's family. Have you?
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I've met Brad's family. Have you?
Much like jason called out, you should spend some time reading your own posts. You were so truly concerned about brad's family that you called him right up and didn't use the forum as the mechanism for that comunication....
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Much like jason called out, you should spend some time reading your own posts. You were so truly concerned about brad's family that you called him right up and didn't use the forum as the mechanism for that comunication....
I made a comment about Brad's spending and I've since over-explained myself ad nauseum. And what a big goddam waste of time that was. Now you're mincing my words into a fine paste. Have fun with that. Try it on your spaghetti. I'm through.
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I do not base the hobby on value. But what i do value is my collection. And i dont like it when 1 person is responsible for the fluctuation in the value of my collection. I am a collector first and formost, i have never sold anything, i try to make sure i buy the best i can afford. Which isnt the best most of the time.
And because of her erratic buying and selling habits my Halloween sketches i bought for 100-150 can now be had for 40-60...THANKS FREAK!
If you've never sold anything and claim to be a collector first, why worry about the monetary value? Shouldn't the enjoyment outweigh the money? Can you even put a price on the enjoyment? I know I an unable to do so.
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Wow, this was one of your shorter posts. Did you hire a good editor?
Wha? I was done with this conversation moments after I posted. Why are you stoking fires and rocking boats? No one else cares but you....
And you're still on the length of my posts? Quit obsessing about length.... We GET it, you have an issue with length.
Did I spell that all correctly?
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Har har har
Just giving it right back to you.
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Wha? I was done with this conversation moments after I posted. Why are you stoking fires and rocking boats? No one else cares but you....
And you're still on the length of my posts? Quit obsessing about length.... We GET it, you have an issue with length.
Did I spell that all correctly?
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Har har har
Just giving it right back to you.
it's not the size of the pencil, it's how you write your name :great:
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U guys all need some real help,,,LOL
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it's not the size of the pencil, it's how you write your name :great:
...and let's not forget the all important girth!
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Wha? I was done with this conversation moments after I posted. Why are you stoking fires and rocking boats? No one else cares but you....
And you're still on the length of my posts? Quit obsessing about length.... We GET it, you have an issue with length.
Did I spell that all correctly?
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Har har har
Just giving it right back to you.
I'm glad you have a sense of humor about it. I regret so many posts and yet I still go on making them.
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I regret so many posts and yet I still go on making them.
No doing without some ruing.
- Sigrid Undset
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No doing without some ruing.
- Sigrid Undset
:great:
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I'm glad you have a sense of humor about it. I regret so many posts and yet I still go on making them.
Don't we all...
My own record of posts I wish I could take back has spoken for itself. Saying something in person is one thing, but when you hit "post", the words are published. And there's little turning back, at that point.
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Don't we all...
My own record of posts I wish I could take back has spoken for itself. Saying something in person is one thing, but when you hit "post", the words are published. And there's little turning back, at that point.
We are Publicist of Our Own Mind. Sounds like a new horror flick, or comedy spoof of one.
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No one is paying inflated prices that I'm aware of. Your prospective of inflated prices is probably different than any one else's. Buying and selling is no different than trading. If your calling someone out you should just go ahead and say it and let them defend themselves. This has turned into a very bad conversation because how do you know what someone needs? How do you know what I need? I buy a bunch of stuff and to say I'm over paying is an insult to me. Why say someone is paying inflated prices when, do you know what is an inflated price? Do you have any examples? If you follow the sketches you would know they were all not created equal.
There are always inflated prices on ebay. If there are two 'gotta have it' buyers, then the price gets inclated. Years ago, I sold a nice Umbrella sticker on ebay for $33. Two guys went nuts. I listed another one right after that and it sold for something like $8. There was only one guy left that had to have it for that auction. I would say that the first guy definitely bought the sticker at an inflated price one week before it sold for over 300% less.
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There are always inflated prices on ebay. If there are two 'gotta have it' buyers, then the price gets inclated. Years ago, I sold a nice Umbrella sticker on ebay for $33. Two guys went nuts. I listed another one right after that and it sold for something like $8. There was only one guy left that had to have it for that auction. I would say that the first guy definitely bought the sticker at an inflated price one week before it sold for over 300% less.
Wouldn't it be fair to characterize the incredibly high prices currently commanded for original Saunders Wacky paintings, is due in large part to just two or three buyers battling each other for them? Remove those men from the equation, and folks might scoff at $20,000 for an original Wacky painting. But now, people have bought into those values, and are happy to pay.
Similarly, remove a few buyers from the post Old School 1 release, and would anyone pay $1,000+ for a colored sketch? My guess is, without those few battles, the answer is no.. but now the perception is in place, and people accept and expect those prices.
It's the "gotta have it" buyers that set the prices...at least when supply of wanted items is limited. It's hard to call that over-paying or inflated prices. It's simple supply and demand.
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I wanted to add one more thing (maybe just because my previous post wasn't long enough - har):
I recently paid hundreds of dollars for a 1980's Lik-M-Aid Fun Dip package.
Just a year or two ago, I would have thought it to be an insane price for such a thing - and have assumed this piece to be something I'd pay $30-$50 for. But due to myself and just one or two other guys, I've had to accept that prices like this can happen (at least in rare instances - fortunately I'm still getting most of my stuff for less than $30), and now I'm willing to pay that kind of coin for something special and possibly unique like this item.
Remove me, and just a couple other guys from the last couple of years, and I don't believe anyone is paying nearly as much... but when more and more people find out how much has been paid, and no other examples show up (this is the only known example in collector's hands, believe it or not) - people just accept that, "Yeah, that's worth a bunch of money."
And as crazy as the amount is that I paid for it, I have already been offered several times that, to give it up. It's just nuts. But that's the way it is with these things that you can't get more of. Like Saunders originals and maybe even some Old School sketches...
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3329/5766094684_896f701a0d_z.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/jasonliebigstuff/5766094684/)
Sunline Brands - Lik-m-aid Fun Dip - 3-flavor candy package - 1986 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/jasonliebigstuff/5766094684/) by JasonLiebig (http://www.flickr.com/people/jasonliebigstuff/), on Flickr
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And as crazy as the amount is that I paid for it, I have already been offered several times that, to give it up. It's just nuts. But that's the way it is with these things that you can't get more of. Like Saunders originals and maybe even some Old School sketches...
I think you have one of the coolest collections out there. It makes perfect sense to me that you would pay high for something like this. That said, I see no similarity to OLDS sketches. Vintage items are either out there, or not. Much of your stuff was treated like garbage literally, so it's as rare as anything. Jay Lynch and other wacky artists have been doing sketches for years, in many cases ones that are much more detailed and impressive. Those seem to elicit no great collector enthusiasm. Yet somehow, apparently only because they have the Topps stamp of approval, the current sketch cards are hot.
To call these sketches "one of a kind" -- though that's technically true -- and liken them to an original Saunders wacky painting -- seems a bit of a stretch.
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I think you have one of the coolest collections out there. It makes perfect sense to me that you would pay high for something like this. That said, I see no similarity to OLDS sketches. Vintage items are either out there, or not. Much of your stuff was treated like garbage literally, so it's as rare as anything. Jay Lynch and other wacky artists have been doing sketches for years, in many cases ones that are much more detailed and impressive. Those seem to elicit no great collector enthusiasm. Yet somehow, apparently only because they have the Topps stamp of approval, the current sketch cards are hot.
To call these sketches "one of a kind" -- though that's technically true -- and liken them to an original Saunders wacky painting -- seems a bit of a stretch.
You're right, and I didn't mean to draw such a strict comparison.
The discussion just got me thinking about what "inflated prices" really means, in the realm of collectibles, where ALL cash value is based purely on perception. I understand that we could stretch this out to almost anything, but I hope this point is clear. It's interesting how an inflated value can easily become expected. But it's all just a bunch of film flam, in the end.
I mean, at a point, what's a Mickey Mantle rookie card worth to someone who didn't grow up listening to him play?
I think my real point is that, we should try to enjoy these things now, in spite of what others say they are worth. Whether it's old candy, unopened packs, Saunders originals, or sketches with a Topps stamp of approval - their real value is in the joy we get by having them or hunting for them or pulling them from cases... In this way, a colored sketch truly can be "more valuable" than a Saunders original.
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I think you have one of the coolest collections out there. It makes perfect sense to me that you would pay high for something like this. That said, I see no similarity to OLDS sketches. Vintage items are either out there, or not. Much of your stuff was treated like garbage literally, so it's as rare as anything. Jay Lynch and other wacky artists have been doing sketches for years, in many cases ones that are much more detailed and impressive. Those seem to elicit no great collector enthusiasm. Yet somehow, apparently only because they have the Topps stamp of approval, the current sketch cards are hot.
To call these sketches "one of a kind" -- though that's technically true -- and liken them to an original Saunders wacky painting -- seems a bit of a stretch.
Most of the Wacky sketch cards just barely qualify as one-of-a-kind and in many cases do not. Especially the Lynch cards that are traced. The variations that occur when tracing are not enough to distinguish them as unique works. It would be like saying everything ever made in China is one-of-a-kind just because a factory worker repeatedly painted various details by hand. Making something by hand is not a qualifier of something being one-of-a-kind. Uniqueness is the qualifier.
A thought about values. We're all used to going into a store and finding things at MSRP. Manufacturer's suggested retail price. So many of us have grown to believe in the idea that all things have a set value. But outside of the corporate controlled retail world nothing has a set value. There is only what you're willing to pay and what the current demand is. "Inflated price" is not a true term outside the retail industry.
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I wanted to add one more thing (maybe just because my previous post wasn't long enough - har):
I recently paid hundreds of dollars for a 1980's Lik-M-Aid Fun Dip package.
Just a year or two ago, I would have thought it to be an insane price for such a thing - and have assumed this piece to be something I'd pay $30-$50 for. But due to myself and just one or two other guys, I've had to accept that prices like this can happen (at least in rare instances - fortunately I'm still getting most of my stuff for less than $30), and now I'm willing to pay that kind of coin for something special and possibly unique like this item.
Remove me, and just a couple other guys from the last couple of years, and I don't believe anyone is paying nearly as much... but when more and more people find out how much has been paid, and no other examples show up (this is the only known example in collector's hands, believe it or not) - people just accept that, "Yeah, that's worth a bunch of money."
And as crazy as the amount is that I paid for it, I have already been offered several times that, to give it up. It's just nuts. But that's the way it is with these things that you can't get more of. Like Saunders originals and maybe even some Old School sketches...
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3329/5766094684_896f701a0d_z.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/jasonliebigstuff/5766094684/)
Sunline Brands - Lik-m-aid Fun Dip - 3-flavor candy package - 1986 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/jasonliebigstuff/5766094684/) by JasonLiebig (http://www.flickr.com/people/jasonliebigstuff/), on Flickr
This is awesome! One question though, what protection do you have from this package being reproduced? Doritos is using the old bags again. I think the retro craze is kicking in again and I expect to see lots of old packaging being reused.
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Most of the Wacky sketch cards just barely qualify as one-of-a-kind and in many cases do not. Especially the Lynch cards that are traced. The variations that occur when tracing are not enough to distinguish them as unique works. It would be like saying everything ever made in China is one-of-a-kind just because a factory worker repeatedly painted various details by hand. Making something by hand is not a qualifier of something being one-of-a-kind. Uniqueness is the qualifier.
Is Jay tracing?
A larger point is, "one-of-a-kind" has no intrinsic value as a quality... Yet we often give it extra value, but even then, not always. Same as we do something being done by hand, as opposed to something printed by machine. Sometimes uniqueness doesn't create the kind of value we are discussing. What creates that is this; someone else wanting what you have. THAT is often the value we look to.
I feel like I should make this Twain quote my sig, but it's appropriate to re-paste again, when discussing REAL one-of-a-kind as opposed to a lesser version.
"No one puts bric-a-brac to any very practical purpose. There’s some human instinct which makes a man treasure what he is not to make any use of, because everybody does not possess it. From an interview, “Mark Twain in London,” London Chronicle, 3 June 1899, p.3. (Found this over at twainquoats.com.)"
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I think you have one of the coolest collections out there. It makes perfect sense to me that you would pay high for something like this. That said, I see no similarity to OLDS sketches. Vintage items are either out there, or not. Much of your stuff was treated like garbage literally, so it's as rare as anything. Jay Lynch and other wacky artists have been doing sketches for years, in many cases ones that are much more detailed and impressive. Those seem to elicit no great collector enthusiasm. Yet somehow, apparently only because they have the Topps stamp of approval, the current sketch cards are hot.
To call these sketches "one of a kind" -- though that's technically true -- and liken them to an original Saunders wacky painting -- seems a bit of a stretch.
I collect buried treasure stickes(ice cream sticks from the 1960s and 1970s that featured various characters) and recently fell upon the mail away train and full booklet that I never knew existed until recently. There are only two known to exist in collections, mine and one other. I found it on ebay for $65(low supply, low demand, low price). Ironically, the seller had sold a pile of wackys to someone who met him on the NJ Turnpike years before(probably greg).Anyway, I would have probably paid several hundred $ to get this train but luckily didn't have to.
Same with the uncut sheet of mad ad foldees. I sniped the ebay auction for like $900 and won it for $150. Haven't seen one of these uncut sheets hit ebay since then(like 3 years ago). There are some things we are just willing to pay high and sometimes we have to, sometimes we don't. Always be ready!
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This is awesome! One question though, what protection do you have from this package being reproduced? Doritos is using the old bags again. I think the retro craze is kicking in again and I expect to see lots of old packaging being reused.
Why would I need protection from a retro reproduced package? Whatever the case, I have no protection... I think it'd neat if they did a retro package like this.
Doritos did one near version of an early 80's package... But so far that's it. And it's far from an exacting reproduction... But I liked it a lot.
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I wanted to add one more thing (maybe just because my previous post wasn't long enough - har):
I recently paid hundreds of dollars for a 1980's Lik-M-Aid Fun Dip package.
Just a year or two ago, I would have thought it to be an insane price for such a thing - and have assumed this piece to be something I'd pay $30-$50 for. But due to myself and just one or two other guys, I've had to accept that prices like this can happen (at least in rare instances - fortunately I'm still getting most of my stuff for less than $30), and now I'm willing to pay that kind of coin for something special and possibly unique like this item.
Remove me, and just a couple other guys from the last couple of years, and I don't believe anyone is paying nearly as much... but when more and more people find out how much has been paid, and no other examples show up (this is the only known example in collector's hands, believe it or not) - people just accept that, "Yeah, that's worth a bunch of money."
And as crazy as the amount is that I paid for it, I have already been offered several times that, to give it up. It's just nuts. But that's the way it is with these things that you can't get more of. Like Saunders originals and maybe even some Old School sketches...
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3329/5766094684_896f701a0d_z.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/jasonliebigstuff/5766094684/)
Sunline Brands - Lik-m-aid Fun Dip - 3-flavor candy package - 1986 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/jasonliebigstuff/5766094684/) by JasonLiebig (http://www.flickr.com/people/jasonliebigstuff/), on Flickr
That's fantastic Jason!! I remember that product well, my sister and I loved it. Looks like a great candidate for Old School 3!
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Jason that Lik-m-aid Fun Dip pack rocks!!! Thx for posting. Wonder why that was never spoofed back in the day. I agree with Pat, that needs to be in OldS!!
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I collect buried treasure stickes(ice cream sticks from the 1960s and 1970s that featured various characters) and recently fell upon the mail away train and full booklet that I never knew existed until recently.
I think I remember those. Would love to see some pics.
I also remember the colored plastic sticks which were "slotted" so you could put them together and build stuff with.
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That's fantastic Jason!! I remember that product well, my sister and I loved it. Looks like a great candidate for Old School 3!
Thanks, guys.
Though it is a candy classic, I don't know that this qualifies for the right era for Old School. This package style was probably introduced around 1978 or 1979, though I'm really not certain - I have two mini-packs dated 1982, and I recall having this when I was younger, but it might have been released as early as 1977 or as late as 1980. I've dug up pretty much zero documentation on this era of Fun Dip, so I can't say for sure.
Do any of you guys have specific memories and years from when this was on store shelves?
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Thanks, guys.
Though it is a candy classic, I don't know that this qualifies for the right era for Old School. This package style was probably introduced around 1978 or 1979, though I'm really not certain - I have two mini-packs dated 1982, and I recall having this when I was younger, but it might have been released as early as 1977 or as late as 1980. I've dug up pretty much zero documentation on this era of Fun Dip, so I can't say for sure.
Do any of you guys have specific memories and years from when this was on store shelves?
I used to buy those all the time,seem to recall your right about later 70's.
Very cool,would not thought to collect those,but they really are an important part of candy history!
I think considering it was rebranded as Fun Dip from the much earlier Lik-M-Aid product it could very well be a good product for OLDS.The 16th series and beyond would have broght it up to those late 70's dates anyway.
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Thanks, guys.
Though it is a candy classic, I don't know that this qualifies for the right era for Old School. This package style was probably introduced around 1978 or 1979, though I'm really not certain - I have two mini-packs dated 1982, and I recall having this when I was younger, but it might have been released as early as 1977 or as late as 1980. I've dug up pretty much zero documentation on this era of Fun Dip, so I can't say for sure.
Do any of you guys have specific memories and years from when this was on store shelves?
Jason, you must run into some interesting challenges in cleaning some of these items for
long term storage and collection. I had some Fleer Crazy TV Dinners that still had the candy in them.
Even though the candy containers had never been opened, ants where able to get in and strip the candy
coating off of whatever was inside each piece. How do you go about prepping something like the Fun Dip?
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Jason, you must run into some interesting challenges in cleaning some of these items for
long term storage and collection. I had some Fleer Crazy TV Dinners that still had the candy in them.
Even though the candy containers had never been opened, ants where able to get in and strip the candy
coating off of whatever was inside each piece. How do you go about prepping something like the Fun Dip?
Critters are ALWAYS a concern when working with the kind of things I collect - they love decades old food, and sometimes even the cardboard. My rule is almost always to empty the item of the food/candy contents, to avoid infestation, or damage from the decomposition of the contents themselves. It's simply better for the item, long-term - but there are many examples of packages that lose something magical about them, when they've been emptied.
"Double-Dipped" Nerds candies are some of the worst to leave full, and will, if left in a box, often destroy that box entirely. Something about the double-dipped coating liquifies and saturates the cardboard of the box - it's awful. Regular Nerds, though... appear largely inert.
With this Fun Dip, which still holds its' original contents, there is a bit of sugar/dye staining already evident. Due to the currently-unique nature of this piece, I'm torn about whether or not I want to empty it. I'm hoping that the contents have decomposed to their final state, and won't be damaging the package anymore. Currently, I'm leaving the contents intact, and in the package, but I plan to rescan it in six months or a year, and see whether or not any further spotting has occurred. If it has, I'll empty the thing.
I've saved a couple of sealed things. I have a Post Sugar Crisp cereal box from 1959.. sealed with the cereal. I might end up emptying it some day, but for now, I've got it triple wrapped and sealed up in collector bags. I also have an awesome 1970's Brach's salesman assortment that, without the candy contents, is largely a bunch of fairly bland wrappers:
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3321/3486966262_ac046e22f7_m.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/jasonliebigstuff/3486966262/)
Brach's Candy Salesman Sample box - 1970's (http://www.flickr.com/photos/jasonliebigstuff/3486966262/) by JasonLiebig (http://www.flickr.com/people/jasonliebigstuff/), on Flickr
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I used to buy those all the time,seem to recall your right about later 70's.
Very cool,would not thought to collect those,but they really are an important part of candy history!
I think considering it was rebranded as Fun Dip from the much earlier Lik-M-Aid product it could very well be a good product for OLDS.The 16th series and beyond would have broght it up to those late 70's dates anyway.
Well, if it falls within Dave's range for inclusion, I agree that it could be a great Old School parody target. I wish I could know for sure, when this package design and product were introduced..
Hold on, I just checked the old Trademarkia site, and though it doesn't have a listing for Fun Dip, it does for Lik-A-Stix, which were created for the Fun Dip package.
http://www.trademarkia.com/likastix-73129597.html
That lists the filing date as June 1977, and the actual registration date as November 1978.. so I think it's safe to assume that this package design was on shelves by 1978, but possibly as early as 1977.
And since you brought up Lik-M-Aid, here's a 1963 trade ad I have for that.. this stuff goes WAY back, and is still around today, in Fun Dip form:
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4124/5159898642_5d1a770e0c.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/jasonliebigstuff/5159898642/)
Sunline - Lik-m-Aid - trade ad - Candy Wholesaler magazine - May 1963 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/jasonliebigstuff/5159898642/) by JasonLiebig (http://www.flickr.com/people/jasonliebigstuff/), on Flickr
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Getting back on over inflated sketch prices. What would people consider over inflated?
I have opened around 500 boxes and know the tough ones.
Let say you see a sketch for $100 that you really like or maybe it's $175. How is that over inflated? At that price you would have to buy 2-4 boxes at $50 each just to see if you can pull it. Chances are you will fail.
People can't believe that a Zapata or Gross will sell for $400-$500 when I just opened 2 full cases (48 boxes total) and only pulled one Zapata and no Gross. Those 2 cases costs $2400 + shipping.
Non Lynch color are the same way. I've only pulled 3. If you don't think those are worth $500 - $1000 each go try and pull one and see how much money you spend doing it.
I guess that is the rational when someone PM's me or emails me and asks if I will take $50-$100 for a tougher artist card and I say no. It's not worth selling it that cheap. I'd rather keep it.
And Mark, don't worry about my family. I just used my profits from this series to buy the family a new furnace yesterday. :o
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What does the fact you are willing to pay $50.00 a box have to do with the OLDS sketch market,what would these boxes be going for with no sketch card.....$25.00?
It's a crapshoot with the odds being against you,JL did 3000 sketches and everyone else did 2000
PS..... I didn't know furnaces are going for $50 to $100 dollars nowadays
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People can't believe that a Zapata or Gross will sell for $400-$500 when I just opened 2 full cases (48 boxes total) and only pulled one Zapata and no Gross. Those 2 cases costs $2400 + shipping.
Non Lynch color are the same way. I've only pulled 3. If you don't think those are worth $500 - $1000 each go try and pull one and see how much money you spend doing it.
If someone wants those sketches, they should pay what it takes for them. However, just because a Zapata sketch may be harder to find certainly doesn't make it more desirable per se. Topps could have one artist do only one sketch as an ultra chase item. Would that make it worth 10K? Would anyone sensible even care?
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just because a Zapata sketch may be harder to find certainly doesn't make it more desirable per se.
No it doesn't. Only the sketch makes it desirable. Some will sell less and some more. A Zapata ghoul or Playskull will sell quite a bit higher than a blue beanie. That is why if someone has a Zapata or Gross ghoul don't expect to find someone dumping it for $200.
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What does the fact you are willing to pay $50.00 a box have to do with the OLDS sketch market,what would these boxes be going for with no sketch card.....$25.00?
It's a crapshoot with the odds being against you,JL did 3000 sketches and everyone else did 2000
PS..... I didn't know furnaces are going for $50 to $100 dollars nowadays
I'm just referring to over inflated prices. Yes the cost of a box does play into it. It is a crapshoot and I was willing to take the challenge. If I got stiffed in the first few boxes I would have been probably done but with all the really cool variations the artists came up with it's tough to not try and find the cool stuff.
Mark just ribs me because he hates sketches. He doesn't feel they should be that desirable. I know better and make it part of my collecting strategy.
By the way a new furnace costs $2500.
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No it doesn't. Only the sketch makes it desirable. Some will sell less and some more. A Zapata ghoul or Playskull will sell quite a bit higher than a blue beanie. That is why if someone has a Zapata or Gross ghoul don't expect to find someone dumping it for $200.
I wouldn't say only the sketch itself makes it desirable though. It's a combination of the sketch itself and the rarity.
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I wouldn't say only the sketch itself makes it desirable though. It's a combination of the sketch itself and the rarity.
Right, he was referring to Zapata though as an example so therefore it's more of a rarity.
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I'm just referring to over inflated prices. Yes the cost of a box does play into it. It is a crapshoot and I was willing to take the challenge. If I got stiffed in the first few boxes I would have been probably done but with all the really cool variations the artists came up with it's tough to not try and find the cool stuff.
Mark just ribs me because he hates sketches. He doesn't feel they should be that desirable. I know better and make it part of my collecting strategy.
By the way a new furnace costs $2500.
Last week you were in the hole with Old School 2 by $50. How did you get ahead by $2500 in one week?
I don't hate the sketches. I love them! I think everyone should pay top dollar for sketch cards while the market is down. They're a great investment and far superior to those shoddy paintings.
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Last week you were in the hole with Old School 2 by $50. How did you get ahead by $2500 in one week?
I don't hate the sketches. I love them! I think everyone should pay top dollar for sketch cards while the market is down. They're a great investment and far superior to those shoddy paintings.
I don't get the math either--- $2400 +shipping - and one Zapata - so how can he make his money back on that?? even selling the 47 sketches @ avg $ 20 - nets $800 + selling the zapata @ 1000 = 1800 - how do you account for the rest...no offense just curious...would love to employ your method..but i just don't see it...i think i can do better making a 'profit' from apple options...that's good about the furnace though :P
Yea those original paintings are CRAP!! need more Bhob sketches...yea that's the ticket...which is more RARE Zapata or Gross?? they actually sell higher than the color sketches??
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I don't get the math either--- $2400 +shipping - and one Zapata - so how can he make his money back on that?? even selling the 47 sketches @ avg $ 20 - nets $800 + selling the zapata @ 1000 = 1800 - how do you account for the rest...no offense just curious...would love to employ your method..but i just don't see it...i think i can do better making a 'profit' from apple options...that's good about the furnace though :P
Yea those original paintings are CRAP!! need more Bhob sketches...yea that's the ticket...which is more RARE Zapata or Gross?? they actually sell higher than the color sketches??
$20 a sketch? We need for you to buy boxes and we will buy from you! You also don't know how many boxes I have gone through since that last post. You guys assume way too much.
Zapata and Gross did less than any other artist. That is all I know. Also keep in mind that Lynch did about 6 of each color character while the other 2 artists only probably did one so you can imagine what a Bhob ot Griffith color sketch could go for, again, dependiing on the sketch.
So essentially Zapata and Gross sketches are more desirable than the color sketches.
People like to speculate but these are facts. Zapata and Gross each did a smaller amount of sketches than there are color sketches so they would be more valuable. If there were only 150 color sketches and Lynch did 100-120 of them you can see how the other artists colors are so rare.
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Topps could have one artist do only one sketch as an ultra chase item. Would that make it worth 10K? Would anyone sensible even care?
But of course this is what most chase cards are... And I don't know if I'd say that the folks that buy into it lack any sense (I DID just pay hundreds for an old package of candy, after all), but the "ultra-limited" nature of these things has been a cornerstone of the trading card market for over a decade.
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Similarly, remove a few buyers from the post Old School 1 release, and would anyone pay $1,000+ for a colored sketch? My guess is, without those few battles, the answer is no.. but now the perception is in place, and people accept and expect those prices.
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The problem is no other have shown up. Not many of the PC series cool sketches have shown up either. The only ones you see is the same rehash of what everyone has already.
My take is that you should probably be ready to buy or they may never show up again. Some people think they can wait until until all the prices drop but it hasnt happened yet except for the obvious sketeches. People think they can obtain the really cool sketches later on cheap but I have not seen any evidence of that.
Get them now at the over inflated prices :great:
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People think they can obtain the really cool sketches later on cheap but I have not seen any evidence of that.
I totally agree with that. The very best of the sketch cards will likely hold value and possibly increase in value because the cream rises. Look at the paintings. Many of them sell for mere hundreds. But the few best sell for thousands.
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I'm just referring to over inflated prices. Yes the cost of a box does play into it. It is a crapshoot and I was willing to take the challenge. If I got stiffed in the first few boxes I would have been probably done but with all the really cool variations the artists came up with it's tough to not try and find the cool stuff.
Mark just ribs me because he hates sketches. He doesn't feel they should be that desirable. I know better and make it part of my collecting strategy.
By the way a new furnace costs $2500.
The way I remember it,you got a whole bunch of JL the first 5 to 7 cases.Anyway you and a couple of other people are going to keep OLDS alive and well for a long time,keep on keeping on.
PS.......For future series they need to have the cojones to tell the artists involved with the sketches to do whatever they like and when their sketches are submitted,they will be notified if any of them were rejected.
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And I don't know if I'd say that the folks that buy into it lack any sense (I DID just pay hundreds for an old package of candy, after all)
Why do you compare apples and oranges? You could pay $1,000,000 for a candy wrapper and you would be paying a lot for an item you really wanted. Paying for an item simply because it's a manufactured rarity is not remotely similar. But haven't we been through all this in the flashback golds discussion?
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The problem is no other have shown up. Not many of the PC series cool sketches have shown up either. The only ones you see is the same rehash of what everyone has already.
My take is that you should probably be ready to buy or they may never show up again. Some people think they can wait until until all the prices drop but it hasnt happened yet except for the obvious sketeches. People think they can obtain the really cool sketches later on cheap but I have not seen any evidence of that.
Get them now at the over inflated prices :great:
I think it really depends on how and what you collect (as far as whether you should wait or buy early). If you're like me, who has specific parameters of what you are going to collect, like you said it can be risky waiting because you don't know if they will show again. If you are a little looser with your collecting strategy, and just want some cool sketches without caring too much about specific titles or artists, waiting is the way to go for sure.
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Why do you compare apples and oranges? You could pay $1,000,000 for a candy wrapper and you would be paying a lot for an item you really wanted. Paying for an item simply because it's a manufactured rarity is not remotely similar. But haven't we been through all this in the flashback golds discussion?
I am trying to get to something, and I fear I'm not doing it successfully. And you are right, we did go over this with the Gold Flashbacks.
My point is that, for some folks, manufactured rarity, or something that was once commonplace and is now scarce, are no different. They have equal appeal and worth. Not to you perhaps, and not to me, but to many collectors one is just as appealing, or even more so, as the other.
In the end, there is simply no intrinsic value to any of it, so it really is all up to what you enjoy. It's all perception. You and I think manufactured rarity has little value, but I often bring up my favorite Mark Twain quote, because he points out that true rarity is also a bit of flim flam itself - but we perceive it to have a special value. We're right, but only because we infuse the value onto the item. And if the IDEA of exclusivity and owning something that was intentionally produced in low numbers gives a collector, due to their interests and tastes, the same thrill that I get from something that was once in every Woolworth and 7-Eleven in the country, and is now non-existent, what's it matter? As long as no one is being hurt by it, at least.
To me, the most important quality for an item is the joy it brings to the individual collector. It's while I'll occasionally pass an item from my collection onto someone else, because I know it will have more value with them - they'll enjoy it more.
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I am trying to get to something, and I fear I'm not doing it successfully. And you are right, we did go over this with the Gold Flashbacks.
My point is that, for some folks, manufactured rarity, or something that was once commonplace and is now scarce, are no different. They have equal appeal and worth. Not to you perhaps, and not to me, but to many collectors one is just as appealing, or even more so, as the other.
In the end, there is simply no intrinsic value to any of it, so it really is all up to what you enjoy. It's all perception. You and I think manufactured rarity has little value, but I often bring up my favorite Mark Twain quote, because he points out that true rarity is also a bit of flim flam itself - but we perceive it to have a special value. We're right, but only because we infuse the value onto the item. And if the IDEA of exclusivity and owning something that was intentionally produced in low numbers gives a collector, due to their interests and tastes, the same thrill that I get from something that was once in every Woolworth and 7-Eleven in the country, and is now non-existent, what's it matter? As long as no one is being hurt by it, at least.
To me, the most important quality for an item is the joy it brings to the individual collector. It's while I'll occasionally pass an item from my collection onto someone else, because I know it will have more value with them - they'll enjoy it more.
You're right, ultimately, it doesn't matter. If one person enjoys acquiring the one-of-a-kind hypothetical sketch (presumably because it makes him feel powerful and important, or because it's a challenge to find, or whatever) it's fine. If someone wants to pursue an item simply because it is rare (the flashback golds), there's nothing wrong with that.
Your caveat that "it doesn't hurt anyone" isn't as simple as it seems, because as we've discussed, while none of these collecting behaviors directly hurt anyone, they can in theory have hurtful repercussions, but that is not the individual collector's fault.
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You're right, ultimately, it doesn't matter. If one person enjoys acquiring the one-of-a-kind hypothetical sketch (presumably because it makes him feel powerful and important, or because it's a challenge to find, or whatever) it's fine. If someone wants to pursue an item simply because it is rare (the flashback golds), there's nothing wrong with that.
Your caveat that "it doesn't hurt anyone" isn't as simple as it seems, because as we've discussed, while none of these collecting behaviors directly hurt anyone, they can in theory have hurtful repercussions, but that is not the individual collector's fault.
To be clear, I wrote "As long as no one is being hurt by it, at least. ", I didn't write "it doesn't hurt anyone".
I think collecting vintage stuff can create just as much unhealthy obsession, or spending, as chasing Limited Editions. The same exact pitfalls apply to both. Similarly, I've met a few collectors of scarce vintage items that appear to believe they are "powerful and important" because of their collections. Hell, I'd guess that that kind of jackassery is far more prevalent in the world of the truly vintage. People really get high on themselves, and it makes me roll my eyes, when I encounter it.
Do you and I think that chasing Flashback Golds and color sketches is a little foolish, when that money could be put to much cooler stuff? I expect that we do. But when I write that, I am keenly aware that I can walk down the street and find endless people who would find little difference between that pursuit and my own, and would consider the money I spend on old candy to be novel, but hardly the most practical or worthy of pursuits.
So, while I can't relate strongly to what the Gold Flashback collector enjoys about those stickers, I CAN relate to the joy they have in building the collection, and the passion they exhibit when hunting for the missing pieces in that puzzle. That's something we definitely have in common, and that's what I choose to try to focus on.
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Similarly, I've met a few collectors of scarce vintage items that appear to believe they are "powerful and important" because of their collections.
I’ve always been interested in this aspect of collecting, the ego boost and feeling of superiority that often occurs when obtaining something few people possess.
I’ve been chasing GPK FB2 lents recently and pulled a gold the other day. Even though I don’t really care about golds, I got a big rush that I pulled one and immediately went to eBay to check its value (about $23). I would have felt more superior and powerful if they were selling for $50, and I would have felt like God if golds were worth $100. How silly . . .
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I think I remember those. Would love to see some pics.
I also remember the colored plastic sticks which were "slotted" so you could put them together and build stuff with.
This is the website of the main authority on these. He has the other buried treasure train known to exist:
http://www.buriedtreasureicecreamsticks.com/
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If someone wants those sketches, they should pay what it takes for them. However, just because a Zapata sketch may be harder to find certainly doesn't make it more desirable per se. Topps could have one artist do only one sketch as an ultra chase item. Would that make it worth 10K? Would anyone sensible even care?
Dave makes a great point here. Consistantly people only examine the supply side without consideration for the demand side hence ignoring the simple rules of law of supply and DEMAND. A rare unattractive sketch is probably only desirable to a completist. Supply of 1 to demand of 1 doesn't equal hundreds of $ in "value".
If the only factor in defining value of sketches is their supply, then why not just create numbered cards with artist names on them. People can then go chase the more scarce numbers. This would be similar to the silliness around chasing gold bordered cards, not all that interesting to look at, purely a rarity chase.
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I totally agree with that. The very best of the sketch cards will likely hold value and possibly increase in value because the cream rises. Look at the paintings. Many of them sell for mere hundreds. But the few best sell for thousands.
Brad's definition of "best" is a bit messed up thought....he said "So essentially Zapata and Gross sketches are more desirable than the color sketches". He constantly equates "rare" and "desirable" and hence has drawn the conclusion that a rare average sketch is more desirable than the higher quality color sketches. That hardly sounds like someone analyzing the true cream rising to the top.
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You're right, ultimately, it doesn't matter. If one person enjoys acquiring the one-of-a-kind hypothetical sketch (presumably because it makes him feel powerful and important, or because it's a challenge to find, or whatever) it's fine. If someone wants to pursue an item simply because it is rare (the flashback golds), there's nothing wrong with that.
Your caveat that "it doesn't hurt anyone" isn't as simple as it seems, because as we've discussed, while none of these collecting behaviors directly hurt anyone, they can in theory have hurtful repercussions, but that is not the individual collector's fault.
Is it enjoyable to own a one of a kind or rare item if nobody cares? I am asking this hypothetically and not referring to any specific item. I think part of the thrill in owning rare items is for other collectors to care or hold such an item in high regard. I don't think collecting is at the point where it is so introverted that privately getting a joy of owning a rare item is all that fulfilling.
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Is it enjoyable to own a one of a kind or rare item if nobody cares? I am asking this hypothetically and not referring to any specific item. I think part of the thrill in owning rare items is for other collectors to care or hold such an item in high regard. I don't think collecting is at the point where it is so introverted that privately getting a joy of owning a rare item is all that fulfilling.
Well, is this the same thing that said earlier? That being that the gauge most of us look to for value is; do a bunch of other people want it?
I actually own a number of unique and rare items that I love, and I MIGHT be the only person that really cares...or in some cases maybe one of two other people.
It's an interesting point you bring up, that collecting is largely a shared experience. If that's true, than phenomena like sketch-chasing is integral to a hobby, or at the very least, important to it.
To me there are few things in my hobby as satisfying as sharing it. That's when it's at it's most fun, and I think that's right in line with what you are saying here.
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This is the website of the main authority on these. He has the other buried treasure train known to exist:
http://www.buriedtreasureicecreamsticks.com/
Wow, cool site, thanks! I guess I do not remember those after all...
Oh and here's a picture of the colored plastic sticks I mentioned. They're called Elsie Stix:
http://www.etsy.com/listing/28712372/vintage-borden-elsie-popscicle-sticks (http://www.etsy.com/listing/28712372/vintage-borden-elsie-popscicle-sticks)
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Is it enjoyable to own a one of a kind or rare item if nobody cares? I am asking this hypothetically and not referring to any specific item. I think part of the thrill in owning rare items is for other collectors to care or hold such an item in high regard. I don't think collecting is at the point where it is so introverted that privately getting a joy of owning a rare item is all that fulfilling.
Excellent point. I've often thought that the pursuits of many on this forum were fueled by "group enthusiasm". Conversely, I have to admit I would get a lot more enjoyment out of my own pursuits if there were more people who shared those interests.
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Is it enjoyable to own a one of a kind or rare item if nobody cares? I am asking this hypothetically and not referring to any specific item. I think part of the thrill in owning rare items is for other collectors to care or hold such an item in high regard. I don't think collecting is at the point where it is so introverted that privately getting a joy of owning a rare item is all that fulfilling.
I've thought to myself before...........what would my collection mean to me if I was the only one in the hobby, so I was the only one who cared about Wackys, and the truth is not much. It would still be kind of cool but without people in the hobby to share and discuss collections with the intrinsic value of them drops quite a bit.
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Wow, cool site, thanks! I guess I do not remember those after all...
Oh and here's a picture of the colored plastic sticks I mentioned. They're called Elsie Stix:
http://www.etsy.com/listing/28712372/vintage-borden-elsie-popscicle-sticks (http://www.etsy.com/listing/28712372/vintage-borden-elsie-popscicle-sticks)
Very cool, i dont remember these elsie stix at all though.
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Excellent point. I've often thought that the pursuits of many on this forum were fueled by "group enthusiasm". Conversely, I have to admit I would get a lot more enjoyment out of my own pursuits if there were more people who shared those interests.
That is a great phrase, " group enthusiasm". I think i will use it going forward. It is not to the point of stroking an ego or creating an environment where someone with a cool item should get a supiority complex. Ideal world would be for everyone to have a cool item so jointly the group spreads the enthusiasm. For this reason, i hate the concept of "better collection" analysis.
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Very cool, i dont remember these elsie stix at all though.
I do remember those, although I had completely forgotten about them until I just saw this! You could build things from them if you had a bunch of them. Or you could bend the plastic way back and flip it on your sister's cheek, but I wouldn't recommend that if your parents are near by!
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That is a great phrase, " group enthusiasm". I think i will use it going forward. It is not to the point of stroking an ego or creating an environment where someone with a cool item should get a supiority complex. Ideal world would be for everyone to have a cool item so jointly the group spreads the enthusiasm. For this reason, i hate the concept of "better collection" analysis.
This also is a softer look at what we've sometimes derided as buying into hype, or liking something just because other folks do. In a way, the communal side of collecting lends itself to finding appreciation and validation from others. It's not a necessity, but might be a perfectly healthy aspect of a hobby.
I know I've overlooked items, but after seeing them through fellow collector's eyes over time, I've found new appreciation for them. Left to myself, I'd never have done so.
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This also is a softer look at what we've sometimes derided as buying into hype, or liking something just because other folks do. In a way, the communal side of collecting lends itself to finding appreciation and validation from others. It's not a necessity, but might be a perfectly healthy aspect of a hobby.
I know I've overlooked items, but after seeing them through fellow collector's eyes over time, I've found new appreciation for them. Left to myself, I'd never have done so.
This happens to me all the time with comics. I get really excited about Harry Lucey Archie books, or DC War titles, stuff I don't remotely collect, just by seeing the enthusiasm of others.
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I do remember those, although I had completely forgotten about them until I just saw this! You could build things from them if you had a bunch of them. Or you could bend the plastic way back and flip it on your sister's cheek, but I wouldn't recommend that if your parents are near by!
Did you have any friends who collected Wacky Packs when you were a kid?
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Did you have any friends who collected Wacky Packs when you were a kid?
Sure, my best friend and I and were still friends.
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Did you have any friends who collected Wacky Packs when you were a kid?
Inam still regularly in touch with three guys i went to elementry school. They all collected wackys, none kept any, none are interested now.
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Inam still regularly in touch with three guys i went to elementry school. They all collected wackys, none kept any, none are interested now.
My friend gets excited when he flips through my book of originals, but he would never think of collecting them now. I sent him a box of Old School series 2 since they are so close to the originals.
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Inam still regularly in touch with three guys i went to elementry school. They all collected wackys, none kept any, none are interested now.
Interesting. What do they make of your ongoing interest? Having attended elementary school in another state, I've long been out of touch with my original Wacky friends.
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I only knew of one kid in elementary school who had a few Wacky Packages, but I was not “friends” with him. As an adult, I still do not know anyone who collects them. Only you guys online.
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I only knew of one kid in elementary school who had a few Wacky Packages, but I was not “friends” with him. As an adult, I still do not know anyone who collects them. Only you guys online.
We are Wacky ! :great:
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I know of no one that I come in contact with in my daily life that collects Wackys. Not a one.
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I have two friends from elementary school who knew of and collected Wackys from the original series. One of them got me started when he showed me the very first Wacky I ever saw: Cap'n Crud (it was his older brother's). I was HOOKED. I still crack up every time I see the skeleton-Quaker-Oats-guy.
I stuck all of mine on my bedroom door (some day I will find the photos I took of the door before it was refinished and post them). My other friend collected them in a small binder (he also collected baseball and basketball cards). I offered to buy his collection if he ever wanted to sell it, and he put together a list of them all. Was interesting to me that his collection was similar to the ones I had on my door (same series -- and same series we both missed out on the first time around: the 11th). Only rare/unusual one he had was a Spit n' Spill with the Spic n' Span logo on the top -- he thought it was cool when I told him it was rare.
I still keep in touch with both friends and sent them both a Wacky Care Package last year containing a bunch of newer series Wackys, the first edition book, etc. Both were really happy to get 'em and showed their kids "part of where their dads got their crazy sense of humor"! :great:
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This is the website of the main authority on these. He has the other buried treasure train known to exist:
http://www.buriedtreasureicecreamsticks.com/
Nice sticks, I mean that in a good way.
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Who doesn't remember the days of walking into Turkey Hill and seeing a box of WP's sitting on the counter next to the Twinkies or Tastycake coffee cakes.
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Who doesn't remember the days of walking into Turkey Hill and seeing a box of WP's sitting on the counter next to the Twinkies or Tastycake coffee cakes.
Dont remember any Wackys at the Turkey Hills. My first packs came from Al's Meat Market in Kingston. And Tastycakes are regional. I am only 2 hours away from NEPA and cant find a chocolate junior anywhere!!
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Actually, it was Louden Hill, which later became Turkey Hill, where I first bought mine. Our local store changed right around the '85 release.
Tastycake isn't as regional as it once was. Friends tell me they can get some out near Houston but back in the mid 80's we had to mail cases of them. You can always buy directly off the site.
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Bought all my Wackys back in the day at a Rexall Drugs, right next to a Food Bowl.
I remember when Ice Cube chocolates came out and seem to recall being torn between the two on more than one occasion.
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For me, 7-11 was the place for Wacky Packages. They also had every type of card and candy you could want and Superhero Slurpee Cups. It was about 2 miles from my house and on a road populated mostly by Trucks but worth the bicycle ride every time.
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For me, 7-11 was the place for Wacky Packages. They also had every type of card and candy you could want and Superhero Slurpee Cups. It was about 2 miles from my house and on a road populated mostly by Trucks but worth the bicycle ride every time.
Mine was the Ben Franklin five and dime store.
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Bought all my Wackys back in the day at a Rexall Drugs, right next to a Food Bowl.
I remember when Ice Cube chocolates came out and seem to recall being torn between the two on more than one occasion.
Ice cube chocolates rocked!! I bought all my wackys from a local mom and pop about a mile from my house on ludlow road!! Never got any ludlows there though, never heard of ludlows until i got back into the hobby.
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Mine was the Ben Franklin five and dime store.
Mines was a corner Mom & Pop store by the lake called "Reels". Use to grab my allowance and speed up the street on my bike hoping to see some "new" titles!
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Mine was Eckerd Drugs at a strip mall that I lived behind.
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Ice Cubes are/were a good "cheap" piece of chocolate. They don't taste nor feel as if they are loaded with paraffin (like some cheap drug store Easter candy) but taste surprisingly delightful. One thing is certain. I never choose an ice cube over a WP. Maybe a whatchamacallit though.